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shiftt
24-09-2017, 08:22
set the automatic clutch to off does not change anything in the cars with the h change gear is able to trigger the gear without the use of the clutch and the steering wheel blades remain "bug" only logitech g29 or all?

MartyrFarkyr
27-09-2017, 00:41
Seems to be all. I thought it was my wheel at first so i disconnected my wheel and played with a controller. No need to clutch there either even after mapping the clutch to square button and setting auto clutch off. This is drivng me nuts.

klysm
27-09-2017, 00:49
Can confirm.
Also an Option, that you have to use your shifter with H-Shift Cars is missing (like Assetto Corso does).

thatsmedan
27-09-2017, 05:43
I have problems when I try to change the gear quickly in H- shifter. It looks like the gear is not engaged correctly. I can't shift up quickly using the chutch and H-shifter and it is so annoying when you try to race in a competitive mood.

shiftt
27-09-2017, 15:07
Can confirm.
Also an Option, that you have to use your shifter with H-Shift Cars is missing (like Assetto Corso does).

bug project cars 2

shiftt
27-09-2017, 15:08
bug the project cars 2

Dinos
12-10-2017, 09:19
What is the matter with clutch, i can change gears without press it. They did not fix it with the patch???

Dirtryder
12-10-2017, 09:26
I concur, manual clutch does not work.

Dinos
12-10-2017, 09:28
It is working but you can change the gears without push it.

Maciej619
12-10-2017, 10:20
I don't know, but for me it seems that they changed some cars to have sequential. Ie Ginetta Junior - it has sequential in its description, and you can use it as such. BMW e30 on the other hand is H-pattern, and when you are not using the clutch the gear still changes, but with a delay - Using clutch is faster.

Dinos
12-10-2017, 10:34
I don't know, but for me it seems that they changed some cars to have sequential. Ie Ginetta Junior - it has sequential in its description, and you can use it as such. BMW e30 on the other hand is H-pattern, and when you are not using the clutch the gear still changes, but with a delay - Using clutch is faster.
Thats right, In pc1 if you did not push the clutch you could not change the gear, In pc2 you can change the gear without push the clutch a litle bit slower

Dinos
12-10-2017, 15:45
Thats right, In pc1 if you did not push the clutch you could not change the gear, In pc2 you can change the gear without push the clutch a litle bit slower
Please someone answer me is it a bug? Or it is normal?. If it is a bug will it fix to the next patch? I insist because i like driving with a manual Oldman school gearbox.

Aldo Zampatti
12-10-2017, 16:05
There are cars that can be changed without clutch due to the type of gearbox being simulated (i.e.: Ford Capri). Other shouldn't (i.e.: BMW 1M street car). Can you please try both and confirm?

Also, for this test, use "Authentic" driver assists, please.

Dirtryder
12-10-2017, 20:48
Clutch is broken. Makes no difference if clutch is set to auto or manual. In auto, depressing the clutch pedal still works like normal. In manual gears can be changed up and down with the clutch activating without depressing clutch pedal.

jaynnc
13-10-2017, 00:01
Man, they really need to fix this...It definitely must be a bug....Its makes a big difference for me cause thats the realism...Nothing better than for a friend or my myself to blow the engine like in AC....THIS HAS TO BE FIXED...im going to check out different cars tonight to see if its car specific

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 00:37
Thats right, In pc1 if you did not push the clutch you could not change the gear, In pc2 you can change the gear without push the clutch

Wrong. The group A Merc 190 could shift without clutch.


In manual gears can be changed up and down with the clutch activating without depressing clutch pedal.

In game in Group C cars it changes gears without clutch BUT it's super slow and jerky if you don't rev match/blip/timing.

In real life it's perfectly possible.


Man, they really need to fix this...It definitely must be a bug....Its makes a big difference for me cause thats the realism...Nothing better than for a friend or my myself to blow the engine like in AC....THIS HAS TO BE FIXED...im going to check out different cars tonight to see if its car specific

Go play AC :rolleyes:

Or just use the clutch as intended.

I wonder if the downshift protection is conflicting with this somehow...

Dirtryder
13-10-2017, 03:09
Load of rubbish. I was driving a big yank truck, ute if you like or pickup. I seriously doubt you can change up and brown without a clutch in one of those. So, I repeat it makes no difference if the clutch is set to auto or manual, it behaves the same on both settings. Test it for yourself.

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 03:18
It's not Euro truck simulator is it :glee:
I used to drive a diesel ute for work. a little Nissan navara. Used to get lazy and not clutch it lol
Driven bigger trucks that you could shift without the clutch if your timing was impeccable.~ 8-ton. Slip it in/out when the revs matched.
Haven't tried the auto-clutch with H-shift cars since the patch. I'm sure the devs know about it. Still a few patches to come :)

Dirtryder
13-10-2017, 06:06
So you haven't tested it??

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 06:45
So you haven't tested it??

Like I said I've done the Group C and Ferrari 365 with auto-clutch on and off on patch 1. Clutch-off I could still shift with the paddle but it wouldn't go in gear til the revs match or drop to idle if I don't blip it...

Haven't tried it on patch 2. Only had a couple races in MP this morning in the M6 GTLM and Panoz.

pa_pinkelman
13-10-2017, 09:07
BMW e30 on the other hand is H-pattern, and when you are not using the clutch the gear still changes, but with a delay - Using clutch is faster.

Not true, the delay is intentional to model the gearbox of a real car. Go search the forum this is discussed a lot already.

I know direct cut gear boxes can be shifted without clutch but you have to at least match the revs otherwise shifting would be phisically (almost) impossible and the gearbox would sustain heavy damage. In PC2 this is not modelled afaik. I really think this is not working as intended and hope they are working on it.

Dirtryder
13-10-2017, 10:16
Ok i have done more testing and found- with automatic clutch turned off -all cars still change up and down with out depressing the clutch while holding the throttle flat. Some do bounce off the limiter for a second before engaging a higher gear, no problems shifting down. If I lift off the throttle while changing up gears, the gear change seems absolutely normal as if I had depressed the clutch. In other words the clutch is still auto engaging and is completely not needed. Depressing the clutch pedal does indeed engage the clutch but it's use is completely redundant.
Cars tested were BMW 1M coupe, Ford escort RS1600, Ford F-150 RTR, Megan RS275, Porsche 962C, and Ferrari 365.
Broken

Dinos
13-10-2017, 10:34
Ok i have done more testing and found- with automatic clutch turned off -all cars still change up and down with out depressing the clutch while holding the throttle flat. Some do bounce off the limiter for a second before engaging a higher gear, no problems shifting down. If I lift off the throttle while changing up gears, the gear change seems absolutely normal as if I had depressed the clutch. In other words the clutch is still auto engaging and is completely not needed. Depressing the clutch pedal does indeed engage the clutch but it's use is completely redundant.
Cars tested were BMW 1M coupe, Ford escort RS1600, Ford F-150 RTR, Megan RS275, Porsche 962C, and Ferrari 365.
Broken
I think thats the biggest bug for the game until now because We are talking for a simulator. With this problem the realism of driving has gone. I hope they will fix it soon.

LukeC
13-10-2017, 11:05
I think thats the biggest bug for the game until now because We are talking for a simulator

In recent times I have come to the conclusion that the term "simulator" is a very, very nebulous concept. And I think it's rather ironic that it's not possible to shift gears without engaging the clutch in such "simcade" titles as F1 2017 and GT sport.

Dinos
13-10-2017, 12:36
In recent times I have come to the conclusion that the term "simulator" is a very, very nebulous concept. And I think it's rather ironic that it's not possible to shift gears without engaging the clutch in such "simcade" titles as F1 2017 and GT sport.
I don't know about f1 but GT is not a simulator, it is a beautifull arcade...

Mrocz
13-10-2017, 14:22
There are a lot of different Clutch and shifting problems in H-pattern cars. Like Revs lag, auto clutch etc.
I hope SMS will look into it and fix it in next patch.

mooch299
13-10-2017, 18:13
I noticed that in some cars equipped with paddle shifters or a sequential lever, the car can still stall out (with automatic clutch set to off). The McLaren's seem to work right, I can stop the car without having to push the clutch in.

klysm
13-10-2017, 18:31
Can confirm:
M1 Coupe Assists Authentic, Autoclutch Off:
Shifts without Pushing the clutch down even with full throttle. Clutch is only needed to prevent the engine frome stalling when starting to drive or stopping.

Ford Capri: Shifts without clutch (as it should), but you have to lift the throttle to get the gear in.

Edit: Another thing i've noticed is, that sometimes the downshift won't work, when you brake and shift (with clutch) at the same time -- the revs are the same as in idle, but they should sync up with the speed of your gearbox (when clutch is released). My guess is, that this is somehow connected with the downshift protection feature.

At the moment, you can forget about using your H-Shifter. Only way right now to drive historic car is with autoclutch and flaps of the wheel.

Edit 2 after more testing: Ferrari GTO also lets you up and downshift without clutch (even at 200 km/h to frist gear XD) and the Audi Quattro is the opposite and quite a diva (see my last edit)

Edit 3: I think i've pinpointed the downshift bug from first edit: The fame has a little lag when changing the position of your gear. Ingame it is still on neutral, when you already completed your manual H-Shift, so when your are shifting fast, you are releasing the clutch to early (when the game thinks it's in neutral). You have to wait until the game and not your shifter decides, that the correct gear is selected till you can release your clutch.

My conclusion: H-Shift and Manual clutch is currently totally broken and needs some serious makeover.

superdry
14-10-2017, 08:43
Can confirm:
M1 Coupe Assists Authentic, Autoclutch Off:
Shifts without Pushing the clutch down even with full throttle. Clutch is only needed to prevent the engine frome stalling when starting to drive or stopping.

Ford Capri: Shifts without clutch (as it should), but you have to lift the throttle to get the gear in.

Edit: Another thing i've noticed is, that sometimes the downshift won't work, when you brake and shift (with clutch) at the same time -- the revs are the same as in idle, but they should sync up with the speed of your gearbox (when clutch is released). My guess is, that this is somehow connected with the downshift protection feature.

At the moment, you can forget about using your H-Shifter. Only way right now to drive historic car is with autoclutch and flaps of the wheel.

Edit 2 after more testing: Ferrari GTO also lets you up and downshift without clutch (even at 200 km/h to frist gear XD) and the Audi Quattro is the opposite and quite a diva (see my last edit)

Edit 3: I think i've pinpointed the downshift bug from first edit: The fame has a little lag when changing the position of your gear. Ingame it is still on neutral, when you already completed your manual H-Shift, so when your are shifting fast, you are releasing the clutch to early (when the game thinks it's in neutral). You have to wait until the game and not your shifter decides, that the correct gear is selected till you can release your clutch.

My conclusion: H-Shift and Manual clutch is currently totally broken and needs some serious makeover.

I completely agree with this. Using F40 LM around Imola, I was unable to get any downshift hooked up correctly.

Even with rev matching, it felt like I couldn't shift smoothly. The engine felt like it dies, and when the engine comes back it results in instability.

Is this being investigated as a bug? Will post video later.

Roger Prynne
14-10-2017, 11:34
Stay on topic please guys, there is a GT thread you know.

Dirtryder
14-10-2017, 12:13
Is this being Investigated?

Redslayer
14-10-2017, 14:41
Any vehicle with Synchronizers can shift without the clutch in real life.

That said, games should always shift even if you don't clutch, but should "grind" and shift slow, because unlike real life, your shifter still goes into position, so you unrealistically lose time.

The other option would be for the car to stay in neutral until you clutch, without having to move the shifter again.

hkraft300
15-10-2017, 07:21
Tried the Skyline Group A.
Auto-clutch on/off is working.
Without auto-clutch and not pressing the clutch pedal I can shift gears with the paddles. Does need a lift and a bit of a rev-match/timing.
These cars had racing dog-boxes that were designed to slam the shifts without a clutch.
Because race car.
Sequential racing boxes (paddle or stick) work the same way: just that it's tied in with the ecu to cut fuel/ignition between shifts.

Dirtryder
15-10-2017, 09:52
Give me a car that does "need" the clutch depressed with auto clutch off to shift gears. I have not found one yet. Again the clutch pedal is redundant. Again broken.
Someone else has already posted the game takes no input from the pedal or position of the shifter in the h gate and behaves as if it is set to auto, hence you cannot fast change like in pc1.
Please get someone that knows what they are talking about to check this out.

Dirtryder
15-10-2017, 09:57
Your example only adds evidence to my argument. You can shift without depressing the clutch pedal in auto clutch mode. This is what I am saying. It is no proof that it is working normally, quite the opposite.

jaynnc
15-10-2017, 16:52
Your example only adds evidence to my argument. You can shift without depressing the clutch pedal in auto clutch mode. This is what I am saying. It is no proof that it is working normally, quite the opposite.

Yeah, it's confirmed for me that the clutch is not working...tried multiple cars and was still able to switch gears without depressing the clutch....just to be even more sure, played AC and PC1 AND it works correctly...They really need to get it fixed....this may not bother some people but for me it's a necessity

MAARTEN
15-10-2017, 19:42
I have noticed a problem with changing gears and make it really engage. Often when i rev up and shift gear from let's say 2nd to 3rd i often end up reving the engine like i got it in neutral? If i ease of the throttle then the gear will engage. If i take it very easy with the shifting there is almost never any problem. But now we are talking granny-shifting
Same thing when downshifting.
I also can confirm that the autoclutch on or off has no effect other than you DON'T get the irritating neutral-mode when shifting with the auto clutch on. But in this mode the shifting is way slower and I think you loose time around the tracks compared to a functional manual clutch and autoclutch mode off.

Dirtryder
15-10-2017, 19:46
Thanks jaynnc.
What is the point of having a setting of auto clutch off if you do not need to depress the clutch pedal for the gear change. At best we have 2 settings. Auto clutch on and auto clutch off a bit, where some cars need a lift of the throttle for the gear change and some do not. Please admit this is broken and fix it.

Dirtryder
15-10-2017, 19:50
I have noticed a problem with changing gears and make it really engage. Often when i rev up and shift gear from let's say 2nd to 3rd i often end up reving the engine like i got it in neutral? If i ease of the throttle then the gear will engage. If i take it very easy with the shifting there is almost never any problem. But now we are talking granny-shifting
Same thing when downshifting.
I also can confirm that the autoclutch on or off has no effect other than you DON'T get the irritating neutral-mode when shifting with the auto clutch on. But in this mode the shifting is way slower and I think you loose time around the tracks compared to a functional manual clutch and autoclutch mode off.

Thank you Maarten. Finally someone that knows what they are talking about. Really appreciate you looking in to this. Felt like I have been bashing my head against a brick wall trying to get I dev or wmd member to take notice.
Cheers.

MAARTEN
15-10-2017, 19:59
Thanks you Maureen. Finally someone that knows what they are talking about. Really appreciate you looking in to this. Felt like I have been bashing my head against a brick wall trying to get I dev or wmd member to take notice.
Cheers.

And thank you! I thought I was the only one ;)

Dirtryder
15-10-2017, 20:55
There are cars that can be changed without clutch due to the type of gearbox being simulated (i.e.: Ford Capri). Other shouldn't (i.e.: BMW 1M street car). Can you please try both and confirm?

Also, for this test, use "Authentic" driver assists, please.

Can you please revisit this and investigate. I do not know about pc or Xbox but the issue is real and needing attention on ps4.
Thanks

hkraft300
15-10-2017, 23:02
This guy's Mini must be broken:


http://youtu.be/jLw0hAtOik4

This guy's physics is definitely broken :hopelessness:


http://youtu.be/n_1jO64tuQA

But never mind me.

You're all experts because asetto corsa :rolleyes:

64footdan
15-10-2017, 23:47
This guy's Mini must be broken:

This guy's physics is definitely broken :hopelessness:

But never mind me.

You're all experts because asetto corsa :rolleyes:

No one is disputing what's in the videos you posted. That's not the complaint. The complaint is you can shift to any gear at any RPM instantly in cars that don't have dog boxes, etc.

klysm
15-10-2017, 23:51
No one is disputing what's in the videos you posted. That's not the complaint. The complaint is you can shift to any gear at any RPM instantly in cars that don't have dog boxes, etc.

Plus the input lag of the shifter. Described in my previous post.

Dirtryder
16-10-2017, 03:10
We seem to know more than you, so if you are not part of the solution , you are part of the problem.

Dirtryder
16-10-2017, 03:15
This guy's Mini must be broken:


http://youtu.be/jLw0hAtOik4

This guy's physics is definitely broken :hopelessness:


http://youtu.be/n_1jO64tuQA

But never mind me.

You're all experts because asetto corsa :rolleyes:

This is neither helpful nor relevant. If you have nothing constructive to add, please keep your opinions to yourself. You probably don't even want to drive in manual mode but some of us do so we would rather have it working properly.

klysm
20-10-2017, 12:57
Any updates on this? Are the devs investigating?

maxx69
20-10-2017, 13:39
How very dare you ....it's "the real driving simulator"

:D


GTS that is :)

Nyreen
21-10-2017, 00:14
Yeah, is a fix coming soon ? I've heard people are working on it but come on, even in PC1 it worked !

I'm not a game programmer but I guess it's simpler than fixing a tyre model to enable the clutch so that when you pull another gear, it just stays in neutral until the clutch comes (in and) out.

hkraft300
21-10-2017, 01:28
We seem to know more than you, so if you are not part of the solution , you are part of the problem.


... You probably don't even want to drive in manual mode...

:applause:

MAARTEN
26-10-2017, 16:21
Iv'e noticed another thing about this issue. When I tried rolling start in the BMW E30 Group A, my start resulted in neutral reving in 2:nd gear even though I had the gear in 2:nd. Just as the counter reached 0 and the race was about to begin the gear was in 2:nd and rev was like 6000 rpm. I just had the throttle pressed to the max and the correct gear selected via my H-shifter.
To make the gear engage I had to release the throttle for a short moment and therefor I lost much time in the start. Come on SMS, I hope you can fix this in future update because the game is not really playable with a H-shifter and clutch as it is now.

sebotron
26-10-2017, 19:49
Here's my two cents: I'm not sure completely preventing shifting when you don't hit the clutch first would work well in-game. In a real standard manual gearbox, the gears just won't engage without the clutch unless you force it and damage the transmission, as someone stated in an earlier post. With a gaming shifter controller, there's no force feedback so no way to prevent the controller from changing gears so if you "forced" it, wouldn't it become desynchronized with the game?

For example, let's say I'm in first gear, don't hit the clutch and set my shifter controller to 2nd gear, the game would keep me from doing it and remain in first gear but my shifter would be on 2nd. What happens then? I have a feeling this is one of the reasons why they did it they way they did.

TorTorden
26-10-2017, 20:13
Here's my two cents: I'm not sure completely preventing shifting when you don't hit the clutch first would work well in-game. In a real standard manual gearbox, the gears just won't engage without the clutch unless you force it and damage the transmission, as someone stated in an earlier post. With a gaming shifter controller, there's no force feedback so no way to prevent the controller from changing gears so if you "forced" it, wouldn't it become desynchronized with the game?

For example, let's say I'm in first gear, don't hit the clutch and set my shifter controller to 2nd gear, the game would keep me from doing it and remain in first gear but my shifter would be on 2nd. What happens then? I have a feeling this is one of the reasons why they did it they way they did.

I don't even have an h-shifter or use manual clutch, but would like to soon.
But with an H-shifter there is always Neutral between each gear.
The game can easily not accept the new gear and remain in neutral when it's not rev matched.

But the clutch isn't broken I have tested it works just fine.
what sounds like it is broken is the setting for auto-clutch that doesn't disengage.

I must have rambles onto the ps4 forums.
I can check if this is the case on pc if anyone is interested to know.

MAARTEN
28-10-2017, 12:43
I can confirm that rev-matching is key for the clutch and gears to work in rolling start.
Did a test with the rolling start now where I had the correct gear selected (2nd) and only gave half gas and at green light I floored it and that actually worked.

So when out on track racing this means that if I want to use manual clutch I have to learn heel and toe :confused:
I can get that if you revmatch you won't lock up your wheels and won't loose traction in corners. But what I think is that I should be able to use enginebraking more than what is possible now.

Dirtryder
28-10-2017, 20:54
Here's my two cents: I'm not sure completely preventing shifting when you don't hit the clutch first would work well in-game. In a real standard manual gearbox, the gears just won't engage without the clutch unless you force it and damage the transmission, as someone stated in an earlier post. With a gaming shifter controller, there's no force feedback so no way to prevent the controller from changing gears so if you "forced" it, wouldn't it become desynchronized with the game?

For example, let's say I'm in first gear, don't hit the clutch and set my shifter controller to 2nd gear, the game would keep me from doing it and remain in first gear but my shifter would be on 2nd. What happens then? I have a feeling this is one of the reasons why they did it they way they did.

Pc2 has down shift protection, so by design the game will freely accept the manual shifter being down shifted to a lower gear but not shifting to that gear in game due to dsp. In other words they are not worried about the manual h shifter being in 3rd gear but the car still being in 4th in this instance, so why would it be an issue if you are forcing up gears.
My main beef is that when set to auto clutch off, not "a single car" in the game "must" have the clutch pedal depressed to change either up or down, so at best it's a sort of semiautomatic mode. Yes I am aware that "some" real world cars can do this, more easily going up the gears, but not all cars both up and down gears. What is the point of having a manual clutch mode if you don't need to use the clutch, may as well leave it in auto. Most cars behave exactly the same regardless of the clutch mode selected so what is the point of having an option.
The other issue is that when the clutch pedal is actually used the game does not take input from the clutch and gear stick position as to how fast the change in game occurs, rather changing at its own pace. Yes I can hear all the wingers about how unfair this is however, driving like this is extremely hard to do, so if the best gamers can learn how to do this effectively why shouldn't we be able to. After all, as I have been told offer on this thread, isn't this how it is in the real world.