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View Full Version : GPU fan going crazy on pcars 2. [Workaround inside - Fixed in Next Patch]



Joni Varis
24-09-2017, 19:09
MOD EDIT: Workaround on post #126 (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52431-GPU-fan-going-crazy-on-pcars-2&p=1396487&viewfull=1#post1396487)


So im having some seriously strange issue with this game and my GPU. Whenever i launch project cars 2 my GTX 980ti fans goes completely nuts, first getting to full blast (2800rpm) for few seconds and then pulses up & down constantly. There isnt any similar issue on any other game, on other games (including pcars 1) fans just settles to around 1200rpm and stays there constantly. So it somehow must be game related thing that triggers this to happen. Apart from this the very annoying issues game works just fine, GPU temperatures are actually like 20c lower than on other titles because of those high rpm pulsing fans.

Took youtube video to demonstrate the issue (probably needs to up the volume, youtube lowered the audio level) :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2NkRAqLePc




GPU is Palit GTX 980 Ti 6GB Jetstream with the latest nvidia 385.69 drivers.

Complete system details are :

Intel Core i7 7700K CPU
ASUS Z270F Strix Motherboard
Palit GTX 980Ti Jetstream 6GB
16GB 2666mhz kingston ram
250GB Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe SSD
3Tb Seagate HDD
EVGA 750W G3 PSU
Windows 10 64bit

Mad Al
24-09-2017, 20:07
Well that's a new one....

are you getting oddities with the lighting too ?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51450-GTX-1070-Flashing-LED-when-loading-game

Joni Varis
24-09-2017, 20:13
This card doesnt have any lights apart from the white leds on fans. But actually now that you said on my other system has MSI 970 card with customizable MSI logo/led & it flickers randomly with pcars2. While on other titles its fully lit all the time.

But ye, the fan issue with this 980ti is unbearable. When its pulsing like that constantly it sounds like jet is about to takeoff. Just to make sure the card aint going boom tested again pcars 1, BF1, Dirt rally, F1 2017 & all of those were just fine.

Ipg_VipeR
24-09-2017, 20:14
try going in to the card settings and placing a manual fan curve on it?

Joni Varis
24-09-2017, 20:20
Doesnt help, tried it allready. Even with manual curve or set constant speed something takes over the fan when launching this game. Its something on the game that disturbs/mess up the driver/vbios fan control curve.

Aldo Zampatti
24-09-2017, 20:51
Welcome back Joni. :)

I'm assuming you're running nVidia latest drivers. Right?

cornishbrooksy
24-09-2017, 20:54
Even if running latest drivers, maybe worth a reinstall of them.

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 02:12
Should of mentioned that did fresh driver instal allready.

Aldo Zampatti
25-09-2017, 02:15
I'll report this, Joni. Couldn't reproduce this myself :(

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 02:20
Ok, thx.

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 06:01
Here is the graphs from afterburner. As seen on pcars2 GPU goes to full mental mode. Fans is spinning so fast up/down that it doesnt even regisrate the fan speed percentage at all but shows 0%. While on pcars 1 it works just like in any other game & remain fairly stable 45-50%/1000-1200rpm fan speed during gaming.


pcars 2

240478

pcars 1

240479


And yes it behaves the same without any monitoring program open.

Sampo
25-09-2017, 08:08
What if you try a clean install of the earlier drivers that are not PC2 optimized?

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 08:38
Ye probably have to try that next.

Just deleted gfx confiq and now it behaves again differently. Now its still going up/down at menus, but on actual gameplay fanspeed is now locked 1400rpm. So strange.

E: nah, still going full bonkers after started it again.

Mad Al
25-09-2017, 09:12
Is the core clock really fluctuating that much ?

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 09:14
Core clock is normal as is ram clock and stays at full speed while actually driving. Its only the fan that is acting up, apart from that it works just fine. Those fluctiations shown on graphs are either at menu or entering/exiting sessions, but i think you mixed it with the fan rpm. Core clock isnt visible on pcars2 graph.

Just tried older drivers (385.41) and still does same with those.

Mad Al
25-09-2017, 09:25
Doh!.. not enough coffee... yeah, I'm always misreading MSI afterburner, the graph labels always bugger me up as I expect them under the graphs!

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 09:40
Heh :)

Anyway im out of ideas now. Tried even older driver, unistalled geforce experience and other nvidia stuff alltogether but still does that :( I could understand if my windows instal would be somehow messed up and it would happen on other titles aswell, but as only game/app it happens in pcars2 there isnt really any explanation apart from that game is causing that behaviour somehow.

Morgan Henstridge
25-09-2017, 09:44
Just as an outside chance, you could try the -SSE2 launch parameter, incase its some issue with the new AVX instruction set EXE.

Would hopefully at least let you play while its being investigated.

Tepp
25-09-2017, 10:03
So im having some seriously strange issue with this game and my GPU. Whenever i launch project cars 2 my GTX 980ti fans goes completely nuts, first getting to full blast (2800rpm) for few seconds and then pulses up & down constantly.t

When you are not using V-Sync, the game renders crazy 1000+ fps in the menu (check that with Fraps). Which causes GPU to run at max all the time.

Try to use "-fpscap XX" launch parameter, this will limit the frame rate generated by the game, and avoid GPU from doing unneeded work. XX depends on your system and monitor: 65 if it's 60Hz monitor and you have V-Sync On, and something around 125 if you have V-Sync Off. If you have 144Hz monitor, try XX=150. Actually it's enough to turn On the V-Sync to limit the frame rate.

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 10:04
Just as an outside chance, you could try the -SSE2 launch parameter, incase its some issue with the new AVX instruction set EXE.

Would hopefully at least let you play while its being investigated. Thanks for the suggestion, sadly makes no difference :(

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 10:07
When you are not using V-Sync, the game renders crazy 1000+ fps in the menu (check that with Fraps). Which causes GPU to run at max all the time.

Try to use "-fpscap XX" launch parameter, this will limit the frame rate generated by the game, and avoid GPU from doing unneeded work. XX depends on your system and monitor: 65 if it's 60Hz monitor and you have V-Sync On, and something around 125 if you have V-Sync Off.

I have fps limited to 100 now so its not that. Even tried with vsync on and screen set to 60hz but no difference. Its not like im getting huge load at menus anyway, its just some strange error beetween this game, gfx card & drivers. As mentioned earlier fan control gets totally broken/override on this game. I cant even set my fan speed manually to desired value, if i do it works as long im at desktop/other games/apps. But at the second i start pcars2 hell breaks loose again and fan goes nuts.

Schumi-
25-09-2017, 10:12
I had a similar problem , high Gpu temps fans spinning rather high, turned out that having supersampling on was killing my GPU even though it was a 1080ti Gaming X, turned that off , everything is back to normal.

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 10:32
My temps are really low on this game, (20c) lower than on any other games simply because fans are running so fast on this. Yet its not like its gradually ramping up to keep temperatures unders control. If you watch the vid on first page fans goes nuts immideatly after launching game.

Sampo
25-09-2017, 12:48
Have you tried disabling MSI Afterburner completely?

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 13:11
Have you tried disabling MSI Afterburner completely? Yes. As said earlier tried without any monitoring softwares, even uninstalled those completely today = no difference.

List of things tried so far :

- 4 nvidia different drivers
- removed all nvidia related software including geforce experience + used DDU to totally clean sweep
- reset bios
- uninstal all monitoring softwares
- locking framerate / using v-sync
- Removing gfx confiq file (This did somehow help, atleast fan was then locked to lower rpm even that it still wasnt working normally. But worked only temporarily and then got back to all out madness )
- removing & reseating card


I can play the game fine if using headphones, but its just super annoying and definately not normal.

Joni Varis
25-09-2017, 15:45
If there is some logs etc you need just let me know. Really want to get this sorted out.

Joni Varis
26-09-2017, 06:17
Could it be that this is somehow related to the "led issue" several guys reported with nvidia cards? This card doesnt have leds on cooler/shroud, but does on the fans itself. So maybe game somehow messes up with the led on the fans which then disturbs fan control? Now the card is reporting fanspeed 0% even its running at high rpm and jumping beetween 0-2800rpm every second.

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 09:50
Could it be that this is somehow related to the "led issue" several guys reported with nvidia cards? This card doesnt have leds on cooler/shroud, but does on the fans itself. So maybe game somehow messes up with the led on the fans which then disturbs fan control? Now the card is reporting fanspeed 0% even its running at high rpm and jumping beetween 0-2800rpm every second.

The thing is that the game has no interest in fiddling with GPU hardware settings like LEDs. At most, the game does some graphics initialization call that somehow triggers the card to go crazy, probably through the driver. My GPU behaves fine when the game starts and runs, so it would be interesting to know whether it's the brand, the GPU type or even something else that is connected to this.

Joni Varis
26-09-2017, 10:01
Well i know it is strange, but still something on this game causes these odd happenings. On my secondary rig i have GTX 970, it has those strange led flickering problems others have reported aswell & only on pcars 2, doesnt happen on any other use/app/game. Then again on this main rig i have 20+ games & every other title works just fine, then launching pcars2 = suddenly fans go totally ballistic and card reports odd reading like 0% fanspeed, even that is running fans 2000rpm+.

And as i said earlier game runs fine with good FPS, no crashing or anything. But really dont dare to play it much atm as those kind of fanspeeds are definately not healthy for the card in long term.

Wings11
26-09-2017, 10:52
Have you had any joy in curing this Joni?. I've got exactly the same issue as you, sounds like the PC is on a startline revving!.

Mad Al
26-09-2017, 11:28
Have you had any joy in curing this Joni?. I've got exactly the same issue as you, sounds like the PC is on a startline revving!.

Have you got the same make and model of GPU or is it different?

Joni Varis
26-09-2017, 11:42
Have you had any joy in curing this Joni?. I've got exactly the same issue as you, sounds like the PC is on a startline revving!.

Sadly no luck so far.

Joni Varis
27-09-2017, 06:06
I would really want some confirmation that this problem has been passed towards dev team to be looked at.

As said earlier can supply log files or whatever info they might need for investigation. Afterall would be nice to actually play the game proberly that just bought & at current state not really an option, dont want to risk my hardware because of single game that decides to takeover my computer.

Wings11
27-09-2017, 17:27
Have you got the same make and model of GPU or is it different?

GTX980 2GB, latest Nvidia Drivers

Joni Varis
27-09-2017, 18:33
GTX980 2GB, latest Nvidia Drivers
Hmm are you sure its 2GB? I think GTX 980 has only made with 4GB of ram.

Sampo
27-09-2017, 19:23
I know it's far fetched, but could you try exchanging your 970 and 980ti and checking what happens during PC2?

Aldo Zampatti
27-09-2017, 19:32
I would really want some confirmation that this problem has been passed towards dev team to be looked at.

As said earlier can supply log files or whatever info they might need for investigation. Afterall would be nice to actually play the game proberly that just bought & at current state not really an option, dont want to risk my hardware because of single game that decides to takeover my computer.

Yes Joni. It's reported internally. I'll message you privately in case the devs needs some kind of log about this.

Joni Varis
28-09-2017, 04:46
I know it's far fetched, but could you try exchanging your 970 and 980ti and checking what happens during PC2? Ye i tried 970 on this system & doesnt have then fan problem, but does have flickering led issue other have reported with nvidia cards. Cant put 980ti to my other system as its mITX sized "htpc" and this 980ti has 3-slot cooler and doesnt fit into it.


Yes Joni. It's reported internally. I'll message you privately in case the devs needs some kind of log about this. Ok, Thanks.

Im just so annoyed atm becasue of this. Even when play it occasionally have to constantly monitor what the gfx card/fans are doing, obviously highly distracting when cant purely concentrate to driving.

N0body Of The Goat
28-09-2017, 06:15
Joni, do you have any supplemental apps/programs running for your graphics card, like MSI Afterburner that might be out of date?

Earlier this week, my R9 390 randomly went to 100% fan while web browsing, it turned out that I was using a version of Sapphire Trixx that was out of date and not fully compatible with recent AMD drivers.

Joni Varis
28-09-2017, 07:13
Some posts ago mentioned that even tried removing all monitoring apps alltogether, yet the still had same problem. I know sometimes monitoring apps can cause weird behaviour on certain cases, but its not the cause of this problem.


Yes. As said earlier tried without any monitoring softwares, even uninstalled those completely today = no difference.

List of things tried so far :

- 4 nvidia different drivers
- removed all nvidia related software including geforce experience + used DDU to totally clean sweep
- reset bios
- uninstal all monitoring softwares
- locking framerate / using v-sync
- Removing gfx confiq file (This did somehow help, atleast fan was then locked to lower rpm even that it still wasnt working normally. But worked only temporarily and then got back to all out madness )
- removing & reseating card


I can play the game fine if using headphones, but its just super annoying and definately not normal.

Wings11
28-09-2017, 15:11
Hmm are you sure its 2GB? I think GTX 980 has only made with 4GB of ram.

Sorry Joni,

yeah mine is 4GB 980

Joni Varis
28-09-2017, 16:58
Sorry Joni,

yeah mine is 4GB 980

Which brand & model card it is?

Greif
28-09-2017, 17:56
Ive got the exact same Problem as you guys. Running a Gainward 980Ti Phoenix (6GB). At first i thought ist a easter egg because it sounds like a car that is reving at the start line! But after some time i knew that it has to be a bug.

Ive tried several Things already too. In fact all the stuff you did. Nothing helped.

ONE THING STILL HELPS: When i Exit the game (alt+tab) it stops after some time. Sometimes i have to pull out the tastk Manager but as i said- On Desktop it stops after a while. (maybe try to get in and out of the game 2 or 3 times).

When it has stopped it is gone and i can Play the game normal wihout any Problems! It's really just at the start. Very strange bug if you ask me.

Joni Varis
28-09-2017, 18:11
That gainward is basicly same card. PCB is identical to this Palit model (comes from same factory)

So now we are getting somewhere..

Greif
28-09-2017, 18:18
That gainward is actually absolutely same card/PCB as this Palit model (comes from same factory)

So now we are getting somewhere..

I have already emailed palit (they are handeling the Service) and i will let you gyus know when ive got an answer. It is the german Service but still i hope they will have something useful and not just the Standard answers including the hint i should contact the game developer... well i think that is what they will tell me anyway. But at least i have tried!

Joni Varis
28-09-2017, 18:21
I doubt they can or will do anything about it. Afterall its only this one game makes GPU to go nuts.

Aldo Zampatti
28-09-2017, 20:44
... On the bright side, I saw that my card (eVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid) turns on/off the light too. I did not have an idea that it was possible for that light to be off :)

So I'll report internally that I can reproduce the issue so we can internally test too. My suspicious is that the blinking lights is the same undrelying issue than Joni's GPU fan crazyness

Joni Varis
29-09-2017, 02:56
... On the bright side, I saw that my card (eVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid) turns on/off the light too. I did not have an idea that it was possible for that light to be off :)

So I'll report internally that I can reproduce the issue so we can internally test too. My suspicious is that the blinking lights is the same undrelying issue than Joni's GPU fan crazyness

Atleast we are now getting somewhere, really hope this can be sorted soon as possible.

Greif
29-09-2017, 10:42
Same here. It is really annoying. Of Course not game breaking but still annoying as hell.

Sankyo
29-09-2017, 10:45
My Asus Strix GTX1080 Ti OC LED lighting pulses on and off as soon as I power on my PC, did so even when I didn't have pC2 installed on it. Never checked if anything changes when running pC2, will do this weekend.

Joni Varis
29-09-2017, 14:57
For 1070/1080/ti strix default mode for those RGB leds is pulse, so thats completely normal. But example My MSI 970 Gaming 4G card the led at default is fully lit/constantly on and its not rgb or anything, just white illuminated MSI logo which you can only set on/off or breathing/pulse. Yet at default "constantly on" mode it flashes on/off & sometimes even turns off completely on PC2, when exiting game it turns back on immideatly.

fasterbater
29-09-2017, 15:38
My MSI Seahawk X (1080 GTX reference based, with Corsair closed loop cooler for GPU) has this issue as well.

Once PC2 launches, the MSI logo on the side of the board flashes randomly. I can also hear the pump working and card fan running intermittently.

Upon exit, all returns to normal.

I hope this is not causing premature wear to the cooling system or damage to the card...

Sampo
29-09-2017, 16:46
I opened my case at last and when starting the game my GTX980 led also flashes randomly (almost like morse code), but it stops flashing when I enter the main menu. I don't have any problem with the fan though (user defined with MSI Afterburner).

Wings11
03-10-2017, 08:59
Which brand & model card it is?

Standard Nvidia card as far as I know, it's not been jazzed up by any of the normal brands.

xMr_Crow
03-10-2017, 09:07
I opened my case at last and when starting the game my GTX980 led also flashes randomly (almost like morse code), but it stops flashing when I enter the main menu. I don't have any problem with the fan though (user defined with MSI Afterburner).

Same here

Joni Varis
03-10-2017, 14:17
As some said alt tab out of game several times cures the problem, well it sort of does, but not really :) If i alt tab out several times then my fan speed magicly locks to steady 1400rpm, yet the percentage still shows its running at 0%. This doesnt make any sense at all. At any other game fan runs still much lower rpm than that & varies speed according temperature like it should. On this game its like there is only full mental mode where fan goes to 0-2800 every second, or only moderately insane mode where its somehow locks to 1400rpm. At any point it doesnt work as intended.

But atleast 1400rpm is tolerable. But honestly dont get it, what an earth this game does differently compared to anything else to make GPU act crazy like this. Mind boggling really!

Joni Varis
05-10-2017, 03:36
Ok i think its now gone to the point where sadly need to stop playing the game at current state :(

Yesterday was playing and suddenly GPU fans decided to stop spinning completely. First thought it was monitoring error as have been getting so much strange reading on this game all the time. But opened side panel of the case and GPU fans were not spinning! Gladly i have very good airflow directly towards card so temps didnt get too high before noticed it. But seriously this isnt something you want to get, if would not of had any monitoring software open could of easily overheated the card badly and might even caused some damage.

COME ON SMS! This needs to be sorted ASAP!!!!

Joni Varis
11-10-2017, 11:00
Patch 2.0 made no difference to this nonsense :(

Its not really fun to constantly be scared while playing the game what will happen next. Alt tab out several times from menu initially locks the fan to 1400rpm, but also seems like it randomly causes fans to stop completely as explained above, so not really an option.

Sankyo
11-10-2017, 11:14
Are you using adaptive power management for your GPU?

Joni Varis
11-10-2017, 12:42
Default nvidia cp settings, so yes its set at adaptive. But cant see how that would make any difference to fan profile.

E: Also updated to latest 387.92 drivers yesterday.

LibranRabbit
11-10-2017, 20:19
I'm using the GTX 1080 Ti with the same issue

ph123uk
11-10-2017, 21:41
So the guy that said pc2 is breaking his GTX770 might not be talking rubbish!?

I use gtx 980 but I'm custom water-cooled so don't notice any shenanigans sadly - but there does seem to be more and more of these GPU based problems happening - wouldn't know how on earth it's possible though

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 05:12
So the guy that said pc2 is breaking his GTX770 might not be talking rubbish!?

I use gtx 980 but I'm custom water-cooled so don't notice any shenanigans sadly - but there does seem to be more and more of these GPU based problems happening - wouldn't know how on earth it's possible though

Well on my own findings would say its definately not too farfetched to think there is possibility that GPU might get damage while playing PC2. Would also want to know what is causing this, just cant get it that single game somehow takes over the gfx card and completely overrides the fan curve on vbios and cause all sort of strange things, like fan running full blast but still registering 0% or fans stopping all together.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 05:23
Before this gets out of hand. We can do absolutely nothing to a card's fan, there isn't any api access. We can't do anything that would stress a card beyond it's operating thresholds...

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 05:32
Ian its not about stressing the card/overloading it. It happens immideatly when lauching the game before even getting to main menu when the temperatures are way under 40c and there isnt any prober load to GPU.

So something on PC2 doesnt play together either with GPU + drivers or whatever = sensors on card go nuts and almost seems like the card itself gets "confused" what to do and starts to ramp the fan up/down every second. Now what makes it even more interesting that when you alt tab out of game it locks the fan to 1400rpm, which doesnt make any sense at all as there isnt such value on GPU:s vbios default fan curve. At default fan profile/curve on vbios is that fan spins around 1000-1200rpm beetween 55-70c, just then it start to gradually ramp up the fan if needed to keep temperatures under 72c thereshold.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 05:50
Ian its not about stressing the card/overloading it. It happens immideatly when lauching the game before even getting to main menu when the temperatures are way under 40c and there isnt any prober load to GPU.

So something on PC2 doesnt play together either with GPU + drivers or whatever = sensors on card go nuts and almost seems like the card itself gets "confused" what to do and starts to ramp the fan up/down every second. Now what makes it even more interesting that when you alt tab out of game it locks the fan to 1400rpm, which doesnt make any sense at all as there isnt such value on GPU:s vbios default fan curve. At default fan profile/curve on vbios is that fan spins around 1000-1200rpm beetween 55-70c, just then it start to gradually ramp up the fan if needed to keep temperatures under 72c thereshold.

It's not happening on my kit though.

I'm mainly reacting to posts like this one:

So the guy that said pc2 is breaking his GTX770 might not be talking rubbish!?

There is nothing we can do as a developer to override the card's normal physical behaviour, putting it in danger.

whip
12-10-2017, 05:56
guys this thread is silly, there's no way this game can effect the operation of your hardware, the only thing it can do is push your gpu to 100% rendering the game which its designed to do anyway

Lars Rosenquist
12-10-2017, 05:59
Default nvidia cp settings, so yes its set at adaptive. But cant see how that would make any difference to fan profile.
The nvidia card in my laptop (1070) had some driver issues in the past that caused really wonky behavior (hangs, screen freezing, etc.) when using adaptive or optimal. Setting this to max (counter-intuitive, I know) got rid of that. Needs reboot after changing (contrary to what the panel says). Long shot, but could be worth a check. I know those issues drove me up the wall and I was really surprised to find out it was this particular setting (it was also limited to certain combinations of BIOS/driver/GPU, so almost nobody had it, very hard to find a solution for it).

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 06:02
Yes it doesnt happen on all the gfx cards/systems, but on this thread there are now few others having this same behaviour aswell with different GPU models & brands.

I have done a lot of testing on this and not trying to put the blame for the game without reason. Offcourse as im not programmer i have no idea what it could be, but if single game/title causes oddities like this and every other title works 100% fine, would think only possibility is that there is something on that particular title that has issues causing it.

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 06:06
guys this thread is silly, there's no way this game can effect the operation of your hardware, the only thing it can do is push your gpu to 100% rendering the game which its designed to do anyway

How its silly? There is proof on first few pages that its this game only causing behaviour explained. You should read it all before posting.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 06:08
Yes it doesnt happen on all the gfx cards/systems, but on this thread there are now few others having this same behaviour aswell with different GPU models & brands.

I have done a lot of testing on this and not trying to put the blame for the game without reason. Offcourse as im not programmer i have no idea what it could be, but if single game/title causes oddities like this and every other title works 100% fine, would think only possibility is that there is something on that particular title that has issues causing it.

There absolutely can't be. We don't even write to the card. We write to the same set of drivers and API's that ever other developer does. We don't have access that 'hardware level'; it's all abstracted to us for reasons of safety.

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 06:15
Well dont know what to say really. All i know i have 40+ other games including PC1, yet PC2 is only game where this problem appears.

Sankyo
12-10-2017, 06:17
Default nvidia cp settings, so yes its set at adaptive. But cant see how that would make any difference to fan profile.

Adaptive apparently operates the fans based on GPU load and not on temperature or something like that. You could try changing it and see if that changes the behaviour. "I can't see how" arguments do not apply here, as we're talking about weird behaviour that needs to be figured out. We also can't see how the game is causing this, as it doesn't do anything w.r.t. fan and LED profiles.

whip
12-10-2017, 06:17
ask nvidia about it? its infinitely more likely to be a driver thing than this game

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 06:22
Adaptive apparently operates the fans based on GPU load and not on temperature or something like that. You could try changing it and see if that changes the behaviour. "I can't see how" arguments do not apply here, as we're talking about weird behaviour that needs to be figured out. We also can't see how the game is causing this, as it doesn't do anything w.r.t. fan and LED profiles. Actually was wrong, at default its set at optimal. Will test adaptive and maximum performance options later today.

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 07:46
Well tested adaptive and performance power settings at nvidia CP (restarted/rebooted system after change) and neither of those made no difference to default optimal.

Kitt
12-10-2017, 09:58
Before this gets out of hand. We can do absolutely nothing to a card's fan, there isn't any api access. We can't do anything that would stress a card beyond it's operating thresholds...

What about lights flashing and dimming on graphics card's, games aren't supposed to be able to do that are they? but this game does.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 09:59
What about lights flashing and dimming on graphics card's, games aren't supposed to be able to do that are they? but this game does.

We can't talk to the card directly, I promise.

RGnt
12-10-2017, 10:51
As this starts to get towards conspiracy theory level bug hunting, let's go for a longshot and do full virus and malware check with multiple different tools preferably. As there've been a lot of bitcoin bots going on and around, or remains of one lingering around. So best option would be if you are able to do full clean installation of your operating system and the game + essential drivers and see if that solves the problem, as windows tends to not be too great when it comes cleaning up it's own mess (trust me I am certified professional). Over all this starts to fall to same level as when friend of mine managed to break printer with java... Shouldn't be possible but it happened anyway.

Oomph
12-10-2017, 11:15
What about lights flashing and dimming on graphics card's, games aren't supposed to be able to do that are they? but this game does.

Isn't the led control part of the nvidia game experience. Perhaps do a ddu removal and then install fresh driver only, no game experience, no physx, nothing additional, just the bare driver. I haven't read thru every single post here so sorry if you have already done this.

Kitt
12-10-2017, 11:33
Isn't the led control part of the nvidia game experience. Perhaps do a ddu removal and then install fresh driver only, no game experience, no physx, nothing additional, just the bare driver. I haven't read thru every single post here so sorry if you have already done this.

Yeah never install all that additional crap anyway, it's definitely the game causing it but no one seems to know why

Sankyo
12-10-2017, 11:38
Yeah never install all that additional crap anyway, it's definitely the game causing it but no one seems to know why
Let's rephrase that: it's definitely related to running pC2, but it's unclear how that would work.
(It could be an nVidia driver bug, just to name something :))

RGnt
12-10-2017, 11:39
I would love to see someone who has the issue to do clean install with only essential drivers and the game and see what happens, as if it still kept happening it would close out possibility of malware/viruses or some other 3rd party service causing a clash with the game.

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 11:45
Makes no difference if you have game experience installed or not. And no, definately do not have any virus/malware on my OS that causes this LOL.


Yes. As said earlier tried without any monitoring softwares, even uninstalled those completely today = no difference.

List of things tried so far :

- 4 nvidia different drivers
- removed all nvidia related software including geforce experience + used DDU to totally clean sweep
- reset bios
- uninstal all monitoring softwares
- locking framerate / using v-sync
- Removing gfx confiq file (This did somehow help, atleast fan was then locked to lower rpm even that it still wasnt working normally. But worked only temporarily and then got back to all out madness )
- removing & reseating card


I can play the game fine if using headphones, but its just super annoying and definately not normal.

So basicly ive tried all the common things which could cause it, yet nothing helps.

Sampo
12-10-2017, 12:09
What about lights flashing and dimming on graphics card's, games aren't supposed to be able to do that are they? but this game does.

NVAPI has functions to control the leds. http://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/content/gameworkslibrary/coresdk/nvapi/modules.html

Bronzodiriace
12-10-2017, 16:36
I have the same problem with Pcars2 and my Palit 980Ti jetstream. The max fan speed of my Plait jetstream is above 2300rpm. Inside the menu of the game the rpm goes crazy with a faboulous 2800rpm. And the most annoying thing is the lost of the 0% fan.

To regain the 0% fan mode below 60C° you have to reinstall Nvidia driver and don't play pcars2.

whip
12-10-2017, 16:39
my pallit jetstream 1070 doesn't have any issues like this

you could always try afterburner and set a custom fan profile, that may help

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 17:05
Custom curve doesnt work. It still does the same no matter you set the fan at, something when lauching PC2 overrides the card fan control completely.

Bronzodiriace
12-10-2017, 17:22
Is something related to Pcars2 because if you play another game then setting autofan on Msi afterburner the 0% fan comeback to work when you close other games

IJOJOI
12-10-2017, 17:35
So first off:
The problem is, that the Menue - Screens have no framelock and therefore let the card run on 100% of its capacity, which creates heat --> the fans spin up.

SOLUTION:
Use a framelimit cap like you should do anyways. 200fps should be enough.
MSI Afterburner for example.

Joni Varis
12-10-2017, 17:47
Firstly thats not solution, because the fan behaviour is not related to heat or power consumption. Secondly allready tried using vsync and capping FPS and it makes no difference whatsoever.

Tyler Durden
12-10-2017, 22:06
sorry for my bad english.
i have the same problem like joni varis.
(pallit 980ti)
this problem is only in PC2 all other games donīt have this problem.
please fix it soon!
i have installed msi afterburner and the temprerture is not over 50° celsius but the fan goes crazy up to max in game or in menu.
if i locked out and in (2 or 3 times) the fan goes to normal!

Joni Varis
13-10-2017, 07:31
sorry for my bad english.
i have the same problem like joni varis.
(pallit 980ti)
this problem is only in PC2 all other games donīt have this problem.
please fix it soon!
i have installed msi afterburner and the temprerture is not over 50° celsius but the fan goes crazy up to max in game or in menu.
if i locked out and in (2 or 3 times) the fan goes to normal!

Well offcourse i hope this gets fixed aswell soon as possible. But to be honest kind of lost hope we will see fix for this, no one doesnt seem to have slightest idea what could cause it.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 12:39
until today NOT A SINGLE WORD from slightly mad studios about this problem, they even don't answer my e-mails, for those who have nvidia cards with led please open your pc cases and have a look when you launch pcars 2, the leds starts blinking and NO OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE CAN DO THAT.

no one can be sure if this issue can harm our GPUs, and this is happening since way before game release. can someone help to find a way to contact the devs? or only people who live in UK are able to reach them in person? this is insane, all i need is a simple answer...

RGnt
13-10-2017, 13:59
I again ask from you guys, has any of you done clean system installation with only essential drivers? I have Asus GTX1060 Strix OC 6GB no problems what so ever with the game, no led behaviour change (be it turned off, on or pulse) no odd behaviour from the fan and clocks stay where those are supposed to and temps are under control.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 14:17
i don't believe that a clean install would fix, because i done clean install on nvidia drivers and didnt fix. i have a evga 1070 since october 2016 (one year) and played 200+ games without ever none of them making my card start blinking it's leds, my pc case have a glass side so that i can admire my mobo and gpu's leds. since there are so many people having the SAME EXACT ISSUE the logical conclusion is obvious: there's something wrong with project cars 2 and since i'm just a 3rd world average man without extra money to spare on a new gpu i wont play pcars 2 until this matter is resolved. to make things worst i payed full price for the deluxe edition, it consumed a very large portion of my salary, is very frustrating because i'm a big fan of pcars since it's begginings, i'm big fan of slightly mad studios and i dont want to be angry because i know that life is not only gaming but i really want to play this game in a future where (now dreaming) it simply doesnt mess with my gpu. sorry for my english, and good luck to us all :(

Joni Varis
13-10-2017, 14:30
I again ask from you guys, has any of you done clean system installation with only essential drivers? I have Asus GTX1060 Strix OC 6GB no problems what so ever with the game, no led behaviour change (be it turned off, on or pulse) no odd behaviour from the fan and clocks stay where those are supposed to and temps are under control.

Well my current Windows 10 instal is about just as old than how long pcars 2 has been out. I think did fresh instal to new SSD like 2 days before PC2 got released. I dont have any unnessesary software/drivers installed to my pc, and tried all i could think of to solve this problem( There is list last page )

Again its only PC2 where this madness happens, so its very,very unlikely that it would be any OS/hardware issue. Surely not going to reinstal OS and everything because single game decides to act like this.

RGnt
13-10-2017, 14:31
I don't believe in things, but I trust in elimination of possible causes. Drivers has been eliminated already being the cause, so next part is to get to the point where we home in on the issue which in this case would be PC2 it self. If the issue still persist AFTER CLEAN SYSTEM INSTALLATION WITH ESSENTIAL DRIVERS there is much less to look at. And I just wish ONE of the people who has this issue would take the few hours it would take and do it just so it would be possible to home in on this. Once it can be certain it is PCars 2 it self and not say nasty little malware been able to sneak up on your computer and have taken liking to PC2's file it is easier to start to pinpoint a)is it something in the game code b)is it something with certain cards c)combination of both.

Edit: Cheers Joni, next question is are you running pCARS2.exe or pCARS2AVX.eve and what happens if you instead use the other one? Also try what happens if you use settings -> Override high DPI scaling behaviour by application, it used to cause issues with BDO (well in it's case from launcher to game as game inherited the behaviour from launcher and thus had it enabled).

Joni Varis
13-10-2017, 14:36
Tried both exes, no difference.

E: Just tried override dpi scaling on both exe:s. = no difference.

kofotsjanne
13-10-2017, 14:39
until today NOT A SINGLE WORD from slightly mad studios about this problem, they even don't answer my e-mails, for those who have nvidia cards with led please open your pc cases and have a look when you launch pcars 2, the leds starts blinking and NO OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE CAN DO THAT.

no one can be sure if this issue can harm our GPUs, and this is happening since way before game release. can someone help to find a way to contact the devs? or only people who live in UK are able to reach them in person? this is insane, all i need is a simple answer...
Im using a 1080 that has led and was just trying to launch Shadow of War and the led was not flashing. I then started pcars2 and the led almost instantly started to flash. I dont know what that means though. :P

Btw, its a palit if thats something that can help you

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 14:44
Im using a 1080 that has led and was just trying to launch Shadow of War and the led was not flashing. I then started pcars2 and the led almost instantly started to flash. I dont know what that means though. :P

it means that the only game to ever make your gpu's leds to blink is project cars 2. and if it would be only the led's behavior i would not mind but we can't be sure at all what or why only pcars 2 do this!

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 14:54
just wondering: what if the initial blinking (during game launch) would be like a morse code, what if someone (who is able to easily read morse code) could translate the led blinking to actual letters or numbers... because at least for me the blinking is not random, it is fixed at 22 (or 23 i dont remember now) blinks, with different lenghts... what if it's all some kind of easter egg?

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 14:59
found this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQlfwV6MMU

i would try it on weekend but i'm really scared to play the game on this conditions...

Mad Al
13-10-2017, 15:01
Learn how to edit your posts....

RGnt
13-10-2017, 15:25
Could people who has this issue, post info on what motherboard, processor, graphics card, preferably which drives and what memory you are using?

VelvetTorpedo
13-10-2017, 15:28
My specs are in my signature. When I first noticed it I was scared but it's worked fine otherwise since launch.

RGnt
13-10-2017, 16:02
Okey after talking with Joni and testing various things, I finally saw the videos on youtube of the blinking and it appears to repeat same thing. So it would appear that there've been some programming including little funny thing with leds (non Aura driven) which seems to cause issues with cards that have somewhat special way our routing their fans and leds. And been confirming around, the blinking is not dangerous in any way shape or form. But if you have the fan problem, check out how a)leds b)fans are connected on your cards.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 16:10
like i said before: the blinking is generated by pcars 2 when launching the game and i would not mind at all if SMS release official word about it being harmless. this got to be probably the most peculiar bug i've seen in all my gamer's life.
all we need to know is a simple thing: DOES THIS CAUSE ANY HARM TO THE GPU? if a) yes it does --> then never play pcars 2 anymore b) no --> than let's race and be happy

RGnt
13-10-2017, 16:18
The blinking DOES NOT harm your GPU in any way as I said earlier it is nVidia library feature to control the leds, HOW EVER if you have card where they've decided to cut corners (like palit) and have some special way of connecting their fans and leds it may become harmful if the fans are stopping in example.

Kitt
13-10-2017, 16:26
The blinking DOES NOT harm your GPU in any way as I said earlier it is nVidia library feature to control the leds, HOW EVER if you have card where they've decided to cut corners (like palit) and have some special way of connecting their fans and leds it may become harmful if the fans are stopping in example.

Well your statment that it does not harm gpu's is wrong then...depending on the make of gpu it could harm your card is what your saying

Tyler Durden
13-10-2017, 16:34
Specs:
i7 6700k | Palit GTX 980 TI 6GB GDDR5 | MSI Z170A KRAIT | Corsair Hyydro H55 | 4x 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR4 | Corsair CX600 | 2x Samsung 850 EVO SSD 1000 GB | Logitech G29 Racing Wheel | Win10 64Bit

Tyler

RGnt
13-10-2017, 16:37
No, what I am saying is that there is manufacturers who are using dodgy engineering which was not tested and may cause harm if you use feature in nVidia's library to control leds on the cards, the control of leds is harmless faulty manufacturing is not.

Edit: Tyler, care to check how your card's fan is connected to the card it self? Is it straight to board or is there something inbetween?

Tyler Durden
13-10-2017, 16:52
RGnt
?
the card has 2 fanīs on it.

one more time!
it only happens in pcars2

RGnt
13-10-2017, 16:56
When you follow the fan connectors, are the leads connected to the main board of it or is there a connector coming from board connecting to some smaller board 1st?

Edit: It seems you have same card as Joni does so, that helps narrowing down the problems, and yes it uses somewhat odd way of connecting the cooler.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 17:16
mr. ian bell wrote here early before this: "It's not happening on my kit though.". so, as a consumer's point of view (mine), this kind of statement does not help us because SMS is selling a product that is doing something to our cards that is not officialy listed anywhere (manual, steam site, etc).

and what's worse: the game was released more than 20 days ago and until now, not a single official word...

Roger Prynne
13-10-2017, 17:38
mr. ian bell wrote here early before this: "It's not happening on my kit though.". so, as a consumer's point of view (mine), this kind of statement does not help us because SMS is selling a product that is doing something to our cards that is not officialy listed anywhere (manual, steam site, etc).

and what's worse: the game was released more than 20 days ago and until now, not a single official word...

Because they don't know and cant replicate it.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 17:38
found this on nvidia forums: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025276/385-69-on-project-cars-2-blinking-led-on-graphics-card-/?offset=3

someone wrote this: "This has been reported for months, and across a number of cards in the 900 and 1000 series. It is something odd that the game is doing with NVAPI."

in other words: we're screwed as hell because it has nothing to with nvidia's specific driver/card, we are talking about MONTHS WITH THE SAME BLINKING MADNESS WITHOUT SOLUTION... god help us...

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 17:41
Because they don't know and cant replicate it.

now i'm confused: how can't they replicate this issue when all they need is launching the game on any pc with any nvidia from 10 series, specifically 1070's or 1080's? even on youtube you can easily search and find videos showing exactly what we are going through...

RGnt
13-10-2017, 18:24
fabriziospalding it is very simple, not all cards have the problem with the fans, and in example any card with Aura Leds you wont see that happening, and not all cards have leds on them to begin with, that is why it is not possible to replicate the problem as easily as one would love to.

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 18:55
i know, it's never "easy" on pc gaming, sometimes i forget we are not on ps4 (where life is much more simple - for example gran turismo plays exactly the same for every ps4 owner)... but on this particular case it is something so bizarre (the leds blinking) that i never thought i would lose time on forums talking about it...

but still i'm firm on what i believe is right: i'm not alone on this, and as a consumer i deserve to an answer about this, even if i'll have to wait longer, because i know the devs here are not sony or microsoft, sms don't have all that cash and power, and i believe too that i don't want to sound rude staying here and asking for solutions, i'm only doing what i believe is right. i'm still love pcars and sms, and will love more if you guys fix this issue!

fabriziospalding
13-10-2017, 19:37
found this on geforce forums...

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025276/geforce-drivers/385-69-on-project-cars-2-blinking-led-on-graphics-card-/

RGnt
13-10-2017, 20:21
Could someone who is having card that does the little blinkeroo send me a PM and add me on discord after to test a little program I am working to test out the blink/fan problem?

Edit: I know the tester works as inteded now, so if someone with crazy fan is available I'd love if you could contact me via PM.

kofotsjanne
14-10-2017, 12:47
i noticed today that its only at startup it flashes for me. When im actually on track its a static light.

palit 1080

RGnt
14-10-2017, 13:04
kofotsjanne, as stated multiple times the led blinking is nothing to worry about it is feature in nVidia api they use. Only thing is if you have one of the cards with a fan that goes bonkers during it, and that is what I am trying to narrow down currently. So to state it clearly, SMS have not done anything wrong with the blinking part (except if the code is as badly written as mine and delays load time that is.) The problem is with some cards so far it would appear that instead of controllin illumination of the leds it would control the fan speed, but I need someone who has the fan problem to contact me as the one I was solving this with is not near his computer at moment.

kofotsjanne
14-10-2017, 13:06
kofotsjanne, as stated multiple times the led blinking is nothing to worry about it is feature in nVidia api they use. Only thing is if you have one of the cards with a fan that goes bonkers during it, and that is what I am trying to narrow down currently. So to state it clearly, SMS have not done anything wrong with the blinking part (except if the code is as badly written as mine and delays load time that is.) The problem is with some cards so far it would appear that instead of controllin illumination of the leds it would control the fan speed, but I need someone who has the fan problem to contact me as the one I was solving this with is not near his computer at moment.
Alright. This discussion have made me confused. :) I have had zero issues with my fans, have been monitoring it with MSI Afterburner so "unfortunately" i cant help you to troubleshoot.

Sampo
14-10-2017, 15:00
In my earlier post I provided a link to the NVAPI on NVidia's site. It says there, that if a program can't find nvapi64.dll, the loading will just fail silently and the programn will continue. So I renamed C:\Windows\System32\nvapi64.dll to nvapi64.dll_ for a try. No more led blinking when I started the game. The game or some middleware in it certainly uses the nvapi to control the led. I renamed the file back though, because something else will surely want to use it.

The guys with the fan control problem, can you try this to check if using the nvapi is affecting the fans.

Roger Prynne
14-10-2017, 15:26
^ Nice find.

RGnt
14-10-2017, 16:13
To be specific what "causes" the led blinking is as I pointed out yesterday in the PM: NvAPI_GPU_SetIllumination(NV_GPU_SET_ILLUMINATION_PARM) but if that causes fans to go out of control on some cards it would be bad for said manufacturers.

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 16:24
In my earlier post I provided a link to the NVAPI on NVidia's site. It says there, that if a program can't find nvapi64.dll, the loading will just fail silently and the programn will continue. So I renamed C:\Windows\System32\nvapi64.dll to nvapi64.dll_ for a try. No more led blinking when I started the game. The game or some middleware in it certainly uses the nvapi to control the led. I renamed the file back though, because something else will surely want to use it.

The guys with the fan control problem, can you try this to check if using the nvapi is affecting the fans.

I wonder if Joni or someone else with the fans going up/down can test this and see if the behavior is the same as the blinking lights...

Joni Varis
14-10-2017, 16:33
In my earlier post I provided a link to the NVAPI on NVidia's site. It says there, that if a program can't find nvapi64.dll, the loading will just fail silently and the programn will continue. So I renamed C:\Windows\System32\nvapi64.dll to nvapi64.dll_ for a try. No more led blinking when I started the game. The game or some middleware in it certainly uses the nvapi to control the led. I renamed the file back though, because something else will surely want to use it.

The guys with the fan control problem, can you try this to check if using the nvapi is affecting the fans.

Well just tried it and guess what. Renaming the dll does stop the fan going crazy, so the cause is definately same for these fan issues and led blinking.

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 16:35
Well just tried it and guess what. Renaming the dll does stop the fan going crazy, so the cause is definately same for these fan issues and led blinking.

That confirms my first suspicious that it was part of the same. Does the fans set to whatever levels you set them on? (Auto/ xx%?)

RGnt
14-10-2017, 16:35
Joni, care to hop on Discord and test something out for me?

Joni Varis
14-10-2017, 16:36
That confirms my first suspicious that it was part of the same. Does the fans set to whatever levels you set them on? (Auto/ xx%?) Yup, i can set/control the fan normally again and auto/default fan curve works as intended aswell.

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 16:39
Awesome, I'll pass this workaround on for the devs to know about it.

Elmo
14-10-2017, 16:58
Great find, I will pass this onto our coders.

Tyler Durden
14-10-2017, 18:17
Hello,
I renamed C:\Windows\System32\nvapi64.dll to nvapi64.dll_
i have tested it for 1 hour in race.
it works fine no fan up and down (race also menu)
the GPU temp is in race 60-65 °celsius | fan ~850-900 rpm.

thank you for this tip! :applause:

mfg
Tyler

i7 6700k | Palit GTX 980 TI 6GB GDDR5 | MSI Z170A KRAIT | Corsair Hydro H55 | 4x 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR4 | Corsair CX600 | 2x Samsung 850 EVO SSD 1000 GB | Logitech G29 Racing Wheel | Win10 64Bit

Sampo
14-10-2017, 19:00
Remember, that it's just a workaround for now for those with fan problems and some other programs might need nvapi64.dll to work. The led blinking alone does not damage your card.

Joni Varis
15-10-2017, 12:34
I hope we will get this "proberly" fixed soon. Even that the workaround is "ok" for now, its not that good of an solution needing to edit of system files just to get game working proberly.

Joni Varis
20-10-2017, 10:25
So any news on possible fix? I have now moved the gfx card to completely different system (listed on my sig) and still have the same issue if dont edit the nvapi file.

fabriziospalding
20-10-2017, 11:56
i'm still waiting for next patch and hoping that the devs fix this once and for all, it's already 2 weeks without playing pcars 2. if a recall pcars 1 had patches more frequently...

VelvetTorpedo
20-10-2017, 12:18
they had monthly patches

RomKnight
20-10-2017, 14:00
Any theories why some have issues and others don't? Same drivers, same cards... sure it's weird.

Aldo Zampatti
20-10-2017, 15:14
I have no news on this issue, but I know SMS has all the information.

PeteMason
20-10-2017, 17:05
I use a PC with Win7 64 bit and the game makes my graphics card work hard. Download "EVGA" you can monitor and configure all your fans and see the temperature results too. My graphics run no higher than 55 degrees and cools down really quick if you set "EVGA" to auto. Lost the url but type the name and register then download. It sure helps to see your temps in the Taskbar. Hope that helps.

Joni Varis
21-10-2017, 08:49
If you would of bothered to read more than the title of the topic, you would of noticed this issue has nothing to do with temperatures

kofotsjanne
21-10-2017, 10:20
If you would of bothered to read more than the title of the topic, you would of noticed this issue has nothing to do with temperatures
Apparently it does, if you have a graphics card thats built a specific way? Something about cords going into fans and leds, im not sure how it works exactly.

PeteMason
21-10-2017, 15:12
"If you would of bothered to read more than the title of the topic, you would of noticed this issue has nothing to do with temperatures"

What a snotty and immature reply. Especially from a so called WMD member.

Aldo Zampatti
21-10-2017, 17:31
Joni meant to say that "GPU Fans going crazy" for this thread (if you carefully read his first post here) has nothing to do with temperature but an oscillation of the fan curve provoked by an API that (seems to be the case) Project CARS 2 interferes with.

EDIT: BTW, Joni being tagged as "WMD" member is because he participated in the Project CARS 1 development but as far as your perspective, it has nothing more than user status. I don't think his answer was neither "snotty or immature", so I would not call that out.

Sampo
21-10-2017, 19:32
Having had a look at some sample code from NVidia, renaming the nvapi64.dll might cause you to lose the ability to use the multiscreen support and possibly gsync. So don't rename the dll unless you really have to. Hopefully the devs can remove the side-effects in the next patch.

Rofas
21-10-2017, 20:08
mr. ian bell wrote here early before this: "It's not happening on my kit though.". so, as a consumer's point of view (mine), this kind of statement does not help us because SMS is selling a product that is doing something to our cards that is not officialy listed anywhere (manual, steam site, etc).

and what's worse: the game was released more than 20 days ago and until now, not a single official word...


Because they don't know and cant replicate it.


Because they don't really care about it or their game testers are useless. Needless to say that I have the same issue on a EVGA GTX 1080.

Roger Prynne
21-10-2017, 20:14
Enough of the don't care please, of course they care, why would you say that?

Sampo
21-10-2017, 20:16
The fan thing or the led thing? The led thing is not doing anything adverse to your GPU.

Rofas
21-10-2017, 20:19
Enough of the don't care please, of course they care, why would you say that?


Because nobody answered seriously, it shows me they don't take it seriously. Ian Bell downplayed this issue, it tells us we can't expect any fix on this front.

Sampo
21-10-2017, 20:21
Can you answer my question, please, Rofas?

Roger Prynne
21-10-2017, 20:25
Because nobody answered seriously, it shows me they don't take it seriously. Ian Bell downplayed this issue, it tells us we can't expect any fix on this front.

They take everything seriously, after all it's their game and they don't want any bugs, what don't you understand about that?

fabriziospalding
22-10-2017, 02:03
my biggest complain about the game would be the blinking led issue, because all "the rest" i'm really used to pc gaming launch bugs since the invention of the internet (and the huge increase in the overall complexity on creating games today).
simply put: bugs exists on almost 100% of today's releases (even on top games by sony like gt sport, god of war, etc) and bugs on the gameplay level usually are fixed, but in all of my 30+ years of gaming i've never faced such bizzare bug like a game controlling the leds of a gpu like pcars 2 does, and maybe what Rofas was trying to say earlier is how can this last for almost after one month the game's release now without a single patch to fix this? what appears to be not harmful for a bunch of people in the forums may appear really harmful to people who buy the game and are not familiar with forums like this, so for me as a consumer i feel like betrayed somehow by slightly mad studios, it's almost 20 days now without playing pcars 2 only waiting for a decent patch, been playing forza 7 (which is beautiful but sadly cannot compare with pcars 2 in terms of simulation - forza is really a fun game but is much more arcadey), for me these led blinking madness is a game breaker and really would stop worring about if a simply open letter to all community of nvidia users would be released by sms studios. so for me at least is one of the saddest game releases of all time, because i'm playing pcars since the early days of demo, really waited so much to play the new game and it seems i'll have to wait a lot more :(

Roger Prynne
22-10-2017, 10:59
my biggest complain about the game would be the blinking led issue, because all "the rest" i'm really used to pc gaming launch bugs since the invention of the internet (and the huge increase in the overall complexity on creating games today).
simply put: bugs exists on almost 100% of today's releases (even on top games by sony like gt sport, god of war, etc) and bugs on the gameplay level usually are fixed, but in all of my 30+ years of gaming i've never faced such bizzare bug like a game controlling the leds of a gpu like pcars 2 does, and maybe what Rofas was trying to say earlier is how can this last for almost after one month the game's release now without a single patch to fix this? what appears to be not harmful for a bunch of people in the forums may appear really harmful to people who buy the game and are not familiar with forums like this, so for me as a consumer i feel like betrayed somehow by slightly mad studios, it's almost 20 days now without playing pcars 2 only waiting for a decent patch, been playing forza 7 (which is beautiful but sadly cannot compare with pcars 2 in terms of simulation - forza is really a fun game but is much more arcadey), for me these led blinking madness is a game breaker and really would stop worring about if a simply open letter to all community of nvidia users would be released by sms studios. so for me at least is one of the saddest game releases of all time, because i'm playing pcars since the early days of demo, really waited so much to play the new game and it seems i'll have to wait a lot more :(
I'm trying to understand why this is a game breaker as it's not really doing any harm is it?
Genuine question as I'm just trying to understand.

Aldo Zampatti
22-10-2017, 15:31
Because nobody answered seriously, it shows me they don't take it seriously. Ian Bell downplayed this issue, it tells us we can't expect any fix on this front.

Rofas, stop it. Read a couple of pages back when ELMO (SMS employee) even ackownledges the workaround since I've personally notified SMS. Don't say "they don't care" and you can take our (MODs) word as official. When we say "we reported the issue", is the same as SMS saying "we know about the issue and its on our list of things to solve".

ermo
22-10-2017, 16:12
I'm trying to understand why this is a game breaker as it's not really doing any harm is it?
Genuine question as I'm just trying to understand.

Imagine that you've built a PC with a transparent case, with a custom water cooler, RGB LED lighting, super slick cable routing and the works because you like to show off.

Maybe you've even configured the lights to become slightly brigther in response to the load on the system because you think it's really cool.

Then when you fire up pCARS, your whole lighting scheme is effed up and your expensive rig looks and behaves like a poltergeist christmas tree instead of a finely tuned piece of tech-infused art-sculpture.

I can see why that might upset a few people... :hopelessness:

Roger Prynne
22-10-2017, 16:25
Yes I can completely understand that and sympathize with them, but why is it game breaking.

fabriziospalding
22-10-2017, 17:03
guys this it's just my opinion (that this is a 'game breaking') and as a consumer i believe that i have a right to be correctly answered about it, because prior to be a gamer i'm a consumer, i work hard to earn my money and sadly i live in south america where gaming here is at least double in prices than most parts of the world, so i spent 10% of my salary buying the deluxe edition of pcars 2 already knowing that it would be bugs on day one (because this is the new reality and i'm completely used to) but i would never imagined that pcars 2 would have a bug such as that (the madness of a game accessing my gpu's leds and messing with them with reasons COMPLETELY UNKNOW!), so here's the sort version of my bla bla bla: it doesnt matter my reasons (if i'm neurotic, if 'im not rich, if i'm insecure about not being able to buy another piece of hardware that cost me more than a month's salary), what matter here is that de studio who made this game cannot deliver ANY SINGLE NOTE (be it on media, on facebook, on any gaming news media) addressing this issue, and it is the devs responsibility to please we the customers who pay for your creation, to me is very simple: the game i bought are messing with my hardware like i've never ever seen in my life and that alone deserves at least some explanation, because i'm just asking to be taken seriously, i love sms i love pcars and i don't want to seem like some irrational person but i'm not happy with this situation and i don't want refund i just want this particular bug fixed because everything else can be fixed along the way, for me this issue is a game breaking and i really hope (despite my limited english writing - sorry!) that someone at SMS listen not only to me but to many other people who's mad too about this.

and yes, my pc has a glass side panel and i like my leds configured the way i like, not the that someone at sms programmed!

Aldo Zampatti
22-10-2017, 17:11
I understand completely (100%, look at "my location"), but we've stated that this is harmless, due to NVAPI call.
I do have the blinking lights since I have my 1080ti, still kicking without issues as well as every other WMD member. Joni's issue was different though.

fabriziospalding
22-10-2017, 17:33
i see aldo, there were never any official "statement" about the issue, even the temporary fix is something not acceptable on a marketing point of view, because the devs must understand that not every gamer is also a nerd who's capable of changing system files, and is 100% clear that the game is really messing with nvidia's files, so is it too much to ask for it to be fixed and why this have to take too long to be fixed?

so far all comments about "not being harmful" didnt come direclty from sms, but from people here on forums. even ian bell didn't believe that this would be a serious issue to some people, and to my understanding the long time it's taking is a sign that maybe it will never be fixed, and that's the worst part of this time wasting story: it's all because a single programmer left some poor piece of code on the game and right now must be ashamed to admit his error.

i know, i sound like a broken record but: i can deal with stuttering, i can deal with hands that dont turn the wheel when exiting the boxes, i can deal with broken ai behavior, i can deal with some many variables gone wrong in a really complex game like pcars 2 but i cant deal with a game messing with my gpu!

GTsimms
22-10-2017, 23:33
Yes I can completely understand that and sympathize with them, but why is it game breaking.

Its not a card killer or game breaking, because I have an EVGA SC. It might be a distraction!

fabriziospalding
23-10-2017, 01:44
but how can you be sure that is 100% harmless? how can you know that is not only the leds that the game are messing with? do you have proof of what exactly the game does to the gpu after the blinking phase (launching the game)? because when you exit menus and go to gameplay the brightness of the leds starts to increase, only to decrease when back to menus. and then if you exit game back to windows the brightness goes full (like after installing new drivers).

GTsimms
23-10-2017, 03:16
If you are not experiencing any issues. You should be fine. I have been running mine with no issue. Now, if you are having issues please let me know! But, I have not seen anything to be concerned about and I am using VR. Now, when OCing my GPU, that is a different situation. Yes, I need to be concerned.

Joni Varis
23-10-2017, 06:40
LED issue might not be dangerous or harmful to hardware, just annoying. But the fan issue caused by same "bug" myself and some other have is definately potentially dangerous thing to GPU. Really should get some priority to get this silly thing fixed, its unbelivable that single game messes up with your hardware.

Also what is not funny at all on this stage, is that myself and few others have wasted massive amount of time for testing to find root to this problem, then Sampo finally found what is actually causing it (Big thanks for him). But even now when most troubleshooting has been done by community members, there still isnt any official word if/when its going to get fixed. Honestly ITS NOT OK that some guys need to edit their system files just to get this game playable! Would say 99% people are not very confortable to edit those files. Also if you are one who dare to edit the nvapi file, yes it "fixes" the fan issue, but then it causes problems elsewhere as mentioned on this thread. So not really much of an prober fix!

ermo
23-10-2017, 11:54
Yes I can completely understand that and sympathize with them, but why is it game breaking.

I get why you are asking.

I think the answer is that some people simply can't deal with blinking lights (it ruins their concentration/enjoyment and some might even get migraines or even seizures from it due to epileptic attacks) and it's never occurred to them to just cover the side of their case and use headphones while playing until the root cause is found and delivered as a fix/update (I'm not trying to diminish the impact from this bug btw -- just giving an example that a more phlegmatic person might consider a reasonable, temporary workaround).

Other people are deeply suspicious that a game is allowed to muck around with their expensive electronics equipment -- particularly if they paid a lot of money for a high-quality graphics card, it might be hard to swallow that the fans spin up to the point where it sounds like a jet turbine and makes the pC2 experience unbearable to them (even if the observed behaviour does not damage the card in any way).

I guess people just have different tolerances for what makes a bug "game breaking"?

Maybe it would make sense to post SMS' official definitions of "urgent/game-breaking" vs. "non-urgent/non-game-breaking" issues?

FWIW, my impression is that SMS' definition of "urgent/game-breaking" is a bug that actively crashes/hangs the game or insta-destroys hardware. Everything else is technically non-urgent, even if it degrades the player/customer experience considerably on a subjective level and will be triaged according to whether SMS can reliably reproduce the behaviour. So on that scale, this bug is technically non-urgent/non-game-breaking, even if the customers hit by it find it to be subjectively game-breaking for a variety of reasons...

Roger Prynne
23-10-2017, 14:20
Regarding the blinking lights, why not just put something in front of the clear panel for now until it's fixed.
I can understand the concern about the fans problem though.

kofotsjanne
23-10-2017, 14:43
"Buy Project Cars 2 now! If you order within 5 minutes we also send you a towel to put over your PC case to hide the flashing lights, without any additional cost." :D

ph123uk
23-10-2017, 15:50
I think the lights fault is minor, it doesn't really matter, what is scary is that it can affect the fans and cause them to stop on certain makes of GPU - causing the GPU to overheat and crash the system - this is potentially a problem that could break a GPU, and I think the reason some people are concerned (and rightly so)

Luckily, I'm water cooled, so mines fine, but I would be super concerned if I wasn't.

Sampo
23-10-2017, 16:10
Luckily, I'm water cooled

Me too. My GPU isn't though. :)

fabriziospalding
23-10-2017, 16:17
"Buy Project Cars 2 now! If you order within 5 minutes we also send you a towel to put over your PC case to hide the flashing lights, without any additional cost." :D

you're wrong if you believe that the whole led issue is a mere "cosmetic problem with blinking lights", because 1) when a use the pc i look towards my monitor screen 2) i do notice the leds blinking and then dimming and then increasing its brightness during gameplay but 3) this would not be the problem itself IF A) SMS officialy assure everyone that the issue is not harmful to the gpu electronic parts AND B) SMS could explain WHY PCARS 2 IS THE ONLY GAME EVER MADE CAPABLE OF MESSING WITH THE USER'S GPU

you're wrong if you think this is minor problem. it isnt because games are not supposed to mess with any piece of hardware.

RomKnight
23-10-2017, 17:25
SOME users GPUs... Don't generalise please because I have zero issues on my gtx1080 and surely did not on my gtx780 before.

Be it LED (if applicable) and/or fan issues.

fabriziospalding
23-10-2017, 18:17
yes some users... tonight i'm going to write to evga asking for advice on this problem, i want to know what they have to say about it, then when they respond i'm going to paste it here!

Aldo Zampatti
23-10-2017, 22:15
All, I can confirm this was fixed by SMS and already working internally. It will be available on the next Patch.

Please don't ask "when" since I don't have that information :) Just rest assured it was taken care of.

fabriziospalding
23-10-2017, 22:39
hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joni Varis
24-10-2017, 06:44
Nice to hear that fix is coming. Now just got to hope it will be out soon.

charliev69
24-10-2017, 11:04
Aldo .

Are SMS working to fix the games start issues under win10 v1709 that many people are having ?

RomKnight
24-10-2017, 13:32
Did some tests yesterday at PM request.

No issues, still. Updated to the new 388 drivers... yep, still no issues.

And by NO issues I mean the starting, the flashing and the fan issues or any combination.

I tested, one screen, three screens and VR.

It was a LONG LONG time since I used one screen :D

Do have an issue now (as soon as I got to one screen only - side ones physically disconnected)... damn screens (all) are too dark even in windows and pC2 looks kind of bad even. Even the colours don't seem right.

This was before even updating the drivers. It happened as soon as I switch to just 1080p on one screen. WTH?

This last windows update sucks... and yes, I always do CLEAN driver installs (nvidia or others, meaning, uninstall, reboot, install, reboot)

But this is a case for another thread. I did look for auto-dim in win and monitor's settings and... nothing. All fine!

Aldo Zampatti
24-10-2017, 16:58
Aldo .

Are SMS working to fix the games start issues under win10 v1709 that many people are having ?

I'm actually been using that version of Windows since a little while ago to be ahead of the pack in terms of issues. In MY EXCLUSIVE case, I only had the alt-tab issue which fixes itself if you don't alt-tab out of the game (:P).

Also, I was tipped that Black Screen on load issue might be related to VSYNC config (try vsync on/off if you have that issue).

Besides that, a clean install of Video drivers should solve most (if not all) of the issues we were able to spot. Hopefully it won't be a big deal when next patch is out.

fabriziospalding
28-11-2017, 16:55
didn't see it on the list of fixed things in the full release log of new patch (today), so can somebody confirm if sms fixed the nvidia flashing leds on some cards?

Mad Al
28-11-2017, 17:07
didn't see it on the list of fixed things in the full release log of new patch (today), so can somebody confirm if sms fixed the nvidia flashing leds on some cards?

You could just read the reply to the same question you asked in the other thread... (but the answer is, it should be as it was fixed in build 899)

fabriziospalding
28-11-2017, 17:26
You could just read the reply to the same question you asked in the other thread... (but the answer is, it should be as it was fixed in build 899)

all right! but where is this "other thread" here in the forum? sorry for my english!

Roger Prynne
28-11-2017, 19:58
all right! but where is this "other thread" here in the forum? sorry for my english!

Well you posted in the other thread didn't you?