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EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 00:53
Hello all,

I'm no stranger to racing games. I'm certainly not the fastest guy in the world, but I'm no slouch either as I can put up very competitive times on Forza (easily top 100 on most tracks that I run and top 10 on a few). I've been playing Forza for 4 years now and drive without any assists at all. I'm also a very accomplished tuner (I've had several tunes that have run #1 times).

Project cars though, its simply impossible for me. I downloaded the game as soon as it became available and tried to get going. I went into Private testing and grabbed a Ginetta and figured I'd just run a few laps to get the feel of things. I took it out on a track that I know very well in Spa. I figured that track would let me concentrate on the game and the physics since I know the track so well. Its just ridiculous. Everytime I make a turn, the car drastically over corrects and I spin out of control. I have run about 200 laps now on Spa and I have not been able to make it through more than a quarter of the track without crashing.

What happens is when I come around a corner with any speed at all, the car just keeps turning in the direction I was going and drives into a wall. It simply refuses to straighten back out. The only turns I can at make at normal speed are subtle turns. I can make all the turns if I brake ridiculously well in advance and slow down to about 1/4 of the normal speed I'd take the turn in. What's the point in that though? I'd run 8:00 laps at best that way. Anyone who knows me from Forza knows that I don't run 8:00 laps. Give me that same car in Forza and I'm running in the 2:20's easily.

I've tried adjusting the settings to no avail. I saw a youtube video from Attax Johnson and applied what he had to say about the settings. Zero difference at all. I adjusted every setting on my own and nothing makes a bit of difference. The car simply won't stay on the track. Can someone give me any advice at all?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm using the xbox controller... Don't have a wheel yet, but I'm seriously thinking about the Fanatec.

thevilleky
25-09-2017, 01:34
Hello all,

I'm no stranger to racing games. I'm certainly not the fastest guy in the world, but I'm no slouch either as I can put up very competitive times on Forza (easily top 100 on most tracks that I run and top 10 on a few). I've been playing Forza for 4 years now and drive without any assists at all. I'm also a very accomplished tuner (I've had several tunes that have run #1 times).

Project cars though, its simply impossible for me. I downloaded the game as soon as it became available and tried to get going. I went into Private testing and grabbed a Ginetta and figured I'd just run a few laps to get the feel of things. I took it out on a track that I know very well in Spa. I figured that track would let me concentrate on the game and the physics since I know the track so well. Its just ridiculous. Everytime I make a turn, the car drastically over corrects and I spin out of control. I have run about 200 laps now on Spa and I have not been able to make it through more than a quarter of the track without crashing.

What happens is when I come around a corner with any speed at all, the car just keeps turning in the direction I was going and drives into a wall. It simply refuses to straighten back out. The only turns I can at make at normal speed are subtle turns. I can make all the turns if I brake ridiculously well in advance and slow down to about 1/4 of the normal speed I'd take the turn in. What's the point in that though? I'd run 8:00 laps at best that way. Anyone who knows me from Forza knows that I don't run 8:00 laps. Give me that same car in Forza and I'm running in the 2:20's easily.

I've tried adjusting the settings to no avail. I saw a youtube video from Attax Johnson and applied what he had to say about the settings. Zero difference at all. I adjusted every setting on my own and nothing makes a bit of difference. The car simply won't stay on the track. Can someone give me any advice at all?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm using the xbox controller... Don't have a wheel yet, but I'm seriously thinking about the Fanatec.
I've played all the forza games. They are awesome. They also are not realistic and are tuned for driving with a contoller. Pc2 has made big improvements with the controller but if you sort of tap left and right like I do with forza you can't do this in pc2. You have to have smooth inputs, wheel or controller. In forza 1 2 and 3 I had some top hundred times in the world on some tracks so I'm very familiar with its handeling. Pc2 is as close to full sim you are going to get on console. Invest in a wheel and don't look back. I got the thrustmaster tmx and I'm pretty thrilled. In my opinion pc2 still has a long way to go to allow the average controller user to compete with a wheel. I don't have a ton of time in Pc2 yet of course but on spa I'm about 20 seconds slower with a controller vs a wheel. It's super early so my time at spa isn't epic but it's like top 5 right now using the wheel. Again I'm 20 seconds slower using a controller.

bubbadabutcher
25-09-2017, 02:12
I'm a long time forza player too and pretty fast. I feel fast in pc2 as well, although less so. I'm using a controller also and it's really not our friend in this game. in my opinion, it's not a bad thing in his case since it's due to a higher level of realism.

I like Johnson's control config as a starting point. I've also been using real assists. it's probably worth trying if you havent. or even full for a bit. at least with a controller, running without assists is much harder to me than in fm. it also requires a little rethinking of tracks you know welll since, in pc2, we generally can't do things like carry every ounce of speed into every corner just as long as you can point it at the Apex. I think of that as tempo racing or something, it's fun but not especially realistic.

snipeme77
25-09-2017, 02:18
Guys the game has a glitch in it right now that screwing up the controls on some cars when AI cars are on track. Ian Bell already said they've got a patch on the way to fix this, just be patient should be fixed soon.

The glitch is causing wheel's FFB to wobble back and forth like nuts and it's making cars on controller weave back and forth uncontrollably. If you want to race right now, keep you AI car count down below 10, that seems to be the magic number for some reason. (Try rallycross, its really fun!)

Just Another Frog
25-09-2017, 02:21
The problem with FMS is you're running 2m 20 in a car that's PI maxed with upgrades, using a much more forgiving handling model so to assume the same level of skill and speed from PCars is a bold expectation. There's no magic wand to wave - it really just a case of getting the feel for the cars and practicing. Although i would strongly suggest turning on stability control and ABS - and find your own comfort zone with the controller setup because everyone has a different 'feel', with theirs not necessarily been similar to yours.
What I will say is that since purchasing PCars 1 (and subsequently 2) I can't even look at Forza any more - and thats coming from someone with a similar Forza pedigree as yourself (i'm more top 100-200 but online racing was my preference) with identical problems when I first started playing this game, so there is hope.
Good luck... Haha, now i'm going to Spa in a GT3 lol.

bubbadabutcher
25-09-2017, 02:40
try turning down your steering ratio a bit too. and turning up the coast diff. I started off with issues like what you're saying and I think I've done both of those things on every car I've run so far. also doing mostly straight line braking as I haven't found the controller/car settings yet to let me trail brake confidently.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 02:51
The problem with FMS is you're running 2m 20 in a car that's PI maxed with upgrades, using a much more forgiving handling model so to assume the same level of skill and speed from PCars is a bold expectation. There's no magic wand to wave - it really just a case of getting the feel for the cars and practicing. Although i would strongly suggest turning on stability control and ABS - and find your own comfort zone with the controller setup because everyone has a different 'feel', with theirs not necessarily been similar to yours.
What I will say is that since purchasing PCars 1 (and subsequently 2) I can't even look at Forza any more - and thats coming from someone with a similar Forza pedigree as yourself (i'm more top 100-200 but online racing was my preference) with identical problems when I first started playing this game, so there is hope.
Good luck... Haha, now i'm going to Spa in a GT3 lol.

My expectations aren't 2:20 right now. I fully expect a learning curve. However, to literally not be able to keep the car on the track at all is a little ridiculous.

I get that this is much more of a sim than Forza is. My movements are very fluid as I'm not a tapper with the controller. I can't really explain it properly, but something is seriously wrong. The car is like a demon possessed and it shouldn't be that way. I've watched videos of other players on youtube, that I am considerably faster than, not have anywhere near the problems I am having.

I'll keep tinkering with the settings, but I am very frustrated.

Methadone Man
25-09-2017, 02:59
Consider the possibility that a game bug may be causing your car to veer too far beyond what your controller is actually inputting or the game registering input when you're not actually steering the car, and that it's not really your driving skill causing this.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 03:17
Consider the possibility that a game bug may be causing your car to veer too far beyond what your controller is actually inputting or the game registering input when you're not actually steering the car, and that it's not really your driving skill causing this.


Trust me, I've considered it... Honestly, it has to be something along these lines. I'm wondering if reinstalling it would help???

theZOGster
25-09-2017, 03:55
I get similar results to EMW Lou (who I know is considerably faster than I am in Forza), mostly with road cars but also with full on race cars. It seems if the rear loses grip no matter what I do to halt the spin the car simply continues to steer off the track. I've tried countersteering while lifting the throttle, and without lifting the throttle, or sometimes gently applying throttle to get weight back on the ears but the car simply continues turn off the track.

The worst thing is getting into a tank-slapper. The game is simply unforgiving when trying to counter-steer or catch the car coming out of a potential spin. I have learned (not that I think this is right) to simply not react to even the slightest hint of the rear breaking loose - steady throttle, no steering inputs at all until the car catches itself - then continuing on. I'm convinced it's simply the controller. There simply isn't enough fidelity in a controller when it comes t steering input.

Frustrating, yes. It's extremely discouraging to not even get around the track at anywhere near a race pace for more than two or three laps without the inevitable, slow, unresponsive and continuous pivoting off the track after losing the rear end even slightly.

kevin kirk
25-09-2017, 04:38
you might be driving one of the cars with the issue.

Ian Bell
25-09-2017, 04:40
I get similar results to EMW Lou (who I know is considerably faster than I am in Forza), mostly with road cars but also with full on race cars. It seems if the rear loses grip no matter what I do to halt the spin the car simply continues to steer off the track. I've tried countersteering while lifting the throttle, and without lifting the throttle, or sometimes gently applying throttle to get weight back on the ears but the car simply continues turn off the track.

The worst thing is getting into a tank-slapper. The game is simply unforgiving when trying to counter-steer or catch the car coming out of a potential spin. I have learned (not that I think this is right) to simply not react to even the slightest hint of the rear breaking loose - steady throttle, no steering inputs at all until the car catches itself - then continuing on. I'm convinced it's simply the controller. There simply isn't enough fidelity in a controller when it comes t steering input.

Frustrating, yes. It's extremely discouraging to not even get around the track at anywhere near a race pace for more than two or three laps without the inevitable, slow, unresponsive and continuous pivoting off the track after losing the rear end even slightly.

The vast majority of feedback is that PC2 is massively more controllable over the limit with a pad than PC1. It should be as that's how we coded it. I'm wondering if you two have some controller issues.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 05:23
I get similar results to EMW Lou (who I know is considerably faster than I am in Forza), mostly with road cars but also with full on race cars. It seems if the rear loses grip no matter what I do to halt the spin the car simply continues to steer off the track. I've tried countersteering while lifting the throttle, and without lifting the throttle, or sometimes gently applying throttle to get weight back on the ears but the car simply continues turn off the track.

The worst thing is getting into a tank-slapper. The game is simply unforgiving when trying to counter-steer or catch the car coming out of a potential spin. I have learned (not that I think this is right) to simply not react to even the slightest hint of the rear breaking loose - steady throttle, no steering inputs at all until the car catches itself - then continuing on. I'm convinced it's simply the controller. There simply isn't enough fidelity in a controller when it comes t steering input.

Frustrating, yes. It's extremely discouraging to not even get around the track at anywhere near a race pace for more than two or three laps without the inevitable, slow, unresponsive and continuous pivoting off the track after losing the rear end even slightly.

In a sort of "misery loves company" way, I'm glad to hear that someone else is having the exact same issues. I'm not glad that you are having troubles, as I feel your pain, but its nice to know that I'm not imagining it. OH, and you're pretty much the same skill level as I am in FM, don't sell yourself short...

Funny thing is, I bought Assetto Corsa not too long ago and played that with the controller. That game is not supposed to be controller friendly at all. Yet, I can do reasonably well with the controller in that game. PC2 is supposed to be cooperative with controllers and it isn't with mine. I've heard from a bunch of other Forza top players who are doing rather well with the controller in PC2 though. So, I'm stumped...

I really didn't want to put the money out for a Fanatec setup, but I think I'm going to go for it. I can use it for AC, PC2, and some other SIMs. If I buy FM7 (most likely won't as I don't like the direction its heading) I can probably use it there too.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 05:28
The vast majority of feedback is that PC2 is massively more controllable over the limit with a pad than PC1. It should be as that's how we coded it. I'm wondering if you two have some controller issues.

I've read the same feedback (though I'm sure not nearly as much as you have), so its possible that its just our controllers. However, my controller doesn't give me any issues with other games at all. I know that I have an old one laying around somewhere, I'll try to dig it out and and see if its the same issues.

Nint
25-09-2017, 07:25
The vast majority of feedback is that PC2 is massively more controllable over the limit with a pad than PC1. It should be as that's how we coded it. I'm wondering if you two have some controller issues.
Just to be sure, do you also consider as normal behaviour the examples listed in this other topic? (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51707-Can-t-get-the-car-to-stay-straight-(controller)) Because I'm bit worried that no one has acknowledged that thread yet.
There are some weird handling issues on Xbox that I find very hard to believe every car works as intended.

Thanks for your time though. This is very appreciated! :)

MXR SMILER
25-09-2017, 09:29
Trust me, I've considered it... Honestly, it has to be something along these lines. I'm wondering if reinstalling it would help???

Tried uninstalling and re-installing - hard reset - an fire it up..... Same FFB issue on G920. So I wouldn't bother trying that - sorry. Think I read in one of your posts you were considering a wheel - love my G920 but if you can afford 750 for the fanatec v3 it is a lot better from what I've heard. Racing with a wheel is so much more immersive and I strongly recommend it.

RobPhoboS
25-09-2017, 10:54
I'm having the same problems as well, and I'm sorry it's not my controller if other games are working properly.
To be honest with the SMS team, I'm putting this back on the shelf either until some things are addressed regarding the controls with a controller and MP lobbies, or until I've gotten the wheel setup I want (maybe with the One X).

RobPhoboS
25-09-2017, 11:17
And just a quick note - I'm just playing with the 720S, Catalunya, Sunny - with ABS on but TC/SC off - man its great !

A3jan
25-09-2017, 12:50
First laps with the standard controlls where bad.
I tried the Etak Johnson controller settings. But
It was to twitchy for my taste. Kept the johnson settings.
Put the steering sensibility lower and it was much beter.

And I put the camera view further back in cockpit view.

theZOGster
25-09-2017, 13:17
I remember having similar issues in PCars 1 but much more pronounced. When that game first came out I couldn't do one lap without spinning or tank slapping my way off the track.

I'm not sure it's a controller issue, because it doesn't affect any other games in the same way - I do have other controllers to test though.

I looked at a few replays of this behavior and the front wheels of the car I am driving don't seem to reflect the steering input I have applied (not sure if the visual aspect of the wheels turning or not turning affects the actual behavior of the car). At some point I have full opposite lock on the controller but the front wheels barely show any deflection from straight at all.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 15:19
Tried uninstalling and re-installing - hard reset - an fire it up..... Same FFB issue on G920. So I wouldn't bother trying that - sorry. Think I read in one of your posts you were considering a wheel - love my G920 but if you can afford 750 for the fanatec v3 it is a lot better from what I've heard. Racing with a wheel is so much more immersive and I strongly recommend it.

Yes, I'm seriously considering a wheel. Problem is, I'm a somewhat older guy and just not very tech savy. Been swinging a hammer for the last 33 years everyday, tech is just not what I do. The simplicity of the controller is what I enjoy. Reading about all the firmware, settings, etc., on wheels makes me very gun shy. The clock is still blinking 12:00 on my VCR afterall :D just kidding. For me, its not a matter of being able to afford the Fanatec. I just hate to spend that kind of coin when the Xbox and games cost only a fraction of that hardware. The lower priced wheels scare me because trouble has a way of finding me with stuff like that. Seems like every time I go with something lower priced, it ends up costing more because I ditch it eventually and go for the higher end one down the road. Just thinking I might as well start there this time around.

I was perfectly content with Forza for a long time, but I've really grown sick of it in the last year or so. Its time for me to move on and it looks like getting a wheel is a must.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 16:39
Just to be sure, do you also consider as normal behaviour the examples listed in this other topic? (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51707-Can-t-get-the-car-to-stay-straight-(controller)) Because I'm bit worried that no one has acknowledged that thread yet.
There are some weird handling issues on Xbox that I find very hard to believe every car works as intended.

Thanks for your time though. This is very appreciated! :)

I thought I already responded to this, maybe my post just got lost somehow. Forgive me if my response shows up twice...

I'm not really having the same problems mentioned in that thread. Straight line driving isn't an issue at all. I do need to be super careful with minor steering input though as the game is clearly very sensitive to small movements in the joystick. I learned how to be very subtle with the joystick playing Forza and there is no issue for me with that here. Its turning. Specifically, coming out of the turn is the real issue. The car simply won't straighten back out and continues turning into the wall almost every time.

Let me try and break it down further. I've done all my testing on Spa.

From the line to turn 1, I don't have any issues. The car behaves very poorly through the turn 1, but its manageable.

At the top of Eau Rouge, the car just will not straighten back out. I go through the lower section just fine, but as I try to get the car lined up coming out of turn 5, it just keeps turning no matter what I do.

The Kemmel Straight is perfect the whole way. Turns 7,8, and 9 don't give me any problems worth mentioning.

Turns 10 through 18 are an absolute nightmare. 14 and 18 being the worst. I've yet to make it through turn 14 even one time without the car driving into the wall. I'm talking over 200 laps now and I have crashed EVERY SINGLE TIME. The car just won't stop turning and goes into the wall. I've slowed all the way down to 1st gear and tried taking the turn at a snail's pace and still get the same exact results. 18 isn't quite as bad, but its far from good. Even at slow speed the car loses the rear end and won't stop turning until it hits the wall.

19 and 20 I have no problems with.

Eric Everfast
25-09-2017, 16:56
I'm considering this: https://www.kontrolfreek.com/thumbsticks/speed-freek-apex.html

... until I'm able to get a wheel. I am also thinking of a Fanatec setup (P1 alacantra wheel w/ CSL base & CSL pedals with the loadcell on the brake).

CraigO
25-09-2017, 17:33
Yes, I'm seriously considering a wheel. Problem is, I'm a somewhat older guy and just not very tech savy. Been swinging a hammer for the last 33 years everyday, tech is just not what I do. The simplicity of the controller is what I enjoy. Reading about all the firmware, settings, etc., on wheels makes me very gun shy. The clock is still blinking 12:00 on my VCR afterall just kidding. For me, its not a matter of being able to afford the Fanatec. I just hate to spend that kind of coin when the Xbox and games cost only a fraction of that hardware. The lower priced wheels scare me because trouble has a way of finding me with stuff like that. Seems like every time I go with something lower priced, it ends up costing more because I ditch it eventually and go for the higher end one down the road. Just thinking I might as well start there this time around.

I was perfectly content with Forza for a long time, but I've really grown sick of it in the last year or so. Its time for me to move on and it looks like getting a wheel is a must.

EMW Lou, I don't yet have PC2, but I'm a long-time Forza player (3,4,6) and I'm actually just getting back into PC1! Anyway, I started with the Microsoft wheel years and years ago and then I purchased the Logitech G920 when it came out to use on my xbox one. I love it! It may not be as high-end as a Fanatec, but it's fantastic. Strong ffb, and a great overall feel. 3 pedal set up is a must! I have mine mounted with the optional shifter to the old Fanatec wheel stand. It's rock-solid and I love it. I've been using it heavily in FM6, Dirt Rally, and Dirt 4. Like I said, I've just pulled out PC1 to try it again on the wheel. I started Project Cars with a controller for a few weeks before I got FM6 and I haven't touched it since. I'm really liking it now though! Anyway, if you go to a wheel (which you should) it makes every game better. Your lap times may drop (who cares?), but the driving is SO MUCH BETTER. If you drive for the love of driving, you should get a wheel. If you just want to be on top of the lap boards, stick with a controller. Sorry I can't help you with your PC2 issues, but I just wanted to give you my opinion on wheels. You don't need the most expensive one. Like you, I prefer something that works right out of the box, which is why I've got a console. Tinkering is not for me.

cyc4ctk920
25-09-2017, 18:05
I had the same problem when I came to project cars to but I had to go in the controller settings and turn your sensitivity down and in lemonade dead zones for the steering and probably throttle but mostly for the steering

bobafettucine
25-09-2017, 18:22
I'm not about to spend the extra coin to buy a wheel, point blank, the game is available on Xbox one, therefore it should at the least be playable out of the box, and it's just simply not for me. I'm definitely no racing game noob either, it's the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with in a video game, hands down. I was so excited to race on the multitude of tracks, yet I'm struggling in the very first tier, there is simply no joy here. I guess I'll wait on this supposed patch to see if it helps, but I'm not holding my breath.
SIGNED: disappointed in NC.

Sankyo
25-09-2017, 18:36
Tried uninstalling and re-installing - hard reset - an fire it up..... Same FFB issue on G920. So I wouldn't bother trying that - sorry. Think I read in one of your posts you were considering a wheel - love my G920 but if you can afford 750 for the fanatec v3 it is a lot better from what I've heard. Racing with a wheel is so much more immersive and I strongly recommend it.

The FFB issue on the G920 is known and will be fixed in one of the next patches.

milliotseb
25-09-2017, 18:57
I'm not about to spend the extra coin to buy a wheel, point blank, the game is available on Xbox one, therefore it should at the least be playable out of the box, and it's just simply not for me. I'm definitely no racing game noob either, it's the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with in a video game, hands down. I was so excited to race on the multitude of tracks, yet I'm struggling in the very first tier, there is simply no joy here. I guess I'll wait on this supposed patch to see if it helps, but I'm not holding my breath.
SIGNED: disappointed in NC.

Some cars are playable and enjoyable using a tweaked controler setting.
Ginetta Junior (OK I agree it is low power)
Radical SR-8 and Caterham SP/300
Jaguar XJ220S (only on the dry ;))
Sauber C9 (with lower boost)
Lamborghini Diablo GTR
Those ones are the one I tried already

I have to say that I had issues with McLaren 720S

riddlerap
25-09-2017, 19:05
try the below controller config settings:

Steering Deadzone: 0
Steering Sensitivity: 45
Throttle Deadzone: 0
Throttle Sensitivity: 10
Brake Deadzone: 0
Brake Sensitivity: 10
Clutch Deadzone: 10
Cluth Sensitivity: 25
Speed Sensitivity: 95
Damper Saturation: 100
Controller Damping: 79

thevilleky
25-09-2017, 21:32
The controller doesn't have the fidelity of a proper wheel setup. There is a bump on the track coming into the final left hand part of eau rouge. You can feel it with the wheel and get off the power for just the briefest of moments. You don't even have to let off the gas in total, just sorta back off the throttle a bit. This is very hard to "feel" with the controller. In forza I find I can just sort of line up the apex and cut the tires all the way left or right. The forza handeling model "interprets" this imho as the "correct" input at speed and the car just sticks to the road. This is obviously unrealistic and in PC2 will put you in a wall right quick. I personally don't have the dexterity to make small continually corrections with the controller. It sounds like you have been able to do this to some degree with forza but forza doesn't have realistic physics. Bumps rarely upset the car and relatively large inputs are ignored by the forza handling model but not so in PC2.

I am also mid 40's with wife and kids so I get you on the wheel. I have been pretty happy with the Thrustmaster wheel. I spent $250 bucks and got a deal with the 3 pedal setup. It's pretty much been plug and play with AC, PC1, and PC2. I also recommend a cheap wheel stand such as the wheel stand pro for another $150 bucks. All in its certainly not a cheap hobby, but it's a whole lot less then golf, as I tell my wife. I still have my original xbox 360 wheel some 5 years later. Thrustmaster so far seems like it will hold up, so $250 bucks over 5 years is 50 bucks a year. The stand presumably, since its made out of extruded aluminum, will last for many many more years. I'd say thrustmaster ffb as a bear minimum. I've not personally used a higher end wheel then that but I'm sure others can comment on their build quality and what is best for the money.

tl:dr - relatively speaking wheels aren't that much. Do some research on the forums and get one. Your driving experience will be far far better.

theZOGster
25-09-2017, 22:19
try the below controller config settings:

Steering Deadzone: 0
Steering Sensitivity: 45
Throttle Deadzone: 0
Throttle Sensitivity: 10
Brake Deadzone: 0
Brake Sensitivity: 10
Clutch Deadzone: 10
Cluth Sensitivity: 25
Speed Sensitivity: 95
Damper Saturation: 100
Controller Damping: 79

I just checked my settings. They are exactly the same as listed above. I am testing a different controller.

theZOGster
25-09-2017, 22:42
Ugh. Tried a different controller. Pretty much the same. Drove the Ford Mustang '66 at Road America. The car wanders ever so slightly to the right so I use my electron microscope to accurately measure the smallest adjustment to the left and the car veers to the left, I then over-react to catch that wander and now the car completely snaps back to the right and I am picking hay out of my radiator grill.

It's the same controller I use in Forza and there is none of this. I know Forza is dumbed down and not a simulator, I get it.

Ok, so maybe the road cars are that much more of a handful using a controller. I jump into the Toyota TS040. I seem to have better control of cars in that class. I bat around the track trying to get a feel for the car and the track, tippy-toeing through corners I normally rail through. The car slides a little, I freeze my input, the car slides and slows until it catches and I continue. Then on a corner I feel like I'm nowhere near the limit the rear starts to come around, I carefully add counter steering but the car continues to turn to the right. I am at full lock with the controller and the car continues its death spiral as if I'm not even controlling it any more.

I resist the urge to quit and jump back into Forza. I try again. Shampoo, rinse, repeat. Am I just that incompetent?

bluesky0870
25-09-2017, 22:53
The McLaren 720S tends to loose control in some corners and to turn to the inside too with controller and with wheel too. It does that as described by you without any noticeable reason and without any possibility to catch it. The car also wanders from left to right and back on the straights.

bmanic
25-09-2017, 22:59
The McLaren 720S tends to loose control in some corners and to turn to the inside too with controller and with wheel too. It does that as described by you without any noticeable reason and without any possibility to catch it. The car also wanders from left to right and back on the straights.

Have you tried changing the car setup? It's a tricky car.. you can't just mash the throttle down (unless you have absolutely all driving aids turned on) at will. In general, every single car in the game can be made to be really "easy" to drive, simply by making sure that REAR CAMBER is at a much higher negative value than the front. So for instance put front wheels to -0.5 camber and rear to -2.0. Now it should be very understeery and "safe", even in almost extreme situations. You can make it further easy to drive by lowering the rear ARB and springs. Basically you can make the car be impossible to spin.. start from there. Then slowly add back the options that you just took out.. while practicing the driving.

Just Another Frog
25-09-2017, 23:40
3, 50, 0, 10, 5, 10, 0, 0, 93, 0, 58 and 15 for FFB because i have a broken r/hand shoulder motor that rattles uncontrollably with excessive FFB.

My preference is a small deadzone on stick (to compensate for any wear) and on the left trigger because i have a tendancy to accidentally squeeze it when driving
Clutch sliders are set to zero because I dont use them, as is damper saturation because it's for wheels and not gamepads.

ABS is 'high' (I have never been able to drive in any game with ABS offf)
SC is on.
TC is off

The above settings are designed for a cockpit FOV of 95 and bonnet cam 110 (the only two views i use) for GT3 and FC cars and will need a sensitivity tweak if these are lowered.
The settings work perfectly with a little understeer tuning (to my personal taste) with zero AI cars on track, are adequate with upto six on track and (like every other permutation of settings) unbearable with 6+ racing together.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 23:53
Anyway, if you go to a wheel (which you should) it makes every game better. Your lap times may drop (who cares?), but the driving is SO MUCH BETTER. If you drive for the love of driving, you should get a wheel. If you just want to be on top of the lap boards, stick with a controller. Sorry I can't help you with your PC2 issues, but I just wanted to give you my opinion on wheels. You don't need the most expensive one. Like you, I prefer something that works right out of the box, which is why I've got a console. Tinkering is not for me.

Give up my leaderboard times??? Are you mad??? Just kidding. Actually, I've read this many times that, at least on games like Forza, most people are slower with a wheel. Not long after playing Forza for the first time, I got ridiculously obsessed with leaderboard times. A nice little run of #1 times (they didn't hold up for very long but I had them) seems to have satisfied that itch for me though. I'm totally passed that now and really don't care at all about leaderboards. I'm at the point where I just want more realism than Forza, or Gran Tourismo for that matter, can provide. Just seems there is no way to get that on a controller though. I was really hopeful with PC2, but...

I just pulled the trigger on the Fanatec setup. Ordered a cockpit chair as well. The wheel will be here in 2 days, but the chair will take over a week. Once they get here, I can't help but think I will feel like a 48 year old version of the geeks I picked on in school. Life is strange...

I have a feeling I will be annoying everyone real soon on settings for the wheel :)

bluesky0870
25-09-2017, 23:56
Have you tried changing the car setup? It's a tricky car.. you can't just mash the throttle down (unless you have absolutely all driving aids turned on) at will. In general, every single car in the game can be made to be really "easy" to drive, simply by making sure that REAR CAMBER is at a much higher negative value than the front. So for instance put front wheels to -0.5 camber and rear to -2.0. Now it should be very understeery and "safe", even in almost extreme situations. You can make it further easy to drive by lowering the rear ARB and springs. Basically you can make the car be impossible to spin.. start from there. Then slowly add back the options that you just took out.. while practicing the driving.

Believe me, I am able to distinguish if I'm pushIng the car too hard into or through the corner or if it behaves in a way it shouldn't. How would you advise to tune the car to stop weaving on the straights? Even without steering it first goes slowly to the left, then l correct it to go straight on, it goes slighty to the right, correctIon, left, correction, right and so on.
And no, it is not my controller. That is working fine with nearly all other cars and other games... The weaving and the sudden loss of "road contact" is mentioned in the post above mine. And all over the forum. But everyone with different cars and on different tracks.
The Lamborghini GT3 e.g. for me sticks on the road like glue. Others can't keep it on the road on straights, because it starts to weave and to wobble without any reason or sense.
Please tell them, they simply have to tune their car. It is not the input device
or the shoddy driving.

EMW Lou
25-09-2017, 23:59
Ugh. Tried a different controller. Pretty much the same. Drove the Ford Mustang '66 at Road America. The car wanders ever so slightly to the right so I use my electron microscope to accurately measure the smallest adjustment to the left and the car veers to the left, I then over-react to catch that wander and now the car completely snaps back to the right and I am picking hay out of my radiator grill.

It's the same controller I use in Forza and there is none of this. I know Forza is dumbed down and not a simulator, I get it.

Ok, so maybe the road cars are that much more of a handful using a controller. I jump into the Toyota TS040. I seem to have better control of cars in that class. I bat around the track trying to get a feel for the car and the track, tippy-toeing through corners I normally rail through. The car slides a little, I freeze my input, the car slides and slows until it catches and I continue. Then on a corner I feel like I'm nowhere near the limit the rear starts to come around, I carefully add counter steering but the car continues to turn to the right. I am at full lock with the controller and the car continues its death spiral as if I'm not even controlling it any more.

I resist the urge to quit and jump back into Forza. I try again. Shampoo, rinse, repeat. Am I just that incompetent?

No, you are not that incompetent. The game obviously is flawed to some extent. I'm very disappointed, but I gave up on the controller.

bluesky0870
26-09-2017, 00:13
I was addicted to do rival events or leaderboard time attacks back in the days of FM4 too. Not half as fast as you are but not too bad. So l absolutely can understand you. There's really no reason to buy a wheel when you are fine with the controller. Except of the fun factor. The first time you will be a few seconds slower with the wheel and you will spend many time to find out the best settings for your wheel in every game. But time by time you will even up to your controller times.

bluesky0870
26-09-2017, 00:15
Give up my leaderboard times??? Are you mad??? Just kidding. Actually, I've read this many times that, at least on games like Forza, most people are slower with a wheel. Not long after playing Forza for the first time, I got ridiculously obsessed with leaderboard times. A nice little run of #1 times (they didn't hold up for very long but I had them) seems to have satisfied that itch for me though. I'm totally passed that now and really don't care at all about leaderboards. I'm at the point where I just want more realism than Forza, or Gran Tourismo for that matter, can provide. Just seems there is no way to get that on a controller though. I was really hopeful with PC2, but...

I just pulled the trigger on the Fanatec setup. Ordered a cockpit chair as well. The wheel will be here in 2 days, but the chair will take over a week. Once they get here, I can't help but think I will feel like a 48 year old version of the geeks I picked on in school. Life is strange...

I have a feeling I will be annoying everyone real soon on settings for the wheel :)
I was addicted to do rival events or leaderboard time attacks back in the days of FM4 too. Not half as fast as you are but not too bad. So l absolutely can understand you. There's really no reason to buy a wheel when you are fine with the controller. Except of the fun factor. The first time you will be a few seconds slower with the wheel and you will spend many time to find out the best settings for your wheel in every game. But time by time you will even up to your controller times and go faster.

mauriziocima
26-09-2017, 00:43
I have same problems as the ones reported in this thread. I have played successfully not only Forza 6 (whose handling leaves something to be desired IMHO), but also Project Cars 1 and Dirt Rally (which I found the best of the bunch handling-wise). I too have found that in certain turns it's nearly impossible to stay on the track - for instance turn 1 in Algarve International (but that happens in other similar fast turns). I'm using a controller on Xbox One. Unless I dramatically reduce the speed (in a way similar to that described by OP), I will lose the rear of the car, every single time. I've tried with different controller settings, and also different car setups, none of which helped.

Another issue is that on very slow and sharp turns, despite the car travelling at very low speed, sometimes the car spins at the entrance of the turn - "falling into the corner".

Both problems (losing rear on fast turns, falling into corners on slow turns) have been addressed, or at least incredibly improved by turning on 'assisted steering'. I am well aware that this is not great as far as simulation is concerned, but honestly, it doesn't feel like I have many choices. I believe this has to do with the fact that the controller does not have the 'right level of granularity' for making such fine corrections that are otherwise required when driving with a real wheel.

The steering assists doesn't turn my lap times into phenomenal times either - it simply makes the car more predictable overall; you can still spin and do silly things, but you feel like you have more control over what the car does, as it reacts in a more predictable fashion. So it helps in making times more consistent, and in reducing frustration/restarts, etc. so, cheat or no cheat, I guess I'll take that :-)

PervasiveFall8
26-09-2017, 02:26
I was addicted to do rival events or leaderboard time attacks back in the days of FM4 too. Not half as fast as you are but not too bad. So l absolutely can understand you. There's really no reason to buy a wheel when you are fine with the controller. Except of the fun factor. The first time you will be a few seconds slower with the wheel and you will spend many time to find out the best settings for your wheel in every game. But time by time you will even up to your controller times.
I agree, Lou. I wouldn't get wheel unless you are moving to PC. Not sure about XboxX yet. I too am like you I moved over from Forza. FM7 will be the first I'm not buying.

Seems some cars have issue and others don't so I'm pretty confident a patch will end up solving a lot of frustrations.
I'm using Johnson's setting and I like them. In car setups you can also digit with slowing or speeding up steering ratio of individual cars

Try Aston Martin GT4- man did I enjoy that car! When going trough careers.

AstroSmurf
26-09-2017, 12:13
Try these setting on controller config. the damper saturation and controller damping play the biggest part. steering, throttle and brake sensitivity at 50 is like being at zero or 1 : 1 on contoller, so if you knock it down to lets say 40 this is equivalent to minus 10 and if you put to 60 its like +10. This setup allows for quick response and forgiving opposite lock

steering deadzone 0
steering sensitivity 50
throttle deadzone 0
throttle sensitivity 50
brake deadzone 0
brake sensitivity 50
clutch N/a
speed sensitivity 95
damper saturation 75
controller damping 0

aleph99
26-09-2017, 12:42
The FFB issue on the G920 is known and will be fixed in one of the next patches.

I do hope you mean THE next patch, preferably before the Forza 7 launch next week.

thevilleky
26-09-2017, 14:39
I wouldn't say you're incompetent. I really enjoyed PC1 and am and enjoying PC2 with a wheel. I've tried using a controller and I'm pretty crap. PC2 has improved the controller functionality a ton but imho opinion it is still significantly harder then using a wheel. I know it goes against everything SMS stands for but I think they could absolutely dominate the Sim AND simcade market if they were willing to tweak their physics for controllers. I think it would be an enormous task but I think if you got it right you could have wheel and controller users go head to head. For me personally it wouldn't bother me if I was racing a controller player with easier physics and I was using full physics with a wheel and pedals. I think the two would cancel each other out. It would also mean I could play with friends that never in a million years would buy a wheel and pedal setup but like to race. But I guess that's what forza is for. I think overall I like the racing experience much better in PC2, but if you just want to drink a beer and blat around the track it's hard to beat forza on the controller. At the end of the day you may have to buy a wheel if you want to fully enjoy the game.

thevilleky
26-09-2017, 14:57
As you said be ready for some tweeks and some getting used to the setup. I went to a wheel setup at first about 4 years ago. When I first sat down and booted up a game I was like, oh crap, so this is what it really feels like to drive a car. Gone is the 3rd person view, I'm in the car, and this is harder then I thought it would be since i've driven irl for 20 years. It won't take long to click though and when it does boooooy is it sweet. That's why full wheel and pedal guys are so high on it.

I took my wheel and pedal setup over to a buddies house to play PC1. Bunch of very well off middle aged dudes like me in our 40's and 50's. They all loved the wheel and pedal experience. They tell you, you're a dork for doing it, then they sit down and play it and they're like this is friggin awesome!

Last night I ran an accelerated time GT3 race on nord sprint gt. Went from day to night to day. Seeing the sun set into darkness, fighting through the braking zones at night, and finally seeing the sun begin to rise and being able to really start nailing my braking zones again. Epic!

major sunscreen
26-09-2017, 15:02
For those who know this ignore but seeing the title of the post...Rear toe out increased will help give you a more stable rear end on turn in, and adjusting brake balance forwards if the back is overtaking the front if you're braking and turning.

PervasiveFall8
27-09-2017, 04:36
The nsx gt3 had .5 toe and was a wobbling beast in 4th going down straight- oddly no toe made it "better" didn't fix it but it was march more drivable wobble was a "light" front and it wandered but slight correction kept good for that short straight. Made races short as possible just to get done that career section

Toyota 040 LMP1 is another car that on Fuji liked to do the spin where you can catch it- decel to 8.0, full down force, no downforce, stiff arb (max front, min rear which should be most understeer but tried all. Stiff, the. Soft, tried being in 4th gear, 3rd gear for 1st turn. thankfully I picked short season, sucky part is its 30plus minute races.

chieflongshin
28-09-2017, 20:46
The FFB issue on the G920 is known and will be fixed in one of the next patches.

I literally cannot wait for this.
Sick of the not knowing whether I'm getting track feedback or that horrible wheel shake. I hope the patch addresses the lobby disconnects too.
IF anyone can share how the devil to get a car round the ice track and not spend 78% of my lap time trying to get off the verge that would be lovely

MXR SMILER
28-09-2017, 21:45
Smooth is fast, slow in gentle out and practice, practice and more practice..... Don't use the ghost at 1st place it will put you off, he's dodgy that EMW Smiler. Oh and some luck.......

Edit - that might have been amusing if you were on the same platform.

I turned boost off in the 2016 Bentley GT3

FTW Leceur
28-09-2017, 21:55
I am also a veteran Forza player and can get really mad playing pc2 right now. I was a gold tester for the game on pc and never experienced the issues I have with my Thrustmaster 458 ff wheel on the X1. Very frustrating. I hope a patch comes soon as I was beginning to wonder if I had lost driving abilities all together. Just started project cars 1 and man that game feels great with the same setup without any assists. Patience is a must here.

llE mc2
29-09-2017, 10:57
if you set steering deadzone to "0" with the controller, cars will wander with no steering input, leave it at the default "7" and thers no wander. already tested this and confirmed it, try it yourself too.

llE mc2
29-09-2017, 11:00
now lets get that generic 180 degree wheel animation in cockpit view outta here! give us controller users the full wheel animation that wheel users get, please.

thevilleky
29-09-2017, 12:01
Another thing you can do if you are coming from forza is turn on STM. I know, I know, you're crazy fast on forza without using any assists. PC2 just isn't built the same. The STM on Forza is very intrusive and you can "feel" it slowing your car down. The STM in PC2 is significantly more subtle and I don't notice it much. It mainly helps if you hit a corner a little hot you aren't going to start fishtailing side to side, spin off the track, and rage quit. I've played all the Forza's and loved them. I prefer PC1 and PC2 in terms of realism. If you haven't tried the controller with STM on highly recommend it. Realize you are trying to drive a 500 hp rear wheel drive car with a little stick. The STM makes that possible and actually makes the game a ton of fun with the controller.

I doubt this tweak alone will let you keep pace with wheel racers but you can definitely blat around the track and be a little less precise which makes the game an absolute blast. IMHO driving with STM on in PC2 makes it feel pretty dang close to the Forza handling model. Whether STM is on our not in Forza, forza to some degree behaves like STM is on all the time anyways. The way you can sling your car into a corner in forza is totally unrealistic.

tl:dr - don't sweat your ego, turn STM on if you use controller and have a blast.

Spewtopian
30-09-2017, 08:42
I drive with DAMPING and SPEED SENSITIVITY at 100% because these are most crucial to driving with a controller. (Having PRECISION CAPS added atop your analogue sticks will improve your accuracy noticeably with most titles... They're 8$ at Walmart.) Decrease DAMPING from 100% little-by-little, only once you feel comfortable. Setting the STEERING DEADZONE to 0% can be feel to demanding or twitchy depending on heavy your fingers are. Deadzone feels good anywhere from 2-25% as is with most titles. I steer with right analog because my right thumb is more accurate from playing f.p.s... I control the THROTTLE with left analog because it has a more fluid range of motion than the triggers have. The THROTTLE DEADZONE can be kept on 0% and has no noticeable effect unless set too high. THROTTLE SENSITIVITY is most easy-to-drive on 0%. Increasing this will give you more refined control, however requires extreme concentration that is hard to master for any gamer. Lastly, remember any visual, camera effects, and realism rules can turn easily from immersion into distractions. Tone down your realism and the difficulties in every way possible until you master the game. If you follow these instructions and learn to tweak the throttle and damping as you go, you should be able to play with a STEERING SENSITIVITY of 50- 100% :) I hope this helps someone to find use for trying to drive a realistic car with a tiny analogue stick. :)

MXR SMILER
30-09-2017, 20:12
Another thing you can do if you are coming from forza is turn on STM. I know, I know, you're crazy fast on forza without using any assists. PC2 just isn't built the same. The STM on Forza is very intrusive and you can "feel" it slowing your car down. The STM in PC2 is significantly more subtle and I don't notice it much. It mainly helps if you hit a corner a little hot you aren't going to start fishtailing side to side, spin off the track, and rage quit. I've played all the Forza's and loved them. I prefer PC1 and PC2 in terms of realism. If you haven't tried the controller with STM on highly recommend it. Realize you are trying to drive a 500 hp rear wheel drive car with a little stick. The STM makes that possible and actually makes the game a ton of fun with the controller.

I doubt this tweak alone will let you keep pace with wheel racers but you can definitely blat around the track and be a little less precise which makes the game an absolute blast. IMHO driving with STM on in PC2 makes it feel pretty dang close to the Forza handling model. Whether STM is on our not in Forza, forza to some degree behaves like STM is on all the time anyways. The way you can sling your car into a corner in forza is totally unrealistic.

tl:dr - don't sweat your ego, turn STM on if you use controller and have a blast.

If you use STM I am fairly sure the game forces TC as well. They work together. Please correct me if I am mistaken....

llE mc2
01-10-2017, 10:16
smiler, you are correct, stm requires tc and abs to function.

rpstar
01-10-2017, 14:24
Yes, I'm seriously considering a wheel. Problem is, I'm a somewhat older guy and just not very tech savy. Been swinging a hammer for the last 33 years everyday, tech is just not what I do. The simplicity of the controller is what I enjoy. Reading about all the firmware, settings, etc., on wheels makes me very gun shy. The clock is still blinking 12:00 on my VCR afterall :D just kidding. For me, its not a matter of being able to afford the Fanatec. I just hate to spend that kind of coin when the Xbox and games cost only a fraction of that hardware. The lower priced wheels scare me because trouble has a way of finding me with stuff like that. Seems like every time I go with something lower priced, it ends up costing more because I ditch it eventually and go for the higher end one down the road. Just thinking I might as well start there this time around.

I was perfectly content with Forza for a long time, but I've really grown sick of it in the last year or so. Its time for me to move on and it looks like getting a wheel is a must.

I feel the same as the first two replies. Forza is awesome but it way, way easy with all assists off compared to PC2. I tried PC2 with a controller. Still not real happy with any settings I've tried. I do think a lot of it has to do with just the nature of it being a sim versa a simlike arcade racer that Forza is. Not big deal. Both fun, but does mean PC2 really is best with a wheel. I relegate Forza to being my couch racer as it works good with a controller and PC2 as my serious racer.

As for tech savy a wheel is nearly as easy for setup as a controller. I use the TMX series of wheels (lower end wheel but the upgraded t3pa pedals). Works great with settings from SuperGT on Youtube. I will say though that either you are going to have set yourself up at a desk or get yourself a proper racing seat setup. I tried a "play from your easy chair" setup for a while but you just can't get the pedals right. I finally found some dude who had built one of the PVC racing frames you can see on the net complete with racing seat on it he was selling for a song. I'm sooo glad I picked that up. Pretty easy to build yourself if you have the patience. Anyways, that has transformed my racing life. It's like a whole other world (much better one). Only connection required are one usb from Xbox to wheel and then one from wheel to pedals. Easy-peasy. I also recently built a rumble platform (just 2x4 frame topped with plywood) that the whole things sits on. On the underside of the plywood I mounted two rumble speakers. Makes whole seat/frame rumble with road bumps/shifts of car, etc.. It's so awesome. I might put up a video showing what I've got.

Anyways, get a wheel but even then with all assists off you will have to learn to drive "smoooth". No sudden moves or your car will spin out even after tuning as much of it out as you can. I think that's just the nature of more powerful cars although I do believe it's somewhat exaggerated on PC2 versus reality. Not unworkable though and teaches you much better car control. All the speed books you can read about racing emphasize this and basically say you need to strive to give car "as little input as possible" if you want to be fast. That's my experience so far at least with PC2.

Update: just posted a thread with link to quick video I made about my setup.

Rapid FACR
01-10-2017, 14:53
Totally agree with everything I've read here. Same Forza background, would never go back. Loved PC1 and thought I learned something about setting up. PC2 needs a University degree and feels impossible. 10 hours on track and my cars spin out out at the slightest error. Desperately searching for some understanding, but mega frustrated when my changes don't seem to remain. Make a change, race, and go back after spinning out again to find the change hasn't stuck. Saving setups just seems hit and miss. But additionally in career mode I notice that the AI seems to have gone backwards in development. Cars go round processionally, not vying for position. Some cars seem to drop back just to block your progress and then I come out second best from contact while they just carry on. I'm trying to like this game, but PC1 was more playable and felt more realistic.

rpstar
01-10-2017, 15:16
Oh yeah, one thing I've noticed besides it just being harder as I said is that qualifying times of AI are all over the map. I had one race (rain both in qualifying and race) where AI completely blew me away in qualifying (10 seconds faster than me) but then i race their best laps were a full 12 seconds slower than that and hence I blew them away in the race. That's crazy. Found same case a few other times so far. Dunno.

thevilleky
01-10-2017, 16:31
The tuning is crazy hard. Finally tried the Ford gte. The default setup is crazy good. Maybe it just fits my driving style but the thing feels amazingly planted and stable. It's the only car so far I can run nose to bumper and door to door with the ai lap after lap. I can easily adjust my racing line, braking, and turn in point all while dicing with the ai. Ran a 20 minute race at spa and it took me all 20 minutes to pass the top 5 cars. Took 3 laps to finally pass 1st place. Went bumper to bumper into almost every corner for 3 laps. Super fun. If you haven't tried out the Ford gte give it a go. Makes most of the other cars in the game feel like trash. This is on xbox so no preloaded setups for all the cars like pc.