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View Full Version : How much faster are you with VR - How much faster are you with a wheel ??



alitomr1979
25-09-2017, 02:45
I started playing with since day 0 of PC2 in VR with my new Rift and was initially impressed and also kind of let down. The graphics are not shiny....at all. I was considering sending back the rift because as impressive as it still is, the graphics were not doing it for me.

But then I decided to play 2D because PC2 looks simply stunning and wanted to compare my performance. WOW. I am going 4 to 5 seconds faster with the rift!!

Dont get me wrong. I love the feeling and with my gtx 1070 and 7700k cpu I am able to run the supersampling option at 1.40, which really clears the graphics. Being there, in VR in a racing game, is really hard to explain, you get to see the minor bumps in the road, dirt, every minor nuance that you simply cant get even in a 55" tv, where I iusually game. But I wasnt expecting such a drastic performance improvement.

How much does VR improve your laptimes?

What about going from a gamepad to a proper wheel and pedals??
I am using an xbox one gamepad and my times are two seconds higher than the bunch in the community event of this launch week. How much did your laptimes improve from going from a gamepad to a wheel?

Gloomy
25-09-2017, 03:32
I can definitely read the tracks better in vr, specially helpful for tracks I'm not really familiar with. It's easier to know when to turn in as I can actually see and judge the turns better. If it's a track I've been racing a thousand times it doesn't make as much of a difference as I have most of that memorized but it still helps.
As for the wheel, I'm on my 3rd wheel setup over the last 8 years, I haven't used a game pad to race in that time.
I remember when I first went to a wheel my laps were initially worse until I got used to it.

-carbo-
25-09-2017, 03:39
Both improve your times, by how much is impossible to say and will vary between drivers.

As for your Rift - stick with it. Get it setup properly, make sure you have settings maxed out as much as you can for your specs, ask around for help with people that have similar specs to yours.

I too was disappointed with the rift initially as you first only notice the downsides. You soon realise that shiny graphics although important soon don't matter as much when you are focused on the next corner or a pass. In the end the advantages FAR out weigh the negatives IMO and once you get used to it there really is no going back.

As for the wheel - if it's a hobby your going to stick to get a wheel now. A wheel with VR is so immersive it's amazing. Some guys are incredibly fast on a pad but in general wheels will be king and a lot more enjoyable. Get a second hand G27 or something as it's not a massive investment and take it from there.

Chicken Patty
25-09-2017, 05:40
I recently switched to both. I don't have a comparison in PC2, but I can compare PC1 to PC2. In the Corvette C7.R at Lemans, in PC1 using controller and no VR my best lap times were about 4:12-4:15. Well below what you'd see a C7.R do in the real world at that track. ...and this was in Qualifying form, only necessary fuel, soft tires, etc. I then bought a wheel and I was able to do about 4:10 average, so that alone shaved about 2-3 seconds consistently.

Then I got PC2, and I must say in PC2 I think the C7.R handles more closer to it's real life counterpart from what I have seen and compared. I was averaging about 4:05. I just got the Oculus Rift VR two days ago and so far my personal best is 4:00:38. So you're looking at about 10 seconds combined for me at least. With a wheel, and VR the immersion is simply out of this world. I swear, I've put my hand up to cover the sun flare from hitting me, then I realize it's a game LOL.

PhydomiR
25-09-2017, 05:59
I went from triple screens to the Rift little of a year ago and to be fair, you don't really get any faster instantly. But the immersion is so much better in a Rift that i won't ever go back to screens for racing games.

Pad to controller is a much bigger difference. That will really shave seconds of your time.

D3vilDriver
25-09-2017, 06:19
I switched to a Wheel some time back. I was always questioning if it is worth it? Does it help to get better? And so on..

Buying it was the best decision ever. Couldn't switch back to a Game Pad. Just don't buy too cheap. I spend for Base, Wheel, Pedals and V2 Stand about 800.

Since last Friday I also have my Oculus. What can I say.. Same with the Wheel, I can't go back to a Monitor.
Btw if you play a Sim Racing Game for the Graphics, you need to question yourself if you are really into Sim Racing.
Don't get me wrong, it is fine to demand the best Graphics available, but for a Sim it isn't important.

My Overclocked 1080ti Strix is handling the Graphics just fine. I set the Supersampling in the Oculus Dev Tools to 1.7 and maxed out in Game.

Guybrush Threepwood
25-09-2017, 08:41
I wouldn't say I'm faster, but I can now judge braking distances as I can in the real world, finding the apex is a lot easier, and it's far easier to have positional awareness amongst traffic. Not to mention it's way more fun and immersive. As others have said, I can't go back to 2D gaming, in games where VR is an option.

The biggest difference to my times is using a wheel, which is only a g29, but after much practice, it shaves seconds off.

WIGG77
25-09-2017, 08:49
I wouldn't sat that my lap times have improved but my racecraft has. I had a rift on launch and have driven with it ever since. I was fiddling with my SimVibe settings last week and though I'd just use the screen to save keep taking the rift off. Man was I surprised. My turn in was late I kept bumping cars, couldn't judge distances.. the list goes on.

CodeCmdr
25-09-2017, 09:13
Your lap times should improve by a few seconds with a wheel, depending on the complexity of the track.

As WIGG77 also said, it doesn't only improve your lap times, though. The cornering precision a wheel gives you enables you to battle other drivers while cornering with a lower risk of making contact. Neck-on-neck battles as seen on TV are very hard to pull off with a controller, but with a wheel it's possible, at least if both drivers have good awareness and know the corners well. I'd say the overall risk of over-steering is also greatly reduced with a wheel and pedal setup. Tire wear will also get reduced a bit due to being able to drive more smoothly.

Sean_S36
25-09-2017, 09:26
Try Helmet Cam in VR . the rift feels like your helmet, the immersion is Striking :) Has anyone else noticed this amazing phenomena ?

WIGG77
25-09-2017, 09:29
Try Helmet Cam in VR . the rift feels like your helmet the immersion is Striking :) Has anyone else noticed this amazing phenomena ?

Is this working now then? I thought it had been disabled for VR as we were getting a weird flickering in development.

Sean_S36
25-09-2017, 09:49
Is this working now then? I thought it had been disabled for VR as we were getting a weird flickering in development.

I scrolled through the cockpit cams and Helmet Cam was there and it's great in VR, so to answer your question yes. ;)

jim jonez
25-09-2017, 09:50
Not a big margin in lap times with VR but a whole lot consistent . Higher chance of me spinning when pushing using a monitor compared to VR...

Control pad ? Should be made illegal for racing games :D

jagman789
25-09-2017, 10:47
A wheel , although desirable, is a lot to set up and takes space .I really liked the NEG CON in the nineties .It would be good to have a new release with some small changes to accommodate manual gear changes .

Purg
25-09-2017, 11:11
I never compared before and after speeds.. however, my consistency increased dramatically as did my control of the car. I found it difficult to translate a 2D representation into the attitude of the car. Skippy in iRacing at Mid-Ohio, I simply could not handle the dipping left/right hander without spinning. The moment iRacing implemented VR, I resubbed and I had to purposely do something wrong to lose it there.

I’ve loved racing games since there were racing games and I was always limited in the cars I could drive because I just couldn’t react fast enough when things got out of shape. I tended to stick to more manageable (slower) cars. Now I’m able to instinctively correct small problems and able to catch big problems a lot more often.

I simply won’t bother driving a sim that does not have VR, mostly because I can’t drive them.

Purg
25-09-2017, 11:14
Try Helmet Cam in VR . the rift feels like your helmet, the immersion is Striking :) Has anyone else noticed this amazing phenomena ?

Passed the same info to friends with VR. I normally tune the weight of the headset out but with helmet cam, I feel the weight and for the first time ever I had a sore neck after a 20 min session while in helmet cam.

Odd how the human brain works..

Chicken Patty
25-09-2017, 16:49
I need to try the rift with the helmet cam, never thought of that!

Karl87
25-09-2017, 16:59
How many of you are experiencing motion sickness or eye strain with the rift? I am up in the air about it, how about using an H pattern shifter? Any issues with spacial awareness? I would love a rift but having no friends who have one, it makes it impossible to sample before I buy. I want to be sure I will like it as opposed to buying a new screen for my cockpit which I am ordering. Is the rift generally considered to be the best VR headset?

KuKIE
25-09-2017, 17:25
On the knockhill caterham event i was able to knock 1.5 seconds off my time by switching from a x360 controller to a g27 wheel, at that chicane on the top of the crest was one of the key areas i was able to pick up speed due to being able to feel and correct the body movement of the car.

Gloomy
25-09-2017, 18:48
How many of you are experiencing motion sickness or eye strain with the rift? I am up in the air about it, how about using an H pattern shifter? Any issues with spacial awareness? I would love a rift but having no friends who have one, it makes it impossible to sample before I buy. I want to be sure I will like it as opposed to buying a new screen for my cockpit which I am ordering. Is the rift generally considered to be the best VR headset?

I've had no eye strain or motion sickness, I did feel a little weird during turns at first but it goes away. Everyone is different though some adjust faster than others. The immersion factor is unbeatable though, with a racing seat and wheel setup, you really feel like you're sitting in a car. I've yet to hear anyone not like it. Yes there is a slight resolution hit, it's not as bad as you would think though, up close everything is really clear, the interiors of the cars are awesome, just the further stuff is looks pixelated.

No issues with spacial awareness, the wheel is right in front of you, you can adjust you're positioning so everything matches up, it's a bit weird with the hshifter since the hands won't match up when you're shifting but I've had no issues doing it, I never looked at the shifter when shifting on a 2d screen either. I think you can turn the arms off so you just see the wheel but I like seeing the arms and body of the character.

Theres pluses and cons to both headsets, some like one over the other, I've never tried the vive, this is just from what I hear. I don't think you can go wrong either way. They're first gen headsets so it's not going to be perfect. I'm really looking forward to higher resolution screens and better gpu's to run them but I'm super happy with what we have now.

Reaper_7799
25-09-2017, 20:11
Good comments all around, I held off on the rift till it was on sale for $400 with the touch controllers because of the resolution and aliasing issues. I had/have 3 4K monitors in surround and a 40" samsung 4K for racing, so i didn't feel pushed. It's a much much different experience, even if you can't supersample enough, I only have 980ti sli and sli doesn't work with vr, so I'm limited in pushing the supersampling but being in the cockpit just makes the 3 screens seem so much less connected, even with the much higher resolution.

Now that I have the ffb and throttle issues straightened out, you can't replicate sliding through a corner at 100 mph plus in a z06 or any of the rwd high power cars with no aids and in total control...it's just not the same. They also revamped all of the cockpits...they look so much better than pc1 or assetto and really helps with the feeling of being in the cockpit and the driver positioning is a lot better now and you can really feel where the front of the car is on the track and how it behaves through the corners.

alitomr1979
26-09-2017, 03:03
Wow. Thank you all for the replies. I just placed the order fot the CSL Elite PS4 and cant wait for it to get here!! It will be here OCtober 12th, so, in the mean time I will stick to VR with the gamepad and will try to learn the tracks and so on.

For sure, VR is huge and really amazing. Supersampling does increase the image quality importantly.

Another question: Are you using the OC DEbug tool to supersample or the PC2 menu? Is ther a difference?

Gloomy
26-09-2017, 03:17
I'm using the tray tool. The slider in the menus kept bugging out on me, had a mind of its own.

alitomr1979
30-09-2017, 03:07
It is easy to be blown away by the feeling you get with PCars2 in VR... Oh well, I am there now: I dont like playing the game in a monitor. Its just not close to the same, and, besides, I lose 5 seconds consistently when I go from VR to TV. I flat out suck in 2D. Simply cant keep the car on track to save my life.

I cant wait for my CSL Elite PS4 to be delivered! I am still playing with the xbox controller!!

marcva
30-09-2017, 03:27
Not to threadjack, but is anyone using motion seat bases? 3k seems like a lot of money until you compare to a season of tracking a car. Vr plus a motion platform seems the way to go. Which ones are people using and how do they work?

sherpa25
30-09-2017, 06:05
....It's a much much different experience, even if you can't supersample enough, I only have 980ti sli and sli doesn't work with vr, so I'm limited in pushing the supersampling but being in the cockpit just makes the 3 screens seem so much less connected, even with the much higher resolution.....

Can you pls share (or PM) your settings? I'm still finding the optimum settings on my set and would like to compare, as we have the same GPU (though you using an i7). Thanks.

sherpa25
30-09-2017, 06:06
....It's a much much different experience, even if you can't supersample enough, I only have 980ti sli and sli doesn't work with vr, so I'm limited in pushing the supersampling but being in the cockpit just makes the 3 screens seem so much less connected, even with the much higher resolution.....

Can you pls share (or PM) your settings? I'm still finding the optimum settings on my set and would like to compare, as we have the same GPU (though you using an i7). Preferably also mentioning FPS with around 10AI on a certain track. Thanks.

alitomr1979
30-09-2017, 15:04
Not to threadjack, but is anyone using motion seat bases? 3k seems like a lot of money until you compare to a season of tracking a car. Vr plus a motion platform seems the way to go. Which ones are people using and how do they work?

SIM racing is expensive when you compare it to gaming... but when you compare it to actual racing it becomes easy to spend a few thousand dollars.

Do some research about VR and motion rigs. Some people have issues with them. The VR-motion platform do sound like the next best thing though.
/end threadjack


Do any of you try your times in the community events??

In VR I am being consistent in the vey low 1.30s, with 1:30.115 being my personal best. Still 9 seconds slower than the record, but when I go 2D, I cannot get below 1:40 to save my life! In fact, I cannot stay on track for two laps to save my life!

Maybe this is a good test...

alitomr1979
13-02-2018, 04:52
SIM racing is expensive when you compare it to gaming... but when you compare it to actual racing it becomes easy to spend a few thousand dollars.

Do some research about VR and motion rigs. Some people have issues with them. The VR-motion platform do sound like the next best thing though.
/end threadjack


Do any of you try your times in the community events??

In VR I am being consistent in the vey low 1.30s, with 1:30.115 being my personal best. Still 9 seconds slower than the record, but when I go 2D, I cannot get below 1:40 to save my life! In fact, I cannot stay on track for two laps to save my life!

Maybe this is a good test...

I googled the exact title of this thread and found this. I couldnt remember about posting this. LOL.

I received the CSL Elite PS4 and have spent like 4 months in GT Sport. I also bought the NExt Level Racing F1GT and only that one made me go almost three seconds faster in mostly all courses. It has been probably the biggest difference in terms of laptimes.

I went from an struggling C (fell to D in courses I didnt know) in GT Sport to A, B very high, in about two weeks.

Even though I spent a vey good time with my friends in GT Sport, PC, with this wheel, with VR and in the F1 position of this cockpit, is seriously something to be experienced!

I just ran one F1 race in hockemheinring and OMG. WOW. So real it's unreal! :D

Good times!! I just wish there were more online races and the kind of matchmaking that GT Sport has!

With GT Sport matchmaking, PC2 would be like the best thing since Coca Cola. SEriously

:D

John Hargreaves
13-02-2018, 05:16
Would you say it's possible to get a good simulation feeling from GTS on your rig? I enjoy GTS, but it very much feels like a videogame compared to PC2, but that must be partly due to me playing it on a controller rather than a wheel. I just wondered, if you give it every chance possible, how GTS stacks up as a believable driving simulation.

Cholton82
13-02-2018, 07:11
Would you say it's possible to get a good simulation feeling from GTS on your rig? I enjoy GTS, but it very much feels like a videogame compared to PC2, but that must be partly due to me playing it on a controller rather than a wheel. I just wondered, if you give it every chance possible, how GTS stacks up as a believable driving simulation.

Before I went over to the darkside and bought the One X I had a PS4 and bought GT Sport as curiosity got the better of me , I put a fair few hours in online and had some very good races and the matchmaking worked very well .
This was the first time I have played a GT game using my rig and If it wasn't for PCars I would of spent more time with it as I found it pretty decent , FFB was ok and passable and I found myself putting lap after lap in with the AMG GTR slipping the rear out and listening to it growl and the time just ran away with me so I must of been enjoying it .
It did feel like more of a game a very fun one I might add but a game none the less , There is a lot more to think about in Pcars and this is what I like as racing a car around a track isn't just about putting in the fastest lap again and again we have a certain degree of car management going on and this for me is where Pcars excels in comparison to other titles available on Console and this for me was very much lacking in GT Sport which tbh I expected.
For people with more time than me I'd say get it and enjoy it along side Pcars it's plenty of fun.

MartinMWWebb
13-02-2018, 08:04
I think VR and Wheel make it much easier to race because of the immersion and simply being able to look left/right at your opponents in a natural way and not with buttons.

I say this as i know i am not the fastest out there by a long shot, but i have actually recently been able to win some online races even on car/track combos i am not familiar with.

TorTorden
13-02-2018, 08:49
Personal preference of course.
But I see no point what so ever in playing a SIM without either.

Pcars2 has been the first SIM driving game I have spent more than two hours in.
Ever.
Primarily SMS made a SIM that feels almost good enough compared to driving an actual car.
But also VR and the wheel.

I would never even consider getting VR before a wheel.
It's not a matter of being faster.
Without I would not be playing at all.

John Hargreaves
13-02-2018, 12:22
Driving cars and flying helicopters/planes/space ships are the best things to do in VR imo. Each one alone is good, but put the two together and you have something really special.

ELAhrairah
13-02-2018, 13:43
Sometimes I log into an online race and just spectate at the trackside using VR. I switch locations using a hotkey on my steering wheel and now and then I see very good fights between real gamers. It is amazing and Liberty media if you're reading this: place 360 camera's around the track and give the viewers the chance to so this during real F1 races too. It's amazing.
Back to pcars2 and VR: I have a good steering wheel, a good sim rig and butt kickers strategically placed. Yes it made me faster, I hold a world record. Without VR I probably wouldn't. The vibrations, VR, steering wheel and last but not least the game itself make every single race very intense and simply a joy for every racing fan.

iggy
13-02-2018, 14:11
I don't do VR...

I'm way way faster with a wheel than I am with a controller... but that's mostly because I haven't practiced with controller at all. I did try a controller a month ago, and was absolutely horrible, so quickly gave up and went back to the wheel.

I know there are plenty of very fast people using controllers , so I'm not saying other's can't be faster with a controller...

MortICi
13-02-2018, 15:51
My friends always struggled with the wheel and flat screen, they couldn't really judge the speed or behavior of the car.

I put them in my rift and instantly felt at home, couldn't get them to not use the G25 with it.

I don't think the videos do it justice because you are still seeing the point of view on a flat screen, when in fact when the unit is on, you are IN the car.


Once you go VR barring any motion sickness or other physical ailments, there is just no way to go back to playing on a TV.

The loss of fidelity be damned, just no way. I am definitely faster and can easily consistently place top 5 without touching setups or anything. I can judge and push the car a lot more, nailing brake points is much easier and you can soft judge if you can go slightly hotter or bleed off the brakes better. I don't know, it just feels natural for some reason and I force myself to drive like I would in real life. Hitting a wall is terrifying sometimes, as is coming in hot on someone's ass unexpectedly.

Personally if you want to go VR at this stage its aged enough that new high fidelity headsets should be coming out, a Rift or OG Vive is just not worth it. The new MS MR headset are better but I support is lacking for OpenVR.

I did a 17 lap race last night in Bathurst at night in the Bentley GT3, it was glorious, pacing yourself, stalking the driver ahead to find their weak corners, edging mistakes and pushing them to panic all within mere inches of their bumper, with confidence.

banner77amc
13-02-2018, 19:05
I hope one day to try the VR so I can see if I can get even faster

John Hargreaves
13-02-2018, 19:08
Even if VR doesn't make you faster, you don't really care, as the immersion factor is so good. Having said that, it's hard to see how it wouldn't make you faster after a bit of practice. Simple things like being able to lean over in the cockpit and look down to see your wheel clipping the apex exactly, makes a big difference. You can certainly feel and catch slides much sooner, the brain is really receptive to that one.

alitomr1979
13-02-2018, 22:19
Would you say it's possible to get a good simulation feeling from GTS on your rig? I enjoy GTS, but it very much feels like a videogame compared to PC2, but that must be partly due to me playing it on a controller rather than a wheel. I just wondered, if you give it every chance possible, how GTS stacks up as a believable driving simulation.

John, I wrote a kinda long post responding to your question and for some reasonm the connection broke and it's all missed.

The short version: GT Sport feels like a game when compared to Project Cars 2. There is simply no comparisson. I wish there was, because I am now a sim racer and have always bought consoles only to play GRan Turismo, but they are now way behind the top titles. I have tried Raceroom, and it is absolutely great, I have tried, Assetto Corsa and the experience in VR is only second to PRoject Cars 2, simply awesome.

GRran Turismo Sport is way behind, specially when it comes to handling and the force feedback and what you feel in the wheel. I am deep inside waiting for thje update to inlude compatibility with the CSL ELite PS4, because the dullness I get (compared to PC2 and even the other games I mentioned) is kind of sad.

I have had a great time in these few months playing GRan Turismo Sport with friends, but coming back to PC2 a week ago has made me realized that when our games dried up and I stayed to chase the S license, I lost great time that i would have spent better playing PC2. There is simply no comparisson, imho.

Last night, even tired, I raced my first Formula 1 race in Hockeinheinring. With the F1GT cockpit in F1 position, the CSL Elite and OCulus, it was so amazing that I now want to start a career in iRacing just to get to the level of competition of the A class Formula they have there. Simply awesomeness. Everyone should try it. Absolutely fantastic!!

There you go, I wrote it all again!

alitomr1979
13-02-2018, 22:25
Personal preference of course.
But I see no point what so ever in playing a SIM without either.

Pcars2 has been the first SIM driving game I have spent more than two hours in.
Ever.
Primarily SMS made a SIM that feels almost good enough compared to driving an actual car.
But also VR and the wheel.

I would never even consider getting VR before a wheel.
It's not a matter of being faster.
Without I would not be playing at all.

Exactly!! I want to be faster of course, but if the price is leaving VR I would not pay it. LAst night in my first ever formula 1 race in PC2 mostly everybody was faster than me, but you know what? I didnt give a damn. I had a blast!!

And I even finished 7th out of 9 because I can be very consistent! :D