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hossa
25-09-2017, 17:16
Just had a friend (PC user) coming over and enjoying the PS4 version with G29 on raceseat.

He can now understand my frustration with this game. He wanted to win a career race (Nürburgring sprint) with mercedes evolution on AI 30. He had no chance and finished 7th with a 27sec gap to P1 after 3 rounds. On PC he plays with AI 80+

After this was my favourite: I got invited to silverstone (Mclaren F1, stormy weather). He couldn't make it farther than corner 3 where the car starts to skid and spin at 30 km/h first gear.

He quit playing, saying this game is ridiculous on PS4 and NO match with PC version.
FFB was horrible and AI in no way realistic. The game is not playable on PS4 pro

There are so many issues of that 70€, unfinished, outsourced version which does in no way justify the 20€ more that PS4 users had to pay in contrast to a more elaborate PC version. I don't think that sms will fix all the issues that are described in this forum, because they didn't fix them in pcars1 either.

PCars2 is, at the moment, the worst game that I've ever played on release in my more than 25 years of gaming.

Diablo944
25-09-2017, 19:17
The game is not playable on PS4 pro

There are so many issues of that 70€, unfinished, outsourced version which does in no way justify the 20€ more that PS4 users had to pay in contrast to a more elaborate PC version. I don't think that sms will fix all the issues that are described in this forum, because they didn't fix them in pcars1 either.

PCars2 is, at the moment, the worst game that I've ever played on release in my more than 25 years of gaming.

Worst game you ever played on release in 25 years? Wow, you have been lucky.

That said, i am truly hating pcars 2 right now on ps4. Pre release testing done by different people for pc and consoles has managed to create a situation where the ps4 version is crap (that's not saying pc users dont have issues too, just that somehow the ps4 problems came as a huge surprise to all apparently). On ps4 the T300 wheel has a deadzone wide enough to drive a ginetta through. I know wheel users make up a small portion of gamers, but seriously, the t300 is used by a lot of players on ps4 so getting that control wrong sucks. The simplified ffb options and loss of individual car settings for ffb mean that the wheel may never be as good as it was on pcars1, and thats even if they fix the deadzone. Handling is dubious, force feedback is not a patch on pcars 1. On first release pcars1 was also crap with lots of issues that needed fixing though so its not game over yet. I kind of hoped that after the rocky start to the original, the second rendition would be better out of the gate. But its most definitely not. My copy has been hurled to the back of the cupboard until its been patched, patched and repatched, so hopefully sometime in the next few months it will be worth the effort to dig back out. Of course by then gt sport will be out and if polyphony get things right then pcars can wait til next year for me. I am hugely disappointed with pcars 2 on ps4. I would rather have spent fifty quid on pcars 1 dlc to get similar stuff to the new game than have to be a bug tester all over again on a new product with more big flaws. Pcars 2 is currently a two steps forward one step back game. Its expanded to be more than pcars 1 was, but the problems, hiccups, bugs, issues it has brought with it are too much for me. I spent a couple of days trying to gel with the new game and just wasn't feeling it. Then I put pcars 1 in and played that (and my button box works in it btw, how the new game came out without button box support belies belief). Five minutes back on pcars one was all it took to decide to fling the new game into the sinbin. Its all well and good having the best physics, weather, track data, but if the gameplay is flawed then its on a road to nowhere. I know this is a personal rant, that what I think is 'off' isnt necessarily what others agree with. But in the first hour I found pit guys standing in walls, waving me out with only an arm a head and leg visible, vague handling, horrible wheel control, npc vehicles driving like they are in a demolition derby, traction issues, options we took for granted in pcars one now long gone (a non working button box is in that list of issues too). Yet somehow the people who supposedly ok'd it for release found no issues. The forum is lighting up with bug reports, glitches and issues, and although I agree that in this day and age its rare for a game to release without some bugs, much less one that has expanded its repertoir, but at least most titles get the basics right and play well enough at the start. I wish they had given it to people who played pcars before rather than whoever playtested it, at the moment I am guessing they are tetris grandmasters who last played a racing game when Daytona USA was in the arcades. How is the game supposed to achieve any parity when such a difference in testers exists. I have friends who like driveclub (I don't) , friends who use wheels (g29 and t300), friends who use gamepad with thumbstick and others who use tilt controls. If I was given the task of playtesting it would be on a ps4 pro with t300, shifter, upgraded 3 pedal set and a button box. Give it me on a pc and it would be with the same control setup. But give it one of my friends who uses nothing but a gamepad then none of my stuff would be a consideration. Then instead of a blanket playtest that encompassed all formats and brought a similar feel to all, we would have disparate entities deciding the best course to 'ideal'. Have 5 people draw 'a box with a circle in it' and chances are they will all be very different drawings.

Some people out there are glad to have the game as it is and play it til its fixed. Others are returning it or venting their spleens in here. I am giving it a couple of months to see how it goes later when its been patched up some. until then its a dead game, a bugged release and is at the time of wring, not worth wasting time on.

SnowLeopard
25-09-2017, 19:18
Strangely, I am comforted by having confirmation that the PC and PS4 versions feel completely different...
Can hardly wait for the fixes or even knowing when fixes will come (days? weeks?).

hossa
25-09-2017, 19:34
Totally agree diablo944. I'm back with pcars one. It feels right. I'm simply frustrated to have spend 70€ on a game that will and can't be played for the next couple of months. I never had a game in the last 25 years which didn't match its own basic standards (in racing it should be adequate taking of time and 'realistic' AI) GT5 on ps3 was crap, too but you could play it on day one. All these issues are way too much and sms / wmd haven't learned from the pitch of pcars1. They simply neglect(ed) ps4 (again).

stephensmattlee
25-09-2017, 19:53
Wow, I’m quite surprised to hear that there are major differences between the PC and console versions of the game. Even though I had a feeling there was (at least at this moment in time). Explains why PC players seem to be singing the games praises and yet console players seem to be much more mixed in their reactions.

Genuinely can’t believe that the console port of the game wasn’t tested properly or more thoroughly before release.
I do however have faith that in time tweaks and fixes will come through to balance the differences.

Siberian Tiger
25-09-2017, 20:01
Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)

There shouldn't be any Major differences between PC and Console. (Even if the Consoles have much less CPU/GPU Power).

There will be for sure Optimations in the next few Week/Months etc.

Underlaying FFB Issues on Consoles are allready beeing worked on. (As many other Things)

hossa
25-09-2017, 20:02
Wow, I’m quite surprised to hear that there are major differences between the PC and console versions of the game. Even though I had a feeling there was (at least at this moment in time). Explains why PC players seem to be singing the games praises and yet console players seem to be much more mixed in their reactions.

Genuinely can’t believe that the console port of the game wasn’t tested properly or more thoroughly before release.
I do however have faith that in time tweaks and fixes will come through to balance the differences.

The game was 'tested' by third party companies. Not sms / wmd themselves. But nobody obviously experienced any major issues... But we do after a couple of hours gaming. Something's clearly wrong here

hossa
25-09-2017, 20:08
Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)

There shouldn't be any Major differences between PC and Console. (Even if the Consoles have much less CPU/GPU Power).

There will be for sure Optimations in the next few Week/Months etc.

Underlaying FFB Issues on Consoles are allready beeing worked on. (As many other Things)

Sorry, sir. But there clearly ARE MAJOR differences. neither i nor my friend could believe it but everything seems to be different: ffb, career races, AI. I had the direct comparison today and the both of us have played pcars one for hundreds of hours with decent equipment (wheels, seats) at more or less the same level. Ps4 version can't be played properly and is full of inconsistencies

SnowLeopard
25-09-2017, 20:43
Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)

There shouldn't be any Major differences between PC and Console. (Even if the Consoles have much less CPU/GPU Power).

There will be for sure Optimations in the next few Week/Months etc.

Underlying FFB Issues on Consoles are allready beeing worked on. (As many other Things)

The obvious problem with outsourcing Q&A is what and how they are told to test. If they didn't have a proper basis for comparison, it's no surprise the testers checked the okay box on while going through their checklist. Also, in hindsight, wasn't the decision to not do any in-house testing at all a rather awful one?
I am somewhat shocked you don't have a playroom with each platform available with a variety of wheels and controllers available just for employee break time!!
Major differences. Isn't total lack of UDP telemetry on consoles major? Honestly, I would NOT own it right now had I known this feature was not included. As FFB and general wheel feel, that is also a major difference but which probably is the result of a very minor difference -- could be as simple as the base value for one critical variable that makes PC version FFB work fine and console not (because of constant over- or under-powering of FFB?).

Going forward, I wish they could release fixes as they become ready instead of waiting for a dozen fixes to be released all at once. In the meantime, I can still enjoy the other racing game that was released last month.

SenorPez
25-09-2017, 20:54
So far I'm glad I didn't preorder. My long streak of only buying odd-numbered releases of racing game series games is currently set to continue.

Professional QA doesn't mean good QA. Based on what I've read, seen, watched, and heard, the QA used for the PS4 version choose "fast and cheap" and not "good" from the triangle-of-development.

And don't you dare tell me there's no major differences between the console and PC versions. As an avid developer and supporter of the 3rd party apps, the lack of UDP broadcast at release combined with absolutely no communication that it wouldn't be there is almost unforgivable. Especially, again, combined with the significant problems being reported.

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 05:08
EDIT: non-constructive comments like "this is lame" were (and will be deleted). Refrain to make them, please.

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 05:29
Thread was closed by accident. Reopened.

hossa
26-09-2017, 05:35
Ok. Although i didn't state 'this is lame' but was talking about the explanations and excuses of the develeoper. But fair enough

Shepard2603
26-09-2017, 05:38
The game was 'tested' by third party companies. Not sms / wmd themselves.
Due to business politics of Sony and Microsoft, WMD was not allowed to test the console builds. Many many people over at WMD asked several times for these builds, but they got a no-go.

hossa
26-09-2017, 05:47
Due to business politics of Sony and Microsoft, WMD was not allowed to test the console builds. Many many people over at WMD asked several times for these builds, but they got a no-go.

I really don't want to sound rude but NOW we know this and wmd / Sms are stating this clearly. Wouldn't it be fair for the customers to have known this BEFORE release? sms was always talking about pcars2 in general and every ps4 user was so looking forward to it after pcars1. However, sms was obviously solely talking about PC version. In no way could the ps4 gamers imagine that there might be a (non-graphic related) difference between the versions at all, let alone these major issues

Konan
26-09-2017, 05:52
I really don't want to sound rude but NOW we know this and wmd / Sms are stating this clearly. Wouldn't it be fair for the customers to have known this BEFORE release? sms was always talking about pcars2 in general and every ps4 user was so looking forward to it after pcars1. In no way could the ps4 gamers imagine that there might be a difference between the versions, let alone these major issues

That's because SMS (and us WMD2 Ps4 owners) were in the understanding that Ps4 beta testing was still a possibility...
It was only up to late in the development that it became apparent it wouldn't happen...

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 06:05
OK I think this uninformed finger-pointing and speculation needs to stop.

If SMS decided to go with professional 3rd-party console testing then they expected certain quality from that just like when any other developer would hire them. The fact that WMD wasn't involved in console testing is of no importance since WMD is made up of enthusiastic volunteers who test if available and capable on PC. WMD is not a guarantee for watertight testing, so communicating up-front to potential customers that WMD didn't test consoles doesn't tell anyone anything. There can be many different reasons why things went different on consoles, many of them unrelated to who tested what.

As for UDP missing on consoles, it will be enabled in an upcoming patch.

hossa
26-09-2017, 08:12
That's because SMS (and us WMD2 Ps4 owners) were in the understanding that Ps4 beta testing was still a possibility...
It was only up to late in the development that it became apparent it wouldn't happen...

Now i got it. Thanks for the explanation

superdry
26-09-2017, 08:26
In a constructive sense, I think consumers should have been informed that PS4 beta testing wasn't going to happen which would allow them to make an informed choice whether or not to purchase this game on day 1, or wait until later on in the patching cycle to invest in the game. I believe this would have been a fair thing to do, but perhaps the commercial reasons wouldn't allow this.

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 08:28
In a constructive sense, I think consumers should have been informed that PS4 beta testing wasn't going to happen which would allow them to make an informed choice whether or not to purchase this game on day 1, or wait until later on in the patching cycle to invest in the game. I believe this would have been a fair thing to do, but perhaps the commercial reasons wouldn't allow this.
Beta testing did happen on PS4, just not through WMD.

Exoil
26-09-2017, 08:50
Thread was closed by accident. Reopened.

This was lame ;)

L86S18K15
26-09-2017, 08:59
Beta testing did happen on PS4, just not through WMD.

Should have tested the Beta testers. Also, you shouldnt need Beta testers to see that the same bugs and glitches got carried over from Pcars1 to Pcars2. Camera view changing when starting new races, wich forces you to assign a button for it. Horrible glitches when people join or leave a lobby (this actually got worse compared to Pcars1). Apart from all the new bugs and glitches, this is unforgivable in my opinion. This whole outsourcing of the testing excuse doesnt go up if you are selling the game as finished for 60/70 Euro's. It is not worth it in this state and someone at the top of SMS should have realized this. I can not believe no one knew it was gonna be this bad on ps4. Really no one put the disc in and tried for a day or two before going gold? Some modesty and honesty would be in place, or better just a straight up delay of release. I understand that Bandai Namco has a part in this too, but at least for me Project Cars 2 has made my faith and thrust in SMS as a company vanish into thin air. This was one of my most aticipated games in the lifetime of the ps4, by far the most when it comes to racing games, unfortunatly its uninstalled after one long weekend. I really hope you guys can set this straight, there is so much potential, but potential means absolutely nothing at this moment.
There can be reasons for it beeing the way it is, and they can all be valid, but that changes nothing in the massive dissapointment that i and probably many others have experienced the last few days.
And that feeling can not be patched.

FreefallRLC
26-09-2017, 10:02
He wanted to win a career race (Nürburgring sprint) with mercedes evolution on AI 30. He had no chance and finished 7th with a 27sec gap to P1 after 3 rounds. On PC he plays with AI 80+

OK, this explains and it´s not me. I had no problems with PC1 or Assetto. But I´m stuck in this Career race at the moment too. And it´s only second on a car that drived very easy in PC1.
Yesterday I tried like 6 or 7 times till I frustrated gave up when you are spinning out in the last couple laps all the time. I had zero chance on normal settings. With AI and agression set to around 30 I was at least able to stay in the top 5. But I had to drive my car like on raw eggs while the AI seems to drive like on rails. Same car overtakes me on full speed, same car overtakes me on the grass in corners. After corners they boost away like nothing. ridiculous.

Civic
26-09-2017, 10:14
The AI are remarkable. It is constantly amazing how they can hold so much speed without the slightest wobble in sections you must walk on egg shells but then go so slow in a easy section or even a straight line and you can drive around them like they are standing still. It's also always amazing how they can hold the outside line on a corner and still go faster than a perfect racing line and also finish the corner in the middle of the track not the outside. And this is on a setting of only 75 where they should be running a stock setup.

They are also remarkably stupid, you can run the inside defensive line the whole way down a straight and sure enough they will still run into the back of you as if you were on the other line and they went for a divebomb.

hossa
26-09-2017, 10:34
OK, this explains and it´s not me. I had no problems with PC1 or Assetto. But I´m stuck in this Career race at the moment too. And it´s only second on a car that drived very easy in PC1.
Yesterday I tried like 6 or 7 times till I frustrated gave up when you are spinning out in the last couple laps all the time. I had zero chance on normal settings. With AI and agression set to around 30 I was at least able to stay in the top 5. But I had to drive my car like on raw eggs while the AI seems to drive like on rails. Same car overtakes me on full speed, same car overtakes me on the grass in corners. After corners they boost away like nothing. ridiculous.

And that's exactly why I opened this thread. You simply can't win certain races, no matter what setting you use for AI. I tried with AI 0 and couldn't win due to these tremendous issues of the game. AI is set randomly and winning or losing pure chance. I opened this thread because up to then almost nobody seemed to have experienced these issues.

The same goes for qualifying: You are on P1 skip to the end of Q session and end up last. Restarting qualifying and racing the same time again and waiting to the end of session makes you start P1, allegedly. However, when I continued to the race I started last. Words couldn't describe my frustration which is why I asked a PC user to come over, because he kept on mocking my driving skills - he said the game was brilliant and a true improvement to pcars1 on PC with only minor issues. He said I was exaggerating and simply too slow, just needed the right setup. After one hour of setting ffb and trying he gave up on the aforementioned races in career on my ps4 version: Quotation: "that's ridiculous" (in German)

I keep on repeating myself but this game on ps4pro is unplayable and incomparable to PC version and I wouldn't have preordered it if I had known all these issues. I wanted to check if others have experienced the same problems so far.

FreefallRLC
26-09-2017, 10:50
True. There is A LOT to fix.
PC1 was very well playable. Even though I learned Assetto physics are better and it was nice that they tried to implement some Assetto into PC. But it turned out to become unplayable. The cars have way too less tracktion (even set on full) and tires skidding and sliding like nuts.
Try The Aventador on Nordschleife. In Assetto very nice to drive and realistic breaking/tracktion. In PC2 it leels like zero driving aids with old tires in rain.
Worst is snow driving. The AI drives like in normal dry conditions and I don´t even manage to slow start driving or gently break without spinning 180 degrees

Bealdor
26-09-2017, 10:53
Even though I learned Assetto physics are better and it was nice that they tried to implement some Assetto into PC.

This couldn't be further from the truth, really.
AC was never the benchmark during development, real life was/is.

Civic
26-09-2017, 11:21
True. There is A LOT to fix.
PC1 was very well playable. Even though I learned Assetto physics are better and it was nice that they tried to implement some Assetto into PC. But it turned out to become unplayable. The cars have way too less tracktion (even set on full) and tires skidding and sliding like nuts.
Try The Aventador on Nordschleife. In Assetto very nice to drive and realistic breaking/tracktion. In PC2 it leels like zero driving aids with old tires in rain.
Worst is snow driving. The AI drives like in normal dry conditions and I don´t even manage to slow start driving or gently break without spinning 180 degrees

I'm not about to excuse all the nonsense going on over here in PC land but I keep seeing statements like this about AC and it's crazy, it makes me wonder how many people actually drive cars or even have a basic grasp on physics. AC is a very fun sim and does a lot right but it is seriously flawed. There is a serious reverse physics issue that is present in many cars. I can only assume there is something in the code that makes weight shift work back to front but in AC when your car wont turn in you simply accelerate and it magically goes where ever you point it. This is the opposite of reality. On corner entry your weight is forward and if your tyres can't bite accelerating makes that worse by unloading the tyres in real life, but in AC accelerating magically gives the front tyres grip.

The_Flurk
26-09-2017, 11:24
There's no question about the game being beta tested, but clearly something went critically wrong during that phase.

The PS4 version is unplayable, period.
That means testing has been conducted in a very insufficient way.
If even the gameplay differences are this huge (I'm not even talking bugs or very bad FFB), comparing PS4 to PC, then clearly some people, some team or someone made big mistakes and/or is very incompetent.

It's very sad that we all, as huge SMS/pcars fans posting to this forum, got played by this incompetence. I personally feel very much abandoned by SMS (in the end I'm glad there's at least some occasional response). I don't mean to start ranting about it, all I'm asking is that you acknowledge and start working pro-actively (test yourself and proactively solve bugs you discovered yourself, don't wait for us to post all the crap) on the PS4 version, because incompetence has killed the initial release. There's still time to fix this, but I hope the whole dev team realizes it's not as much as months, as officially stated on this forum a few times. I am pretty sure if a game stay on the shelf for two weeks, there's a very high chance it'll stay there for the rest of its days.

hossa
26-09-2017, 11:46
The PS4 version is unplayable,period

incompetence has killed the initial release.

Sad but true

rmboss
26-09-2017, 11:54
Sad but true


I have give up today and selling my copy with hope that the potential buyer never heard about all this !

Will wait for Gran Turismo and there is reason why they taking time to put final product on the shelves.

Shame on you WMD but the PC2 on PS4 is totally big mistake !

Konan
26-09-2017, 12:06
I have give up today and selling my copy with hope that the potential buyer never heard about all this !

Will wait for Gran Turismo and there is reason why they taking time to put final product on the shelves.

Shame on you WMD but the PC2 on PS4 is totally big mistake !

It is not...some people (like me) do not have the issues reported everywhere...doesn't mean they don't exist...just not for everyone...

punkdog69
26-09-2017, 12:10
Yes there are some silly Bugs in the PS4 release, that should not be there.
But we have to keep in mind that ps4 release is not on the same Patchlevel as the PC Version.
So lets wait for the next Patch to be released and I'm sure things will look different than now.

rmboss
26-09-2017, 12:15
It is not...some people (like me) do not have the issues reported everywhere...doesn't mean they don't exist...just not for everyone...

I don’t get it how come 1 person can have problems and other no, on the same platform from game on a disc ?

If my hdmi cable was bad or my tv 60 yrs old then yes but this is not the case

I think the issues are for everyone just some ppl did not notice them

Konan
26-09-2017, 12:20
I don’t get it how come 1 person can have problems and other no, on the same platform from game on a disc ?

If my hdmi cable was bad or my tv 60 yrs old then yes but this is not the case

I think the issues are for everyone just some ppl did not notice them

Some of those issues mentioned are hardly unnoticeable...there is a difference between ps4 and ps4 pro for starters so,it's not that unusual that one person has other/less issues than another on the same platform...
Happened with Pcars1...many people hardly had issues at all...

porkovich
26-09-2017, 12:28
Ok so what to expect now, do we wait for a patch that updates the game to PC level, or we are just playing like that, because that's that happened with PC1. I really cannot understand how the game can be so different on two platforms, not graphics or performance wise, but in FFB feelings, AI level, missing support. How can a game be developed from one studio and be on different levels at launch day ?

TassieDevil
26-09-2017, 12:32
I think the so called new tyre model in PC2 is absolute crap on PS4, and the physics feel dead compared to PC1. A lot of cars that I've tried so far want to turn them selves around at the slightest amount of braking even in a straight line, and some manual geared cars won't downshift without some throttle no matter how easy I let the clutch out. Very disappointed with the PS4 version at this stage and can't imagine that tyre and car handling would be improved in a patch, I really just don't like playing it at the moment.

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 12:37
I think the so called new tyre model in PC2 is absolute crap on PS4, and the physics feel dead compared to PC1. A lot of cars that I've tried so far want to turn them selves around at the slightest amount of braking even in a straight line, and some manual geared cars won't downshift without some throttle no matter how easy I let the clutch out. Very disappointed with the PS4 version at this stage and can't imagine that tyre and car handling would be improved in a patch, I really just don't like playing it at the moment.

What controller are you using?

vince34750
26-09-2017, 12:39
OK I think this uninformed finger-pointing and speculation needs to stop.
As for UDP missing on consoles, it will be enabled in an upcoming patch.

Good news. Thanks. Together with keyboard/button box ? Any ETA for the patch ?
I'm also quite disappointed by the overall quality of PC2 (running a PS4 Pro, firmware 5.0 beta6). But this is becoming more and more usual in gaming world : AC was quite bad at the beginning. Then patches corrected massive screen tearing, bad textures, clipping,.... PC1 also got better and better (UDP, handling, force feedback,...)
Happened also to be the opposite : Batman Arkham Night PC version (not done by its native studio, but an external company) was drawn back, as it was completely unplayable on PC. One thing in common: as soon as an external company is in charged of porting to another platform, problems arise. Same applies when you externalize QA (tried this in previous job, but results were not really upto the expectations)
I have the feeling PC2 wanted to be out before GT sport, Forza 7 and other folks; but thats my thoughts. Dont know if its a good calculation though.
Lets hope SMS reacts positively and adresses complaints in a timely manner

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 12:42
Good news. Thanks. Together with keyboard/button box ? Any ETA for the patch ?

No idea what's the status of button box/keyboard support, unfortunately. Next patch should be matter of a couple of days, according to Ian Bell.

rmboss
26-09-2017, 12:44
Some of those issues mentioned are hardly unnoticeable...there is a difference between ps4 and ps4 pro for starters so,it's not that unusual that one person has other/less issues than another on the same platform...
Happened with Pcars1...many people hardly had issues at all...

Saying same platform I was thinking of ps4 only cause there are ppl
here who saying they have no problems.

So my disc is an manufactured with error or others are blind (no offences)

The all graphics in the game is bad !

FreefallRLC
26-09-2017, 12:50
Thing is; I´m quite sure that SMS will fix most problems with coming patches. It´s just that everyone was looking forward to play the game and now it´s not well playable/ no fun/ annoying unfair.
PC1 had problems in the beginning as well. But was FAR from having as many bugs and flaws like PC2 has now. Even after a 13 GB day one patch. Still so many obvious bugs that you can say without shame the game came out too early. I guess they were under stress to release it before GT Sport. understandable but for the players still sucks.

hossa
26-09-2017, 12:54
So my disc is an manufactured with error or others are blind (no offences)



i'm using the digital version straight from ps store and i'm suffering from all kinds of issues that you can think of - not graphic related

Civic
26-09-2017, 12:59
Ok so what to expect now, do we wait for a patch that updates the game to PC level, or we are just playing like that, because that's that happened with PC1. I really cannot understand how the game can be so different on two platforms, not graphics or performance wise, but in FFB feelings, AI level, missing support. How can a game be developed from one studio and be on different levels at launch day ?

No dev is going to tell you this but a console sim running V-sync can never feel like a PC sim running a high frame rate on a gaming monitor.

It's why I have found sim physics discussions so frustrating over the years, the vast majority of people who have an opinion do not understand how settings completely change perception in car games.

Input lag is a critical component to game play, feeling and how easy the game is. If all other things are the same just the additional input lag of a console will make the game harder. But if you get a guy on a gaming monitor with a super high FPS and a low but realistic FOV and perspective the game will be very easy for him and it is like comparing a normal person and a person who has ESP. Or perhaps a sober person with an intoxicated person is a better comparison. So keep in mind not only does the console version suffer from a relatively low frame rate and much higher input lag in the game itself, people on console tend to play on TV's that are much slower than even a cheap Acer monitor and people on consoles usually play with a very bad FOV setting. Trying to play certain other sims like that would have you declaring they are impossible and completely unrealistic.

Just sit in the car and swing your wheel rapidly side to side. Notice how far the wheel in game is behind your movement? On a decent PC the stuff on screen will match your own movement with the human eye. Once you understand that you should understand that the guy on the PC gets to see and react to everything sooner. That makes driving easier and not only results in more consistency but also faster lap times.

Once you understand all that it might become clear why console is a superior competitive gaming platform and why anyone requesting cross platform play for competitive gaming is a fool. On the PC side to be competitive with someone who has the best gear you must also have the best gear. Console might be slightly inferior but it is level. Introduce cross platform play and you can't even level the playing field with an FPS cap, PC will always have the advantage.

hossa
26-09-2017, 13:09
Nobody ever questioned the advantages of PC over consoles concerning input lag, graphics etc. AI and the many issues however have in my humble opinion nothing to do with the input-inferiority of consoles

slowGamer
26-09-2017, 18:50
Thing is; I´m quite sure that SMS will fix most problems with coming patches. It´s just that everyone was looking forward to play the game and now

Exactly. I'm not paying full price to get a bad experience, which this was on Day 1. I'm not going to buy another sms game new. I like the game, so much on offer, but I am a beta tester. Not cool.

hossa
26-09-2017, 19:37
Found some pretty useful tip in another thread i was following.


I figured out last night that you have to select "default set up" every time you go to drive a new car, otherwise it will load the setup for the last car you drove.

This really helped a lot! I drive mercedes amg evo and was wondering why the setup (only changed some pressure, fuel and ABS) was saved under 'dallara ...'. However, restoring default setup does not really work because the old profile still was saved under ' dallara...'. that's why i deleted career, so that all setups for the cars which i had used befor would be deleted. I started career group A championship again and drove the very same race. the standard setup was now called 'mercedes benz ...' - the right one. This time I didn't change a single thing in the setup! It really was a major difference! I still couldn reach P1 by any means but comfortably finished P3 with a 7 seconds gap to P1 instead of 27 seconds on P7. AI was still too fast and my car no match on the straights but also ffb felt WAY better! So please sms and wmd: maybe the setup is the starting point for refurbishments. my tip for the other ps4 gamers with AI and control issues: reset any setups and make sure that the standard setup is reinstalled - don't change anything there. Maybe it helps you a little bit

FreefallRLC
26-09-2017, 21:23
About that Mercedes AMG EVO on Nürburgring Sprint Problem again: I had serious Problem with driving it too like earlier mentioned. But loading Default Settings first and then lowering the tire pressure about 0.05 -0.1 really made the car MUCH more driveable and the grip is much better.

Civic
26-09-2017, 21:44
Nobody ever questioned the advantages of PC over consoles concerning input lag, graphics etc. AI and the many issues however have in my humble opinion nothing to do with the input-inferiority of consoles

I'm not debating the issues in the AI and wasn't trying to explain them but that isn't all he spoke about in his post and I was just explaining why console will always feel different and always be harder on console if you play the same sim on PC and console. If you want to accurately test the similarity or difference between PC and console versions you should turn on v-sync in the pc version and cap your FPS at 60 and play on the same display with the same settings. Even then there will be minor differences due to processing but anything else is an apple to oranges comparison.

slowGamer
27-09-2017, 03:01
About that Mercedes AMG EVO on Nürburgring Sprint Problem again: I had serious Problem with driving it too like earlier mentioned. But loading Default Settings first and then lowering the tire pressure about 0.05 -0.1 really made the car MUCH more driveable and the grip is much better.

Wait, are you serious? Applying the setup from another car to a NEW car would be a serious bug. It does not make any sense to do this.

I have noticed my qualifying fuel loads carry on to another car, which worried me. But to hear that the entire setup might be applied is kind of crazy.

And the 'fix' is to delete my careers?

MYSTYKRACER
27-09-2017, 05:49
No dev is going to tell you this but a console sim running V-sync can never feel like a PC sim running a high frame rate on a gaming monitor.

It's why I have found sim physics discussions so frustrating over the years, the vast majority of people who have an opinion do not understand how settings completely change perception in car games.

Input lag is a critical component to game play, feeling and how easy the game is. If all other things are the same just the additional input lag of a console will make the game harder. But if you get a guy on a gaming monitor with a super high FPS and a low but realistic FOV and perspective the game will be very easy for him and it is like comparing a normal person and a person who has ESP. Or perhaps a sober person with an intoxicated person is a better comparison. So keep in mind not only does the console version suffer from a relatively low frame rate and much higher input lag in the game itself, people on console tend to play on TV's that are much slower than even a cheap Acer monitor and people on consoles usually play with a very bad FOV setting. Trying to play certain other sims like that would have you declaring they are impossible and completely unrealistic.

Just sit in the car and swing your wheel rapidly side to side. Notice how far the wheel in game is behind your movement? On a decent PC the stuff on screen will match your own movement with the human eye. Once you understand that you should understand that the guy on the PC gets to see and react to everything sooner. That makes driving easier and not only results in more consistency but also faster lap times.

Once you understand all that it might become clear why console is a superior competitive gaming platform and why anyone requesting cross platform play for competitive gaming is a fool. On the PC side to be competitive with someone who has the best gear you must also have the best gear. Console might be slightly inferior but it is level. Introduce cross platform play and you can't even level the playing field with an FPS cap, PC will always have the advantage.

This is pretty well stated and I don't disagree w/ it but I think it also hints at why some people shy away from PC gaming. From what I've seen the whole "having the best equipment" aspect can turn into a very expensive arms race by itself. At least when you're on the consoles like you say the equipment side is relatively level ( we won't go into the differences in peripherals ) and you only have to worry about upgrading your hardware every 3 - 5 years or whatever the manufacturers cycle happens to be.

hossa
27-09-2017, 06:18
I have noticed my qualifying fuel loads carry on to another car, which worried me. But to hear that the entire setup might be applied is kind of crazy.

And the 'fix' is to delete my careers?

For me it worked - at least for the way the cars are handling. I first got worried when suddenly the setup for my GT3 car was called "renault clio" because I drove clio cup before and changed something in its setup. The GT3 car didn't feel like a car at all. After this, before starting races, I checked the setups and in 8 out of 10 cases the setups were called "Dallara ..." because of that car that very which i used before. As you've mentioned: the fuel was another point to become sceptical.

So I reset career. When I checked the setups before the first races, they really were called "Mercedes" or "Nissan.." etc. However you MUST NOT change ANYTHING in these standard setups. Whenever I did the game asked me to save the game under the name "dallara..." again instead of "Mercedes" etc. This "Dallara" setup would be the standard setup for all the upcoming cars. That was my experience and I've tested for 3 different cars after resetting.

As I said it helps in terms of handling and ffb, AI still is random but thanks to the correct (default) setup for the cars not that hard to challenge. (winning is still pure chance)
A PC version user was wondering why there was no "default setup" listed for each car on ps4. He said, he always had one or two default setups listed as well as his adjusted setup.

SMS should really look at setups and the way they are saved.

Sankyo
27-09-2017, 06:39
Wait, are you serious? Applying the setup from another car to a NEW car would be a serious bug. It does not make any sense to do this.

It's a bug, and will be fixed with the upcoming patch.

FreefallRLC
27-09-2017, 08:31
Wonder when we can expect to see a first patch...

Bealdor
27-09-2017, 08:35
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53098-But!-one-patch-it-s-on-working-!!&p=1369915&viewfull=1#post1369915

Civic
27-09-2017, 08:36
This is pretty well stated and I don't disagree w/ it but I think it also hints at why some people shy away from PC gaming. From what I've seen the whole "having the best equipment" aspect can turn into a very expensive arms race by itself. At least when you're on the consoles like you say the equipment side is relatively level ( we won't go into the differences in peripherals ) and you only have to worry about upgrading your hardware every 3 - 5 years or whatever the manufacturers cycle happens to be.

That's why I want this game to be good on PS4. I'm over PC racing, I've been waiting a long time for a real racing sim on console, I just really want this game fixed and finished so I can start racing again.

The only real problem I have with racing on a console is my eyes. Sitting that close to a monitor is not doing my eyes any favours. I've read VR doesn't adversely effect vision so I'd like to race in VR and since I was a child I dreamt of racing in VR so I've been waiting on this for about 30 years. I'm disappointed in Sony's implementation, I was really hoping for VR racing on console. It will probably be on Xbox but not as many people play on Xbox and if they bring cross platform play to Xbox I wouldn't be interested.

Civic
27-09-2017, 08:44
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53098-But!-one-patch-it-s-on-working-!!&p=1369915&viewfull=1#post1369915

Oh wow the OP, is that even a language.

MYSTYKRACER
27-09-2017, 09:32
That's why I want this game to be good on PS4. I'm over PC racing, I've been waiting a long time for a real racing sim on console, I just really want this game fixed and finished so I can start racing again.

The only real problem I have with racing on a console is my eyes. Sitting that close to a monitor is not doing my eyes any favours. I've read VR doesn't adversely effect vision so I'd like to race in VR and since I was a child I dreamt of racing in VR so I've been waiting on this for about 30 years. I'm disappointed in Sony's implementation, I was really hoping for VR racing on console. It will probably be on Xbox but not as many people play on Xbox and if they bring cross platform play to Xbox I wouldn't be interested.

:eagerness:

Your probably gonna have to do what many of us do, get a big honkin' 60"+ hi def tv / monitor and a wheel stand so you can sit back a little ways. Having a surround sound capable receiver is pretty mega too if the in-game audio is mixed correctly. I've been a little reticent about the whole vr thing only b/c I think my wife will take pictures of me looking goofy in a vr headset and put it on social media! LOL!

MYSTYKRACER
27-09-2017, 09:35
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53098-But!-one-patch-it-s-on-working-!!&p=1369915&viewfull=1#post1369915

Is the "Day 1" patch everyone keeps talking about only on PC b/c I've not seen anything on PS4 yet?

Sankyo
27-09-2017, 09:41
Is the "Day 1" patch everyone keeps talking about only on PC b/c I've not seen anything on PS4 yet?

You should be on the Day 1 patch already. You can see the build number you're running on the lower right of the screen in the main menu (I think, not sure on console).

Bealdor
27-09-2017, 09:42
Is the "Day 1" patch everyone keeps talking about only on PC b/c I've not seen anything on PS4 yet?

If you own the digital version you alreday got it with the first download. (v 1.03)
Should be Build 842.

Zenzic
27-09-2017, 09:43
I think, not sure on console.

Yep, it's there on console too.

steve30x
27-09-2017, 10:03
Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)

There shouldn't be any Major differences between PC and Console. (Even if the Consoles have much less CPU/GPU Power).

There will be for sure Optimations in the next few Week/Months etc.

Underlaying FFB Issues on Consoles are allready beeing worked on. (As many other Things)They were far from professional. I can too confirm that the PS4 version is a whole lot different in physics and FFB compared to the PC version.

You are right there shouldn't be any major differences but there is. I own PCars 2 on PC and my brother owns it on PS4. We tried our best to play it on PS4 but the cars handle extremely badly on PS4 while the cars handle like they should on PC. Also on PS4 the FFB is almost non existent

I am wondering did these so called professional testers even use a steering wheel , did they turn off driving aids at all? I am extremely doubtful these so called professionals are non professionals that just wanted early access to the game without even testing it properly.

Sankyo
27-09-2017, 10:06
They were far from professional. I can too confirm that the PS4 version is a whole lot different in physics and FFB compared to the PC version.

You are right there shouldn't be any major differences but there is. I own PCars 2 on PC and my brother owns it on PS4. We tried our best to play it on PS4 but the cars handle extremely badly on PS4 while the cars handle like they should on PC. Also on PS4 the FFB is almost non existent

I am wondering did these so called professional testers even use a steering wheel , did they turn off driving aids at all? I am extremely doubtful these so called professionals are non professionals that just wanted early access to the game without even testing it properly.
We know that there are controller issues on PS4 which probably explain all of the handling differences that you mention. There are no physics modeling differences between PC and PS4.

Bealdor
27-09-2017, 10:20
They were far from professional. I can too confirm that the PS4 version is a whole lot different in physics and FFB compared to the PC version.

You are right there shouldn't be any major differences but there is. I own PCars 2 on PC and my brother owns it on PS4. We tried our best to play it on PS4 but the cars handle extremely badly on PS4 while the cars handle like they should on PC. Also on PS4 the FFB is almost non existent

I am wondering did these so called professional testers even use a steering wheel , did they turn off driving aids at all? I am extremely doubtful these so called professionals are non professionals that just wanted early access to the game without even testing it properly.

The vehicle physics are exactly the same on all platforms. The FFB is handled differently because the communication between wheel and console varies slightly between the different platforms.

steve30x
27-09-2017, 10:22
We know that there are controller issues on PS4 which probably explain all of the handling differences that you mention. There are no physics modeling differences between PC and PS4.

Well the tyre physics feel different on PS4. Its not a controller issue. When we use slicks the car drives like its on ice on the Formula rookie. Then when we use rain tyres on the Formula rook on the same track and same track conditions the car is almost glued to the road. I don't know how you can put that down to controller issues. Also we were using a Thrustmaster T150. On PC with the same car and slicks on the same track and track conditions the car handles like it should. Unless the slicks have different control inputs to rain tyres on PS4 then its a tyre physics problem.


The vehicle physics are exactly the same on all platforms. The FFB is handled differently because the communication between wheel and console varies slightly between the different platforms.

I'm not trying to be rude here but I wish I could bring you gyuys here and bring my brothers PS4 here so that you guys could test for yourselves. Theres a massive difference between the cars handle on PC with slick tyres compared to the way the car handle with slicks on PS4.

The_Flurk
27-09-2017, 10:26
We know that there are controller issues on PS4 which probably explain all of the handling differences that you mention. There are no physics modeling differences between PC and PS4.

That makes it even worse because now you're admitting the FFB is that bad that it actually makes you think the game's physics are different.
Which on its turn makes it even more frustrating, because this means the steering wheels have not been tested at all (except maybe 1 or 2 models)...?!?!
Yet we have been told "Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)".
Professional?! Oh please guys... They were incompetent to say the least and SMS failed to manage the issue or probably even notice it prior to release. It would be nice if someone admits that huge mistakes have been made regarding the PS4 (testing).

Now the majority of PS4 steering wheel gamers have a copy of the game that's simply unplayable. That is hugely frustrating, and even more so if you are a big fan of the series who bought a steering wheel, also for all the upcoming racing titles on PS4 (CSLE PS4) and deliberately didn't not buy the PC version because you're thinking "what the hell, I don't care about graphics, the gameplay will be the same.". Guess not...

Bealdor
27-09-2017, 10:41
Well the tyre physics feel different on PS4. Its not a controller issue. When we use slicks the car drives like its on ice on the Formula rookie. Then when we use rain tyres on the Formula rook on the same track and same track conditions the car is almost glued to the road. I don't know how you can put that down to controller issues. Also we were using a Thrustmaster T150. On PC with the same car and slicks on the same track and track conditions the car handles like it should. Unless the slicks have different control inputs to rain tyres on PS4 then its a tyre physics problem.

The FRookie slicks have an issue that will be fixed soon, but it's present on all platforms.

steve30x
27-09-2017, 10:44
The FRookie slicks have an issue that will be fixed soon, but it's present on all platforms.I don't have any issue with the slicks on Formula Rookie on PC. The car is stuck to the road like it should be

Bealdor
27-09-2017, 10:50
I don't have any issue with the slicks on Formula Rookie on PC. The car is stuck to the road like it should be

When the tires are warm, yes. The bug is that you can't get them up to temperature when starting cold.

steve30x
27-09-2017, 10:53
When the tires are warm, yes. The bug is that you can't get them up to temperature when starting cold.Oh right. Yes this is a problem. It takes about four laps for the tyres to heat up.

Civic
27-09-2017, 11:30
:eagerness:

Your probably gonna have to do what many of us do, get a big honkin' 60"+ hi def tv / monitor and a wheel stand so you can sit back a little ways. Having a surround sound capable receiver is pretty mega too if the in-game audio is mixed correctly. I've been a little reticent about the whole vr thing only b/c I think my wife will take pictures of me looking goofy in a vr headset and put it on social media! LOL!

The funny part is I used to have a 46" Sony TV mounted on my rig only 650mm from my eyes. The immersions was great but I switched to a 27" monitor 535mm from my eyes because testing proved I was quicker and more consistent on the monitor. Using the human benchmark test my reaction times on the 27" monitor are about 30-50ms faster than the Sony TV.

This was on PC so I am just a little curious to see if the monitor still results in better performance on Playstation with v-sync. I suspect if anything the result would favour the monitor even more considering there is already significantly more lag on the Playstation than the PC and I believe the additional lag will amplify the performance difference.

At the end of the day I'm a racer at heart and the competitor in me can't give up a performance advantage.

Sankyo
27-09-2017, 11:37
That makes it even worse because now you're admitting the FFB is that bad that it actually makes you think the game's physics are different.
Actually this is a mistake nearly every sim racer makes, thinking that FFB equals physics modelling :).
But I didn't admit that, I stated that there seems to be a controller issue and I meant a sensitivity issue. This has direct influence on your perception of handling of the car. There also seem to be FFB issues, and those are also being looked into. Bad FFB can mess up handling too, though, when you're fighting the wheel instead of reacting to what the car is doing.

So yes there are some glaring controller/wheel issues on PS4, but they will be fixed soon. The how and why of this I don't know, so I cannot comment on that. The important thing here is that SMS takes it up and solves it, which is what they are doing right now.

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 11:46
Now the majority of PS4 steering wheel gamers have a copy of the game that's simply unplayable. That is hugely frustrating, and even more so if you are a big fan of the series who bought a steering wheel, also for all the upcoming racing titles on PS4 (CSLE PS4) and deliberately didn't not buy the PC version because you're thinking "what the hell, I don't care about graphics, the gameplay will be the same.". Guess not...

I've got to disagree with you on PS4 CSLE being undrivable, I've got one and I'm having an absolute blast with it. Yes the kerb rumble is missing but most of the other forces are there and no way is it unplayable.........

Sum Dixon-Ear
27-09-2017, 12:07
I've got to disagree with you on PS4 CSLE being undrivable, I've got one and I'm having an absolute blast with it. Yes the kerb rumble is missing but most of the other forces are there and no way is it unplayable.........

Sorry to veer off topic, but in your sig it says you have the BMW Rim... how do you like it? I'm sorely tempted to get one as my GT rim but not sure about the button placements.

Maciej619
27-09-2017, 12:18
Well the tyre physics feel different on PS4. Its not a controller issue. When we use slicks the car drives like its on ice on the Formula rookie. Then when we use rain tyres on the Formula rook on the same track and same track conditions the car is almost glued to the road. I don't know how you can put that down to controller issues. Also we were using a Thrustmaster T150. On PC with the same car and slicks on the same track and track conditions the car handles like it should. Unless the slicks have different control inputs to rain tyres on PS4 then its a tyre physics problem.



I'm not trying to be rude here but I wish I could bring you gyuys here and bring my brothers PS4 here so that you guys could test for yourselves. Theres a massive difference between the cars handle on PC with slick tyres compared to the way the car handle with slicks on PS4.


Have you tried to reset the car settings to default? It won't help the tyre temperature, but maybe the car will handle in a more controllable way. It did help me a lot.

Civic
27-09-2017, 12:45
Well the tyre physics feel different on PS4. Its not a controller issue. When we use slicks the car drives like its on ice on the Formula rookie. Then when we use rain tyres on the Formula rook on the same track and same track conditions the car is almost glued to the road. I don't know how you can put that down to controller issues. Also we were using a Thrustmaster T150. On PC with the same car and slicks on the same track and track conditions the car handles like it should. Unless the slicks have different control inputs to rain tyres on PS4 then its a tyre physics problem.



I'm not trying to be rude here but I wish I could bring you gyuys here and bring my brothers PS4 here so that you guys could test for yourselves. Theres a massive difference between the cars handle on PC with slick tyres compared to the way the car handle with slicks on PS4.


That makes it even worse because now you're admitting the FFB is that bad that it actually makes you think the game's physics are different.
Which on its turn makes it even more frustrating, because this means the steering wheels have not been tested at all (except maybe 1 or 2 models)...?!?!
Yet we have been told "Console Version where tested by Professional Q&A Teams. (Outsourced not SMS)".
Professional?! Oh please guys... They were incompetent to say the least and SMS failed to manage the issue or probably even notice it prior to release. It would be nice if someone admits that huge mistakes have been made regarding the PS4 (testing).

Now the majority of PS4 steering wheel gamers have a copy of the game that's simply unplayable. That is hugely frustrating, and even more so if you are a big fan of the series who bought a steering wheel, also for all the upcoming racing titles on PS4 (CSLE PS4) and deliberately didn't not buy the PC version because you're thinking "what the hell, I don't care about graphics, the gameplay will be the same.". Guess not...


Oh right. Yes this is a problem. It takes about four laps for the tyres to heat up.

The bug is that no amount of laps can bring them up to optimum temperatures on certain tracks. 4 laps improves the temperatures and the grip on those tracks but the tyres are still cold and difficult to drive. If you have the PS4 version and want to test this for yourself take the Formula R to Bahrain with telemetry on and watch the temperatures as you drive out of the pits. They are about 80 Celsius and you can get the tyres to 100 Celsius. Now take the same car to Oulton park and do 10 laps and see if you can even get the tyres to the starting temp of Bahrain. At Oulton tyres start at 40 and go up to 60, the hot temperature you mention after 4 laps is actually cold.

I've already pointed this out elsewhere. Even if the code is identical, the experience on a console will not be the same as a PC. a console will be harder. The closest you can test the PC vs Console editions of a game is to test both using the same display, use v-sync on the PC and cap the framerate to 60 fps. Even then you must make sure all settings especially in regards to visual settings are equal and even then there will be small difference due to processing as frame pacing will be different and the fact that the PS4 can't maintain 60 fps.

Unless you have taken steps to eliminate all other variables it isn't a fair comparison.

The problem is when people talk about physics, feeling and difficulty they are talking about perception. And input lag is one of the single biggest factors the effect our perception. If you drive on a setup that has more input lag that means you are literally seeing everything late. In every game what you see is after the fact, the greater the lag the further after the fact you are seeing stuff. Now think about driving a car, if instead of reacting instantly to a slide you waited a little bit and then reacted it should be easy to understand that it will be more difficult to recover. The more realistic the physics the greater the difficulty response will be to input lag.

On console there are 3 main areas of lag. Visual delay compared to PC. You have the lower frame rate, you have v-sync and you often have the issue of people using TV's that have a massive amount of lag compared to PC monitors.

In addition to lag issues you have differences in perception based on perspective. How far you sit from your display and your FOV will also effect your perception of physics and how difficult the game is to play. This is easy for you to test. Play with 3 different FOV settings, play with your mathematically correct setting, play with a setting of 35 and play with a setting of 120. If your mathematically correct setting is a very low number also try a number between it and 120 just to get a good idea of how FOV can effect perception and play ability.

So yes the PS4 version should be harder than the PC version, how much harder depends on the hardware and setting differences. And yes there is an issue with the tyres which doesn't make our life any easier. But based on my experience with the game so far, bugs aside, there is nothing about the driving experience on the PS4 version that is unrealistic and to be honest I really don't care about the PC version as long as ours is not inferior and we get all the features promised and the game is working. If the PC version is easier than what I'm driving then it isn't realistic because this is the first sim I have ever driven that is on this level of realism. If anything the tyre temp bug highlights the realism. Man i hate it when sims make cold slicks artificially easy to drive. Back when i was a member of iRacing they brought out a tyre model where the tyres were very slippery when cold and people were spinning out at the start of races and lots of people complained. At the time there was also a cold tyre bug that made the tyres impossible to drive causing pile ups on formation laps. But when they "fixed" it the cold tyres were easy to drive and there was barely a difference between cold and warm tyres. This game doesn't do that. Perhaps it isn't perfect, I'm sure people will find fault but man this game could be incredible if they give us patches that fix it and deliver on the feature promises.

I don't like the PS4 edition being broken as much as the next guy and I don't like the way we are treated when we talk about how broken the PS4 version is. All I can say is I hope they fix it quickly and my investment isn't wasted and I hope that we don't miss out on features the PC version has. I'm waiting to see if they make this right.

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 12:54
Sorry to veer off topic, but in your sig it says you have the BMW Rim... how do you like it? I'm sorely tempted to get one as my GT rim but not sure about the button placements.

I love it compared to the standard rim as it feels so much nicer for a start. Button placements seem ok but the biggest gripe with it is the PS4 d-pad controls are now on the right hand side of the wheel not the left as on the standard rim so it does take a bit of getting used to. :) I can't wait for the rumble ffb to be patched for it plus full use of all the buttons and switches if they manage to do that as well cos at the moment there are dead switches and buttons :(

mink
27-09-2017, 12:55
There's no point arguing anymore. I really doubt the patch can fix this. You would need multiple patches in a span of many months in order to fix or improve this game. All my friends were asking me why didn't you demand a refund? Its just so far from being a finished product

The_Flurk
27-09-2017, 13:11
I've got to disagree with you on PS4 CSLE being undrivable, I've got one and I'm having an absolute blast with it. Yes the kerb rumble is missing but most of the other forces are there and no way is it unplayable.........

Could you share your wheel's firmware settings and ingame settings, please?
Also, did you test this with different cars and tracks?

I've been testing for quite a few hours, but still far from a perfect FFB configuration.
I find that you almost never feel the back end stepping out, definitely under braking, but even mid corner and sometimes corner exit.
Since the FX slider doesn't change anything because there's zero bump and kerb response, I, for myself, cannot say I'm having a blast at all. What fun is Eau Rouge when your FFB is doing nothing...? :p
There are important details missing in the FFB that make consistent and fast driving impossible. I call that unplayable. What fun is the game if you can't push the car's limits?
Right now, it's very easy to cross that limit, meaning you'll probably get a delete time, a spin, or general driving error when you are pushing the car.

Clearly, you can see from the Telemetry HUD that the FFB very much saturated (it's a super smooth line 100% of the time), meaning you are losing all of the FFB's detail, so that seems to confirm my findings.

I don't mean to offend you or anything, but I assume you will be amazed when they fix this FFB issue for us.

In my opinion or what I currently presume is that the game defaults the CSLE PS4 to generic FFB. Like a full default setting for unrecognized wheels.
I believe that if we had the rocket science options to change the FFB settings like in pcars1, we would able to solve the issue by adjusting those.

I've played both AC and F1 2017 with the CSLE PS4 and those games give me a heck of alot more information through the steering wheel.
Pcars2 just feels very generic (other than no FX and some buttons not working), I have no other way to describe it better...

I'm also a bit sad that they didn't correct the rumble on the braking pedal of the CSPv2. It still only rumbles when using ABS like in pcars1. For me personally, that's no big deal. I mostly drive GT3 with realistic help, so that means ABS is on.

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 13:20
Yes I agree the ffb isn't perfect yet but I can feel my backend stepping out and fronts starting to lose grip on some cars. I've not upgraded to the latest firmware yet that fixes the rattling so maybe that's why mines ok?
On the subject of different cars having different ffb have you tried the Lambo Diablo yet? the ffb on this car is completely different to all the other cars I've tried.

Sum Dixon-Ear
27-09-2017, 13:24
I love it compared to the standard rim as it feels so much nicer for a start. Button placements seem ok but the biggest gripe with it is the PS4 d-pad controls are now on the right hand side of the wheel not the left as on the standard rim so it does take a bit of getting used to. :) I can't wait for the rumble ffb to be patched for it plus full use of all the buttons and switches if they manage to do that as well cos at the moment there are dead switches and buttons :(

Cheers for that, I'm used to the joystick swap as I use the Formula Rim. Is this rim much fatter than the standard one?

The_Flurk
27-09-2017, 13:46
Yes I agree the ffb isn't perfect yet but I can feel my backend stepping out and fronts starting to lose grip on some cars. I've not upgraded to the latest firmware yet that fixes the rattling so maybe that's why mines ok?
On the subject of different cars having different ffb have you tried the Lambo Diablo yet? the ffb on this car is completely different to all the other cars I've tried.

Thanks for replying. I will test with the Lamborghini Diablo tonight. Good idea.
Formula A and most of modern GT3 is what I have been testing since that's what I'll be racing 99% of the time if the FFB starts being acceptable.

What I actually meant was, could you share your firmware settings (SEN, FOR, DAM, SPR, DRI,...)?
And also complementary, what are your ingame sliders (Gain, Volume, Tone and FX)?

I'm really thinking of picking up a PC version too and compare the FFB.

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 14:01
Thanks for replying. I will test with the Lamborghini Diablo tonight. Good idea.
Formula A and most of modern GT3 is what I have been testing since that's what I'll be racing 99% of the time if the FFB starts being acceptable.

What I actually meant was, could you share your firmware settings (SEN, FOR, DAM, SPR, DRI,...)?
And also complementary, what are your ingame sliders (Gain, Volume, Tone and FX)?

I'm really thinking of picking up a PC version too and compare the FFB.

Funny that, I almost bought a suitable PC so I could try it out but managed to resist...........for now :)

I calibrated the wheel with SEN set at 108 as the game seems to soft lock the wheel at the correct DOR but I sometimes set this a tad lower than the cars DOR when in game. All the other settings I've turned to 0 apart from FOR 100 FF 100.
I'm still going up and down with the ingame ffb settings with different cars trying to find the sweet spot as what seems good on one doesn't always suit the next one.

Civic
27-09-2017, 14:52
There's no point arguing anymore. I really doubt the patch can fix this. You would need multiple patches in a span of many months in order to fix or improve this game. All my friends were asking me why didn't you demand a refund? Its just so far from being a finished product

Need? No I don't agree. SMS aren't really that small. Most of the bugs are minor and in the forums they have a wealth of information to draw upon. Some of the most serious bugs will be relatively minor to fix, the FFB issue with the G29 and G920 on consoles for example is a huge issue but it's a simple issue. The pit management tyre bug is another game effecting bug that is a simple fix.

I wouldn't be surprised if the tyre temp bug is also simple to trace and fix considering it is track specific.

Other issues will be a little more complex but some of the more complex issues like the graphics wouldn't be an issue to game play if they took a little longer to fix.

The most complex stuff will be missing features. We know it is complex because if it was simple it would have made it in.

But considering lots of people are all working on their respective stuff at the same time most of this stuff should get addressed quickly. And priority isn't really an issue, the graphics guy works on graphics, the tyre guy works on the tyre, the GUI guy works on the GUI.

My concern is not how fast it can happen, it is if it will happen at all. I have a concern that some things don't work because of Sony and I have another concern that based on their history SMS don't care enough about the console game.

I really want them to prove my fears are wrong.

Siberian Tiger
27-09-2017, 14:59
My concern is not how fast it can happen, it is if it will happen at all. I have a concern that some things don't work because of Sony and I have another concern that based on their history SMS don't care enough about the console game.

SMS had supported pCars 1 for over 1 Year with Patches etc. - And pCars 1 had a lot more of Bugs in the beginning.
(Yeah, there are some Bugs that was never been fixed, but that was because of 2 Points:
1. Point: Some Bugs SMS wasn't able to reproduce internally. If you can't reproduce it, a Bug Fix is nearly impossible without braking other Things possible.
2. Point: If SMS would have Patched the Console Versions after Fanatec/Sony License Drama, they would Need to have remove support for Wheels that where perfectly working with ProjectCars1.

Please have some trust in SMS.

And if anyone is in doubt what i am talking, please consider to join WMD 3 (if it will happen), then you Guys will exactly know what i am talking about ;)

Konan
27-09-2017, 15:16
I'm sorry i can only "like" this once....

Civic
27-09-2017, 15:37
Could you share your wheel's firmware settings and ingame settings, please?
Also, did you test this with different cars and tracks?

I've been testing for quite a few hours, but still far from a perfect FFB configuration.
I find that you almost never feel the back end stepping out, definitely under braking, but even mid corner and sometimes corner exit.
Since the FX slider doesn't change anything because there's zero bump and kerb response, I, for myself, cannot say I'm having a blast at all. What fun is Eau Rouge when your FFB is doing nothing...? :p
There are important details missing in the FFB that make consistent and fast driving impossible. I call that unplayable. What fun is the game if you can't push the car's limits?
Right now, it's very easy to cross that limit, meaning you'll probably get a delete time, a spin, or general driving error when you are pushing the car.

Clearly, you can see from the Telemetry HUD that the FFB very much saturated (it's a super smooth line 100% of the time), meaning you are losing all of the FFB's detail, so that seems to confirm my findings.

I don't mean to offend you or anything, but I assume you will be amazed when they fix this FFB issue for us.

In my opinion or what I currently presume is that the game defaults the CSLE PS4 to generic FFB. Like a full default setting for unrecognized wheels.
I believe that if we had the rocket science options to change the FFB settings like in pcars1, we would able to solve the issue by adjusting those.

I've played both AC and F1 2017 with the CSLE PS4 and those games give me a heck of alot more information through the steering wheel.
Pcars2 just feels very generic (other than no FX and some buttons not working), I have no other way to describe it better...

I'm also a bit sad that they didn't correct the rumble on the braking pedal of the CSPv2. It still only rumbles when using ABS like in pcars1. For me personally, that's no big deal. I mostly drive GT3 with realistic help, so that means ABS is on.

The game tells you what wheel it thinks you are using.

I can't tell you what settings to use but I can help you understand how to dial in FFB so you can get a result you want.

The flavours are pretty accurate in their descriptions, if you want to feel the car you might actually prefer Informative but I think you might be able to dial in RAW with your wheel. I'd personally start and try everything with Informative. Immersive tries to be Immersive and some might like it but there are some things that I really don't like about it and it isn't suited for what you want. Personally I think Informative can be dialled in for a superior Immersive style of FFB than Immersive but there are certain gamey feelings to Immersive that you will never get from Informative and fans of those feelings from other games might like those.

So start with Informative

You need to start of with a mentality of avoiding clipping, if you use settings that result in clipping you will be losing information.

You need to understand that PC2 has good FFB and for this reason the decision of global FFB is actually a bad one even if I understand why they did it. Your FFB settings will be optimal in certain cars and compromised in others unless you are running a wheel with a strength comparable to a DD wheel.

The simple to understand problem is cars with the most force in real life will often feel weak in this sim or if we dial that out could result in clipping during high load. The reason for this is if a wheel in real life is capable of 20Nm of force in real life but spends a lot of time at 4Nm a FFB wheel capable of 5Nm would represent that force as only 1Nm if it was simply scaled down. Every force would be accurate in relation to each other and give a great sense of what the car is doing but the FFB would feel weak. Now in a car that was only capable of 8Nm of force in real life the force representation of that car would feel much better unless your FFB was optimised for the 20Nm car.

We can get around this using a positive force response curve. This allows us to compress the force response in a way that feels nicer. The issue with this approach is that based on the force resolution of your wheel you can only push this setting up so far until details will be lost due to different forces being represented as the same force by your wheel.

Volume effects your force response curve. I imagine with raw linear would be about 50. I don't know what it is with informative but I suspect linear output is lower than 50 with Informative. Your wheel will have its own response curve so your setting here compliments the response curve of your wheel. My recommendation is to pick cars you like and start with FX and Tone at 20 while you adjust Volume and gain to find the most detailed settings that do not result in clipping.

After you have found your ideal Volume set tone. Tone simply decides where the forces are coming from, less tone means more from the rack, more tone means more from the tyres. If you love iRacing FFB then you want less tone, if you love getting more FFB from your tyres like you could in the ISI based games then you like more tone. If you think AC has great FFB you might prefer tone at between 35-50.

FX is flavour dependant. In informative FX will enhance bumps, rumbles, wheel weight, friction and I believe curb pull. In Immersive there also seems to be a spring effect and a weird flop effect but I've already said I don't like Immersive. A higher setting for FX comes at the price of lost details and this setting really is a compromise. The most informative setting is probably not immersive enough, the more immersive the less informative.

So to dial in your settings make sure the types of cars you use for testing are the type you prefer. If you prefer Street cars pick some street cars. If you like high downforce open wheel cars pick those. You want some good tracks with a wide variety of forces and loads. Knockhill is a great choice and I'd compliment that with Spa.

I imagine if you prefer high downforce cars a higher volume setting might be preferable but keep in mind that based on your wheel there will be a point where you will be trading details for feel. In lower force cars a lower volume setting works well.

Once you have dialled in Volume move Tone to 40 and see what you think keep going in big steps until you have gone too far and then fine tune.

After Tone you might need to adjust gain again.

Then dial in FX but be careful to put one wheel off a few times because you might like a high setting for the feel of the bumps but hate the wheel pull. You will lose some details with this but it is great for dialling in some realistic feel.

You might need a final adjustment to gain.

Once you have that dialled in to preference if you switch car types you might like to adjust your volume setting but keep in mind that you might need a gain adjustment to go alone with that.

Hope that helps.

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 15:53
Cheers for that, I'm used to the joystick swap as I use the Formula Rim. Is this rim much fatter than the standard one?

It's slightly thicker but not by much, but much more comfortable in my opinion. The led display and rev lights on the standard rim are a pain for me as they are too bright and right in your eye line, on the BMW rim they are lower down and less distracting :)

Madwak55
27-09-2017, 16:07
Thanks for replying. I will test with the Lamborghini Diablo tonight. Good idea.
Formula A and most of modern GT3 is what I have been testing since that's what I'll be racing 99% of the time if the FFB starts being acceptable.

What I actually meant was, could you share your firmware settings (SEN, FOR, DAM, SPR, DRI,...)?
And also complementary, what are your ingame sliders (Gain, Volume, Tone and FX)?

I'm really thinking of picking up a PC version too and compare the FFB.

Try these settings for the mclaren gt3 and see if they are any good?
Set SEN to 108 and calibrate the wheel then afterwards set it to 450. On the wheel set FF to100 FOR to 100 and all the others to 0 or OFF. Then in the game set gain to 100, volume to 62, tone to 75, and finally set FX to 35 or whatever you like as it don't seem to do anything.
With these settings I'm getting a strongish feel on turn in as the weight of the car shifts forward and it goes light as wheels start to lose traction, also when you start to lose the back end you can deffo feel it coming round on you. It's just the rumble from the curbs that's missing but you can feel when you are on one and losing traction.

hossa
27-09-2017, 16:39
Just had a friend (PC user) coming over and enjoying the PS4 version with G29 on raceseat.

He can now understand my frustration with this game. He wanted to win a career race (Nürburgring sprint) with mercedes evolution on AI 30. He had no chance and finished 7th with a 27sec gap to P1 after 3 rounds. On PC he plays with AI 80+



Coming back to the initial purpose of this thread: proper racing was impossible due to weird handling and immaculate AI. There's one thing that really helped for me:

DELETE ALL SAVEDATA of pcars2 in PS4 menu! (literally: settings, career, ...)

I reset EVERYTHING and started off new and didn't change anything with either FFB, setups of cars or AI. NOTHING!

I couldn't believe it but driving with the "overall-default-setup-for-everything" works and makes racing playable!

Don't change anything except for graphic, button assigns or the FFB style and career works!

I already drove with three different cars, never having looked or twiddled at their setup or AI and driving was FAAAAAAAAAR better! The handling and FFB felt better, no more skidding in small puddles etc.

Try and see for yourself. The best thing I could do atm.

AI is sometimes still hard to crack but far from a 27 second gap to P1.

However, never skip to end of Q - this bug is still present but being worked on as far as I can tell from various threads

Once again: DELETE ALL SAVEDATA in PS4 menu and don't touch FFB, AI or any cars' setups.

(I once was criticed by a mod for an "unproductive" comment - I really hope that this now is productive enough for many of the users here. At least it's the most productive and helpful thing for me)

SnowLeopard
27-09-2017, 16:54
Coming back to the initial purpose of this thread: proper racing was impossible due to weird handling and immaculate AI. There's one thing that really helped for me:

At what point must I sacrifice a virgin to get it working properly again?

hossa
27-09-2017, 17:41
At what point must I sacrifice a virgin to get it working properly again?

immaculate in terms of perfect and invincible. sorry, no native speaker

properly however is not the correct word - let's put it that way: better than bad

but if you have a virgin at hand she might also be useful. (if not for pcars2)

Civic
27-09-2017, 17:43
At what point must I sacrifice a virgin to get it working properly again?

That's funny. To be fair I haven't had to restart my career because I have refused to progress with the career until it is fixed. But in races i have done against AI I have not yet encountered and issue with the AI. I've only gone up to 75 so far but my only issue so far is at 75 they are not a challenge. I have changed my setups in almost every car I have tried. The only issues I have noticed in regard to that is screen lock is getting more frequent and longer.

The AI are very weird though, when I have followed then they exhibit god mode driving skills in the most challenging sections and then seem to lift in the easiest sections. They are also about as dumb as they come, not GT dumb but dumb enough to drive into you as if they didn't know you were there because they were texting on the phone thinking they could take the inside line even though you had been on that line for 100m.

hossa
27-09-2017, 19:29
SMS please fix invitation to silverstone, stormy, mclaren F1.
Even with default-everything-setup you can't make it past the 3rd corner. it feels like on ice and car spins no matter how fast / slow you drive or which line you choose. it's a really messed up race

slowGamer
28-09-2017, 01:23
That's funny. To be fair I haven't had to restart my career because I have refused to progress with the career until it is fixed. But in races i have done against AI I have not yet encountered and issue with the AI. I've only gone up to 75 so far but my only issue so far is at 75 they are not a challenge. I have changed my setups in almost every car I have tried. The only issues I have noticed in regard to that is screen lock is getting more frequent and longer.

The AI are very weird though, when I have followed then they exhibit god mode driving skills in the most challenging sections and then seem to lift in the easiest sections. They are also about as dumb as they come, not GT dumb but dumb enough to drive into you as if they didn't know you were there because they were texting on the phone thinking they could take the inside line even though you had been on that line for 100m.

Congrats if you find 75 not a challenge. I'm struggling with 60 although it's hard to say if that is becaues the quali skip to end of grid bug and I have to lap 20 cars in 3-4 laps which is what I usually drive ;)

On AI, I find this it more enjoyable than the procession I have seen for more than a decade in GT. I've had a couple of races where I genuinely felt I was in a REAL race, with weather forming and the track getting slippier and AI getting it wrong, spinning off or crashing badly, with myself having to find a way to survive through it. I've not felt like this in another console sim racer before. So well done SMS for trying something else than just a procession, even if my Day 1 experience was so bad I wanted to return the game. I'm glad I did not return this, the potential is immense. Looking forward to multi class racing!

CPS-3
28-09-2017, 02:23
I've got to disagree with you on PS4 CSLE being undrivable, I've got one and I'm having an absolute blast with it. Yes the kerb rumble is missing but most of the other forces are there and no way is it unplayable.........

Why are there so many people who disagree with you then? I’ve tried all the flavours and used the slider in many ways, the ffb was almost 0. Kerbs etc were practically not there and other forces of wheelslide, lockup were very low.
After a lot of testing and changing ffb settings i switched to the G29 and the difference in ffb was just wow (in a good way)
I rather drive my Fanatec wheel, but for now im sticking with the G29 untill this is fixed.
This weekend i’ll get my new gaming pc and Eift cv1 and allready ordered p Cars 2 for that as well and i’m Curious how the whole experience Will feel on that platform.

Civic
28-09-2017, 02:54
If anyone cares to see me admit I think I was wrong check out my latest posts in the G29 thread for my thoughts on the FFB system. I'll just say here I no longer think the FFB is bugged. It might need a tweak for optimisation but now that I understand the differences in the way settings are applied to each flavour I have realised the Flavours are mostly working as I'd expect them to.

I do think the GUI is not intuitive due to the difference in how the sliders effect each flavour and I would attribute this inconsistency as leading to user error which is amplifying any minor issues the system has. But I think it only needs some minor tweaking to be optimal. And maybe provide a little more information in how the sliders work differently in Immersive versus the other flavours.