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Haekr
25-09-2017, 18:12
Someone notice yet that there aren't any times posted on califonia highway? There is a bug with the race director deleting the time of every single run, at the 270 degree bend. Ok, so I try to be clever and try to set a time on stage 3 which begins after said bend. As I'm driving perfectly fine in the middle of the road on the last straight my time gets deleted again for no reason...

This same bull**** happens on azure circuit. I accidentally cut on the 4th last corner, that is the first chicane on the marina side, and as I'm cleanly past the first corner on a new lap my time gets deleted. Please would somebody tell me how the hell I gained any illegal time from cutting a corner that is 2 hairpins removed from the lap starting point?

These bugs are just infuriating, because of the fact that if anyone, anyone at all had spent 2 hours testing the goddamn time trial mode, they would have been discovered and fixed before release.

Also, why is my g920 rattling and shaking like a jackhammer when I'm driving completely straight?

Shogun613
25-09-2017, 18:25
I haven't driven California Highway on PCars 2 yet, but my G29 gets pretty loud and shaky at Knockhill, pretty tame on smooth circuits. Does your wheel only do that on California Highway?

Haekr
25-09-2017, 18:30
My wheel does it at absolutely every track, with every car. When I'm driving in a straight line it rattles nonstop, when I turn it to even the slightest angle it becomes normal. It's a just another bug probably, don't know if its aknowledged yet or not.

Itsdoomsday48
25-09-2017, 18:31
My wheel does it at absolutely every track, with every car. When I'm driving in a straight line it rattles nonstop, when I turn it to even the slightest angle it becomes normal. It's a just another bug probably, don't know if its aknowledged yet or not.

Yea it's been noted, my TX does the same thing no matter what car I'm in

Mad Al
25-09-2017, 18:35
Someone notice yet that there aren't any times posted on califonia highway? There is a bug with the race director deleting the time of every single run, at the 270 degree bend. Ok, so I try to be clever and try to set a time on stage 3 which begins after said bend. As I'm driving perfectly fine in the middle of the road on the last straight my time gets deleted again for no reason...

This same bull**** happens on azure circuit. I accidentally cut on the 4th last corner, that is the first chicane on the marina side, and as I'm cleanly past the first corner on a new lap my time gets deleted. Please would somebody tell me how the hell I gained any illegal time from cutting a corner that is 2 hairpins removed from the lap starting point?

These bugs are just infuriating, because of the fact that if anyone, anyone at all had spent 2 hours testing the goddamn time trial mode, they would have been discovered and fixed before release.

Also, why is my g920 rattling and shaking like a jackhammer when I'm driving completely straight?

It was fine last time I ran it before release.. don't forget that bugs can be accidently introduced at a very late stage and it's not physically possible to go back over every single thing to recheck (just checking cut track meshes was a monster task).

I've put this on the Cali highway feedback thread

cxMilk
25-09-2017, 20:14
Half my lap times at Cadwell Park get deleted on the first turn and I haven't been able to figure out why yet. Can lap times get deleted if you bottom out quite hard? I'm suspecting this could be happening since there is a bit of a dip on the apex of that turn, but I'm not entirely certain. Though I have the ride height set pretty high, and I don't sense or hear any bottoming out taking place.

I'm not going off track on corner approach or on apex and I don't believe it's a carry over deletion from the previous lap's final sector - believe that notification shows up right after you cross the line anyway. It seems pretty random though and I can't seem to purposefully replicate a time deletion.

Using the Ginetta GT4 at Cadwell GP in Free Practice.

Itsdoomsday48
25-09-2017, 20:22
I'm getting lap times deleted at turn 1 at Watkins Glen going down the hill before I even take the turn. Going straight under braking and not in the grass to the left or by the wall on the right. I will record it later tonight. Happens about 50% of the time taking the same line into the turn

FPS_Nicky_Cuypers
25-09-2017, 20:26
It's not only on that track. I noticed it on a couple of tracks. For example when you brake before the last corner on Sonoma you get the pit speed warning even if your not entering the pit. And your laptimes get deleted.

CESKO
25-09-2017, 21:11
It's not only on that track. I noticed it on a couple of tracks. For example when you brake before the last corner on Sonoma you get the pit speed warning even if your not entering the pit. And your laptimes get deleted.

Same on Brands Hatch Indy. If you cut the "white line of pit exit" while in race/car testing, your laptimes get deleted.
You can have a penalty when leaving the pits. But not by cutting this line when on track.
Oo

Haekr
27-09-2017, 19:46
Well, sadly found another bugged track... it's the nurburgring combined circuit. Got my laptime randomly deleted on the uphill fast section.

ironik
27-09-2017, 19:49
Make some videos guys. We can't help you if you can't show clearly what is happening.

Quatzu
27-09-2017, 20:03
I'm seeing this too in practice and qualifying on various tracks in Career, Formula Rookie. It seems that once you've legitimately cut track and been penalized for it, you will then be penalized each time you cross the finish line afterward until you pit. So, if I accidentally cut the track in lap 4 and had that lap deleted, I will again get the lap deletion notice as soon as I cross over to lap 5, then 6, etc., even though I only actually cut the track in lap 4. If I pit, it seems to reset this phenomena.

Haekr
27-09-2017, 20:04
Make some videos guys. We can't help you if you can't show clearly what is happening.

Well first of all it's not my duty to do for free, something the testing team has left undone. I'm a paying customer that expected to receive a product in good working condition, but instead received a huge bug compilation. I wanted to spend my free time enjoying the game, not on writing endless bug reports and much less recording and editing videos of said bugs.

And secondly, about this bug, it really isn't possible to say it any simpler, I'm driving on the middle of the road, not cutting, not out of bounds and get a lap deleted message. That's it. If you really need videos, go to time trial mode, select one of the tracks in this topic and get recording.

AbeWoz
27-09-2017, 20:07
Well first of all it's not my duty to do for free, something the testing team has left undone. I'm a paying customer that expected to receive a product in good working condition, but instead received a huge bug compilation. I wanted to spend my free time enjoying the game, not on writing endless bug reports and much less recording and editing videos of said bugs.

And secondly, about this bug, it really isn't possible to say it any simpler, I'm driving on the middle of the road, not cutting, not out of bounds and get a lap deleted message. That's it. If you really need videos, go to time trial mode, select one of the tracks in this topic and get recording.

it takes about 4 seconds to say 'xbox, record that' and then go to xboxdvr.com and post a link in here.

JJ Addison
27-09-2017, 23:33
Im on PC and loving the sim but gotta do something about race director deleting times. In private testing I so much as clip a blade of grass and lap is deleted. Or put a half a tire on a curb...very annoying. Is there anyway to turn the race director off? Oh and really need virtual mirrors to stay on they show up in some cars but then disappear the next time your in.

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 02:40
Im on PC and loving the sim but gotta do something about race director deleting times. In private testing I so much as clip a blade of grass and lap is deleted. Or put a half a tire on a curb...very annoying. Is there anyway to turn the race director off?

You can disable "Rules & Penalties" in the Gameplay options.

JJ Addison
28-09-2017, 04:03
You can disable "Rules & Penalties" in the Gameplay options.

Humm I think I did yet it doesn't stop it. Ill try again.

Aldo Zampatti
28-09-2017, 04:07
Humm I think I did yet it doesn't stop it. Ill try again.

It should

Tomsteel
28-09-2017, 07:06
I think the game checks the end of your last lap and if you started to accelerate to the start line from outside the track, it (correctly) deletes the next lap at the beginning. I think it is ok, a bit harsh and in some cases I got penalized for an irrelevant cut or mistake, but for the most part it works fine. Summary is, watch out for the tracklimits on the outlap!

Shepard2603
28-09-2017, 07:11
I think the game checks the end of your last lap and if you started to accelerate to the start line from outside the track, it (correctly) deletes the next lap at the beginning. I think it is ok, a bit harsh and in some cases I got penalized for an irrelevant cut or mistake, but for the most part it works fine. Summary is, watch out for the tracklimits on the outlap!
More like this: If you cut the track in the last sector of the lap, the next lap will be invalidated, as you might have gained an advantage (mooooaaaar speed) crossing the start finish line, as with not cutting the track beforehand.

ironik
28-09-2017, 07:14
nervermind

AutoCliubMonaco
28-09-2017, 07:40
More like this: If you cut the track in the last sector of the lap, the next lap will be invalidated, as you might have gained an advantage (mooooaaaar speed) crossing the start finish line, as with not cutting the track beforehand.


Yeah, it took me a while to figure this out. Just don't cock-up the final sector if you want your next lap to be valid. A warning message saying 'next lap invalid' would have been nice though.

Kaerar
28-09-2017, 08:13
Happens to me on Knockhill T1 too. Also had the bug of a time being rendered invalid from a RD penalty (running off the circuit too far) then the next lap immediately getting penalised into T1. Seems to be replicable too unless it's working as intended and deleting the first lap and then the subsequent lap.

Djuvinile
28-09-2017, 09:37
PS4: Zolder online practice session in Astra TC, hard braking just before 1st corner : Race director: Lap invalid.
Why? i have no idea i was in the middle of the road not even near a curb.

Sankyo
28-09-2017, 09:40
A warning message saying 'next lap invalid' would have been nice though.
This improvement will come in a patch soon, as it happens :)

Sankyo
28-09-2017, 09:41
PS4: Zolder online practice session in Astra TC, hard braking just before 1st corner : Race director: Lap invalid.
Why? i have no idea i was in the middle of the road not even near a curb.
Do you know whether you bottomed out during braking? It didn't state that it was invalidated because of contact?

JohnSchoonsBeard
28-09-2017, 10:15
PS4: Zolder online practice session in Astra TC, hard braking just before 1st corner : Race director: Lap invalid.
Why? i have no idea i was in the middle of the road not even near a curb.

As mentioned earlier in the thread did you exceed track limits in the final part of the previous lap? That will get your next lap deleted but you only currently find out at the 1st corner of the next lap.

missiletest
28-09-2017, 11:10
So it's not a bug that next laps are invalidated when ANY track limits are violated in the last sector of the previous lap? Even if there's a spin that has a negative impact on the next lap's time? Even if the violation happened five corners before the start line and had no effect on speed in the final corner? I have to say, that is a step backwards from not only PC1, but every sim I've played for the last few years. It makes no sense to be so punitive.

AbeWoz
28-09-2017, 11:16
So it's not a bug that next laps are invalidated when ANY track limits are violated in the last sector of the previous lap? Even if there's a spin that has a negative impact on the next lap's time? Even if the violation happened five corners before the start line and had no effect on speed in the final corner? I have to say, that is a step backwards from not only PC1, but every sim I've played for the last few years. It makes no sense to be so punitive.

every sim I've played, dating back to FM4 has done this. If you go outside track limits in the final timing sector, the next lap is automatically invalidated.

MXR SMILER
28-09-2017, 11:41
If you know how to code so that the console knows If I made a mistake or not please feel free to make it available. It can't be done as far as I know... I much prefer these 'punitive' measures to the ridiculous antics of those who appear to lack the ability to 'keep it on the track'. Yes they can be annoying but I saw a video recently of the Forza demo in which the driver uses the limits of the area the track is in, the Armco barriers and tyre stacks, not the track on the grass to do a lap. In my opinion if you drive like that your car should detonate and your save game be deleted and uninstalled. Persevere and you can do it, and hopefully we can look forward to ongoing development in how the game/games interpret our input.

missiletest
28-09-2017, 12:04
every sim I've played, dating back to FM4 has done this. If you go outside track limits in the final timing sector, the next lap is automatically invalidated.

I decided to go back to PC1 real quick and see if I was remembering things wrong. Went purposefully wide at Le Mans at Virage Porsche, which is the 1st corner of the 3rd sector, and waaaaaay before the start line. You were right. It dinged my next lap.

missiletest
28-09-2017, 12:08
If you know how to code so that the console knows If I made a mistake or not please feel free to make it available. It can't be done as far as I know...

Compared to programming car physics and developing AI, it can't be the hardest thing that goes into a racing sim. Not easy, of course, but not impossible.

The first thing I would do is move forward the line that dings subsequent laps on a track by track basis. For instance, there's no reason to ding the next lap if the violation occurs a mile before the start line, like at le mans. That's a first step that IS easy, and doesn't involve any analysis of entry speeds into the last corner or top speed at the first corner.

MXR SMILER
28-09-2017, 12:37
Don't know, I can't operate a calculator properly.

I agree that the penalty registration point should be closer to the end of the lap, track by track not within section 3. If that's how it works....

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 13:26
Regardless where it's at, someone is going to complain. The main thing to ensure is that it works exactly the same for everyone. i.e. everyone has the same restrictions whether they like them or not. It's about competition and ensuring everyone has the same rules.

Kaerar
28-09-2017, 13:45
Indeed, but when it occurs going into T1 without having had a blue on your previous lap or making an error that lap that's when it becomes a bug.

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 15:14
Indeed, but when it occurs going into T1 without having had a blue on your previous lap or making an error that lap that's when it becomes a bug.

Provide some video so it can be looked into (specifically in 3rd person so it can show where the car is on the track)...

I will say it seems people are reporting more of these on XBox than PC. However, there isn't enough useful evidence to go on. Several of us on the PC have attempting to replicate it these but have not had any success. It could be either we don't see the exact line others are taken since we don't have video, or it's something platform specific.

TommyFresh
28-09-2017, 15:22
Provide some video so it can be looked into (specifically in 3rd person so it can show where the car is on the track)...

I will say it seems people are reporting more of these on XBox than PC. However, there isn't enough useful evidence to go on. Several of us on the PC have attempting to replicate it these but have not had any success. It could be either we don't see the exact line others are taken since we don't have video, or it's something platform specific.

I have recorded some footage last night of this happening at Spa (PC). Looking for it now and will upload here.

Kaerar
28-09-2017, 16:01
Provide some video so it can be looked into (specifically in 3rd person so it can show where the car is on the track)...

I will say it seems people are reporting more of these on XBox than PC. However, there isn't enough useful evidence to go on. Several of us on the PC have attempting to replicate it these but have not had any success. It could be either we don't see the exact line others are taken since we don't have video, or it's something platform specific.

Will do some recording when my PC is capable of it. Unfortunately my tired 3930K is not up to the job (repeated crashes when trying), however the TR4 should make mince meat of it ;)

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 16:57
Will do some recording when my PC is capable of it. Unfortunately my tired 3930K is not up to the job (repeated crashes when trying), however the TR4 should make mince meat of it ;)

Screenshots will help as well (i.e. if you can do 3rd person screenshots where exactly the car was invalidated).

ironik
28-09-2017, 17:04
Screenshots will help as well (i.e. if you can do 3rd person screenshots where exactly the car was invalidated).

It's worth mentioning that the actual cut detection occurs before you see the grey box "Slow down for not being penalized" or when the yellow box "Lap time deleted" shows (if you're near the start/finish line)

ant1897
28-09-2017, 17:12
Thought this was only happening on the PS4. COTA T1... In the braking zone before the turn in. Invalidated time almost 80% of the time.

ironik
28-09-2017, 17:13
Thought this was only happening on the PS4. COTA T1... In the braking zone before the turn in. Invalidated time almost 80% of the time.

With which car and which game mode ?

MaximusN
28-09-2017, 17:20
Thought this was only happening on the PS4. COTA T1... In the braking zone before the turn in. Invalidated time almost 80% of the time.

Then it probably happened in the last corners before S/F. That would invalidate the next lap too in PC1(and other sims). And because your previous lap was also invalid you might have been not so cautious(because it was invalid anyway). I forgot to say that I think the game doesn't mention you invalidating the current lap(which is logical because it is already invalid), but also doesn't say anythin about the next.

I'm not sure if this is true, but I too had subsequent invalid laps triggered by a mistake(including popup) not to far from S/F which caused a string of invalid laps(and like you said that message pops up AFTER S/F at first sight, without any reason).

So all in all I think the system is okay, it just needs the message that this and the next lap have been invalidated. That is now replaced by a message THIS lap has been invalidated after S/F withouyt any clear cause(there was but that was 1/2/3 corners ago).

iekue
28-09-2017, 17:28
So all in all I think the system is okay, it just needs the message that this and the next lap have been invalidated. That is now replaced by a message THIS lap has been invalidated after S/F withouyt any clear cause(there was but that was 1/2/3 corners ago).

Yeah PC1 noted that next lap was invalidated, PC2 doesnt do that anymore, but instead pops up the deletion of lap around turn 1 (however, if u pay attention, ur time will be red from 00.00.00 onwards).

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 17:31
It's worth mentioning that the actual cut detection occurs before you see the grey box "Slow down for not being penalized" or when the yellow box "Lap time deleted" shows (if you're near the start/finish line)

While that is true, the box typically shows within the 2 minute replay window (i.e. you can go back and review the sector).

Haekr
28-09-2017, 17:41
The point of this thread was to point out the tracks that are actually bugged, in a way that the director deletes the time for no reason at all, no cutting, no out of bounds, just driving on the road. So far I have discovered 3 myself: california highway full, california highway stage 3, combined nurburgring. I checked to see if PC users had the same problem as Xbox1 users, by looking for registered times on wmd portal PC2 time leaderboards, and it seems to be true to both platforms. Neither Xbox1 or PC users have set valid times on nurburgring combined, and while there are no valid times set on Xbox1 on california full, there is 1 overall valid time on PC, probably for the only one lucky enough to somehow avoid the bug.

Molda
28-09-2017, 21:06
I have a weird issue when it comes to time trial (private session, time trial, community events). Very often my lap time gets invalidated without a reason and it always happen around first corner of whatever track. Mostly slightly before the first corner. I can be in the middle of the road but my lap time still will be deleted. I only tested the game so far on few tracks since i dont have much time, but it happened on every single one of them and it happens very often.
(Algarve, Sugo, Knockhill, Oulton Park, Brno)
Does anyone know why? is it a known bug? it is kinda frustrating

Awong124
28-09-2017, 21:13
If you do something to invalidate the lap in the final sector, it will automatically invalidate the next lap. That might be what you're experiencing.

Danelite86
28-09-2017, 21:18
I get the same thing on the first track on the list and get it on the inside of the last turn but not all the time so its got to be a bug.

ironik
28-09-2017, 22:46
I checked to see if PC users had the same problem as Xbox1 users, by looking for registered times on wmd portal PC2 time leaderboards, and it seems to be true to both platforms. Neither Xbox1 or PC users have set valid times on nurburgring combined, and while there are no valid times set on Xbox1 on california full, there is 1 overall valid time on PC, probably for the only one lucky enough to somehow avoid the bug.

This is wrong. There are plenty of laptimes recorded for Nurb combined (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3403453048&vehicle=809291220).
I just tried it myself and, yeah if you go too wide on the second turn (Castrol S ?) your laptime is invalidated even if you don't gain time and there is no obvious "line".
I did a video of my lap, it's uploading right now.

If I have some time tomorrow, I'll try the two others you're mentioning but again, a video is needed.

Azure Coast Stage 3 (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=2557706171&vehicle=2955645152)

Azure Coast (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=560711985&vehicle=4145350228)

CESKO
28-09-2017, 22:59
Here is an example of a wrong penalty in this game:

***.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NiNgDqJaA&feature=youtu.be

This kind of penalties are too numerous and not always constants.

And I also wonder if some cars are not more sensitive than others to this bug.
For example, same circuit in Porsche 911 GT3 R, first right corner exit (begin at 0:05):

***.youtube.com/watch?v=a_yvpxhUMEg

In this case, I do not get any penalty. And this is correct because I have two wheels on the track...

FIA GT WORLD CUP - Sporting Regulations 2017:

19.4 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance
of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to
be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car
remains in contact with the track.

I really hope that these bugs will be corrected because the game is really great.
Specially since I use the "Jack Spade Custom FFB Files (standard mid comp.)" With my steering wheel T500rs.

:02.47-tranquillity:

P.S.: sorry for the truncated links, I've not enough posts on this forum to post external links.

DreamsKnight
28-09-2017, 23:09
first, recording video from the outside was better to judge track limit.

second, they use two tyre on track rules. so if the internal rear tyre touch the kerb the lap is not valid.

not so much racing, 1 tyres on track is better (and real) but these are the rules here.

CESKO
28-09-2017, 23:29
This means that I am forced to drive external view ... for the replay in the game is limited to two minutes ... Funny.
Or I should quickly interrupt the session to switch the replay to external view (and record it with GF experience in my case).
When the replay system will be completely revised, we will post more videos :-).

At the same time, I noticed another bug in the replays in "chrono mode": the ghost car of the opponent appears at a place of the circuit and completely frozen.

Oo

JJ Addison
28-09-2017, 23:38
Just FYI I turned off penalties tab but still keeps deleting lap times at any track so far.

DreamsKnight
28-09-2017, 23:39
Yes, my point is: record the replay with a software from outside view :D

By the way, I've just read they changed track limit. But not in this forum..

Mods will give us answers.

ironik
28-09-2017, 23:46
What is the point of continuing your lap if it's invalidated anyway? The replay length is 2 minutes by the way.
Regarding your video, I'm quite sure it's not a bug.
It may be strict but definitely not a bug.
The detection is the same for everybody : 50% of the car outside the curb, IIRC.
Furthermore, you seem to be a good driver so, respect the track limits and you'll be fine ;)

Mahjik
28-09-2017, 23:50
PC2 does not use FIA rules. The rule is 50% of the car must be on the racing circuit. Now what defines the racing circuit will slightly vary. Le Mans is one where it's a little different in the chicanes. In most cases, the white line will define the racing circuit.

DreamsKnight
28-09-2017, 23:52
Two tyres or 50% of the car?

cpcdem
28-09-2017, 23:56
I will say it seems people are reporting more of these on XBox than PC. However, there isn't enough useful evidence to go on. Several of us on the PC have attempting to replicate it these but have not had any success. It could be either we don't see the exact line others are taken since we don't have video, or it's something platform specific.

And I think it turns out you are completely right. I just now decided to prove you wrong and post screenshots of invalidated laps with the car inside the legal area of the track, so I loaded TT in Hockenheim, where first turn is a common place of seemingly unfair lap invalidation, at least I was absolutely certain many of my laps were invalidated in the past while I still had 2 wheels to the right of the white line. No, seeing the car from chase view, I could never reproduce that, invalidation only happens when all 4 wheels are outside the white lines. I checked and rechecked this many times, with various speeds and the results are consistent. Tried the same thing in other corners, or other tracks like RBR, actually there it turns out that some limits are actually much forgiving!

So, in my opinion, it turns out that the game is correct and the limits are good enough, it's just that we've been extremely spoiled by previous very loose cut detection and try to keep doing the same thing. Or also we've seen too much racing in TV where drivers are really abusing the track limits (for example in SPA, where kerbs are very large and many cars completely abuse them) and want to do the same thing. But no, TT is a controlled environment, where such abusing should not be allowed. So now I think the system is fine, unless proven otherwise.

My suggestion is that when anybody feels that the track limits were too harsh, just pause the game, rewind 10 seconds and check from chase view where their cars was at the time the warning arrived. I think people will be very surprised, just like I was right now.

ironik
28-09-2017, 23:59
I think it's 51% outside the curb trigger the cut.
We had a lot of discussions about this but I don't remember what was the final decision to be honest.
Anyway, if a cut is triggered, just take more room next time. ^^

ironik
29-09-2017, 00:06
Thanks for that :)

frederickalonso
29-09-2017, 00:27
I also had strange things going on. I got a penalty from a car that touched me on the rear bumper because for some reason he shooted fast forward because another car touched him. Those cars don't get a penalty. Very logical? :) Also If you pushed it very hard in qualify the AI has much better times then your time. While usually I am much faster in the race as well... :confused: Then something about flags. Someone goes off, usually it's a yellow flag then. But cars are doing things that are forbidden in real races. Would be nice if these small bugs are away in a new patch update ;-)

Mahjik
29-09-2017, 03:02
Two tyres or 50% of the car?

50% of the car.

cpcdem
29-09-2017, 05:35
Here is an example of a wrong penalty in this game:

***.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NiNgDqJaA&feature=youtu.be

...

***.youtube.com/watch?v=a_yvpxhUMEg

In this case, I do not get any penalty. And this is correct because I have two wheels on the track...


In your first video, in around second 9.5, I think it's clear that all 4 wheels are out of the track, so by any definition, this should indeed be invalidated lap, shouldn't it?
I know, PCARS1 allowed us to go there (and in many other corners in this track) without invalidating the lap, but that doesn't make it right..

In the second video, at every corner you're always partially inside the track limits, so no invalidation. IMO the game is right in both cases.

Now I'm off to see if I can beat your time :)

CESKO
29-09-2017, 13:45
By the way, I've just read they changed track limit. But not in this forum..

Mods will give us answers.

Can a mod gives us the exact rules please ? Thx.


What is the point of continuing your lap if it's invalidated anyway?
Furthermore, you seem to be a good driver so, respect the track limits and you'll be fine ;)

Because I was not making times but searching the track limits on the circuit ;-)
Thx but again, for a simulation, I think it's a shame SMS do not more faithfully respects the official FIA regulations.



Now I'm off to see if I can beat your time :)

You're welcome !

I've not make any online race, but is there a warning system for the first off-track before giving a penalty in case of a new fault ?

Mahjik
29-09-2017, 13:53
PC2 does not use FIA rules. The rule is 50% of the car must be on the racing circuit. Now what defines the racing circuit will slightly vary. Le Mans is one where it's a little different in the chicanes. In most cases, the white line will define the racing circuit.


Can a mod gives us the exact rules please ? Thx.

Already in the thread...

CESKO
29-09-2017, 14:01
Thx for the answer and sorry about that question.
It was not clear for me because I understood that "DreamsKnight" was saying that the rules had changed:



By the way, I've just read they changed track limit.

Siberian Tiger
29-09-2017, 14:04
No, Rules didnīt changed since Release.

Itīs like Mahjik said:

50% of the Car has to remain on the Track.

Considered as Track is:
Track (Whitelines) + Curbs and Astroturf.

So to stay clean, just remain within Whitelines ;)

Shogun613
29-09-2017, 14:26
With all of the track limits talk going on, has somebody mentioned anything about the double yellow pit exit lane at Long Beach? I see a lot of videos on YouTube where people are crossing over those lines before the left hander to the fountain. If I'm not mistaken, that should be a violation...

Mahjik
29-09-2017, 14:29
IIRC, Long Beach like Le Mans is a special beast. I think there are only a few areas which enforce track rules while the rest of the track is just the walls.

cpcdem
29-09-2017, 14:46
I've not make any online race, but is there a warning system for the first off-track before giving a penalty in case of a new fault ?

I have not completely figured it out yet, but it does vary depending on if you gained position(s) with the off-track, gained time etc.
In any case, the rules for off-track seem to be a bit relaxed in race compared to TT, which makes practical sense I think.

ironik
29-09-2017, 14:51
I have not completely figured it out yet, but it does vary depending on if you gained position(s) with the off-track, gained time etc.
In any case, the rules for off-track seem to be a bit relaxed in race compared to TT, which makes practical sense I think.

Basically, if you cut a corner, the system will trigger a check in the background to detect if you gained some time or not.
If not, nothing is showing on the screen, you're good to go.
If the system detect you gained time, you'll get a "slow down warning".
If you don't comply to the slow down, you'll get penalized or your lap time will be deleted.
If you keep cutting the penalties will be worse and worse.

In qualifications, if you cut too close to the start/finish line, the system won't have time to detect if you gained time so your laptime will be deleted instantly (and your next lap also).

EDIT: I forgot, if you cut in race and you gained a position from it, you'll get a "Give position back" warning and you'll be penalized if you don't comply.

Emsi
29-09-2017, 14:56
Through out my playtime another thing happens all the time.
Crossing the finish line with high speed my laptime often gets deleted in the moment I started the new lap or just seconds after. I am not touching any curbs at all.
Yesterday I tried to get a laptime with the GT3 Ferrari on Spa and after 30 laps I had not one single valid laptime.
In career mode I couldnt get a single laptime with the Skyline in Dubai.
Happened to me also at Hockenheim, Algarve, Sugo and Rapua (or how its called).

ironik
29-09-2017, 15:02
Through out my playtime another thing happens all the time.
Crossing the finish line with high speed my laptime often gets deleted in the moment I started the new lap or just seconds after. I am not touching any curbs at all.
Yesterday I tried to get a laptime with the GT3 Ferrari on Spa and after 30 laps I had not one single valid laptime.
In career mode I couldnt get a single laptime with the Skyline in Dubai.
Happened to me also at Hockenheim, Algarve, Sugo and Rapua (or how its called).

Come on guys... it's obvious when one cuts the track limit.
Besides Time trial, it's not an "instant penalty", the system is reviewing your cut and see if you gain an advantage or not. If yes, then your laptime is deleted.
If you cutted in the last sector, your next time will be invalidated.

Maybe there is a bug or something but I've never seen a problem with track cutting detection since a long, long time.
If you think there is something weird, please make a video of your lap.

DreamsKnight
29-09-2017, 15:28
Thx for the answer and sorry about that question.
It was not clear for me because I understood that "DreamsKnight" was saying that the rules had changed:






By the way, I've just read they changed track limit. But not in this forum..

Mods will give us answers.

the bold part means something. :rolleyes:

TKMSte66
29-09-2017, 15:38
It must be said that I find the track limits at Knockhill rather annoying. You are forced to drive the track unrealistically.
What's this silly 50% of the car all about. It should be all of the car.
I agree track limits need work.

ironik
29-09-2017, 16:00
It must be said that I find the track limits at Knockhill rather annoying. You are forced to drive the track unrealistically.
What's this silly 50% of the car all about. It should be all of the car.
I agree track limits need work.

You mean all the car on track ? You'll get even more complaints then as the track limit should be the white lines. :D

Haekr
29-09-2017, 16:13
Ok, so because none of you can test the game on xbox, I made some videos exclusively in the 3rd person view, so you can see better where the car is on the road, when the lap deletion happens.

First one is california highway full: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194775

Second is california highway 3rd stage: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934

And finally third one is nurburgring combined. This video actually contains 2 lap deleted messages. I guess the second one is a bonus bug for anyone who miraculously avoided the first one: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641

Anyone have any more comments about how we the players are just too stupid to know that we're driving out of track?

Haekr
29-09-2017, 16:51
I made some videos of the problems with bugged lap time deletion: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194271
These are definitely not player caused in any way, just bugged.

cpcdem
29-09-2017, 17:06
Basically, if you cut a corner, the system will trigger a check in the background to detect if you gained some time or not.
If not, nothing is showing on the screen, you're good to go.
If the system detect you gained time, you'll get a "slow down warning".
If you don't comply to the slow down, you'll get penalized or your lap time will be deleted.
If you keep cutting the penalties will be worse and worse.

In qualifications, if you cut too close to the start/finish line, the system won't have time to detect if you gained time so your laptime will be deleted instantly (and your next lap also).

EDIT: I forgot, if you cut in race and you gained a position from it, you'll get a "Give position back" warning and you'll be penalized if you don't comply.

Thanks for the info! It does sound consistent to what I'm experiencing in races. I'd just be very interested to find out how's the highlighted part internally implemented!

Btw, I am not very sure about this, is the issue that when cutting a corner in sector 3, there's no message.indication to the player that the next lap will be invalidated as well, considered as a problem by SMS? In my opinion it is a problem, so many times I have an invalidated lap in sector one or two, but continue the lap to not lose my rhythm, then I take a corner is s3 "so and so" and I have no idea if I should continue for the next lap, I only find out much later if the next lap gets invalidated..

cpcdem
29-09-2017, 17:42
Ok, so because none of you can test the game on xbox, I made some videos exclusively in the 3rd person view, so you can see better where the car is on the road, when the lap deletion happens.

First one is california highway full: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194775

Second is california highway 3rd stage: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934

And finally third one is nurburgring combined. This video actually contains 2 lap deleted messages. I guess the second one is a bonus bug for anyone who miraculously avoided the first one: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641

Anyone have any more comments about how we the players are just too stupid to know that we're driving out of track?

I am pretty sure those ones are bugs indeed :)

But I don't think anybody said or implied that players are stupid..

ironik
29-09-2017, 18:42
Thanks for the info! It does sound consistent to what I'm experiencing in races. I'd just be very interested to find out how's the highlighted part internally implemented!

Btw, I am not very sure about this, is the issue that when cutting a corner in sector 3, there's no message.indication to the player that the next lap will be invalidated as well, considered as a problem by SMS? In my opinion it is a problem, so many times I have an invalidated lap in sector one or two, but continue the lap to not lose my rhythm, then I take a corner is s3 "so and so" and I have no idea if I should continue for the next lap, I only find out much later if the next lap gets invalidated..

IIRC, if you cut the track in your last sector, it should show a first message "Your laptime has been deleted" and when you cross the start/finish line, you should get a second one (for the new lap).
Well maybe SMS could improve the display of the messages, I don't know.

By the way, if your laptime is deleted, it will show in red : Easy to know from a glance ;)

ironik
29-09-2017, 20:04
Ok, so because none of you can test the game on xbox, I made some videos exclusively in the 3rd person view, so you can see better where the car is on the road, when the lap deletion happens.

First one is california highway full: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194775

Second is california highway 3rd stage: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934

And finally third one is nurburgring combined. This video actually contains 2 lap deleted messages. I guess the second one is a bonus bug for anyone who miraculously avoided the first one: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641

Anyone have any more comments about how we the players are just too stupid to know that we're driving out of track?

Thanks for the videos, I bet they will be very useful for SMS.

Regarding your last comment, the new system seems to be quite tricky to understand for some.
I did a mistake here as you're talking about time trial where the penalty is showing instantly. My bad ;)

Sorry if you felt insulted, that wasn't intended.

Molda
29-09-2017, 23:00
I have the same problem as Haekr above but on Algarve, Sugo, Knockhill, Oulton Park, Brno. I was driving on the track, i didnt cross the line, all four wheels on the track, i had good last sector of the previous lap (also didnt cut anything) yet when i get to the first corner, 5 of 10 times, i get the yellow message that my lap time was deleted.

DreamsKnight
30-09-2017, 01:14
https://s25.postimg.org/e9i54eqkf/20170930025120_1.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6tivim2uz/)

invalidated lap.

Aldo Zampatti
30-09-2017, 01:18
https://s25.postimg.org/e9i54eqkf/20170930025120_1.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6tivim2uz/)

invalidated lap.
I believe that in this case, more than 50% of the car is out of the white line. So it would be invalidated in some modes (TT?)

I might be wrong though

Ian Bell
30-09-2017, 01:26
Nope, the kerb should be flagged as legal.

We're collating these guys and will ease the diligence a little.

Aldo Zampatti
30-09-2017, 01:31
Nope, the kerb should be flagged as legal.

We're collating these guys and will ease the diligence a little.

Thanks Ian for jumping in. I wasn't entirely sure :)

cpcdem
30-09-2017, 01:35
I believe that in this case, more than 50% of the car is out of the white line. So it would be invalidated in some modes (TT?)

I might be wrong though

Guys, I think in most cases the detection system is working well and intuitively (apart from the obvious glitches that Haekr reported), but if indeed the 50% rule causes a lap to be invalidated because the car is located in the place that this screenshot shows, then the rule needs to be revisited, doesn't it? This is a very valid car placement in every motorsport category, to my knowledge at least.

@DreamsKnight, which track/corner is this? I'd like to try it myself, too.

Edit:Ninja'd I guess :)

Mahjik
30-09-2017, 01:55
Just a note, I looked back at some of the notes for the cuts and for the most part, it's the white lines. There are places on tracks where curbs are allowed but those are typically curbing where apexes are located (currently).

OG_Grinskin91
30-09-2017, 02:20
I was having this problem on Oulton park in a qualifying round of the gilletta juniors in career.
Running the game on a i7 4790k and gtx 980

Lap times were being deleted whilst in the middle of the track, and when some of the kerbs and run off.

cpcdem
30-09-2017, 02:21
Hmm OK, I think I see what's happening, it's a very good idea in concept to decide later if the lap should be invalidated or not, but I think it does not work well in practice. And I am sure it is extremely difficult to implement this properly and for every track, for this reason I said I'm very curious how it is implemented in code. This is the test I just did:

1. Started TT in Oulton Park Island, with the Porshe GT3
2. Did a completely clean lap till the last corner
3. Slowed down a lot, 1st gear and cut the last corner to the right. This gave me a warning (in yellow) that the (current) lap time was deleted by the race director. So far so good
4. I keep in 1st gear, so speed is < 100 km/h and complete the lap.
5. As I pass the start/finish line, I get no notification that the new lap is invalidated as well, guess the system wants to check if I gained time by the previous cut. Sounds good.
6. I'm still going in first gear, obviously I did not gain any time by the cut, so my current lap is still not invalidated, great!
7. Just I am turning (in the middle of the road) for the first corner, still in first gear and 90 km/h, bang!, I do get a message that my new lap is invalidated! Just when I was thinking that all is well :)

I know, I should had made a video out of it, but I'm too old to get a youtube account now :) I think with the above steps it's easy to reproduce this, though. I can reproduce it consistently here.

I think this is what confuses most people, myself included, that it is not clear at all that a lap is invalidated because of a cut in the current lap, or because of a cut in the previous one and many times the message seems to appear completely out of nowhere. As I said, it sounds extremely difficult to make such a clever system work reliably, but if the SMS guys can do it eventually, then it would be perfect. If not, then maybe it's a good idea to revert back to the PC1 system, where a cut in the last corner(s) results to a clear message that both the current and next laps will be invalidated?

Ian Bell
30-09-2017, 02:21
Please add this to the thread mods.

In general all please search for your issue and add your point in a thread that exists.

Aldo Zampatti
30-09-2017, 02:25
Merged

Mahjik
30-09-2017, 02:30
IIRC, if you cut in the last sector, the next lap is invalidated just in general (no calcs). The other areas for cuts (1st and 2nd sectors) try to calculate if you gained any time or not. Also note the cuts are more strict as you go up (Practice->Qualify/Race->Time Trial).

Ian Bell
30-09-2017, 02:45
Please merge with the larger thread mods.

Aldo Zampatti
30-09-2017, 02:47
Merged... I was on it before :)

alitomr1979
30-09-2017, 03:03
I am getting the same in Watkins Glen in my career mode. I keep getting my lap invalidated right when I hit the brakes in the first corner.

It is not that I am doing something illegal in the last corner.

Mike Laskey
30-09-2017, 09:13
IIRC, if you cut the track in your last sector, it should show a first message "Your laptime has been deleted" and when you cross the start/finish line, you should get a second one (for the new lap).
Well maybe SMS could improve the display of the messages, I don't know.


Yes, that's caught a few people out so the messaging has been improved for that last sector/first corner scenario, which will appear in a future patch.

DreamsKnight
30-09-2017, 11:00
Guys, I think in most cases the detection system is working well and intuitively (apart from the obvious glitches that Haekr reported), but if indeed the 50% rule causes a lap to be invalidated because the car is located in the place that this screenshot shows, then the rule needs to be revisited, doesn't it? This is a very valid car placement in every motorsport category, to my knowledge at least.

@DreamsKnight, which track/corner is this? I'd like to try it myself, too.

Edit:Ninja'd I guess :)

mate, more racing. it's impossible non recognizing imola at first look :p ;) villenueve S

by the way, imola is always the definitive stress test to understand how track limits works in a sim.

cpcdem
30-09-2017, 12:39
mate, more racing. it's impossible non recognizing imola at first look :p ;) villenueve S


Well, to my defense I usually look at it the other way around than it shows in the pic :)
Thanks, will have a look, had not done any TT in it in PC2.

Edit: Maybe it's just me, but I could not get the game to invalidate the lap by positioning the car in the place that your pic shows. I tried it several times, I could easily go even wider and the lap still does not invalidate for me, if I have a wheel on the white line. Only if I go even wider, right wheels on the kerb and lefts on the turf, only then the lap get's invalidated. Based on this, I think the game works perfectly in this case. Unless I am missing something of course.

cpcdem
30-09-2017, 15:39
I made some videos of the problems with bugged lap time deletion: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194271
These are definitely not player caused in any way, just bugged.

I run some tests in the same tracks, and my conclusion is that even though the messages about invalidating time seem to come out of nowhere, in fact they are not.

For example in California Highway stage 3, I think the actual "cut" that the game detected is at 56% (0.21 sec in your video) where you slightly went to the left of the road. Or maybe a little earlier.
Now it is debatable if such strict road limits should be enforced in a road track, but the real problem I think is that the game does not invalidate the time right there, instead it waits to see if you've really gained time and when it decides that you have indeed, it only then shows the message. But this is some 1 km far from the actual place of infringement and several seconds later (and while the car is in the middle of the road), leaving the driver wondering what he did wrong. If the message was shown at the time of the cut, I think everything would be clear.

I suspect the same happens also in DremsKnight's case in Imola, the car in the pic he is showing is in valid position and the game is ok with that, but there was probably a cut a bit earlier, maybe in the previous chicane. But the message was shown later, making him to believe it was on the last corner..

In my opinion it would be better to revert back to the old system of issuing a warning and invalidating the time exactly at the moment when it happened. The new system is a very clever idea, but unfortunately in practice it leads to a lot of confusion.

DreamsKnight
30-09-2017, 19:43
i was not in TT but in ... free practice (private session? i don't remember the correct name). i don't think cut rules are different by the way.

your idea is not bad i'll check next days, in my defense i can say it was middle of the night in my time zone :D

Kaerar
01-10-2017, 11:42
Ok, so because none of you can test the game on xbox, I made some videos exclusively in the 3rd person view, so you can see better where the car is on the road, when the lap deletion happens.

First one is california highway full: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194775

Second is california highway 3rd stage: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194934

And finally third one is nurburgring combined. This video actually contains 2 lap deleted messages. I guess the second one is a bonus bug for anyone who miraculously avoided the first one: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Reclus1am/video/37194641

Anyone have any more comments about how we the players are just too stupid to know that we're driving out of track?

The track cuts there are well within the standard ruleset for pCARS2 so shouldn't trigger a lap deletion from what I've seen on the racing side. The ruleset seems to be that if you go 2 wheels over you should be ok, unless TT has strict no tires off track which is honestly odd as it would remove the consistency between racing and TT.

napocapo69
01-10-2017, 12:26
Someone notice yet that there aren't any times posted on califonia highway? There is a bug with the race director deleting the time of every single run, at the 270 degree bend. Ok, so I try to be clever and try to set a time on stage 3 which begins after said bend. As I'm driving perfectly fine in the middle of the road on the last straight my time gets deleted again for no reason...

This same bull**** happens on azure circuit. I accidentally cut on the 4th last corner, that is the first chicane on the marina side, and as I'm cleanly past the first corner on a new lap my time gets deleted. Please would somebody tell me how the hell I gained any illegal time from cutting a corner that is 2 hairpins removed from the lap starting point?

These bugs are just infuriating, because of the fact that if anyone, anyone at all had spent 2 hours testing the goddamn time trial mode, they would have been discovered and fixed before release.

Also, why is my g920 rattling and shaking like a jackhammer when I'm driving completely straight?

It happens frequnetly also at Monza, and sometimes at Long Beach. I think it is a quite frequent, and annoying , bug

ironik
01-10-2017, 12:40
It happens frequnetly also at Monza, and sometimes at Long Beach. I think it is a quite frequent, and annoying , bug

The next lap time being deleted is not a bug. It's working like that by design: if you cut in the last sector, the next will be deleted.
If you like it or not is something different.

F2kSel
01-10-2017, 12:58
I think sometimes you cut in sector two but the message stays up for so long you may cut in sector three and not realize especially on a short track.
I said before just change the message in the last sector to let you know the next lap is invalid.

ironik
01-10-2017, 13:00
I think sometimes you cut in sector two but the message stays up for so long you may cut in sector three and not realize especially on a short track.
I said before just change the message in the last sector to let you know the next lap is invalid.

I saw a dev mentioning that they will try to improve the message for more clarity :)

TKMSte66
02-10-2017, 13:05
I have the same problem as Haekr above but on Algarve, Sugo, Knockhill, Oulton Park, Brno. I was driving on the track, i didnt cross the line, all four wheels on the track, i had good last sector of the previous lap (also didnt cut anything) yet when i get to the first corner, 5 of 10 times, i get the yellow message that my lap time was deleted.

This was happening every lap for me. I had to quit and restart to stop it deleting my times for no reason. was Donnington park national.

TKMSte66
02-10-2017, 13:07
I believe that in this case, more than 50% of the car is out of the white line. So it would be invalidated in some modes (TT?)

I might be wrong though

This should not be a corner cut/track limits. It happens all the time. Thats what i meant earlier in the thread about Knockhill being simply wrong as well as it happening on other tracks.

TKMSte66
02-10-2017, 13:08
Guys, I think in most cases the detection system is working well and intuitively (apart from the obvious glitches that Haekr reported), but if indeed the 50% rule causes a lap to be invalidated because the car is located in the place that this screenshot shows, then the rule needs to be revisited, doesn't it? This is a very valid car placement in every motorsport category, to my knowledge at least.

@DreamsKnight, which track/corner is this? I'd like to try it myself, too.

Edit:Ninja'd I guess :)

Since when was there a 50% rule in motorposrt anyway???

It should be ALL of the car not 50%. Strange decision if you ask me.

Kaerar
02-10-2017, 13:13
Since when was there a 50% rule in motorposrt anyway???

It should be ALL of the car not 50%. Strange decision if you ask me.

iRacing uses the same method as due to ping and other factors using full car off actually causes more issues with track extending to gain an advantage vs real life racing. 50% off rule is harder for drivers to navigate though due to differing car widths and different seating positions. The flip side is it does usually result in fairer racing online.

TKMSte66
02-10-2017, 13:16
iRacing uses the same method as due to ping and other factors using full car off actually causes more issues with track extending to gain an advantage vs real life racing. 50% off rule is harder for drivers to navigate though due to differing car widths and different seating positions. The flip side is it does usually result in fairer racing online.

Thanx.

LPlates
05-10-2017, 16:04
Deleting the next lap for a violation anywhere in the last sector seems overly harsh to me. Ideally it should only apply in sections of the track where an advantage can be carried into the next lap.

Sankyo
05-10-2017, 17:34
Deleting the next lap for a violation anywhere in the last sector seems overly harsh to me. Ideally it should only apply in sections of the track where an advantage can be carried into the next lap.

This is more complex than you'd think, though, as it's not necessarily only the last corner that would count. It'll take careful reviewing and possibly testing of every track. I'll note it down as future improvement, though.

cpcdem
06-10-2017, 02:08
This is more complex than you'd think, though, as it's not necessarily only the last corner that would count. It'll take careful reviewing and possibly testing of every track. I'll note it down as future improvement, though.

It was implemented like that in PCARS 1 though, wasn't it? At least I think I had only seen my next laps invalidated only when I cut the track in the last couple or so corners of the current lap, never in the beginning of sector 3. It felt very well implemented and also I hadn't seen a case where the system could be abused to take an advantage, but it is also possible that I just don't remember well enough.

Btw, I saw a note that the messaging will become more clear in the patch for when the next lap will be invalidated, which is very good. I think the messaging needs to be improved also for current lap invalidation, too. I just attempted a TT in California Highway, went through most of it fine, but at 80% I suddenly got a lap invalidation message while I was in the middle of the track. I understand that's because of a cut I probably made sometime earlier, but have no idea when and where, in order to avoid it next time. If the message pops up at the exact time of the infringement, like it did in the first game, I think all will be all very clear and intuitive again.

MaximusN
06-10-2017, 16:49
This is more complex than you'd think, though, as it's not necessarily only the last corner that would count. It'll take careful reviewing and possibly testing of every track. I'll note it down as future improvement, though.

2 corners should be far more than enough though. For single-player even last corner should do. To take the whole third sector into account(if that's the case now) is way overboard, that's for sure.