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napocapo69
25-09-2017, 23:25
Hi guys, I do not pretend to be a good driver, but I cannot keep the pace of the AI (even at low settings, 50% or 40%).
I was used to play PC1 at 70% of difficulty and Assetto Corsa at 90%, but really I cannot manage these cars in PC2. It seems that the cars have no grip.

I spent some time in configuring a manageable set-up of a Chevrolet C7R and then I set-up a race at Long Beach. My best time was around 1min 22secs and the world record at the moment is 1.18
The AI at 60% has an average lap time of 1min 16secs (at 50% the average AI lap time is still around 1.19). I even simulated a race at 120% of difficulty and the average AI lap time was 1.12

The point is not the challenge level of the IA itself (I can lower the bar to 35% and maybe have a chance); the point is that the cars are really difficult to handle, and the fun factor vanishes (it is quite a frustrating experience).

Iconiqk
25-09-2017, 23:41
Hmmmm. Strange, I've not raced at Long Beach yet, have turned a few laps there's but that's about it. Have you tried picking another track and having another go, with the same AI settings?

Norxman
26-09-2017, 00:05
I have had to turn it down from 90-ish to around 70-80 depending on tracks.

Assuming I'll crank it back up when I'm up to speed again.

pedrochapps
26-09-2017, 02:23
im not having that issue, the ai is tougher in pc2 tough. in pc1 i ran at around 85-90% in pc2 im at 75% with 50% aggression and they seem fine. as i get used to it i will up the difficulty

I would say try another track and see what the results are like

MLM_SPARCO
26-09-2017, 03:48
Yea depending on the track they seem like they're on rails going into corners twice the possible speed and losing absolutely no grip.I've noticed it the worst on Snetterton 200 on turn 4 I believe.

Zak757
26-09-2017, 03:54
Sometimes the AI is a challenge, sometimes it's a cakewalk, sometimes it's downright impossible. Their inconsistency and bizarre physics are really frustrating. I vary my difficulty between 50 and 80 depending on the track. They are slow in the straights for no reason but corner with impossible grip and precision.

alitomr1979
26-09-2017, 05:07
I started my career yesterday and I can not keep up the pace in formula rookie with default, 50% AI!!

I used to beat AI easily in PC1. I think I .used to race with AI at 75% to have a challenge.

Chicken Patty
26-09-2017, 05:34
I don't know what to tell you bud, I have mainly done all my racing in the C7.R and I find the car to grip extremely well. Fiddle with it a bit, tire pressure, compound, etc. Also don't be afraid to use TCS, the C7.R has it in real life. It's adjustable through the car settings so you can still use the gas to steer, but not to the point where any little throttle and the back end wants to go. Experiment with it, I went from running 4:10 laps at Lemans to running a PB of 4:00:38 which is a very fast lap for a GTE car around that track.

Twitch_6
26-09-2017, 05:54
There's a lot of people having issues with the AI, a lot of talk about it in the Ginetta GT5 related threads.

I did the Ginetta Jr Championship, the last 2 races, I had the AI at 95, 80 aggression. I won the final race by about 45 seconds. A complete cake walk.

I move on to the Ginetta GT5 Championship, round 1 at Oultan Island, I'm 8 seconds off the pace. After several retries, I lower the AI to 65. Im still slow, qualify last, but cheese the race by going to P4 on lap 1, then Trulli training the AI behind me (that's another thing, but different issue). Race 2 at Snetterton, I'm even more whoafully off he pace, due to the tire temp issue. Race 3 at Silverstone in the wet, I qualify last in the light rain. Go to P6 on the opening lap, fall 4 seconds back of P5 as the track dries, then as it rains for the last 3 laps I catch right up and go P2, but only because the AI crawls down eh wet straights really slowly (still on rails through corners though). Race 4 at Donnington National, I randomly increase the AI to 70, and qualify 1.3 seconds faster than P2 on a lap that I wasn't even trying.

To summarize that, I went from being nearly 2 seconds off the pace with AI at 65 to being 2 seconds ahead of the pack at 70. And that's after I cake walked the Jrs on 95.

The two races in the GT5 championship where I struggled, I wasn't a general lack of pace from me, it was specific corners. At Oultan Island, I cannot for the life of me match the AI pace and line through T1, even at 65. Same thing for T2. From where I have to brake for T1 to the exit of T2, the AI gaps me anywhere from 10-20 car lengths, in 2 corners!! However, the chicane on the backside of the circuit, I can gain 10-15 car lengths, just off the exit speed exiting the complex.

Snetterton 200, it's basically the same thing, different corners. Turn 4, the left hander at the end of the back straight, you brake under the bridge as you turn left, followed by a sharp right with a monster inside curb - the AI take that left nearly flat, just a dab of the brakes, sometimes riding the very bumpy red and wide curb on the left, then bend physics to make the right hander. The AI behaved the exact same way at this exact same corner in the PCAR 1 Clio Cup championship. Even if I follow the AI line through T4 with no intention of making T5, I cannot hold on to the rear of the car, it always steps out, no matter how much I tune. The AI simply have impossible levels of grip on this corner. All that said, again recurring from PCARS 1, the AI is really slow through T1, particularly through the apex and exit. They brake ok initially, but then re-brake near the apex, and then just sort of plod along through the exit.

Last thing I've noticed with the AI, on many different difficulty and agression settings, on different tracks, diffeeent weather conditions - they're really slow in a straight line. Sometimes it's laughable how slow they go down the straights. Other times it's not as bad, but still really noticeable. They'll be on rails through the corners, then seem like they're short shifting to top gear at the start of every straight.

Oh, and the AI is incredibly slow off the line. You can hear it...every car makes the same monotone sound, at like maybe 1/4 throttle as though they're stuck on the pit limiter. I found this with AI settings ranging from 65-95. Every race, I can start last, and be top 10 by T1, top 5 by the end of the 1st lap. And cleanly too, no contact. With aggression set to 80.


Oh, but if you do the invititational events, or manufacturer events, the AI is faster. In the U.K. Lightweight race, in the crazy wet at Silverstone, it's nearly impossible to drive either the Caterham or KTM in a straight line....but the AI Cruze by like it's dry, not a hint of wheelspin.


The only thing I can conclude about the AI is that it's confusing as can be. I was hoping to spent some time tweaking it for my liking, setting it once, and then slowly increasing it as I get better. Instead it feels like I need to adjust it by 10-20 points each race, just to have a reasonable "race", where I'm not either miles ahead or miles behind.

fsuarez79
26-09-2017, 06:02
Sometimes the AI is a challenge, sometimes it's a cakewalk, sometimes it's downright impossible. Their inconsistency and bizarre physics are really frustrating. I vary my difficulty between 50 and 80 depending on the track. They are slow in the straights for no reason but corner with impossible grip and precision.

You just summed it up perfectly. Their inconsistency is very frustrating. They're on rails on some corners, slow on others, and slow on straights. How can you do a series with IDENTICAL cars if you just fly by them on the straights and they rear bump you on some corners with impossible grip? It's ridiculous and takes all realism away.

And if that wasn't enough, on rain they're even worse. Quali with no rain, all good and challenging but in the race with rain I ended up passing GT3's with with a Touring Car for crying out loud.

AitchPattern
26-09-2017, 06:25
For anyone who truly wants to see the AI disparity in action try the following:

Setup a race at SUGO
Set AI to whatever you want (I used 60/50 as I was testing other things and not racing)
Select the GTE Ford
Race!

The AI were surprisingly decent!

Now change only the vehicle and select GT3 McLaren or Ferrari.
The AI go from being quite decent, decent times, relatively decent racing etiquette... to... so easy you can beat them if you only stay in 2rd the entire race! They are essentially OFF! :)

The difference between them was literally night and day, it was like a different game! But test it for yourself it's a laugh more than anything else :)

Brett_NZ
26-09-2017, 06:45
Wicked good to hear I'm not the only struggling with AI. I've come from running 100 % AI in PC1 to 60 %in Pc2. It's awesome struggling although wish the little buggers weren't so quick lol. In the Gt4 class at moment finding it a real challenge

m355y
26-09-2017, 06:58
I think the AI is poorly balanced at the moment, even in GT3 where it was so good in the last game. It seems to vary a lot from track to track. I've been on 60-70% which is maybe an ambitious starting point (especially using a pad) but on a lot of tracks I'm nowhere - the frustrating thing is that the AI are really slow in some places so I'm running into the back of them but as an overall lap time I'm slower. Just needs to be balanced out. I had to turn off damage because I was constantly bombing around feeling quite positive then suddenly you get to a slower corner and the AI are virtually stopped - bye bye front wing.

Finally started having some fun last night in an Indycar race at COTA though, where I slotted into about fifth place and spent a fair few laps fighting with the guy in front and watching my gap to the leader rise and fall depending on how good my laps were. Thought finally, I've kinda found a good setting. But then tried Daytona road course and was back to being hopeless. It reminded me how much potential there is here, though. When it's working right, it's a real challenge. You just need to feel like it's your skill/lack of it that will make the difference, not the strange setting of the AI.

chris465
26-09-2017, 07:13
In roads cars I get a good race at 50-60%
In any of the race cars I have to peg it right down to even see which way they have gone!

With PC1 I played and had good races at 85% for everything.

drathuu
26-09-2017, 10:03
A point to note at 80% and above the AI will use car setups .. so they will become quite a lot quicker than 79 and less.. (under 80 they use default setups).

But yes there is definately inconsistency between car classes at same track.

napocapo69
26-09-2017, 13:06
Thank you Chicken Patty for the tips.
I use the TCS, which helps especially when tyres are cold.
I also managed to solve an issue with the brakes (it was due to the brakes sensitivity settings). I also sorted out my occasional spins (the car was too low).
Overall now I'm able to manage the C7R, but I' still slow.
By the way, why there is an ABS setting (in the car setup) for C7R if the C7R has no ABS? Whatever.

The major issue I still have, is that the downshfting is slow. I understand that there are RPM ranges for shifting but it seems that SMS pushed this constraint a bit too far.
I watched the replays and noticed that the AI players actually do not only brake more efficiently but they also downshift much more quickly, and this is why they are so competitive in corners making the AI is so challenging in slow circuits.
When approaching tight corners the AI delays the braking (without any stability issue) and downshifts 3-4 gears at the very last moment.

I have to improve, definitely, but there is something to fix in the AI. I'd like to start a career but I do not want to fix the challenge level every race.

D3vilDriver
26-09-2017, 13:15
What are you people complaining about? That you are to slow?
And now you blame the AI for being, well, AI!

Just keep practicing and you eventually beat the AI. No matter their behavior.
Otherwise just play Multiplayer. Ah well, all the other people can't race either.
Well, Time Attack it is. Oh damn.. You are 10 Seconds behind the leader, another sorcery..

lol

Stop complaining about unnecessary things, enjoy and learn the game.
Or go to a real life Racetrack.

napocapo69
26-09-2017, 13:23
For anyone who truly wants to see the AI disparity in action try the following:

Setup a race at SUGO
Set AI to whatever you want (I used 60/50 as I was testing other things and not racing)
Select the GTE Ford
Race!

The AI were surprisingly decent!

Now change only the vehicle and select GT3 McLaren or Ferrari.
The AI go from being quite decent, decent times, relatively decent racing etiquette... to... so easy you can beat them if you only stay in 2rd the entire race! They are essentially OFF! :)

The difference between them was literally night and day, it was like a different game! But test it for yourself it's a laugh more than anything else :)

Ok, I'll give it a try.
Do me a favour. Do a race (with AI set at 60%) at Long Beach (either with Chevrolet C7R or Audi R8 LMS) and tell me your best lap times (qualifying and race) and the AI (same car as yours) best lap times (qualifying and race).
This is waht I got with a C7R: I did 1:23 in qualifying and 1:24 in race. The AI did (in average) 1:19:something in qualifying and the best laptimes in race ranged from 1:22:something to 1:25:something. The AI was 6 seconds (SIX SECONDS!) faster in qualifying than in race. We have a problem here.

napocapo69
26-09-2017, 13:26
What are you people complaining about? That you are to slow?
And now you blame the AI for being, well, AI!

Just keep practicing and you eventually beat the AI. No matter their behavior.
Otherwise just play Multiplayer. Ah well, all the other people can't race either.
Well, Time Attack it is. Oh damn.. You are 10 Seconds behind the leader, another sorcery..

lol

Stop complaining about unnecessary things, enjoy and learn the game.
Or go to a real life Racetrack.

You missed the point.
We are not complaining about the difficulty. We are complaining about the consistency, which is key if you want to play the career mode. It is not a detail. It is a key issue.

PeteUplink
26-09-2017, 13:31
The AI has always been the thing that lets down Project Cars. I don't know what they're trying to do with it, but what they do do results in AI racers that are massively quick at one circuit and deathly slow at another circuit. It's nice to see that they've fixed the kamikaze AI from the first game, but the AI in this game it's as good as it could be either.

I understand that the develoeprs are trying to make a "realistic" AI that is dynamic and makes errors, but I'd rather have a pretty basic, fairly robotic, AI that is quick and follows the racing line (like the AI in the original Gran Turismo), so that it's consistent around all the tracks and can be worked on later to be more dynamic and fluid, than the current PCars AI that seems like the developers are trying to reinvent the wheel all the time.

Personally I think it's time for the AI to go back to school. Concentrate on making one that's quick around all circuits and avoids collisions, then start to build up the randomness and mistakes to make their behavior more realistic.

I'm not wishing to be rude, but the way the AI behaves gives me reason to think that it's based on some iteration of the GTR/GTR2 AI... Which, I'm afraid to say, wasn't great to begin with. I think SMS need a new base to build their AI from.

In short... Start over.

napocapo69
26-09-2017, 13:36
Hmmmm. Strange, I've not raced at Long Beach yet, have turned a few laps there's but that's about it. Have you tried picking another track and having another go, with the same AI settings?

I did as you suggested.

I played the same circuit and same AI level (60%) with a different car (Audi R8 LMS). Overall same outcome. AI cars had best laps in the range of 1:16 (I'll just remind that the record is 1:18) in qualifying.
Then I played a different circuit (Monza) and same AI level (60%) with same car (C7R). The race was more balanced. I was a bit slower but in a reasonble manner considering that I did not spend time in setting up the car. Anyway AI was faster than the current world record 1:50.
It appears clear that PC2 is much more challenging than PC1 (which is OK). But it is also highly inconsistent when it comes to qualifying vs race times and slow circuits vs fast ones.

SenorPez
26-09-2017, 13:43
Seems like it's the same issues that plagued the AI in Project CARS: Insanely fast on some corners, laughably slow on others, all modified by the track, in which some AI levels were practically unbeatable and others couldn't win a race if the player was driving a lawnmower.

zimbarbaluba
26-09-2017, 13:46
There's a lot of people having issues with the AI, a lot of talk about it in the Ginetta GT5 related threads.

I did the Ginetta Jr Championship, the last 2 races, I had the AI at 95, 80 aggression. I won the final race by about 45 seconds. A complete cake walk.

.... .

Everything you've said here were points I was going to make. It's almost impossible to have a decent race when they are so inconsistent. I've taken to holding half throttle off the line until the first corner otherwise even if I qualify mid pack I'm several seconds clear of the field after the first few corners.

Don't get me started about mind bending physics, Snetterton is a good example and I think it's because the AI isn't affected by braking and turning at the same time, the last sector at Snetterton has two corners like this.

pri3st
26-09-2017, 14:05
Yes. More I play it more I think that AI is using some very simplified physics model. Great game apart from that ,hope they fix it.

ECT CHEF
26-09-2017, 14:13
Don't know what all this inconsistency is about, yes the AI is better at tracks than others. It's been like this with other games for awhile, if you want bad AI look at Forzas Drivatars. What raceroom did with there AI is the closest you'll get with consistency. I race in the UK superlites (It's the path for the WEC in the end) and so far have had quite a battle on all the tracks. In qualifying the times have been very close, I play with 92% difficulty and 65% aggression. The last race at Donnington I placed P1 with P2 .087 behind, now this race a silverstone national in practice I was P1 with P2 .300 behind (Called it a night before it was over).

Some of the tracks do take time to learn if you never raced on it or have little exposure. But once you get the hang of the track and where to attack, you'll be right up there with the AI. So some do need to learn the track but at times making it less difficult will bring it down to your level.

PeteUplink
26-09-2017, 14:22
I find one of the best ways to get used to the AI, or tune the difficulty for certain tracks, is to set up a 10 lap race with 1 AI car and follow it to find out where it's faster than me and where it's slower than me.

The AI brake very oddly in Pcars. They seem to brake very early, then lose a massive amount of speed and crawl through the apex of some corners. This can catch out the player who's expecting the AI to carry the same speed as they are through the corner only to find that they've stopped on a dime and you've crashed into the back of them. On the flip side of this we have some corners where the AI are glued to the track and you simply can't stay with them. Turn 1 at Oulton and turns 1 and 9 at Silverstone are good examples.

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but there was a game that was made in 1996 called Grand Prix 2 that had brilliant AI. It defended against the player. it was fast and consistent on all tracks. It also made mistakes when pushed... I used to play that on my 486 100Mhz IBM compatible PC with 16MB RAM and a 1MB graphics card. I find it odd that, with todays technology, they can't make AI that's better. But AI seems to be something that developers of racing sims struggle with these days.

But then, if you're relying on the majority of the players engaging in online races against each other, you really don't need to spend that much time making the AI good. Which is a sad effect of the internet connected gaming environment we have these days.

Roger Prynne
26-09-2017, 16:19
I find one of the best ways to get used to the AI, or tune the difficulty for certain tracks, is to set up a 10 lap race with 1 AI car and follow it to find out where it's faster than me and where it's slower than me.

The AI brake very oddly in Pcars. They seem to brake very early, then lose a massive amount of speed and crawl through the apex of some corners. This can catch out the player who's expecting the AI to carry the same speed as they are through the corner only to find that they've stopped on a dime and you've crashed into the back of them. On the flip side of this we have some corners where the AI are glued to the track and you simply can't stay with them. Turn 1 at Oulton and turns 1 and 9 at Silverstone are good examples.

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but there was a game that was made in 1996 called Grand Prix 2 that had brilliant AI. It defended against the player. it was fast and consistent on all tracks. It also made mistakes when pushed... I used to play that on my 486 100Mhz IBM compatible PC with 16MB RAM and a 1MB graphics card. I find it odd that, with todays technology, they can't make AI that's better. But AI seems to be something that developers of racing sims struggle with these days.

But then, if you're relying on the majority of the players engaging in online races against each other, you really don't need to spend that much time making the AI good. Which is a sad effect of the internet connected gaming environment we have these days.
You're joking are you not, the amount of work that went into our AI is phenomenal.

Also.....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1360124&viewfull=1#post1360124

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50638-Project-CARS-2-general-discussion-thread&p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1359697&viewfull=1#post1359697

Twitch_6
26-09-2017, 16:47
You're joking are you not, the amount of work that went into our AI is phenomenal.

Also.....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1360124&viewfull=1#post1360124

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50638-Project-CARS-2-general-discussion-thread&p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1359697&viewfull=1#post1359697
Then why the hell does the AI behave competent unrealistic is specific corners, like Snetterton 200 T4....the EXACT same way they behaved in PC1.

You need to cool it with the attitude Mr Moderator. Your company sold people an incomplete and unpolished product. We are trying to work with SnS to help fix this situation, but arrogance from the mod team is completely uncalled for. This is now the 3rd instance I've seen of a mod basically blaming the game's issues on the player.

You're either full of crap and haven't played your own game, or younay it on a perfect system under perfect conditions, and don't understand the issues people are having.

It's a good thing you're a mod on a video game forum, and didn't need to find employment in the retail sector. You'd be fired in a heartbeat.

fsuarez79
26-09-2017, 17:34
You're joking are you not, the amount of work that went into our AI is phenomenal.

LMAO!!

Well, the "amount of work" you put into something doesn't really count, what really counts is the quality of the product, and for now it is way way far from phenomenal.

I appreciate it's been looked into but please, don't come here and say it's phenomenal, you just look like a fool

maTech
26-09-2017, 17:57
The ai is good that is a fact. Much better than in pc1. But there are a lot of bugs that is a fact, some I posted in another thread. They will work on the ai the next 6 months thats a fact too.

Horkheimer
26-09-2017, 18:02
You're joking are you not, the amount of work that went into our AI is phenomenal.

Good point. That's what I'm going to tell MY customers in the future in case they are not satisfied with a product I delivered. Will make life so much easier. Why didn't I think of this before, instead of always trying to solve the issue and striving for improvement?

Roger Prynne
26-09-2017, 18:03
Then why the hell does the AI behave competent unrealistic is specific corners, like Snetterton 200 T4....the EXACT same way they behaved in PC1.

You need to cool it with the attitude Mr Moderator. Your company sold people an incomplete and unpolished product. We are trying to work with SnS to help fix this situation, but arrogance from the mod team is completely uncalled for. This is now the 3rd instance I've seen of a mod basically blaming the game's issues on the player.

You're either full of crap and haven't played your own game, or younay it on a perfect system under perfect conditions, and don't understand the issues people are having.

It's a good thing you're a mod on a video game forum, and didn't need to find employment in the retail sector. You'd be fired in a heartbeat.

I'll tell you what.... GOOD BYE

Roger Prynne
26-09-2017, 18:05
LMAO!!

Well, the "amount of work" you put into something doesn't really count, what really counts is the quality of the product, and for now it is way way far from phenomenal.

I appreciate it's been looked into but please, don't come here and say it's phenomenal, you just look like a fool

And GOOD BYE to you as well.

Roger Prynne
26-09-2017, 18:06
Anyone else want a go at me?
Bring it on.

Mad Al
26-09-2017, 18:09
Anyone else want a go at me?
Yeah, I'll give it a go, just need to nick your Zimmer frame, then you'll be buggered ;)

Roger Prynne
26-09-2017, 18:12
^LOL

Jazzbucca
26-09-2017, 18:16
Getting back on topic - this is the thing that's putting me off the game at the moment. The AI at Oulton Park is phenomenal. There is no way they can carry that much speed into the first corner. I lose 2 seconds easily there. Yet when I drive other tracks, using the same difficulty, the AI is terrible. So i spend my time increasing / decreasing difficulty so I get a balanced race.

This should not happen, and I can only assume this will be tweaked in patches. If not, I will say goodbye.

maTech
26-09-2017, 18:36
Is it useful to have a thread where we collect all ai related bugs or do the developers already know most of the bugs?

Konan
26-09-2017, 18:37
We report as many as we encounter/get pointed at...

cornishbrooksy
26-09-2017, 18:41
Yeh really dont worry, the mod team (me excluded!), are doing a phenomenal job collecting all of this and getting it straight to SMS and where it needs to be.....if theres a thread about something, its been seen i guarantee it.

maTech
26-09-2017, 18:48
Oh i am sorry i did not want to doubt you all are doing a phenomenal job! I only thought it would be easier to read or to find in a specific thread. But if you guys keep an overview with all these threads its even more phenomenal :)

Konan
26-09-2017, 18:52
We appreciate your willingness to help...it's actually a breath of fresh air...so thanks for that :cool:

Mad Al
26-09-2017, 19:50
We appreciate your willingness to help...it's actually a breath of fresh air...so thanks for that :cool:

I'm impressed you are spending as much time here as you are, considering you were so deprived of PC2.. ;)

Konan
26-09-2017, 19:54
I'm impressed you are spending as much time here as you are, considering you were so deprived of PC2.. ;)

Had a little playing time today...i have a measly 13 hours until now...love the game but have other priorities ATM :cool:

Edit:can't shake my forum addiction to be honest...LOL

Horkheimer
26-09-2017, 20:06
Anyone else want a go at me?
Bring it on.

You're probably going to tell me you put a whole lot of work into it, but your spelling is even worse than your "moderating" behaviour. Bye!

Konan
26-09-2017, 20:10
You're probably going to tell me you put a whole lot of work into it, but your spelling is even worse than your "moderating" behaviour. Bye!

C ya...

Animera
26-09-2017, 20:18
I'm having awesome races with the AI at 80/50.
Treat them like you would a human player and they're fun to race with.

The only thing I've found so far is they're slow in the rain.

Chicken Patty
26-09-2017, 20:23
Well it was confirmed to me in a thread I made that most issues if not all that have been reported with the AI have beenn fixed, and it will roll out with the next patch. It can get frustrating but it's not terrible. After some tweaking last night I got the AI to be acceptable for now. Yeah some inconsistencies are there but it's playable. Honestly no game is perfect, and I've played a good amount of them, and I like project cars the most. Give it time, sure we would all like a perfect game from the get go but that rarely happens, if it happens at all. I'm sure after the first patch it will be much much better. I can't wait!

Konan
26-09-2017, 20:38
Well it was confirmed to me in a thread I made that most issues if not all that have been reported with the AI have beenn fixed, and it will roll out with the next patch. It can get frustrating but it's not terrible. After some tweaking last night I got the AI to be acceptable for now. Yeah some inconsistencies are there but it's playable. Honestly no game is perfect, and I've played a good amount of them, and I like project cars the most. Give it time, sure we would all like a perfect game from the get go but that rarely happens, if it happens at all. I'm sure after the first patch it will be much much better. I can't wait!

I have to correct you here: the AI will be worked on with every patch and this for at least six months so they will gradually improve...
This doesn't mean they will or won't massively improve with the next patch...it all depends on what specifically will be worked on...

Trooper117
26-09-2017, 21:35
Good to hear :)
Nice to know the work continues... really enjoying the game so far!

dan2312
26-09-2017, 22:41
I have one thing to say about the AI, I would like them to really aggressive with each other and have slightly different racing personalities rather than totally identical.

The only reason i say this is because ive been to the BTCC for many years\times and they have a support race from the Junior Ginettas and the Clio's, and sometimes they shove and push to fight for a place and a majority of a time it leads to a nasty accident, Sometimes its 3\4 cars fighting for first place. See if you can find a Video of the Clio race at donnington park this year where there was a mighty pile up. I think it was race one of three.

And if i got shoved out of a race for first and crashed out or not i would accept it. :D I know it sounds insane.

Forward that to SMS and give me any feedback if it can be done! thanx.

PeteUplink
26-09-2017, 22:46
You're joking are you not, the amount of work that went into our AI is phenomenal.

Also.....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1360124&viewfull=1#post1360124

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50638-Project-CARS-2-general-discussion-thread&p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1359697&viewfull=1#post1359697

No I'm not joking.

When I was around 8 years old I put a lot of work into repainting the downstairs toilet. I was very proud of it when I was finished. It wasn't until I was older that I realised what a mess it was.

No matter how much work you put into it, the AI is, unfortunately, still poor. It's inconsistent across a wide range of tracks, being super fast on some and deadly slow on others, and it's unpredictable and offten slams the brakes on in odd places in ways that real racing drivers wouldn't do. They also move in the braking zones, which is classed as a dangerous move in modern motorsports and results in drivers getting penalties in real life. This probably comes from the fact that it's an iteration of ther GTR/GTR2 AI, which really wasn't all the great to begin with. Many of the problems we see with PCars 1 & 2 we saw with GTR 12 years ago.

That's why I reckon for the next Project Cars they really should redesign the AI from the ground up, to make sure they get rid of the underlying problems with it.

Now I'm sorry if my words offend you. But sometimes the truth hurts.

Mr.Smoke
26-09-2017, 22:53
The AI isnt difficult to beat on their default settings so long as you can be on the racing line, and be smooth. At every track Ive raced them on with default AI settings I can easily beat their lap times by a few seconds, even more on longer tracks like Spa.

Chicken Patty
27-09-2017, 00:01
I have to correct you here: the AI will be worked on with every patch and this for at least six months so they will gradually improve...
This doesn't mean they will or won't massively improve with the next patch...it all depends on what specifically will be worked on...

I misunderstood then, but it's okay I know it's being worked on and with time it'll get better. That's what counts in my book.

Iconiqk
27-09-2017, 01:26
This topic has been beaten to death since release. I think it's safe to say the AI can be inconsistent at times but will surely be improved upon with future patches. I can only imagine the uphill battle of programming AI, especially with as many variables as this game is able to produce. Just like in all aspects of life, there is room for improvement buts it's certainly not game breaking. Looking foward to future content/patches and getting everything dialed in.

davidt33
27-09-2017, 01:52
I started my career yesterday and I can not keep up the pace in formula rookie with default, 50% AI!!

I used to beat AI easily in PC1. I think I .used to race with AI at 75% to have a challenge.

Similar experience with me on same Career. Had expressed my sentiment on another thread on AI before seeing this one but this thread better reflects my own experience. It's been a real bummer thus far and very frustrating.

MBullock
27-09-2017, 02:38
Can I also get some clarification on the AI/game? When exiting the pits, is the speed limit off when you get to the light (that doesnt appear to be working) or the set of green cones with the speed limit? I can't count the number of times pulling out of pit lane I keep getting ran in the back by the AI waiting to pass the green cones to turn the pit limiter off. Is it also confirmed that the AI cars grip is unaffected by weather temperatures like our grip is?

Azure Flare
27-09-2017, 03:09
My first race was in the NSX GT3 at the Red Bull Ring, with 15 other cars. I set the AI to 100%, with 40% aggression. I started 7th (random grid position), and I was fighting for the lead within the first few corners. At the end of the race (just 5 laps) I had a lead of about 2.7 seconds. I consider my driving to be mostly above-average.

peterCars
27-09-2017, 03:16
the AI isn't phenomenal, it is miraculous in the corners (unless there is a bottleneck), and then pathetic as I can easily overtake them as they slow down on the straights.
I had to go down to 15% difficulty (Formula A) , but had to put on TC to get back up to 40%. still working on it, and I hope the developers are too even if some of them make out here like unempathetic bandits.
really enjoying the game and tweaking to improve like all pros and enthusiasts should.

edit:I got a PM warning about my post above, point taken, surprised it wasn't deleted though.

Chicken Patty
27-09-2017, 03:20
I seem to have found a sweet spot for the AI with difficulty at 90%, and agressiveness at 35%. They seem to behave very decent, yet still put up a challenge.

Azure Flare
27-09-2017, 03:58
I seem to have found a sweet spot for the AI with difficulty at 90%, and agressiveness at 35%. They seem to behave very decent, yet still put up a challenge.

35% is about right for anything that isn't open wheel, and you want to much contact. You might want to set it lower for open wheel cars since contact is the one thing you'll want to avoid most.

Chicken Patty
27-09-2017, 04:12
I'll keep that in mind, so far for multi class LMP2/3, GTE, GT3 works great.

maTech
27-09-2017, 07:34
35% is about right for anything that isn't open wheel, and you want to much contact. You might want to set it lower for open wheel cars since contact is the one thing you'll want to avoid most.

I have to say most time I do multiclass races only and for that I want to tell you some examples that make these races too easy:

- had a crawling car on track. The ai driver in front of me closed up to the crawling car, braked heavily, stayed some seconds behind the crawling car than goes to the left and started overtaking (all this on a straight road)
- this is the same with the backmarkers, ai looses a lot of time there because they stay too long behind them instead of using their speed excess

I noticed these things on Daytona Road Course and Algarve with LMP2, LMP3, GTE and GT3 classes. I did not test other combinations till now. Ai strength on 85% and aggressiveness on 75%. So for this example I can't imagine that it will be better with 35% aggressiveness. I am sure it will vary from track to track. So if I answer the topic question "Cannot beat the AI. Can you?": Yes I can even on 120% (in a multiclass race) at the latest when ai is closing up to the backmarkers. Perhaps it is a known problem already I don't know, wanted to share my experiences only :)

Want to add: Without backmarkers ai is very good (too good for me :D)

DiederickKwarktas
27-09-2017, 12:03
The carreer is pretty much unplayable as it is. Was running a race on the redbull ring in the mixed class championship(gt3,lmp3 and lmp2) had the Ai on 105% and in the dry it was all fine and dandy although they made up waay too much time through the twisty bit(different driving model than my own car it seems) but then lost all their time again in the hard braking zones which made our laptimes very close. But then when the rain came i was lapping faster than the LMP2 cars, dont think thats supposed to happen.

headder
27-09-2017, 12:34
For some reason, for me, putting the AI skill above 55% makes them to run through the corners like an aliens with a grip like on rails, but easy to pass on straights.

With the aggressiveness above 35% they drive like a blind mad drivers in Carmageddon. Crashing into each other without any sense.

For me the AI is kida inconsistent atm, that's not the level of AI in Assetto Corsa :( I can't find the optimum in pCars2 atm.

Mr Shoes
27-09-2017, 13:06
Yea depending on the track they seem like they're on rails going into corners twice the possible speed and losing absolutely no grip.I've noticed it the worst on Snetterton 200 on turn 4 I believe.

Yes, exactly this. I've noticed it on Redbull Ring National as well. And all of Caldwell Park, where they seem glued to the road, which is super bumpy and hard to stay on. Glad it's not just me.

dan2312
27-09-2017, 13:22
Ive just done Brands Hatch Indy with the Clios race and as i was pottering around in 10th i was watching the AI and from 9th through to 4th they all followed in a line about 10ft-15ft apart with no REAL desire to pass each other.

I think this needs sorting out, it makes the AI look awful, no one was gaining or losing ground from one another, it just looked like a train ride going round a track.

Maximum11
27-09-2017, 13:31
Totally agree with you guys. I made my way to the championship podium with the Ginetta GT5, only to spend hours trying to set up the Formula C to not oversteer in every downhill turn in Brno. No success so far. The AI below 80 is supposedly using the default setup, but I have never seen any of these guys struggling like I do. I've noticed too that at 55% difficulty the guys would be slow in the straights but still super quick in turns. Cleary unplayable.

headder
27-09-2017, 13:49
I've noticed too that at 55% difficulty the guys would be slow in the straights but still super quick in turns. Cleary unplayable.

Yeah... sleeping on straights, storming on turns like a TGV trains on rails.

SLOPPY1000
27-09-2017, 14:40
I started my career yesterday and I can not keep up the pace in formula rookie with default, 50% AI!!

I used to beat AI easily in PC1. I think I .used to race with AI at 75% to have a challenge.

Exactly the same for me, I'm taking comfort in knowing it ain't just me, project bobsleigh 2 lol

creepyd
27-09-2017, 16:22
Basically all the same exact problems PC1 had. I'm not happy about that tbh.
I said in the early days of PC1 that 100% difficulty should basically match the top times set by players, automatic scaling.
At the very least, let have the option to have the AI difficulty adjust during the race to be faster or slower to be close to you.

xtro
27-09-2017, 16:26
I'm not sure if that's a joke but on PS4 I think I found the perfect number for the AI. 33 ... Tested on multiple tracks and classes... Weird that 30 or 35 felt completely off in comparison

davidt33
29-09-2017, 17:17
We may have some good news folks. (29 Sept 2017). Let's hope for the best.
----->
Project Cars 2 Patch 1.1.3 Changelog

A new patch for Project Cars 2 has just gone live on PC, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. It updates the game to version 1.1.3 and according to the details provided in the patch notes, the update carries fix for issues that were mostly reported by the players on the launch day itself. So it's good to know that Slightly Mad Studios is giving the top-most priority to the fans feedback. The update comes with improvements to the AI, fix for a crash when players used a large Super Sampling values, the crash caused by missing animated meshes and many other issues.

https://www.gamepur.com/news/27664-project-cars-2-patch-113-changelog.html

rosko
29-09-2017, 17:51
It was way too easy for me in the specific track car combo.

Quatzu
29-09-2017, 19:20
The game has been out a week. Being a good driver takes time. I love the fact that you can't really win unless every lap is perfect. That's realism.

Leper Messiah
29-09-2017, 19:36
come on people get some perspective. I posted this at Race Dept:

Like many I am disappointed with the Ai issues, but please apply some common sense and realise what a gargantuan task Ai is now. And SMS have further muddied the already murky waters with livetrack. How long did it take AC to get decent Ai? And in relative terms the track evolution is far more static then Pcars. RF2 is arguably top dog in track evolution but has a much smaller car and track roster than Pcars, work out the man hours needed to tweak every track and every car to the nth degree....we basically wouldn't see the game released. I've been testing like mad the past two days, Ginetta GT5 at Brands Indy Summers day dry and summers day wet. I've put in about 4-5 hours just one car and one track and two of the many weather conditions and just one of the four seasons. It is actually impossible to test every car/track/season/time/weather combo in the game.

rosko
29-09-2017, 19:43
come on people get some perspective. I posted this at Race Dept:

Like many I am disappointed with the Ai issues, but please apply some common sense and realise what a gargantuan task Ai is now. And SMS have further muddied the already murky waters with livetrack. How long did it take AC to get decent Ai? And in relative terms the track evolution is far more static then Pcars. RF2 is arguably top dog in track evolution but has a much smaller car and track roster than Pcars, work out the man hours needed to tweak every track and every car to the nth degree....we basically wouldn't see the game released. I've been testing like mad the past two days, Ginetta GT5 at Brands Indy Summers day dry and summers day wet. I've put in about 4-5 hours just one car and one track and two of the many weather conditions and just one of the four seasons. It is actually impossible to test every car/track/season/time/weather combo in the game.

Yes but you reap what you sow. SMS are very confident in the hype run up & promise lots of things i think this is why they get more of a grilling.

Konan
29-09-2017, 19:46
IIRC...it was the general public begging to know what would be in the game...

Leper Messiah
29-09-2017, 19:48
Yes but you reap what you sow. SMS are very confident in the hype run up & promise lots of things i think this is why they get more of a grilling.

That's marketing, if in this day and age you don't take marketing with a massive pinch of salt then I just shake my head.

rosko
29-09-2017, 20:06
That's marketing, if in this day and age you don't take marketing with a massive pinch of salt then I just shake my head.

Well yes i agree but many find it obnoxious. They will line up to find fault.

LukeC1991
29-09-2017, 20:49
For me I have to move the difficulty between 70 and 120 depending on class and track. AI are OP in some and shockingly bad in others.

peterCars
30-09-2017, 01:48
[off topic, maybe]
looking on the bright side and having just finished D F Jones fictional book from 1970 Colossus:The Forbin Project about an AI exponentially developing and turning into a threat to humanity, perhaps we should be grateful for Keystone Cops AI.... and a really bright AI would probably just let me win so I enjoy the game more. carefull what you wish for. then again, we don't get what we need so far with this game.

MBullock
30-09-2017, 04:03
come on people get some perspective. I posted this at Race Dept:

Like many I am disappointed with the Ai issues, but please apply some common sense and realise what a gargantuan task Ai is now. And SMS have further muddied the already murky waters with livetrack. How long did it take AC to get decent Ai? And in relative terms the track evolution is far more static then Pcars. RF2 is arguably top dog in track evolution but has a much smaller car and track roster than Pcars, work out the man hours needed to tweak every track and every car to the nth degree....we basically wouldn't see the game released. I've been testing like mad the past two days, Ginetta GT5 at Brands Indy Summers day dry and summers day wet. I've put in about 4-5 hours just one car and one track and two of the many weather conditions and just one of the four seasons. It is actually impossible to test every car/track/season/time/weather combo in the game.

In the custom race setups I would agree with you. Testing every car in every condition with how the AI responded is a daunting task. I would have thought the career mode would have been vetted a bit more than it has. It doesnít take long to notice either. Formula C at Road America, I canít keep the car on the track, when the AI can leave the pedal floored and take it with their awesome traction.

Leper Messiah
30-09-2017, 08:20
Well yes i agree but many find it obnoxious. They will line up to find fault.

every single games marketing has it as "bestest game evah!!" and every single game ships with bugs and flaws.

Leper Messiah
30-09-2017, 08:21
In the custom race setups I would agree with you. Testing every car in every condition with how the AI responded is a daunting task. I would have thought the career mode would have been vetted a bit more than it has. It doesn’t take long to notice either. Formula C at Road America, I can’t keep the car on the track, when the AI can leave the pedal floored and take it with their awesome traction.

yeah that's a very valid point career races should have had the most attention, that's abit of a bad oversight from SMS there. If they continue to insist on scripted weather for PC3, they should ensure the career car track weather combos are as well tested as can be. Hopefully the next career will not have scripted weather (please god!).

Raklodder
30-09-2017, 09:14
I wasn't expecting that (not sure if placebo or not) but they beat me last night on Oulton Park.

Mad Al
30-09-2017, 09:29
Don't forget bugs can creep in at the very last second, it only takes a little change to one of the myriad values in the many systems being modelled and one combination could stop working as intended...

testing every single car/track/weather combo is basically an impossibly large task.. just doing one lap in each car at each track in each season with only one single fixed weather type, that's roughly 160,000 combinations. If it took an average of 4 minutes to run one test, that would take around 1 1/3 man years of solid effort to complete .. then repeat for each tyre type, for each weather type and across long runs to test endurance and with AI settings for both speed and aggression...

Roger Prynne
30-09-2017, 09:41
Don't forget bugs can creep in at the very last second, it only takes a little change to one of the myriad values in the many systems being modelled and one combination could stop working as intended...

testing every single car/track/weather combo is basically an impossibly large task.. just doing one lap in each car at each track in each season with only one single fixed weather type, that's roughly 160,000 combinations. If it took an average of 4 minutes to run one test, that would take around 1 1/3 man years of solid effort to complete .. then repeat for each tyre type, for each weather type and across long runs to test endurance and with AI settings for both speed and aggression...

Never really worked it out like that, but that is quite insane when you think about it.

Mad Al
30-09-2017, 09:43
Never really worked it out like that, but that is quite insane when you think about it.

What, the amount of time, or that I'm anal enough to even do the numbers ;)

lazarov27
30-09-2017, 09:48
The above assumes manual testing... depending how vehicle and track programming models are done, it should be possible to have automated testing of vehicle and track interaction

Machinist90
30-09-2017, 10:01
it's frustrating how unbalanced the AI in career is...always checking their pace in practice,exiting to adjust strength...took the fun right out of career mode for me

Roger Prynne
30-09-2017, 10:35
What, the amount of time, or that I'm anal enough to even do the numbers ;)

Both of course, but you knew I'd say that :biggrin-new:

Steve Dean
30-09-2017, 11:40
We may have some good news folks. (29 Sept 2017). Let's hope for the best.
----->
Project Cars 2 Patch 1.1.3 Changelog

A new patch for Project Cars 2 has just gone live on PC, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. It updates the game to version 1.1.3 and according to the details provided in the patch notes, the update carries fix for issues that were mostly reported by the players on the launch day itself. So it's good to know that Slightly Mad Studios is giving the top-most priority to the fans feedback. The update comes with improvements to the AI, fix for a crash when players used a large Super Sampling values, the crash caused by missing animated meshes and many other issues.

https://www.gamepur.com/news/27664-project-cars-2-patch-113-changelog.html

This isn't live on console yet at least not on PS4 mine still on V1.03 eager to try that update to see if AI is bit more consistent had similar issues to everyone else in this thread, wouldn't be too bad if could change the AI difficulty settings in the options while in a session like you can with most other options but is what it is for now.

Slightly off topic compared to the 1st Pcars this 2nd iteration disregarding AI is a big improvement in the physics tyres ffb department which i'm very glad to see so well done SMS for that :)

nhitrac
30-09-2017, 12:48
How are you guys not beating the AI?

By the first corner I've already passed atleast 10 without fail everytime as they all crash, everytime. lol

davidt33
30-09-2017, 13:05
This isn't live on console yet at least not on PS4 mine still on V1.03 eager to try that update to see if AI is bit more consistent had similar issues to everyone else in this thread, wouldn't be too bad if could change the AI difficulty settings in the options while in a session like you can with most other options but is what it is for now.

True. Apparently the report was wrong. That latest patch 1.1.3 became available for Xbox and PC users but not for PS4 console yet. I was so happy when I saw the patch release announcement included PS4 console but alas not available yet for us which is a bummer. Hoping by some miracle when I fire up my console this morning I'll see it available or at least very soon and keeping fingers crossed when it does it addresses some of the issues I've been having including in-game "Edit Tune" settings sticking as opposed to now not sticking and hard to configure.

nO_d3N1AL
30-09-2017, 14:18
Well that's why there's 120-point scale. I find the difficulty varies greatly based on weather, track and cars. I try to play on 50-60 with 36% aggression and it's fun for me. I want to be at least on the podium every race, but in Ginetta Juniors it's very easy but with faster cars it's much harder. Thankfully difficulty can be adjusted on a per-race basis.

Plato99
30-09-2017, 14:52
Ginetta G55 GT4 mixed car race at Classic Spa. All AI cars are about 20moh quicker in a straight line. Makes it impossible / pointless. That's with AI set at 55%. Any lower than that and they drive like clowns.

steve30x
30-09-2017, 15:07
It seems they have upped the AI difficulty a lot with the update because its extremely hard to beat them even with the ai set to 30

Mad Al
30-09-2017, 16:30
Ginetta G55 GT4 mixed car race at Classic Spa. All AI cars are about 20moh quicker in a straight line. Makes it impossible / pointless. That's with AI set at 55%. Any lower than that and they drive like clowns.

The Ginetta is relatively slow in a straight line, makes it all up in the corners.. Classic Spa is all about top speed...


It seems they have upped the AI difficulty a lot with the update because its extremely hard to beat them even with the ai set to 30

Specific car/track combo in mind ?

Tooma
01-10-2017, 00:57
Interesting. I am amazed you found the Ginetta Jr a "breeze" as I find it very unstable unless I slow down a lot more than the AI for the corners. I find the old Escort RS Racer is a doddle around Knockhill compared to the Ginetta., lol. You would think it would be the other way around. Thanks for your info.

Tooma
01-10-2017, 01:04
My team mate is the biggest aggressor in Career Mode with the Ginetta Jrs - he has knocked me off track several times. I saved some, but time is lost. Bandit!

I really wish PC2 would include the Legends. Anyone else fancy running them?

johnnyone
01-10-2017, 18:50
I just hope they really tune the AI in,To make a good Sim Great !