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Martin03
26-09-2017, 01:38
Hi, first off I have to say weather looks great in this game and while the track is wet I really like it. It feels great to drive and like how sometimes have to change your racing line to avoid the puddles etc. But one thing I still miss in this game, and that is when it goes from wet to dry the entire track is drying up att the sametime. So you never get a dry race line, and the most interesting part often in changing conditions, when track is still damp but the race line is dry so some gamble for slicks while some stay on inters/wet. So is this something that could be possible to add in future update?

Also a differant quastion, if you start a quick race with light rain conditions do the puddles build up while racing then? Or do they stay the same size, like there max size in light rain conditions and only increase if you add 2 weather slots from light rain to storm?

cornishbrooksy
26-09-2017, 01:40
Im not sure about all conditions but ive certainly experienced a dry line appearing after rain.

Screenshot here that i took yesterday:

240570

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 01:42
Actually it does... We have partial weather.
Try longer circuits and go from Rain to light rain to overcast.... You'll see (like in La Sarthe for example) portions of the circuit that you can barely drive while on other areas you might be able to pick up a dry line and be flat out.

We've tested this lot's of times! I did too and it works. The only thing to have in mind is that in a 5 lap race you might not see a lot of difference. Same if you accelerate the times of weather so track can be dry in a lap or two.

We did a (I think it was) 2 hour race at Le Mans, and boy that was hard to navigate around. We did 24hs Night/day cycle with rain during half of it and the dry time was about 10/15 laps... IIRC It was scary on Indianapolis I remember. :)

cornishbrooksy
26-09-2017, 01:44
Also a differant quastion, if you start a quick race with light rain conditions do the puddles build up while racing then? Or do they stay the same size, like there max size in light rain conditions and only increase if you add 2 weather slots from light rain to storm?

With this section, the way i understand LT3.0 to work is that water will keep building up, but obviously at a slower rate to heavy rain/stormy conditions. However as drainage of the track is also modelled, if the track is draining at the same rate the rain is falling, then also the size of the puddles will stall.

Martin03
26-09-2017, 01:45
Hmm, ok I should maybe try some longer races then. I have pretty much just tested with short races so maybe then weather accelrate so much that dont get this drying line. So I was really dissepointed over that after videos like this pre-release
https://youtu.be/zJA4ZZokxWg?t=51

So, I'll try again with longer races tomorrow then. So thanks for fast answers, so time for a quick sleep before a new day off testing :P

cornishbrooksy
26-09-2017, 01:47
Hmm, ok I should maybe try some longer races then. I have pretty much just tested with short races so maybe then weather accelrate so much that dont get this drying line. So I was really dissepointed over that after videos like this pre-release
https://youtu.be/zJA4ZZokxWg?t=51

So, I'll try again with longer races tomorrow then. So thanks for fast answers, so time for a quick sleep before a new day off testing :P

BTW that screenshot was taken during the Lambo career series, with the race set to minimum length (5 mins i think) on Nurburgring GP, so yes the dry line can also appear on shorter races too.

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 01:48
Hmm, ok I should maybe try some longer races then. I have pretty much just tested with short races so maybe then weather accelrate so much that dont get this drying line. So I was really dissepointed over that after videos like this pre-release
https://youtu.be/zJA4ZZokxWg?t=51

So, I'll try again with longer races tomorrow then. So thanks for fast answers, so time for a quick sleep before a new day off testing :P

Start with RAIN and 2nd weather slot use Overcast. Set a 15 laps race in LeMans La Sarthe, with many cars and use time 2x to start with... you should see something nice there. But remember that the amount of cars in track is crucial to build the dry line... No cars, no water being 'moved' to the side

Martin03
26-09-2017, 01:49
Start with RAIN and 2nd weather slot use Overcast. Set a 15 laps race in LeMans La Sarthe, with many cars and use time 2x to start with... you should see something nice there. But remember that the amount of cars in track is crucial to build the dry line... No cars, no water being 'moved' to the side

Ok, im gonna try now. I mean... who needs sleep anyway right?...

riverreveal
26-09-2017, 01:51
Does the weather effect the whole track at the same time and rate? Or can sometimes the weather hit one section more than another?

cornishbrooksy
26-09-2017, 01:52
Does the weather effect the whole track at the same time and rate? Or can sometimes the weather hit one section more than another?

Numerous times i've come across a track which has been soaking on one half of the track and near dry on another section. Cant remember what series it was now, but encountered it at Brands Hatch.

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 01:53
Does the weather effect the whole track at the same time and rate? Or can sometimes the weather hit one section more than another?


Local to a certain area... like IRL. But on a small track you might not notice. Livetrack 3.0 is pretty amazing stuff.

Martin03
26-09-2017, 02:42
Ok did a 30minute race att Red Bull Ring with 30 GT3 cars, and first off I have to say that GT3 AI in rain att that track is way to slow...

But anyway, to the point, there was clearly a drying line and track was drying up in a really nice way. Sector 2 who was the most wet during the race was drying up slower then the rest off the track while the puddles was still there while we drove on slicks. So great job SMS! But, I still think it was drying arround the drying line pretty fast too, but that might be because off time x2 settings?

I didn't take the best pictures, but it went from this
https://i.imgur.com/o73QIvn.jpg

To this
https://i.imgur.com/kYPehPE.jpg

Again not the best pictures and racing line was not that clear but that might be graphic settings? But anyway, really good job with live track 3.0 SMS!

resmania
26-09-2017, 02:50
Dry lines and rubber lines are definitely there, but visual is either very subtile or kicks in too late.
As most of the public lobbies run short race, itd br impossible to see those effects.

surtic86
26-09-2017, 05:08
Yes SMS did a really good Job on this... had already some really cool Races from Dry to Wet and back to Dry. It is a really cool feeling when you try to stay longer out with your Sliks or Wet Tyres and your Friends catching up.

Thanks for this feature!

comieodor
26-09-2017, 06:27
A few of us did a 7 laps of Le Mans race on release day starting in rain going to dry with accelerated weather; unfortunately over a long track with only 7 of us there wasn't much of a drying line to see - but we did gradually displace the puddles. On the second to last lap you could still see the area of tarmac on the outside of Tetre Rouge was almost flooded whilst most of the Mulsane had dried...

Until you got to the final Mulsane corner heading out to the Indianapolis straight where there was still a mountain of standing water and all hell broke loose if (like I had) you elected to go back onto slicks ��

fbetes
09-11-2017, 10:40
Is there drying line on console version?

I haven't seen yet in first person and in any video

honespc
09-11-2017, 11:08
Actually it does... We have partial weather. Localized weather.

ECAR_Tracks
09-11-2017, 11:56
It would be great to see a rain chance percentage for each weather slot. And more slots.

Thus, it would be a surprise whether it was rain or not at different parts of race.

The dice option is useless since can deliver snow in Laguna Seca, which is plain stupid.

John Hargreaves
09-11-2017, 12:05
I think the drying line is a little bit elusive, you have to get the conditions just right to see it, and on shorter races with time acceleration, it might only be there for half a lap or so. I think for my taste maybe the graphical representation is a little bit too subtle; I even see a clear drying line on my drive to work, it's very common and very easy to see when it happens. In a motor race it's even more clear in real life.

Cholton82
09-11-2017, 12:43
I agree the drying line could be a bit more noticeable , it would be better if the difference between the racing line and the other wet parts of it had more of a difference which would make passing off the dry line trickier .

Mahjik
09-11-2017, 12:59
Is there drying line on console version?

I haven't seen yet in first person and in any video

Yes, however it's not as visible on all tracks. The main track that it's very visible on is Brands Hatch due to the dark track textures. SMS will be making some adjustments in this space so it should improve on others but some tracks due to their texture color may still not be as visible as others.

Also, you need to set the right conditions. If the time is accelerated too fast, then it will only appear briefly. The best way I've found to test it with the lowest amount of time is a 30 minute race, using two weather slots (Rain -> Light Cloud) and using "Sync to Race" for the weather acceleration. This basically provides 15 minutes or rain and then 15 minutes of no rain.

Gav88888
09-11-2017, 14:01
Cool as I have wondered this myself, I recall seeing a video on youtube testing this months ago and it was a proper dry line where the cars go and wet either side, which is what I want to see, but after trying I haven't been able to replicate it and just assumed the XB1 can't do it, but I will do an hour race later, wet to dry with weather sync to race so should give me a time where the dry line is starting to appear. I assume if you go from heavy rain > clear skies it will dry too quick?

As for lots of cars on track, we are talking XB1 haha, 16 is the limit...

Mahjik
09-11-2017, 14:17
244798

Here's an older screenshot I had from Brands Hatch showing it..

Gav88888
09-11-2017, 14:29
Cool, will test it now actually, I can watch an AI race whilst I work for an hour :)

Ofnir4
09-11-2017, 14:44
Tested it at Hockenheim, no time acceleration and no weather acc. after close to two hours, the only way to "see" a drying line was in the mirror by the spray the tyres kicked up offline.
At night however it easy to see, at Snetterton at least, where I tested.

@Mahjik : Sync to race works in timed sessions now or do you mean a lapped race of around 30 minutes ?

Outlier
09-11-2017, 14:55
I did a GT4 career race at Fuji in the rain last night. Practice and qualifying was in the rain and I found myself way faster than the AI by about 4 sec (probably should increase difficulty). The race started in the rain and it was a 10 or 15 min race so I went with rain tires of course. But halfway through the rain stopped and the track was drying really fast (accelerated weather timing). I was way ahead of the AI and considered pitting for slicks but the AI wasn't pitting so I stayed out and slowed my pace slightly. My tires started heating up so I started driving outside of the racing line when possible.

In some cases I could see the drying race line but in other areas of the track I couldn't. But in some areas where I couldn't, I went off the racing line and could hear the tires "splashing" through the wet track and I found this was effective to keeping the tires cool. So even if you can't easily see it, its happening. ...also as others have noted, some areas of the track dried up quicker than other areas. As my tires heated up in the dry sections, I found myself seeking out wet track in the other sections to cool my tires. ...really cool stuff!

The last lap was close as the AI all caught up forcing me to drive defensively and hold the inside line. 2nd place almost got by but I shut the door on him (or her). I had a ton of fun on this race but fI can't help but wonder. What tires did the AI drivers use that allowed them to catch up and erase my lead when the track dried out? They couldn't have been on slicks that whole time in the rain?? Or perhaps the AI is not effected by overheating rain tires when the track dries?

MaXyM
09-11-2017, 15:01
Guys, I've never saw it described, don't know where to look for.
Is shape of drying line predefined (to match best line) or is created dynamically, depending on a way cars go (like in rF2)?

Schnizz58
09-11-2017, 15:05
Guys, I've never saw it described, don't know where to look for.
Is shape of drying line predefined (to match best line) or is created dynamically, depending on a way cars go (like in rF2)?

I believe it's created dynamically. My understanding is that this is the whole point of LiveTrack.

Mahjik
09-11-2017, 15:09
Tested it at Hockenheim, no time acceleration and no weather acc. after close to two hours, the only way to "see" a drying line was in the mirror by the spray the tyres kicked up offline.
At night however it easy to see, at Snetterton at least, where I tested.

@Mahjik : Sync to race works in timed sessions now or do you mean a lapped race of around 30 minutes ?

I have been using timed sessions for my testing (as it helps me predict how much wet and dry time there will be).

MaXyM
09-11-2017, 15:09
I believe it's created dynamically. My understanding is that this is the whole point of LiveTrack.

I want to believe in that, but LiveTrack v1 and v2 are/was static shape-wise.
That's why I would like to get reliable information.

Mahjik
09-11-2017, 15:10
Guys, I've never saw it described, don't know where to look for.
Is shape of drying line predefined (to match best line) or is created dynamically, depending on a way cars go (like in rF2)?


I believe it's created dynamically. My understanding is that this is the whole point of LiveTrack.

Correct. It is dynamic as to where the cars drive (and it also take into account how much heat from the bottom of the cars as well).

MaXyM
09-11-2017, 15:12
Nice. Thanks for confirming this.

Sankyo
09-11-2017, 15:13
It's indeed determined by where the cars drive.

Sankyo
09-11-2017, 15:21
You can see it happening here if you watch closely (I think due to accelerated weather it disappears quickly again by water dispersing over the road surface, but I'm not sure):


https://youtu.be/InbwZW8z9ng?t=79

Gav88888
09-11-2017, 15:50
Ok summary of the last hour testing on XB1 :)

1hr race, Brands Hatch full circuit, GT3 cars, 29 AI drivers set at 120 AI level, 2 weather slots, Thunderstorm first followed by Overcast.

At first its heavy rain as expected, tons of spray off the tires
After 15min a damp line starts to appear, lots of standing water and puddles still
After 20min the back end of the track is starting to get some dry bits appearing but still raining
After 25min rain is less now, dry line across most parts but only a thin line with the rest of the track damp/wet
After 30min rain has stopped, AI also made pit stop, less standing water but still puddles
After 35min track is damp with a dry line and only large puddles remain
After 40min track is still damp but dry line expanding and becoming a single or double line depending on section of track, still large puddles visible
From 45min to the end of the race it remains this way, the track never full dries out as the dry line is visible until the 1hr mark.

AI laptime at the start 1:35
AI laptime at the end 1:19

I guess if you have an hour slot it might be worth trying Clear as the 2nd slot, or adding a 3rd slot with Clear to give it more time to dry out?

John Hargreaves
09-11-2017, 15:52
Lol, I thought you were supposed to be doing some work!

Good test though:yes:

Schnizz58
09-11-2017, 15:58
I have to admit I was skeptical of LiveTrack at first but it seems to be working pretty well. Remember in PC1, how the track would dry out in a lap or two? This is sooooo much better. I think hydroplaning in the puddles is still too extreme but aside from that I really like it.

Marlborofranz
09-11-2017, 16:56
Some nice findings here...

I also did some tests a month ago and time acceleration as well as weather acceleration is absolutely crucial to have realistic and noticeable dynamic build up of wetness and dry lines. So if you accelerate the weather 5 times, the track will get wet or dry up 5 times faster. Which leads to my problem: when using real time weather, each weather slot lasts around one hour. The exact time where the transition takes place, as well as how long the transition to the next weather takes, is completely random.

So if you want to have quick races of 20 minutes and want to use rain in the first 5 minutes, but a drying track in the remaining 15 minutes, you have to use 4 weather slots and sync them to race. 1 rain slot, 3 dry slots. Means that each slot takes 5 minutes and thus is accelerated 12 times. So using these settings, when it stops raining, the track dries up 12 times faster as it would be realistically be doing.

This is why I would kill to get some settings to influence slot duration (while still having a bit randomness) without speeding up live track physics. So people who want to have it dry up 12 times faster can use the old style, while others can have realistic track physics AND changing weather conditions without racing for at least over an hour...

Ofnir4
09-11-2017, 18:11
I suggested something like that in the "desirables features for coming patches" topic. To have either a pre-pression slot, that determines the state of the track when it loads or water falling/evaporating rate on a slider, as simple as "sync to weather" and "real time".

Not to compare needlessly, LT 3.0 is on par with RealRoad from RF2, maybe ahead, but time and weather compression options come with a huge immersion/realism cost that RR has not.
On the other hand I am really happy LT 3.0 doesn't offer to load track rubber state, because that is just to easy to learn braking points.

GenBrien
09-11-2017, 18:40
man.....
each time I,m loading the forum I see 3.0 and think its the patch......:( :rolleyes:

Purg
09-11-2017, 19:44
LiveTrack suffers from the majority of races being short. It accelerates time so wet weather makes the track wet really fast and also dry really fast so you don't get the opportunity to see a drying line for very long, if at all. Most will never experience LiveTrack in it's true glory.

It'd be great if you could set the initial conditions of the track. It's clear now but 5 minutes before the session, it was raining. So you're starting on a wet track in dry weather conditions. You could bump out the session longer and experience a drying track.

Gav88888
10-11-2017, 14:13
Lol, I thought you were supposed to be doing some work!

Good test though:yes:

Haha I was, just kept glancing at the stream every 5min and made a note, but this was on time progression x2, I tried it again on x5 but the track was still damp at the end of the hour. I will try again at the next one up to see if I can get it to go from heavy rain to dry inside an hour, just for personal use really as I typically do hour long races and it would be nice to mix things up a bit.

John Hargreaves
10-11-2017, 18:58
I was also peeping at the forum whilst pretending to work :o

Cote Dazur
27-11-2017, 17:40
Is LiveTrack always on or do we need to turn it on?

Schnizz58
27-11-2017, 17:42
Is LiveTrack always on or do we need to turn it on?

Pretty sure it's always "on". There's no way to turn it off afaik.

Mariangello
27-11-2017, 17:43
Is LiveTrack always on or do we need to turn it on?

I think is always on because it is main feature of PC2

diesel97
27-11-2017, 18:04
Has anybody seen it rain on one end a rack and sun on the other side(large track of course) lap after lap? I remember some of the interviews on youtube it was talking about.

If you have, what are your weather settings? LOL, you know it is real when you talk about weather setting like they are car settings.

WvAllwheelDrive
27-11-2017, 19:32
Has anybody seen it rain on one end a rack and sun on the other side(large track of course) lap after lap? I remember some of the interviews on youtube it was talking about.

If you have, what are your weather settings? LOL, you know it is real when you talk about weather setting like they are car settings.

I've gone more than an hour at Le Mans with only parts of the track wet from Indianapolis around to the Ford Chicane, and full dry from Dunlop to the Mulsanne Corner. Making Wet tires last was next to impossible, and going though the Porsche Curves in the wet on dry tires was an adventure.

Schnizz58
27-11-2017, 20:23
Has anybody seen it rain on one end a rack and sun on the other side(large track of course) lap after lap? I remember some of the interviews on youtube it was talking about.

If you have, what are your weather settings? LOL, you know it is real when you talk about weather setting like they are car settings.

Yes, I've seen that happen at a career race at Silverstone National (which is a pretty small track). The weather setting was either rain or light rain. It was raining at Luffield and Brooklands but not at the other end of the track (Maggotts).

BigDad
27-11-2017, 21:48
LiveTrack suffers from the majority of races being short. It accelerates time so wet weather makes the track wet really fast and also dry really fast so you don't get the opportunity to see a drying line for very long, if at all. Most will never experience LiveTrack in it's true glory.

It'd be great if you could set the initial conditions of the track. It's clear now but 5 minutes before the session, it was raining. So you're starting on a wet track in dry weather conditions. You could bump out the session longer and experience a drying track.

This, so much this!
A wet track with no rain!

Ofnir4
29-11-2017, 00:19
On the subject of wet to dry, I just had back-to-back occurrences of reappearing water on the track. (xbox, so pre-patch)

Both races were done using the same settings : 1h30, 10x time acc., 3 weather slot (rain, overcast and clear) synced to race, starting time 15:00, tracks used Mazda raceway and zhuhai, default date for each track.
Each time before the rain had even stopped falling the track was beginning to dry already, in mere minutes. After 30 minutes of race, the track was bone dry.
But during the second slot transition (dry-dry), water started to reappear offline in certain turns, with the tyre sound associated with it, the water evaporated again, but the tyre on water sound stayed for the rest on the races, on the racing line, offline and off the track, despite laguna seca being a scorching 55c.

The other thing I noted is that track surface off the racing line and surfaces off the track, in spite of being made of the same material (run off areas for example) have different water absorption and evaporation. Off line water can evaporate as quick as you can say "LT 3.0" but off the track, it stays wet for the whole session (1h30 in my case).