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Vette_66
26-09-2017, 02:07
experiencing relentless deleting of laps. race director will randomly come on and give a penalty for nothing and delete the lap time. Id say 95% of laps run don not get recorded. this exists in practice mode.

Aldo Zampatti
26-09-2017, 02:09
experiencing relentless deleting of laps. race director will randomly come on and give a penalty for nothing and delete the lap time. Id say 95% of laps run don not get recorded. this exists in practice mode.

Time trials/Qualifying have a more strict out of track detection.

Just stay within the white lines and you should have no issues

Vette_66
26-09-2017, 02:28
lol - i,m well aware - what im saying is - it will delete a lap / penalize going down a straight for no reason.

Morgan Henstridge
26-09-2017, 03:09
We would need to know specifically what track, corner, and game mode this is happening in to be looked at.

Chicken Patty
26-09-2017, 05:41
Something similar has happened to me. I'll be at practice or Qualifying and I'll be going down the Mulsanne straight and I'll get a warning that would say something like "slow down to avoid getting a penalty from the race director". Like why would I get a penalty? I just play with flags and penalties off for now. Also sometimes the AI driver will get really close to the pit exit lines, and the AI driver will get a penalty, seems to happen extremely often, not once a while which you could expect a mistake like that to happen. I am not sure but I think the penalty system has some bugs or it's just too strict.

Konan
26-09-2017, 05:44
lol - i,m well aware - what im saying is - it will delete a lap / penalize going down a straight for no reason.

That's probably because you cut a corner on the last part of the track...the game calculates if you gained time and if so it will delete the laptime...
An advantage won on the straight will also cause the next lap to be deleted...

drathuu
26-09-2017, 10:07
Additionally if you get a Race director apply a penalty and delete the lap.. He will then also automatically delete the next lap.. which will pop up after you commence the next lap.. This is because you may have gained an advantage to start the lap.

So cutting track could lose the current and next lap.. Ignoring the slow down message will also result in message..

2 Wheels inside the white line at all points in time.. Going outside of this will likely result in a slow down and/or lap deleted.. (Hard impacts - wall riding) will also result in the same.

Shepard2603
26-09-2017, 10:16
Additionally if you get a Race director apply a penalty and delete the lap.. He will then also automatically delete the next lap.. which will pop up after you commence the next lap.. This is because you may have gained an advantage to start the lap.


I think this only applies if you cut track in the last sector.
Regarding the Mulsanne straight it's hard to determine the "borders" as the road is very wide and one can easily ignore the white lines at the outsides because there is still tarmac. This mostly happened to me when approaching the slight right turn in for the 90° @end of Mulsanne.

m00lean
26-09-2017, 12:09
I have another example for this happening.

Hockenheim GP, the first right hand corner next to the pit exit.

You don't even have to touch the curbs to get a penalty. Strangely this did happen to me in the 911 GT3, the Ferrari GT3, but not in the M6 GT3. I reproduced this 5 times in each of these cars, because I couldn't believe it.

Siberian Tiger
26-09-2017, 12:13
Did you read the Posts above you? That's only happening if you have cuted in the last sector before S/F Straight.

PietroTedesco
26-09-2017, 12:19
We would need to know specifically what track, corner, and game mode this is happening in to be looked at.

For example, Brno faces the left curb before the first right turn

m00lean
26-09-2017, 12:42
Did you read the Posts above you? That's only happening if you have cuted in the last sector before S/F Straight.

Yes. Did you read mine? I did 5 laps in each car, not cutting any corner to reproduce this issue.

Even if I "cut" a corner while keeping 2 wheels within the white lines, I wouldn't expect any penalties.

ECT CHEF
26-09-2017, 12:58
I think the placement is hard to see if we cut the track or not. We are focusing on getting a good lap and that message blends in with a few cars. Maybe change the color of the message or placement so it will be more noticeable.

m00lean
26-09-2017, 13:05
I think the placement is hard to see if we cut the track or not. We are focusing on getting a good lap and that message blends in with a few cars. Maybe change the color of the message or placement so it will be more noticeable.

That is not the point here. But be advised that you can change the placement in the HUD editor.

Rodgerzzz
26-09-2017, 13:22
I struggled a hell of a lot with Oulton Park at first as I was so uses to running really wide onto the run offs on PC1 and then all of a sudden in PC2 laps I thought were legitimate were getting chalked off left, right and centre... really had to pull myself back from the lines I was used to.

That being said I've also noticed a couple of times where I've locked a brake and the race director message has popped up straight away. May be completely coincidental and the message is related to a previous track cut but it seems to happen all to often around different areas of Oulton for it to continue to be coincidence.

Siberian Tiger
26-09-2017, 13:39
Yes. Did you read mine? I did 5 laps in each car, not cutting any corner to reproduce this issue.

Even if I "cut" a corner while keeping 2 wheels within the white lines, I wouldn't expect any penalties.

Yes i read yours..
The Rule is not 2 Wheels inside Whiteline...
The Rule is in pCars2: Not more than 50% of the Carbody over the Whitelines (including Kurbs and Astroturf)

So perhaps you are a Little bit over the Threshold....

I raced around Nurb GP for nearly 1 Hour on Saturday, never had a deleted Lap Time.
Perhaps you are taking the NGK Chikane to tight...

m00lean
26-09-2017, 13:47
Yes i read yours..
The Rule is not 2 Wheels inside Whiteline...
The Rule is in pCars2: Not more than 50% of the Carbody over the Whitelines (including Kurbs and Astroturf)

So perhaps you are a Little bit over the Threshold....

I raced around Nurb GP for nearly 1 Hour on Saturday, never had a deleted Lap Time.
Perhaps you are taking the NGK Chikane to tight...

Again... I did 5 laps in each of the mentioned cars very carefully around the track, didnt cut any corner, and didnt take any curbs, just to be sure that there is a problem with the first right hand corner at the pit exit. If you come remotely close to it, your lap get's invalidated. That applies at least to the 911 GT3, the 488 GT3 and NOT to the M6 GT3.

Oh and I'm talking about Hockenheim GP btw, not Nürburgring. I never experienced problems at that track.

I'm done with this thread now. It's getting silly. Take it to the QA or leave it. If stuff like this doesn't get fixed, people will just disable the penalty system like in PC1.

Siberian Tiger
26-09-2017, 13:49
Oh, ok sorry i tought you wrote Nurb GP.

Will try Hockenheim GP today evening, and will report it to the Devs if i can reproduce it.

Sorry Mate...

Chin
26-09-2017, 14:20
Note that the developers made a decision to invalidate a lap if more than half of the car is outside the track limits (white line/curb). This is contrary to what most are accustomed to... If a cut is detected in the last sector, your next lap will be invalidated, as well. That message will pop up shortly after passing the start line on your next lap (so, you will actually see 2 messages). I certainly haven't tried all the tracks, but I haven't found an issue yet. It really can be difficult to tell being they chose a relatively vague reference point for detecting cuts.

Sankyo
26-09-2017, 19:40
Again... I did 5 laps in each of the mentioned cars very carefully around the track, didnt cut any corner, and didnt take any curbs, just to be sure that there is a problem with the first right hand corner at the pit exit. If you come remotely close to it, your lap get's invalidated. That applies at least to the 911 GT3, the 488 GT3 and NOT to the M6 GT3.

Oh and I'm talking about Hockenheim GP btw, not Nürburgring. I never experienced problems at that track.

I'm done with this thread now. It's getting silly. Take it to the QA or leave it. If stuff like this doesn't get fixed, people will just disable the penalty system like in PC1.
Drove about 10 laps today in the 911 GT3 R on Hockenheim GP and didn't get any Lap Invalidated no matter how I took the first corner after pit exit.

grahambo39
16-10-2017, 01:55
This happens to me constantly. Doing a community event at Autodromo on PS4. On front straight and all of a sudden it says time deleted by race director. I just started the time trial and am in a straight in the middle of the track. How can I be penalized already?

Gix916
16-10-2017, 09:36
there don't seem to be any track limits at Algarve except cutting in early at the last corner. You can extend (get your whole car over the line) on all corners.

Brno the AI cut the first corner to get ahead of you on first lap.

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 09:39
This happens to me constantly. Doing a community event at Autodromo on PS4. On front straight and all of a sudden it says time deleted by race director. I just started the time trial and am in a straight in the middle of the track. How can I be penalized already?

Most likely because you cut in the last sector before starting your flying lap.
You'll get a warning that the current and next lap will be deleted and you'll get a reminder of that while you're on your next one.

Racefancy
16-10-2017, 11:49
The issue where they give you two deleted lap warnings for the following sector is annoying but I can understand the fear that it can lead to a quicker run onto a straight which gives an unfair advantage. Still annoying!

BSDShoes
26-10-2017, 14:32
Been getting this on a lot of tracks, it's confusing and driving me nuts sometimes and no I don't cut corners. Happens 100% of the time on Imola for me, but very frequently on other tracks- I was trying to do Indycar lap times on Road Atlanta and 50% of the time it would delete lap times.

JJ Addison
02-11-2017, 20:52
Someone PLEASE KILL that race director its not bad enough it deletes the lap for nothing it deletes 2 laps %$#^@ And it will not turn off!

Konan
02-11-2017, 21:00
It only deletes the following lap when an advantage was taken in the last sector...

Danelite86
02-11-2017, 21:14
I thank it needs work just for the run off carbs some tracks you can and some you cant. like on glen and red bull ring you can run off but not the other tracks that I know of whats up with that

Schnizz58
02-11-2017, 21:51
The Rule is not 2 Wheels inside Whiteline...
Yes, this is exactly the problem.

JyriK
02-11-2017, 22:53
Note that the developers made a decision to invalidate a lap if more than half of the car is outside the track limits (white line/curb).

Why this sort of rule which is not used anywhere in the world? The strict UK rule is three tyres outside the white line, and then there will be repercussions depending on the situation. It is not much used outside UK (Spa is an exception as Brits usually run the show there) and allowing three tyres outside the line is more common.

Simulating real world rules would be nice.

Danelite86
02-11-2017, 23:00
its not consistent with all the tracks is the problem.

Schnizz58
02-11-2017, 23:04
its not consistent with all the tracks is the problem.

I think it's probably consistent, just wrong. When you're in the car, it's hard to tell if 50% of the car is over the line or not. It's pretty easy to tell if you have 2 wheels on the track.

Danelite86
03-11-2017, 02:26
I think it's probably consistent, just wrong. When you're in the car, it's hard to tell if 50% of the car is over the line or not. It's pretty easy to tell if you have 2 wheels on the track.

its not consistent with all the tracks. you can go on the curbs on some tracks but not the others with 100% of the car.

ShimonART
03-11-2017, 07:44
what's the point invalidating the next lap though? its not like i'm going to get an advantage on my 2nd flying lap.

and i have experienced this a lot as well, not cutting the track at all just driving at the middle of the road and i will get track cut penalty. (on most tracks)

Konan
03-11-2017, 07:46
Because it's an advantage created in the last sector so you're probably faster to begin the next lap than if you were not cutting...

ShimonART
03-11-2017, 09:33
Because it's an advantage created in the last sector so you're probably faster to begin the next lap than if you were not cutting...

theres your problem, your doing it by sectors.

take a look how f1 drivers crawl almost to a stop on the last corner before starting their flying lap.

wesker6664
03-11-2017, 09:57
No offence but your reply to Konan's post doesn't make any sense ? He was just telling you how the systems works and why you get the "current lap and next one will be invalidated" message from race director.

Konan
03-11-2017, 09:59
theres your problem, your doing it by sectors.

take a look how f1 drivers crawl almost to a stop on the last corner before starting their flying lap.

They do that to create distance to the driver ahead though...and depending on the track layout...

MaXyM
03-11-2017, 10:03
Considering you HAVE to stay between the lines, what is the problem? Follow rules and you will be have no opportunity to complain. If you get unstable, being not able to control your car at 100% which of course results in occasional slides beyond the lines... then slow down. The same rules are applied to every one.

In the past we developed quite precise system for rFactor1 for evaluation of advantage coming from cutting or widening but at first it still had some limits (0.5 sec sampling), and at second it was huge amount of work. What is wrong which such systems is they are 'inhuman'. IRL drivers are judged by humans, by rough guess about advantage. Automated systems reacts in binary way with lot higher precision. Measuring mistakes with millimetre precision is just exaggerated. Guarantees equal conditions to all competitors though but makes us a part of automated process. Which is wrong IMO. And costs a lot of work of devs who do their best.

On the other hand it is consequence of drivers attitude. Without drivers trying to violate written (or not) rules, there would be no need to control the limits and punish for their exceeding.
So what I suggest: find the boundaries on particular track and do EVERYTHING to stay inside. And if you fail... get the penalty. What's wrong with going for next lap? Nobody becomes a world champion in a day.

JyriK
03-11-2017, 10:07
Considering you HAVE to stay between the lines, what is the problem?

The problem is the very vague mid point of the car being the reference point, not tyres as in the real world. See my previous post.

MaximusN
03-11-2017, 10:19
The problem is the very vague mid point of the car being the reference point, not tyres as in the real world. See my previous post.
Exactly! I now very well when 2 wheels are inside the lines. I have no clue when 50% of the car is off-track. And anyway it's more strict than IRL, because 2 tyres on track is 80-90% off track depending on the car and tyre width. I'd even say it's easier to code(represent the car as 4 dots(tyres) and 2 of them have to be on the inside of the white line). And invalidating the next lap because the last sector(which can be multiple km's) was invalid adds insult to the injury. Last (2)corner(s) is fine.

MaXyM
03-11-2017, 10:20
But is that really matter?
While driving a car you don't even know where your wheels are. You really don't know if contact patch is touching a line or is 5cm off. Nobody in the real world does that this way.
Moreover, exceeding limits is consequence of decisions taken before (overriding corner entry or so).
So why do you want to measure it with such precise?
Assure you are leaving 1m margin and your problem is solved.

BTW I found, that while during practice or hotlapping, the Race Director is quite strict and consistent, in races (at least MP I have more experience with) it gives more freedom. Excepting situation of unfair overtaking. It's the approach I really appreciate.

JyriK
03-11-2017, 10:22
But is that really matter?
While driving a car you don't even know where your wheels are. You really don't know if contact patch is touching a line or is 5cm off. Nobody in the real world does that this way.
So why do you want to measure it with such precise?
Assure you are leaving 1m margin and your problem is solved.

BTW I found, that while during practice or hotlapping, the Race Director is quite strict, in races (at least MP I have more experience with) it gives more freedom. Excepting situation of unfair overtaking. It's the approach I really appreciate.

Yes you do, unless you are a total noob.

MaximusN
03-11-2017, 10:22
Assure you are leaving 1m margin and your problem is solved.

Ah, common, if that's what racing was about I would have never started watching it.

MaXyM
03-11-2017, 10:28
Yes you do, unless you are a total noob.

No.. Not with 1cm precision. You cannot even see contact patch between tire and a line. You can do rough approximation. But it gives you a clue, not measurement. In other words you drive by intuition while requiring measurement with precision you cannot provide while driving. And please don't say you can control the car with millimetres precision. Even IRL it's not possible.


Ah, common, if that's what racing was about I would have never started watching it.

At first racing is sport which is directly connected with rules you sportsman have to follow.

Sankyo
03-11-2017, 10:31
No.. if you are not. Not with 1cm precision. You cannot even see contact patch between tire and a line. You can do rough approximation. But it gives you a clue, not measurement. In other words you drive by intuition but requires to measure it with precision you cannot control by while driving. And please don't say you can control the car with millimetres precision. Even IRL it's not possible.
You can judge much better where your tyres are compared to where the center of you car is. It doesn't need cm precision to allow more confidence in placing your car within the track's limits.

JyriK
03-11-2017, 10:34
You can judge much better where your tyres are compared to where the center of you car is. It doesn't need cm precision to allow more confidence in placing your car within the track's limits.

Exactly.

MaximusN
03-11-2017, 10:45
You can judge much better where your tyres are compared to where the center of you car is. It doesn't need cm precision to allow more confidence in placing your car within the track's limits.

Indeed!

MaXyM
03-11-2017, 10:53
You can judge much better where your tyres are compared to where the center of you car is. It doesn't need cm precision to allow more confidence in placing your car within the track's limits.

Yes it's true but it's not my point.
Main point is that your (our) ability of positioning the car is completely off comparing to measurement some wants to be applied. If you are not precise enough to fit 16 meters boundary (track width), what's the reason to measure it with precision higher than half a meter?

Also please consider, car can slide, car can rotate while sliding. Controlling position of wheels would require to evaluate such situations. Measurement of center of a car is imo good enough from both: development and racing point of view. Remember: the goal is: stay on track. it is not: find track boundaries.

I'm not going to force your opinion. Just giving you my one. As mentioned, I (we) spent more than year developing and tuning out-of-track-boundary measurement system and it was working in our leagues for 5 years or so. This is why I'm really confident to say it's just enough to be working very well. Something which might seem to be not precise, or measured in wrong way, in real life is really feasible to do its job. It's sufficiently close to what we need to achieve.

BTW: it reminds me discussion years ago on our portal about (automated) measurement of exceeding track boundaries. Yes, there were drivers which didn't agree with such approach, because it kills heart of racing.

MaximusN
03-11-2017, 11:46
Yes it's true but it's not my point.
Main point is that your (our) ability of positioning the car is completely off comparing to measurement some wants to be applied. If you are not precise enough to fit 16 meters boundary (track width), what's the reason to measure it with precision higher than half a meter?

???? So you say it's okay to say a tennis ball is out while 10 cm within bounds just because it's hard to hit it near the line anyway? Or to give someone a speed ticket because doing 59,9mph is so close to 60mph that you were mentally almost speeding anyway?

If you can't judge if 2 tyres are within the lines that's fine with me, but don't insult others.

MaXyM
03-11-2017, 11:56
indsult? lol
Consider not using words a meaning you are not familiar with.

GTsimms
03-11-2017, 12:36
Or to give someone a speed ticket

I do that often enough! Which most of the time, I have to exceed well past 100+ mph to catch up and issue it!

MaximusN
03-11-2017, 12:40
indsult? lol
Consider not using words a meaning you are not familiar with.
Might have overreacted a little ;) , but why are you okay with a referee that calls out when you're only near the edge and not over? I just can't wrap my head around that. Do you want to punish cheaters so badly?

I'm not really an AC fan(the modding is what pulls me in), but what I do like about it's MP setup is that you can choose none/2/3/4 wheels within the line. That way you can decide how strict you want your game(I choose 2).

GTsimms
03-11-2017, 12:45
I don't agree with the track limits myself. But, that is the new rules of racing.

JyriK
03-11-2017, 12:47
Is "two tyres inside the line" -rule somehow more difficult to implement than the mid car reference point? I don't care if the car slides and whatnot causing invalid laps and penalties, at least it would be more close to real world rules (albeit in its strictest form).

Schnizz58
03-11-2017, 13:16
Considering you HAVE to stay between the lines, what is the problem? Follow rules and you will be have no opportunity to complain.
That *is* the problem. We're following the rules but the game isn't.

Sankyo
03-11-2017, 13:19
Yes it's true but it's not my point.
Main point is that your (our) ability of positioning the car is completely off comparing to measurement some wants to be applied. If you are not precise enough to fit 16 meters boundary (track width), what's the reason to measure it with precision higher than half a meter?
...
Because racing on the edge does not take place over the full 16 m track width, but only in that last 0.5 m :)

I think the problem is that wheels are visible and tangible entities of a car, while its geometric center isn't. So when going over the limit, even when showing a picture of the car's center going over it you still cannot relate it to what to improve in your driving and placing the car on the track.

IMO when taking the car's center as a reference, you still need to find a physical part of the car to take as your own reference, for example translate it to the outer tyres not going over the track boundary. Hence, IMO when you know the center of the car is what counts, you'll still have to make your tyres your reference to be able to adhere to the track limits.

Schnizz58
03-11-2017, 13:23
But is that really matter?
While driving a car you don't even know where your wheels are. You really don't know if contact patch is touching a line or is 5cm off. Nobody in the real world does that this way.
I know where my wheels are with a lot more accuracy than where the middle of the car is.


Assure you are leaving 1m margin and your problem is solved.
A meter?! I guess if we all drove around at 50 mph our problem is solved that way too.


BTW I found, that while during practice or hotlapping, the Race Director is quite strict and consistent, in races (at least MP I have more experience with) it gives more freedom.
Well that's a whole different problem related to the consistency issue Danelite86 raised earlier. I think it should be consistent between practice and racing. That way, when you're practicing you know where the limits will be in the race. However, I could see an argument that there should be no track limits in practice. [Why would there be a race director there invalidating laps in a private practice session?]

NaRP
03-11-2017, 14:36
for me,
Race Director Deleting Laps when i brake Hard. Why?
i must setting brake ratio to improve braking. After,no deleting. Before, still deleting. Strange!

info : i don't test again until patch v2.

Siberian Tiger
03-11-2017, 15:04
for me,
Race Director Deleting Laps when i brake Hard. Why?
i must setting brake ratio to improve braking. After,no deleting. Before, still deleting. Strange!

info : i don't test again until patch v2.

No, it has nothing to do with braking (Not directly)
But it calculates in the Braking Zones. (After the Cut it Needs time to Investigate IF you have gained Time), and mostly that will be calculated from Corner to Corner... Ergo, in the Brakingzone you will receive the Penalty IF you gained or don't receive it you didn't....

Schnizz58
03-11-2017, 15:05
No, it has nothing to do with braking (Not directly)
But it calculates in the Braking Zones. (After the Cut it Needs time to Investigate IF you have gained Time), and mostly that will be calculated from Corner to Corner... Ergo, in the Brakingzone you will receive the Penalty IF you gained or don't receive it you didn't....

Gained relative to what?

Siberian Tiger
03-11-2017, 15:06
Don't know the exact terms but afaik it's a mixture of AI Line / Your Times and probably more... Extremely complex stuff :p

Schnizz58
03-11-2017, 15:11
Don't know the exact terms but afaik it's a mixture of AI Line / Your Times and probably more... Extremely complex stuff :p

Please forgive me if I'm skeptical.

NaRP
03-11-2017, 16:06
No, it has nothing to do with braking (Not directly)
But it calculates in the Braking Zones. (After the Cut it Needs time to Investigate IF you have gained Time), and mostly that will be calculated from Corner to Corner... Ergo, in the Brakingzone you will receive the Penalty IF you gained or don't receive it you didn't....

I am in a broad straight line, as in a starting line, when i brake.

Danelite86
03-11-2017, 20:05
well over all it needs to be looked at. or fix it at red bull ring tracks

MJP
03-11-2017, 20:38
I am in a broad straight line, as in a starting line, when i brake.

That's just coincidence it pops up when you're braking, RedBull Ring and Watkins are a couple of tracks that spring to mind when this usually happens going into T1. The onscreen message even tells you the lap's invalid due to going offtrack in previous sector!

Dfcsons
27-11-2017, 22:58
Just been practising on Algarve and it seems that if I touch a kerb I get an invalid lap. There is no way 50% of the car was over the white line so maybe a bug. I'm running the game on ps4. It is frustrating to say the least.