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View Full Version : VR|Suggestion: Aliasing: TAA & Lumasharpen



Ginger McAle
26-09-2017, 16:54
Hi guys,

long time member here. First of all congratulations for deploying PCARS2! You did it again, hope you will survive the first weeks after launch well and profit good from the hard work done over the last years. I for myself can say iam amazed by the game! Thank you!

My ongoing issue with VR in PCARS (1) and PCARS 2 is the aliasing and blurriness in VR. To counter that we usually enable MSAA and crank up the supersampling, but that does come with an high performance cost so we have to use low graphical fidelity settings.


My first suggestion and request is to add an simple sharpen shader (quick & dirty, configurable via the config xml files or some startup parameter). We could stay then at resolution scale 1.0, use post processing anti-aliasing (fxaa or smaa), change some graphical options to higher settings but still get an sharp image:
Sharpen Example (https://sfx.thelazy.net/games/screenshot/48927/full/)
.
.

The second suggestion and request, but it does require more work, is to implement some post processing temporal anti-aliasing (TAA) and to combine it with a little sharpening to counter the slight bluriness which is caused by post AA shaders.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWRfLhOY2AA

It does cost considerably less than supersampling or MSAA and creates a very smooth scene.


With this system i cant get high visual fidelity, an smooth scene and an sharp image; which leaves me with one happy and one sad eye :o:
7700k
GTX 1080 ti
Oculus Rift

Ive been looking if its possible to inject/hook post processing into the rendering pipeline, but without success and my windows programming skills are not existent. You are my last hope, slightly mad kenobi.

Greetings
Mariusz

Ginger McAle
27-09-2017, 16:56
Ian, ive just seen you have written yesterday about aliasing.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread-coming-september-22nd-2017.342814/page-268#post-11957773

Is temporal anti aliasing on your radar or is it out of the question because of some implementation / rendering details?

CoolSpy
27-09-2017, 17:07
I vote for SHARPEN !!! This sim is so blurry compared to iRacing or Assetto or even Raceroom !!

pyide_maybe
27-09-2017, 17:55
I'd love PCARS2 to get some TAA and a post-sharpening slider. But I'd settle for just the TAA if I had to.

It does the absolute best job of eliminating edge shimmering in motion.
I posted this old example in a previous Anti-aliasing thread: https://gfycat.com/DetailedSoftEelelephant (switch to HD)

That's TXAA, the nvidia specific method that AC4 & GTAV uses, but games like Fallout 4, BF1, and Doom 2016 have their own TAA methods that work just as well on all AMD & Nvidia.
Doom's 8xTSSAA is probably the best I've seen, minimal framerate hit (https://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/7/7/7757_3_doom-graphics-performance-tweak-guide.png), plus that game has a sharpening slider built in to counter the blur it adds and bring fine details back.

And while on the topic of graphical effects, still desperately in need of a way to disable the forced Ambient Occlusion / SSAO. It's ridiculous that there's no option for it!

keem85
28-09-2017, 10:34
Sharpen yes. I made a post about it too :) It's a really easy implement looking at the github for lumasharpen on how it works :)

CoolSpy
28-09-2017, 13:15
As of now, the VR mode in PC2 is looking so bad that I am not playing it anymore... I hope we see sharpening added soon because right now, VR is just a blurry mess, and even worse you can't get 90fps on a 1080ti with such an aweful image quality! What's is wrong with you devs?!! Is VR such a secondary feature you did not optimize or work on it ?! I had PC1 and it was not much worse, still feel cheated by the "new awesome VR mode" you were supposed to bring with PC2 :(

Brado23
28-09-2017, 13:45
I'm only on a 980 and that is fine with 1.3 supersampling. Not sure why you are having issues with a 1080Ti

CoolSpy
28-09-2017, 14:43
1.3 supersampling is a joke in PC2! 30m ahead of the car everything is blurry compared to iRacing, Assetto, Raceroom etc..

Boskapongen
28-09-2017, 14:49
I vote for SHARPEN !!! This sim is so blurry compared to iRacing or Assetto or even Raceroom !!

+1 .

pyide_maybe
28-09-2017, 14:57
If you guys are hurting for some sharpening, you can force it on with Reshade, it has lumasharp and it is adjustable. I tried it back when testing reshade's FXAA and SMAA because the game settings seem to do nothing. Lumasharp worked well, FXAA seemed broken, and SMAA did a better job than the game.

There's no way to add TAA externally tho, SMS has to do that themselves. Same with adding an option to disable AO.

CoolSpy
28-09-2017, 15:12
But how do you manage to use RESHADE with VR man ??!! This is not possible, I guess you don't own a VIVE or Rift. You can't apply post processing with external programs or DLLs like reshade or sweetfx in VR for now... it only works on traditional monitors

pyide_maybe
28-09-2017, 15:45
Nope, no VR. Sorry! I had no idea it doesn't work with HMDs, that stinks. I wrongly assumed since it's injected into the game itself, it wouldn't matter what the output was. Those without VR in need of lumasharpening can still check it out.

Well then, they should definitely implement a post process sharpening effect w/ adjustable slider themselves! Along with TAA :D

finagle69
28-09-2017, 16:42
I would definitely like to see SHARPEN for VR. iRacing looks excellent with it.

Haiden
28-09-2017, 17:07
As of now, the VR mode in PC2 is looking so bad that I am not playing it anymore... I hope we see sharpening added soon because right now, VR is just a blurry mess, and even worse you can't get 90fps on a 1080ti with such an aweful image quality! What's is wrong with you devs?!! Is VR such a secondary feature you did not optimize or work on it ?! I had PC1 and it was not much worse, still feel cheated by the "new awesome VR mode" you were supposed to bring with PC2 :(

I get 90 fps in all weather conditions with a GTX 1080. That's with medium settings and 1.0 density. Doesn't look that bad to me. Not much different than AC.


I'm only on a 980 and that is fine with 1.3 supersampling. Not sure why you are having issues with a 1080Ti

You're getting 90 fps on a 980 with 1.3 supersampling? Sure you're not running at 45 fps with ASW?

MichelF
01-10-2017, 13:49
Is there good adjustments or additional tools to reduce or remove the blurriness at medium range waiting this sharpening tool. I tried a bunch of adjustment without clear difference. Thanks in advance

whip
01-10-2017, 13:58
+1.

demaarten
16-10-2017, 18:45
All the posts about not working AA and blurry vision in VR and shimmering... I too having serious problems with VR in this game. This could well be the sim racer to end all sim racers. The progress made in FFB and tyre model and so on makes this a much better game then PC1 (that I have, but never really played, because AC was so much better)
I like driving it now, just as nice as AC for me, and the sound makes it better, but the VR experience is just way better in AC. Is it so hard to make a sharper and shimmerless image??. Ginger MCcale just gave you devs 2 perfect options. This would make the VR experience fantastic...

I can not wait another 2 years for PC3 to be released and have better AA and better image quality in VR...

Boskapongen
16-10-2017, 20:36
Iracing added sharpening efterwards so it should be fairly easy to add here aswell. First people use a 3rd party tool/app i cant remember the name of ATM that added sharpening to the game.

EDIT: App was called Sweet FX

See how it improved image here. :encouragement:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2EYtwF_hO4

Ginger McAle
16-10-2017, 20:53
Found two open source TAA implementations, i know, different engine (unity) but maybe of help, the shader code is in there:
https://github.com/playdeadgames/temporal
https://github.com/gokselgoktas/temporal-anti-aliasing

This demonstrations of TAA in action are also nice here:
https://blog.sketchfab.com/introducing-temporal-anti-aliasing/