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View Full Version : F rank the new U rank. to easy to rank up



takaii
26-09-2017, 21:16
Drivers in F rank class was ok at first but now it feels like U class.
Myself is c rank driver now but man its to easy to rank up in safety rank

MortICi
26-09-2017, 21:18
That is just your safety rating, that can jump up and down quickly. The points is slow to climb. You get -50 for retiring or quitting a race, and like 8 for finishing first... Do the math on how easy it is to rank up.

The letter means nothing besides on how clean you drive.

takaii
26-09-2017, 21:20
That is just your safety rating, that can jump up and down quickly. The points is slow to climb. You get -50 for retiring or quitting a race, and like 8 for finishing first... Do the math on how easy it is to rank up.

The letter means nothing besides on how clean you drive.

Yes i know thats what i meant, to easy to rank up safety rank. I was just in a F-ranked match mostly F and e drivers and there where 5 car times crash incidents in that race. (Not me involved) but it makes me question it being to easy to rank up.
Myself got F rank first race. Should be more off a challange. People should deserve to climb up in safety rank to prove themselve safe in races. But its probably because e and f is not that high

Brado23
26-09-2017, 21:28
U is Unclassified so people shouldn't stay on that for too long. I think I did 3 clean races before going to F (actually one of those may have been on an unranked server). As F is the first classified rating, I see it as the lowest rating anyway which is fine once people have been playing for a while. I've been on E now for 5 clean races and haven't gone to D which I think is fine too. It should take longer to progress through each level. Hopefully that is how they have done it. I don't want to see a million people on S after a while as hopefully only the immaculate drivers get to that.

Charger
26-09-2017, 21:30
I can tell you once you get to C it is not easy to get to B unless you are super clean and avoid incidents, U to F as said is easy.

ATSS
27-09-2017, 13:00
Getting C was easy but B looks far away, after 6 clean races im still C.

martymoose
27-09-2017, 14:54
Ideally in the end you will be wanting to be A or B and stick to servers with A or B to get the best racing or maybe C limit could be ok too. To me safety rating is much more important then individuals speed, being in a server with someone a bit off pace is better then being in with those that you cant drive within 10m of as you nor they have any idea what they will do next lol.

Starting off in U was pretty brutal and honestly I nearly gave up on PC2 entirely at that level as its much worse then the AI and thats hard to manage for anyone to be that much worse then the AI here. I think there is some hope in this rating system and it should over time provide possibility to jump in for casual pick up server racing without having to expect some muppet to have no idea how to avoid rear ending you from 20m back into a corner. A good clean racer you can run side by side most corners but the majority of people in all sims and driving games sadly are incapable of sharing a track with others let alone racing them closely.

bmanic
27-09-2017, 14:58
The difficulty in ranking up the safety is in avoiding all the chaos! I find it extremely difficult to rank up from F... I'm currently back to U. I guess I have to drive with a different mentality and just "rank up safety first" instead of setting pole position qualification times. Qualifying first or 2nd pretty much guarantees you get hit by somebody.

Minolin
27-09-2017, 15:10
I find it extremely difficult to rank up from F... I'm currently back to U

Did you drive on F-servers when you could?

ATSS
27-09-2017, 20:17
Finally 'B'. 2 more races needed.

ThatJordGuy
28-09-2017, 04:36
If you are involved in crashes (e.g. first corner crash) however is caused by someone else rear-ending you for example, does that affect your safety rating? Does 'clean racing' mean for just you or everyone in the race?
I read that if every driver has a clean race it boosts your safety rating, does it work the other way if other drivers have an unclean race?

Cats
28-09-2017, 06:02
Why does my rating go down when someone just comes plowing over me into turn 1?

honespc
28-09-2017, 06:21
Why does my rating go down when someone just comes plowing over me into turn 1?In their infinite wisdom, devs came to the conclusion that the car getting rammed from the back is also responsible for a wreck, or a minor incident.

The racing spirit in pc2 online demands you to race like a grandpa and be scared at every single corner taking, and even on straight line. Don't fight hand to hand for victory against in every corner swapping paint with who might first look like a good fair-skilled driver, because if he decides at any moment to take you out, then you will be taken out and then penalized for that. They call that fairness, I think it was.

Avoid competitive racing. Try to finish races in the latest positions. If you finish the last, the better according to pc2 online rating philosophy. Be slow, safe and scared of everybody. Enjoy that.

cpcdem
28-09-2017, 06:22
If you are involved in crashes (e.g. first corner crash) however is caused by someone else rear-ending you for example, does that affect your safety rating? Does 'clean racing' mean for just you or everyone in the race?
I read that if every driver has a clean race it boosts your safety rating, does it work the other way if other drivers have an unclean race?

It only depends on what happens to your car. And yes, if someone rams you, that affects also your safety rating, but just a tiny bit, only one crash is unimportant for you on that matter, at least while you haven't ranked up your safety ranking. For the crasher it is very important though, because he will accumulate "negative safety points" (my term :)) as he crashes more people than you, so his safety ranking will collapse. Personally I advanced to C ranking while being bumped at least once or twice probably in every single race I did till then, so I wouldn't worry too much for the occasional rams if I were you. Later, I could join highly ranked servers (from the safety point of view) and my races have been exceptionally clean since then, most of them do not even include a single contact with other drivers. And that made it easy to advance my safety ranking even higher.

Charger
28-09-2017, 10:27
In their infinite wisdom, devs came to the conclusion that the car getting rammed from the back is also responsible for a wreck, or a minor incident.

The racing spirit in pc2 online demands you to race like a grandpa and be scared at every single corner taking, and even on straight line. Don't fight hand to hand for victory against in every corner swapping paint with who might first look like a good fair-skilled driver, because if he decides at any moment to take you out, then you will be taken out and then penalized for that. They call that fairness, I think it was.

Avoid competitive racing. Try to finish races in the latest positions. If you finish the last, the better according to pc2 online rating philosophy. Be slow, safe and scared of everybody. Enjoy that.

Are you still going on about this? Do you make mistakes yourself? Do you think the person you made a mistake with thinks you rammed them? Mistakes happen get over it.

The system is fine for safe racers and if it doesn't work for you then I am sorry but you are not safe and are taking too many risks, I can fight for a podium and still be safe, it doesn't mean you have to back off just to stay safe.

You are obviously joining rooms where the host does not care what happens to other players unless it involves the host, find a room with people that will call out rammers and the host deals with them, we have a few racers that will set a qualy lap and sit in the pits and call out bad drivers so by the time the race starts it's pretty clean.

You can't say jump into a lobby with 20 players and expect all of them to pander to your wishes, you have to be proactive not reactive.

We don't kick racers for incidents we kick people that purposely come in to ram others, it is quite easy to determine which flavour they are.

could_do_better
28-09-2017, 10:36
Not had too much trouble getting to D from only 7-8 races. Just hung back and waited for others to make mistakes. Yes I possibly lost some ranking points when I should have finished higher but I want the safety rating before getting more serious.

I think there is a general misconception about the safety rating, people gravitate to the ranking score and the safety letter gets overlooked. We need to promote understanding of the difference between safety rating and ranking score as too many servers seem to be U or F but with 1500 ranking required. I will personally start servers with C/D but 100 ranking as clean is more important than speed when you've invested 1-2 hours of valuable time in a qualifying/race.

ErockR32
28-09-2017, 11:27
Are you still going on about this? Do you make mistakes yourself? Do you think the person you made a mistake with thinks you rammed them? Mistakes happen get over it.

The system is fine for safe racers and if it doesn't work for you then I am sorry but you are not safe and are taking too many risks, I can fight for a podium and still be safe, it doesn't mean you have to back off just to stay safe.

You are obviously joining rooms where the host does not care what happens to other players unless it involves the host, find a room with people that will call out rammers and the host deals with them, we have a few racers that will set a qualy lap and sit in the pits and call out bad drivers so by the time the race starts it's pretty clean.

You can't say jump into a lobby with 20 players and expect all of them to pander to your wishes, you have to be proactive not reactive.

We don't kick racers for incidents we kick people that purposely come in to ram others, it is quite easy to determine which flavour they are.


I was going to say something like this to him. Seems like he is just looking to blame others when it takes 2 to tango.

It is very easy to get safety up. Performance rating is another thing which is going to be a bit tougher but if you are good in the next month or so things will be fine. It took me a long time to get around 2700 iRating ( not as much to get A 4.75-4.99 )

I took the approach to work on myself and my race craft and after this worked on getting faster. Seems to have paid off.

Minolin
28-09-2017, 11:43
I can only repeat my advice to ignore the performance rating until you can race in highly restrictive (safety-rating wise) servers. And you should use them ofc., there's no point in having a D grade, joining U-servers and come to the forums to complain about the bad system.

takaii
28-09-2017, 12:21
I can tell you once you get to C it is not easy to get to B unless you are super clean and avoid incidents, U to F as said is easy.

Its easy to get to B i almost make 1-2 misstakes each race. I did like 6 races with each a misstake or 2. Safety rank system is way to kind

takaii
28-09-2017, 12:32
The difficulty in ranking up the safety is in avoiding all the chaos! I find it extremely difficult to rank up from F... I'm currently back to U. I guess I have to drive with a different mentality and just "rank up safety first" instead of setting pole position qualification times. Qualifying first or 2nd pretty much guarantees you get hit by somebody.

"Qualifying first or 2nd pretty much guarantees you get hit by somebody."
Only in low rank servers but being first or second is better then being middle front

". I guess I have to drive with a different mentality and just "rank up safety first" instead of setting pole position qualification times"
Yes exactly you get it! =) From U to E this is what i did, tried start as far back as possible and drive safe. Drive slow
past accident not to get involved, slowing down really helps getting traction for wheels to turn. Also some tracks have higher chance off accident at
start then others. Monza is a great example that will allways fail a start in U-ranked races.

takaii
28-09-2017, 12:37
It only depends on what happens to your car. And yes, if someone rams you, that affects also your safety rating, but just a tiny bit, only one crash is unimportant for you on that matter, at least while you haven't ranked up your safety ranking. For the crasher it is very important though, because he will accumulate "negative safety points" (my term :)) as he crashes more people than you, so his safety ranking will collapse. Personally I advanced to C ranking while being bumped at least once or twice probably in every single race I did till then, so I wouldn't worry too much for the occasional rams if I were you. Later, I could join highly ranked servers (from the safety point of view) and my races have been exceptionally clean since then, most of them do not even include a single contact with other drivers. And that made it easy to advance my safety ranking even higher.

Agree a few misstakes per race seem to be ok. Btw hello cpcdem, its me naaajs on steam ;)

honespc
28-09-2017, 12:42
Are you still going on about this? Do you make mistakes yourself? Do you think the person you made a mistake with thinks you rammed them? Mistakes happen get over it.

The system is fine for safe racers and if it doesn't work for you then I am sorry but you are not safe and are taking too many risks, I can fight for a podium andblah blah blah
blah blah

blahWell you know. The world of the internet might look wonderful from your point of view, that who always plays with close friends and/or in serious leagues, and see his ranking ramping up as champagne foam on Christmas. Life is so beautiful. People don't understand and like to vent their problems and behave like raging orks at forum and blahblah that, right?

But when you set your foot back on Earth, and taste the reality of the public rooms regarding they are U, F or E, then you might begin to witness your pink sea of happiness turning into into the red colour of WAAAAGGHHH!!, and that, perhaps, It may not be as easy as you think to get a better rating letter.

...

Neil Bateman
28-09-2017, 12:45
No ranking/rating system in any racing game is 100% perfect, the innocent will always at some point suffer at the hands of the idiots, its impossible for any game to determine exactly who is to blame for any accident because on many occasions even watching crashes its hard to to know who is at fault, the game does not watch a replay back and then decide, it knows there is contact but doesn't know who's fault it it 100%
As has been said before, first few races forget trying to show how good you are, forget pole position, forget race wins and go in with a mentality of just logging clean laps, better racing will come with patience.

Alternatively we could go back to having no system in place at all and go back to racing in demolition derby's forever.:eagerness:

Charger
28-09-2017, 12:57
Well you know. The world of the internet might look wonderful from your point of view, that who always plays with close friends and/or in serious leagues, and see his ranking ramping up as champagne foam on Christmas. Life is so beautiful. People don't understand and like to vent their problems and behave like raging orks at forum and blahblah that, right?

But when you set your foot back on Earth, and taste the reality of the public rooms regarding they are U, F or E, then you might begin to witness your pink sea of happiness turning into into the red colour of WAAAAGGHHH!!, and that, perhaps, It may not be as easy as you think to get a better rating letter.

...

I don't wear rose coloured spectacles, I know what goes on in public lobbies and without a rating system you have the crashfest that is PCars 1, so you are suggesting that no rating system is a better option, I think you need to come out of the clouds my good man ;-)

As you will see I stated that we play OPEN lobbies and we allow randoms to join but we police the server tightly, come join a race and it may open your eyes.

Also for your info the safety rating does not stop you joining the lobbies the driver rating does, lets say it's set to A1500 and you are U1500 you can still join, did you know that?

takaii
28-09-2017, 12:58
As has been said before, first few races forget trying to show how good you are, forget pole position, forget race wins and go in with a mentality of just logging clean laps, better racing will come with patience.


THIS!

Also..
Im annoyed with people complain on others that they cant rank.

but they seem like they have problem to slow down during a crash they can clearly see beforehand.
Complain about starts but yet put themselves at risk by knowing it will be a crash or 2.

Im B ranked now but when i was C ranked i wanted to risk my rank to prove i could race without a single crash in a clouded U rank race.
29 competitive U ranked drivers was in that race. In front off me i saw 5 big craches involving 2-6 cars each crash. I started last. Slowed down before the sharp first turn,
in accidents i allways slowed down didnt try to pass everybody, some manage to get back on road. Also people in this rank can really drive into you to get before you
so if i saw someone close enought i let them pass in a way i knew would be safe. Driving to slow can also cause crash. The safest pace is in the race pace.
I ended up 6th place only passing drivers in crashes. Drive safe in low ranks is a good way to also collect score for skill

takaii
28-09-2017, 13:06
Also for your info the safety rating does not stop you joining the lobbies the driver rating does, lets say it's set to A1500 and you are U1500 you can still join, did you know that?

Its a bug. I repported it and its confirmed. But people with to low skill points can also join.
Here is link to my repport
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53143-Bug-repport-Low-safety-ranked-players-able-to-join-high-ranked

honespc
28-09-2017, 13:23
Also for your info the safety rating does not stop you joining the lobbies the driver rating does, lets say it's set to A1500 and you are U1500 you can still join, did you know that?yeah. That's another bug I think.

Charger
28-09-2017, 13:38
Yeah I know it's a bug but it will give him a chance to race in A.B.C races to show that it's not all a crashfest, U and F are to be avoided if possible, if he didn't know it was possible then he wouldn't have tried to join them.

takaii
28-09-2017, 13:42
Yeah I know it's a bug but it will give him a chance to race in A.B.C races to show that it's not all a crashfest, U and F are to be avoided if possible, if he didn't know it was possible then he wouldn't have tried to join them.

If he cant rank he should learn that through misstakes. Not rank cause others wont crash into him through not deserved ranks. This bug is no good. People should understand difference between active avoiding crashes and passive avoiding crashes. All others will active avoid crash. Its super simple to rank if one drive careful and will deserv rank appropirate

Charger
28-09-2017, 14:01
If he cant rank he should learn that through misstakes. Not rank cause others wont crash into him through not deserved ranks. This bug is no good. People should understand difference between active avoiding crashes and passive avoiding crashes. All others will active avoid crash. Its super simple to rank if one drive careful and will deserv rank appropirate

I agree, I was just throwing it out there to see if he still gets rammed in say an A rated server, it might show where the problem is ;-)

takaii
28-09-2017, 17:27
Just drove E-rank game man what they crashed xD Seriously! It was filled with C-E rank drivers and everybody was hitting eachother like no different from first day U race on releaseday. They blaimed it was a new map... Lol. Its to easy to gain these safety scores. im b rank now and i dont think i deserve it yet. I think im D safety rank imo. Its too forgiving. I hit 1 driver who slided off road infront of me, and did another crash becuase i slided and got hit by another. Also i crashed into wall once! All during one race, Still am E-ranked! The reason was not new map, it was my first time on it but i could have driven more careful or practiced on it first. It was a safety risk joining that map and that should be taken into account as misstake from me to even go as hard as i did. Serously how forgiving can a game be! Last race got crashed at start. 3 races with b rank license now and I made couple misstakes in each, still B ranked. I know people might say they have issue to rank up form U. Thats not true its too easy you guys just dont understand its your own fault most times if you recognize your issues and stop blaiming others you will be more safe driver. it feels like the general people believe they drive safer then they do and deserv more then they do. Then go complain its to hard when it really isnt. Safety rank should be because you are not involved in many accident. im b rank yet im involved atleast once each race. i dont deserv it and yet people complain they cant go up form U rank. its hilarious i cant even imagine all misstakes one must do to be in U after couple races. how can one even blaim others when they still race like shit in F ranked races and some E ranked.

E rank is the new U rank

Daynja
28-09-2017, 17:46
E rank is the new U rank


No, No it isnt.


Bad drivers are the new and forever U rank

takaii
28-09-2017, 17:48
No, No it isnt.


Bad drivers are the new and forever U rank

Except that e-rank race it was like a U race ;) in that case it was true for me

Daynja
28-09-2017, 17:52
Except that e-rank race it was like a U race ;) in that case it was true for me

Yet you pain the picture by stating E is the new U rank, as if it were always as such, which it isn't.

takaii
28-09-2017, 18:01
Yet you pain the picture by stating E is the new U rank, as if it were always as such, which it isn't.

My fault then

Kebabfelix
28-09-2017, 18:02
I've been going from U to E and back serveral times.

Not doing anything different, depends on how many people rearend me or how many times I go off the track.

I think at A,B,C you can start to tell whos safe and not.

takaii
28-09-2017, 18:05
I've been going from U to E and back serveral times.

Not doing anything different, depends on how many people rearend me or how many times I go off the track.

I think at A,B,C you can start to tell whos safe and not.

Agree i feel the same but expressing it seem wrong :confused: But i dont find any A-B-C ranked games. D is the highest ive seen in GT3. No one joines these ranks so i guess its safe xD

bmanic
28-09-2017, 18:18
I think we just have to give it a bit more time. I find that usually people with 1500+ points also seem to race better than somebody with 1100+ points. Knowing the track layout and being decently fast minimizes collisions and problems. Truly slow people are as dangerous as wreckers because you can not foresee when they will be turning or braking, usually at completely the wrong positions on track.

So yeah, people with high safety rating AND a high skill rating can usually be considered 'safe' people.

Btw, I'm up to 'E' rank now that I've stopped qualifying and just driving from the end of the pack. Have won a few 20+ people servers due to everybody crashing out. It just shows how incredibly divided the "skill pool" is currently. So many people struggling and just not having a single clue of how to race the most basic of tracks, like Monza. Yet they insist on starting servers with LMP1 cars or the vintage LMP stuff, with all aids disabled. :D

Glasnost
28-09-2017, 22:08
Finally raced in a FPlus server last night. Although it was only F... most of us in were E rated
I have to say the quality in racing was night and day! no ramming and for the most part most collisions were due to mistakes like spinning in front of the main pack or locking up. No one trying to think they could late brake the whole field in one corner.
It was an absolute blast.... well until the pack sorted itself out and i end up running in p4 or p5 by myself because im 2-4 seconds slower than the leaders but 1-2 seconds faster then the people behind, then I was just a bit lonely.

Rodgerzzz
28-09-2017, 22:55
Don't know what the situation is on other consoles but I'm not seeing an awful lot of servers with anything above F rating, haven't seen anything above D anywhere. You guys experiencing the same when looking for races? Either I'm not looking in the right place or everybody on PS4 are useless drivers...

bmanic
28-09-2017, 22:58
I just had an awesome race in a E+ server. Yes, there was some mayhem at T1 but the rest of the race was epic fun with very competitive people (most around or above 1500 skill).

Umer Ahmad
29-09-2017, 03:00
It should take longer to progress through each level. Hopefully that is how they have done it
^Correct, it is progressive.

I was one of the designers for the innards of this Online Rating system (Online Lead Mike Laskey was the primary model author). My background is in financial risk modeling prior to joining SMS. Some of the goals of the model are to encourage early momentum/achievement (U -> C) while making the highest ranks (B -> S) something more difficult to achieve and therefore more meaningful. The Safety Score model penalizes any "dirty" behavior (examples: hitting walls/objects/opponents, off-track excursions and/or other etiquette violations). I won't list everything and the point value of each (partially because we want to observe how the model is performing on the broad population, also we don't want people "gaming the system").

Is the model perfect? No. Modeling human behavior is one of the toughest things on the planet (just ask anyone from failed i-banks such as Bear Stearns or Lehman Bros.) However, we believe we captured the major factors, time will tell and we can make adjustments in the future. The model is a bit flexible, one example: it allows for more "touching" in RallyCross versus other non-RX racing formats.

On the bi-lateral fault assignment, it's a good starting point (and empirically proven in other racing games). Ideally, we would have a human Race Director that could watch every race and properly assign blame for every incident (well even that's impossible but let's say correct 80% of the time at least). Obviously this is cost prohibitive, SMS cannot hire that many "live" Race Directors to watch every race. There were some modeling techniques we considered for helping with fault assignment but in the end even they were not perfect. This led us to the 50-50 identification model which, over time, will correctly select the clean vs. dirty drivers.

Personally I'm happy to see already some "B" drivers. The intention was not to keep clean racers locked very long in the lower levels (we could have done the model that way but felt that would be discouraging). Each person, given enough time will eventually get to their "final" level. The cleaner you are the faster it will be achieved. For the truly bad drivers, they will probably "max out" at C (or lower) -- the model does eventually plateau for each type of player that we modeled: Rookie, Veteran, Pro.

Hope this helps you understand things better. With any statistical/mathematical models there are always constraints and these models are continuously evolving/improving, they will never be 100% "correct". We will keep an eye how things are going and also make changes as needed to give you guys a better online experience. It's very early right now to say if it is working good/bad. Certainly I have seen much more appreciative posts than complaints about the online license both here and other forums.

cpcdem
29-09-2017, 05:08
Thank you for the info! And congrats for the system design, in my experience so far it has indeed already led to much cleaner driving.
Just a small comment though, not that I mind :) but I think I indeed went from C to B and from B to A a little bit too easily, more than I had expected. It didn't seem to be much harder than going from E to D or D to C. Going from A to S proves to be a lot more difficult though, which is good.

surtic86
29-09-2017, 06:33
An Overwatch function (like in Counter Strike for Cheaters) as Race Directer would be fun who Normal Users can Rate the Incident witch fault it was ;)

@Umer Ahmad: Why is it possible to get from a Ranked F back to U (unranked?)? So every new Player has to deal first with Crash Boys and not just with new Guys?

Glasnost
29-09-2017, 08:28
Yeah having a "race steward" observer position in multiplayer would be amazing! he'd get alerts when contact takes place and an instant replay of the incident. He could then select the drivers involved which would put a text notification on their screen tjey are under investigation.
The steward could then assign penalties etc.
That'd be so awesome.. I'd probably give up racing and just do that.

Bealdor
29-09-2017, 08:35
How can you see that you only need 2 more races to rank up to another safetyrating?

You can't. And before you ask, yes that's on purpose. ;)

takaii
29-09-2017, 12:00
Thank you for the info! And congrats for the system design, in my experience so far it has indeed already led to much cleaner driving.
Just a small comment though, not that I mind :) but I think I indeed went from C to B and from B to A a little bit too easily, more than I had expected. It didn't seem to be much harder than going from E to D or D to C. Going from A to S proves to be a lot more difficult though, which is good.

Exactly it feels way to easy

takaii
29-09-2017, 12:03
Yeah having a "race steward" observer position in multiplayer would be amazing! he'd get alerts when contact takes place and an instant replay of the incident. He could then select the drivers involved which would put a text notification on their screen tjey are under investigation.
The steward could then assign penalties etc.
That'd be so awesome.. I'd probably give up racing and just do that.

i agree replay of incident would be great. Not needed during race thats a safety risk: but if one retire to pit or drive in pit to change tires being able to watch replay then. That would help a lot