PDA

View Full Version : Optimum Tyre-Pressures & Optimal Tyre-Temperarures



Renoldo1990
26-09-2017, 21:46
Hey,

At the moment i'm struggling a bit with setting the pressures for the tyres right.
What I need is a chart in which I can read out:

1.) the optimum tyre pressures of each Tyre-Compound (PSY/hot)
2.) the optimum range for the tyre-temperatures of each Tyre-Compund (°Celsius)

So what i need is something like that:

240835

(This is from an AC Pressures/Temperature Chart)

How can I get these Data for Pcars 2? (As a none PC-Player)
Maybe the Devs or WMD-People have already created such a chart?

I'm glad for every help!

Bealdor
26-09-2017, 22:04
What you're asking for can't be provided because there are too many dynamic factors in the game that affect your tyres.

- weather
- track and ambient temperature
- brake temperature
- track grip, etc.

A setup that works well for your qualifying at Barcelona with sunny summer weather can be totally useless for a race in spring at Oulton Park.
The most important thing is to get your tyres in the right temperature window but what pressure you have to set to achieve this can vary a lot.

Renoldo1990
26-09-2017, 22:17
Hey,

I'm not talking of the Pressures which you can adjust in the setup-menu.
I'm talking about the 'hot pressures', which already include the calculation of weather, track and ambient temperature, brake temperatures, driving style etc. etc.
The ones which you can read out while driving in the telemetry (in PSY).

Concerning this matter each of the tyre compounds in the game should have an value (in Psy) at which the tyre works best.
Also each tyre compound should have a temperature range in which the tyre works best.

For example at AC you could get the best of the soft-slicks of the Ferrari 488 GT3 when you had the tyre pressure at 26 PSY and in the temperature range between 70 and 85° while driving (see chart above).
I'm quite sure that such values exist for P.Cars-2, too. I just don't know how to read them out.

Javaniceday
26-09-2017, 22:33
.
The most important thing is to get your tyres in the right temperature window but what pressure you have to set to achieve this can vary a lot.

So what's more important, temperature, or pressure? 'cuz sometimes to get the right temperature, you have to pump up the pressure on a tire that's overheating due to all the left hand turns. But this will reduce the contact patch, doesn't it? So you're at a right temp but the tire is riding on the proverbial pin prick, giving you less overall grip.

So is it just a matter of a balance?

Renoldo1990
26-09-2017, 22:42
So what's more important, temperature, or pressure? 'cuz sometimes to get the right temperature, you have to pump up the pressure on a tire that's overheating due to all the left hand turns. But this will reduce the contact patch, doesn't it? So you're at a right temp but the tire is riding on the proverbial pin prick, giving you less overall grip.

So is it just a matter of a balance?

This is something I'm really interested in too.
At AC it was clearly the case that the right Pressure (the pressure while driving) was more important than hitting the perfect temperature. How is it in P.CARS-2?

pri3st
26-09-2017, 23:34
Yes it would be useful. I've looked in the game manual but nothing there.

Wayne Kerr
26-09-2017, 23:41
different game, different tire model, different physics model.

Jussi Karjalainen
27-09-2017, 01:33
There will be more on these subjects in the future. All of them vary heavily from car to car, tyre to tyre.

Purg
27-09-2017, 01:44
There will be more on these subjects in the future. All of them vary heavily from car to car, tyre to tyre.

Do the default setups on PC take this into account per car and per track or are they pretty generic and it's a 'watch this space...' deal?

Jussi Karjalainen
27-09-2017, 01:48
The pressures should be quite close to "optimal" values (how they actually end up doing is of course dependent on how hot the tyres and brakes will run at the track...), optimal temps for hard slicks tend to be in the ~90°C region, softs more like 70-80°C depending on the car.

On the road cars the Softs tend to work at their best in the 80-90°C region, the Mediums and Hard at lower temps (they're designed to be useful right when you set off, and not require any warming up to perform decently).

EMW Smiler
27-09-2017, 01:49
There will be more on these subjects in the future. All of them vary heavily from car to car, tyre to tyre.

If it's some more Jussimagic ( diff sticky ) will be waiting like Santa's coming......

Jussi Karjalainen
27-09-2017, 02:04
Nothing like that, since it's situational rather than just pure maths. I'm just thinking of making a video series that will focus on different kinds of cars and their quirks and properties.

This will take time though, so don't expect me to cover every car by the end of the week. I'm still on vacation until next week. =)

Renoldo1990
27-09-2017, 07:54
The pressures should be quite close to "optimal" values (how they actually end up doing is of course dependent on how hot the tyres and brakes will run at the track...)

How do I find out about those optimal values?
As far as i know the "optimal" value for example for GTE/GT3 Cars lies at around 26 PSY. On the other hand for some street cars those "optimal" value is at over 40 PSY.

To deviate slightly from those values (2-3 PSY) will result in a different handling and comes in with certain advantages and disadavantages.
But if you drive a GT3-Car with for example 40 PSY, it's definitely the wrong way to go.

In reality the tyre-manufacturer usually gives values for recommended minimum-tyre-pressures and recommended maximal tyre-pressures.
Such values would help me a lot.

Thomas Sikora
27-09-2017, 08:32
The pressures should be quite close to "optimal" values (how they actually end up doing is of course dependent on how hot the tyres and brakes will run at the track...), optimal temps for hard slicks tend to be in the ~90°C region, softs more like 70-80°C depending on the car.

On the road cars the Softs tend to work at their best in the 80-90°C region, the Mediums and Hard at lower temps (they're designed to be useful right when you set off, and not require any warming up to perform decently).

That would be a nice improvement to give a information in game for the chosen tire what the optimum temperatur window is. (Different kind of slicks, different cars and so on...there are much informations ;)
e.g. you select this tire and see somewere (Recom.: 85-90°C )

Ex01
27-09-2017, 10:29
F1 cars work at X temp regardless of the weather or conditions they have an operating window.

Hope in time we can get that operation window made available.

Rob van Leeuwen
05-10-2017, 09:56
For most of us, generally you have learned that you want to run a few laps on the race track, then check your tire temperatures. Most people will take the average of the inner and outer temperatures of each tire, and if the middle temperature reading is higher or lower than that number, you have either too much or too little tire pressure in that tire. The general rule of thumb is to adjust 1 psi for each 5° F difference that you desire.
Stole that from iracing.wikidot.com
But i don't know the optimal tyre temps.

rice_classic
05-10-2017, 17:05
Tire companies will list target temperatures and pressures; especially DOT radials Hankook, Hoosier, Toyo etc.

I would expect the tires in the game would have an optimal pressure AND temperature and it would be great to know what that is so we can target those and THEN set camber to maximize the tire from there.

fuschs
05-10-2017, 22:46
Think I read somewhere hot pressures are good around 1.80bar don't know what it is in PSI. Also I don't recall if it was hards or softs.. Maybe we can use this thread to test and share results. :)

Zenzic
06-10-2017, 07:28
Pirelli advises 1.9 to 2.2 bar for GT cars and 2.0 to 2.5 bar for tourism cars.

Source (https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/motorsport/all-tires/products-sheet/slick)

Racefancy
06-10-2017, 08:07
It varies tyre manufacturer to tyre manufacturer as well, so the best way to test with this game I have found is time trials because the game automatically sets your pressures to "hot" at the start of the lap and you can evaluate performance quickly instead of having to get them up to pressure for a few laps beforehand.

Renoldo1990
06-10-2017, 09:39
I noticed that for Time-Trial it is always fastest when you set the Tyre-Pressure to the possible minimum.
I mainly tried this with GT1 - for this class the minimum pressure is 1.3 bar.

Is it realistic that this is faster for one single lap?

Tepp
06-10-2017, 10:03
Tyre management was not the strongest side of the PC1 and the same is for PC2 - just set the minimum possible pressure and you're pretty much set. Seems they are always in the green zone after first lap, no matter what pressure or compound you set. This is to simplify things for casual players, I think. CrewChief tells me that the tyres are cold, but they are still green on the screen. That's it about the tyre management in PC.

fuschs
06-10-2017, 10:04
Is it realistic that this is faster for one single lap?

Not really. Normally you want lower pressures for consistent grip over a stint, and run them a bit higher in Qualifying so they reach the optimal temps and pressures quicker.

hkraft300
06-10-2017, 11:43
Is it realistic that this is faster for one single lap?

For qualifying or TT, maybe.

There are too many variables at play, from car type, to track type and weather conditions.

menos
08-10-2017, 06:08
That would be a nice improvement to give a information in game for the chosen tire what the optimum temperatur window is. (Different kind of slicks, different cars and so on...there are much informations ;)
e.g. you select this tire and see somewere (Recom.: 85-90°C )

This currently missing feature would be absolutely perfect!
Imagine this feature in combination with a properly working telemetry data plugin to enable the use of MoTeC or Aim telemetry software would be magnificent.
I cannot imagine using Assetto Corsa without MoTeC telemetry and PC2 feels very incomplete to me without it :-(

Marlborofranz
08-10-2017, 08:04
Just need to throw something in. In the setup menu you can also see the inner, middle and outer temperatures of each tire/contact patch. The outer temperature is mostly lower than the inside temperature. And the tire preassure needs to be adjusted, so when the tire is warmed up, it is exactly in the middle between inner and outer temperatures.

Exaggerated example: Inner temperature: 90°, outer temperature 80° --> In this case the middle temperature should be 85° on fully warmed up tires.

If the middle temperature is over 85 degrees - lower preassure.
If the middle temperature is under 85 degrees - raise the preassure.

Check and repeat until it is somewhat correct. Because the tire preassure influences the shape of the tire und thus also the shape of the contact patch. To optimize tire wear and grip you should stick with this.

And this is also the reason why you can't simply run some tire preassure. The tire preassure is not directly the reason for having optimum tire grip. The contact patch is the reason for optimum tire grip. And the contact patch/tire behaviour changes with different tracks and temperatures/seasons/weather conditions. Tire preassure is just a variable you can always adjust for your tire to perform as good as possible under certain conditions...

Edit:
And of course if you have less preassure, you have a bigger contact patches, but therefore more roll resistance and excessive tire wear. If the preassure is too high, you have less roll resistance, but also a smaller contact patch with the road but also a bit less wear. However, the temperatures will also be influenced by the car setup. (mainly camber and toe, I guess). So if you make a weird or extreme setup, the tire temperatures can also go crazy. So I would adjust the car setup to be somewhat close to the optimum tire temperatures and THEN adjust the tire preassure to have an even falloff from the inside to the outside tire temperatures.

Ralph B
03-02-2018, 17:34
That's the way I set up tires since GPL over GTL up to pCars and it worked fine so far. Was already a bit problematic in pCars, but doesn't really work satisfying in pCars 2. When concentrating on a balanced tire temperatur with some cars I end up with almost an flat. That can't be the right way.
Of course the right pressure depends from track, car and weatherconditions, but there must be a starting point, arround that you can vary your setting. But I don't have the feel, that the default setting is even near a good average pressure, where the tire generally works. The manufactureres of street cars give advice for tire pressures under two or three different situations (how many load you have in the car or driving mainly on highweays for example). They might not be the absolute optimum, but are a good starting point. And for shure a increase or decrease of more than 0,4-0,5 bare from that basic-value is too much and the tire is copletely out of range to work as desired. I realy whished to find out at least a sensefull starting point in pCars2 without testing several days.

Redster
03-02-2018, 18:05
I realy whished to find out at least a sensefull starting point in pCars2 without testing several days.

Have a look here

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

Ralph B
03-02-2018, 22:49
Thanks! That was exactly what I was looking for! It's really frustrating to start from almost nothing and to compare countless settings until you find a halfways useable basic-pressure.

Albertsen
05-02-2018, 15:46
It varies tyre manufacturer to tyre manufacturer as well, so the best way to test with this game I have found is time trials because the game automatically sets your pressures to "hot" at the start of the lap and you can evaluate performance quickly instead of having to get them up to pressure for a few laps beforehand.

This isn't measured in the game, right? RIGHT?
I mean, a Ferrari on Michelin and the same Ferrari on Yirotyres will have the same optimal temps?