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View Full Version : SMS if you want to take simracing to the more casuals fans you have to teach them



Kebabfelix
28-09-2017, 06:38
It's obvious that Project Cars 2 is not a niche game and is focused on reaching out to a new playerbase and that is a great idea to get your average Joe who likes cars and racing but have never played a real racing simulator.


So the problem right now is that the learning curve is quite steep for a "normal" player.

There is no tutorial or guidance of the racing rules and jumping into multiplayer is very brutal for these new guys.

Some of them are like 10 seconds of pace and still learning all there is about car control and weight distribution, but not only do they have to learn how to drive. They also have to understand and comply with all blue flags, yellow flags and where to enter and exit pit.

It's a lot of overwhelming stuff and really no way to learn.

For the simracers and motorsports fan it's no problem we already know most of these rules but for the new player there is no way they would even know what a blue flag means.

There are probably a lot of new guys who are willing to learn but find it very hard to adapt. It would make our servers and online experience better for everyone involved! :eagerness:

Suggestion:

May I suggest adding a small video series inside the game that can help introducing racing rules or even car control.

Have clips like "How to control your car when it's about to spin out" or "Racing rules 101"

There could be a lot of interesting videos you can add and well I'm guessing your media department are not way too busy right now so there probably is time to do it.

Zenzic
28-09-2017, 08:07
Youtube is filled to the brim with videos about car control (Motor Trend's "The Racing Line" series comes to mind, not saying it's that good though). I'd rather SMS spends time improving the game instead of replicating content that already exists elsewhere. This game being what it is, it's also not unreasonable to expect players to have some understanding of the basics already.

Leper Messiah
28-09-2017, 08:11
Youtube is filled to the brim with videos about car control (Motor Trend's "The Racing Line" series comes to mind, not saying it's that good though). I'd rather SMS spends time improving the game instead of replicating content that already exists elsewhere. This game being what it is, it's also not unreasonable to expect players to have some understanding of the basics already.

Even though I understand where the OP is coming from (Elite Dangerous has good tutorial vids), I agree that the internet is awash with vids and info. Newcomers should be internet savvy enough to search for info as a lot of it is highly relevant to all the sims. Only issue I have is older people who may not be so internet savvy.

whip
28-09-2017, 08:19
Youtube is filled to the brim with videos about car control (Motor Trend's "The Racing Line" series comes to mind, not saying it's that good though). I'd rather SMS spends time improving the game instead of replicating content that already exists elsewhere. This game being what it is, it's also not unreasonable to expect players to have some understanding of the basics already.

you have to keep in mind that most people in the world are too stupid to look something up or read an instruction manual, most humans aren't that smart in general

Zenzic
28-09-2017, 08:25
^ I completely disapprove of your comment. So tired of this stuff. Keep in mind that "most people" means there's a good chance we're part of that group of "stupids". Also, you might consider using punctuation and capitalization when posting something like that.

Leper Messiah
28-09-2017, 08:27
you have to keep in mind that most people in the world are too stupid to look something up or read an instruction manual, most humans aren't that smart in general

People that stupid shouldn't be playing something sim like at all then?

Bealdor
28-09-2017, 08:30
you have to keep in mind that most people in the world are too stupid to look something up or read an instruction manual, most humans aren't that smart in general

People aren't stupid, they're just lazy.

SIR_Driftalot
28-09-2017, 08:46
No. Just no.
Pcars/SMS is onto a good thing, and tends to deliver for the most part.
Personally, All my favourite games have either steep learning curves or heavy casual filters.

NFS/forza is what your looking for if you need a tuturiol on basic driving physics or basic flag systems that have been in place for nearly 50 years.

Please don't ruin this for the rest of us.

SreRacha
28-09-2017, 08:48
Id prefer something like GT2's licensing, that game is the only reason im not terrible at Racing sims.

Invincible
28-09-2017, 08:49
I wouldn't mind a driving school as long as it isn't mandatory. *cough* Gran Turismo *cough*

DreamsKnight
28-09-2017, 08:50
https://www.google.it/search?q=how+flag+works+in+motorsport&oq=how+flag+works+in+motorsport&aqs=chrome..69i57.6895j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.it/search?q=how+to+drive+properly+in+racing+games&oq=how+to+drive+properly+in+simracing&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.33i160k1.71779.78300.0.80256.29.29.0.0.0.0.147.2755.15j13.28.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.28.2754...0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i19k1j0i22i30i19k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.0.oI16qMr9RzI

Diluvian
28-09-2017, 08:54
I like the suggestions. If you want to bring the community to a new level of online experience you can't expect that most of them visit youtube before entering the online lobby. There are a lot of ways trying to get some organization into it to make everyone clear what this place/game is all about :). To work out your suggestions a little further:

- seperate ranked from unranked games (the whole lobby needs some sticking out "buttons" to select if you want ranked or unranked games).
- when first entering the online lobby your automatically inside the "unranked" lobby and it's enough to create a tutorial-popup (as already used in the game in several areas) which tells you that there are no rules and that you can have fun like always before. If you change to ranked games there are certainly a lot of different ways to sensitize the players that it's all about clean & competitive driving and that you'll get penalized for driving unfair and ignoring the rules:
--- Intro Video about the general ranked game player behaviour and the rank system
--- Gran Turismo style course where you have to achieve some easy tasks (which max take 20minutes to achieve) to get the badge of being able to participate on ranked matches:
--------- Entering Pit lane and use of pit limiter
--------- Standing / Rolling start procedure
--------- Driving careful in crowded situations without incidents (e.g. driving first 2 corners with 20 AI players and your inbetween)
--------- etc..
--- There could be more optional videos / tutorials about more advanced stuff like tire warmup, setting up a car, multiclass racing (rules etc.), different gearboxes..

But in the end I don't know if that would make it better at all :)

breyzipp
28-09-2017, 08:57
I think it would be a great idea to implement it. It HAS the be linked / accessible from within the game though, not a forum sticky or a YouTube playlist. Could be done in the style of the in-game Dirt Rally tutorial videos, those were excellent. Or maybe even tutorial gameplay like Dirt 4 but I would guess that’s too much work to implement for the current game.

There is all sorts of stuff that people need to know when they come from games like Forza, just to name a few :

* different tyre types and the effect of weather
* racing etiquette
* basic car setups / how to test a car / what to look for and what question to ask the engineer
* using the HUD during races and the ICM / pit stop strategies etc
* ....

You could go seriously in-depth as well. For example from reading this forum about the problematic Ginetta GT5 race in the cold at Snetteron I already learned a lot from all the replies (like giving rain tyres a try).

RoccoTTS
28-09-2017, 09:01
Youtube is filled to the brim with videos about car control (Motor Trend's "The Racing Line" series comes to mind, not saying it's that good though). I'd rather SMS spends time improving the game instead of replicating content that already exists elsewhere. This game being what it is, it's also not unreasonable to expect players to have some understanding of the basics already.

"The Racing Line" is very interesting to watch : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGvTvFzdMg_N86Ovr05-wgrjTam_2tH-p

In general, if you want to learn everything about racing, just watch as many races as possible on TV or youtube. And keep in mind : google is your friend !

Civic
28-09-2017, 09:22
Apart from understanding race rules such as flags which are dictated by the racing body which in this case is Project CARS I think http://safeisfast.com/ might be the single best resource for someone to learn about racing and get the information that will help them develop as a race driver.

At the end of the day it's to most people it's just a game so they wouldn't treat it as more and trying to force people to treat it as more would alienate the majority. But for some of us it is a platform that we wish to simulate something from real life. Because of that I'd say at the moment PCARS doesn't need to do more other than perhaps drivers briefings that might cover rules unique to a series. In the real world if you join a race series they don't teach you or include schools, they give you events and organisation. It is up to you to be a better driver. So PCARS isn't missing anything but...

If SMS were going to add this in the future to one of the later PCARS releases I'd be looking at http://safeisfast.com/ as it might be the single best resource for driver instruction and development of the kind that would be helpful to people playing this game. If I was going to include anything like that I'd be either looking to imitate that or work with them.

Bealdor
28-09-2017, 09:35
Btw. thanks for the reminder guys.

I've put up a sticky thread for this now: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53371-How-to-Develop-Your-Racing-Skills

Cheesenium
28-09-2017, 10:26
I would like to have a driving school, though. Might be useful for new players.

Exoil
28-09-2017, 11:23
I would like to say that the Practice sessions in F! 2016 was amazing. Completing the different goals of the practice sessions helped me learn the tracks a lot more than simply just driving around on it.
Most of the times I improved my lap times a lot when I had done an hour of practice runs, where I ran through checkpoints and learned to keep the tires in the optimal range.

That's one of the best "tutorials" I've ever seen in a racing game

SreRacha
28-09-2017, 12:48
Id gladly pay for a driving school DLC

breyzipp
28-09-2017, 12:55
Btw. thanks for the reminder guys.

I've put up a sticky thread for this now: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53371-How-to-Develop-Your-Racing-Skills

Thanks! Could use something similar for tuning as well. Or even a separate forum section.

TenthDan
28-09-2017, 12:56
The best way is probably to start the career in the slower cars.

That's the curse of the 'everything unlocked from the start' way; you can't control what is accessed when to guide the player.

I agree driving schools are a good way to make sims approachable, but so are using assists and racing line etc... Except most people refuse to use assists / racing line because that means admitting one's skill level is lower than perhaps they desire :)

CodeCmdr
28-09-2017, 16:36
It would also be ideal if inexperienced drivers would race slower car classes in multiplayer, rather than going straight to GT3 and crashing out all the time. That's what I like about iRacing's safety rating system: it's not just a badge of honor, but an entry requirement for racing faster car classes online in competitive races.

RomKnight
28-09-2017, 16:47
Well, IRL it's mandatory to have a license to drive (unless you're caught that is) :D

Seriously though I'm to minded about that. Forcing it might be bad but might not be the worse thing ever in this case if it's done in a way that engages you to do it.

I always say people should learn to drive in a a circuit. Car control is much more needed than the "driving lessons" for the sake of it. Purposefully built tests in a controlled environment would take half the idiots off the roads IMO.

Road driving is just putting on kms/miles on the car. Nothing to it and not safe "learning" at 30kph or slower...

So games, for the more casual or even just early age enthusiasts, in the end, it can be looked at as a "1st" step.

OFC when just imposed it'll piss everyone more than anything. I don't have it nor i'm interested though... except for the virtual FIA license. My OCD wants that SO much :D

JDFSSS
28-09-2017, 16:52
It would also be ideal if inexperienced drivers would race slower car classes in multiplayer, rather than going straight to GT3 and crashing out all the time. That's what I like about iRacing's safety rating system: it's not just a badge of honor, but an entry requirement for racing faster car classes online in competitive races.

I've thought about that as well. It definitely works well in iracing. The problem with bringing that system to project cars is it's not the same crowd of people. People are going to be pissed if they can't race their GT3 cars online without grinding through some races (and possibly failing if they are a bad driver) they don't really care about. Perhaps there could be unranked online racing where everything is unlocked, but then it creates a problem of splitting up the community and making it harder to fill up lobbies in general. It is something to think about though, and I think OP is on to something when he says this game could do more to teach new players about racing.

Rob Olejniczak
28-09-2017, 22:11
This would be a great video series to watch.

From what I have experienced in online multiplayer lobbies so far I think chapters 7a through 9 would be very valuable for people to watch if they would like to be involved in a lot less wrecks and have more fun overall.

Whole Series Playlist

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuvYtSfEG90&list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6&index=11


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DScBhHNLKU&index=12&list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60u3xPBYzQU&list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6&index=13


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADB1cIuvhzc&list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6&index=14


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNs1KM1bzE&index=17&list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6

ELAhrairah
28-09-2017, 22:33
I have a proposition for online multiplayer: a player should only be allowed to pick a car he or she has raced more than an X amount of hours with offline. I think that it will take care of the “spinners”. There already is a log in your profile showing the hours you have driven with any specific car.

Bliman
28-09-2017, 23:21
You will always anger people if you constrict them in some way.
You basically have to set up a tier system.
I never play online because out of fear I am not good enough.
Maybe you could handle it in multiple ways.
Say you can begin with competing with 3 or 4 cars and you have to race a minimum of 10 races and thereafter you will be judged by a ratio of your ending place and how many penalties received. And if it is high enough you can proceed to the next level with 5 to 8 cars with the same rules to proceed.
And then to compete at the highest level you have to have completed the previous and have to drive some laptime that is within 5 sec of the best time.
To help others learn to drive you can also do several things. You can create some ghosts for different problems. Those that go in the corner to fast and brake to late, those whose driving lines are wrong (driving line helps and there shouldn't be such a stigma on it),etc..
And what is also important (and a good step is race engineer) is how to set up your car to suit your needs.
But the most important will always be practice practice and practice more. And make that aspect as fun as it can be.

Civic
28-09-2017, 23:45
It would also be ideal if inexperienced drivers would race slower car classes in multiplayer, rather than going straight to GT3 and crashing out all the time. That's what I like about iRacing's safety rating system: it's not just a badge of honor, but an entry requirement for racing faster car classes online in competitive races.

Except it doesn't work because you can TT your way up and because even without TT's it is far too easy to keep an A license. A B license is absolutely trivial something anyone can achieve even if they have contact almost every race.


You will always anger people if you constrict them in some way.

Pythons don't make everyone angry :P

Bliman
29-09-2017, 00:13
Except it doesn't work because you can TT your way up and because even without TT's it is far too easy to keep an A license. A B license is absolutely trivial something anyone can achieve even if they have contact almost every race.



Pythons don't make everyone angry :P

LOL:D
But you know what I mean