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ahf74
29-09-2017, 13:05
Hi guys, in our group of players we are noticing a noticeable difference between the Ferrari and the other GT3 cars, to the point that without much effort comes to lower the times in almost 2 seconds compared to other cars. At this moment we are seeing in the group to leave the Ferrari out of competition for the great difference seen.
This case reminds me of the Bentley in Pcars 1, where he barely made it out of the car.
This SMS problem has seen it?

whip
29-09-2017, 13:32
this guy says different

https://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=Ge53TPo2BIo&u=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8n0x_dysg9Y%26feature%3Dshare

ahf74
29-09-2017, 13:40
The tests we did was in Spa, where the acceleration of the Ferrari is much higher than the Porche as if it were standing still.
In the case of the video is a person who does the test, in our group the majority of the members made the same test noting the superiority of Ferrari.

3800racingfool
29-09-2017, 13:51
Have you or your group tested this across multiple circuits with multiple weather/time variations? You have to remember that, even in real life, some cars perform better at certain tracks/times of day/times of year than others (maybe not 2 seconds difference but a still noticeable one). For example, I haven't tested the Ferrari yet but out of the half-dozen GT3's I tested at Oulton Park recently, I was about 2 seconds faster in the Ginetta (a car that is usually overlooked due to it's underpoweredness) vs the others.

Balles
29-09-2017, 13:54
It depends on the tracks. The few tests I made show the Ferrari have a big advantage on all high speed tracks with long straight. And it is not bad on the others. Makes it the faster GT3 overall imo.

AbeWoz
29-09-2017, 13:56
GT3 is so dependent on track its crazy. Also, the 488 might have a 'better' default setup than the other cars.

Also, since its turbocharged, it will have an advantage over the NA cars at higher altitudes. Turbo: 650S, GTR, M6, 488, NSX, Bentley, ATS, RS.01. NA cars are AMG, SLS, R8, Aston, Huracan, Z4, 911, G55

ahf74
29-09-2017, 14:48
It has been tested in several circuits, and in general we notice that it is superior.
By this I don't mean that with other cars you can't make good times, the problem that with Ferrari is easily achieved without touching almost anything of the setup.

1185323118
29-09-2017, 19:08
Pcars2 is a British game, SMS should make G55 more OP :P (joking)

Zpectre87
29-09-2017, 19:13
The tests we did was in Spa, where the acceleration of the Ferrari is much higher than the Porche as if it were standing still.
In the case of the video is a person who does the test, in our group the majority of the members made the same test noting the superiority of Ferrari.

911 has weak engine compared to Ferrari. In GT3 the Porsche has one of the weakest engines.

gabi1478
29-09-2017, 21:20
the ferrari its a living lies !! the G force its unreal for that car. You guys compare only power and left behind HP/weight, that really matter to say that car its more power than.......
The ferrari is a huge lie for the category

Karl87
02-10-2017, 04:52
Basically the Ferrari 488 is unbeatable, every track. Now I have followed sports car racing a long time and I have not seen anything in reality to mirror this. The GT3 cars should have their differences but BOP rules exist for a reason, as it stands now some cars are total crap while there are only 3 cars that compete, the mclaren, the R8 and then the dominant 488. Look at every leaderboard and you will find the 488 is on your average sized track 4-6 seconds faster than every single other GT3 car. I hate that this sounds like a rant but when GT3 is the most popular car choice for MP it puts anyone who does not want to drive the 488 at a disadvantage. I don't expect a change now, but I do hope that just like in real life there is some balance added in this class.

takaii
02-10-2017, 05:47
I agree that some cars are slow but not all. But f488 isnt that fast.
If you think about what ratio how many uses f488
its a big chance it will win because since so many uses it then its a high risk
its also driven by someone really good. I feel the car is easy to drive,
looks really awesome and sounds great its just enjoyable to drive. Thats
what i beleive makes it populare. The first thing i did was used that, to me it felt slow
on spa i had 2:17:xx on pc1 with 12c now with f488 i only have 2:20:xx. But i feel all gt3 cars
drives slower. But i havent driven mamy yet i thinks 488 is looking awesome.
But i feel the car stock settings is pretty much oversteer. It wants to go straight in corners. On a course
with many turns i might consider 911 it feels awesome mid turn.

ElPolloDiablo234
02-10-2017, 06:48
The f488gt3 is definitly a bit fast on the straights. I used the audiR8 and was battling in a race at Red Bull Ring. Even if I was faster getting out of the corners, at the end of the straights the 488 got me really easy. It may be a setup-thing, but I experienced the faster 488 a few times now.

takaii
02-10-2017, 07:14
The f488gt3 is definitly a bit fast on the straights. I used the audiR8 and was battling in a race at Red Bull Ring. Even if I was faster getting out of the corners, at the end of the straights the 488 got me really easy. It may be a setup-thing, but I experienced the faster 488 a few times now.

Try less downforce :)

bmanic
02-10-2017, 07:19
The GT3 group is really well balanced. There are a few clearly slower cars (BMW Z4 / Aston Martin) but the rest are pretty damn well balanced and in the hands of mediocre drivers (at the moment the vast VAST majority of players online) it's extremely balanced and just depends on your driving style.

Simply suggesting that the 488 GT3 is fastest confirms this.. because it isn't.

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 07:26
Let the leaderboards, setups and drivers mature a little.
Then the times will be more representative :)

Also turbo cars have advantage at high altitude over NA cars.

Brett_NZ
02-10-2017, 08:18
Just about to start the Gt3 series in a dilemma what car to go with .Want something balanced looking at the Nissan or Honda .

takaii
02-10-2017, 09:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzcV6tM94Co :D

whip
02-10-2017, 09:33
the gt3 field is pretty balanced actually, the aston feels a little slow but for the most part the balance aint bad

A3jan
02-10-2017, 09:41
The 488 is pretty fast on the straits. But i think the car is les consistent
in the corners as the Nissan and porsche ( not driven all cars yet).
But they seem to have much more front end grip.

Djuvinile
02-10-2017, 09:57
Here's a video comparing all gt3's at laguna seca.
This is just one person and he might not be the fastest racer, so i dont know if its the fairest comparison, but i like what he says about the different cars speed and handling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n0x_dysg9Y

IJerichoI
02-10-2017, 10:06
I think the situation on the leaderboards also comes down to the Ferrari beeing a) very popular and b) easier to drive. So maybe a share of 60% drives the 488, 40 all the other ones (not based on anything, just to show what I mean). This may give the impression it is better than the other ones.

Well, online I was constantly as fast as the 488 with the SLS AMG GT3. In the races I attended there are also usually many 488 on the start. I also think that 2 weeks are too short to evaluate this.

What I want to ask the OP: how do you compare yourself the Ferrari to the other ones, laptime wise? And: is this the case for all tracks?

Before concluding that the BoP needs a change, it would be useful to prove this at least in some way.

The video above shows that there is basically a spread of 2 seconds for all cars and the same driver at one track. To me this is really even, as some might pull faster laps with one of the slower cars and vice-versa, let alone with customized setups.

bmanic
02-10-2017, 15:08
.. not to mention I seem to be winning most of my GT3 races when I'm in the McLaren 650. I've also thoroughly tested these cars during WMD2, probably hundreds of hours, around Long Beach and most of them fall within +/- 0.5 seconds which is within the margin of error of my driving ability. Like I said, the only clear outliers are the Aston Martin and the BMW Z4.. those are literally a second or more slower around pretty much every single track.

kapnk066
02-10-2017, 15:35
The GT3 group is really well balanced. There are a few clearly slower cars (BMW Z4 / Aston Martin) but the rest are pretty damn well balanced and in the hands of mediocre drivers (at the moment the vast VAST majority of players online) it's extremely balanced and just depends on your driving style.

Simply suggesting that the 488 GT3 is fastest confirms this.. because it isn't.

Agreed. When I started seeing anecdotal evidence that the Ferarri 488 GT3 was dominating online races I decided to jump into all the GT3 cars (offline) and experience this reported BOP imbalance for myself. I have found that the default "loose" setup for the 488 GT3 is a pig.........i.e, it has terrible understeer at several tracks compared with, say the McLaren 650S. Once I get more seat time in the default 650S I'll report back some laptimes. :yes:

Karl87
02-10-2017, 15:50
I mean I will give the leader boards some time, but as of now the 488 is the fastest on every track I have looked at by a long shot. I have top 3 times with the 911 GT3R which is on the slow side for the GT3 cars and abysmal on stock setup, and when I race online against a 488 unless he wrecks out or is a total garbage driver I lose the race. I don't have this issue against any other car, except the mclaren on the longer tracks but I can deal with that since I can make it up on the shorter tracks. With the 488 not only is it faster than the mclaren on the straights but it outhandles the rest of the GT3 cars as well. Posting a video of that one guy on seca is kind of pointless, leaderboards are as far as I can tell the best way to figure it out.

thepharcyde
02-10-2017, 16:25
....... a) very popular and b) easier to drive. .

This mostly, I raced a MP with a the Porsche and got lapped by both the 488+R8 in a 25 min race around Laguna Seca; the lead 488 had also pitted. I'm not the fastest driver, I would say average and was surprised.

488 for me is the easier of the GT3's, maybe it's tweaked moreso given it's a new model not one that's been carried over?

bomarfield
02-10-2017, 16:57
iRacing recently added 488 GTE and GT3 so some of the fast lap times might be set by guys who run this car every day for more than 3 months (GTE) or few weeks (GT3) already.
Car feel is actually quite similar so not that much learning required. There is little to no chance for casual racers to compete with iRacing aliens in such combo.

crowhop
02-10-2017, 17:08
My GT3 car of choice is the Huracan. Around Long Beach I am about the same with it as I am the 488. Around other tracks I know at I am at a bit of disadvantage, but that is part of the fun in playing Online. Some guys can have the hero car and perform poorly while others are about the same skill as me. Most of the time I have to rely on their mistakes in order to win or make a pass and my margin of error is zero. But I like it that way.

For my league racing where I chose to run the Huracan all season, being ~2.5 seconds slow around Monza is annoying, though. I can only imagine how big that gap will grow when we run Daytona and Le Mans. I'm even a second back at Imola. We'll see how it plays out.

Karl87
02-10-2017, 17:13
Huracan is a good easy and fun car to drive, I like it as well. It is competitive with everything except the 488

crowhop
02-10-2017, 17:17
Huracan is a good easy and fun car to drive, I like it as well. It is competitive with everything except the 488
I pretty much only chose it because this is the one time in life I'll get to drive a Lamborghini. In VR, it seems like I'm in it. Wringing its neck around Long Beach is a blast.

Kebabfelix
05-10-2017, 04:36
So since the sim racing community is crazy about GT3 cars and that's pretty much the only thing you can find in online lobbys.

I've noticed that most GT3 cars in the top 5 are always the Mclaren,Audi,Ferrari. Suprisingly these are also some of my favouirite GT3 cars since they are so balanced and quick.


Then I stumbled on this guys video and he pretty much tested this theory.

https://youtu.be/8n0x_dysg9Y?t=14m52s


I had to try these slow cars and try to make them go fast, even when tuning them to reduce the understeer that's just massive on the Aston. Nothing made them as quick or even close as quick as the top GT3 cars.

I was still around 1-1,5 second off pace on Brands hatch with the slow cars. On Redbull Ring I can be over 2 seconds off pace.

I'm top 8 in the community event and am quick enough to realize that these cars are not really on par at the moment.


Have you guys at SMS gathered any data about this and seen the issue too?

Purg
05-10-2017, 05:12
In the Australian series, the cars are much wider apart in times compared to the list you've shown and the same cars tend to show up at the top of Qualifying every round. Looking at the Blancpain series, much the same.

I don't follow the series that closely but I do enjoy driving GT3 cars.. how close should they be? Just from casual observation, the cars have a wide range of power and weight differences which I would expect differing performance depending on the track type. I'd wager that list would be completely different on another track using the same methodology and the same drive.

It lists the R8 faster than the 488 by ~.5 sec but I'm much faster in the 488 at Bathurst by at least 1 sec.

Kebabfelix
05-10-2017, 05:36
In the Australian series, the cars are much wider apart in times compared to the list you've shown and the same cars tend to show up at the top of Qualifying every round. Looking at the Blancpain series, much the same.

I don't follow the series that closely but I do enjoy driving GT3 cars.. how close should they be? Just from casual observation, the cars have a wide range of power and weight differences which I would expect differing performance depending on the track type. I'd wager that list would be completely different on another track using the same methodology and the same drive.

It lists the R8 faster than the 488 by ~.5 sec but I'm much faster in the 488 at Bathurst by at least 1 sec.

They should for sure be different from track to track and that's nothing wrong with. However the Aston is way off pace on every track i've tried.

Invincible
05-10-2017, 05:49
They should for sure be different from track to track and that's nothing wrong with. However the Aston is way off pace on every track i've tried.

Try a different diff. setup. Take a look in this thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52926-Project-CARS-2-Garage-Car-Setup-Talk&p=1382117#post1382117
With a better differential setup, some have even managed to come down to 0,8 sec off the WR with the old Z4, which was suspected to be on e of the slowest.
I think the Aston GT3 is hindered too.

Kebabfelix
05-10-2017, 06:37
Yeah just tried it, got a 54,9 with the Z4.

56 with the Aston. But weirdly enough the Z4 was faster than the Audi.
Hmm

Rodgerzzz
05-10-2017, 06:38
As the BMW Z4, Mercedes SLS and Aston Martin Vantage V12 are considered last generation GT3 cars I thought it made sense for them to be off the pace. In Blancpain I think there's only one Pro-Am team that still run the Aston because of this.

Bealdor
05-10-2017, 06:53
Threads merged.

Kebabfelix
05-10-2017, 06:57
.. not to mention I seem to be winning most of my GT3 races when I'm in the McLaren 650. I've also thoroughly tested these cars during WMD2, probably hundreds of hours, around Long Beach and most of them fall within +/- 0.5 seconds which is within the margin of error of my driving ability. Like I said, the only clear outliers are the Aston Martin and the BMW Z4.. those are literally a second or more slower around pretty much every single track.

The aston does suck no matter what setup I've tried.

However the Z4 is crazy fast and nimble with the right setup, I got it to be very grippy and no understeer at all now. So fast actually.

blinkngone
05-10-2017, 10:38
Hi Kebabfelix, I have the Aston at 0:55.409 just by increasing preload to 140 from 120. This is quicker than all but 1 of the McLaren 605S GT3s, don't give up, just need to run in the tires for a couple of laps before it really moves.

justonce68
05-10-2017, 11:26
I did some testing of the GT3 Cars, all with default setups around the Spanish GP track, where most F1 teams test, as it has a bit of everthing corner and straight wise, and The Ferrari 488 was 3rd quickest, all the top 8 fastest cars were within 1 second of each other.

blinkngone
05-10-2017, 12:41
Aston Martin Vantage GT3, incremental improvement by changing rear camber(increased). 00:55.257 is faster than the WR for the Porsche 911 GTR at this track.
241929
I posted this picture so you could see that I need to probably work on my springs, sorry, I wasn't careful when editing my setups and a different setup had loaded and I didn't catch it. Still, a good driver could get his car into the high 54's possibly even with these springs. Anyway, this car is already faster than most of the cars at this track including all but 4 of the Ferraris. This car is not almost 2 seconds slower than the Audi LMS, like in the Laguna Secavideo. The default set ups need some work, surely,:D and I'm not saying it is easy but with some work you could make this pig fly.:D

I ran the exact Silverstone National setup at Brands Hatch Indy to a 00:45.798. This was the 1st lap and in my opinion the car is in the mix with most of the rest of the GT3's, the Silverstone National set up just is not going to work everywhere without adjusting and it needs adjusting here. The time bests all but 1 of the 650S's again. The Fords lead the way here followed by the Ferraris. This is not one of my favorite tracks, my computer dislikes the 1st right hander down the hill, stutters quite a bit and likes the esses even less. So, I am not really interested in improving my time here but someone who likes the car could invest some time and do well enough with it.

fuschs
05-10-2017, 22:27
Hi,

I would like to discuss GT3 Class Balance of Performance. It's a hot topic for leagues and championships that use them, as ideally we want all cars to be as closely matched as possible.

The thing is, the Ferrari and the McLaren seem to be quite fast compared to others, as in too fast. For both of these cars, the default setup allows you to set very good laptimes; even though the Ferrari is very understeery, you are noticeably quicker than in other cars. It's a shame because there is a large, evenly matched group of cars, and then we have the 488 and 650S that seem to be in a class of their own.

Now to my point.
Is it possible to be as quick in say "slower" cars than these beasts with (heavy) setup work? Has anyone managed to do that? It takes quite a lot of time, as of now I have tested with a group of people, only at Catalunya, low fuel, so I thought maybe people can share their views or experiences on different tracks and fuel loads to accelerate the process and help identify OP cars.


Thanks

dault3883
05-10-2017, 22:29
even if SMS BOP'd the field the tuners on here would just come up with set ups to make them faster thus overriding the BOP i say wait till the tuners have done some setup stuff first to see if they essentially level the field out

blinkngone
05-10-2017, 22:34
Hi, there are multiple threads on this but quickly with the Aston Martin Vantage GT3 I am ahead of all but 1 McLaren 650S at Brands Hatch Indy and Silverstone National. Some Ferraris too.:cool: So, it kind of depends on which track.

fuschs
06-10-2017, 09:57
even if SMS BOP'd the field the tuners on here would just come up with set ups to make them faster thus overriding the BOP i say wait till the tuners have done some setup stuff first to see if they essentially level the field out

This thread is aimed at getting feedback from the "tuners" :)


Hi, there are multiple threads on this but quickly with the Aston Martin Vantage GT3 I am ahead of all but 1 McLaren 650S at Brands Hatch Indy and Silverstone National. Some Ferraris too.:cool: So, it kind of depends on which track.

I tried using the search function, but ever since I joined this forum, I can't get the hang of it. Apologies if it's redundant!
From my experience so far the Ferrari for instance seems to be strong everywhere.

blinkngone
06-10-2017, 12:12
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52926-Project-CARS-2-Garage-Car-Setup-Talk&p=1368163

"From my experience so far the Ferrari for instance seems to be strong everywhere."

Well Fuschs this is just your experience, at the tracks I go to the Ferraris are just a backmarker car for noobs.

Iconiqk
06-10-2017, 15:19
You'll see a lot of Ferrari's in lower levels of online racing because it's fast right out of the box. The default setup is probably best out of all the GT3 cars, which is why players with little to no tuning knowledge tend to gravitate towards it. You'll also notice this will sometimes give them a false sense of pace, because in longer races you'll see them fall back or crash out as they've overheated and worn their tires prematurely. As you move up, you'll notice the field is a lot more varied, with people racing and tweaking the car that fits their driving style the best. I've even seen some fast lap times in the Aston, which feels awful with the default setup, meaning any of the GT3 cars can be made competitive with the right setup and driver, just as in real life. They all have their weaknesses, it's all about identifying what they are and minimizing them through tuning and driving style. Hope this helps! Just pick a car you either like or are comfortable in and stick with it, seek out tuning advice, and try to adapt your driving style to compliment that car, and you just may surprise yourself.

Edit: Would also like to add that certain cars will have advantages on certain tracks due to engine configuration, gearing, ect. The Mercedes AMG (My personal favorite) has a naturally aspirated, large displacement V8. This configuration is ideal for getting up to speed coming out of slower corners, as it has a large amount of torque, but is effected by ambient air temp and elevation moreso then a turbocharged car.

thomasjohansen
07-10-2017, 16:17
I find the porsche GT3 outperformed in comparison with other GT3, is it that in real life?

for instant, at red bull ring i can easy do 1.32 in a Ferrari 488 with semi default setup, and seen times at 1.29.
In the porsche gt3 with a reasonable setup its hard to reach 1.32.
And in multiplayer races in porsche I get passed on the straits by other brand gt3's even if I have better exits.

Kebabfelix
07-10-2017, 16:27
GT3 class is the most unbalanced class right now, atleast on stock setups.

Stick to the 488,R8,Mclaren and you will be fine. Avoid Aston at all costs.

thomasjohansen
07-10-2017, 18:38
GT3 class is the most unbalanced class right now, atleast on stock setups.

Stick to the 488,R8,Mclaren and you will be fine. Avoid Aston at all costs.

bbbut I like the Porsche ;-)

AbeWoz
07-10-2017, 19:18
some cars are just better out of the box then others. also, you need to drive porsche race cars in a very unique way due to the rear-engine layout. I've been spending most of my GT3 time in the BMW M6 and I am very competitive with other races in ferraris/mclarens/etc. It all comes down to setups and seat time.

Kebabfelix
07-10-2017, 19:28
some cars are just better out of the box then others. also, you need to drive porsche race cars in a very unique way due to the rear-engine layout. I've been spending most of my GT3 time in the BMW M6 and I am very competitive with other races in ferraris/mclarens/etc. It all comes down to setups and seat time.

Yes but that's not how logic works :P. You might just be quick in any car.

Anyways, I still feel a lot has to do with the actual setup. Like I got my Z4 to be really freaking fast with setup, but stock is way off pace compared to the 488 stock.

So it's fun to find a car and make it good.

Civic
07-10-2017, 19:50
There is no way you have got your Z4 competitive with the 488, it is slower stock and still slower tuned. I can improve the 488's times as much as I can improve the Z4's times which is about 2-3 seconds per lap over a regular length lap.

Not to mention the Z4 is on edge with a fast tune but the 488, it's like a Sunday drive in comparison.

I have more experience driving the Z4 than any other car in sims, it is my go to car. It is very familiar here the only thing I'd say about it here vs other sims is it is a little more unforgiving here when fast. But the 488 is in another league. I would never choose to drive a Ferrari in a game where cars are balanced, I'm driving the Ferrari because it is a much better car in this game.

The M6 is much more competitive than the Z4 but even the M6 isn't on the same level as the 488.

And FWIW I'm still running a conservative setup in the 488, my 488 setup is still pushing a little. But the 488 doesn't need to be faster unless there is another 488 to race against. Just remember if you can't even work out how to get close to a 2:05 in the Z4 around Bathurst, I'm still leaving stuff on the table in the 488.

LMR TopSecret
07-10-2017, 23:44
The way I see it. The 488 is the beat all rounder. And because itís so easy to drive you can fiddle with the car more. And do resicilpua stuff with the aero. Just go on TT on pc and look at the tune for the guy on spa. People who are doing these vids and making the cars look equal arenít the fastest of guys. And they prove the data wrong because people who canít push a car to the limit have a specific driving style and arenít as flexible in a general sense to push all cars in their comfort category to the limit of the car, not their own respective pace. The 488 is fast on every track that gt3 cars will drove on, not the fastest on every track, but never slacks. The car excels in every aspect. The 911 and m6 are good. They can do solid times in a race and not just hotlap and they have good racepace. And the Acura has great grip but lacks the race pace not having the speed but can set a good hotlap on some tracks and in a Q during a lobby. I personally think the gtr struggles. Itís so twitchy on power and has so much power oversteer, and mostly a pain to drive but can do decent times. Iím on pad and keep up with the fastest wheel people racing on Xbox. I have my flaws on pad but even the fastest people on Xbox would say the 488 is in another league because it can dominate on every track GT cars would race on.

hkraft300
08-10-2017, 00:36
SMS has a tricky Job to BoP the cars. It's not all about outright qualifying/TT lap times. There's also fuel use, tire use, track types and elevation changes etc to consider.

Also, whoa. Just hold on a minute. The game isn't a month old but you're calling for better BoP? How much time has everyone spent driving and developing a car? I'm still scrolling through checking out new cars to race, hardly spent any time tuning...
Let the TT leaderboards fill out a little. The fast guys I think may be staying off TT to not give their tuning secrets away.

There's a bit of time left on the table from tuning. Let's see how that changes when the next patch drops with updated default setups.

Civic
08-10-2017, 01:54
Yeah I'm fast but not fastest of the fast and even I'm not going to do TT's because of setup sharing. I got up my son for jumping into a TT with elements of my set. The TT trials are not close to indicative of the potential of these cars.

DECATUR PLAYA
08-10-2017, 02:59
SMS has a tricky Job to BoP the cars. It's not all about outright qualifying/TT lap times. There's also fuel use, tire use, track types and elevation changes etc to consider.

Also, whoa. Just hold on a minute. The game isn't a month old but you're calling for better BoP? How much time has everyone spent driving and developing a car? I'm still scrolling through checking out new cars to race, hardly spent any time tuning...
Let the TT leaderboards fill out a little. The fast guys I think may be staying off TT to not give their tuning secrets away.

There's a bit of time left on the table from tuning. Let's see how that changes when the next patch drops with updated default setups.

^Pretty much on the money with this assessment of the GT3 cars.

Just like PCARS 1 no the GT3 cars are not equal out of the box. Depending on driving style and seat time some are better than others. When you get deep into tuning you will find that the cars are very equal as far as being able to turn fast laps at a given track. Some are better at some tracks than others because of that's cars advantages at the track due to elevation change, turns, and so forth. For our group each car has shown itself to be fast it just depends on what your looking for out of the car.

hkraft300
08-10-2017, 03:08
A few months ago I started dabbing into more GT3 races in PC1. My fav turned out to be the Vantage GTE V8. I had the pace and consistency to keep on podiums. Practice and tuning.

PC 2 I'm not enjoying the GT3 cars so much, only because the GTE (and so many other classes) are so much nicer to drive.

DECATUR PLAYA
08-10-2017, 03:34
I really do like all the other cars on the game still haven't driven everything. I think IndyCars at Indy is my favorite so far but GT3 still dominates the online scene and most of my racing is online. Want to make a good room just do GT3 and they come in droves. As much as I like the other stuff the game provides GT3 is still awesome.

LMR TopSecret
08-10-2017, 15:15
Most people are making the point of the 488 being consistently fast on every track and not slacking whether it’s a turbo track or not. And the car has immense race pace. Yh some cars have their tracks. But cars like the R8, lambo and g55 get dogged so hard on speed tracks. Even when taking the aero off and tuning them they don’t gain that time back. Where as a lot of the speed cars with greater high speed and high end acceleration such as the 488 or m6 can become cornering cars adding aero and still keep their straight line pace. Giving them better race pace and good times. The GTR for me lacks. My mate went hard tuning that gtr last night on RBR and got a 29.5 on limit. But that car is such a pain to drive it wouldn’t be worth racing it most of the time. The other cars could get close to that stock, then dip into the 28s half tuned.

rich1e I
08-10-2017, 15:51
Most people are making the point of the 488 being consistently fast on every track and not slacking whether it’s a turbo track or not. And the car has immense race pace. Yh some cars have their tracks. But cars like the R8, lambo and g55 get dogged so hard on speed tracks. Even when taking the aero off and tuning them they don’t gain that time back. Where as a lot of the speed cars with greater high speed and high end acceleration such as the 488 or m6 can become cornering cars adding aero and still keep their straight line pace. Giving them better race pace and good times. The GTR for me lacks. My mate went hard tuning that gtr last night on RBR and got a 29.5 on limit. But that car is such a pain to drive it wouldn’t be worth racing it most of the time. The other cars could get close to that stock, then dip into the 28s half tuned.

Don't forget, these cars you identified as 'weak' are all naturally aspirated. They suffer from decreasing power on tracks in higher altitude such as Bathurst, Red Bull Ring, also Spa, Watkins Glen, NŁrburgring etc. which means up 10% less power. The Lambo for instance only performs with 440 bhp at Red Bull Ring.

NeonFlux
08-10-2017, 16:04
There is no way you have got your Z4 competitive with the 488, it is slower stock and still slower tuned. I can improve the 488's times as much as I can improve the Z4's times which is about 2-3 seconds per lap over a regular length lap.

Not to mention the Z4 is on edge with a fast tune but the 488, it's like a Sunday drive in comparison.

I have more experience driving the Z4 than any other car in sims, it is my go to car. It is very familiar here the only thing I'd say about it here vs other sims is it is a little more unforgiving here when fast. But the 488 is in another league. I would never choose to drive a Ferrari in a game where cars are balanced, I'm driving the Ferrari because it is a much better car in this game.

The M6 is much more competitive than the Z4 but even the M6 isn't on the same level as the 488.

And FWIW I'm still running a conservative setup in the 488, my 488 setup is still pushing a little. But the 488 doesn't need to be faster unless there is another 488 to race against. Just remember if you can't even work out how to get close to a 2:05 in the Z4 around Bathurst, I'm still leaving stuff on the table in the 488.

On algarve I'm 2 seconds a lap quicker in the m6 than i am in the ferrari. I think the ferrari is quicker out of the box but the majority of the other have the potential to be just as quick, if not quicker, with the right set up.

LMR TopSecret
08-10-2017, 16:21
Don't forget, these cars you identified as 'weak' are all naturally aspirated. They suffer from decreasing power on tracks in higher altitude such as Bathurst, Red Bull Ring, also Spa, Watkins Glen, NŁrburgring etc. which means up 10% less power. The Lambo for instance only performs with 440 bhp at Red Bull Ring.

Also though, majority of the speed tracks are high altitude. But the problem is those turbo cars can become grip cars when tuned with downforce for those tracks NA cars are good at. You can turn the m6 into a grip monster for the cornering tracks to keep up with the lambo. What annoys me the most is why the g55 can still have negative downforce. The cars that lose out being NA don’t gain it back as much as they lose on these turbo tracks. So when a series comes out on say Xbox. I wouldn’t be surprised if the clever people go for any car that’s turbocharged so they get the best of both types of tracks, if the track list is mixed.

Civic
08-10-2017, 20:30
On algarve I'm 2 seconds a lap quicker in the m6 than i am in the ferrari. I think the ferrari is quicker out of the box but the majority of the other have the potential to be just as quick, if not quicker, with the right set up.

No the M6 is quick and can still be considered competitive even if the 488 has an advantage. Other cars like the Z4 have no hope at all.

BTW I thought the same as you until I spent just a few minutes tuning the Ferrari and dropped my already fast lap times by 2-3 seconds on the tracks I was testing. The Ferrari has a slow setup out of the box. It can go a lot faster. Something I have found in this game that might not be entirely realistic is how the same tuning tricks work for every GT3 car I have tried them on. Getting your car to rotate on throttle is key to being fast. Of course the opposite is more stable and easier to drive.

Dynomight Motorsports
08-10-2017, 22:29
For Online Racing Leagues...
Actually what is probably needed is the ability of the Online League Director to use Restrictor increases on cars that prove dominant. The biggest problem in my league is One of the Guys (and he's already near Alien Speed) running already knew the capabilities of the 488. Now in testing he's consistently 2-3 seconds faster than me (in the Audi) at every venue. So combination of Good Driver, refined setup, and exclusive seat time in the Ferrari he's naturally going to be very fast. I had to check my times and they are very close to Real World times so I know I'm not that far off, he's just that good in a very good car. Imagine Vettel in a Mercedes..

There is no doubt that some cars are just plain faster than others but there really are too many factors to consider. Each car is suited for different tracks, Each driver style is suited for certain cars, weather and track conditions unless in time trial are never the same. Default tunes in most cases are abysmal. Some cars can be really be adjusted to be fast. But to have honest testing you need to remove as many variables as possible.

AbeWoz
08-10-2017, 22:53
there were multiple requests for server controlled BoP (restrictors/ballast, etc.) or a way to enforce these settings during development but were left out unfortunately. This is the only area were AC has a step up on PC2 IMO.

rich1e I
08-10-2017, 23:08
Also though, majority of the speed tracks are high altitude. But the problem is those turbo cars can become grip cars when tuned with downforce for those tracks NA cars are good at. You can turn the m6 into a grip monster for the cornering tracks to keep up with the lambo. What annoys me the most is why the g55 can still have negative downforce. The cars that lose out being NA don’t gain it back as much as they lose on these turbo tracks. So when a series comes out on say Xbox. I wouldn’t be surprised if the clever people go for any car that’s turbocharged so they get the best of both types of tracks, if the track list is mixed.

Honestly, I wasn't even aware of the fact that altitude would affect engine performance in Project CARS and probably many people wouldn't take this factor into consideration either when making their car choice for a series, but yes, those who know it will definitely go for a turbo charged car.

Owesome
09-10-2017, 08:59
From my view enough time has passed to say that the F488 is superior compared to the others. Just take a look on the official leader board - you wont find one track where the F488 isnt the fastest GT3 car. (with default setup and custom setup).

Beside that the R8, the M6 and the McLaren are kind of on the same level which is great and this is how it should be.
The Acura, the Nissan, the Lambo and the Porsche just need some love but aren't that far off.
The Aston, the Bentley, the Z4 and the SLS and the AMG (:frown-new:) are just a bad pick right now.

NeonFlux
09-10-2017, 09:34
No the M6 is quick and can still be considered competitive even if the 488 has an advantage. Other cars like the Z4 have no hope at all.

BTW I thought the same as you until I spent just a few minutes tuning the Ferrari and dropped my already fast lap times by 2-3 seconds on the tracks I was testing. The Ferrari has a slow setup out of the box. It can go a lot faster. Something I have found in this game that might not be entirely realistic is how the same tuning tricks work for every GT3 car I have tried them on. Getting your car to rotate on throttle is key to being fast. Of course the opposite is more stable and easier to drive.

I still think its too soon to tell. On Road America the fastest TT time at this time is a 2.09.8 with the Ferrari but a friend has had a 2.09.5 with a barely tuned M6.... its just that the time wasn't posted as he'd already set a time with a gt1 car. I agree that the f88 is the dominant car atm but i think that may change over time once ppl have had a chance to settle into the game.

BTW... I'm no expert in this, just a (possibly) uneducated opinion ☺

Boskapongen
09-10-2017, 09:36
I am seeing 1:43īs with F488 on Imola... try that with a AMG GT3....

blinkngone
09-10-2017, 12:31
From my view enough time has passed to say that the F488 is superior compared to the others. Just take a look on the official leader board - you wont find one track where the F488 isnt the fastest GT3 car. (with default setup and custom setup).

Beside that the R8, the M6 and the McLaren are kind of on the same level which is great and this is how it should be.
The Acura, the Nissan, the Lambo and the Porsche just need some love but aren't that far off.
The Aston, the Bentley, the Z4 and the SLS and the AMG (:frown-new:) are just a bad pick right now.

What game are you playing? What board are you looking at?
242283

A3jan
09-10-2017, 12:57
When i got the game. I drove ithe 488 testing and tuning the crap out of it. Never touched the rest of the cars.
Love how it looked and sounded. Then came here and was reading that it was to dominate.
So I started looking into the other cars. But they are horrible to drive out of the (pit)box.
I see why people pick it. You realy have to tune the other gt3 cars just to make them drivable.
I picked the GTR. And had to get google involved to tune it.
Now it's somewhat reasonable to race. Not the fastest but I can match my own 488 times.
Now i have to take some car set up courses. But it wil get there lol.

hkraft300
09-10-2017, 13:18
They're all going to be bloody close in performance.
It'll take a bunch of the fastest guys spending some serious tuning and practice to properly differentiate the cars in the class.
Some of need to wrap our heads around the damping and differentials yet :rolleyes:

Scott Coffey
09-10-2017, 14:31
I have been in over 60 online MP races so far. I can confirm that the Ferrari leaves everyone in the dust on the straights. It could surely be down to setup, but I can assure you that there isn't a setup change available for the Audi GT3 that prevents the Ferrari from pulling away *strongly* on the straights. Even with zero downforce, closed radiator and brake ducts, the Audi GT3 doesn't stand a chance with a tuned Ferrari.

I know it's not universally true that the Ferrari is faster on the straights, because I've raced against some where the Audi seems more competitive, but there is *some* setup change available on the Ferrari that makes it way too fast on the straights. It's disappointing to go toe-to-toe all over Bathurst, and then have the Ferrari pick up a full two seconds on the straights. Not fun. :(

Scott Coffey
09-10-2017, 14:33
[deleted]

Scott Coffey
09-10-2017, 14:36
What game are you playing? What board are you looking at?
242283

That really isn't representative of anything. It's probably a tiny fraction of people who have even run a time trial at any given track. I regularly see people beating the fastest time trial numbers in MP races.

Owesome
09-10-2017, 14:38
What game are you playing? What board are you looking at?
242283
I cant post any clean links (too less posts yet)

Put h t t p :// before and it should work combined with the line below. (without the spaces)
cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3348999902&vehicle=1934199723

Anthroban
09-10-2017, 14:38
I'm easily a second or two faster in race conditions than in time trial conditions. They're not ideal.

hkraft300
09-10-2017, 14:44
I know it's not universally true that the Ferrari is faster on the straights, because I've raced against some where the Audi seems more competitive, but there is *some* setup change available on the Ferrari that makes it way too fast on the straights. It's disappointing to go toe-to-toe all over Bathurst, and then have the Ferrari pick up a full two seconds on the straights. Not fun. :(

Audi is NA, Ferrari is turbo.
The Audi is at a disadvantage at Bathurst because of its elevation.

Scott Coffey
09-10-2017, 17:36
Audi is NA, Ferrari is turbo.
The Audi is at a disadvantage at Bathurst because of its elevation.

OK, that makes sense.... at Bathurst. :)

Was PCARS changed to make the effect of turbo more pronounced? Because I never saw this big disparity in PCARS1.

AbeWoz
09-10-2017, 17:48
it was there in pCARS1, but remember that the 488 is one of the newest GT3's on the market, so it may have the most up-to-date data/setup information. And with the updates the to game in general, the turbo advantage at high altitude tracks might be more definitive.

IRL series test and BoP the cars pretty intensively before the season so they can have the most balance at all tracks.

Scott Coffey
09-10-2017, 17:52
Per-track BOP sounds like a great idea. It's a shame to have one car so dominant at certain tracks.

TexasTyme214
09-10-2017, 18:03
I wonder if SMS can do a boost ratio limit with the outside air pressure for the upper elevation tracks instead of absolute pressure. If a car has 2 bar of boost at 1 ATM, then let it make 90% (1.8 bar) of that power when there is a 10% drop of air pressure. In the game and PCars 1, IIRC, the turbo cars always have the same peak power (same boost pressure limit) but turbo lag increases with altitude. It could be balanced if the boost limit goes up and down proportionally like the NA cars.

DreamsKnight
09-10-2017, 18:11
IRL i see cars take advantage of the circuit each time. What are you speaking about?
Ok for some gt3 balance if necessary, but doesn't mean all the cars must do the same time.

DreamsKnight
09-10-2017, 19:04
i haven't check each one, but at the moment all gt3 cars i have seen have 90liter of fuel, ferrari 50liter. standard setup i mean.

sbtm
09-10-2017, 19:15
The GT3 cars are bopped like in Pirelli World Challenge (PWC) which is a pcars2 partner.

I don't think the 488 is generally the fastest out there. On red bull ring I happen to catch them easily on the straight (after second corner) with a Huracan for example. I think the cars are very well balanced.

We should keep in mind that the corner exit has massive impact on the speed on the straight.

Having a good setup, a good race line, good corner entry/apex/exit is just so crucial in reality (and in pcars2) that you one's slow R8 can be another one's fast R8 and vice versa.

And it was already mentioned here that many people use the 488 and it's more likely to see them on the podium then.

AbeWoz
09-10-2017, 19:25
The GT3 cars are bopped like in Pirelli World Challenge (PWC) which is a pcars2 partner.

I don't think the 488 is generally the fastest out there. On red bull ring I happen to catch them easily on the straight (after second corner) with a Huracan for example. I think the cars are very well balanced.

We should keep in mind that the corner exit has massive impact on the speed on the straight.

Having a good setup, a good race line, good corner entry/apex/exit is just so crucial in reality (and in pcars2) that you one's slow R8 can be another one's fast R8 and vice versa.

And it was already mentioned here that many people use the 488 and it's more likely to see them on the podium then.

PWC uses the SRO BoP sytstem (Blancpain Series) and they have variable BoP for different tracks.

sbtm
09-10-2017, 19:39
PWC uses the SRO BoP sytstem (Blancpain Series) and they have variable BoP for different tracks.

but it's not track specific. It's only specific to "4 groups of tracks".

AbeWoz
09-10-2017, 19:46
but it's not track specific. It's only specific to "4 groups of tracks".

Correct.

Here is the BoP for 'D' tracks (from 2016). Brands Hatch and Nurburgring Sprint. I'm trying to find the updated ones for all track groups but my searches so far have been fruitless.
https://www.blancpain-gt-series.com/images/noticedocuments/BALANCE%20OF%20PERFORMANCE.pdf

Civic
09-10-2017, 22:15
I think the mistake people are making is assuming anyone think it is the 488 vs the rest. The 488 is the best and a good example but it's not like all the other GT3 cars are the same. There is a spread and that's why I'd say compare the Z4 vs the 488 because the 488 is at the top while the Z4 is near the bottom. Yes some cars can still be competitive with the 488 at times but just remember the 488 is quick out of the box and the same tuning tricks also work on it.

Using the real life BoP isn't really optimal because it depends on everything else being exactly accurate to real life and while this is a great sim it is laughable to think it is exactly like real life, it really isn't. None of the games we play are.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 10:17
I cant post any clean links (too less posts yet)

Put h t t p :// before and it should work combined with the line below. (without the spaces)
cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3348999902&vehicle=1934199723

Thanks Owesome, it's the exactly the same data but I like it because you can just look quickly at the overall(Class) or vehicle without having to arrow over repeatedly(it shows 100 instead of just 10) especially once things start to fill in with more participation.

AbeWoz
10-10-2017, 10:53
I think the mistake people are making is assuming anyone think it is the 488 vs the rest. The 488 is the best and a good example but it's not like all the other GT3 cars are the same. There is a spread and that's why I'd say compare the Z4 vs the 488 because the 488 is at the top while the Z4 is near the bottom. Yes some cars can still be competitive with the 488 at times but just remember the 488 is quick out of the box and the same tuning tricks also work on it.

Using the real life BoP isn't really optimal because it depends on everything else being exactly accurate to real life and while this is a great sim it is laughable to think it is exactly like real life, it really isn't. None of the games we play are.

you are correct, but using real life data (BoP) can at least give you an a starting point. And its impossible to have all the car perfectly balanced on every track, but at least seeing how the SRO does what they do can give some good insight.

Paradyski
10-10-2017, 11:03
Same, in PC1 I was able to do 2;16 in Z4,( some drivers were able to do 2:12 "Khaki". PC2 is so much different, I've seen some aliens doing 2;17but 2:20 seems to be hard to achieve

Bealdor
10-10-2017, 11:05
Same, in PC1 I was able to do 2;16 in Z4,( some drivers were able to do 2:12 "Khaki". PC2 is so much different, I've seen some aliens doing 2;17but 2:20 seems to be hard to achieve

That's simply because in PCARS 1 the GT3 cars had better (read: better than RL) tires.

RomKnight
10-10-2017, 11:10
Talking about pC1 lap times is futile. People should stop comparing just because we all know they're were just too fast.

Better physics, better tyres in pC2 are much more realistic. Period.

Olijke Poffer
10-10-2017, 11:13
Yeah the Z4 is a lot harder to controll in PC2 than in PC1 indeed..

LMR TopSecret
10-10-2017, 14:13
The 488 is great, but its mostly turbo cars in general, 650s, 488 and M6 especially on every track can perform. Majority of the High altitude tracks are speed tracks, giving those turbo cars even more of a laptime difference when majority of the tracks have high end straights over the weakened N/A cars. but when you come back to low altitude, the N/A cars only come back up to pace of the Turbo monsters, its not like they become 1-2s quicker on low altitude tracks like the turbo cars gain on them. this is just how it works, but they need to boost N/A cars or weaken and BOP the turbo cars on high altitude tracks to balance it on an overall basis. a lot of the N/A cars are generally more handling cars,yh the 488 even on low altitude still pulls on acceleration over say the R8, but the R8s superior grip balances them on some tracks for laptimes. Imola for e.g the audi can do a 42, but then so can the old SLS on that track.

Scott Coffey
12-10-2017, 15:54
I really like the Audi, but unless something changes with the dominance of the Ferrari then I reckon I'll have to switch over.

I just finished a test at Watkins Glen. It's not a high altitude track so the turbo shouldn't make much of a difference. With my custom setup (or the default "loose" setup), I top out at about 153/154 before braking for the bus stop, and that's flat-out with no lift after T1. With the Ferrari using the loose setup, I easily reach 157 and that's with taking a crappy line with a necessary lift in the uphill sweeper. I'm sure someone familiar with the car could top out even faster. And this same story is repeated track after track.

Unless something is done to rein in this beast, then we'll be looking at lobbies filled with red cars. :(

Aldo Zampatti
12-10-2017, 16:01
I really like the Audi, but unless something changes with the dominance of the Ferrari then I reckon I'll have to switch over.


I believe they will all receive a BoP pass again. Not sure if current patch has that one though.

RomKnight
12-10-2017, 16:19
But but.. there are cars (way) faster than the rest (like the Nissan GT3)... then again it kind of looses on anything not straight (that's RL Blancpain as per this year).


Ferraris though were not the fastest (if not the slowest) this year though. But they just handle it seems like nothing else, hence the bronze/amateur driver's car by default.

Point is, how about laptimes? Is the car simply faster on every track? Faster tracks with benefit top end speed whilst more technical tracks will benefit handling.

If the Ferrari simply dominates, like RL BoP should be revised ofc other than that I see no point in it.

Karl87
12-10-2017, 17:28
But but.. there are cars (way) faster than the rest (like the Nissan GT3)... then again it kind of looses on anything not straight (that's RL Blancpain as per this year).


Ferraris though were not the fastest (if not the slowest) this year though. But they just handle it seems like nothing else, hence the bronze/amateur driver's car by default.

Point is, how about laptimes? Is the car simply faster on every track? Faster tracks with benefit top end speed whilst more technical tracks will benefit handling.

If the Ferrari simply dominates, like RL BoP should be revised ofc other than that I see no point in it.

It completely dominates, on every track. All you have to do is look at leader-boards or just play a few GT3 MP races. I have been working on the 911 since day one, I have improved it quite a bit, but there is no competing with the 488, no chance unless they are total piss poor drivers. It's not an elevation issue, its the fact that they can brake, handle, and out accelerate everything (other than the merc). In fact, I have 3 top times on the leader board with the 911 GT3 after probably 30-40 hours in it, I have spent maybe a total of 2 hours with the 488 and can easily shatter my 911 times.

diegonomade
14-10-2017, 06:49
if SMS does not repair the ferrari, in our league we will probably ban the ferrari, it is a shame as it is a spectacular car but it is too OP compared to the rest of the vehicles :upset:

justonce68
14-10-2017, 09:20
I did a Similar tests in Spain on GP track, and 488, came out third after Lambo and Audi, M6, Mclaren & Bentley were very close behind. All were on default set-ups. The Ferrari is beatable on many tracks. it appears to win everything in Multi player as everyone seems to drive it.

skipptg
14-10-2017, 10:10
My biggest grip with the 488 GT3 car is the shift lights appear to be waaaaay past where it's made peak power.

Kebabfelix
14-10-2017, 13:55
Honestly setups make so big of a difference. I made a Porsche run 2 seconds faster, faster than the Ferrari at the end. Same with other cars + track dependent.

Doctor_Tofu
14-10-2017, 16:26
I agree with the Ferrari being scary fast. I’m not great with setups. So I try just use what I find on the forums for my cars. I adore the Audi, and am generally pretty competitive with it. Mostly top 5 runnings. But I feel when there is someone who can tune the Ferrari well, it destroys everything else. Especially under braking. Maybe there’s an exploit or something, but under hard breaking, there’s absolutely nothing I can do

Kebabfelix
14-10-2017, 16:56
I agree with the Ferrari being scary fast. I’m not great with setups. So I try just use what I find on the forums for my cars. I adore the Audi, and am generally pretty competitive with it. Mostly top 5 runnings. But I feel when there is someone who can tune the Ferrari well, it destroys everything else. Especially under braking. Maybe there’s an exploit or something, but under hard breaking, there’s absolutely nothing I can do

I feel like the Ferrari has such a great default setup, some other cars are just awful and understeery like hell. With some tweaking I manage to make the Z4,Lambo,Porsche as quick if not quicker than Ferrari.

ahf74
14-10-2017, 17:20
I keep insisting on race Ferrari is far superior to other cars, without touching the setup and we have checked in our league, people who use the Ferrari for the first time and in two or three laps do the same times as the fastest.
Surely with other cars you can match the times of the Ferrari, the problem is that you have to spend hours tuning the setup which with Ferrari that does not happen.
As they said in a previous commentary we are banning the use of Ferrari in our league because of the great difference with other cars.

ahf74
14-10-2017, 17:21
It completely dominates, on every track. All you have to do is look at leader-boards or just play a few GT3 MP races. I have been working on the 911 since day one, I have improved it quite a bit, but there is no competing with the 488, no chance unless they are total piss poor drivers. It's not an elevation issue, its the fact that they can brake, handle, and out accelerate everything (other than the merc). In fact, I have 3 top times on the leader board with the 911 GT3 after probably 30-40 hours in it, I have spent maybe a total of 2 hours with the 488 and can easily shatter my 911 times.

I totally agree.

Leynad
14-10-2017, 20:54
This "problem" reminds me of the dominance of the 488 GT3 in AC for months after release of this car. Kunos fixed this very late with tyremodel 10 and before it was always the winner-car. I wouldn't be surprised if this dominance is part of the licensing-deal:p

But too many dominant cars in probably all classes. I was winning a 7 lap race at Donington GP online with over 20 sec. advance in the BAC Mono in front of another BAC mono. I was overtaking the Porsches like they were bicycles in the qualifying and overlapping two. The Nissan GTP is even far more dominant in the Group C and drives like on rails. In Group A you want to take the Ford if the track has some serious straights, but certainly not the Merc or BMW. In Road A the Radical should be superior on most tracks. So i would like a function to abandon some cars. What's with the GTE-class by the way?

thomasjohansen
14-10-2017, 21:23
im making multiplayer porsche cup gt3r races instead, just to avoid the ferrari.

its so much more fun when the cars are evenly.

DECATUR PLAYA
14-10-2017, 22:59
Just wondering if most of the guys posting here are tuners. At certain tracks I see the Ferrari get it's doors blown off nightly. I haven't seen this total domination from the Ferrari that everyone is talking about.

It accelerates very well and in this early phase of the game acceleration is king. At tracks where it has to turn to win it struggles.

CruisingUSA
14-10-2017, 23:12
Just wondering if most of the guys posting here are tuners. At certain tracks I see the Ferrari get it's doors blown off nightly. I haven't seen this total domination from the Ferrari that everyone is talking about.

It accelerates very well and in this early phase of the game acceleration is king. At tracks where it has to turn to win it struggles.

I can attest to this, I don't think the Ferrari is fast, I've been test driving the vehicles in PCars around Nords etc and my experience was that the McLaren was the fastest. I think it's down to driving style and tune. If you force default setups the Ferrari isn't that much different and in my opinion is harder to drive / slower than the McLaren, but it's very easy to tune that car and it responds well to tuning.

Personally, I think there are more exploits, time to be gained by tuning correctly than any car being quicker than another.

In league races many run default setups or the same car (assetto corsa F1 league vehicles are usually the same with different skins) for this exact reason.

Users either need to learn to tune the car they are in, or use default setups. It's pretty much that simple.

Karl87
15-10-2017, 00:10
So for those who say the Ferrari is not the fastest, can you show me one track where the top GT3 car on leader-board is not the Ferrari? Even one with a 911 within a second of the 488 would suffice.

CruisingUSA
15-10-2017, 00:39
So for those who say the Ferrari is not the fastest, can you show me one track where the top GT3 car on leader-board is not the Ferrari? Even one with a 911 within a second of the 488 would suffice.

That's not what was said, its fast if you tune it specifically to a particular track as it does tune well, much easier to tune that other vehicles in the class. It takes kindly to tunes. It's also popular and has a lot of tuners and tunes available.

In its default setup (force default tune) its very similar to the others. With a good tune it's fast, and as it's a new, named vehicle it's very popular and has a lot of great tunes available. But with a great tune other cars can indeed beat it! You either need to tube, or force default setups.

Doug914
15-10-2017, 00:56
I believe they will all receive a BoP pass again. Not sure if current patch has that one though.

Yes, Jussi and I went through them and tried to be as fair and balanced as possible. The Ferrari should no longer be the clear winner. I'm currently driving the porsche mostly. We also did the GT4 cars trying to be as fair and balanced there too. Again, the Cayman should no longer be the clear choice in that class. You'll this in the next patch.

3800racingfool
15-10-2017, 01:41
Yes, Jussi and I went through them and tried to be as fair and balanced as possible. The Ferrari should no longer be the clear winner. I'm currently driving the porsche mostly. We also did the GT4 cars trying to be as fair and balanced there too. Again, the Cayman should no longer be the clear choice in that class. You'll this in the next patch.

Great to hear, haven't done too much GT3 but I've driven a lot of GT4 and the Cayman by far was the preferred option (the Aston was ok too but unless you were perfect the Cayman still won out).


As an aside, might I suggest looking at the Group C cars as well. The GTP ZX-Turbo seems to kinda be the Ferrari GT3 of that group (about 2 seconds quicker around every style of track compared to the rest of the class).

bmanic
15-10-2017, 03:23
I did a Similar tests in Spain on GP track, and 488, came out third after Lambo and Audi, M6, Mclaren & Bentley were very close behind. All were on default set-ups. The Ferrari is beatable on many tracks. it appears to win everything in Multi player as everyone seems to drive it.

Exactly. Very few people seem to be able to create their own car setups so they just use default.. which means some end up using cars with 90 liters of fuel while others have less, like the Ferrari 488. I don't think the Ferrari is the fastest (and now that there's going to be a BoP change it's definitely not going to be.. sigh.. the persuasion of the public has hit again). It's in the top few but definitely not THE fastest (I'd say that crown goes to the Audi).

Rikirk
15-10-2017, 05:09
I agree with the last post. Just check the TT leaderboard for Daytona already and you'll see the Audi and Mercedes well ahead. It's all about tuning the car properly to fit the driving. BOP would make sense if based on real data and not by popular vote. Let's keep it real and in the developers' hands.

Kebabfelix
15-10-2017, 07:42
So for those who say the Ferrari is not the fastest, can you show me one track where the top GT3 car on leader-board is not the Ferrari? Even one with a 911 within a second of the 488 would suffice.

Hmm think I'm going to set some WR for you. Any track/car you want me to do it with?

Kebabfelix
15-10-2017, 09:07
Tried some cars at Brands hatch.

1.25.5 Renault. WR
1.25.2 BMW 2nd place
1.24.4 Ferrari

Ughh guess I have to start agreeing with you guys.

The Ferrari is so easy to go fast in, so stable under any bumps and road surface.

I just did 3 laps with each car so all of them can go 0.5-0.8 seconds faster if I tune them more.

Blaine Jr
15-10-2017, 10:03
Hmm think I'm going to set some WR for you. Any track/car you want me to do it with?
Go try and get in the 42's at Imola with well, anything. Also, look at the Nurburgring times for the GT3 cars - I have multiple top times with many cars, yet the 488 is like 8 seconds quicker than the next. I'm not saying I'm the fastest, nor am I running perfect laps around the Green Hell, but I'm quite consistent. I'm put the most time in the AMG GT3 and McLaren 650s and put up some solid times, also did well in the R8. Hell, you'll see my times in these 3 cars are like 2 seconds apart, maybe less. However I just popped in the 488 and took 5-6 seconds off my times without hardly touching anything in a matter of 3-4 laps. If I spent the time on the 488 as I have the 650s, I can't imagine how fast it'd be. Hell the 488 GT3 is out lapping GTE cars - that tells you all you need to know really.

The 488 GT3 is clearly the winner in the GT3 class and I fear the people saying otherwise are inconsistent drivers or simply aren't being honest with themselves due to their love of Ferrari. If you're a fast and consistent driver go drive the Porsche, the AMG, and the 488 and report back. I promise you will be faster in the 488 with or without heavy setup changes. When you dial that thing in it's off the charts fast, as evidenced by a 8-10 second lead around the Ring and even outlapping GTE cars.

You can't tell me all the aliens just happened to pick the 488 GT3 and that's why it's so dominant, it doesn't work that way. If the cars were truly equal we'd see some competition somewhere, but it's just not the case here. Hell the other day I got a run out of Parabolica at Monza on a 488, barely pulled on him in the draft down the straight, but as soon as I ducked out around the start finish line, with a run and draft, he started pulling me again. I was in the 650s... I think I saved the replay of this as well.

gandy
15-10-2017, 10:06
Tried some cars at Brands hatch.
1.24.4 Ferrari
.

That time is on par with the real 488 GT3 at Brands hatch from the 2017 Blancpain Sprint Cup Round 2 of qualifying which was 1:24.150 and in round 3 of qualifying they pulled a 1:23.818.

Qualifying race and main race if you want to see how stable the GT3 cars look at Brands Hatch in the sprint race that took place on the 7th may this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLYf0WhrX20

Also if you want to get some real world times to compare from the Blancpain series look here
https://www.blancpain-gt-series.com/standings

Doug914
15-10-2017, 10:19
Great to hear, haven't done too much GT3 but I've driven a lot of GT4 and the Cayman by far was the preferred option (the Aston was ok too but unless you were perfect the Cayman still won out).


As an aside, might I suggest looking at the Group C cars as well. The GTP ZX-Turbo seems to kinda be the Ferrari GT3 of that group (about 2 seconds quicker around every style of track compared to the rest of the class).

It shouldn't even be in that class, but there was no place else to put it. It's really an IMSA GTP car that allowed more performance than the European Group C cars of the day. We should have included more IMSA cars, but even in that series it was a killer. It even threatened the series because no one could compete with it till the AAR Toyotas came along. Then they all but killed it

LMR TopSecret
15-10-2017, 10:41
The biggest problem is, you go to a low altitude track and you drive the Audi, it’s probably going to be the fastest. Baring in mind all the cars are stock. But when tuned the 488 catches up as the car understeers a lot when stock you can run rediculous aero setups such as 2/4 to get nice oversteer but controllable. The R8 on the other hand is very well tuned stock and doesn’t have much more push in it on tracks like hockenheim or imola, it will do low 38s stock at hockenheim and 42s on a push at imola but not much more being in it. And the 488 can keep up when tuned, but these are all low altitude tracks. Then come the high tracks and all those cars such as the R8 become irrelevant because of the power loss over turbo cars. And the 488 then becomes the dominant turbo track car. The McLaren and m6 can keep up on some tracks. But the 488 just dominates on both high and low, I think it needs an acceleration nerf just to balance it out. Not a massive one, but one that will take a few tenths off some tracks to help even the playing field. And they need to have a permanent BOP for all turbo cars on high altitude tracks so the N/A cars aren’t 1-2 potentially more seconds off the pace on some tracks where that power is needed.

binarywarrior
15-10-2017, 11:11
Great news on BoP for both GT3 and GT4, faith that game will be all it can be is being restored for me and hats off for response times of reacting to this stuff. Yes we may not have the patches yet but is great to know this stuff has been dealt with. Every real driver who refused to use the Ferrari competitively up until this point, I thank you for the good racing and hope you are rewarded well by your chosen chariot after next patch :).

I also felt that the Ferrari times were not too fast more like, the rest were too slow, especially the Bentley it is currently a disgrace to it's real world counterpart. Also is not the acceleration or top speed of Ferrari as I am sure Jussi can confirm, the M6 will happily out do it in both these respects. Where the Ferrari shines is in it's ability to make a very average driver seem like a star due to it's ridiculous turning abilities, I watch so many streams (every streamer is Tifosi) where there's no real skill or finesse in steering... it is basically just turn hard as you can and stick at steering angle that would make my M6 go straight into the wall :D.

There is still one glaring issue before I begin to get serious about Pcars 2, well in regards to either esport or leagues etc and that is the setup bug (which people think is always cured by loading setup again, is not). For me the entire sim is broken although I am still enjoying it as a "game", if I take it seriously currently it makes me only angry.

I felt like the damage bug and the setup bug should have been top priority, as these were game breaking bugs, the damage did get that priority hopefully the setup thing is now top of the list or was and just took a bit longer to fix?

The reasons are as follows:

1. I cannot trust my car there's no consistency I have no idea how my car will behave when I enter the race.

2. A cars strength maybe either Acceleration based or top speed based, if my ratios are not correct that strength is no more. Plus I cannot corner correctly in the wrong ratio.

3. I have not tested all the cars and their ratio bugs but, surely some cars will gain strengths due to longer or shorter ratios.

4. Therefore the BoP will be a little void if this bug is not crushed first, hopefully someone can fill us in on the status of this bug and next patch?

A couple of other issues connected to this subject are, the race ready screen. I see no need to have the option to remove this screen before a race (which many people unaware remove), because firstly it makes the bug 100% going to happen to some people. Secondly whist trying to fix said bug by loading setups over and over you get kicked from the lobby, and we all seen the license threads nuff said there.

A couple of solutions seem to be make the race ready screen permanent feature, remove the ability to kick during that period and shorten the length of time to do setup. Also more detail in the telemetary screen would help identify if you have the setup you selected, just a couple of extra things like ratio and maybe wings would help us identify any future issues here.

Lastly and slightly off topic is a tyre pressure chart range for all compounds, currently we are shooting in the dark, as whilst I can find info online it is not specific enough to make decisive decisions about the ranges of pressure I am looking for. The hud info for tyre temp colour coded stuff is not really clear to me either. Now I have 200hrs in Pcars 2 and more a ridiculous amount in Pcars 1 if I am struggling I am guessing all the new fans you won over with this iteration must be becoming quite frustrated by now :)

Hoping things go smoothly as possible for you guys improving the game and I for one cannot wait to get the patch where these things are right and will be joining as many leagues as is possible for one man to run in.

Rodgerzzz
15-10-2017, 11:15
This a great discussion to have. It's a shame it's not extending to all the GT3 cars rather than only the 488 to hopefully recreate a really robust BOP. Real life BOP constantly changes on a round by round basis in some series as teams figure out setup tricks with each of the different cars that gives them a small advantage. Not saying that PC2 needs to go to that extent but an evolution or two of the BOP across the whole GT3 category would be seriously impressive and keep people interested in all the fantastic GT3 machinery available.

bmanic
15-10-2017, 14:18
This is why the admin of the server should have access to Air Restrictors and an additional counter weight for BoP. Then the player base itself could slowly but surely find a good BoP for each car.

However, this may get messy and people will most likely abuse this system (never underestimate the power abuse of admins :-) ).

Silraed
15-10-2017, 14:43
(never underestimate the power abuse of admins :-) ).

As somebody who has spent a fair few hours playing Battlefield games on 3rd party/rented servers I can attest to this. Power does strange things to some people.

Owesome
16-10-2017, 12:45
Hmm think I'm going to set some WR for you. Any track/car you want me to do it with?

Hockenheim GP F488 vs. AMG
Current WR with the F488: 1:38.318
Current WR with the AMG: 1:40.695

I would be so darn happy when I'm wrong with my thought that the F488 is superior.

ahf74
16-10-2017, 12:59
So Doug914 can we say that SMS is working on a patch to better balance the GT3 category?

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 13:05
So Doug914 can we say that SMS is working on a patch to better balance the GT3 category?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53613-GT3-car-balancing&p=1397124&viewfull=1#post1397124

ahf74
16-10-2017, 13:07
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53613-GT3-car-balancing&p=1397124&viewfull=1#post1397124

Of course I read it but since I have to use a translator, it wasn't clear to me if they were working on it.

ATSS
16-10-2017, 13:27
Thats great news.

Kebabfelix
16-10-2017, 13:37
Wow they actually nerfing the Ferrari? Damn, great we went from "Oh it's not OP at all" to "Nerfed".

NICE

AbeWoz
16-10-2017, 13:39
Wow they actually nerfing the Ferrari? Damn, great we went from "Oh it's not OP at all" to "Nerfed".

NICE

don't see where they are saying they are nerfing the 488. Dougs post states that it will no longer be the 'clear winner.' The rest of the field may be getting a boost since a lot of the 488 times are close to real world lap times.

Doug914
16-10-2017, 13:57
The biggest problem is, you go to a low altitude track and you drive the Audi, itís probably going to be the fastest. Baring in mind all the cars are stock. But when tuned the 488 catches up as the car understeers a lot when stock you can run rediculous aero setups such as 2/4 to get nice oversteer but controllable. The R8 on the other hand is very well tuned stock and doesnít have much more push in it on tracks like hockenheim or imola, it will do low 38s stock at hockenheim and 42s on a push at imola but not much more being in it. And the 488 can keep up when tuned, but these are all low altitude tracks. Then come the high tracks and all those cars such as the R8 become irrelevant because of the power loss over turbo cars. And the 488 then becomes the dominant turbo track car. The McLaren and m6 can keep up on some tracks. But the 488 just dominates on both high and low, I think it needs an acceleration nerf just to balance it out. Not a massive one, but one that will take a few tenths off some tracks to help even the playing field. And they need to have a permanent BOP for all turbo cars on high altitude tracks so the N/A cars arenít 1-2 potentially more seconds off the pace on some tracks where that power is needed.

Yes we are stuck with the altitude problem from track to track. The real GT3/IMSA/PWC series BoP cars from track to track for this. We are victims of our own desire for detail ;)
It's something we have been discussing, but we have bigger fish to fry ATM.

Iconiqk
16-10-2017, 14:14
I don't think the 488's outright speed is as much of an issue as the fact that the default setups for it are REALLY good, very balanced and loads of grip. Whether this was unintentional or if it was just tweaked really well, I think it outshines the rest of the GT3 cars by a wide margin, which caters to its driveability.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 14:37
Hmm think I'm going to set some WR for you. Any track/car you want me to do it with?

Do it with the 911 at Silverstone National. I mean break the Ferrari WR with the 911. I'm already within a second of it with the 911.;) Piece of cake for you.

Kebabfelix
16-10-2017, 14:42
don't see where they are saying they are nerfing the 488. Dougs post states that it will no longer be the 'clear winner.' The rest of the field may be getting a boost since a lot of the 488 times are close to real world lap times.

Yeah call it what you want, point is they are making a very sought after balance change, I like that.


I don't think the 488's outright speed is as much of an issue as the fact that the default setups for it are REALLY good, very balanced and loads of grip. Whether this was unintentional or if it was just tweaked really well, I think it outshines the rest of the GT3 cars by a wide margin, which caters to its driveability.

While it's a very good stock setup compared to most understeery GT3 cars it's still a lot quicker, about 0,5-1 second on Brands hatch even after tweaking the other GT3 cars.

With my tests most GT3 cars are pretty bang on the same times.

I really hope Doug takes a look at the Aston because that car is just so slow compared to any other GT3 out there, even tweaking it.

Iconiqk
16-10-2017, 14:51
I agree the Aston is something of an abomination, which is really sad as I love the car. I've managed to tune out the understeer to an extent but it's still not competitive at all. Granted, it is an older GT3 car but even the Z4 and SLS outshine it, and they are also a few years old.

Owesome
16-10-2017, 14:57
I don't think the 488's outright speed is as much of an issue as the fact that the default setups for it are REALLY good, very balanced and loads of grip. Whether this was unintentional or if it was just tweaked really well, I think it outshines the rest of the GT3 cars by a wide margin, which caters to its driveability.

This would mean that other cars are able to beat the F488 times on the leaderboard. (usually p1-10th per car are using a custom setup)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find any GP track where the F488 isn't the fastest from all Gt3 cars.

Kebabfelix
16-10-2017, 15:33
I agree the Aston is something of an abomination, which is really sad as I love the car. I've managed to tune out the understeer to an extent but it's still not competitive at all. Granted, it is an older GT3 car but even the Z4 and SLS outshine it, and they are also a few years old.

You know I actually heard from Kunos(I think it was) that Ferrari usually gives "Optimistic" data with their cars ie they make them faster than on paper.

That might explain why it's the fastest of the bunch ;)

Boskapongen
16-10-2017, 15:40
You know I actually heard from Kunos(I think it was) that Ferrari usually gives "Optimistic" data with their cars ie they make them faster than on paper.

That might explain why it's the fastest of the bunch ;)

Funny, coz the 488GT3 was OP in iRacing too when they released it this summer. They had to nerf that one aswell...lol

Kebabfelix
16-10-2017, 15:52
Funny, coz the 488GT3 was OP in iRacing too when they released it this summer. They had to nerf that one aswell...lol

The plot thickens.. :devilish:

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 16:02
don't see where they are saying they are nerfing the 488. Dougs post states that it will no longer be the 'clear winner.' The rest of the field may be getting a boost since a lot of the 488 times are close to real world lap times.

Yes, the Ferrari doesn't need anything, the other cars need improvements otherwise the Leaderboards would need a reset.

LMR TopSecret
16-10-2017, 16:39
Hockenheim GP F488 vs. AMG
Current WR with the F488: 1:38.318
Current WR with the AMG: 1:40.695

I would be so darn happy when I'm wrong with my thought that the F488 is superior.


Those time are pretty sucky, Iíve done tuning, my friend on Xbox did a low 38 in the Audi on the wheel, and not too far off time with the 488 but wasnít tuned. Iím on pad and did a 38.7 in a lobby with the AMG

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 17:11
Those time are pretty sucky, I’ve done tuning, my friend on Xbox did a low 38 in the Audi on the wheel, and not too far off time with the 488 but wasn’t tuned. I’m on pad and did a 38.7 in a lobby with the AMG

Yep, kind of sucky times. TT is different than online and custom races where the Ferraris are having an advantage. Aren't console times generally quicker than PC? There is already a Huracan 1:38.692 within tenths of the Ferrari posted by a club racer on PC. The Ferrari time will no doubt improve over time as well, as will the other cars. The differences between the Ferraris and the rest are more stark at other TT tracks such as the Red Bull Ring where the Ferraris have a 2 to 3 second advantage...

LMR TopSecret
16-10-2017, 19:00
Yep, kind of sucky times. TT is different than online and custom races where the Ferraris are having an advantage. Aren't console times generally quicker than PC? There is already a Huracan 1:38.692 within tenths of the Ferrari posted by a club racer on PC. The Ferrari time will no doubt improve over time as well, as will the other cars. The differences between the Ferraris and the rest are more stark at other TT tracks such as the Red Bull Ring where the Ferraris have a 2 to 3 second advantage...

From what Iíve been told pc has faster times with tracks like long beach, spa and a few others. My friend did his times on TT because he tunes and tests on TT too, I do most of my time online with heavier fuel and worse conditions compared to TT, on RBR I donít feel like the Ferrari is over the top on RBR, I did a 1.28.7 during a race the other day which is just a bit faster than what Iíve done in a 488. I feel like during console lobbies the lag and frame rate is unreal when people join compared to pc, Iíve been screwed over on a few last second laps in Q from my frames dropping in the last few corners when on a belter of a lap.

I feel atm on console the average level and highest level on skill are way lower on console which is a bit annoying. Because anyone can pick the game up and play it on a controller, the only cost being the price of the game. Whereas on pc you will need more commitment and funding to have a reasonable pc to run the game and then spend money on a wheel to be close to competitive. And then it can come down to skilful players not having the most expensive of wheels and not the best of performance pcís, then the not as good players having top of the range equipment giving them the edge to make them look faster.

The level of morons on console are completely higher tho, you get racing fans who try there best bless them who arenít the fastest. But I feel as the years have gone on with racing games from day forza 3 for e.g more lunatics have bought racing games and they just ram and crash people and give zero F**** about any sort of racing etiquette, sense or any levels of intelligence that could question their mental stableness.

bmanic
16-10-2017, 21:37
Yes, the Ferrari doesn't need anything, the other cars need improvements otherwise the Leaderboards would need a reset.

That's surely no problem at all. Leaderboards were reset multiple times during pCars 1 first year. It's actually quite positive to reset it every once in a while (but it would be nice if the old data was ARCHIVED and possible to view.. it's also very helpful for further future tweaking).

daohaus
16-10-2017, 23:12
I'm not seriously into the tuning of the cars, I like to just get in and drive them. I must say that as nice as the 911 GT3R is when I drove the GTE 488 it was truly an amazing driving experience, the car just did what you wanted and it was fast (Red Bull Ring). I'm sure if I had the time to play around w/ setup/tuning I could get other cars to be competitive as well but out of the box the 488 GTE is phenomenal.

Jezza819
17-10-2017, 14:04
I've been running AI at 40 recently and it seems that if there are 2 SLS Mercedes starting 1st and 2nd they will shoot off into the distance. Anything else starts 1 & 2 and they can eventually be caught.

honespc
17-10-2017, 15:12
I'm not seriously into the tuning of the cars, I like to just get in and drive them. I must say that as nice as the 911 GT3R is when I drove the GTE 488 it was truly an amazing driving experience, the car just did what you wanted and it was fast (Red Bull Ring). I'm sure if I had the time to play around w/ setup/tuning I could get other cars to be competitive as well but out of the box the 488 GTE is phenomenal.You should at least enter the tuning menu and properly configure the cold tyre pressures. Otherwise you will never be good to go even in you think you are.
______________________________________________________________

I've just had a 45:00 minutes GT3 race with 20 folks at Nurburing bombined. I managed to get pole with my Bentley 2015 (I'm very fast with this car on the Nords, combined or not). I couldn't stand a chance against the second and third Ferraris (behind me on Qualy), and ended the race on third position behind these two.

Tuned or not the Ferrari is one big lol imo. It's so good at all situations even with wrong tyre pressures that comes from default.

Managed to defeat Porches and McLarens. Not a chance against Ferraris. Happens at all times in most tracks.

Jezza819
17-10-2017, 19:21
You should at least enter the tuning menu and properly configure the cold tyre pressures. Otherwise you will never be good to go even in you think you are.
______________________________________________________________

I've just had a 45:00 minutes GT3 race with 20 folks at Nurburing bombined. I managed to get pole with my Bentley 2015 (I'm very fast with this car on the Nords, combined or not). I couldn't stand a chance against the second and third Ferraris (behind me on Qualy), and ended the race on third position behind these two.

Tuned or not the Ferrari is one big lol imo. It's so good at all situations even with wrong tyre pressures that comes from default.

Managed to defeat Porches and McLarens. Not a chance against Ferraris. Happens at all times in most tracks.

Do you have to do that even if you've got tire wear turned off?

blinkngone
17-10-2017, 19:32
First GT3 in the 53's at Silverstone National, still waiting for that 911 run I read about earlier.;)
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Scott Coffey
17-10-2017, 19:44
Do you have to do that even if you've got tire wear turned off?

Yeah. Pressures affect the heat of the tires as well as the size of the contact patch so it affects handling. Tire wear affects the tread itself. So turning off tire wear will keep your tires from wearing out (DOH) but you still need to look after pressure and temps.

Jezza819
17-10-2017, 19:50
Yeah. Pressures affect the heat of the tires as well as the size of the contact patch so it affects handling. Tire wear affects the tread itself. So turning off tire wear will keep your tires from wearing out (DOH) but you still need to look after pressure and temps.

Ok thanks, what do I need to adjust them to?

AbeWoz
17-10-2017, 19:54
~1.8bar is 'optimum' hot pressure

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2/page2&p=1400146#post1400146

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 01:49
2 Ferrarirs in the 53s on PC now. An improved BMW Z4 ahead of several other GT3s. So, what should the spread be between the fastest and slowest GT3s?
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Roushman624
18-10-2017, 02:34
It really only comes down to the better driver... the cars are perfectly fine the way they are now.

DECATUR PLAYA
18-10-2017, 04:43
I can admit when I'm wrong and I may have been wrong about the Ferrari. That car is a monster. I think it can be beaten but you got to drive a good race to beat it. It may need to be BOPPED a little bit. Im gonna trust Doug and Jussi on this one.

Jezza819
18-10-2017, 05:17
Yeah. Pressures affect the heat of the tires as well as the size of the contact patch so it affects handling. Tire wear affects the tread itself. So turning off tire wear will keep your tires from wearing out (DOH) but you still need to look after pressure and temps.

Ok now I get it. I ran a GT3 test using the default temps then ran another using Casey's suggestions and in the first test the pressures only got as high as 25psi but in the second test the pressures got to about 32 or 33psi and the car was about 1.5 seconds quicker and felt more manageable.

BubbaGrace
18-10-2017, 05:36
After reading all 17 pages of this thread I've determined I am the only person on earth who drives the ATS-V

Kebabfelix
18-10-2017, 06:02
After reading all 17 pages of this thread I've determined I am the only person on earth who drives the ATS-V

You know what, i'm going to join you and tune that car good.

BubbaGrace
18-10-2017, 06:39
Join us... and by us I mean me. People won't even know what happened. Judging by the posts here they will be like "What car was that? ATS-V, what the hell is that? I didn't even know that was in the game!" lmao

EDIT: It would be cool if SMS would release usage statistics like this from time to time just to see what people are driving, that is if they track these numbers.

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 10:18
Join us... and by us I mean me. People won't even know what happened. Judging by the posts here they will be like "What car was that? ATS-V, what the hell is that? I didn't even know that was in the game!" lmao

EDIT: It would be cool if SMS would release usage statistics like this from time to time just to see what people are driving, that is if they track these numbers.

Yes, please Bubba, Let's get this thing into the 54's.
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GrimeyDog
18-10-2017, 10:27
As Much as i like the Gt3 Porsche it just cant keep pace with the other Gt3 cars ---> The Gt3 Ginetta has been greatly improved with Pcars2 it can keep up depending on the track.... Pcars1 Gt3 Ginetta was really Slow and could Not keep up.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 10:35
First GT3 in the 53's at Silverstone National, still waiting for that 911 run I read about earlier.;)


Hey Blink, I just tried the Audi and with default setup I could do consistent 54.1-54.2, which is 3 tenths better to what I could do with the Ferrari default. And I did it only after 5 laps with the car, while I've done 100s (or possibly 1000s!) of laps with the Ferrari... With a good setup, I am sure the Audi should manage a 53.5 or better!
I think more data is needed before BoPing the Ferrari, it is indeed not always faster. I guess it's what the devs said as well, the Ferrari's strength is the high altitude tracks, where the turbo works better. Maybe just toning that down a bit would help.

Edit: Same with the BMW, just did a 54.1 in default, which is better than Ferrari's. So, at least in this track, the M6 and the LMS are faster than the 488. Not the Porsche, though, with this I could only do a 54.7. I'll have a quick go with all the other cars, too.

RomKnight
18-10-2017, 10:50
Why is everyone so obsessed with Ferrari? It'll be my last choice pretty much every time!
The McLaren has turbo too... no using it? Last time I ran Long Beach with it and it was pretty decent (in the rain at least)

I'll keep to my Lamborghini and/or Porsche though as I have this heart condition that splits it between the two brands :D

I have to say the Ginetta is tons of fun as well. It drives so differently :)

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 11:04
Hey Blink, I just tried the Audi and with default setup I could do consistent 54.1-54.2, which is 3 tenths better to what I could do with the Ferrari default. And I did it only after 5 laps with the car, while I've done 100s (or possibly 1000s!) of laps with the Ferrari... With a good setup, I am sure the Audi should manage a 53.5 or better!
I think more data is needed before BoPing the Ferrari, it is indeed not always faster. I guess it's what the devs said as well, the Ferrari's strength is the high altitude tracks, where the turbo works better. Maybe just toning that down a bit would help.

Edit: Same with the BMW, just did a 54.1 in default, which is better than Ferrari's. So, at least in this track, the M6 and the LMS are faster than the 488. Not the Porsche, though, with this I could only do a 54.7. I'll have a quick go with all the other cars, too.
Thanks cpcdem!

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 12:08
Why is everyone so obsessed with Ferrari? It'll be my last choice pretty much every time!
The McLaren has turbo too... no using it? Last time I ran Long Beach with it and it was pretty decent (in the rain at least)


Yeah, the McLaren seems to be fast as well, did the same time with the Audi and BMV. Why on earth have I've always been using the Ferrari in online races? :)
Guess it's just a mentality thing, Ferrari is a legend and (almost) everybody wants to use it. And if a lot of people are using it for too long, they will become better with it, than with other cars obviously. Maybe it is also genuinely faster indeed in some tracks.
But some time ago, I had briefly tried the M6 also in a high speed track (Red Bull Ring) and within a few laps I could match the time I've managed after 100s of laps with the 488. Looks like I simply ignored this, as it didn't fit my mentality liking the Ferrari and wanting to use it :)

bmanic
18-10-2017, 12:11
2 Ferrarirs in the 53s on PC now. An improved BMW Z4 ahead of several other GT3s. So, what should the spread be between the fastest and slowest GT3s?
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Not sure why you guys keep using Silverstone National as some kind of reference. IT IS A BAD TRACK TO USE AS REFERENCE FOR ANYTHING. Definitely not a good one to discuss BoP.

RomKnight
18-10-2017, 12:12
I know that it's probably the brand with the largest fan base IRL so, no wonder.

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 12:41
Not sure why you guys keep using Silverstone National as some kind of reference. IT IS A BAD TRACK TO USE AS REFERENCE FOR ANYTHING. Definitely not a good one to discuss BoP.

bmanic, go ahead and do your own testing at your ideal track. What's stopping you? The more tracks there are with people pushing the cars to their limits the better. The Universe is an immense place, find your place in it, go there.

BubbaGrace
18-10-2017, 13:00
Yes, please Bubba, Let's get this thing into the 54's.
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Ill give it a go. I can sling the ATS-V around a track pretty good I think. I've won 2 with it online... granted they were GT3 races so you know there were shenanigans involved at some point lol.

LMR TopSecret
18-10-2017, 13:08
bmanic, go ahead and do your own testing at your ideal track. What's stopping you? The more tracks there are with people pushing the cars to their limits the better. The Universe is an immense place, find your place in it, go there.

its pretty irrelevant testing on that track tho, because ive never seen it picked on xbox for this class and its not even the full layout. the tracks that should be tested are at least full layouts, popular tracks selected, relevant tracks or tracks GT cars actually race at.

I think some people are underestimating the R8 stock compared to the 488, the r8 has no faults where as the 488 understeers a lot. this is when the cars become almost switched. you put oversteer in that 488 and the right aero setup it can take off 1-2 seconds on some tracks, i dont see the R8 capable of taking that kind of time off when tuned like 488. the R8 is a lot more more superior stock compared to the 488 on low altitude tracks but thats it.

And to the Cadillac guy, it is a good car. its just a pain with its tcs slip like the nissan when you have TCS turned off. but ive had afew races in it for its inner animal behavior.

BubbaGrace
18-10-2017, 13:17
Im sure its not the ideal car, but Im a GM guy at heart and an American so I feel its my duty to support the team. RIP Cadillac GT3 Team, they are done after this year. Bring on the Vettes.

Krieg 1
18-10-2017, 13:25
So for those who say the Ferrari is not the fastest, can you show me one track where the top GT3 car on leader-board is not the Ferrari? Even one with a 911 within a second of the 488 would suffice.

You do realize a lot, and I mean a lot, of people do not do time trials because they don't want to share their setup. I have heard several times "Dude you smashed the world record you should go do TT's" to which i always reply...TT's are a lie. :D

Out of the box the 488 is hands down the easiest to drive imo but to be fair thats why it's the bronze drivers (in RL) car of choice. That aside after tuning the cars there are several that are on par with it. The big issue for me isn't the OP rarri it's the undeniably under balanced caddy, merc and aston. those things are dogs. :D

BubbaGrace
18-10-2017, 14:44
I personally do TT to push myself instead of epeen on the board, but I am one of the "bums" mentioned earlier lol.

Dozer K.A.O.
18-10-2017, 15:23
i'm not an expert tuning cars, and haven't red all the comments int his post, bui 9 of 10 times i play online at least two ferraris are in the podium, and the third one.. if it;s not another Ferrari, usually is an Audi., Now, probably with expert knowledge about tuning cars you can balance the thing a bit more, but for sure for the average driver Ferrari makes a huge difference, to the point i sometimes leave the race because 90% of the cars are ferraris.

Still the game is young, but i can't avoid thinking something is wrong here.

Speeddmon91
18-10-2017, 15:45
It's not that the Ferrari is op its the fact that it pull in every gear so well compare to most of the other cars. where most of them struggle to pull 5 and 6 the Ferrari just keep chucking along

DECATUR PLAYA
18-10-2017, 15:58
Not sure why you guys keep using Silverstone National as some kind of reference. IT IS A BAD TRACK TO USE AS REFERENCE FOR ANYTHING. Definitely not a good one to discuss BoP.

^Agreed

TommyFresh
18-10-2017, 16:09
I think driving style comes in to it a bit as well. I tested the Ferrari at Spa along side the Audi. I found I could get much better speed from the Ferrari on the straight (260kmph compared to the 253kmph of the Audi) I found the Ferrari much slower in the corners though (I used default set up on both) Spa is a track I would consider myself fairly consistent with, not the fastest by a long shot but consistency is more important when testing.

With the Audi I managed 2:22:799
With the Ferrari I managed 2:23.460

Both were tested at 3pm with clear conditions. I really felt like I was going faster in the Ferrari but in medium speed corners and under braking I felt less grip than the Audi. I found the Audi more consistent and a lot smoother to drive but again that could just be down to driving style.

The Ferrari is superior in 6th gear with much quicker acceleration. Lifting through Eau Rouge in the Ferrari still gave me a top speed of 260kmph compared to the Audi which was flat out and could only get the 253kmph

Fight-Test
18-10-2017, 16:28
its pretty irrelevant testing on that track tho, because ive never seen it picked on xbox for this class and its not even the full layout. the tracks that should be tested are at least full layouts, popular tracks selected, relevant tracks or tracks GT cars actually race at.

I think some people are underestimating the R8 stock compared to the 488, the r8 has no faults where as the 488 understeers a lot. this is when the cars become almost switched. you put oversteer in that 488 and the right aero setup it can take off 1-2 seconds on some tracks, i dont see the R8 capable of taking that kind of time off when tuned like 488. the R8 is a lot more more superior stock compared to the 488 on low altitude tracks but thats it.

And to the Cadillac guy, it is a good car. its just a pain with its tcs slip like the nissan when you have TCS turned off. but ive had afew races in it for its inner animal behavior.

I agree about the track. I was willing to help run some times when they started this but the track is very simple for that so Ive been testing at Hock GP, Silverstone GP, Road America and Laguna with the KTM. Each track offering something different. Gotta test high downforce and low downforce tracts. Along with a track that has some off camber corners. You need sweepers, hard stops and elevation changes on each type of track. These work pretty good for that but of course they can be swapped out for others. Variety is key.

The Caddy was a beast on PC1 but has the same tendency under power as it does in pcars 2. It's a good car but needs alot of diff. work. It's a roll on power car and not very forgiving on corner exit. I find it's strength is its acceleration and braking. I brake late and hard but you need to get the speed down quick because you can get back on the power early and power out if your not carrying to much speed. It's almost counter intuitive. Brake as late as possible but be slow on corner entry so you can power out sooner, yea I know it almost sounds contradictory but I don't know how to explain it better. It has some fantastic brakes which allows you to trail brake very good with alot of available rotation if you are left foot braking and keeping revs up with right foot. I will run some more laps in it and report back on my diff settings for it. I think all of the unpredictability of this car on corner exit can be tamed.

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 17:11
People run wherever you want, no one is telling you where to go. Pick your ideal track and run the cars to the best of your ability and move on to your next favorite track. Porsche is leading at Hochenhiem National.
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bmanic
18-10-2017, 17:46
You guys keep speculating about what is fastest etc.. with irrelevant and not at all thought out arguments.. and you are running a track that is not suitable at all for coming to any real conclusions. I mean, look at the name of the topic. GT3 car balancing..

We need a facepalm emoji.

*facepalm emoji here*

drizzit
18-10-2017, 18:24
Can only speak for myself but I'm running the tracks others do to help me develop as a driver and being able to compare how I'm doing to same people I know roughly how good they are.
I compare times to myself as I'm not nearly good/fast enough to be able to say if one car is better then another other then for me.

I doubt anyone would consider my times useful for anything anyway but if it helps fill out some leaderbords a bit then that cant be a bad thing.

Either way I'm enjoying myself and as said before thats the main purpose of this game so I'll keep at it.

honespc
18-10-2017, 18:47
Ferrari GT3 win win winnnn WINNNNNS!!

Typical pc2 GT3 lobby.

Player1- Ferrari
Player2- Ferrari
Player3- Ferrari
Player4- Ferrari
Player5- Ferrari
Player6- Ferrari
Player7- Ferrari
Player8- Ferrari
Player9- Ferrari
Player10-Ferrari
-
-
-
-
-

LMR TopSecret
18-10-2017, 18:49
I agree about the track. I was willing to help run some times when they started this but the track is very simple for that so Ive been testing at Hock GP, Silverstone GP, Road America and Laguna with the KTM. Each track offering something different. Gotta test high downforce and low downforce tracts. Along with a track that has some off camber corners. You need sweepers, hard stops and elevation changes on each type of track. These work pretty good for that but of course they can be swapped out for others. Variety is key.

The Caddy was a beast on PC1 but has the same tendency under power as it does in pcars 2. It's a good car but needs alot of diff. work. It's a roll on power car and not very forgiving on corner exit. I find it's strength is its acceleration and braking. I brake late and hard but you need to get the speed down quick because you can get back on the power early and power out if your not carrying to much speed. It's almost counter intuitive. Brake as late as possible but be slow on corner entry so you can power out sooner, yea I know it almost sounds contradictory but I don't know how to explain it better. It has some fantastic brakes which allows you to trail brake very good with alot of available rotation if you are left foot braking and keeping revs up with right foot. I will run some more laps in it and report back on my diff settings for it. I think all of the unpredictability of this car on corner exit can be tamed.


Yh I get what you mean, I drive the 911 like that on some tracks with its weight balance to plot in and go out full throttle. Due to the cars unreal power under steer. My only problem is I’m on pad on the Xbox so that driving style can be quite inconsistent in some cars that dive into the corner under breaking. I had problems in the AMG at hockenheim until I tuned it and managed to get into the 38s. I can do fast time considering I’m on pad. But I still feel wheel gets an edge for overall lap times and due to me on pad some cars are a bit of a Handful at times.

And to the guy who said the mercs are underpowered drive the sls on imola, it will par with the R8 on that track. Its good on Daytona too. I’ve driven the AMG around zuhai and it was faster then some of the other cars around there. They just drive differently because of the engines position.

Kebabfelix
18-10-2017, 19:25
Ferrari GT3 win win winnnn WINNNNNS!!

Typical pc2 GT3 lobby.

Player1- Ferrari
Player2- Ferrari
Player3- Ferrari
Player4- Ferrari
Player5- Ferrari
Player6- Ferrari
Player7- Ferrari
Player8- Ferrari
Player9- Ferrari
Player10-Ferrari
-
-
-
-
-

That's why I pick any other GT3 car and I love beating all them Ferraris :D

Kebabfelix
18-10-2017, 20:08
After reading all 17 pages of this thread I've determined I am the only person on earth who drives the ATS-V

Eyy! 50,1 at Redbull Ring National, WR with the ATS-V.

0.2 tenths faster than I was with my Ferrari!

Hot damn :D

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 20:42
Eyy! 50,1 at Redbull Ring National, WR with the ATS-V.

0.2 tenths faster than I was with my Ferrari!

Hot damn :D

Cool Kebabfelix! :cool:Having fun yet?

Gambit74
18-10-2017, 22:05
I'm rather disappointed with the Porsche I've tweaked best I know and it understeers something chronic, the RUF in the first game was miles better, had loads of grip and was faster. The Porsche scrapes 175mph down Mulsan with hardly any downforce, says it will do 186... Off the White cliffs of Dover, maybe.

Also, why are the gear ratios fixed? Even the final gear.

LMR TopSecret
18-10-2017, 22:09
I'm rather disappointed with the Porsche I've tweaked best I know and it understeers something chronic, the RUF in the first game was miles better, had loads of grip and was faster. The Porsche scrapes 175mph down Mulsan with hardly any downforce, says it will do 186... Off the White cliffs of Dover, maybe.

i dont think any of the GT3 cars hit their 300 kmh speed that the game says so, the m6 hits about 280 then red bangs on the revs and you cant even adjust the final on it. these cars arent really designed for La sarthe either way, thats why the GTE cars race there. but what the 911 lacks in TT or Q pace it makes up in race pace, the way you have to drive the 911 makes it hard to overtake once its in front plus it pulls off the line quicker than any other gt3 cars from standing starts.

plabersins
18-10-2017, 22:09
After reading all 17 pages of this thread I've determined I am the only person on earth who drives the ATS-V

I feel you, I drive the Ginetta.

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 22:16
I'm rather disappointed with the Porsche I've tweaked best I know and it understeers something chronic, the RUF in the first game was miles better, had loads of grip and was faster. The Porsche scrapes 175mph down Mulsan with hardly any downforce, says it will do 186... Off the White cliffs of Dover, maybe.

Also, why are the gear ratios fixed? Even the final gear.

Hey, Gambit74, try my Porsche at Silverstone National TT, we just started running there so it's not finished but ok.

Gambit74
18-10-2017, 22:33
Do you have a setup?

NMD
18-10-2017, 22:41
in some forums and youtube channels of simracing say that PC2 categories cars are not balanced and you notice the differences between cars.see if SMS in the next patch balances PC2 cars and that there is no difference between cars each category.

LMR TopSecret
18-10-2017, 23:16
Hey, Gambit74, try my Porsche at Silverstone National TT, we just started running there so it's not finished but ok.

i just popped on and thought why not try the track in my 911. managed a 53.957 on my first lap. my sectors were 13.054, 18.740, 22.164. my 911 tune is a dime and that car is all about the diff imo. that car would do a mid-low 53 on a wheel easily

RomKnight
18-10-2017, 23:32
Ferrari GT3 win win winnnn WINNNNNS!!

Typical pc2 GT3 lobby.

Player1- Ferrari
Player2- Ferrari
Player3- Ferrari
Player4- Ferrari
Player5- Ferrari
Player6- Ferrari
Player7- Ferrari
Player8- Ferrari
Player9- Ferrari
Player10-Ferrari
-
-
-
-
-

Actually did 4 races just now only in GT3. The was even a Renault RS in it and the only ferrari that was in front of me (in all races) did it by a few seconds (so it's not the car :) )

He got company from others too so... I have my doubts that the Ferrari is THE car to beat, still.

Scott Coffey
19-10-2017, 00:03
i dont think any of the GT3 cars hit their 300 kmh speed that the game says so, the m6 hits about 280 then red bangs on the revs and you cant even adjust the final on it. these cars arent really designed for La sarthe either way, thats why the GTE cars race there. but what the 911 lacks in TT or Q pace it makes up in race pace, the way you have to drive the 911 makes it hard to overtake once its in front plus it pulls off the line quicker than any other gt3 cars from standing starts.

I've yet to hit the rev limiter with the Audi... even with the shorter gears.

Kebabfelix
19-10-2017, 04:28
Actually did 4 races just now only in GT3. The was even a Renault RS in it and the only ferrari that was in front of me (in all races) did it by a few seconds (so it's not the car :) )

He got company from others too so... I have my doubts that the Ferrari is THE car to beat, still.

Would say it's for sure the one to beat, I mean even the devs know this now and are working on a fix.

However, there are so many variables to it.

If we take out the driving skill, style, track out of the question. You are still left with setups and race length.

So, the Z4 with 10 liters of fuel and soft tyres is crazy fast on nimble tracks. However, put 30 liters and hard? The car is so much slower than the other GT3 cars.

Lambo? Great on qualy and great on race pace, basically almost no difference.

Hell it goes even further, the Audi and Lambo is way to stiff going over the bumps on Brands hatch. Those two cars are the only one I've lost the backend due to road bumps.

Some GT3 cars are fast but hard to put on pace every lap(Mclaren) other cars are just so easy to go fast with each lap, resulting in better pace over time.

So all I got to say. It's a big GT3 field and all the car feels different and work different and to me that is so fun!

tommysalami
26-10-2017, 15:20
For those of you suggesting Silverstone national is bad for benchmarking the cars, which track would you say is better?

hkraft300
26-10-2017, 22:23
For those of you suggesting Silverstone national is bad for benchmarking the cars, which track would you say is better?

GP tracks. Variety of corners and has straights.
Spa for high speed + some elevation. Red Bull ring to get high up (that's the highest elevation in the game, no?). Portimao for a handling track, and/or Barcelona.
I'm sure there are others. Cota too.

Silverstone national is a few turns and half a squirt. Suppose you could compare some slow road cars there but GT3? Come on.

WvAllwheelDrive
26-10-2017, 22:44
Yeah no single circuit is going to be able to determine the class balance. You would have to get test results from just about every track in the game with a a bunch of different drivers, both driving and setting up every car in class then it's still not going to be perfect. Look at how much work the SRO, ACO, FiA, and IMSA do to try and BoP GT3 cars just to get them sort of close.

SeaNNyT
26-10-2017, 23:05
The audi also seems to oversteer excessively on certain corners. Even with tuning. Compared to other GT3s it seems unusual.

Warmos
26-10-2017, 23:08
With this balance you see every ESL has only ferrari finals its just fastest. Fixed or not. Its easiest to drive. Yeah it doesnt turn in that well but but the corner speed is still same or better than other cars.

Just me the whining Acura driver :D

wcujer80
27-10-2017, 01:12
Yeah no single circuit is going to be able to determine the class balance. You would have to get test results from just about every track in the game with a a bunch of different drivers, both driving and setting up every car in class then it's still not going to be perfect. Look at how much work the SRO, ACO, FiA, and IMSA do to try and BoP GT3 cars just to get them sort of close.

This is true. I will say that the Ferrari is the only car in the whole class that seems to be as fast or faster than what it seems to do in real life. Looking at some of the Blancpain qualifying times this year compared to the top times posted in TT you can see the disparity.

At Monza the fastest Q3 time this year was a Ferrari at 1:47.423, the fastest Lambo (2nd quick overall) was 1:47.485, and the 4th fastest overall was a Bentley at 1:47.6, and the fastest Aston Martin was 1:47.807. In TT the times are Ferrari at 1:45.739, Lambo at 1:47.374, Bentley at 1:49.565, and the Aston at 1:49.35.

At Brands Hatch the fastest Q3 time was a Lambo at 1:22.891, Audi was second at 1:23.391, and BMW was third at 1:23.455. In TT they are 1:25.222, 1:23.784, and 1:24.957 respectively. However, the Audi only has two times below 1:24.5 and none of those are this month (not sure if the patch changed anything). The Ferrari's fastest this year was 1:23.818 while the TT time is 1:23.343.

Lastly, at Spa the Ferrari put up a 2:17.930, 2nd was a Lambo at 2:17.447, 3rd was an Audi at 2:17.630, 4th was a Porsche at 2:17.645, and 7th was an Aston at 2:17.901. In TT they are Ferrari at 2:16.259, Lambo at 2:18.919, Audi at 2:17.621 (though like Brands Hatch there is a gap at the top, with one guy being 0.702 seconds faster than everyone else), Porsche is at 2:19.020, while the Aston is at 2:21.419.

I know there will be differences between real world and what happens in a sim but it is fairly clear that the Ferrari isn't just consistently faster than all the other cars but faster in most places than in real life. The Aston (and the Bentley from what I've seen) on the other hand are slower than most of the GT3 class but also well below what they can do in real life.

honespc
27-10-2017, 06:32
Yeah my Bentley seems to be very slow in pc2 xD. And still got the issue in the '15 version about the downforce. No matter I go 0 in the front and rear the car won't gain the extra speed that is supposed to.

The Bentley has also very intrusive downshift protection, and tweaking the gearbox..., can you even?

I think best gt3 is the Acura somehow. Then it would go the Porche even if it can understeer very bad on slow corners. The Ferrari looks like an all rounder destroyer, simply put.

rich1e I
27-10-2017, 07:44
Agree, it's a shame the Bentley isn't up to speed. I'll keep picking it because it looks and sounds fantastic. One of my favourites

Kebabfelix
27-10-2017, 08:52
With this balance you see every ESL has only ferrari finals its just fastest. Fixed or not. Its easiest to drive. Yeah it doesnt turn in that well but but the corner speed is still same or better than other cars.

Just me the whining Acura driver :D

Yeah that they haven't nerfed the Ferrari yet is beyond me. Great watching ESL races where the only car in GT3 worth competing with is Ferrari lol..

RomKnight
27-10-2017, 08:57
Yeah that they haven't nerfed the Ferrari yet is beyond me. Great watching ESL races where the only car in GT3 worth competing with is Ferrari lol..

What's the next "best" car? it'll always end up ONE car being used for whatever reason. I recall this being the same everywhere else. Those aliens will always find one car works best than the others overall.

I know, I know, the Ferrari is simply better as it is even if only because it's just easier to extract more out of it but that's not my point.

Kebabfelix
27-10-2017, 10:14
What's the next "best" car? it'll always end up ONE car being used for whatever reason. I recall this being the same everywhere else. Those aliens will always find one car works best than the others overall.

I know, I know, the Ferrari is simply better as it is even if only because it's just easier to extract more out of it but that's not my point.

Yeah but right now the Ferrari is just better in all situation, I could say the Mclaren is 2nd best but that car is atleast sometimes better than most cars and other cars can beat it.

rich1e I
27-10-2017, 10:34
I remember the Z4 was a very popular car in PC1. Now it's the Ferrari. The ESL Go4 Project CARS Euro Cup was actually a Ferrari fest. I'm already at the point that I can't stand this car anymore and I'll just boycott it :p

honespc
27-10-2017, 11:20
I think that instead of toning down the Ferrari in the next update, the way to go that players would like the most is a buff on the other cars. Don't nerf the best in a category and make it less appealing. Just buff the rest of the pack to make all cars appealing:)

If there's a car that needs a buff for instance that is the Bentley '15, among other things because it's got that annoying downforce issue that still wasn't addressed in the last patch, that won't let it gain extra top speed on straights (where the Bentley should destroy its competence) even with very low downforce. That added to the veeeery intrusive downshift protection this car suffers from, then driving the Bently in pc2 has become some sort of.., act of faith?, heck, I struggle now to win even at the Nords with this car, when in pc1 the Bentley was the ultimate GT3 destroyer on this layout. You laughed at every other gt3 in this track with this car, literally.

And what's with these new gearbox ratios?, there's no point anymore in increasing the final ratio for extra top speed in any gt3 car, not to mention they can't be tweaked individually (in the sense you know)

RomKnight
27-10-2017, 11:33
They Ferrari being BoP can actually have other consequences. TT laptimes need to be erased or they'll never be matched again.

Scott Coffey
27-10-2017, 20:00
What's the next "best" car? it'll always end up ONE car being used for whatever reason. I recall this being the same everywhere else. Those aliens will always find one car works best than the others overall.

I know, I know, the Ferrari is simply better as it is even if only because it's just easier to extract more out of it but that's not my point.

I didn't see that in pcars1.

Scott Coffey
27-10-2017, 20:03
And what's with these new gearbox ratios?, there's no point anymore in increasing the final ratio for extra top speed in any gt3 car, not to mention they can't be tweaked individually (in the sense you know)

This. I've yet to find a stretch of track where I can hit the rev limiter with the Audi GT3. The odd gearing was the thing I noticed the first time I drove the car.

RomKnight
27-10-2017, 20:13
I won't be checking that's for sure :p But if so... GO SMS :D

KANETAKER
27-10-2017, 20:30
I think that instead of toning down the Ferrari in the next update, the way to go that players would like the most is a buff on the other cars. Don't nerf the best in a category and make it less appealing. Just buff the rest of the pack to make all cars appealing:)

If there's a car that needs a buff for instance that is the Bentley '15, among other things because it's got that annoying downforce issue that still wasn't addressed in the last patch, that won't let it gain extra top speed on straights (where the Bentley should destroy its competence) even with very low downforce. That added to the veeeery intrusive downshift protection this car suffers from, then driving the Bently in pc2 has become some sort of.., act of faith?, heck, I struggle now to win even at the Nords with this car, when in pc1 the Bentley was the ultimate GT3 destroyer on this layout. You laughed at every other gt3 in this track with this car, literally.

And what's with these new gearbox ratios?, there's no point anymore in increasing the final ratio for extra top speed in any gt3 car, not to mention they can't be tweaked individually (in the sense you know)

I agree. Ideally, everything should be paired up, instead of matching everything down. What people want are faster cars (within their respective categories), not slower cars.

WvAllwheelDrive
27-10-2017, 20:31
Then you run into the cars being as fast as the GTE cars, which they are pretty close too now.

Nyreen
27-10-2017, 21:16
I agree. Ideally, everything should be paired up, instead of matching everything down. What people want are faster cars (within their respective categories), not slower cars.

You can't do that. You just can't buff EVERY other car in the category when you just can nerf one instead. This is the way it's done for every other competitive game, I don't recall a time where League of Legends buffed 138 champions. It's just pissing off people in the racing community because what an other game is scaling with (Damages - Health - Skillcap - ...) is different here (Laptimes). And there's no point for SMS to do such a thing as making the GT3s almost as fast as the GTEs, which is pretty balanced (apart from the Bimmer and the Aston imo)

GTX BaCoNSauCZ
24-11-2017, 07:51
i dont want to hear anymore defense over this. That Ferrari is way faster on any track. Period. Please address this.

RacingAtHome
24-11-2017, 08:01
i dont want to hear anymore defense over this. That Ferrari is way faster on any track. Period. Please address this.

It is and the problem is highlighted more by circuits with faster corners and longer straights like at Spa and Algarve. I have a stable setup for my Bentley so won at Imola with few mistakes in the same league but it's not as fast as a stable setup for the Ferrari would and I don't want to drive it.


I think that instead of toning down the Ferrari in the next update, the way to go that players would like the most is a buff on the other cars. Don't nerf the best in a category and make it less appealing. Just buff the rest of the pack to make all cars appealing:)

If there's a car that needs a buff for instance that is the Bentley '15, among other things because it's got that annoying downforce issue that still wasn't addressed in the last patch, that won't let it gain extra top speed on straights (where the Bentley should destroy its competence) even with very low downforce. That added to the veeeery intrusive downshift protection this car suffers from, then driving the Bently in pc2 has become some sort of.., act of faith?, heck, I struggle now to win even at the Nords with this car, when in pc1 the Bentley was the ultimate GT3 destroyer on this layout. You laughed at every other gt3 in this track with this car, literally.

And what's with these new gearbox ratios?, there's no point anymore in increasing the final ratio for extra top speed in any gt3 car, not to mention they can't be tweaked individually (in the sense you know)

I've got quite a nice stable setup for the Bentley 2016 but it's still quite slow and that frustrates me massively. I'm a huge Bentley fan and love the variety BOP series like GT3 and TCR bring but all bar 2 of the other cars are Ferrari/Mclaren/Lamborghini. In another, I'm the only non-Ferrari/Mclaren driving. It's frustrating.

Ofnir4
24-11-2017, 16:11
Some GT3 are held back by setup restrictions that makes them unattractive for a lot of tracks.
The Aston (Lambo too) has close to no aero adjustment as well as a 1st gear that goes to 285kph...
The R8s have minimum camber value so high and suspensions so soft, no one would take that car without a setup, also the rev limiter is MC Hammer (can't touch it !).
The Continental GT and GTR are tanks, just like real life, with none of the advantages they have IRL.
The AMG has a 5 speed gearbox, good luck reaching 6th gear with downforce.

That doesn't leave a lot a good, versatile cars, even less if you consider than half of the races held are at Spa and Monza.
If hosts were a bit more imaginative when it comes to tracks or race length (yes, cars that suck in a 5 lap races do not suck on the long run), the current BOP would be criticized a bit less.

But GT3 balancing has to stay within GT3, if you mess with the overall pace of that class, you have to adjust the GTE, LMP3 and LMP2 classes as well.
And GTE pace is pretty spot on (except at Le Mans, ironically).

Nyreen
24-11-2017, 17:21
I've done some GTE laptimes yesterday and came to the conclusion that the Ferrari GTE is also very dominant. They already did it for the real Ford GTLM, I think SMS should restrict the turbo of the Ferrari a bit.

TexasTyme214
24-11-2017, 23:12
I've done some GTE laptimes yesterday and came to the conclusion that the Ferrari GTE is also very dominant. They already did it for the real Ford GTLM, I think SMS should restrict the turbo of the Ferrari a bit.

I recently noticed this. The Ferrari lacks some straightline speed, but it more than makes up for it in the turns. I'd give it a tiny bit more boost and maybe 15-20kg of weight.

F1_Racer68
25-11-2017, 02:17
And what's with these new gearbox ratios?, there's no point anymore in increasing the final ratio for extra top speed in any gt3 car, not to mention they can't be tweaked individually (in the sense you know)

I hope you realize that in GT3 Technical specifications, the gearboxes are sealed and cannot be adjusted by the teams..... That is part of the BoP system.

Roushman624
25-11-2017, 04:56
The cars are balanced enough... quit crying and get good.

RacingAtHome
25-11-2017, 12:24
The cars are balanced enough... quit crying and get good.

No they are not. The Ferrari goes far better on circuits with fast corners. I'm in a Bentley with a nice and stable setup and I get destroyed by similar paced drivers in Ferraris and Mclarens at Spa. There's a reason most people use the Ferrari and it's not because of the brand.

My Bentley is a tank and sometimes drives like one at the same tracks I mentioned above with understeer galore. There's a reason nobody uses the GTR/Caddy online bar their fans.

Ofnir4
25-11-2017, 12:40
I use the GTR quite a lot, but it's saddening to use a car to show the people online that it exists and can be good. But you are either stuck with no downforce or max downforce to be competitive, no middle ground. But that's the way the car behave IRL.

The ATS-VR seems to suffer from excessive engine braking, even at the lowest setting, making difficult to carry speed into corners without using higher gears, that in turn cost you on corner exit.

I really like the Bentley when set up right but haven't done enough racing to judge its competitiveness, I just can't stand the cockpit view, am I driving with the wheel in my crotch ? (also wrong steering wheel on the 2016 version)

Stache
26-11-2017, 01:10
well just look at the composition of a "normal" GT3 race !.

if the choice is free ,ALWAYS more then 50% of the cars will be 488 GT3's most of the time even more !;.....got to feed the "gottawin" kiddies!!.

And i tend to avoid driving the 488 just for that reason! , i wont to score results by my self ,not using some "overmoddelled" car.

F1_Racer68
26-11-2017, 02:15
Are the cars balanced?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57027-Suspected-Bug-Altitude-impact-on-Horsepower

Maybe, maybe not. ;)

BubbaGrace
26-11-2017, 16:43
There's a reason nobody uses the GTR/Caddy online bar their fans.

It's me, I'm the guy in the BIG DADDY CADDY. If you see one it's 90% chance it's me driving it as I've yet to see another person driving one. Yes it is a struggle sometimes because of performance, and my skill honestly lol. I have put in some excellent results with the car, but that is usually when people in front of me in the "GOOD CARS" make mistakes. It's not a bad car and I enjoy driving it so I will continue to do so regardless of the handicap.

RacingAtHome
26-11-2017, 17:42
It's me, I'm the guy in the BIG DADDY CADDY. If you see one it's 90% chance it's me driving it as I've yet to see another person driving one. Yes it is a struggle sometimes because of performance, and my skill honestly lol. I have put in some excellent results with the car, but that is usually when people in front of me in the "GOOD CARS" make mistakes. It's not a bad car and I enjoy driving it so I will continue to do so regardless of the handicap.

Replace Big Daddy Caddy with Bentley and you have me. I'd love that car to be level with the rest.

F1_Racer68
26-11-2017, 18:29
Looks like some work has been done to address this issue after all in the upcoming patch.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57027-Suspected-Bug-Altitude-impact-on-Horsepower&p=1430857&viewfull=1#post1430857

Some of the "modern classes" have received BoP in the upcoming patch.

Balles
28-11-2017, 21:30
After the patch the first thing I did is to timetrial with some GT3s at Spa to test the new balance. I took the BMW, Renault and Lambo for a few laps and I did the same laptimes as before the patch. Then the Ferrari wich I used to play and I was a bit slower (than before the patch), but not much, about 0.5s. I don't know if it's my driving or real nerf.
My first thought is that balance is not enough as I expected to be a little closer to the Ferrrari with the others cars but I'm still 1s to 2s faster in the Ferrari.
What do you guys think ?

ATSS
28-11-2017, 21:36
After the patch the first thing I did is to timetrial with some GT3s at Spa to test the new balance. I took the BMW, Renault and Lambo for a few laps and I did the same laptimes as before the patch. Then the Ferrari wich I used to play and I was a bit slower (than before the patch), but not much, about 0.5s. I don't know if it's my driving or real nerf.
My first thought is that balance is not enough as I expected to be a little closer to the Ferrrari with the others cars but I'm still 1s to 2s faster in the Ferrari.
What do you guys think ?

I like 7-8tenths off the pace in the red bull ring with the ferrari now. Feels slower in the straights.

Its maybe not enough nerf, still faster than the Bmw and Mclaren at least for me.

SaxonRaider
28-11-2017, 22:06
Patch 3
These are my findings doing Monza Historic TT with all the GT3 Cars with default stable setup.
I don't claim to be a great driver but i'm somewhat consistent. I'm sure others will get different results.

In order of laptime:
1. Ferrari 488 1.31.959
2. 911 1.32.126
3. AMG 1.32.316
4. Cad ATS-VR 1.32.643
5. R8 1.32.739
6. SLS AMG 1.32.759
7. Ginetta 1.32.782
8. Huracan 1.32.881
9. Nissan GT-R 1.32.979
10. BMW Z4 1.33.041
11. BMW M6 1.33.276
12. Mc 650S 1.33.301
13. Continental 1.33.360
14. NSX 1.33.466
15. RS01 1.33.699
16. Vantage 1.33.782

It would be good to see another person doing the same.

beatrunner
28-11-2017, 22:24
people please stop talking about nerfing the ferrari down. i loved that car before the patch, i got beaten in it before the patch.
what what has happened to this before lovely car?....is it only me to be really disappointed about the changes in/at that car?

Edit after 2 hours with it: okay...some adjustments to setup and it's ok again.

Balles
28-11-2017, 22:29
people please stop talking about nerfing the ferrari down. i loved that car before the patch, i got beaten in it before the patch.
what what has happened to this before lovely car?....is it only me to be really disappointed about the changes in/at that car?

The Ferrari is still lovely to me. It was easier to nerf it a bit than boost all the other cars I think. But I'd like they would have boost the others a bit (or a bit more if they did).
I noticed the Ferrari have smoking tyres quite a lot now indeed. But it handles quite the same to me.

tommysalami
28-11-2017, 22:45
Patch 3
These are my findings doing Monza Historic TT with all the GT3 Cars with default stable setup.
I don't claim to be a great driver but i'm somewhat consistent. I'm sure others will get different results.

In order of laptime:
1. Ferrari 488 1.31.959
2. 911 1.32.126
3. AMG 1.32.316
4. Cad ATS-VR 1.32.643
5. R8 1.32.739
6. SLS AMG 1.32.759
7. Ginetta 1.32.782
8. Huracan 1.32.881
9. Nissan GT-R 1.32.979
10. BMW Z4 1.33.041
11. BMW M6 1.33.276
12. Mc 650S 1.33.301
13. Continental 1.33.360
14. NSX 1.33.466
15. RS01 1.33.699
16. Vantage 1.33.782

It would be good to see another person doing the same.

So the vantage still sucks. That's too bad but we'll have to wait and see as well all do our own testing

hkraft300
28-11-2017, 22:46
If the 488 gets pegged the 650 will become dominant.

SaxonRaider
28-11-2017, 22:51
If the 488 gets pegged the 650 will become dominant.

Personally i dont think so, I really struggled with the understeer in my TT lap testing above... Incidentally, I only did 1 lap in the Ferrari to get that time, and it was with a mistake or 2. But it was still 1st comfortably. all the other cars i did about 5 laps each. twice.

tommysalami
28-11-2017, 22:52
If the 488 gets pegged the 650 will become dominant.

Or the R8. I felt many other cars needed buffs in addition, such as the Vantage, NSX, and Continental. I guess we'll see

MJP
28-11-2017, 22:57
If the 488 gets pegged the 650 will become dominant.

Not unless its had some sort of aero improvements because its had a big power nerf.

hkraft300
28-11-2017, 23:14
Personally i dont think so, I really struggled with the understeer in my TT lap testing above... Incidentally, I only did 1 lap in the Ferrari to get that time, and it was with a mistake or 2. But it was still 1st comfortably. all the other cars i did about 5 laps each. twice.

Default or tuned? Because the 650 handles beautiful with a few tweaks. I felt it could easily keep with the 488 before, in different race conditions not in TT.


Or the R8. I felt many other cars needed buffs in addition, such as the Vantage, NSX, and Continental. I guess we'll see

Really? Considering the NSX is about level with R8 at high altitudes, R8 and huracan may have a big advantage at low altitude over the NSX. That said...


Not unless its had some sort of aero improvements because its had a big power nerf.

Minor tweaks would be the way to go. A slight nerf here, a little boost there...
SMS have proper performance data and they can see what the cars are doing far more than whatís put out via udp, so Whether a power boost, a ratio tweak or an aero adjustment theyíll get it closer.

I still like to smash 488 noobs in public MP with an AMG or NSX...

SaxonRaider
28-11-2017, 23:21
Default or tuned? Because the 650 handles beautiful with a few tweaks. I felt it could easily keep with the 488 before, in different race conditions not in TT.

As i said in my post, all times were done with default stable setup. And yes i could keep up with a 488 before in a 650, but not anymore by a long way. The Huracan feels very underpowered but made up for it in handling. The NSX for some reason i just couldnt get fast in that. Other people might do better with it tho i'm sure.

.db.
28-11-2017, 23:27
Personally I am very disappointed with the nerf on the Ferrari.

I bought the game three weeks ago and it took me until yesterday to get my setup right where I want it.
It felt so good to drive that I posted it here last night. Today after the update it drives like a bag of potatoes. Great!
Seems its a combo of the car nerf and the new tyre physics but I cannot find grip any more. Its horrible.
Please put the Ferrari and the tyres back to where they were and boost the other cars up to match performance?

It is FAR better to balance a class by bringing the slower cars up to match the fastest than it is to nerf one car.
If one car gets nerfed to lose performance it will never feel as nice to drive again. Setups don't work and
laptimes are never the same again. The car feels tainted forever after and all the "world records" for the car are
now meaningless. Its a sure fire way to annoy all the Ferrari drivers.

If you bring the other cars up to meet the Ferrari, everyone is happy. The Ferrari doesn't lose any performance
but everyone else gains and we get some closer contests. Brilliant. So please boost the slow and don't nerf the fast?
NOBODY wants to get downgraded performance!

That's my two cents. Peace out .db.

Nyreen
28-11-2017, 23:41
If we buff all the other GT3's, even LMP2 will be slower !...

I'm just disappointed because the 488 will still be dominant in the GT3 scenery, as I would like to see other cars (because apart from the Ferrari, the McLaren - Audi - Porsche - Merc - Lambo are quite balanced)