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Flamaros
29-09-2017, 20:50
I want share my thoughts on a feeling I have about the fact the AI drivers are all the same.

It seems that there is no differences between AI drivers, they don't have a proper personality and/or a driving style, for me this is why they are driven on a train line.
I think that they should have personal stats values on some skills:

Warm up (how they are good to warm wheel on break during the preparation lap)
Corner preference (slow, medium or high speed)
Aggressiveness (during defense, overtake, race start, first lap, ...)
Weather conditions management (how much wet, snow, night, impact their speed)
Understeer or oversteer preference (this will define their cars preferences?)
...


I really think that implementing that can improve greatly the interest of the solo and career modes.

This is a little boring to see all cars having exactly the same speed on each corners and top speed on straight lines (they should have different setups too).

I am almost sure that it can also help to improve how they are locking themself in first tight corner of the race because they are to close at start and just want all the same thing, having some drivers more safer and let the others overtakes can simplify this issue, isn't it?

Balles
29-09-2017, 21:02
PC3 features ?!!!

If you want AI behaves like humans, I'd recommand the MP for now.

Kriptical
29-09-2017, 21:10
I’ve read that with a difficulty above 80 the Ai tunes their cars to the respective tracks. You might see more of what your looking for at that level.

Flamaros
29-09-2017, 21:12
PC3 features ?!!!

If you want AI behaves like humans, I'd recommand the MP for now.

Lol, having small variations factors per pilote isn't the same as requesting that they acts like human.
No system based on deep learning things to make them human is the thing for PC3 (maybe the AI of roborace car? :rolleyes:).

Flamaros
29-09-2017, 21:14
I’ve read that with a difficulty above 80 the Ai tunes their cars to the respective tracks. You might see more of what your looking for at that level.

Sadly since the patch it seems that I have to decrease the level, before few races I made I had more than 1s per turn of advance at level 75, and now I am more than 1s late :confused:

Balles
29-09-2017, 21:15
To be serious, what you ask is a lot of work for the devs and that's why I said PC3 feature, I don't think we'll see such things in PC2. But who knows ?...

Eric Rowland
29-09-2017, 21:20
I didn't know Kimi Raikkonen was in the game........

Flamaros
29-09-2017, 21:29
I didn't know Kimi Raikkonen was in the game........

Take a look to the smile of Pierre Gasly :o

Flamaros
29-09-2017, 21:34
To be serious, what you ask is a lot of work for the devs and that's why I said PC3 feature, I don't think we'll see such things in PC2. But who knows ?...

It depend on how the AI is currently structured in the code, some time small features are the hell to implement and some that can seems major are just straight forward (not necessary the same as fast).
Maybe SMS have some job offers ;)

Bealdor
29-09-2017, 21:40
Different AI personalities/traits (varying aggressiveness, performance, start reaction times, consistency, stamina, etc.) are already in the game.

Flamaros
30-09-2017, 10:44
Different AI personalities/traits (varying aggressiveness, performance, start reaction times, consistency, stamina, etc.) are already in the game.

Nice to learn, so it is certainly a thing that need more tweaking to let us feel that.

maTech
30-09-2017, 16:30
Iíve read that with a difficulty above 80 the Ai tunes their cars to the respective tracks. You might see more of what your looking for at that level.

I have a question to this...Is it necessary for the ai to learn a track in practice and to develop their setup there or do they have a "perfect" setup at race start then?

kidcurry
30-09-2017, 17:38
I race at 110-115 percent. the AI are pretty good and they do race each other. I had a pack of 5 behind me and they were passing each other as I held them up. One finally made a great pass on me on the outside. It was very clean pass.

Leper Messiah
30-09-2017, 17:56
Yes it would be nice, I remember fiddling with the Ai of SCGT, I think it had three variables in a file that could be adjusted. But that was in the days of MUCH simpler physics (and ai used even simpler physics, like most games today) and no evolving track conditions. I'd like the Ai to be more human, even if it's just the illusion of it.


It depend on how the AI is currently structured in the code, some time small features are the hell to implement and some that can seems major are just straight forward (not necessary the same as fast).
Maybe SMS have some job offers ;)

They DO, they want Ai coders. go for it! :)

But it's not easy, driving a car is vastly complex, driving it fast even more more complex, racing it fast vs others is another level of complexity again. Replicating the thought and motor processes of a human would take a supercomputer. Not only do most gamers PC not fall into that category, the CPU time is also used for other things. It truly is an impossible task, but once again I agree it would be nice to have.

Trippul G
30-09-2017, 18:38
I will say be careful what you wish for. Forza has been using the cloud with their drivatar system for the last few versions, to incorporate actual player behavior into their AI, and IMO it hasn't gone particularly well.

All the smashing and bashing, all the clowning around, lack of racecraft, etc...all gets incorporated, and you wind up with opponents that take all the worst aspects of what we all hate about online racing, and forces you to race against them offline. It even got so bad that Turn 10 had to implement an option to limit the AI's aggression just to make it playable.

I think the AI we currently have is a good start, we mainly just need them to be more consistent.

Flamaros
30-09-2017, 22:41
They DO, they want Ai coders. go for it! :)


The main issue is that I am not ready to leave France, plus even if I have experience in video games development AI isn't a subject on which I already had worked.
To tell the truth, I think that racing game are certainly one of the hardest game type to develop because of how much the game-play is depending of the physics and AI,... that if aren't perfectly tweaked can make a the game completely out of interest.
It is certainly pretty hard to work on the game type we prefer, as many developer I am already enough perfectionist ;)

Roger Prynne
30-09-2017, 22:53
The main issue is that I am not ready to leave France, plus even if I have experience in video games development AI isn't a subject on which I already had worked.
To tell the truth, I think that racing game are certainly one of the hardest game type to develop because of how much the game-play is depending of the physics and AI,... that if aren't perfectly tweaked can make a the game completely out of interest.
It is certainly pretty hard to work on the game type we prefer, as many developer I am already enough perfectionist ;)

You wouldn't have to, as most of the Devs work from home all over the world.

SaxonRaider
30-09-2017, 23:19
The main issue is that I am not ready to leave France, plus even if I have experience in video games development AI isn't a subject on which I already had worked.
To tell the truth, I think that racing game are certainly one of the hardest game type to develop because of how much the game-play is depending of the physics and AI,... that if aren't perfectly tweaked can make a the game completely out of interest.
It is certainly pretty hard to work on the game type we prefer, as many developer I am already enough perfectionist ;)

AI Game programming Wisdom - Steve Rabin - Charles river media Section 9 Racing and Sports AI. Pretty interesting read. I'm sure just the basics, but its explained well.

dazzer169
30-09-2017, 23:32
Please look at my new Post, where regardless of "personality" the CPU AI have set paths into the 1st corners........

Leper Messiah
01-10-2017, 08:22
I also think it would be a LOT easier to implement "personalities" with a fixed series, PCars (and many sims) simulate too much variety in vehicle types for this to work IMO. Does anyone know if the game supports multiple race lines? Does any game support multiple race lines (genuinely interested)? I really do think that SMS should also try to be genre leaders in the Ai side of things, really innovate and push the boundaries as much as they have with weather and livetrack.

I really do think "personalities" wuld take Ai to the next level, but we need to get the basics completely sorted first!

riverreveal
01-10-2017, 08:36
Different AI personalities/traits (varying aggressiveness, performance, start reaction times, consistency, stamina, etc.) are already in the game.

Are they fixed to each driver? So if driver X in one race has high aggression for example, will they have the same aggression stats whenever you race against them? Or does it change after the next race/series? If its fixed then its really good.

Leper Messiah
01-10-2017, 08:43
Different AI personalities/traits (varying aggressiveness, performance, start reaction times, consistency, stamina, etc.) are already in the game.

missed this! Good to know! :)

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 08:56
In all humility I disagree. If anything we've maybe given them a bit too much personality. We have a long set of personality attributes we give to each AI driver. Very varied and hopefully more 'human' than normal.

maTech
01-10-2017, 09:15
I have a question to this...Is it necessary for the ai to learn a track in practice and to develop their setup there or do they have a "perfect" setup at race start then?

I have to quote myself because I want to add something. It was a feature in another game where the ai learned a track in practice to get better laptimes. So my question refers to this. Ai strength >80% and ai has a better setup or >80% ai is able to learn and to develop a setup?

Raklodder
01-10-2017, 09:25
I know this may be a bit of topic, but I just had a long good laugh reading through the "scripted AI thread", which got closed for very good and obvious reasons.

Why would scripted AI be a problem (if there's even such a thing) I'm game if it works and honestly don't see the problem?

Anyway kudos for the quick hotfixes and I'm looking forward to future game updates.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 09:28
I know this may be a bit of topic, but I just had a long good laugh reading through the "scripted AI thread", which got closed for very good and obvious reasons.

Why would scripted AI be a problem (if there's even such a thing) I'm game if it works and honestly don't see the problem?

Anyway kudos for the quick hotfixes and I'm looking forward to future game updates.

Indeed, and I think I made that point. If we could script AI, and they were awesome, we'd script AI...