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View Full Version : CPU AI on the 1st corner is so very Scripted, blatant results from testing......



dazzer169
30-09-2017, 22:53
I've not had the chance to check out other threads/posts re: AI as yet, and I love that WMD have always got AI as an important thing to keep improving.


I tested Silverstone, with a Same Class set of cars, where I literally quit and go to pits and do a monitor (I am really into AI and how they react with each other......), and after a few minutes, quit the race and watch the replay.

What happened was that on the first corner, a car got flipped by another that had no choice but to hit him, and the physics played out where some cars behind did or did not drive into the carnage.

I then repeated the same test, being the CPU AI nut that I am, and noticed that EVERY SINGLE TIME that I started the same race with the same cars, the same car got flipped by the same "other car", although each time I noticed different physics were applied to the resultant crash, and sometimes other cars were involved, sometimes not.

On each crash, as we all know, the visuals were IMMENSE and so lifelike, but hold on a minute, surely this cannot be "AI" involved if this happens EVERY time with the SAME two cars. "Scripted" is the word for this first corner then...

I am VERY WORRIED though, that a first corner like this, regardless of the AI being "improved to enhance the line they take", can end up with exactly the same two cars doing exactly the same thing to each other, on subsequent occasions............I did this Silverstone test on 8 consequetive tests and got very bored so heaven knows what would have happened on the..........................9th attempt.

Those same cars hit each other with albeit subtlety different outcomes each time but the "way" the car hit the other car initially, each time, was always the same.

The only thing that made me feel better about witnessing it was the organicness of the resultant collision and how it affected the other cars coming from behind, so at least each time the race would play out differently from that moment onwards.

The trouble is.............that what I witnessed (and I have seen the same at most other tracks with different car sets involved) means that its painfully obvious that there is SCRIPTING for CPU cars up to the first corner in this game, we only have to witness the identical behaviour of each CPU cars as they approach these first corners.

So why on earth this game has these scripted starts that are always the same is beyond me, I think most gamers wont notice this as they are actually playing the game.

Not me though.............so I suggest others test what I have mentioned above............


Other than that though, I don't see any AI scripting anywhere else in the game in relation to the CPU cars AI, and I must say that all my above tests were done not in VR mode.


However, owning Vive and Rift, I have happily found an amazing visual quality on the Rift (very poor on Vive but maybe thats my Vive settings), I set the resolution to 4k 3840 x 2160, set everything to Ultra or High, and in the HMD it is absolutely awe-inspiring!!

I would also like to add that generally, if it wasn't for the 1st corner scripting, I am so very impressed with PCars2 as a whole and can see genuine AI in action as each race progresses, and the above mentioned VR visual quality on my Oculus Rift is astounding, so my post is not all negative!!!!!!!

Ian Bell
30-09-2017, 23:58
I've not had the chance to check out other threads/posts re: AI as yet, and I love that WMD have always got AI as an important thing to keep improving.


I tested Silverstone, with a Same Class set of cars, where I literally quit and go to pits and do a monitor (I am really into AI and how they react with each other......), and after a few minutes, quit the race and watch the replay.

What happened was that on the first corner, a car got flipped by another that had no choice but to hit him, and the physics played out where some cars behind did or did not drive into the carnage.

I then repeated the same test, being the CPU AI nut that I am, and noticed that EVERY SINGLE TIME that I started the same race with the same cars, the same car got flipped by the same "other car", although each time I noticed different physics were applied to the resultant crash, and sometimes other cars were involved, sometimes not.

On each crash, as we all know, the visuals were IMMENSE and so lifelike, but hold on a minute, surely this cannot be "AI" involved if this happens EVERY time with the SAME two cars. "Scripted" is the word for this first corner then...

I am VERY WORRIED though, that a first corner like this, regardless of the AI being "improved to enhance the line they take", can end up with exactly the same two cars doing exactly the same thing to each other, on subsequent occasions............I did this Silverstone test on 8 consequetive tests and got very bored so heaven knows what would have happened on the..........................9th attempt.

Those same cars hit each other with albeit subtlety different outcomes each time but the "way" the car hit the other car initially, each time, was always the same.

The only thing that made me feel better about witnessing it was the organicness of the resultant collision and how it affected the other cars coming from behind, so at least each time the race would play out differently from that moment onwards.

The trouble is.............that what I witnessed (and I have seen the same at most other tracks with different car sets involved) means that its painfully obvious that there is SCRIPTING for CPU cars up to the first corner in this game, we only have to witness the identical behaviour of each CPU cars as they approach these first corners.

So why on earth this game has these scripted starts that are always the same is beyond me, I think most gamers wont notice this as they are actually playing the game.

Not me though.............so I suggest others test what I have mentioned above............


Other than that though, I don't see any AI scripting anywhere else in the game in relation to the CPU cars AI, and I must say that all my above tests were done not in VR mode.


However, owning Vive and Rift, I have happily found an amazing visual quality on the Rift (very poor on Vive but maybe thats my Vive settings), I set the resolution to 4k 3840 x 2160, set everything to Ultra or High, and in the HMD it is absolutely awe-inspiring!!

I would also like to add that generally, if it wasn't for the 1st corner scripting, I am so very impressed with PCars2 as a whole and can see genuine AI in action as each race progresses, and the above mentioned VR visual quality on my Oculus Rift is astounding, so my post is not all negative!!!!!!!

There's absolutely zero AI scripting.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:06
Zero AI Scripting? How the hell do you explain what I have witnessed then?????? I can put together a video showing exactly what I mean.

If its not scripting as to the thinking of the AI, then how do you explain the exact same TWO CARS hitting each on the SAME ANGLE (give or take a few degrees difference each time being as the crash resulting from it ends up with differing follow up shunts).

It happens with most Cars I have tested it with, the clear thing here is that the coders dont expect a CPU AI examination from the likes of me.

I still love the game, as you will read in my initial post at the end, but this scripting is horrendously blatant and there is no hiding place I am afraid.

If you now tell me its not AI scripting in terms of behaviour but more possibly related to AI lines they drive on certain circuits, then I'm sorry, but even to have the AI driving those "lines", on average, will mean that behaviour on certain corners will be the same each time

RacingTopsy
01-10-2017, 00:09
Please calm down and maybe show us a video of it? Can't say I've noticed anything like that myself.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:11
AI decision making as they drive along the 1st straight, to the 1st corner, would mean organic and varied outcomes on the 1st corner, some crashes maybe, some shunts, some clean corners.

But to have the same 2 Car hitting each other each time, 8 times on the spin, means there is Scripting.

Or.................................possibly the AI decisions are already lined up and in place as each race starts, so therefore if I keep repeating a "restart race" for the same line up, and race, and see the same lines driven and the same angle of initial crash, then clearly this must be the case. i.e. every race start already has the AI logic in terms of decision making stored and ready to play out. IF......this is the case, I can handle that as at least it would mean a completely fresh race would mean we have a new, organically created race start.

But.........to have 8 consequetive race starts via "restart race" have the same crash on the 1st corner,, is a bit scripted!

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:15
i'm all calm here and as I've said i still love this new game aside from its blatant 1st corners, and yes, i will compile a video, which i look forward to doing for this forum, to show this repeat AI "same" behaviour.


I think that the latter thought on my last post is probably the case, whereby its coded to have the AI start the race with the same "routes" across the track and with the restart option being used the same routes get re-used each time until the whole race is setup a fresh.


Will try and upload this in the next few days.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 00:25
Zero AI Scripting? How the hell do you explain what I have witnessed then?????? I can put together a video showing exactly what I mean.

If its not scripting as to the thinking of the AI, then how do you explain the exact same TWO CARS hitting each on the SAME ANGLE (give or take a few degrees difference each time being as the crash resulting from it ends up with differing follow up shunts).

It happens with most Cars I have tested it with, the clear thing here is that the coders dont expect a CPU AI examination from the likes of me.

I still love the game, as you will read in my initial post at the end, but this scripting is horrendously blatant and there is no hiding place I am afraid.

If you now tell me its not AI scripting in terms of behaviour but more possibly related to AI lines they drive on certain circuits, then I'm sorry, but even to have the AI driving those "lines", on average, will mean that behaviour on certain corners will be the same each time

I don't 'how to hell' need to explain anything, I know the code. There's no scripting :) And I'm not trying to hide :)

If anyone can show me 3 starts where the AI behave identically in the first corner I'll give them 1k tomorrow. :)

URGENT EDIT, Don't stick one car on and record it 3 times! :) Phew...

Trippul G
01-10-2017, 00:26
I'm no programmer, but I have dabbled with a bit of code here and there as required during my years as a vfx artist. What is AI but a series of instructions, telling an entity or entities how to react to various situations? So all AI is technically "scripted" if you think of it that way. Generally if you apply the same set of rules to the same set of subjects in the same circumstances, you're going to get the same results, varying according to how much of a random seed you've added. I don't presume to know how things work under the hood with the AI here, but it seems to me like there maybe is a random seed value somewhere that needs to be given more weight.

Or maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about, and should shut my cake hole and go back to playing parts of the game I enjoy, while giving SMS the benefit of the doubt and patiently waiting for a patch. Hmm...yeah, that sounds like a good idea. :untroubled:

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 00:29
Think about it logically. Scripting would work under a limited set of circumstances, say one set of cars which we know are all in a certain place on a certain track at start time. But we have 190 cars, all of varied classes and an almost infinite amount of variation in the mix of those cars, multiplied by the amount of layouts (140) multiplied by the amount of fuel, multiplied by the surface conditions, the starting tyres, etc etc. That would be roughly 87 trillion scripts so far...

You can't 'script' in the normal sense with that much variation.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:44
Think about it logically. Scripting would work under a limited set of circumstances, say one set of cars which we know are all in a certain place on a certain track at start time. But we have 190 cars, all of varied classes and an almost infinite amount of variation in the mix of those cars, multiplied by the amount of layouts (140) multiplied by the amount of fuel, multiplied by the surface conditions, the starting tyres, etc etc. That would be roughly 87 trillion scripts so far...

You can't 'script' in the normal sense with that much variation.





I've just checked back to see which Car and class I was using earlier that first showed me the scripting, and its the Radical SR3-RS, on the Silverstone Track. I just ran the tests again and found that for 3 races on the spin, the same two cars had the same crash on the first bend, and as I said above, the realistic PCars 2 physics took over and gave me differing after effects in terms of the resultant crash, and that's not being sarcastic, I love the physics this time around.

The main thing though is that the same crash instance, with the same two cars again, happens every time, so for anyone who is wondering what an earth this idiot (me, and yes, I said it first!!) is on about , then please start a race, then quit to the Pits, and then choose monitor the race.

Watch for around 60 seconds.

Now exit out and run a replay to the 1st corner, and watch the chaos in terms of two cars kicking it off. Then repeat the steps (do a "restart race", don't setup a whole new race, it has to be a "restart race") and compare the catalysts to each crash. It MUST be what I said above, whereby the AI already have a set initial path into each corner (and therefore repeated if "restart race" is chosen) and I am cool with that, as I know for sure that as the AI reach the next corner the real AI kick in. Also I noticed that a whole new race gives a different set of "two cars" that kick off the first crash...


I will still upload a back to back to back to back video of each retstarted race, but for now, anyone wanting to disprove what i have found can see for themselves.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 00:46
I've just checked back to see which Car and class I was using earlier that first showed me the scripting, and its the Radical SR3-RS, on the Silverstone Track. I just ran the tests again and found that for 3 races on the spin, the same two cars had the same crash on the first bend, and as I said above, the realistic PCars 2 physics took over and gave me differing after effects in terms of the resultant crash, and that's not being sarcastic, I love the physics this time around.

The main thing though is that the same crash instance, with the same two cars again, happens every time, so for anyone who is wondering what an earth this idiot (me, and yes, I said it first!!) is on about , then please start a race, then quit to the Pits, and then choose monitor the race.

Watch for around 60 seconds.

Now exit out and run a replay to the 1st corner, and watch the chaos in terms of two cars kicking it off. Then repeat the steps (do a "restart race", don't setup a whole new race, it has to be a "restart race") and compare the catalysts to each crash. It MUST be what I said above, whereby the AI already have a set initial path into each corner (and therefore repeated if "restart race" is chosen) and I am cool with that, as I know for sure that as the AI reach the next corner the real AI kick in. Also I noticed that a whole new race gives a different set of "two cars" that kick off the first crash...


I will still upload a back to back to back to back video of each retstarted race, but for now, anyone wanting to disprove what i have found can see for themselves.

I've just ran a back to back test. Loads of variation into and out of the first corner. You may have spotted a coincidence...

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:55
How much variation though Ian?


I look forward to uploading a sequence showing just those 1st corners, each of which will have them same cars crashing into each other in the same way without being EXACTLY the same outcome after the crash itself has happened.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 00:56
How much variation though Ian?


I look forward to uploading a sequence showing just those 1st corners, each of which will have them same cars crashing into each other in the same way without being EXACTLY the same outcome after the crash itself has happened.

The amount of variation you'd expect if things weren't scripted :)

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:57
I don't 'how to hell' need to explain anything, I know the code. There's no scripting :) And I'm not trying to hide :)

If anyone can show me 3 starts where the AI behave identically in the first corner I'll give them 1k tomorrow. :)

URGENT EDIT, Don't stick one car on and record it 3 times! :) Phew...



Ian, I look forward to my £1000 then as I have this 100% happening at this end.




Give me 24 hours!!!

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 00:59
The amount of variation you'd expect if things weren't scripted :)



Aha, and now you say "The amount of variation you'd expect if things weren't scripted", which I already have stated. The same cars crash into each other, and the outcome differs, which is what we ALL WANT....................but you, Ian, are saying that the same two cars crashing into each other within the same "restart race" session is not possible.


Hmmm, I'm just wondering what to spend that £1000 on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trippul G
01-10-2017, 01:01
Ian, I look forward to my £1000 then as I have this 100% happening at this end.




Give me 24 hours!!!

For the record, he only said he was offering "1k". He didn't say a thousand what.

ELAhrairah
01-10-2017, 01:02
For the record, he only said he was offering "1k". He didn't say a thousand what.

I believe he ment 1k in WoW gold.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 01:03
and for the record I am fully behind the PCars2 project, but for Ian Bell, who I believe is quite high up in the hierachy (never could spell that...) of the WMD team, to dismiss what I have blatantly noticed on these 1st corners, is a bit shocking, and I cannot wait to upload my videos tomorrow, because its going to be very hard indeed for me to fake these videos.


If i was rich man...............

Trippul G
01-10-2017, 01:04
I believe he ment 1k in WoW gold.

Here's your 1k:

k.

Congratulations! :D

ELAhrairah
01-10-2017, 01:05
I'm no programmer, but I have dabbled with a bit of code here and there as required during my years as a vfx artist. What is AI but a series of instructions, telling an entity or entities how to react to various situations? So all AI is technically "scripted" if you think of it that way. Generally if you apply the same set of rules to the same set of subjects in the same circumstances, you're going to get the same results, varying according to how much of a random seed you've added. I don't presume to know how things work under the hood with the AI here, but it seems to me like there maybe is a random seed value somewhere that needs to be given more weight.

Or maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about, and should shut my cake hole and go back to playing parts of the game I enjoy, while giving SMS the benefit of the doubt and patiently waiting for a patch. Hmm...yeah, that sounds like a good idea. :untroubled:

Exactly. It only happens when he restarts a race from the complete beginning

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 01:07
and for the record I am fully behind the PCars2 project, but for Ian Bell, who I believe is quite high up in the hierachy (never could spell that...) of the WMD team, to dismiss what I have blatantly noticed on these 1st corners, is a bit shocking, and I cannot wait to upload my videos tomorrow, because its going to be very hard indeed for me to fake these videos.


If i was rich man...............


I would be happy with 1000 whips of my red raw $$$$ if I am proven wrong, but tomorrow night, I shall prove what I've said already. I guess with most people just playing the game they cant have noticed this, but what I have found, and for Ian Bell to tell me its not true......................is quite remarkable, and not helping the community surely.


Look, I love AI, and I know how amazing it is these days in most games, I cannot stand multiplayer gaming so AI is important to me as its so hard to implement, but lets not tell porkies over something that a paying customer has noticed.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 01:16
As posted by Ian Bell to me earlier.......................:- "URGENT EDIT, Don't stick one car on and record it 3 times! Phew..."


Ian, before I compile the video, can you confirm if what you are saying here relates to the fact that you already know that doing "restart race" 8 times in succession, with the same race setup, would "clearly mean we would expect the AI to take the same route through the first corner"?



Surely.........even doing a restart race, where all Cars stand still and the race then starts.........it should/would mean that all the Cars in the race, as soon as the Race starts, start "thinking", choosing routes on the track, "looking to take advantage", looking at the other Cars and examining where to overtake, where to move alongside, where to this that and the other...........

Unless of course it is all predetermined in your hidden scripting for the 1st corner, because if so, WMD are going to be very very embarrassed indeed when I start to upload my 1st corner videos tomorrow because there is a massive blatantness about how the CPU Cars drive more or less indentically each time to the extent that its always the same two cars causing that crash.....................

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 01:25
Exactly. It only happens when he restarts a race from the complete beginning


Nah, not the complete beginning mate, but by choosing "restart race" and comparing the outcome, its known as CPU AI testing the code.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 01:34
and for the record I am fully behind the PCars2 project, but for Ian Bell, who I believe is quite high up in the hierachy (never could spell that...) of the WMD team, to dismiss what I have blatantly noticed on these 1st corners, is a bit shocking, and I cannot wait to upload my videos tomorrow, because its going to be very hard indeed for me to fake these videos.


If i was rich man...............

Excuse me mate, I'm not 'blatantly dismissing what you say' in any 'shocking' manner. I'm telling you there is no scripting! I have literally not said anything else of import. There is nothing to dismiss, I'm giving you facts :)

I own the company BTW, I'm the CEO.

t0daY
01-10-2017, 01:35
As posted by Ian Bell to me earlier.......................:- "URGENT EDIT, Don't stick one car on and record it 3 times! Phew..."


Ian, before I compile the video, can you confirm if what you are saying here relates to the fact that you already know that doing "restart race" 8 times in succession, with the same race setup, would "clearly mean we would expect the AI to take the same route through the first corner"?



Surely.........even doing a restart race, where all Cars stand still and the race then starts.........it should/would mean that all the Cars in the race, as soon as the Race starts, start "thinking", choosing routes on the track, "looking to take advantage", looking at the other Cars and examining where to overtake, where to move alongside, where to this that and the other...........

Unless of course it is all predetermined in your hidden scripting for the 1st corner, because if so, WMD are going to be very very embarrassed indeed when I start to upload my 1st corner videos tomorrow because there is a massive blatantness about how the CPU Cars drive more or less indentically each time to the extent that its always the same two cars causing that crash.....................

I do not think we will be embarrased. You have really nothing better to do or? Jesus Christ...

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 01:35
As posted by Ian Bell to me earlier.......................:- "URGENT EDIT, Don't stick one car on and record it 3 times! Phew..."


Ian, before I compile the video, can you confirm if what you are saying here relates to the fact that you already know that doing "restart race" 8 times in succession, with the same race setup, would "clearly mean we would expect the AI to take the same route through the first corner"?



Surely.........even doing a restart race, where all Cars stand still and the race then starts.........it should/would mean that all the Cars in the race, as soon as the Race starts, start "thinking", choosing routes on the track, "looking to take advantage", looking at the other Cars and examining where to overtake, where to move alongside, where to this that and the other...........

Unless of course it is all predetermined in your hidden scripting for the 1st corner, because if so, WMD are going to be very very embarrassed indeed when I start to upload my 1st corner videos tomorrow because there is a massive blatantness about how the CPU Cars drive more or less indentically each time to the extent that its always the same two cars causing that crash.....................

You're starting to get on my wits now.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 01:39
I would be happy with 1000 whips of my red raw $$$$ if I am proven wrong, but tomorrow night, I shall prove what I've said already. I guess with most people just playing the game they cant have noticed this, but what I have found, and for Ian Bell to tell me its not true......................is quite remarkable, and not helping the community surely.


Look, I love AI, and I know how amazing it is these days in most games, I cannot stand multiplayer gaming so AI is important to me as its so hard to implement, but lets not tell porkies over something that a paying customer has noticed.

OK, we started off nicely but I'm losing it with your attitude now. There no need for that.

You do realise that anyone can go test this in 5 minutes? Cut the accusatory tone, don't accuse me of being a liar, don't tell me 'I'm not helping the community'. I've done nothing but tell you the facts.

PS, if there were scripting in the first corner I'd tell you so, it's nothing to be embarrassed about! It's just another solution to a problem...

ELAhrairah
01-10-2017, 01:44
Nah, not the complete beginning mate, but by choosing "restart race" and comparing the outcome, its known as CPU AI testing the code.

Iíve started many races and Iíve restarted some of them too but I havenít seen it.

Purg
01-10-2017, 02:09
What strikes me as odd, why would SMS script a crash at the first corner?!

I just got back from trying Silverstone with Ginetta Jr's, no cars flipped or crashed..? Tried it again, no crashes again. Oh no, scripted!! :p

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 02:52
OK, we started off nicely but I'm losing it with your attitude now. There no need for that.

You do realise that anyone can go test this in 5 minutes? Cut the accusatory tone, don't accuse me of being a liar, don't tell me 'I'm not helping the community'. I've done nothing but tell you the facts.

PS, if there were scripting in the first corner I'd tell you so, it's nothing to be embarrassed about! It's just another solution to a problem...



Sorry Ian, I shouldn't have worded it quite like that, but since I started bringing the subject up, I was the one getting the sarcastic comments back first, so its a bit ironic that I am being brought up on this as I am only trying to point out things that "repeat" clearly in the game, but of course only for those like me who look at CPU AI and don't get obsessed with having to beat track times as per most people. i.e I might even be able to help you guys make the AI better on them 1st corners, anything is better than it being driven by a script...


Okay, lets hit the reset button, and wait till I send up the proof video tomorrow of consecutive same events happening on an individual given corner, all day today I have been noticing this so if anyone involved in coding PCars 1 or PCars 2 is unaware of this scripting (lets re-word that, it might not be scripting, it might well be "definitive paths that AI follow in the first corner", and if so that understandable, not that Ian Bell has mentioned that so far.................), then they will be now.


To say I was astounded by the samey time after time 1st corner crash earlier is an understatement, but it happened, on 8 consecutive races.


IF..............as I asked Ian Bell earlier, the game's AI for the start of the race up to the 1st corner is predetermined, hence what I have witnessed so far with multpile replays proving that I haven't gone completely Slur Alex Ferguson, then so be it, its the way this game has now been coded, but if not, then I have news for WMD, my videos will prove you have something in the game, something quite bloody important in fact, that you are saying is not in the game.

I was one of the funders for PCars 1, and havent funded PCars 2, but thats irrevelant, funds or no funds I want you guys to do well with the model you have chosen to progress to this stage, so please lets not start knocking someone who has taken time to find something very odd and what still appears to be blatant in your coding.

I wont comment now until I have provided a link to the video, I hope to have a link to it by tomorrow at some stage, it will be encoded on a 4K Extreme BlackMagic Unit, possibily downsampled to 1080/720.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:02
Okay its hit me that Ian is the CEO, I do recall Ian's comments in the halycon days of pre-release Project Cars "1", I was one of the early funders, so its nice to know I am in direct contact with Ian.

Ian mentioning that he would give me 1K or whatever the prize was if I prove what I have been saying was clearly in jest, but I'm sorry, Ian came across earlier as being someone fending off criticisum off a game he was related to, and now its hit me that he is THE Ian Bell, the CEO, I am not embarrassed to say that I will still create this video, because surely Ian, you have seen these 1st corner happenings???

Do you just play your own game or also get involved in coding it??? I do realise how much coding goes into this, the amount of layers of physics, graphical and AI coding all neediing to be balanced.


Its f**kig amazing overall Ian, the visuals and AI overall are now out of this world especially now the VR implementation, but please dont dismiss my facts which I will now prove about them 1st corners, maybe your coders have kept that from you mate.



Over to tomorrow and my uploaded, or a link to, my video proof, anyway, onwards and upwards to PCars 3 guys...........

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 03:16
Sorry Ian, I shouldn't have worded it quite like that, but since I started bringing the subject up, I was the one getting the sarcastic comments back first, so its a bit ironic that I am being brought up on this as I am only trying to point out things that "repeat" clearly in the game, but of course only for those like me who look at CPU AI and don't get obsessed with having to beat track times as per most people. i.e I might even be able to help you guys make the AI better on them 1st corners, anything is better than it being driven by a script...


Okay, lets hit the reset button, and wait till I send up the proof video tomorrow of consecutive same events happening on an individual given corner, all day today I have been noticing this so if anyone involved in coding PCars 1 or PCars 2 is unaware of this scripting (lets re-word that, it might not be scripting, it might well be "definitive paths that AI follow in the first corner", and if so that understandable, not that Ian Bell has mentioned that so far.................), then they will be now.


To say I was astounded by the samey time after time 1st corner crash earlier is an understatement, but it happened, on 8 consecutive races.


IF..............as I asked Ian Bell earlier, the game's AI for the start of the race up to the 1st corner is predetermined, hence what I have witnessed so far with multpile replays proving that I haven't gone completely Slur Alex Ferguson, then so be it, its the way this game has now been coded, but if not, then I have news for WMD, my videos will prove you have something in the game, something quite bloody important in fact, that you are saying is not in the game.

I was one of the funders for PCars 1, and havent funded PCars 2, but thats irrevelant, funds or no funds I want you guys to do well with the model you have chosen to progress to this stage, so please lets not start knocking someone who has taken time to find something very odd and what still appears to be blatant in your coding.

I wont comment now until I have provided a link to the video, I hope to have a link to it by tomorrow at some stage, it will be encoded on a 4K Extreme BlackMagic Unit, possibily downsampled to 1080/720.

Please list one sarcastic comment you've received.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:17
One more thing, not wishing to sound too much like Columbo, is that the CEO or Project Cars told me earlier:-


" I know the code. There's no scripting"


Well I'm sorry but as from tomorrow that will be proven to be...............unless as I asked earlier, to no response, as to what WMD consider to be "scripting", my repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat video of the same crash will be proof, tomorrow, sadly that this is indeed not true, unless an explanation of what "scripting" boundaries are being considered here...not sure how many times I can ask the same question in the earlier posts

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 03:18
Okay its hit me that Ian is the CEO, I do recall Ian's comments in the halycon days of pre-release Project Cars "1", I was one of the early funders, so its nice to know I am in direct contact with Ian.

Ian mentioning that he would give me 1K or whatever the prize was if I prove what I have been saying was clearly in jest, but I'm sorry, Ian came across earlier as being someone fending off criticisum off a game he was related to, and now its hit me that he is THE Ian Bell, the CEO, I am not embarrassed to say that I will still create this video, because surely Ian, you have seen these 1st corner happenings???

Do you just play your own game or also get involved in coding it??? I do realise how much coding goes into this, the amount of layers of physics, graphical and AI coding all neediing to be balanced.


Its f**kig amazing overall Ian, the visuals and AI overall are now out of this world especially now the VR implementation, but please dont dismiss my facts which I will now prove about them 1st corners, maybe your coders have kept that from you mate.



Over to tomorrow and my uploaded, or a link to, my video proof, anyway, onwards and upwards to PCars 3 guys...........

Whatever I see in the opening corner I KNOW isn't scripted, is the whole point :) Now I'll take your reset and let's move on. I've ran 8 back to back starts now just to test my sanity and they're all different.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 03:19
One more thing, not wishing to sound too much like Columbo, is that the CEO or Project Cars told me earlier:-


" I know the code. There's no scripting"


Well I'm sorry but as from tomorrow that will be proven to be...............unless as I asked earlier, to no response, as to what WMD consider to be "scripting", my repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat video of the same crash will be proof, tomorrow, sadly that this is indeed not true, unless an explanation of what "scripting" boundaries are being considered here...not sure how many times I can ask the same question in the earlier posts

Look, I respect your tenacity dazzer. You might have seen a coincidence as I mentioned earlier. But you must be aware that anyone can test this in 3 minutes.

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:23
If 8 repeat crashes the same happened, and then I reset the whole race, giving me a different starting line up, then had its own 1st corner samey crash with its own "unique" two cars that crash into each other, then I must have a different game to you Ian.


I have been testing PCARS 2, which game are you testing?


I keep coming back on here for some reason tonight and it isnt helping you or I Ian, or PCARS 2 (well I hope to help you guys rid the AI coding afterwards to be honest), so this is a 1000% I'm off to bed and will create a video tomorrow of my findings.

Nitey nite!

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 03:24
If 8 repeat crashes the same happened, and then I reset the whole race, giving me a different starting line up, then had its own 1st corner samey crash with its own "unique" two cars that crash into each other, then I must have a different game to you Ian.


I have been testing PCARS 2, which game are you testing?


I keep coming back on here for some reason tonight and it isnt helping you or I Ian, or PCARS 2 (well I hope to help you guys rid the AI coding afterwards to be honest), so this is a 1000% I'm off to bed and will create a video tomorrow of my findings.

Nitey nite!

Videos with proof or anyone else agreeing with you otherwise, as we were :)

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:26
3 MINUTES??????? PLease do not take the piss Ian, I know you are speaking out loud to your cronies here but I spent all day yesterday testing this f*kig thing and have given you lot £36.99 or whatever it was, AND still love the bloody game, but please don't act like a f**king sales manager here with this manner of yours, 3 minutes my arse.

Btw do you also realise your replay system is so knackered that when I recorded 6 or 7 on the spin replays of those races, that when playing them back some of them crash and hang?

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:28
i am trying to help out here for out techy guys, not for you CEO's ( i know many CEO's are there from the start and are coders themselves etc etc, but the 3 mins thing has really got my goat here now)

Morgan Henstridge
01-10-2017, 03:31
3 MINUTES??????? PLease do not take the piss Ian, I know you are speaking out loud to your cronies here but I spent all day yesterday testing this f*kig thing and have given you lot £36.99 or whatever it was, AND still love the bloody game, but please don't act like a f**king sales manager here with this manner of yours, 3 minutes my arse.


How long should it take then to restart a race and watch the AI until the first corner??

dazzer169
01-10-2017, 03:31
its not tenacity, its bloody simly, 8n times on the trot at silversone with the same class of 15 cars, the same two cars hit each other each time, i then moved into another track, cannot recall which, and the same thing happened there albeit differtent track/cars, and different crasjh..................but "restarting race" ing it for each track gave the same 1st corner crash each time................and now I think even the CEOmight start to question his own product after the 3 minutes comment....goodnght, look forward to helping you guys with my videos tmrw, apologires if i got angry but the CEO does have his peronsality it appears.

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 03:32
3 MINUTES??????? PLease do not take the piss Ian, I know you are speaking out loud to your cronies here but I spent all day yesterday testing this f*kig thing and have given you lot £36.99 or whatever it was, AND still love the bloody game, but please don't act like a f**king sales manager here with this manner of yours, 3 minutes my arse.

Btw do you also realise your replay system is so knackered that when I recorded 6 or 7 on the spin replays of those races, that when playing them back some of them crash and hang?

I'm not your punch bag mate. You're done here.

Roger Prynne
01-10-2017, 09:06
Phew!! I'm drained after reading all that :numbness:

Ian Bell
01-10-2017, 09:09
Phew!! I'm drained after reading all that :numbness:

It's one to keep for the archives. As from the off I felt he believed his point and I wanted to enlighten him. Yet...

Roger Prynne
01-10-2017, 09:16
I'm surprised you kept your cool as long as you did to be honest.