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Koza_Nostra
01-10-2017, 15:16
Hi guys. I'm having real difficulty controlling this car coming into the corners. The back end keeps stepping out/oversteering, it's almost undrivable, feels very nervous all the time. This car was a lot of fun in PC1, but it acts strange in PC2. I tried few little things with the setup, but still had no luck. Am I the only one or is anyone else having this issue? Any advice on the setup?

Thanks

major sunscreen
01-10-2017, 15:20
I'm doing the exact same thing.Really softening rear dampers and increasing rear toe, also increase front left tyre pressure slightly and reduce rear tyre pressure slightly and tweaking the off throttle diff has softened the violence of it. Otherwise I read this of a racing website..most of which can't be adjusted in the Clio..
Driving
lift off the brake more carefully at the end of the braking zone
apply less steering at corner entry
brake earlier and accelerate earlier
no tail-braking, brake in a straight line
apply a bit of throttle while going off the brakes to stabilise the rear
Setup
raise rear wing
reduce front camber
increase front springs / lower rear's
increase front dampers / lower rear's
try the 'first-' dampers first, they have a smaller effect on handling than the 'bound' and 'rebound' dampers
apply more positive toe at the rear - be careful, the car will understeer more
reduce value of the acceleration differential ('diff power')
increase braking differential ('diff coast')
put more brake bias to the front
increase ARB in the front / reduce at the rear

Koza_Nostra
01-10-2017, 15:37
Thanks, man. When it comes to driving it, I do most of the things that you mentioned, no trail-braking, really gentle with the way I let off the throttle, braking in a straight line, but just feels like it can be improved. Even at slower speed it behaves a bit unrealeasting in some cases, like the rear wheels are on ice or something. I will try and play around more with the setup.

major sunscreen
01-10-2017, 15:40
I'm going to experiment with the off throttle diff a bit. If I have a Eureka moment I'll let u know..

major sunscreen
01-10-2017, 16:05
So.. off throttle diff didn't really work as I thought it might and I think it's because the race I'm doing (Brands Hatch Indy) hasn't really got any off throttle corners as such. So I wondered if the power ramp diff might be the solution. And it kind of is but not in a more pace kind of way but rather in a I'm much more comfortable ragging this car way. I increased it to 88 degrees and found that with about 50-70 % power you can really balance the car. I had it on 2 wheels going through turn 1 on the throttle ( I poop you not) but if you mash the power it'll just understeer off the exit so it's a bit of a balance. Biggest impact for me is the dampers.. it's impossible to eradicate the oversteer for me but it's massively controllable now. As an aside on the same lap as I did the two wheel job at turn one, exited turn 2 and there's a three car pile up at turn 3. Even my wife has started watching over my shoulder..if anyone else has a good clito setup/solution please share it!

fishaac
01-10-2017, 16:25
Im currently playing clio cup in career but im stuck and can't progess because of the insane snap oversteer on this thing. Is this because of the issues with FFB on xb1? Or is there something else I can try?

I started in the ginetta juniors which felt good and i had some cracking races , but the clio...oddly it seems to perform much better with all terrain tyres, but then I'm miles off the pace with everyone else running slicks.

Appreciate any advice

DozUK
01-10-2017, 16:25
The rear wheels don't heat up, they stay cold so first of all lower the pressures of the rear tyres. They will then heat up and stick more. I spoke to the tuning engineer and told him that under braking I slid from the back. He changed the braking balance. This worked great for Me, after a few laps all tyres are green, the track rubbers and the car is stable. Also change from authentic to assists on, the remove as you get used to it. I find it best with no stability, low traction and and high

Mad Al
01-10-2017, 16:27
Yep, run the rears flat and move the brake balance forward... once you get some heat in the rears they should stop coming around on you

theredeye_uk
01-10-2017, 16:40
I had the same issues too, especially mid corner once I was about to apex. The car stepped out every time. My cure was:

1) significantly decrease rear tyre pressure so they they run between 30-32 psi after 1 lap
2) soften rear suspension, I took it down by about 30% from default.
3) Adjust brake balance to 65% front in dry and 52% front in wet
4) brake before turning and then apply mid level throttle as you approach the apex. This stabilises the car around nicely.

Now the car is huge fun to drive in races. You still have to pay attention and drive it a certain way but it no longer felt unfair

Diluvian
01-10-2017, 16:45
Regarding the overrotation issue there is an easy fix but I don't really get why this works, maybe the car is bugged.

The lower the POWER RAMP angle the more rotation even without putting in throttle. So to fix the issue go to differential setup:

- Lower preload (i set to 0)
- Power Ramp to high values

And the car behaves more realistic (imo) and predictable :) - Let me know if that works for you chaps.

rosko
01-10-2017, 16:50
is there a track or corner where this is really bad? i didn't notice anything my self but in pcars 1 i really struggled.

fishaac
01-10-2017, 17:28
Turns 1 and 4 at brands hatch short, have to really tippy toe my way around those

Koza_Nostra
01-10-2017, 17:42
Thanks for your input guys, a lot of good advice here! I will give all of these a go and see what works. I've already have lowered pressure on rear tires and will try other things that people suggested. Once you get this car setup it's such a fun to race around UK tracks :)


Turns 1 and 4 at brands hatch short, have to really tippy toe my way around those

Same here, exactly same turns that I was having this issue.

major sunscreen
01-10-2017, 18:10
I'm on race two now in the clio and murdering the competition in the wet by 7 secs a lap. Then it dries out and I'm back to fighting on equal terms. Had my difficulty at 81% since day 1 to take advantage of the 'intelligent ai' that changes setup past 80% I read about elsewhere, and tbh thats as good as i can be. Now I know I'm not that good in the wet to be 7 secs a lap up so that might have to be looked at. If someone knows where to post it feel free for a cut and paste. I'm a bit busy at the moment..!

rosko
01-10-2017, 20:34
Turns 1 and 4 at brands hatch short, have to really tippy toe my way around those

just had a drive imo the handling is good, but it does require some balancing on faster corners. You can probably reduce this by increasing the rake, try lowing the front to do this, also stiffen the front.

Moonfast
01-10-2017, 20:38
I had the same problem until I really focused on driving smooth and really use all of the road available. And I love what SMS have done with the controll in PC2 where you can catch the slides much much easier than in PC1!

fishaac
01-10-2017, 22:20
Im sure it's associated with the knackered FFB on xbox, just tried everything suggested and its still happening,

(39 yrs old been sim racing for yrs just for some perspective)

rosko
02-10-2017, 00:06
What are the other cars like? For me there are much more tricky cars to tame.

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 00:32
Hit the throttle when it oversteers.

Counter-intuitive, but that's how you're supposed to drive them. Let the back end round to turn the car. When it's pointing about the right direction, hit the throttle and he front tires will pull it straight.

z3r0cool77
02-10-2017, 01:22
Has nothing to do w ffb or tire temps. 99% of oversteer on the clio is weight transfer.
Step 1: brake early and gradually apply power as you turn in. Almost never should you be braking or coasting on turn in (unless its uphill which naturally shifts the weight onto the rear tires)
Step 2: slightly stiffen the front to reduce forward body movement.
Step 3: lower the rear in relation to the front. Also reduces weight transfer.
Step 4: increase ratio for coast on the geared diff.
Step 5: decrease angle on the clutch diff.
(Both of these settings will help with lift off oversteer which is what you are experiencing)

And like the previous post says, once you get a feel for it its super fun to setup the car for a little hard turn in with just a touch of power understeer. Then you slide the back end around and just before its too far gone you hop on the throttle, shifting the weight onto the rears and launch out of the corner.

If there's one car I would say I was really good at in pcars 1 it's the clio. Mainly because of the countless hours I spent on it every time I restarted a career due to some bug or something in its early days.

z3r0cool77
02-10-2017, 01:29
Hit the throttle when it oversteers.

Counter-intuitive, but that's how you're supposed to drive them. Let the back end round to turn the car. When it's pointing about the right direction, hit the throttle and he front tires will pull it straight.

Guess it could seem counter intuitive if youre used to rear wheel drives but its pretty standard for front wheel powered cars.

z3r0cool77
02-10-2017, 01:31
Dont lower front. That just encourages the rear to come around because youre moving the center of balance towards the rear. You need to do the exact opposite.

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 01:41
Guess it could seem counter intuitive if youre used to rear wheel drives but its pretty standard for front wheel powered cars.

Exactly. That's how you drive fwd fast. But in sims we mostly drive rwd and that's all we know.

Koza_Nostra
03-10-2017, 08:27
Right, so yesterday finally had time to play PC2 and try few different setups on Clio. And it worked! Had a good blast around Oulton park and Knockhill in Career racing. Finally that thing is driveable :) Don't get me wrong, the rear end still likes to come out if you're not careful, but at least it's easier to control it now and it's not as sensitive off-throttle or when braking. So here it's what I mainly changed:


- Lower preload (I set it to around 20)
- Power Ramp to high values
- Brake balance forward 60/40
- Rear tires pressures lowered to 1.40 psi

I haven't touched the suspension yet, I'm pretty sure there is more to find in that area, I will look into next.

Thanks for everyone's input guys :)

fishaac
03-10-2017, 21:09
Right, so yesterday finally had time to play PC2 and try few different setups on Clio. And it worked! Had a good blast around Oulton park and Knockhill in Career racing. Finally that thing is driveable :) Don't get me wrong, the rear end still likes to come out if you're not careful, but at least it's easier to control it now and it's not as sensitive off-throttle or when braking. So here it's what I mainly changed:


- Lower preload (I set it to around 20)
- Power Ramp to high values
- Brake balance forward 60/40
- Rear tires pressures lowered to 1.40 psi

I haven't touched the suspension yet, I'm pretty sure there is more to find in that area, I will look into next.

Thanks for everyone's input guys :)

Yes dude thats it! Cheers

Diluvian
04-10-2017, 00:28
Good to hear that those changes work. @mods, might it be possible to think about changing the stable setup of that car in that direction? (higher power ramp, lower preload, optional forward brake balance and tire pressure reduction for the rears)

Kaerar
04-10-2017, 13:28
Regarding the overrotation issue there is an easy fix but I don't really get why this works, maybe the car is bugged.

The lower the POWER RAMP angle the more rotation even without putting in throttle. So to fix the issue go to differential setup:

- Lower preload (i set to 0)
- Power Ramp to high values

And the car behaves more realistic (imo) and predictable :) - Let me know if that works for you chaps.

Obviously not a Peugeot 205 owner/driver :D

TBH I loved that this car actually needs to be driven on throttle (stops that crazy back end) as that's how the Hot Hatch series races IRL. If anyone has driven '80's and '90's hot hatches they'll be familiar with this type of handling. It's rough and it's brutal and it's SOOOO much fun :D

Diluvian
04-10-2017, 16:05
I think it's driving style related and most users which aren't into driving front wheel driven race cars / casual players have problems (me obviously too) to control them with the default setups. I think they should get a chance to have fun without much of practicing by making the stable setup more easy to drive :).

PeteMason
04-10-2017, 16:39
I have started career mode and I also have "lift off oversteer" with the Clio (My Vauxhall Corsa drives better). I did all my setup routine and concentrated my times on the straights first. I then shifted weight forward and brake bias too, reduced brake pressure to stop rear wheels locking. So during driving and entering a corner I braked in a straight line while on half throttle, then when into the corner put foot down to pull me out of it. This all worked on the Brands Hatch track and now I have to try it on others now. AI set to 65% and aggression to 50%.

Using a PC on Win7 64bit with i7 with 3.5ghz, Nvidia Gt940 card and 16GB Ram, Logitech G27 wheel

Personal addition.
This game should never have been released with all the faults.

Konan
04-10-2017, 16:44
Well...if nothing should have been released with faults...there wouldn't be a human race...

HLR Toffo
04-10-2017, 18:40
The rear is having issues because the front has too much grip/weight. Reduce grip/weight at the front. Thats were the problem starts. Fix that first

z3r0cool77
04-10-2017, 19:10
I have started career mode and I also have "lift off oversteer" with the Clio (My Vauxhall Corsa drives better). I did all my setup routine and concentrated my times on the straights first. I then shifted weight forward and brake bias too, reduced brake pressure to stop rear wheels locking. So during driving and entering a corner I braked in a straight line while on half throttle, then when into the corner put foot down to pull me out of it. This all worked on the Brands Hatch track and now I have to try it on others now. AI set to 65% and aggression to 50%.

Using a PC on Win7 64bit with i7 with 3.5ghz, Nvidia Gt940 card and 16GB Ram, Logitech G27 wheel

Personal addition.
This game should never have been released with all the faults.

Clio handling has absolutely nothing to do with any faultbor bug. Its no different than pcars 1 other than a little different feel for the tires. It handles exactly the way a fwd hatchback should.

Lars Rosenquist
05-10-2017, 05:39
For those struggling with the Clio (or other FWD race cars) and also struggling with understanding why this car behaves differently from your typical FWD road car (as opposed to a race car), I recomend checking out this thread at gtplanet.net: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/solved-the-world-physics-and-tyre-physics-need-tuning.360315/

It contains:

1. Videos showing Clio Cups in real life;
2. Videos of PC2 drivers showing how to drive this car;
3. Videos of real life Clio/BTCC drivers explaining how to drive this car and why it behaves the way it does;
4. Good explanation of the car(s) in general.

(also a fair bit of drivel in there, but please read around that :P)

Leper Messiah
05-10-2017, 08:22
Turns 1 and 4 at brands hatch short, have to really tippy toe my way around those

To be fair those corners are notorious in reality, T1 Paddock Hill is over the brow of a hill, T4 Surtees is the only fast left hand corner so puts a lot of strain on a tyre that doesn't have much heat in it.

cpcdem
05-10-2017, 10:28
For those struggling with the Clio (or other FWD race cars) and also struggling with understanding why this car behaves differently from your typical FWD road car (as opposed to a race car), I recomend checking out this thread at gtplanet.net: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/solved-the-world-physics-and-tyre-physics-need-tuning.360315/

It contains:

1. Videos showing Clio Cups in real life;
2. Videos of PC2 drivers showing how to drive this car;
3. Videos of real life Clio/BTCC drivers explaining how to drive this car and why it behaves the way it does;
4. Good explanation of the car(s) in general.

(also a fair bit of drivel in there, but please read around that :P)

Hey, many thanks for posting that, it was extremely helpful!

Have read only a bit so far, but it was such a great eye opener seeing in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hodx568fhs&feature=player_embedded

at 1.50 and at other times, how professional drivers can spin seemingly out of nowhere with the Clio if they are not very careful, exactly the way as I often spin with it in the game. Fantastic level of realism, and this gives you the incentive to practice and practice more with it, in order to master controlling the car, instead of getting frustrated that it spins "too easily". I have started getting a handle on it now and it feels like a blast when I throw it out properly around the corners with throttle control only basically!

SMS, please do never level down the physics of the game, in order to make cars like this (unrealistically) easier to drive without much effort. Instead, please try communicating as much as possible why cars behave the way they do and that this is the correct (realistic) way, because indeed for FWD newbies like me, it did feel bizarre at first. But it all starts to make perfect sense when you give it the time that it deserves..

Lars Rosenquist
05-10-2017, 10:54
at 1.50 and at other times, how professional drivers can spin seemingly out of nowhere with the Clio if they are not very careful, exactly the way as I often spin with it in the game.
I particularly like the first bit, where you see cars going backwards left and right in the first few corners. :D

Lars Rosenquist
05-10-2017, 10:54
<double post please remove>

cpcdem
05-10-2017, 11:19
I particularly like the first bit, where you see cars going backwards left and right in the first few corners. :D

Yeah, but that involved also some contact between cars that produced some of the spins :)

Thinking more along the lines of communicating car physics, maybe it would make sense for SMS to include a short car handling description/quick driving tips per car in the car selection screen? Maybe not for all cars, but at least for the most popular ones, and/or the ones that are used in career. Possibly this will help people on what they should expect and will give them a heads up (and advise) on handling difficulties.

TylerDurden4321
05-10-2017, 11:56
Let me show you the issue:
https://abload.de/img/pcars2-clio-3-wheelink8u08.gif

The problem is that the rear of the car is a solid axle, (== infinite anti-roll bar stiffness), combine that with a front anti-rollbar that is not stiff enough and the car will roll diagonally, lifting the inner rear tire in a corner.
That one tire left has problems carrying the lateral forces + the yaw inertia forces and all that on a bad camber that doesn't have a dynamic part to give it more camber under compression ==> the one rear wheel gives in and slides.

I was told here in a thread that this behavior is true to real life (I've seen a EVO youtube video, it is correct), however IRL the one rear wheel left doesn't slide in any of the videos, it's capable of carrying the side-load which makes the car very agile.
If you ask me, the window between one-wheeling rear and rear-wheel giving in to a slide is too narrow, that's the problem and there are no setup options available to counter this (ideal would be a stiffer front anti-rollbar and more rear camber, but first is not available and the second is already maxed by default).

z3r0cool77
05-10-2017, 12:41
Its fine. Its all down to your driving and its very easy to control once you have the hang of it.

Leper Messiah
05-10-2017, 13:24
I particularly like the first bit, where you see cars going backwards left and right in the first few corners. :D

Gotta love Paddock Hill corner!!

Seelenkrank
05-10-2017, 14:32
*lol* this is an complete joke...

the only thing you need to change to get this car driveable is to set the amount of the engine brake from 1 to 5...
*physics*

rosko
05-10-2017, 16:47
I heard people say they have experienced lots of lift off oversteer & also snap oversteer, really cant say im having the same problem. It gets light at the rear at fast corners so when it starts to do that i stop accelerating or ease off the throttle slightly. slowing down for bends its very stable for me.

Kaerar
06-10-2017, 05:02
*lol* this is an complete joke...

the only thing you need to change to get this car driveable is to set the amount of the engine brake from 1 to 5...
*physics*

Will have to test that. Though it does lose grip a little too fast at the rear, however it's not too bad. Again first game I've had the feel of racing a FWD car properly, usually they just don't react correctly at all.

TSquarest
06-10-2017, 07:08
For those struggling with the Clio (or other FWD race cars) and also struggling with understanding why this car behaves differently from your typical FWD road car (as opposed to a race car), I recomend checking out this thread at gtplanet.net:

It contains:

1. Videos showing Clio Cups in real life;
2. Videos of PC2 drivers showing how to drive this car;
3. Videos of real life Clio/BTCC drivers explaining how to drive this car and why it behaves the way it does;
4. Good explanation of the car(s) in general.

(also a fair bit of drivel in there, but please read around that :P)

Thanks for this. I must admit I also thought the Clio's were bugged but now I can compete in decent manner. I love it now!

Racefancy
06-10-2017, 08:08
I've found the key to be braking in a straight line, not transitioning off the brake with much steering lock and being on the throttle by the apex to keep the rear in line. Works well and rarely have the rear end trying to overtake.

TSquarest
08-10-2017, 13:55
Thanks for this. I must admit I also thought the Clio's were bugged but now I can compete in decent manner. I love it now!

Okay, I was happy mastering the Clio and then got my first wet race. Suddenly the grip is great (much better than on the dry with dry tyres) and it doesn't take any effort at all to keep the car on the track.

donkey racer
08-10-2017, 16:25
i just changed the tyres to wets get about 10 laps with them

Stephen220378
08-10-2017, 18:08
Put wets on in the dry, the car handles perfectly. I assume the devs have made a balls up somewhere and the wets are actually the slicks.

donkey racer
08-10-2017, 18:39
saying this though my mate done a lap of 1:35.079 at cadwell gp earlier on default set up ,,,, i only managed a 1 :41 on wets

Stephen220378
08-10-2017, 19:46
The wets do burn up like wets though, a few laps of Brands Hatch Indy and the front left is overheating followed by the right a couple of laps later.

TSquarest
08-10-2017, 20:30
Put wets on in the dry, the car handles perfectly. I assume the devs have made a balls up somewhere and the wets are actually the slicks.

I don't think so, I think the wets are bugged and dry are just hard to handle because it's a Fwd.

Wets in the rain have so much grip that it's not fun anymore. You don't even spin going halfway through the grass braking during a corner.

xtro
08-10-2017, 20:48
My advice : Damping at 0 and Speed Sensitivity is at 50

major sunscreen
08-10-2017, 21:25
The slicks are fine for me, competitive pole (1 sec faster) and warm at 85% difficulty, in pc with g920. wets far too much grip, 7 secs a lap faster on same difficulty. For those having control issues I suggest you re-read the thread from the start as your path has been walked down before. Your lack of pace may have other solutions than patches alone.

manzomo
06-11-2017, 21:02
I had the same issues too, especially mid corner once I was about to apex. The car stepped out every time. My cure was:

1) significantly decrease rear tyre pressure so they they run between 30-32 psi after 1 lap
2) soften rear suspension, I took it down by about 30% from default.
3) Adjust brake balance to 65% front in dry and 52% front in wet
4) brake before turning and then apply mid level throttle as you approach the apex. This stabilises the car around nicely.

Now the car is huge fun to drive in races. You still have to pay attention and drive it a certain way but it no longer felt unfair

hello! firsdt post here :-)

I can't find the way to soften the rear suspension, as I can't change the srping rate (I'm on PS4)
has it anything to do with dampers?

Keena
06-11-2017, 21:22
hello! firsdt post here :-)

I can't find the way to soften the rear suspension, as I can't change the srping rate (I'm on PS4)
has it anything to do with dampers?

You're not going to like this but Yes, and no. You have a bit of studying ahead. If you're running the Clio you need to balance the oversteer with power.
're dampers- soft bump is weight transfer under braking, accelerating and cornering. When braking for example, you can use the compression of the front of the car to aid grip. Fast bump is the compression and extension of the tyre over the actual road surface. Told you that you had some studying- this is the barest explanation of what you're talking about. Springs are self explanatory but again there's plenty of traps for the unwary.. on some cars spring rate is fixed. There's ways around this though.. if on the Clio increase power ramp on the diff and carry some throttle through the corner..

Keena
06-11-2017, 21:23
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56966-Something-for-those-starting-out-to-help-you-enjoy-this-incredible-sim-more

drathuu
07-11-2017, 07:56
Also if you straight line brake, and run some throttle on turn in, the rear squats and sticks better.. Brake more gently stops the massive weight transfer under braking too.. Stifing front springs should also slow down weight transfer..

FWD - If in doubt, power out.. Applying throttle on the oversteer straightens it up.. Adapt your style to the little FWD.. it can be an amazing rocketship even stock.
NOTE: PC version, with Wheel.. (I assume it would be really bad on a controller).

danowat
07-11-2017, 08:13
Does the Clio have adjustable rear toe?

gregc
07-11-2017, 11:44
Also if you straight line brake, and run some throttle on turn in, the rear squats and sticks better.. Brake more gently stops the massive weight transfer under braking too.. Stifing front springs should also slow down weight transfer..

FWD - If in doubt, power out.. Applying throttle on the oversteer straightens it up.. Adapt your style to the little FWD.. it can be an amazing rocketship even stock.
NOTE: PC version, with Wheel.. (I assume it would be really bad on a controller).

It's actually also a lot of fun with a pad, with the same proviso - you have to adapt your driving. In fact, the #2 time on the PC leaderboard for Brands Indy appears to be on a pad - http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1300627020&vehicle=3646257473

manzomo
08-11-2017, 22:16
You're not going to like this but Yes, and no. You have a bit of studying ahead. If you're running the Clio you need to balance the oversteer with power.
're dampers- soft bump is weight transfer under braking, accelerating and cornering. When braking for example, you can use the compression of the front of the car to aid grip. Fast bump is the compression and extension of the tyre over the actual road surface. Told you that you had some studying- this is the barest explanation of what you're talking about. Springs are self explanatory but again there's plenty of traps for the unwary.. on some cars spring rate is fixed. There's ways around this though.. if on the Clio increase power ramp on the diff and carry some throttle through the corner..

thanks a lot for the 101 intro tu dumpers :-) I'm aware I've a lot of study ahead...
nevertheless, I've managed to get a pole position in Brands Hatch Indy (although with a very low level...but I still put in various laps without turnng the car 180) following the principle of never pull the throttle when cornering. I got there by watching the replay of the AI that was getting the fastest time and finally understanding the basics of FWD driving . He barely touched the brakes and kept the engine on around 5k RPM when cornering. But his driving was very different from the IRL one posted above, where the pilot is on much higher RPM.

PeteMason
10-11-2017, 08:57
Well...if nothing should have been released with faults...there wouldn't be a human race...

Now that's a reply I would expect from a youngster.
You don't buy humans sunshine with hard earned cash that's illegal. When something is sold you expect it to work 100%. You would not buy a new car if you knew it had faults.
This company knows they should have not released it, yet as I have read in a post from the CEO regarding the trading standards companies which was made in brackets. Even though they bring out patches the consumer in the UK is now protected by law regarding the buying of faulty games.
But hey I have not reported anyone, although it would be easy to do so.

Please don't get me wrong and get on your high horses here, I love the game and have bought other game by this company, but there are too many problems that need sorting out.

In England you are allowed free speech and that was all I was doing without insulting anyone and I made a fair comment. Strange how you just picked up on that last little comment and did not say anything constructive about the issues i posted. I thought Moderators should not comment in such a way as to incite retaliatory replies.

You all have a nice day and happy racing.

Keena
10-11-2017, 09:09
thanks a lot for the 101 intro tu dumpers :-) I'm aware I've a lot of study ahead...
nevertheless, I've managed to get a pole position in Brands Hatch Indy (although with a very low level...but I still put in various laps without turnng the car 180) following the principle of never pull the throttle when cornering. I got there by watching the replay of the AI that was getting the fastest time and finally understanding the basics of FWD driving . He barely touched the brakes and kept the engine on around 5k RPM when cornering. But his driving was very different from the IRL one posted above, where the pilot is on much higher RPM.

Hey Manzomo, good to read your feedback. I'm happy that's it's working for you. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the Clio. I ended up having a lot of fun in that car. Regarding the study- that's fun too. I started out thinking exactly the same, that it must be a fault etc etc. But I read up and realised it's expected behaviour and then realised I needed to understand a lot more about car setups than I did. It took me a few weeks of reading articles on lots of different websites and I recommend you look at real world methods and descriptions. So pleased that I was able to help, even in a small way. :)

LockeChris
10-11-2017, 11:41
I was about to open a thread about how I came to love this car, but then I discovered this one. Lots of great info in here already and I can't really offer much additional input for those who still struggle with the car, but here's some of my experiences anyway. :)
I really struggled with the Clio (and the other FWD Touring Cars) for quite a while. It was basically undriveable for me. Coming from all sorts of racing games, what I had learned so far was: FWD = Understeer = annoying but easy to drive. Which might be true for certain road cars, but is obviously complete BS when it comes to racing cars. And I quickly realised and accepted that this car behaviour is actually natural and realistic. But still, I never learned the driving style for that, so it was undriveable and frustrating!

But at some point I actually took a mental step back and thought..hang on. What's the cause of these problems and couldn't I influence that by driving differently? So then I started to adjust my driving and played around with the setup (to a degree that my knowledge allows) and suddenly I noticed that I started to control this little beast! And after more and more practice it became more and more fun and most importantly, started to feel intuitive! :yes: The thing is that the driving style is something you'd never think of at first, because with every other car it would just be very slow, so it really needs a flick of the switch in your brain.

Now I can't yet say that I can throw this car into corners, in fact my technique right now is very different. But I was able to compete with some seriously fast guys the other night, so it might not be totally off. The key factors to me are (as partly mentioned before):

Brake much earlier and veeery gradually release the brake (even trail braking is possible that way). Mostly I tend to be on the throttle again (just a bit) once I turn in, before the apex!
In nervous corners, roll onto the throttle gently whilst you roll off the brakes. This overlap is also a big help for me in fast corners, where you only have to lift or brake a little bit in 3rd/4th gear. Brake a little, overlap, realese brake and power through! Sometimes you really need some faith for this because your brain is not used to hitting full throttle before the apex for a fast turn in a FWD car. It's scary, but it works 99% of the time :D
Throttle modulation: especially in very long corners you have to adapt your throttle modulation. Don't lift off completely like you usually would! Just feather it lightly between 50%-100%. Getting understeer? Release the pedal a tad. Backside coming around? Pedal towards the metal again. :p Like this you can really have the car dancing around those corners very nicely!
And then there's the steering. After a couple of really good online races where I found a great rhythm and good speed I observed that I hardly use any steering angle :D Except for the apex area in slow corners maybe. But apart from that I tend to massage the car around the track, and I really mean that! Turn in as smooooth as you can and the back will help you turn in, requiring only very little steering input. But it's all about smoothness! And obviously, be ready to gently open up the steering throughout the corner if necessary. It almost feels like your steering it by telepathy.

So yeah, I just wanted to share this because it transformed that car for me, and maybe there's something in there that someone might find useful. Don't give up on it guys, at some point, it will click! :o

manzomo
12-11-2017, 20:18
I was about to open a thread about how I came to love this car, but then I discovered this one. Lots of great info in here already and I can't really offer much additional input for those who still struggle with the car, but here's some of my experiences anyway. :)

/////////

So yeah, I just wanted to share this because it transformed that car for me, and maybe there's something in there that someone might find useful. Don't give up on it guys, at some point, it will click! :o

Thanks a lot for wiritng this! I really find yours a very appropriate description on how to (try to) drive it.
However, there are some tracks where I find it much harder, such as to Silverstone National in the laste three corners. As said, I suually watch the other AI replays (and will try with human players in TT if this is allowed) to learn how to do it, but as much as I try to do follow what they do, I can't permorm as good (and I play in very low difficulty: 30!). Their cars seem just more stable.
Also, as I've read elsewehere on fora, the car is unrealistically (?) ore stable on wet than on dry track, possibly because of the wet tyres. Some say wet tires also work best on dry but haven't tried that myself yet.

But I still haven't understood why in the IRL video I've seen of Brands Hatch the driving style is different: they keep the car at much higher RPM (lower gear) than the driving style you describe invites you to do.

LockeChris
12-11-2017, 20:29
Thanks a lot for wiritng this! I really find yours a very appropriate description on how to (try to) drive it.
However, there are some tracks where I find it much harder, such as to Silverstone National in the laste three corners. As said, I suually watch the other AI replays (and will try with human players in TT if this is allowed) to learn how to do it, but as much as I try to do follow what they do, I can't permorm as good (and I play in very low difficulty: 30!). Their cars seem just more stable.
Also, as I've read elsewehere on fora, the car is unrealistically (?) ore stable on wet than on dry track, possibly because of the wet tyres. Some say wet tires also work best on dry but haven't tried that myself yet.

But I still haven't understood why in the IRL video I've seen of Brands Hatch the driving style is different: they keep the car at much higher RPM (lower gear) than the driving style you describe invites you to do.

Yeah some tracks are more challenging than others for me too, like with any other car! I think you should not look at how the AI drives, they have unrealistic lines and driving styles at the moment! Find your line on your own, that's the best you can do, learning by doing!
The car is very stable in the wet, yes. Not sure if this is related to a bug or not...I've never tried the wet tires in a dry race though. And about the IRL driving: I never said I drive the car at low RPMs :D No really, that depends on how you like it I guess. With these small, low-powered engines they might do it because they would lose a lot of power and momentum in the lower revs. I also like to keep my cars at higher revs in corners in general because it reduces understeer.

manzomo
12-11-2017, 20:51
Yeah some tracks are more challenging than others for me too, like with any other car! I think you should not look at how the AI drives, they have unrealistic lines and driving styles at the moment! Find your line on your own, that's the best you can do, learning by doing!
The car is very stable in the wet, yes. Not sure if this is related to a bug or not...I've never tried the wet tires in a dry race though. And about the IRL driving: I never said I drive the car at low RPMs :D No really, that depends on how you like it I guess. With these small, low-powered engines they might do it because they would lose a lot of power and momentum in the lower revs. I also like to keep my cars at higher revs in corners in general because it reduces understeer.

I'm curious about your driving style now :-) any video/ghost to share?
and what have you touched in setups? did you mess with steering ratio too? I've tried to reduce it to have less risk of oversteering. I'm using a Logitech G29 (my first wheel ever) and I wonder if there are tweaks to make in the settings to make a better experience out of it (depending on cars, tracks, etc.)

Yes, I've heard AI driving has issues, hope they fix it soon. btw (sorry last question): are there any other FWD seasons in Career Mode?

LockeChris
12-11-2017, 22:37
Okay I've recorded a lap for you of a replay I had saved, Idk if it's helpful. It's not the best driving style for sure but you can check it out here:
https://youtu.be/dlHL4gEgI4Y
Unfortunately it's not possible to view telemetry data in the replay...

I have altered the setup, but not the steering ratio. Not a bad idea actually! I can share my setup here tomorrow, I'll just update this post.

I don't know about the career but can't you look it up in the game? There are more FWD Touring Cars in the game in a higher class than the Clio, so maybe there are more career seasons with these. There's the RWD BMW in there too though.

LockeChris
14-11-2017, 17:20
Well what do you know...I thought I should try myself on the Nordschleife with the Clio, because somehow I had never done that before. Managed to snag 3rd place in the time trials pretty quickly ;) I think I could shave off these last 5 seconds as I did make some mistakes, but getting such a quick lap in cleanly might take a while. I'd love to share the replay of that lap, but I haven't found out yet how to watch or save your time trial replays :confused:

Also, never mind the U rating, that's actually A :)

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And here'S what I changed in the setup as far as I remember. But that might of course not be universally correct, it's just what felt good for me personally:
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venquessa
20-07-2018, 11:57
Sorry for replying to an old thread. I just got PCars2 installed and was working my way through the Clio Cup championships.

The oversteer issue is definitely out of order. I'm not talking about driving style either, I could rock the clio in PCars1 and win the championship at 100% diff.

Out of the box, with the "Stable" set up at Brands Hatch or Silverstone I have

*Oversteer on the brakes, even with a 70% front bias.
*Huge Oversteer on turn in, on or off the brakes.
*Oversteer at apex, especially if I touch the kerb
*Oversteer even on the power through the apex
*Even oversteer on the exit in places - Knockhill, chicane over the crest and the next corner over the crest and turn 1.

Undrivable with that setup. Lessens to barely drivable after 3 laps when there is at least some warmth in the rear tyres. It's really like a shopping trolley.

The PCars1 Clio was a bit of a beast at times such as the Bomb Hole at snetterton or the final corner, occasionally gave grief at the final direction change in for the final turn at Brands. That was quickly addressed with two clicks stiff on the front anti-roll bar and one click soft on the rear. In PCars2 the anti-roll bars are locked.

I struggled through with a pimp setup for tyres, over pressured fronts, flat rears, but in corners like Copes at silverstone I was eaten alive by the AI at 70% diff. I was braking hard and late, getting back on the power at turn in, entering in 4th and then having to put in half a turn of opposite lock while on the power to stay on the track. The only way to not oversteer was to go really slow and get overtaken.

This bears no resemblence to any of the videos or real world clios posted. PCars1 was closer to that. There you got a bit of turnin oversteer and mashed the throttle down and it snapped back straight and manage the understeer through the exit. That doesn't work in PCars2. Not with the default setup. I have noted stiffening the power side of the diff though as an option.

In Qually, tyre heating is fine on the front but you need a good 2 or 3 laps to get the rears into the light green and start working. I don't know how you would be meant to get the tyres up to temp on a single warm up lap.

I came here to see what could be done and see that PCars forums haven't changed much.

sloppysmusic
22-07-2018, 21:44
Just saw this thread...someone commented recently they liked my stable tune in my career thread. I concentrate mostly on stability for the 'average' driver so here's the link anyway. The 5 Clio races are linked inside the OP.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?62938-Sloppy-s-Fast-Stable-and-Fun-Career-Tunes-(G29)