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Anthroban
01-10-2017, 17:04
Some of them are much faster than others. I tested a few at Laguna Seca and I did a 1:31.7 with the KTM but could only do 1:34.6 with the Mustang 302. That's a huge performance gap!

rich1e I
01-10-2017, 17:25
The Mustang is much heavier and has more power. The KTM might just be more suited for Laguna Seca

dault3883
01-10-2017, 17:28
The Mustang is much heavier and has more power. The KTM might just be more suited for Laguna Seca

Agreed laguna seca is best gotten around by being nimble not brute speed especially with the cork screw turn

Mad Al
01-10-2017, 19:39
try over a selection of varied circuits.. you can't set BoP based on just one circuit

Anthroban
01-10-2017, 20:13
try over a selection of varied circuits.. you can't set BoP based on just one circuit

Alright, I'll test it out on something that should favour brute power - Watkins Glen. I was focusing on Laguna Seca because the league I'm in has a GT4 race coming up there in a couple days.

RGnt
01-10-2017, 22:43
Also for leagues they can request you to run certain restrictor plate for GT4s, for public racing not so much just drive the fastest there :P

crowhop
01-10-2017, 22:46
Also for leagues they can request you to run certain restrictor plate for GT4s, for public racing not so much just drive the fastest there :P
Is there a way to enforce this?

Jussi Karjalainen
01-10-2017, 23:37
You can get big variance from track to track, and some drivers can wring out a surprising amount of performance from specific cars like the 302 Mustang, so more data is needed for actual BoPping, but we definitely welcome feedback on class balance issues like this!

Zak757
02-10-2017, 01:23
Also for leagues they can request you to run certain restrictor plate for GT4s, for public racing not so much just drive the fastest there :P
I'm guessing the Cayman and X-Bow are the fastest while the Boss 302 and GT86 are the slowest? I chose the M3 GT4 for the career and it's a pretty fun car, I don't know how it stacks up performance wise though.

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Anthroban
02-10-2017, 04:01
Cayman, KTM, and Ginetta are all fast and pretty equal. The two Mustangs are 2 seconds slower at Laguna Seca, at least in my hands. I spent an hour and a half with the 302 trying to improve with it, but the best I can do is 1:33.6 - a full second faster than I was but still 2 seconds slower than I am with the Porsche, KTM, or Ginetta. I tried the BMW and I thought it was pretty slow too but I only did 3 laps.

Anthroban
02-10-2017, 04:30
The Mustang is much heavier and has more power. The KTM might just be more suited for Laguna Seca

Thing is it doesn't have more straight line speed. It's much heavier so it has longer braking zones which makes it much slower and it corners horribly. Taking that into account I just tested the 302 Mustang vs the Ginetta (which I found is almost exactly the same performance as the KTM) on Monza Short. It's basically two long straights connected by a few lazy corners with only one serious braking zone. Apart from an oval I can't imagine a track that should favour what people imagine is the Mustang 302s strength - brute grunt. But I found the Mustang is STILL slower than the Ginetta even on a circuit where it would be expected to shine. It was only about 0.5 seconds slower but that's on a track that has a lap time of less than a minute.

Maybe someone has another circuit that isn't just an oval where they think the 302 might actually have the advantage over the other cars. It seems to me it can't compete except on the most simple of circuits with a minimum of corners and braking zones and even then it's slow.

It has the same acceleration as the Ginetta and much worse braking and cornering.

bmanic
02-10-2017, 07:12
The Mustang 302 is definitely weaker than the KTM/Ginetta (these are known to be fast). This was already evident during beta but I thought this was accepted?

Invincible
02-10-2017, 07:27
The Mustang 302 is definitely weaker than the KTM/Ginetta (these are known to be fast). This was already evident during beta but I thought this was accepted?

The BMW is also pretty much on the slow side.

Anthroban
02-10-2017, 14:37
Yes the BMW is slow too.

In real life GT4 cars all undergo Balance of Performance to make sure the field is competitive. I think that this clearly needs to be looked at in Project Cars 2.

DreamsKnight
02-10-2017, 14:57
You can get big variance from track to track, and some drivers can wring out a surprising amount of performance from specific cars like the 302 Mustang, so more data is needed for actual BoPping, but we definitely welcome feedback on class balance issues like this!

so jussi, for design choice, there is a car balance inside the same class?

Jussi Karjalainen
02-10-2017, 15:11
The class is intended to be balanced, and if they're significantly off we'll tweak the balance. We will need to gather data from a variety of tracks though.

One thing to keep in mind also is that if a particular car is harder to drive quickly, but ultimately capable of the same level of performance in the right hands, we need to be careful about making it faster for everyone else. A situation where a car that's harder to drive is outright superior for those who can tame it isn't good either. We want the ultimate capabilities of the cars to line up well, which might mean some cars are a bit slower for the majority in a worst case scenario.

TooMuchCyanide
02-10-2017, 15:37
Cayman, KTM, and Ginetta are all fast and pretty equal. The two Mustangs are 2 seconds slower at Laguna Seca, at least in my hands. I spent an hour and a half with the 302 trying to improve with it, but the best I can do is 1:33.6 - a full second faster than I was but still 2 seconds slower than I am with the Porsche, KTM, or Ginetta. I tried the BMW and I thought it was pretty slow too but I only did 3 laps.

I managed a 1:32.1 with the 302 at Laguna Seca, and I know where I can improve. Used hard slicks with a longer final drive, and slightly lower than default tire pressures.

sp3ctor
02-10-2017, 18:34
I'm curious how this is done just sort of because I'm a nerd. I'd assume SMS gathers some sort of data about multiplayer racing? If so, couldn't it crunch the numbers after N number of races at N tracks from N cars in a class? If your sample is large enough, it should sort of control for driver skill, weather etc..

If the BMW is actually slower across all tracks and drivers, wouldn't it show up over time in the online stats assuming someone is gathering those times?

Anthroban
02-10-2017, 19:24
I managed a 1:32.1 with the 302 at Laguna Seca, and I know where I can improve. Used hard slicks with a longer final drive, and slightly lower than default tire pressures.

Couple things - set it on time trial and I'll believe you. I currently hold the record at 1:33.6

Also I'm not saying I'm the fastest. I did 1:31.7 in the KTM and Ginetta but other guys have done 1:30 in the same cars. Maybe you're a second and a half faster than me generally, these other guys are, the car is still slow. See if you can't do a 1:30 in the KTM and Ginetta.

Anthroban
02-10-2017, 19:25
I'm curious how this is done just sort of because I'm a nerd. I'd assume SMS gathers some sort of data about multiplayer racing? If so, couldn't it crunch the numbers after N number of races at N tracks from N cars in a class? If your sample is large enough, it should sort of control for driver skill, weather etc..

If the BMW is actually slower across all tracks and drivers, wouldn't it show up over time in the online stats assuming someone is gathering those times?


Given enough time with enough people doing time trials it should become obvious which cars are slow I guess.

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 00:37
Thought I'd give the cars a quick test at Laguna Seca before going to sleep, ~50 liters in all of them in a race session and 3 laps, I got roughly the following (all cars have room for improvement):


Aston Vantage GT4 1:31.7
BMW M3 GT4 1:32.4
Ford Mustang 302R1 1:32.2
Ford Mustang RTR GT4 1:32.3
Ginetta G55 GT4 1:31.4
KTM X-Bow GT4 1:31.4
Porsche Cayman GT4 1:30.8
Toyota GT86 GT4 1:31.1

I expected the KTM and Ginetta to be fast due to their high aero performance at the very twisty and quite short Laguna Seca, and also that the KTM and the Toyota would do relatively well due to their forced induction (turbo on the KTM, supercharger on the Toyota, the Ford 302R for example loses about 7-8% of it's power at Laguna Seca compared to sea level). Considering I got more and more used to the track as I went on (started with Fords, then went alphabetical), their inherent differences, and that I gave all cars roughly the same amount of time and effort, I think they match up quite well. The Porsche is really the only one that stands out as a really good performer, and the M3 GT4 as maybe the slowest, though I know from prior testing I've been able to match the KTM with it at different tracks.

It's all data in the bank and will help us make intelligent adjustments, these things are not to be made based on very limited information and a hurry. I'll be conducting similar tests in the future on tracks that feature more straights and are perhaps closer to sea level.

TooMuchCyanide
03-10-2017, 00:54
Couple things - set it on time trial and I'll believe you. I currently hold the record at 1:33.6

Also I'm not saying I'm the fastest. I did 1:31.7 in the KTM and Ginetta but other guys have done 1:30 in the same cars. Maybe you're a second and a half faster than me generally, these other guys are, the car is still slow. See if you can't do a 1:30 in the KTM and Ginetta.

I managed a 1:31.064 with the Mustang, and just for comparisons sake, I did 1:29.01 with the Ginetta, and recorded both in time trial. On a technical track such as Laguna Seca it isn't surprising to see that the heavier Mustang struggles, might be a different story on a track with less corners/more straights.

Mustang lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeu-OEIJ_s

Ginetta lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBK3kKZLeDs

STRAKKA R11
03-10-2017, 06:04
I just finished the GT4 championships on career mode and it seemed to be that the Cayman and the Aston were the cars to be in as they kept mugging my KTM on the straight and were finishing ahead with like a 10 sec gap.

3800racingfool
03-10-2017, 13:50
Okay, so something I've not seen posted here yet: When talking about BOPing cars please do not use the laptimes of AI cars as evidence as they have absolutely no realistic bearing on the actual performance of the cars you drive. If you're going to test, either use a static setup (as Jussi did) or use time trial (as others have). Do it at a track you know very well and make sure you test each car thoroughly meaning clean laps with the proper line(s). Be sure to also test more than one track as track type and elevation will make a difference (N/A cars do worse at high altitudes). Testing also requires more than just running a few quick laps around a track as well. Need to do longer tests running a couple of hours because, while one car may be a little bit faster, other cars may have better fuel consumption and be able to run longer making up or surpassing the advantage gained by the faster car. (See this years CTSCC races)


BOP is not something that can be taken lightly at all, especially since PC2 is really trying to work into the eSports scene. There are many other eSport games who's developers have made changes to appease lower skilled players and those changes are quickly abused to no end by the high skill ones. And I'm sure nobody wants to watch an eSports event where everyone is driving the same car because it's much faster in the hands of a high skilled player than any other vehicle (even if it's 'equal' for lower skilled players).

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 14:05
SMS should maybe draw up a test plan and a format to present the data.
Which tracks, how many laps, what setup changes etc.
It'll help the dev team get the data together to get a good look at the BoP situation.

It can apply to the GT3 BoP situation too.

I'm skeptical. It's still early days, and we're all still learning the tracks, the new tire model, the new tuning...

Anthroban
03-10-2017, 15:23
@TooMuchCyanide Ah I see you're on Xbox. I missed that before. I'm on PC. No one has set lap times like that on PC yet so I wonder if there isn't some difference between the platforms. Do you use a FFB wheel or the controller?

Chin
06-10-2017, 18:28
@TooMuchCyanide Ah I see you're on Xbox. I missed that before. I'm on PC. No one has set lap times like that on PC yet so I wonder if there isn't some difference between the platforms. Do you use a FFB wheel or the controller?

...or more likely that an alien hasn't driven the car on PC. Based on PC1 experience, there were a lot more people running TT on the consoles than on a PC (a LOT more people in general!).

Dynomight Motorsports
06-10-2017, 22:46
The class is intended to be balanced, and if they're significantly off we'll tweak the balance. We will need to gather data from a variety of tracks though.

One thing to keep in mind also is that if a particular car is harder to drive quickly, but ultimately capable of the same level of performance in the right hands, we need to be careful about making it faster for everyone else. A situation where a car that's harder to drive is outright superior for those who can tame it isn't good either. We want the ultimate capabilities of the cars to line up well, which might mean some cars are a bit slower for the majority in a worst case scenario.
Not saying this could be done now or in the near future, but possibly allowing an Online Championship to regulate certain cars to provide a more balanced approach to a championship. You're always going to have fast drivers and fast cars. But some series In Real Life manage this by adding weight to dominant cars/drivers to level the field. Its possible to do this in Forza. Obviously it would have to be notated that the car was running with a Weight Disadvantage for scoring purposes.

Ravager619
07-10-2017, 06:10
I managed a 1:31.064 with the Mustang, and just for comparisons sake, I did 1:29.01 with the Ginetta, and recorded both in time trial. On a technical track such as Laguna Seca it isn't surprising to see that the heavier Mustang struggles, might be a different story on a track with less corners/more straights.

Mustang lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeu-OEIJ_s

Ginetta lap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBK3kKZLeDs

You may have a point with the Mustang RTR GT4. I'm driving it most of the time when I play, and in the custom races I've run this week the only time the Mustang has an advantage is on a long straightaway. I had a hard time keeping the Ginetta and the X-Bow behind me in the turns in places like Donington Park National and Red Bull Ring National. Once I hit the long straightaways? Buh bye!

blinkngone
09-10-2017, 13:31
Cool Ravager619!:D But, don't you think it has something to do with who you are racing against? Your TT time is very good for the RTR but at Donington there are 4 Ginettas with quicker times and 1 of them is over 2 seconds quicker. It's a similar spread at Red Bull. It's difficult to get the RTR working but try it at Silverstone National, it's only down about 1.5 seconds there.

Anthroban
09-10-2017, 14:17
I'm practicing a lot with the RTR, but my best times are always about 2 seconds slower than what I can do on the same track with the same conditions in a Cayman, G55, or Xbow. I've left the 302 Boss behind as I really can stand driving that snowplow.

Anthroban
09-10-2017, 14:18
You may have a point with the Mustang RTR GT4. I'm driving it most of the time when I play, and in the custom races I've run this week the only time the Mustang has an advantage is on a long straightaway. I had a hard time keeping the Ginetta and the X-Bow behind me in the turns in places like Donington Park National and Red Bull Ring National. Once I hit the long straightaways? Buh bye!

I haven't found the RTR has better acceleration than either of those. It seems exactly the same in that department and loses out on cornering speed and braking zones.

blinkngone
09-10-2017, 18:33
Hi, some of us are working on Silverstone National to get data for Jussi when he is eventually going to be looking at the BOP people are asking for. We need to make runs(both default and tuned) so he has this information. So far there is a gap between the Cayman and the Ginetta(usually the best car in PC1) that is around 0.6 seconds. In PC1 at this track the gap between the Ginetta and the second quickest car(Aston Martin) was 0.46 seconds so initially it appears the advantage of the quickest car over the next quickest at the same track is increasing. I have 1 Aston Martin that is within 0.3 seconds of the currently quickest Ginetta so these cars could be very competitive here(assuming that as the Ginetta improves the Aston can as well). We are having problems with the 2 Fords here, they are not competitive so we need more people to run them. The BMW is about where it was in PC1 compared to the other cars, same for the Toyota. Of course we need more runs over time, the issue right now is that the Cayman is too superior to the other cars here for racing, which also happens in real life. Track to track dominance will tell the real story but it has to start somewhere. Anyone willing to run some of these cars here will help.
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Ravager619
10-10-2017, 01:07
I just saw this thread a moment ago. Guess I'll have to start running the 'Stang at Silverstone National to see how it is there. I might need awhile to get used to the track, though. I rarely run it. I prefer Oulton Park and all those bumps and hills.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 01:16
I just saw this thread a moment ago. Guess I'll have to start running the 'Stang at Silverstone National to see how it is there. I might need awhile to get used to the track, though. I rarely run it. I prefer Oulton Park and all those bumps and hills.
Hi Ravager619, cpcdem is using my set up and likes it, go ahead and try it and let me know what you think. Thanks for participating!

TooMuchCyanide
10-10-2017, 01:18
@TooMuchCyanide Ah I see you're on Xbox. I missed that before. I'm on PC. No one has set lap times like that on PC yet so I wonder if there isn't some difference between the platforms. Do you use a FFB wheel or the controller?

I use a FFB wheel, more specifically the Logitech G920.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 01:38
I use a FFB wheel, more specifically the Logitech G920.
Hi too much,
RTR at Silverstone National TT 59.852
302 at Silverstone National TT 59.687

Could you tell me how these times compare to XBOX1?

Ravager619
10-10-2017, 03:24
Hi Ravager619, cpcdem is using my set up and likes it, go ahead and try it and let me know what you think. Thanks for participating!

I wish I had seen this before I spent the past 60 mins or so testing a version of my Red Bull Ring National setup and then doing TT. 1:00:839 (I think) is all I got for now. I'm still learning parts of the track so I might be able to get more out of it.

I'll download it and try it out tomorrow night. Thanks for offering!

Ravager619
10-10-2017, 06:25
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I wasn't able to download any of the setups, so I kept working on my own. I got it down a little bit, and I'm running consistent TT laps within 0.2 seconds of that best lap. I hope this helps.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 09:27
Hi Ravager619, thanks. Oh...I don't know why the shared set up doesn't work, it's frustrating. I will post up the settings in the Garage section so you can see what we're doing.

gandy
10-10-2017, 11:08
Just want to add a little to this thread. Dont compare GT4 cars that are not the same year as older/newer cars could be faster due to rule changes etc.. And also remember that European rules and USA rules are not the same and performance can be quite off based ont he rules of the series the cars are based on so ask yourself should a 2012 GT4 be faster than a 2016 GT4

An example of this is the real world Nissan GTR GT3's are at the end of their racing life and 2018 we should see a new racing GTR which can keep up or beat other cars on the tracks. With the GT4 cars in pacars 2 they cover a 4 year span which is longer than the life span of a racing car and long enough for performance based rules to change.

If any of the cars need a re-balance then it would not be to bring older cars up to a more modern performance spec.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 13:28
Hi gandy, you are correct. Mostly we are trying the older cars against each other if you look. We are having a problem getting the Mustangs to perform as well as the 302R did in PC1 compared to the Ginetta and the Aston Martin but thanks to some great/awesome driving by cpcdem we are getting closer. We need to work more on the RTR, just like you pointed out it is newer, and we will. As for the Cayman right now it is lumped in with the GT4's and it may need to become just a Cup car and pulled out of the GT4's but we don't have enough information yet, for instance right now at Laguna Seca it's a tie basically between the Ginetta and the Cayman and at Donnington one Ginnetta is faster so we need to get more information so the better decision can be made.

Help us by making some runs if you can.

cpcdem
10-10-2017, 13:41
...but thanks to some great/awesome driving by cpcdem we are getting closer.

Hey, now you're getting me flushing! That is until a better driver tries those combos and shoves off one or two seconds off my times :)
Thanks though :)

gandy
10-10-2017, 13:46
Cup cars in pCars 2 would be a worthy addition to the game that is for sure and something i hope many of us could get behind and support so the dev's could have a think about that and decide if any changes should go ahead ( could also make a great dlc of past and present cup cars ). I have the time to make runs on any track with any car but sadly im not fast and most of the tracks im still learning so all my bad times would be based on me and me alone and not what the car is capable of.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 13:56
Cup cars in pCars 2 would be a worthy addition to the game that is for sure and something i hope many of us could get behind and support so the dev's could have a think about that and decide if any changes should go ahead ( could also make a great dlc of past and present cup cars ). I have the time to make runs on any track with any car but sadly im not fast and most of the tracks im still learning so all my bad times would be based on me and me alone and not what the car is capable of.

That's not a problem, you can learn with us, try our setups, ask for advice we can work together. We have the best GT4 driver tuner from PC1 GT4 at this track, Sloskimo working with us and cpcdem who can really drive default set ups in PC2. No fear.:D

gregc
10-10-2017, 14:11
Can I jump in with a quick thought on the Cayman - during WMD it's relative performance came up, and someone mentioned that it's got less aero than the other GT4 cars, but correspondingly better straight line speed. Given that Silverstone National is essentially three long-ish straights and 4 corners, it's playing to the strength of that car. Not at all saying your results aren't useful (apart from anything else, I know the times I'm chasing with my pad are good ones!) but it might be worth doing some testing at somewhere a bit more twisty/flowing too. I'd suggest Knockhill, but then I'd always suggest that place :p

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 14:52
Can I jump in with a quick thought on the Cayman - during WMD it's relative performance came up, and someone mentioned that it's got less aero than the other GT4 cars, but correspondingly better straight line speed. Given that Silverstone National is essentially three long-ish straights and 4 corners, it's playing to the strength of that car. Not at all saying your results aren't useful (apart from anything else, I know the times I'm chasing with my pad are good ones!) but it might be worth doing some testing at somewhere a bit more twisty/flowing too. I'd suggest Knockhill, but then I'd always suggest that place :p

Yes, that is why we are not dismissing the other cars outright. We have Caymans 1st through 5th, Ginettas 7th, 9th and 10th, an Aston Martin in 11th, KTM 12th, Ford(302) 14th, and Ford(RTR) 16th. When we get some more data we can move on. Hopefully we aren't the only ones doing this.:eek: If we stick to this track for a while longer we can get more people experienced with maximizing their driving skills so that when we move to another track there will be more better drivers to fairly evaluate the cars. Going to school.:D FWIW this is going to take awhile with all the tracks to evaluate, people need to calm down, reduce their expectations of a quick BOP.

Daynja
10-10-2017, 15:10
In short, if you use autoclutch and paddle gearing some of the GT4s get owned on the straights like the Mustang (Spa for example) as the clutch in, gear select, gear engage, is very slow and the Porsche ,Ginetta & KTM leave the Mustang in the dust.

If you're an H-pattern manual clutch, blipper and lifter you may be able to drive the Mustang like a banshee ( i don't know what its capable of as i am an autoclutcher/paddle shifter)

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 15:25
In short, if you use autoclutch and paddle gearing some of the GT4s get owned on the straights like the Mustang (Spa for example) as the clutch in, gear select, gear engage, is very slow and the Porsche ,Ginetta & KTM leave the Mustang in the dust.

If you're an H-pattern manual clutch, blipper and lifter you may be able to drive the Mustang like a banshee ( i don't know what its capable of as i am an autoclutcher/paddle shifter)

You're right, the 2 fastest guys I know are shifting, I am fully automatic and they are really good at shifting so bye bye to me.:cool:

cpcdem
10-10-2017, 18:07
Can I jump in with a quick thought on the Cayman - during WMD it's relative performance came up, and someone mentioned that it's got less aero than the other GT4 cars, but correspondingly better straight line speed. Given that Silverstone National is essentially three long-ish straights and 4 corners, it's playing to the strength of that car.

I had not driven those cars before, so I can speak without bias :). To me what I felt was the biggest difference is that the Cayman was by far the easiest to handle, with default setup it handled perfectly. With the other cars and especially the Fords I was fighting with the wheel all the time, only when I used blinkngone's setups with them, I was then able to do some more consistent laps. Guess you're also right though, straight line speed should also be a factor.



In short, if you use autoclutch and paddle gearing some of the GT4s get owned on the straights like the Mustang (Spa for example) as the clutch in, gear select, gear engage, is very slow and the Porsche ,Ginetta & KTM leave the Mustang in the dust.


Agreed, I also use paddles/autoclutch and in the Mustang I was not doing some gear shifts that were normally needed, because I felt they were leading to slower lap times, due to the slow shift time.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 19:46
Can I jump in with a quick thought on the Cayman - during WMD it's relative performance came up, and someone mentioned that it's got less aero than the other GT4 cars, but correspondingly better straight line speed. Given that Silverstone National is essentially three long-ish straights and 4 corners, it's playing to the strength of that car. Not at all saying your results aren't useful (apart from anything else, I know the times I'm chasing with my pad are good ones!) but it might be worth doing some testing at somewhere a bit more twisty/flowing too. I'd suggest Knockhill, but then I'd always suggest that place :p

Hi gregc, what do you think about Nurburgring Sprint as the next track? It has the nice right hander at the end of the start finish straight and some tighter sections than National? Sorry, I just don't know Knockhill well enough and I'm a slow learner. I'd spend too much of my time learning the track. There are already some Caymans and Astons at Sprint. It looks as though there was a Cayman event of some sort a one of the Knockhill tracks so you have data there already.

Ravager619
10-10-2017, 21:49
In short, if you use autoclutch and paddle gearing some of the GT4s get owned on the straights like the Mustang (Spa for example) as the clutch in, gear select, gear engage, is very slow and the Porsche ,Ginetta & KTM leave the Mustang in the dust.

If you're an H-pattern manual clutch, blipper and lifter you may be able to drive the Mustang like a banshee ( i don't know what its capable of as i am an autoclutcher/paddle shifter)

Ruh roh. I have paddle shifters and no clutch pedal.

blinkngone
10-10-2017, 22:26
Ruh roh. I have paddle shifters and no clutch pedal.

Yeah, I'm full auto, if you think it's bad here wait until you see how bad it is at Oulton, at least it was in the first game, I think Ruapuna wasn't kind either.

gregc
11-10-2017, 00:15
Hi gregc, what do you think about Nurburgring Sprint as the next track? It has the nice right hander at the end of the start finish straight and some tighter sections than National? Sorry, I just don't know Knockhill well enough and I'm a slow learner. I'd spend too much of my time learning the track. There are already some Caymans and Astons at Sprint. It looks as though there was a Cayman event of some sort a one of the Knockhill tracks so you have data there already.

Hi mate, not familiar with Nurb sprint so I couldn't say for sure, to my mind you just need somewhere with enough medium/high speed corners to offset the straightline speed of the Porsche. Donington National might also be a good leveller.

I only really mentioned Knockhill because it's my 'one true love' track. Leave me on a desert island with Knockhill, a Caterham, and infinite petrol and I will die happy :D

blinkngone
11-10-2017, 01:10
Hi mate, not familiar with Nurb sprint so I couldn't say for sure, to my mind you just need somewhere with enough medium/high speed corners to offset the straightline speed of the Porsche. Donington National might also be a good leveller.

I only really mentioned Knockhill because it's my 'one true love' track. Leave me on a desert island with Knockhill, a Caterham, and infinite petrol and I will die happy :D

Hi, cpcdem did a test run there with his Cayman, he ran 14th, Cluck is tied for 1st. There were almost no other cars running there. He ran his KTM to 1st but he is over 2 seconds back of the Cayman leaders(and further off between his Cayman and KTM than at Silverstone) so it looks as though the spread there would have been worse than Silverstone. Sloskimo(mostly) and I did some test runs at Sprint, the BMWs, Aston Martin, KTMs and Caymans are all running in the 1:35s(1 Cayman in the 134's), the Cayman might not have as big an advantage. So, we decided to try and run Sprint instead. Sorry.

blinkngone
11-10-2017, 10:29
The class is intended to be balanced, and if they're significantly off we'll tweak the balance. We will need to gather data from a variety of tracks though.

One thing to keep in mind also is that if a particular car is harder to drive quickly, but ultimately capable of the same level of performance in the right hands, we need to be careful about making it faster for everyone else. A situation where a car that's harder to drive is outright superior for those who can tame it isn't good either. We want the ultimate capabilities of the cars to line up well, which might mean some cars are a bit slower for the majority in a worst case scenario.

Well Jussi and Casey what do you think about these results? BOP testing at Nurburgring Sprint. KTM might be good here?
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cpcdem
11-10-2017, 10:52
Well Jussi and Casey what do you think about these results? BOP testing at Nurburgring Sprint. KTM might be good here?


That was work in progress :)
I managed a better time with the Cayman, default setup. The KTM was close in lap time for me, but I used your setup for that track, which feels absolutely fantastic btw!

blinkngone
11-10-2017, 11:54
That was work in progress :)
I managed a better time with the Cayman, default setup. The KTM was close in lap time for me, but I used your setup for that track, which feels absolutely fantastic btw!

Oh, c**p, j/k. Ok so you're around a 7 tenths gap first attempts which is about half of Knockhill so we at least are on the right track, I had to change the set up for the KTM from National, not saying it's any good, are you sure you're using my set up?

cpcdem
11-10-2017, 12:24
Oh, c**p, j/k. Ok so you're around a 7 tenths gap first attempts which is about half of Knockhill so we at least are on the right track, I had to change the set up for the KTM from National, not saying it's any good, are you sure you're using my set up?

You mean for the KTM in Nurburgring? Yes, first I used the one you had created for Silverstone and it was still good enough, but then I used your dedicated one for the ring and it was awesome, the car feels completely planted now! (I only made the usual adjustments in TC/ABS, but did not touch the difs or anything else at all)

blinkngone
11-10-2017, 12:34
You mean for the KTM in Nurburgring? Yes, first I used the one you had created for Silverstone and it was still good enough, but then I used your dedicated one for the ring and it was awesome, the car feels completely planted now! (I only made the usual adjustments in TC/ABS, but did not touch the difs or anything else at all)

Ok if you're sure. I made another run and improved to 2nd but I'm 1.5 seconds behind you, with my set up.:miserable: I can try again later.

If you have time please run the Aston Martin for me so I have an additional benchmark for default, thanks.

I have a set up ready for the Ginetta, out lap. It's equal to the "normal" Cayman drivers.:(
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blinkngone
11-10-2017, 13:16
Ok. Mojave Sidewinder, there isn't a straight section on this track. Maybe the KTM might work better here? Nope. The Cayman is an easy 8 tenths up again. This seems to be the difference on the 3 tracks we have looked at so far. Oh well, back to Sprint.
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blinkngone
12-10-2017, 19:31
Hey, moved over to the new Garage. Difference down to 3 tenths, it's a race.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?156-The-Garage-Car-Setup-Talk