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Jussi Karjalainen
01-10-2017, 23:18
EDIT 8.7.2018: .ODS version updated to v0.996b, new archives available. Excel version is unchanged. This was caused by BadGrrmmr and CastrolGT noticing that the Toyota GT-One models weren't showing up correctly (thanks guys!), after investigating this it turns out that Open-/LibreOffice use a different kind of alphabetical ordering than Excel, requiring these cars to be before the GT86 models in the list.
EDIT 14.6.2018: Update to v0.996, cars from the Spirit of Le Mans added, changed total "heave rate" column to show current damper critical rate (doesn't include 3rd spring, still gotta use the graph for that...).
EDIT 2.5.2018: Update to v0.995, Ferrari 488 Challenge added, fixed rear spring selector sometimes showing the wrong number of spring options.
EDIT 13.3.2018: Added .zip and .7z download links.
EDIT 9.3.2018: Version 0.99 released, added missing DLC cars, improved calculations on cars with varying motion ratios, added an optional "roll frequency with swaybars included", but it's not super accurate so don't treat it as gospel.
EDIT 21.02.2018: Just a heads up that I'm back here on the forums and an update to the calculator IS coming in the future. Also I've added a link to the old thread in this post so you can reach my old videos easier.
EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.96 released, fixing rear 3rd spring functionality (copy error while converting from my internal sheet)
EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.95 released, fixing heave motion ratio issues on various cars

Ye olde thread, with ye olde videos! (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985)

Here ye, here ye, the preliminary version of the suspension calculator for Project CARS 2 is upon us. I haven't had time to prepare anything for this release other than the calculator itself and some very basic instructions. In the near future I intend to make some videos explaining it a bit more, but those of you familiar with my work on the Project CARS suspension calculator of yore can get a start on it now, as well as those clever enough to figure it out by themselves. =)

The download link be here:


Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.996(b) for Excel and OpenOffice/LibreOffice Zip (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uO16E6yAugfFfOEJFxDHWHNF7jUCwok9/view?usp=sharing)

MD5 for Zip: F29A37691EC492658CDE11376EDB6A6C

Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.996(b) for Excel and OpenOffice/LibreOffice 7Zip (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBGabtT7-bXu4fkK0e0vgUHfzmCDpT54/view?usp=sharing)

MD5 for 7z: D03ED8B5A12478EE4C83201393032871

The archive has the calculator in two formats, .ods and .xlms. The ODS version works great in OpenOffice for me, but not in LibreOffice (macros don't work), and the Excel version works in Excel, as you'd expect (EDIT: Except apparently people are having trouble opening it up in Excel versions before 2010. I can't confirm since I don't have access to multiple versions, but people have reported having issues with it).

The calculator has changed appearance somewhat, but the functionality is more or less as before: Use the GREEN cells to adjust values, read the metrics from the top (suspension frequencies) and bottom (critical damping ratios), check the graphs for a general look of the situation.

Step 1 is to select a car. Do this by selecting the cell with the name of the car and opening up the dropdown list (it's a bit behind the Reset button on OpenOffice since the layering in it is stupid).

Step 2 you hit the Reset button (as long as your macros are enabled), this will reset all the values to "default" settings (should be the same as Stable, but can be a bit out of date).

Step 3 adjust springs. See the frequencies to the right of the springs? That's how stiff the car is, no matter what the numbers on the springs are (this has to do with motion ratios and weight distribution). Two cars that have different weight but the same frequency are equally stiff. It's common for racing cars to have at least 10-30% stiffer front end for sharp front end response and good rear traction. Softer increases mechanical grip, harder makes things sharper and more stable aero wise. Non-aero race cars tend to be in the two, three Hz range, med aero cars (like GT3) tend to be in the 2.5-4.0 Hz range, for high aero cars sky is the limit (you want a solid aero platform on them and don't care about mechanical grip as much). Note that in Project CARS 2 some cars have third springs that act only for up and down motion (the opposite to swaybars that only act for roll), so you can differentiate between the two. For example you can make the car softer for cornering by using soft springs in the corners, but still able to support the aero load by adding 3rd springs to stiffen up that side.

Step 4 adjust dampers. I'll add more to this, but for dead simplicity try to stay between the blue lines in the graph, towards the stiffer side. Below center is bump, above center is rebound. The further away from center you go the stiffer you are. For the "critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range. I usually go with about 80% critical for rebound and 50% critical for bump.

Rules of thumb:

Stiffer = less grip, and vice versa, for springs, swaybars and dampers alike. There are exceptions but as long as you're within the guidelines this is generally true. A notable caveat is aero, you want to make sure that works as well as possible.

For stability, make the front stiffer than the rear in all categories, but don't exaggerate.

Try to avoid compensating one area with another. If your springs are much stiffer at the rear and you compensate by stiffening the dampers and swaybars at the front, you'll usually create a car that can react unpredictably in different situations. Some cars like road cars though do this by design in many cases, for other reasons. Rarely any need for that in racing.

Don't go below average of 50% critical on the damping, the car will take a long time to settle down from bumps.

Going beyond 100% critical on the damping means you're making the suspension slower at getting back to a neutral position. You might want this for a very stable aero platform on an open-wheeler, but it's generally not a great idea for mechanical grip.

For circuit racing it's common to have the rebound damping significantly stiffer than the bump damping. Exceptions exist though, like some GT3 cars that want to work the tyres hard with stiff bump damping. For rally and uneven surfaces you usually want to go with stiff bump and soft rebound. Experiment with different bump/rebound biases to find your own style!

Front wheel drive cars are just wacky and have insane setups, don't try to apply rear wheel drive logic to those!

People have done and continue to do weird stuff in real life, so don't be surprised if a default setup looks odd in the calculator. I talk in generalities and approximations, sometimes a seemingly weird solution can work great.

The Lotus 38 has a very asymmetric construction, not just asymmetric settings. That's why I split it into two halves.

Roger Prynne
01-10-2017, 23:28
Thanks for all your hard work Jussi.

Jussi Karjalainen
01-10-2017, 23:33
Sticky, maybe?

Roger Prynne
01-10-2017, 23:33
Done.

bmanic
02-10-2017, 00:02
This is so awesome!! Your calculator adds a tremendous extra value to the game and even more depth (if that's even possible!). I can't wait to get working with this tomorrow to fine tune my setups and truly explore and understand what's going on.

Thank you so much. Your work is tremendously valuable and highly appreciated!

Sessionerror
02-10-2017, 05:02
Thank you so much Jussi! I wouldn't know how to do a proper setup without your amazing calculator :D

Aldo Zampatti
02-10-2017, 05:04
Impressive. Thanks..!

4dri3l
02-10-2017, 05:16
Thank you sir... hope the partnership with project cars setups site happen again...

chieflongshin
02-10-2017, 06:22
Is there a way to download this for Mac please? Not sure if i'm being dim.

Renoldo1990
02-10-2017, 09:41
Perfect! Thanks!

I just created my first setup with the calculator and it works great. If you are used to the Pcars-1-suspension-calculator you will get used to this 'new' calculator quite fast.

There is only one question left for me. Which %-Values should i aim for at 10 in/s.?

bulls23
02-10-2017, 09:46
Now I can finally start racing for real...PCARS 1 only started making sence for me after stumbling upon your calculator and I'm pretty sure same goes for PCARS 2. Thank you very much Jussi!

Jussi Karjalainen
02-10-2017, 15:03
There is only one question left for me. Which %-Values should i aim for at 10 in/s.?That's up to you.

That particular figure is a "percentage of corner weight", i.e. it relates directly to the force acting on the damper divided by the weight of the car. 100% = force on the damper is equal to the weight of the car for that spring/damper combination. So higher figures there will mean that when hitting a big bump you'll transfer a lot of force into the body, potentially making it kick up harshly.

Note that there's no single right or wrong value here, because it depends on the rest of the setup directly. If you use stiff springs, you need stiff dampers to control them. Stiffer dampers mean more damping force, so stiff springs -> higher 10 in/s figures, especially on a light car. You'll be seeing much lower figures in the relatively softly sprung and heavy road cars than in tightly sprung light open-wheelers simply due to the need to control the springs with enough damping.

EDIT: Also since the 10 in/s figure, especially in bump, partially relates to forces soaked up by the damper and hence transmitted into the body vs. being soaked up by the spring and not transferred to the body, running too low on the 10 in/s bump damping can mean the tyres struggle to keep in contact with the ground, and can cause more suspension compression than is desired. It's a balancing act.

bockboy
02-10-2017, 16:23
looks interesting....but god knows how to use it...can someone enlighten me please

Roger Prynne
02-10-2017, 16:25
Jussi explains it in the OP.

bockboy
02-10-2017, 17:00
Jussi explains it in the OP.

yes he explains a little bit but im brain dead...lol. so need a better explanation but he does say he will explain better in the future so maybe ill have to wait.

Jussi Karjalainen
02-10-2017, 19:07
yes he explains a little bit but im brain dead...lol. so need a better explanation but he does say he will explain better in the future so maybe ill have to wait.Hang tight, and in the meanwhile you can check the old pCARS1 calculator thread here for a starter course (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985). It looks a bit different what with the new options in pCARS 2, but the basics are the same.

I'll be making some instructional videos and explanations in the future, but it's an on the side thing that I do whenever I have a chance.

interallsorts
02-10-2017, 19:51
Standing ovation yet again

Racefancy
02-10-2017, 23:13
Cheers for this, my biggest issue with racing sims is not knowing the ride frequencies which is what's really required to do it properly. May I ask how you obtained the motion ratios for the cars in the game?

PervasiveFall8
02-10-2017, 23:26
So is the default set up for Toyota040 and AudiR18 just incredibly loose or is it some setup bug. I'm on my second career play through and I had hard time with Toyota so I picked Audi and doing the same thing rear wipes out on braking which immediately tell me set decel diff for more locking except both play throughs when I do save set up it's using a different car (this time it's my Indy car setup names and last time it was my GT4 setup names so I'm not even sure if any of the setting on the "default are default"
At COTA I got the car to behave sort of by upping viscous to 4750, adding preload, but now I'm wiping out full on downforce, not doing gear changes, keeping a measure of throttle applied.

Very frustrating- I just have to get through 2hours and I get triple crown and twice top tier and the car is not cooperating at all. Guess after it's all done I'll take it by itself to track and test. It my setting currently should be good for max stability under breaking and it's like I have them the other way. Be nice if telem showed what is happening to the car to prove driver or car error.
---
Edited:
So I guess the setting took on race but not on quali- as expected my decel dif Setting made car stiff- no spins at all under decel- I guess it just some sort of issue saving settings or something- when I reset to default - then adjusted dif/ brakes then save itblitterally would want to save as my Indy settings and at ZIA when I was at LeMans.

Jussi Karjalainen
02-10-2017, 23:30
Cheers for this, my biggest issue with racing sims is not knowing the ride frequencies which is what's really required to do it properly. May I ask how you obtained the motion ratios for the cars in the game?Through careful study of the cars, either via CAD data, manuals/homologation documents, measuring existing samples or when no such concrete evidence was available through photoanalysis and research.

And speaking of motion ratios, I made a small booboo on the spreadsheet, I forgot to copy over the 1:1 heave motion ratios for cars with live rear axle construction, so the roll vs. heave rates on those will be off until I get that fixed. Hopefully I'll have time to do it tomorrow. Sorry for the mistake.

Racefancy
02-10-2017, 23:36
Through careful study of the cars, either via CAD data, manuals/homologation documents, measuring existing samples or when no such concrete evidence was available through photoanalysis and research.

And speaking of motion ratios, I made a small booboo on the spreadsheet, I forgot to copy over the 1:1 heave motion ratios for cars with live rear axle construction, so the roll vs. heave rates on those will be off until I get that fixed. Hopefully I'll have time to do it tomorrow. Sorry for the mistake.Excellent, that's some impressive dedication, appreciate your hard work!

bockboy
03-10-2017, 00:05
Hang tight, and in the meanwhile you can check the old pCARS1 calculator thread here for a starter course. It looks a bit different what with the new options in pCARS 2, but the basics are the same.

I'll be making some instructional videos and explanations in the future, but it's an on the side thing that I do whenever I have a chance.

yeah cheers buddy i appreciate it and i'm sure everyone else in the forum does as well

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 00:41
Well it's all a side effect of the work done on every single car in the game really, I just transfer what we learn into the calculator post hoc. =)

KAWIGREEN
03-10-2017, 02:03
Hi Jussi,

I loved your calculator from PC1 and I'm excited to see what this version can do. One question, I can't seem to select any other car but the Acura NSX. No other option from a dropdown... Can you help? Thanks!

DeathMetalRacer
03-10-2017, 03:44
When I open the calculator in excel there is nothing there. Surely I must be doing something wrong...

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 07:10
Hi Jussi,

I loved your calculator from PC1 and I'm excited to see what this version can do. One question, I can't seem to select any other car but the Acura NSX. No other option from a dropdown... Can you help? Thanks!Which file, what program?


When I open the calculator in excel there is nothing there. Surely I must be doing something wrong...Sounds like you're either trying to open up the .ods file in Excel (won't work for some reason) or you possibly got a corrupted download.

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 07:51
Version 0.95 released, fixing heave motion ratio issues on various cars, check first post and update for all the latest corrections.

Racing4Life
03-10-2017, 08:41
There is no "Car-Dropdown" with Excel 2007, though Macros are enabled. :)

So I'm only able to use it with the Acura NSX. Could you please tell me which Excel-Version is the minimum requirement?

4dri3l
03-10-2017, 09:10
Hi Jussi, here I use the libreoffice and it works fine, just needed to enable macros in security options...

punkdog69
03-10-2017, 12:47
There is no "Car-Dropdown" with Excel 2007, though Macros are enabled. :)

So I'm only able to use it with the Acura NSX. Could you please tell me which Excel-Version is the minimum requirement?

Same here

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 14:47
I'm using the latest version of Excel (via Office 365 subscription) and I try to keep my OpenOffice up to date, and that's about the only choices I have for confirming functionality. Sorry that I can't check functionality on older versions of Excel. =(

If you can't use the latest version of Excel, I suggest you get OpenOffice (it's free) and use that, the functionality is the same.

Fractured Life
03-10-2017, 14:54
Jussi you are a king amongst men.

brezza
03-10-2017, 16:47
Thanks for calculator ...trying to understand it....
One thing doesnt work as I can see ...When I try to choose value for the third rear spring I always got result of 0 ?!!? car is Ligier JS P3.
And also rebound transition??

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 17:27
Thanks for calculator ...trying to understand it....
One thing doesnt work as I can see ...When I try to choose value for the third rear spring I always got result of 0 ?!!? car is Ligier JS P3.
And also rebound transition??Version 0.96 released, fixing rear 3rd spring functionality (copy error while converting from my internal sheet). Sorry about that, thanks for finding it for me.

What rebound transition specifically, I couldn't find a problem in them? The sheet allows you to set values that are not found in the game, maybe you're just running into that?

brezza
03-10-2017, 18:13
Ok thanks for fix going to download now....
It was about rebound transition at front and rear wheels, same thing like it was for 3rd spring...but let me check now new version.

Ok now works 3rd rear spring for ligier JS P3, but my fault for rebound transition because there is no change in game settings for that for this car. Sorry and thx once again.

Wayne Kerr
03-10-2017, 19:08
Version 0.96 released, fixing rear 3rd spring functionality (copy error while converting from my internal sheet). Sorry about that, thanks for finding it for me.

What rebound transition specifically, I couldn't find a problem in them? The sheet allows you to set values that are not found in the game, maybe you're just running into that?

your jsp3 bar rates, those wheel rates or no?

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 20:06
Sway bar rates? Those are at the wheel IIRC. And yeah, the Ligier JS P2/3 cars have insanely stiff sway bars on them. Had to double check it myself when I first saw them.

Wayne Kerr
03-10-2017, 20:10
Sway bar rates? Those are at the wheel IIRC. And yeah, the Ligier JS P2/3 cars have insanely stiff sway bars on them. Had to double check it myself when I first saw them.

the shop manual setup with the 15mm front bar, even at soft position is 1000 N/mm wheel rate lmao

wheel rates are reasonable for the springs, the bars are insane.

AbeWoz
03-10-2017, 21:46
Jussi, are the values that load up in the calculator by default you 'base' values?

Edit: disregard. Didn't read the OP enough.

MJP
03-10-2017, 22:57
Hi Jussi,

I loved your calculator from PC1 and I'm excited to see what this version can do. One question, I can't seem to select any other car but the Acura NSX. No other option from a dropdown... Can you help? Thanks!

There is no "Car-Dropdown" with Excel 2007, though Macros are enabled. :)

So I'm only able to use it with the Acura NSX. Could you please tell me which Excel-Version is the minimum requirement?

Same here

I'm using Excel 2003 and what I find I have to do is put the car name in the 'formula bar', hit 'enter' then the Reset button. Then you have to do the same to change the other green box spring/damper/arb settings.

Car Name List :-


Acura NSX
Acura NSX GT3

Agajanian Watson Roadster Circuit
Agajanian Watson Roadster Oval

Aston Martin DB11
Aston Martin DBR1
Aston Martin Vantage GT12
Aston Martin Vantage GT3
Aston Martin Vantage GT4
Aston Martin Vantage GTE
Aston Martin Vulcan

Audi 90 IMSA GTO
Audi A1 Quattro
Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro
Audi R8 LMP900
Audi R8 LMS
Audi R8 V10+
Audi V8 DTM

BAC Mono

Bentley Continental GT3
Bentley Speed 8

BMW 1-Series M Coupe
BMW 1-Series M Coupe StanceWorks
BMW 2002 StanceWorks
BMW 2002 Turbo
BMW 320 TC
BMW 320i Turbo Gr.5
BMW M1 Procar
BMW M3 E30 Gr.A
BMW M3 GT4
BMW M6 GT3
BMW M6 GTLM
BMW V12 LMR
BMW Z4 GT3

Cadillac ATS-V.R GT3

Caterham 620r
Caterham SP/300.R

Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 Trans-Am '69
Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1
Chevrolet Corvette C7 Z06/Z07
Chevrolet Corvette C7.R

Dallara DW12 Oval
Dallara DW12 Road
Dallara DW12 Speedway Non-Oval

Ferrari 288 GTO
Ferrari 330 P4
Ferrari 333 SP
Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Competizione
Ferrari 488 GT3
Ferrari 488 GTE
Ferrari Enzo
Ferrari F40 LM
Ferrari F50 GT
Ferrari LaFerrari

Ford Capri Gr.5
Ford Escort RS1600
Ford Escort RX
Ford Escort Touring
Ford F150 Funhaver
Ford Falcon V8 Supercar
Ford Focus GRC
Ford Fusion
Ford Fusion Daytona
Ford Fusion Oval
Ford GT
Ford GT LM GTE
Ford Mk.IV
Ford Mustang Boss 302R1
Ford Mustang Cobra Trans-Am
Ford Mustang Fastback
Ford Mustang GT 2015
Ford Mustang RTR GT4
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500

Formula A
Formula C
Formula Renault 3.5
Formula Rookie
Formula X

Ginetta G40
Ginetta G40 GT5
Ginetta G55 GT3
Ginetta G55 GT4
Ginetta G57-P2
Ginetta LMP3

Honda 2&4 Concept
Honda Civic GRC
Honda Civic Type-R

Jaguar E-Type V12 Gr.44
Jaguar F-Type SVR
Jaguar XJ 220 S TWR
Jaguar XJR-9
Jaguar XJR-9 LM

KTM X-Bow GT4
KTM X-Bow R

Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4
Lamborghini Diablo GT-R
Lamborghini Huracan GT3
Lamborghini Huracan LP610-4
Lamborghini Huracan LP620-2 Super Trofeo
Lamborghini Sesto Elemento
Lamborghini Veneno LP750-4

Ligier JS P2 Honda
Ligier JS P2 Judd
Ligier JS P2 Nissan
Ligier JS P3

Lotus 25
Lotus 38 Left
Lotus 38 Right
Lotus 40
Lotus 49
Lotus 49C
Lotus 51
Lotus 56 Circuit
Lotus 72D
Lotus 78
Lotus 98T

Marek RP219d LMP2
Marek RP339h LMP1

Mazda Radbul

McLaren 570S
McLaren 650S GT3
McLaren 720S
McLaren F1
McLaren F1 GTR
McLaren P1
McLaren P1 GTR

Mercedes-AMG A45 4MATIC
Mercedes-AMG A45 RX
Mercedes-AMG A45 TCR
Mercedes-AMG C63 Coupe S
Mercedes-AMG GT R
Mercedes-AMG GT3
Mercedes-Benz 190E Evo2 DTM
Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.8 AMG
Mercedes-Benz 300SL W194
Mercedes-Benz CLK LM
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
Mercedes-Sauber C9

MINI Countryman RX

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX FQ-360
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI SVA
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X FQ-400

Nissan 280ZX IMSA GTX
Nissan 300ZX Turbo IMSA GTO
Nissan Fairlady
Nissan GT-R GT3
Nissan GT-R Nismo 2017
Nissan GTP ZX-Turbo
Nissan R390 GT1
Nissan R89C
Nissan R89C LM
Nissan Skyline GT-R BNR32 Gr.A
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 SMS-R
Nissan Skyline KDR30 Super Silhouette

Olsbergs MSE Supercar Lites

Opel Astra TCR

Oreca 03

Pagani Huayra
Pagani Zonda Cinque Roadster
Pagani Zonda Revolucion

Panoz Esperante GTR-1

Porsche 911 GT1 1998
Porsche 911 GT3 R
Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Porsche 918 Wiessach Package
Porsche 935
Porsche 936/77
Porsche 962C
Porsche 962C LH
Porsche Cayman GT4 ClubSport

Radical RXC Turbo
Radical SR3
Radical SR8

Renault Alpine A442B
Renault Clio Cup
Renault Megane R.S.275 Trophy-R
Renault Megane RX
Renault Megane TCR
Renault Megane Trophy II
Renault RS01
Renault RS01 GT3

RWD P20 LMP2
RWD P30 LMP1

Toyota GT-One 1998
Toyota GT-One 1999
Toyota GT86
Toyota GT86 Rocket Bunny GT4
Toyota GT86 Rocket Bunny Street
Toyota TS040

Volkswagen Polo RX

Jussi Karjalainen
03-10-2017, 23:20
Honestly guys, I'm pretty sure installing OpenOffice would be a smaller bother... =/

Racing4Life
04-10-2017, 07:09
Honestly guys, I'm pretty sure installing OpenOffice would be a smaller bother... =/
Guess I'll upgrade to Office 2016. Just cheched and everything worked. But I've liked to know what is the minimum requirement, so I've checked some versions at the office. With Excel 2010 and above all is working fine, though I kinda miss the comments of the PC1-calculator. :) But Hey, its not even v1. ;)

bulls23
04-10-2017, 09:32
This might sound like an irrelevant / stupid question...but can someone tell me if the car names differ in the different language versions of the game? I just did some setups and basically all of the cars I chose had different names than in the spread sheet and some times it's not that clear which one is which, especially if that car is available in 3 or 4 versions. Is this because car names did changed during release?

VelvetTorpedo
04-10-2017, 18:37
I'm having a blast going through my favorite cars and making the wild ones 10%-30% stiffer front and 80%/50% critical motion ratio's as Jussi uses. In a few hours I can go home and check to see if the numbers I generated will see gains on track.

CAPTAIN CHEDDAH
04-10-2017, 19:28
Hang tight, and in the meanwhile you can check the old pCARS1 calculator thread here for a starter course. It looks a bit different what with the new options in pCARS 2, but the basics are the same.

I'll be making some instructional videos and explanations in the future, but it's an on the side thing that I do whenever I have a chance.

Can I get a link to the PC1 starter course please? Can't seem to find it. (I feel like you were supposed to leave a link in that first sentence but maybe forgot) :D

Also, "For the "critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range.", is this the "total damping force at 3in./s in roll/heave"? I've searched the word critical on the sheet and nothing so I'm confused.

VelvetTorpedo
04-10-2017, 19:39
hopefully I'm doing this right. This is for the Jaguar XJR9:

Default setup
241854

My setup
241855

I think I'm pretty close but a second set of eyes confirming would be amazing

F1_Racer68
04-10-2017, 20:03
hopefully I'm doing this right. This is for the Jaguar XJR9:

Default setup
241854

My setup
241855

I think I'm pretty close but a second set of eyes confirming would be amazing

Assuming I have been using the old one correctly all along, it looks right to me......... BUt of course, I will defer to the master himself, LOL

Oomph
04-10-2017, 21:42
hopefully I'm doing this right. This is for the Jaguar XJR9:

Default setup
241854

My setup
241855

I think I'm pretty close but a second set of eyes confirming would be amazing


I have never tried it with pcars 1, and only started using this yesterday with pcars 2. From my understand of what I have read here, your graphs look good but will also let the experts be the judge of it and take the info onboard.

SGETI
04-10-2017, 23:02
Line 16 17 also rear line 23 24. Can the use of these line be explained a little bit more and what is the range we should try to achieve? Is there a range? I noticed 'velvet' changed these values. look forward to using this tool in the future.

Thanks again.

Jussi Karjalainen
04-10-2017, 23:21
Yeah, that looks good, though it's of course just a baseline and not the goal, and may not suit all cars. If you for example feel the front end is a bit floppy, you can towards the stiffest of the three bump guidelines, or do whatever you want. FWIW I generally like my front bumps to be closer to the 60-70% mark, rear in the 40-50% range. Sharp steering response, pliable rear end.

Rather than an absolute truth, the calculator in the long run is more intended to give you reference points, so that you know where you start from and where you're going, how big of a change a given step is, etc. instead of adjusting blindly. "I'm here now, lets see what happens if I go here." "My car is bouncy, are my dampers not stiff enough?" "The rear end feels unstable, is it too stiff or perhaps too soft?"

Can I get a link to the PC1 starter course please? Can't seem to find it. (I feel like you were supposed to leave a link in that first sentence but maybe forgot) :D

Also, "For the "critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range.", is this the "total damping force at 3in./s in roll/heave"? I've searched the word critical on the sheet and nothing so I'm confused.Sorry about that, yeah the links went missing for some reason. I have two here:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide-3f-and-case-studies-now-live!&p=1017700&viewfull=1#post1017700

And yes, that's the correct figure, you got it right.
Line 16 17 also rear line 23 24. Can the use of these line be explained a little bit more and what is the range we should try to achieve? Is there a range? I noticed 'velvet' changed these values. look forward to using this tool in the future.

Thanks again.They move the transition point from slow to fast damping (this is the bend in the graph). This enables you to for example tailor a damper that is very stiff initially in slow damping for very rigid body control, but transitions early to fast damping so that when hitting bumps you don't have super duper stiff damping. Or vice versa, you can push out the transition point further and further so that you're running slow damping most of the time.

If you don't know what you want, sticking to the 2-4 in/s range (the guidelines have the transition at 3 in/s, aim close to that) is usually more than good enough.

Wayne Kerr
05-10-2017, 13:54
some good stuff snipped

quick question. does contact patch load variation contribute to building heat in the tires in the game or no.

normally i wouldn't even ask if there's a plugin for data aq, but obviously such "luxury item" is not avail yet :p

F1_Racer68
05-10-2017, 15:48
quick question. does contact patch load variation contribute to building heat in the tires in the game or no.

normally i wouldn't even ask if there's a plugin for data aq, but obviously such "luxury item" is not avail yet :p

I use Z1 Analyzer. It currently still only supports the pCARS1 data output, but they are planning an update to provide the pCARS2 data streams. Not sure what data will be in those new streams, but I have long requested that full vehicle data be included (suspension travel, tire loads, etc.). Ideally, I would love to see some form of MoTeC or Atlas compatibility. I would like to think that the McLaren license/partnership could lead to future Atlas support.......

VelvetTorpedo
05-10-2017, 15:50
I didnt try those XJR9 numbers I posted, but I did try the group A skyline numbers i came up with yesterday and its a night and day difference. Such a better baseline to make a fast setup!


Is there a fast way to dial in camber? I feel like I'm stabbing in the dark with trial and error more often than not when it comes to camber :(.

Wayne Kerr
05-10-2017, 17:00
I use Z1 Analyzer. It currently still only supports the pCARS1 data output, but they are planning an update to provide the pCARS2 data streams. Not sure what data will be in those new streams, but I have long requested that full vehicle data be included (suspension travel, tire loads, etc.). Ideally, I would love to see some form of MoTeC or Atlas compatibility. I would like to think that the McLaren license/partnership could lead to future Atlas support.......

never used atlas. i usually use the other 3 (i2p, toolbox, wintax) depending on where I am that particular week. But yah, if I had to build math up again for another software that i'll use only for hobby (in this case being Atlas), I'd probably just go screw it and drive by "feel" instead.

Dynomight Motorsports
05-10-2017, 23:03
In your previous calculator you used Recommended damper settings in a little block that I would use to get an idea of how I wanted the car to feel. Also some of the blocks would give you explanations of what each setting does. I kind of miss that, I find myself coming on here to look at your original post to get the percentages of every car I try to setup. Did you say that is something that only works with Open Office? I'm also at a bit of a loss with what to do with the two bottom numbers (Transition amounts) in the damper settings and how it all ties together.

Oomph
06-10-2017, 00:10
Hi Jussi, thank you so much for this brilliant work, can i ask.... is there a way to save/add a spreadsheet/worksheet within the workbook. so that i can have the cars i am working with itemized in their own worksheet selectable from the bottom. as at the moment say i am working on the ford falcon v8SC and then pick a new car say Acura NSX GT3, hit reset, make changes here, then go back to the V8 SC and previous settings are gone. The only way i imagine to do this now would be to create a directory where i would "Save As" and give it the appropriate car name. No major drama thought. just wanted to know if there was a way and i 100% understand the protection.

Phil

toold
07-10-2017, 14:48
Macros in LibreOffice seem to work as well. You only have to change the security settings in options/security to allow the execution of them

Jussi Karjalainen
08-10-2017, 00:08
Macros in LibreOffice seem to work as well. You only have to change the security settings in options/security to allow the execution of themYeah for some reason they started working for me as well suddenly. I have no idea what could have caused it, basically it was like "nope, works perfectly in openoffice, not a damn thing in libre after hours of trying", then a day later "oh, I guess it now works in libre as well".

Libre has ALWAYS been a real bastard for me with inconsistent issues...

Phos
08-10-2017, 02:47
Hmmmm, changing the ARB stiffness isn't altering the roll frequency, but it seems like it should. Am I wrong?

Also, what is the value in S5 and S6?

Jussi Karjalainen
08-10-2017, 03:57
Hmmmm, changing the ARB stiffness isn't altering the roll frequency, but it seems like it should. Am I wrong?

Also, what is the value in S5 and S6?For the frequencies I only consider "springs" and not swaybars.

I had actually forgotten what the S5 and S6 values were, but they are actually in fact roll frequencies for front and rear with swaybars included. :D

Phos
08-10-2017, 07:04
For the frequencies I only consider "springs" and not swaybars.

I had actually forgotten what the S5 and S6 values were, but they are actually in fact roll frequencies for front and rear with swaybars included. :D

Oh interesting, because I wanted to mess around with Formula X suspension setups that largely forgo conventional springs and are sprung almost entirely by heave and ARB.

Dynomight Motorsports
08-10-2017, 20:44
Perhaps I'm doing it wrong but I can only get the Audi GT3 rear rebounds to about 63-67%

Wayne Kerr
08-10-2017, 21:58
Perhaps I'm doing it wrong but I can only get the Audi GT3 rear rebounds to about 63-67%

you're doing it wrong

at a certain combo with that car, i can see (roll and heave) 147% rear rebound damping at 3 in/s; 99 at 10in/s

not that you'd ever run it at those, but you can get it there.

Jussi Karjalainen
08-10-2017, 22:20
Yeah, with the default transition force and maximum slow and fast settings it'll go to 120% at 3 in/s and 94% at 10 in/s. Wayne's combo seems to be max slow and fast + max rebound transition and minimum rear springs.

At maximum full stiff rebound (max slow, max fast, max transition) and stiffest rear springs you still get 115% at 3 in/s. and 99% at in/s. (Note how 3 in/s figure is affected by spring rate, while 10 in/s figure isn't. That's because the 3 in/s figure is critical damping ratio, which takes into account the weight and the springs, while the 10 in/s figure is just in relation to weight.)

EDIT: Now that I remember what they were, I think I'll add them to the next version properly.

Wayne Kerr
08-10-2017, 22:31
Yeah, with the default transition force and maximum slow and fast settings it'll go to 120% at 3 in/s and 94% at 10 in/s. Wayne's combo seems to be max slow and fast + max rebound transition and minimum rear springs.

At maximum full stiff rebound (max slow, max fast, max transition) and stiffest rear springs you still get 115% at 3 in/s. and 99% at in/s. (Note how 3 in/s figure is affected by spring rate, while 10 in/s figure isn't. That's because the 3 in/s figure is critical damping ratio, which takes into account the weight and the springs, while the 10 in/s figure is just in relation to weight.)

it is.

i wasn't using it to build a reasonable setup, i was running the numbers to see what the highest I can get em to.

btw Jussi, this thing is as good as some of the stuff I've seen used in real life. three different tracks, same process (different numbers of course) and same car, the "out of the box" setup built with this thing was competitive as hell. Thanks for sharing. I know people who would pay a pretty penny to have this in real life situations; I know I would :D

VelvetTorpedo
11-10-2017, 12:45
This calculator is pure magic. Every car I touch with it's enchanted numbers drives so much better.

H1LLIER
12-10-2017, 10:23
Thank you Jussi for your work on this. I have absolutely no idea how to work it yet but I know this will be an invaluable tool once I've got the hang of it

Jussi Karjalainen
12-10-2017, 13:17
This calculator is pure magic.I made pretty dang sure it was pure maths, rather than magic. That was kind of the point. =)

F1_Racer68
12-10-2017, 14:00
I made pretty dang sure it was pure maths, rather than magic. That was kind of the point. =)

But math IS magic! :D

Bealdor
12-10-2017, 16:40
Moved to car setup talk.

interallsorts
13-10-2017, 20:16
Hi Jussi, the calculator is brilliant and gives someone like me with little set up knowledge a chance at building a set up with some confidence.

apologies if this has been asked elsewhere but looked and couldn't find!

Can you give an explanation of the roll bias and how I can use this to help with tuning a set up. Is there a guideline on what I should be aiming for with this?

Jussi Karjalainen
14-10-2017, 04:08
The roll-bias is kind of the effect of the springs and swaybars combined in roll, showing the front/rear distribution. For example 60% front means that out of the total of front spring in roll + rear spring in roll + front swaybar + rear swaybar, 60% is coming from front spring and swaybar. It's kind of a way to tell the balance of the car in roll, and was one of my first attempts at trying to get a relevant metric for adjusting swaybars in combination with springs.

It doesn't really work too well because it doesn't take into account the roll centres of the front and rear suspension. For example on an LMP1 car the front roll centre can be fairly low down, while rear one can be much higher up. If you measure the difference in height between the roll centre and the center of gravity of the car, you get what amounts to the length of an imaginary "lever". The closer the roll centre height to the CoG height, the shorter the lever. So in the LMP1 example you'd have a long lever at the front and a short lever at the rear, meaning you'll need stiffer springs/swaybars at the front to get the same effective roll resistance as the rear (similarly to how the motion ratio of the suspension affects effective spring rate). That's one of the reasons why you might see an LMP1 car run very little swaybar at the rear and a ton of it at the front.

Generally it's intended more to be a reference point than an absolute value, and in the upcoming versions the roll frequency metrics with swaybars included might be a better source anyway.

interallsorts
14-10-2017, 07:19
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I,'ll concentrate on frequency and percentages for now. Sounds like you've got an epic update planned for the calculator, looking forward to the next update.

phildenty
14-10-2017, 08:18
Jussi

I know this has been said before but your calculator and calculations have helped me tremendously

Thanks for the hard work you put into this

satissounds
14-10-2017, 11:17
Hi Jussi,

Just come across your calculator and i think it's brilliant. Didn't know how to use it at first but i watched one of your vids. Using the percentage guides you mentioned, I've tried it on a few cars and straight away they seem much more balanced. Still learning how to use it. Thank you for all your hard work.

thydney1970
14-10-2017, 14:41
Jussi you tool is as always awesome and big help finding proper settings. Thanks a lot and your fantastic.

Just some thoughs for future versions. it would be great and I guess I'm not the only one, if all the cells without formulas behind would be not protected, then everybody coult put in some helpful note or own reference values behind the setting. Helpful would be of course, if you could put the recommendations, by example behind the calculated value "critical damping at 3 in/s" 70-90% as reference/help. Also on other settings. This would make it more easier to calculate everything, otherwise you have always to change between your guide and the calculator. if not posssible, it would be an idea to copy in your guide from page 1 here directly into the file. Would be very nice.

ApexSight
14-10-2017, 16:25
I discovered your suspension calculator and after some reading and videos watching, I started to use it on my beloved BMW M6 GT3.
The result wasn't there, with the setup from the suspension calculator, as soon as I hit the throttle, i'll spin (this is not the case on the default "stable" setup)

Where is my mistake ?

242815

Thanks for your attention :)

takaii
14-10-2017, 22:14
i have tried this...

i really dont get what numbers i should get or how to manipulate them in a way that is possitive. I read the guide from the original poster.
Thankful for him to put this together. but atm i have no use for it because i really dont get it. Ive tried read again and again how to use it.

is there anyone that have time to explain for a noob in a way a noob understands it?

JyriK
15-10-2017, 18:13
Where is my mistake ?

You have ignored all the other setup areas like camber, ride height etc. etc. There is your mistake.

Jussi Karjalainen
15-10-2017, 21:55
Haven't had a chance to look at that setup in practice yet, but on the surface it looks fine. What do your differential values look like?

phos4us
15-10-2017, 22:18
I discovered your suspension calculator and after some reading and videos watching, I started to use it on my beloved BMW M6 GT3.
The result wasn't there, with the setup from the suspension calculator, as soon as I hit the throttle, i'll spin (this is not the case on the default "stable" setup)

Where is my mistake ?

242815

Thanks for your attention :)

Apex,

Like other posters have commented, you need to look at the rest of the components of your setup. Given you are a fan of the stable default setup, then you are probably way more comfortable with understeer than oversteer. Jussi's setup calculator gives a generally balanced setup, which probably feels much a lot looser than you are used to/comfortable with. This is especially true on power given that the stable setups have the diff settings turned to the conservative side. You probably want to evaluate the diff settings on the stable setup and use Jussi's differential calculator to identify a diff setup that is comparable. Further, the suspension calculator doesn't really take into consideration the effect that other settings like camber, caster, toe, pressures, downforce and brake balance have on the balance of the car. If you are suffering power on oversteer, it is most likely due to a combination of a heavy right foot and too much power differential locking. The fix is to increase power ramp until you can control the rear end with your throttle.

Terrell Olvera
15-10-2017, 22:21
This calculator is brilliant.

It was already made clear what S5 and S6 were, but what about D28 and D30?

JyriK
15-10-2017, 22:29
This calculator is brilliant.

It was already made clear what S5 and S6 were, but what about D28 and D30?

Just the averages of the front and rear damping forces: (bump + rebound)/2

ApexSight
16-10-2017, 08:20
Haven't had a chance to look at that setup in practice yet, but on the surface it looks fine. What do your differential values look like?

My diff is pretty close to the default stable setting :

Preload :100 Nm
Clutch : 2
Power ramp : 45°
Coast ramp 25°

As for the other settigns, I did not leave them behind :

A bit less pressure in the rear tires (1.37 bar instead of 1.40) with 3.5° in camber instead of 3.2°.
Toe front : -0.2°
Toe rear : 0.4°

I think I also reduced the rear anti roll bar to 10 Nm instead of 20 Nm.

1.48.xx @Monza and 1.45.xx @Imola are times I could think of.

I tested this calculator because spring and dampers are kind of a shadow area to me.

I appreciate your answers :)

JyriK
16-10-2017, 08:56
Just looking at the numbers, differential looks quite open and the (cold) tyre pressures too low. I'd suggest doubling the clutches (2 -> 4) and increasing the pressures to 1.5 bar, and see if there's improvement. Warm up the tyres first.

takaii
16-10-2017, 09:44
i have tried this...

i really dont get what numbers i should get or how to manipulate them in a way that is possitive. I read the guide from the original poster.
Thankful for him to put this together. but atm i have no use for it because i really dont get it. Ive tried read again and again how to use it.

is there anyone that have time to explain for a noob in a way a noob understands it?

bump... guess no one has time to explain it... anyway thanks if anyone can help me out

bmanic
16-10-2017, 10:23
Did you watch the Youtube videos?

takaii
16-10-2017, 11:15
Did you watch the Youtube videos?


*Edited this post*
I manage to google the videos you refeered to. I didnt even know there was a video explaining it so didnt thought of searching lol.
sharing here for others. I need to watch now and come back with questions if there is something that is confusing


Here is one explaining it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_t2cJcknM

another explaining an update

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Asj0KtyNg

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 11:23
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22501-Project-Cars-Tuning-Guide-3f-and-case-studies-now-live!&p=1017700&viewfull=1#post1017700

Jussi Karjalainen
16-10-2017, 11:34
I was sure I had linked those threads in my original post, but apparently I hadn't. I'll get on that later today after work.

Wayne Kerr
16-10-2017, 14:50
bump... guess no one has time to explain it... anyway thanks if anyone can help me out

if you break it down in the simplest form,, the calculator lets you rough this in:

let's say you have a car that you really like for example say oh i dunno the 650 GT3. The ride freq of that setup is 4 hz in front, 3hz in the rear (i'm just pulling numbers out of thin air as an example). You have a front and rear bump damping at 0.5 and front and rear rebound at 0.8 (again, as an example).

If you hop over to an audi, and then set a baseline setup to make those ride frequency and damping ratios as your target, chances are you'll feel the audi drives "almost" identical to your mclaren.

obviously it's a bit more involved than that in the real world because a bunch of other factors come into play that are inherently different when you change cars, but at least for the gaming application you can rough in your setup to about a 95% efficiency going that route.

It works cross platform as well, to an extent. I've took an indycar setup and translated that into a lmp1 setup and then roughly translated that into a lmp3 setup and it drove almost the same at the same track (note, all highish downforce cars, with the exception of the p3 car); so there's nothing stopping you from doing that with a gt3 car and applying it to a gte or vice versa.

Jussi Karjalainen
16-10-2017, 16:23
In addition to that it can give you a sort of "scale" for making your own adjustments. How big is the gap between minimum and maximum springs? What does 50 N/mm mean in this car? Looking at the frequencies can give you a better idea than just looking at the numbers.

phos4us
17-10-2017, 03:59
@Apex,

If we plug those figures into Jussi's diff calculator, we get an accel locking (power on lock) of 16%. The base stable setup likely tends to understeer slightly, so a balanced suspension using the calculator will likely have less understeer than you are used to. Less understeer combined with no change to diff settings may cause the power on oversteer. Adding clutch packs will only make the oversteer worse for power on, since moving to 4 clutch packs increases the locking to 32%. More locking = power on oversteer and coast understeer. Try increasing the power ramp to 90. That will give 0% on power locking and will remove the diff from the equation. If it is still oversteering, then the problem is somewhere else. If it solves it, then reduce power ramp by 5 degrees and test for feel. 5 degrees of ramp equals 2-3% locking at 2 clutch packs. Repeat this until throttle helps steer with rotation to a little powerslide.

Another culprit could be that you may be suffering entry understeer. That would cause you to compensate with too much wheel input before power application with resulting power on oversteer. The coast diff can help you there also. Increase coast ramp incrementally to allow you some freedom under throttle off conditions (think turn in).

One thing that I recommend when evaluating suspension setups is to set aero to the minimum and both power and coast ramps to 90. This removes aero and diff from the equation and makes sure you can focus on balancing the setup. Once you have balanced the setup (neither the front or back breaks loose when you reach the limit of grip on the ideal line), then I move on to diff settings, then aero and the others. The car will be ridiculously free on power off though, so be prepared to catch it with a touch of throttle. Focus on one setting at a time. For example, once the suspension is balanced, I start reducing coast ramp until the car turns in at a rate that is comfortable for me and I don't have to introduce throttle until I want to. Once coast is set, I reduce the power ramp angle until the back end is almost slipping out in the slowest corners. The rest you can get from other guides on these forums.

ApexSight
17-10-2017, 08:36
Thanks a lot for your recommendations :D
I spent 2 hours on Imola and Laguna Seca to balance the car and I think I hit the sweet spot. Almost every settings have been changed from the default setup, I'll share it later, maybe in its own thread dedicated to the BMW M6 GT3 ? :confused:

Jussi Karjalainen
17-10-2017, 19:51
On the aero side, do keep in mind that ride height and spring stiffness plays heavily into how the aero will work at speed. The rake angle of the car (front vs. rear ride height) can make a massive difference in aerodynamic efficiency and center of pressure location, as does the overall ride height, and the stiffer your springs the less the suspension compresses under load. To keep the rake angle under control you basically have to balance between stiffer rear springs and higher rear ride height, neither of which is really that great for mechanical grip but is necessary to work the aero properly. Making a setup that works without aero might not be utilizing the aero effectively once you start to turn it up.

AbeWoz
17-10-2017, 19:53
On the aero side, do keep in mind that ride height and spring stiffness plays heavily into how the aero will work at speed. The rake angle of the car (front vs. rear ride height) can make a massive difference in aerodynamic efficiency and center of pressure location, as does the overall ride height, and the stiffer your springs the less the suspension compresses under load. To keep the rake angle under control you basically have to balance between stiffer rear springs and higher rear ride height, neither of which is really that great for mechanical grip but is necessary to work the aero properly. Making a setup that works without aero might not be utilizing the aero effectively once you start to turn it up.

Had an issue in AC where add 1 click of rear wing made the car too slow, but without it, couldn't go around the fastest corner of the track. Raised rear RH by 2mm and it made it perfect.

I've done similar in pCARS2 to get a tiny bit more grip on the rear without losing too much straight line speed.

bmanic
17-10-2017, 20:48
On the aero side, do keep in mind that ride height and spring stiffness plays heavily into how the aero will work at speed. The rake angle of the car (front vs. rear ride height) can make a massive difference in aerodynamic efficiency and center of pressure location, as does the overall ride height, and the stiffer your springs the less the suspension compresses under load. To keep the rake angle under control you basically have to balance between stiffer rear springs and higher rear ride height, neither of which is really that great for mechanical grip but is necessary to work the aero properly. Making a setup that works without aero might not be utilizing the aero effectively once you start to turn it up.

Rake angle adjustments and spring stiffness to keep the desired angle "stable" was the main tweaks I did to the Aston Martin Vulcan. That's one of the issues with the default setup, it's very oversteery even at high speeds due to the way the rake makes it feel like there's a front wing on the car. Setting the rake in such a way that the car is actually slightly understeering, that is moving the aero pressure to the rear, was the key to get that car stable.

Phos
18-10-2017, 01:08
This calculator is already really useful, but I'm finding that for a lot of cars that have third springs it seems like it would be advantageous to take ARBs into account for the graphs and percentages. I'm still trying to sort out my Formula X setup that almost exclusively uses heave and ARB but I'm not sure if I can really trust the calculator's outputs when so much of my spring rate in roll is coming from something that is seemingly ignored. Of course I've no idea how complicated it is to allow for this.

davidt33
18-10-2017, 02:40
Looks interesting. Haven't used it yet but just downloaded and will go over the instructions etc soon, most likely tomorrow, to learn it and hopefully apply to some tunes. Cheers bro. Very kind and generous of you.

Phos
19-10-2017, 04:24
Bug report: The Lancer SVA seems all wrong. The in game settings/range are different from the spreadsheet.

Jussi Karjalainen
19-10-2017, 16:35
Bug report: The Lancer SVA seems all wrong. The in game settings/range are different from the spreadsheet.Cheers, will look into it. An update is coming sometime next week hopefully.

tommysalami
21-10-2017, 16:24
Is it possible to update the spreadsheet to incorporate ride height and show things like roll center? I feel like without that, we're not getting the entire picture here

Jussi Karjalainen
21-10-2017, 22:33
Not really. Ride height doesn't really affect any of the settings in the spreadsheet directly, and roll centers aren't predefined, they move around as the suspension moves around. They would be necessary for full roll behavior tuning, true, but it's not really that possible without modeling the suspension of each car in the calculator.

JyriK
22-10-2017, 10:19
Jussi, what are your thoughts on overdamping soft springs, Colin Chapman -style? What might be the benefits of such an approach?

bmanic
22-10-2017, 13:50
I actually like that specific approach on a lot of the trackday and ordinary street cars. I seem to get the best compromise of overall grip AND also control over the car (unlike soft springs + soft/fast dampers which just makes the car feel sluggish).

So +1 from me on soft springs combined with way overdamped (stiff) dampers. Works like a charm. Especially when you use the motion ratios to get the transitions to the fast dampers "just right" for the track bumps to not be an issue.

Jussi Karjalainen
23-10-2017, 08:00
Jussi, what are your thoughts on overdamping soft springs, Colin Chapman -style? What might be the benefits of such an approach?It's the most common way to make a road legal sports car, especially if you have active suspension, since springing them stiff enough is kinda out of the question. Super stiff suspensions lock down the movements of the car in a way similar to stiffer springs, so in a situation where you're limited by the springs you can use (either for comfort or for example in autocross by your class rules) you tend to see a lot of super duper stiff rebound settings, way up in the supercritical regions. On the flipside you often see the opposite dampers in rallying, running fairly soft springs with massive bump damping and very little rebound.

In circuit racing you tend to go rebound higher to control body roll etc., and it can also help maintain low ride height (in continuous bumps a higher rebound than bump will tend to compress the suspension, creeping the car lower and lower). Though some modern racing tyres need to be worked hard, which can lead to setups with really stiff bump damping to really hammer the tyres. In rallying it's the opposite, you don't want the suspension to compress too far, rather you want to have the car float over the bumps, and the low rebound allows the suspension to quickly extend down to reach the ground if the road dips out from underneath you.

As for my opinion, I'm not personally a huge fan overall dynamics wise, a lot of modern sports cars are actually faster around a track in comfort mode than in sport/track mode, because while the locked off suspension can feel very sporty and reacts quickly, a lot of the time you just end up losing ultimate grip compared to running softer damping. "Comfort mode" does take a different driving style though, since you need to account for the time it takes for the suspension to take a set more. Having soft springs but stiff dampers can still give you too much body motion, it'll just take longer to manifest. For racing I tend to like moderately stiff springs to limit the movement of the car combined with a fairly relaxed damper setup to allow the suspension to move and do its job.

To each their own, as bmanic clearly likes it. =)

And yeah, Colin had some pretty fun things to say on these subjects. Something along the lines of "even a bad suspension can be made to work decently if you prevent it from moving". I think though that he was mostly talking about suspensions where camber gain, bump steer, roll-center migration etc. were issues, rather than a modern pretty well sorted suspension layout... =)

Michal7M
23-10-2017, 11:45
First of all, Jussi, many thanks for your hard work!

Just wanted to double check with you, if this baseline setup makes sense.
243647

Ball325
23-10-2017, 17:21
I started playing with this over the weekend. The frequencies and all are a little over my head, I'm starting to get them. I even looked back at the one from PC1 because the layout made more sense to a novice like me, after some tinkering I was able to develop a tune for my NSX GT3 that yielded an easy 1 second advantage over my previous tune at the red bull ring.

Still trying to figure out the tire pressures and I really hope they open up the gear box tuning as often times there is so little adjustment that I can't tune it the way I'd like to.

Thanks for taking the time to make this.

F1_Racer68
23-10-2017, 17:44
I started playing with this over the weekend. The frequencies and all are a little over my head, I'm starting to get them. I even looked back at the one from PC1 because the layout made more sense to a novice like me, after some tinkering I was able to develop a tune for my NSX GT3 that yielded an easy 1 second advantage over my previous tune at the red bull ring.

Still trying to figure out the tire pressures and I really hope they open up the gear box tuning as often times there is so little adjustment that I can't tune it the way I'd like to.

Thanks for taking the time to make this.

Gear box tuning is restricted in game as per real life regulations. Gearing stacks is one of the many tools used by series' for BoP.

You won't be seeing that change in game.

Ball325
23-10-2017, 18:39
Gear box tuning is restricted in game as per real life regulations. Gearing stacks is one of the many tools used by series' for BoP.

You won't be seeing that change in game.

Yeah, but a lot of these cars have completely different gear boxes for some of these shorter tracks. I know we never had gear issues in the WC cars. Maybe the GT3 rules are different.

deedok
24-10-2017, 02:58
I would pay $5 for an iPad app!

Hujkis
01-11-2017, 14:18
244316
Does this make any sense at all?

PostBox981
02-11-2017, 18:23
Has been mentioned before certainly, seems like I missed it. I belong to the few that canīt change the chosen car, using Excel 2007. Is there any workaround of how to use it with Excel anyway? I wouldnīt like to install a second Office package alongside Microsoft Office for using the suspension calculator only. Thanks for any hints.

Wayne Kerr
03-11-2017, 11:35
@Jussi

pretty sure you answered this for the bars, but the spring rate that we see in the game, those are wheel rates? or no.

MJP
03-11-2017, 20:15
Has been mentioned before certainly, seems like I missed it. I belong to the few that canīt change the chosen car, using Excel 2007. Is there any workaround of how to use it with Excel anyway? I wouldnīt like to install a second Office package alongside Microsoft Office for using the suspension calculator only. Thanks for any hints.
Workaround in post #40 (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54023-Project-CARS-2-Suspension-Calculator-v0-96&p=1382327&viewfull=1#post1382327).


@Jussi

pretty sure you answered this for the bars, but the spring rate that we see in the game, those are wheel rates? or no.

Pretty sure it's spring rates in game.

Bensko
09-11-2017, 09:14
Hello Jussi,
I am trying to understand the spreadsheet, but i have some trouble with this:
"critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range."

When i look at the sheet i see 'total damping force at 3 in./s. But i see a total of 12 percentages in column C and D: Front rebound, Front Bump (2x), Rear Rebound, Rear Bump (2x). This whole set is seen twice: Row 27 - 30 and 32 - 35. I am just wondering what fields i should look at for Critical Damping for rebound and Bump. Or should all of them be in the 79-90% range and 40-70% for rebound and bump respectively?

My initial try for the Caddillac GT3:
I think, hope, that this would be a good suspension. Will try it tonight.

http://i67.tinypic.com/29xw0oy.png

Thanks for all the hard work!

danowat
10-11-2017, 09:40
It's a great tool, just out of interest, is it the tool that is used to develop the setups that ship with the game?

MrMarko1100
10-11-2017, 21:36
anyone have any issues downloading the calculator ? the link in the OP brings to aa google documents page with to different files . neither of which im able to open

Bensko
11-11-2017, 08:42
anyone have any issues downloading the calculator ? the link in the OP brings to aa google documents page with to different files . neither of which im able to open

it's a .rar file. You can download it with the download button (top right). You can unrar it with a program (just google one) and you find 2 files in it.

Terrell Olvera
11-11-2017, 09:36
Lots of GT3 tunes being shown in this thread, I was curious, do you guys use the same methodology for open-wheelers? Most of their default setups have really steep slopes for their slow rebound damping, just wondering if the general starting point of "between the lines" works across the board. Same goes for the opposite end of the spectrum, with street cars.

Sessionerror
11-11-2017, 09:56
@Jussi

I think there's something wrong with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI TME in your calculator. Neither the default values are the same as ingame, nor the selectable values at all :D Might be worth looking into it for the next version. Thanks! :)

Wolkenwolf
11-11-2017, 17:10
Thats great work, thx.

Btw: LibreOffice macros are working fine if you have installed/install a Java Runtime Environment.
Just check under Extras/Options/Advanced. Oracle should be there. If not, download and install the right one for LibreOffice 32/64 bit.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre8-downloads-2133155.html

Ravager619
11-11-2017, 18:14
Thank you for this, Jussi!

I just tried it with the Ford Mustang RTR at Willow Springs Raceway, and I shaved about a half second off my fastest TT lap there. What I really like about this calculator is I'm finally beginning to understand what all of these spring and dampening settings do to change the car's handling. Before, I was basically guessing what the car needed based on what I remember from playing NASCAR Racing way back when.

O-NO
13-11-2017, 15:41
Impressive work.

Can I just ask if you don't mind.....are the presets that are there when you choose a car the ones you've worked on and useable?

Jever
19-11-2017, 13:47
I would like To learn using this, but my Excel says folder Can not be edit?

PostBox981
19-11-2017, 18:11
You have to first activate macros on the top of the page.

If you canīt edit the car choice you either have to open the other file with another office (is it Open Office?) or you have to manually type in the carīs complete name. Somewhere in this thread on one of the last few pages there is a link to a list with all the cars and their correct names to be used with Jussiīs Suspension Calculator.

thydney1970
20-11-2017, 17:09
Hi Jussi

Have you planned an update of the setup calculator v0.96 in the upcoming weeks or will the current version the final one? thanks a lot for your fantastic work and without your tools, PC2 would be a much bigger miracle on creating setups:-)

MKDC
21-11-2017, 10:52
Hi All.

I've tried to fathom this masterpiece of a spread sheet a few times, but I keep staring at it wondering what the data and graphs are trying to tell me.. I know I can adjust figures etc, but what does it all mean.. Its not like if you adjust a, then b is adjusted automatically to suit to keep things nice and balanced..
There's obviously a lot more to it.. I've tried listening/watching the YouTube clips but I'm none the wiser, as these seem to delve into the mechanics of the calculator and not really explaining what the holy grail is.. Obviously the graphs are a big picture, so what are they telling me when I make changes, should the bands all flow nicely, should they spread apart, should red be on blue etc.. If someone could,. in plain terms give a few bullet points, it would be much appreciated, and I'm sure I'm not alone here..

Dub Style CH
23-11-2017, 17:16
Hi All.

I've tried to fathom this masterpiece of a spread sheet a few times, but I keep staring at it wondering what the data and graphs are trying to tell me.. I know I can adjust figures etc, but what does it all mean.. Its not like if you adjust a, then b is adjusted automatically to suit to keep things nice and balanced..
There's obviously a lot more to it.. I've tried listening/watching the YouTube clips but I'm none the wiser, as these seem to delve into the mechanics of the calculator and not really explaining what the holy grail is.. Obviously the graphs are a big picture, so what are they telling me when I make changes, should the bands all flow nicely, should they spread apart, should red be on blue etc.. If someone could,. in plain terms give a few bullet points, it would be much appreciated, and I'm sure I'm not alone here..


it is really simple. just keep the red line in between the 2 blue lines. you can adjust the red line withg the green boxes.

sportyaccordy
24-11-2017, 04:26
I used this to tune some GT3 cars, but I found that compared to SMS's "stable" settings the front slow damping rates are a LOT lower with the calculator. That difference seems to lead to a lot of snap oversteer in the transition off the brakes in trail braking back to the throttle. I need to check my diff and engine braking settings but ramping up the front slow damping seems to fix the issue. Any ideas?

MKDC
24-11-2017, 11:25
it is really simple. just keep the red line in between the 2 blue lines. you can adjust the red line withg the green boxes.

Figured it would be something simple as such.. Cheers

F1_Racer68
27-11-2017, 19:17
@Jussi,

Based on the default values I see in the calculator ofr the Ford GT GTE/GTLM, it looks like the calculator's values are based on the "Stable" setup. The main indicatior of this is the rear Anti Roll Bar, as most other suspension values are the same on that car.

Is this the case for all cars, or does it vary by car?

Racing4Life
29-11-2017, 08:54
Maybe a stupid question, but is the actual version of this great sheet still proper after the patch?

One of my fav cars is the X-Bow GT4 and according to the patch notes the data of springs and dampers have changed.

KTM X-Bow GT4 - Changed spring and damper data
Didnt have time to check how the car handles now though.

Jussi Karjalainen
01-12-2017, 01:47
I would pay $5 for an iPad app!So would I (well, Windows 10 Mobile in my case)!
244316
Does this make any sense at all?Yes, it makes a lot of sense.

Do note however that not all cars play nicely by the rules. The Cayman has quite a bit of camber and toe change associated with wheel travel, so you might want to steer more towards understeer (hard front, soft rear) on that than normal.
Has been mentioned before certainly, seems like I missed it. I belong to the few that canīt change the chosen car, using Excel 2007. Is there any workaround of how to use it with Excel anyway? I wouldnīt like to install a second Office package alongside Microsoft Office for using the suspension calculator only. Thanks for any hints.Unfortunately I only have the latest Excel available with Office 365 and I can't test with older versions, so I can't provide support for those. If 2007 doesn't work for you then the only thing I can suggest is downloading a free alternative.
@Jussi

pretty sure you answered this for the bars, but the spring rate that we see in the game, those are wheel rates? or no.Spring rates are spring rates, not wheel rates. The calculator handles the various motion ratios.
Hello Jussi,
I am trying to understand the spreadsheet, but i have some trouble with this:
"critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range."

When i look at the sheet i see 'total damping force at 3 in./s. But i see a total of 12 percentages in column C and D: Front rebound, Front Bump (2x), Rear Rebound, Rear Bump (2x). This whole set is seen twice: Row 27 - 30 and 32 - 35. I am just wondering what fields i should look at for Critical Damping for rebound and Bump. Or should all of them be in the 79-90% range and 40-70% for rebound and bump respectively?

My initial try for the Caddillac GT3:
I think, hope, that this would be a good suspension. Will try it tonight.

http://i67.tinypic.com/29xw0oy.png

Thanks for all the hard work!Some cars have a suspension layout that causes up and down (heave) and side to side (roll) to behave differently, hence the large amount of percentages. If possible with the available adjustments (some cars have 3rd spring/damper adjustments that adjust only heave/up and down) try to get everything within the guidelines. Of course the guidelines are just that, they're not the final truth. Most of the time you'll just have to live with a compromise, that's how it is in real life too.

That setup looks good, if a bit soft on the rebound overall for my tastes. But then again I like my rebound stiff and my bump soft. =)

It's a great tool, just out of interest, is it the tool that is used to develop the setups that ship with the game?Some of them, though a lot of the setups in-game (especially for the Loose and OEM setups) are more closely based on real data rather than trying to adjust them to be "convenient". Especially vintage cars can have some really weird suspension decision, a lot of the stuff we now take for granted was only established in the late 90s/early 00s.


Lots of GT3 tunes being shown in this thread, I was curious, do you guys use the same methodology for open-wheelers? Most of their default setups have really steep slopes for their slow rebound damping, just wondering if the general starting point of "between the lines" works across the board. Same goes for the opposite end of the spectrum, with street cars.As before this will depend a lot on what data was available and what sort of setups were prominent at the time. For example lots of road going sports cars tend to have supremely stiff rebound and fairly soft bump damping.

In theory the guidelines work for most everything where mechanical grip is concerned, but of course not all cars care one iota about mechanical grip. LMP and modern open-wheelers often care more about providing a stable aero platform than allowing the suspension to actually work, so using super stiff dampers and springs is quite normal.

As always, the calculator is a starting point and a tool for getting an idea of what you're doing and how big of an effect the settings have, rather than the be all end all of tuning. The best thing about the tool is that it puts the very ephemeral numbers you see in dampers and springs into some sort of context, so you can have an idea of how big of a change you're making and into what direction.
@Jussi

I think there's something wrong with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI TME in your calculator. Neither the default values are the same as ingame, nor the selectable values at all :D Might be worth looking into it for the next version. Thanks! :)Thanks, the new version (coming up soon, I promise!) will have everything synced up to what the game has. Sorry for any bugs, and thank you for bringing up any issues!
Impressive work.

Can I just ask if you don't mind.....are the presets that are there when you choose a car the ones you've worked on and useable?Yes, I went through all the setups for all cars. Some things slipped through the cracks and for example some cars don't behave that well with low fuel amounts and some setups being perhaps a bit too extreme towards the "loose" side etc. but I'm working hard to fix everything as issues come up and are reported. Just a part of trying to design setups for a game with nigh infinite adjustability and conditions.
I used this to tune some GT3 cars, but I found that compared to SMS's "stable" settings the front slow damping rates are a LOT lower with the calculator. That difference seems to lead to a lot of snap oversteer in the transition off the brakes in trail braking back to the throttle. I need to check my diff and engine braking settings but ramping up the front slow damping seems to fix the issue. Any ideas?That's partly a reflection of modern GT3 design ideas, that seems to favor really stiff bump damping at the front. Softening them up to the guidelines in the calculator can increase grip at the front in dynamic situations like trailbraking quite significantly, so will require an adaptation to your driving style. The guidelines are mostly for good, progressive mechanical grip on smooth circuits.

I personally like my suspension this way, I prefer the smooth grip behavior on the limit the dampers give when using setups like these, but the increase in grip compared to the default setups is perhaps not for everyone.


Hi Jussi

Have you planned an update of the setup calculator v0.96 in the upcoming weeks or will the current version the final one? thanks a lot for your fantastic work and without your tools, PC2 would be a much bigger miracle on creating setups:-)Update is coming, especially now that the new patch is in. Very busy right now though so please hold on for a moment, I hope to have it available to you guys in a week!
@Jussi,

Based on the default values I see in the calculator ofr the Ford GT GTE/GTLM, it looks like the calculator's values are based on the "Stable" setup. The main indicatior of this is the rear Anti Roll Bar, as most other suspension values are the same on that car.

Is this the case for all cars, or does it vary by car?All default values should be based on the Stable setups, yes.
Maybe a stupid question, but is the actual version of this great sheet still proper after the patch?

One of my fav cars is the X-Bow GT4 and according to the patch notes the data of springs and dampers have changed.

Didnt have time to check how the car handles now though.Some cars have changed while others have not. I'm working on putting up an update for you guys, but these are very busy times!

Jussi Karjalainen
01-12-2017, 01:51
Oh, and I will be updating the spreadsheet at least with every major patch and DLC.

poirqc
01-12-2017, 02:10
Now that setups saves correctly, i'll probably have a go at it again! :D

Thanks for the good work!

TheMarshal
01-12-2017, 13:34
Hi Jussi,

Great to hear that you will continue to update the calculator. I have not posted here that often, but I have studied the calculator and use it very frequently. I have a few questions and suggestions summed up below. I hope you can help me answer them.

1) The anti-roll bars, what would you recommend setting these to? Do you have a similar parameter to aim for, just like to the frequency of the suspension? ( For example in a GT3 car)
2) The anti-roll bars do not seem to alter the roll damping/behaviour of the car in the spreadsheet. Do I misunderstand the function of the ARB's, because I would expect that an increased front or rear ARB would change roll damping characteristics.
3) The sheet is locked, so I cant add the legend to the graphs unfortunately. Can you please explain what the orange line in the graph means?

Thanks in advance. I am a big fan of your calculator!

Jussi Karjalainen
01-12-2017, 19:14
Hi Jussi,

Great to hear that you will continue to update the calculator. I have not posted here that often, but I have studied the calculator and use it very frequently. I have a few questions and suggestions summed up below. I hope you can help me answer them.

1) The anti-roll bars, what would you recommend setting these to? Do you have a similar parameter to aim for, just like to the frequency of the suspension? ( For example in a GT3 car)
2) The anti-roll bars do not seem to alter the roll damping/behaviour of the car in the spreadsheet. Do I misunderstand the function of the ARB's, because I would expect that an increased front or rear ARB would change roll damping characteristics.
3) The sheet is locked, so I cant add the legend to the graphs unfortunately. Can you please explain what the orange line in the graph means?

Thanks in advance. I am a big fan of your calculator!1) Not really, these are very much car and player dependent. I personally dislike very stiff ARBs since I like my left and right side to be able to act independently, but many people use extremely stiff settings to post great times. If it works it works. I tend to just use them to tweak the oversteer and understeer balance of the car while preventing excessive body roll.

2) You're not misunderstanding it, I'm just leaving the ARBs out of the calculations for the dampers for simplicity, keeping those calculations purely spring and damper related. If I can find an easy way to include them without "ruining" things I'll do it.

3) Oh yeah, forgot to label those (ran out of room): The orange line is an "extra stiff/supercritical" guideline, that has something like 110% critical damping for the initial ramp. This is a guideline for setups that want to hammer the tyres hard on bumps, which seems to be in fashion in some series (it can depend on the tyres used whether you want to be hard or soft on them).

Wayne Kerr
01-12-2017, 20:51
Spring rates are spring rates, not wheel rates. The calculator handles the various motion ratios.

Might want to double check the JSP3 numbers in the spreadsheet vs p. 23 of the user manual from Ligier then. The spring rates in game lines up with the real rates listed, but the wheel stiffness listed vs the calc has a discrepancy.

Same deal with the AMG GT3 front in the calc. Right now MR in the calc is at 1. It isn't 1, we physically measured it six times between two cars before we even went for a shakedown (it's damn close, but when you consider you need to square whatever it is to get the wheel rate, blah blah blah..i don't need to explain further I don't think? :D )

If the game spring rates are just springs, then there are the amg gt3 rear springs numbers. Not sure where 80-180 N/mm came from in the game.

Obviously end of the day none of these things really matter for a game, GIGO as they say. But if you trust your physics model enough, I think there could be the possibility of seeing a benefit (in terms of enjoyment of the game) from more accurate simulated data.

Bultaco85
03-12-2017, 14:21
EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.96 released, fixing rear 3rd spring functionality (copy error while converting from my internal sheet)
EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.95 released, fixing heave motion ratio issues on various cars

Here ye, here ye, the preliminary version of the suspension calculator for Project CARS 2 is upon us. I haven't had time to prepare anything for this release other than the calculator itself and some very basic instructions. In the near future I intend to make some videos explaining it a bit more, but those of you familiar with my work on the Project CARS suspension calculator of yore can get a start on it now, as well as those clever enough to figure it out by themselves. =)

The download link be here:

Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.96 for Excel and OpenOffice (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2zk33mHubBfMkJuaTBvMVNENk0)

The archive has the calculator in two formats, .ods and .xlms. The ODS version works great in OpenOffice for me, but not in LibreOffice (macros don't work), and the Excel version works in Excel, as you'd expect.

The calculator has changed appearance somewhat, but the functionality is more or less as before: Use the GREEN cells to adjust values, read the metrics from the top (suspension frequencies) and bottom (critical damping ratios), check the graphs for a general look of the situation.

Step 1 is to select a car. Do this by selecting the cell with the name of the car and opening up the dropdown list (it's a bit behind the Reset button on OpenOffice since the layering in it is stupid).

Step 2 you hit the Reset button (as long as your macros are enabled), this will reset all the values to "default" settings (should be the same as Stable, but can be a bit out of date).

Step 3 adjust springs. See the frequencies to the right of the springs? That's how stiff the car is, no matter what the numbers on the springs are (this has to do with motion ratios and weight distribution). Two cars that have different weight but the same frequency are equally stiff. It's common for racing cars to have at least 10-30% stiffer front end for sharp front end response and good rear traction. Softer increases mechanical grip, harder makes things sharper and more stable aero wise. Non-aero race cars tend to be in the two, three Hz range, med aero cars (like GT3) tend to be in the 2.5-4.0 Hz range, for high aero cars sky is the limit (you want a solid aero platform on them and don't care about mechanical grip as much). Note that in Project CARS 2 some cars have third springs that act only for up and down motion (the opposite to swaybars that only act for roll), so you can differentiate between the two. For example you can make the car softer for cornering by using soft springs in the corners, but still able to support the aero load by adding 3rd springs to stiffen up that side.

Step 4 adjust dampers. I'll add more to this, but for dead simplicity try to stay between the blue lines in the graph, towards the stiffer side. Below center is bump, above center is rebound. The further away from center you go the stiffer you are. For the "critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range. I usually go with about 80% critical for rebound and 50% critical for bump.

Rules of thumb:

Stiffer = less grip, and vice versa, for springs, swaybars and dampers alike. There are exceptions but as long as you're within the guidelines this is generally true. A notable caveat is aero, you want to make sure that works as well as possible.

For stability, make the front stiffer than the rear in all categories, but don't exaggerate.

Try to avoid compensating one area with another. If your springs are much stiffer at the rear and you compensate by stiffening the dampers and swaybars at the front, you'll usually create a car that can react unpredictably in different situations. Some cars like road cars though do this by design in many cases, for other reasons. Rarely any need for that in racing.

Don't go below average of 50% critical on the damping, the car will take a long time to settle down from bumps.

Going beyond 100% critical on the damping means you're making the suspension slower at getting back to a neutral position. You might want this for a very stable aero platform on an open-wheeler, but it's generally not a great idea for mechanical grip.

For circuit racing it's common to have the rebound damping significantly stiffer than the bump damping. Exceptions exist though, like some GT3 cars that want to work the tyres hard with stiff bump damping. For rally and uneven surfaces you usually want to go with stiff bump and soft rebound. Experiment with different bump/rebound biases to find your own style!

Front wheel drive cars are just wacky and have insane setups, don't try to apply rear wheel drive logic to those!

People have done and continue to do weird stuff in real life, so don't be surprised if a default setup looks odd in the calculator. I talk in generalities and approximations, sometimes a seemingly weird solution can work great.

The Lotus 38 has a very asymmetric construction, not just asymmetric settings. That's why I split it into two halves.




Hi all,



For some reason iīm able to use the differential calculator, but not the suspension one, the macros donīt seem to work.
Could someone please tell me what may be happening?


Thanks in advance.

PostBox981
03-12-2017, 16:01
Hi all,



For some reason iīm able to use the differential calculator, but not the suspension one, the macros donīt seem to work.
Could someone please tell me what may be happening?


Thanks in advance.

It doesnīt work very well with some Excel versions. You probably have to go for some free office package to be able to use it. Or fill in the exact car name in the corresponding field, that works as well. There is a list with all the cars names somewhere here in this thread. Works well for me.

JHONLEROLERO
04-12-2017, 02:16
I would like to know more details about that part of the calculator. I didnt understand well... The car is a Nissan GT3 and has the front part heavier than rear. Why the ''comp. At 1G at wheel'' shows the otherwise ?
Sorry about any English mistakes
246776

Jussi Karjalainen
04-12-2017, 06:02
I would like to know more details about that part of the calculator. I didnt understand well... The car is a Nissan GT3 and has the front part heavier than rear. Why the ''comp. At 1G at wheel'' shows the otherwise ?
Sorry about any English mistakes
246776Because the front suspension is stiffer, and stiffer springs compress less under the same load.

The other numbers are roll frequency in Hz with sway bars included, will be more properly implemented in the next version.

Bultaco85
04-12-2017, 12:03
It doesnīt work very well with some Excel versions. You probably have to go for some free office package to be able to use it. Or fill in the exact car name in the corresponding field, that works as well. There is a list with all the cars names somewhere here in this thread. Works well for me.

Thank you!

rcnavigated76
08-12-2017, 22:35
So will this calculator still be accurate after patch on ps4?

ScoobyDave
12-12-2017, 14:38
Hi guys,
Firstly thanks to Jussi for providing a spreadsheet breaking down suspension tweaks for us.
I would definitely not know where to start otherwise!

I have been working on the Ferrari 488 gt3 as a first test of how the changes affect the handling of the car.
I just wanted to check I'm using the spreadsheet in the right way:
1. I've been aiming for the critical parameters of 50% bump and 80% rebound(might have that the wrong way round) by adjusting both spring rates and damper numbers.
This led to a really stiffly sprung car that is drivable and competitive but hard to live with over longer distances.
Also, I found it hard to keep tyre temps around the recommended 1.8bar on the gt3 machines.
Should I rather be doing it this way:
1. Leave springs at default
2. Adjust dampers to meet critical requirements.
3. Come back to springs to improve car balance.
4. If step 3 knocks damper settings away from critical recommendations,adjust damper settings to account for new spring settings, ensuring hitting critical damper numbers in process.

Does that make sense, and if so is that a logical incremental approach to getting improvements in balance and therefore lap time?

If I'm on the right track I can then spend some time following that approach.
Thanks!
D

F1_Racer68
12-12-2017, 17:00
Hi guys,
Firstly thanks to Jussi for providing a spreadsheet breaking down suspension tweaks for us.
I would definitely not know where to start otherwise!

I have been working on the Ferrari 488 gt3 as a first test of how the changes affect the handling of the car.
I just wanted to check I'm using the spreadsheet in the right way:
1. I've been aiming for the critical parameters of 50% bump and 80% rebound(might have that the wrong way round) by adjusting both spring rates and damper numbers.
This led to a really stiffly sprung car that is drivable and competitive but hard to live with over longer distances.
Also, I found it hard to keep tyre temps around the recommended 1.8bar on the gt3 machines.
Should I rather be doing it this way:
1. Leave springs at default
2. Adjust dampers to meet critical requirements.
3. Come back to springs to improve car balance.
4. If step 3 knocks damper settings away from critical recommendations,adjust damper settings to account for new spring settings, ensuring hitting critical damper numbers in process.

Does that make sense, and if so is that a logical incremental approach to getting improvements in balance and therefore lap time?

If I'm on the right track I can then spend some time following that approach.
Thanks!
D

I generally start with my spring rates first, then set dampers as appropriate.

Basic rules:

Springs as soft as possible without bottoming out.
Springs stiff enough to support downforce pressure.
Soft springs = mechanical grip.


Once I have the springs approximately where I want/need them, then I adjust the dampers to match. Damper values are completely dependant on the spring settings, so it makes sense to start with them. Then start fine tuning springs and dampers to get to the balance you are looking for and to address any handling issues.

ScoobyDave
12-12-2017, 17:17
Thanks F1 racer,
That gives me a good template to work off and step back to when the tweaks I make take me further away, rather than closer to, where I need the car to be.

ScoobyDave
12-12-2017, 20:09
Blinkngone has apparently been churning out some quality tunes.
Not at many tracks I am familiar with, but using his setups and now a better understanding of Jussi spreadsheet b I'm pretty sure I can find more speed.
Thanks for the education guys!

ScoobyDave
12-12-2017, 22:02
Blinkngone has apparently been churning out some quality tunes.
Not at many tracks I am familiar with, but using his setups and now a better understanding of Jussi spreadsheet b I'm pretty sure I can find more speed.
Thanks for the education guys!

Zincau
16-12-2017, 11:00
First all this is a hard and great work, i was also using these excels on PC1 version. But i noticed;

the first two images at the below shows KTM X-BOW GT4 Default stable setup and the third image is from your excel file (yes i picked KTM and hit reset button)

There are huge differences between those. Did i miss something or ?? Because its impossible to get 120 NM Front Spring rate by changing values.

Another question What do you mean by weight distribution in PCars2? Is that "brake balance" or "preload" or what?

thanks & regards

247482
247484
247483

MaximusN
19-12-2017, 23:21
Another question What do you mean by weight distribution in PCars2? Is that "brake balance" or "preload" or what?

http://www.powerpyx.com/wp-content/uploads/project-cars-2-review-2.jpg

It's on the first tab, if the car has an adjustable weight balance(see screenshot, it's in the middle under the downforce settings).

Zincau
20-12-2017, 00:42
http://www.powerpyx.com/wp-content/uploads/project-cars-2-review-2.jpg

It's on the first tab, if the car has an adjustable weight balance(see screenshot, it's in the middle under the downforce settings).

thank you

Ysteb
20-12-2017, 08:41
Hi,

Thanks Jussi for the hard work. I'm using your calc sheets since PCars 1 and with the abhorrent default setups we had back then, your work really was a godsend.

Now, I am wondering how to determine what is the best travel range for a given car on a given track. Do we just set it by comparing it to the car height ? Or is there some public knowledge that says we should allow some amount of travel for a given serie on a given track ?

Thanks for your help people.

CRace44
22-12-2017, 03:39
Thank you for this, Jussi!

I just tried it with the Ford Mustang RTR at Willow Springs Raceway, and I shaved about a half second off my fastest TT lap there. What I really like about this calculator is I'm finally beginning to understand what all of these spring and dampening settings do to change the car's handling. Before, I was basically guessing what the car needed based on what I remember from playing NASCAR Racing way back when.
Exactly what I was thinking. I used to do alright setting-up my cars in NR2k3 but this is a whole new ballgame. Thanks for all the hard work!

RobPhoboS
27-12-2017, 19:44
I'm still struggling to get to grips with this spreadsheet, I can see a huge amount of work has gone into it which is massively appreciated!
If anyone wants to do a yt vid of them setting up a car from scratch that would be sweet!

WGIstation6a
06-01-2018, 18:29
I may be a being a bit of a n00b here but I can only get to download the .rar file. I see the button to DL the .xlsm version, but when I click it nothing happens. I've tried several ways to DL it to no avail. Perhaps I'm too computer illiterate to figure this one out. I'm also thinking that if I can't figure out how to DL it, then will it be of any use to me anyway?

2010 Synergy Camaro
06-01-2018, 20:18
You will need to extract the .rar file. I use 7-zip and there is a free download if you don't have it already. The spreadsheet will take some time to master it. I suggest watching Jussi's videos first or you may become overwhelmed. Once you get comfortable the spreadsheet is a great tool and will save you lots of tuning time.

Rapid FACR
07-01-2018, 21:17
I've studied suspension etc periodically from scratch when I first started racing in project cars about 18 months ago, so I feel like I'm in my first year of a very long course. Jussi, I think you're probably the same person that I've used setups from with PC1, and I thank you massively for that. At the risk of sounding pathetic though, would you mind creating a Set Up for Dummies guide to go with your calculator. I've had a look at it, and from my fledgling perspective I found it a bit mind boggling. Thanks again for sharing your hard work, it really is very much appreciated.

Hre220
09-01-2018, 04:10
I can not open these files to save my life , I'm on chrome and I have tried explorer and nothing

hkraft300
09-01-2018, 05:57
I can not open these files to save my life , I'm on chrome and I have tried explorer and nothing

Extract with winrar
Open with Google sheets

F1_Racer68
09-01-2018, 16:16
Extract with winrar
Open with Google sheets

Or Excel, or LibreOffice, or OpenOffice.

Need WinRar or 7zip, or some other RAR format extraction software first though.

Pisan777
10-01-2018, 11:31
Hi trying to download this for I phone 7 has anyone been able to do so? I have excel app on phone thanks

Hre220
12-01-2018, 01:47
thanks guys I can know download it but still can not open saying corrupted and chance a a version for google sheets ?

poirqc
13-01-2018, 12:03
thanks guys I can know download it but still can not open saying corrupted and chance a a version for google sheets ?

If you install open office(free) you should be able to use it.

Hre220
14-01-2018, 03:25
Tried that .. still won't open

poirqc
20-01-2018, 01:27
Tried that .. still won't open

You need to enable macros. Maybe you disabled them altogether?

McWursTy
24-01-2018, 12:44
Hi Jussi,

first of all: thank you so much for this calculator. It helps a lot!

I want to report an issue with the Group A Mercedes 190E concerning the rear springs. Ingame the maximum setting is 150 (step 10). In the calculator though you can go up to 220 (step 17).
I don't know if the ingame maximum changed after a patch but this needs to be included in future versions.

David Slute
24-01-2018, 22:34
I need a idiots guide on how to install this lol
Got the file, got open office and google sheets, got winwar to extract the file......how and where do I extract it to get it to show in open office?

Sessionerror
25-01-2018, 07:44
Well...you extract the open office file to wherever you want, double click it and tadaaa, it opens :D

F1_Racer68
26-01-2018, 00:48
It's just a freaking spreadsheet people..... How has this become so complicated?

Download, uncompress, open in spreadsheet application.

.ods = OpenOffice or LibreOffice
.xls = MS Excel

It's NOT rocket science.....

AbeWoz
26-01-2018, 17:14
It's NOT rocket surgery.....


FTFY lol

David Slute
28-01-2018, 02:28
You are correct it's NOT rocket science.....just pc software knowledge which not all of us are strong at. I havent used or opened a spreadsheet program since grade 9 comp class in the mid 90's lol
Anyways I got it sorted. Thnx!

David Slute
29-01-2018, 00:26
Wanted to thank Jussi for this great calculator. I spent 3-4 hrs last night watching his 3 videos and reading through some of the threads getting acustomed to the calculator. Made an attempt at a tune and felt the handling was much better.
I have a few questions regarding the app that iam sure have been answered but I lost in the overflow of data that I just want clarify lol

1. In the drop down bars where it has numbers usually 1-10....do they represent % 1=10% etc. ?

2. In the videos which used older versions of the spread sheets I only noticed 2 red lines representing the springs....in the current version I have 3, 2 below center...is one of the lines represent the 3rd spring for cars that use them ?

3. Does ride height effect the calculations? And does the old theory of go as low as you can with out bottoming out still stand true?

4. At the bottom of the dampeners there is 2 boxes....cant remember what there called but I believe its for fine tuning the overall rebound and bump? Is there any basic guide lines for these settings?

Sorry for all the noob questions. I use to love tuning cars 10 yrs ago in forza which was very basic and could manipulate the handling with some pretty ridiculous settings, but got lost when I switched over to pc sims as there far more in depth and realistic.
Anyways I look forward to an up to date video with the current spreadsheet and tuning so more cars!

Cheers

hkraft300
29-01-2018, 01:37
1. The drop menu (green) corresponds to the in-game selection (yellow). Eg if there are 4 selections for weight distribution, for example, Jussi has numbered them 0-1-2-3 in the green menu and one of them is default.

2. No. Sort of: I put the nose as low as reasonable but the rear height has Aero, rake and balance to consider.

kludgey
05-02-2018, 10:12
*snip*
4. At the bottom of the dampeners there is 2 boxes....cant remember what there called but I believe its for fine tuning the overall rebound and bump? Is there any basic guide lines for these settings?

*snip*

I believe your talking about the transition boxes. So the Bump Transition and the Rebound Transition. Basically this is the point at which the slow bump/rebound settings stop being used and the fast bump/rebound kicks in, effectively the amount of force that must move through the suspension before the transition to Fast. What you can do with this in that tool is to change the angle of the second half of the lines. So theoretically you want to try and keep the red between the two blues. The transitions will affect the angle of the latter half of the line. Sometimes this can be quite useful, but as with most of this, the easiest way to see it is to try it at the extremes.

eracerhead
09-02-2018, 23:32
Currently running PCars v4, version 0.96 of the calculator. Preset values for the Porsche 991 GT3 R in the calc do not match the available setup values:

Lowest spring presets are 190f/220r, while in-game values are 90f/140r
Lowest ARB presets are 60f/20r, 30/30 in-game
All the damper settings are quite a ways off

I haven't used the calculator for this car before, so I don't know if it has always been off or simply needs to be updated for patch 4...

hkraft300
09-02-2018, 23:47
That is due for an update. Patch 4 notes said the 911 got some suspension tweaks.

F1_Racer68
10-02-2018, 01:29
That is due for an update. Patch 4 notes said the 911 got some suspension tweaks.

I believe we are also still missing the Fun Pack cars.....

Pretty sure Jussi has been busy though, so I will excuse it....... for now...... ;)

chieflongshin
15-02-2018, 11:30
Hi Jussi

I saw something about set up videos explaining the spreadsheet. Do you have a link please?

Also someone mentioned blinkngones tunes. Where can i pick these up?

Thank you

Racing4Life
15-02-2018, 13:13
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

PostBox981
15-02-2018, 14:04
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32940-A-new-home-for-all-your-setups&p=1033985&viewfull=1#post1033985

Would be good to add this link to post #1, if possible. :)

CastrolGT
18-02-2018, 19:45
the KTM GT4 on the calculator doesn't have the same values as the one in game. it is possible to fix that?

MKDC
19-02-2018, 09:46
The Porsche 911 GT3 R on the calculator is showing different values to the default in the game..
Eg'.
Front Spring Rate on the calculator has default value at 240, with the lowest value at 200, yet the game has a default of 120 and a max at 150
Rear Spring Rate on the calculator has default value at 230, with the lowest value at 230, yet the game has a default of 140 and a max at 180

Its the same variance with ARB etc etc

I've changes vehicles a few times and reset to check but still the same

AbeWoz
19-02-2018, 11:50
suspension geometry was updated in patch 4 so I would wager that Jussi hasn't updated the calculator (or released the update) yet.

CastrolGT
19-02-2018, 19:45
well, the KTM already had different values before patch 4, so…

hkraft300
20-02-2018, 03:51
well, the KTM already had different values before patch 4, so…

Jussi's put out this calculator free of charge of his own time and effort.

CastrolGT
20-02-2018, 08:22
I know that. but since nobody said that the KTM didn't had the same values before the patch 4, I thought that I would go to it and report the mistake to be known. I'm not saying that he has to correct the mistake in the second… I'm not that dumb. I know that he has a life outside the simulators. he can work on it when he feels to. I'm just reporting the error as I like using cars that few people uses. btw, the Aston Martin Vantage GT3 with this calculator is magic as the car tends to understeer easily. now, it turns really good. still a bit of understeer with an edge of oversteering but it is competitive, now :D

Renoldo1990
20-02-2018, 09:45
Hey @Jussi Karjalainen

Is it possible to update the calculator with the new values for the Porsche GT3? (The car was changed with the latest Patch)

hkraft300
20-02-2018, 11:29
btw, the Aston Martin Vantage GT3 with this calculator is magic as the car tends to understeer easily. now, it turns really good. still a bit of understeer with an edge of oversteering but it is competitive, now :D

You wot?
Please, do share!

CastrolGT
20-02-2018, 12:38
You wot?
Please, do share!

2 examples:
1) Monza
250453
250454
250455
250456
250457
250459
250458

2) Nurburgring GP
250460
250461
250462
250463
250464
250465
250466

let say that in online races, I'm easily in the top 10 or top 5. sometimes top 3. and even more rare, 1st lol. I'm not really fast tho. I can manage some realistic times but I'm certainly not an alien. except a bit on Le Mans with the TS040 but that's another topic

the funny thing is that I'm 99% of the time the only guy who has an Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3 in a lobby. and 100% of the time where I'm not alone, I'm at the front of the pack if there's no mistakes on my side or some idiots who does have 0 on spacial awareness

hkraft300
20-02-2018, 14:38
Interesting.
48 at Monza public MP will get you wins if you're consistent.
Your pressures are very low. Interesting.

CastrolGT
20-02-2018, 14:46
I aim to get around the pressures shown here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps when I drive this car, some laps later, I hit those pressures and the tyres are between 80°C and 95°C. if I put more pressure, the hot pressure gets a bit too high and the tyres a bit too cold(sometimes it stays at 60-70°C)

meawk
21-02-2018, 14:55
when will an update come? Porsche GT3 R for example

F1_Racer68
21-02-2018, 16:00
You guys do all realize that Jussi is an SMS employee right? That means he has a day job. This tool is simply something he has done out of kindness for us. It's also EXTREMELY low on his list of priorities, since it is not what pays his bills or feeds hsi family.

Hopefully, he will find some time to update it, but if not, c'est la vie. Consider yourselves lucky to even have it in the first place instead of nagging like a bunch of bitter old ladies.

meawk
21-02-2018, 17:09
sry - was only a question and no nagging old women

F1_Racer68
21-02-2018, 18:15
sry - was only a question and no nagging old women

Was not directed at you specifically - Sorry, I know it probably seemed that way. There have been several posts in the past week, and it gets infuriating when people take someone else's kindness and generosity for granted. It was just a general rant from me.

Jussi Karjalainen
21-02-2018, 19:58
Hi guys, sorry for the long gap in communications. The long and short of it is that I got sick in December and it lasted almost two months, during which time I mostly just slept and worked when I could, ignoring everything else for the most part, and forgot to turn myself back on afterwards. It really is less about me being busy and just being forgetful this time around. I'm really sorry for forgetting about the forums for so long, I'm trying to catch up now. Hopefully late is still better than never.

First things first: A new update is indeed coming! As you've noticed lots of cars have been tweaked and of course there's the new DLC pack that's missing completely, but because I use this thing for work as well I have been keeping it up to date locally. Right now though I'm not 100% sure when I should/can release the next version. The problem is that it's not trivial converting my local spreadsheet into the public one, especially since there might be behind the scenes stuff in there. It's no secret that we haven't stopped working on DLC for the game yet, so I'm now stuck between wanting to make a new version for you guys ASAP, and waiting for the next DLC to drop and only releasing then so that I don't have to do it twice... I'll figure out something.


1. In the drop down bars where it has numbers usually 1-10....do they represent % 1=10% etc. ?

2. In the videos which used older versions of the spread sheets I only noticed 2 red lines representing the springs....in the current version I have 3, 2 below center...is one of the lines represent the 3rd spring for cars that use them ?

3. Does ride height effect the calculations? And does the old theory of go as low as you can with out bottoming out still stand true?

4. At the bottom of the dampeners there is 2 boxes....cant remember what there called but I believe its for fine tuning the overall rebound and bump? Is there any basic guide lines for these settings?

1. Those represent steps. The way the physics are defined includes having a base value to which we add any number of steps on top of. For me, since I now have access to the physics unlike the last time, it makes more sense to implement things this way than writing down each value separately like I did in the old calculator. Especially since with Python we've managed to automate much of the process of getting values from the game to the spreadsheet. It's not quite as convenient as before, but it's infinitely easier for me personally, try to cope. =)

2. I think you're referring to the front damper graphs? The only line that's actually RED should be the damper settings themselves, the orange one is a sometimes useful marker for supercritical (iirc like 120% critical?) damping that is sometimes used in racing cars if they want to beat the carp out of the front tyres (some tyres require working them hard to get best performance out of them).

3. Ride height has no effect on spring nor damper stiffness, so as far as the calculator goes the answer is "no" . However the two are obviously linked, if you want to ride low without hitting the ground, you might have to stiffen up your springs so that the car has more support.

And yes, as low as you can get away with is still good, particularly on high downforce cars, and even more particularly on cars with big underbody DF (Group C, LMP, etc.). Depending on the car and the current setup, you can sometimes get like 10% higher aero efficiency by slamming it down to the ground, meaning you can either enjoy more DF at the same drag level, or get less drag for the same DF as before.

However just "as low as possible" isn't the only end goal, you also want to take rake angle into account. Even if your car has 15 mm higher rear ride height when standing still, depending on your springs and DF settings you might have the rear end dragging lower then the front at high speeds, when the aero is compressing the springs. This can both make your aero efficiency significantly worse as well as demolish your front aero capabilities. For optimal aero performance you'd always want to have at least a couple of millimeters higher rear ride height when holding steady at high speeds (Mojave Cougar Ridge is probably the best place to test since it's so smooth), though it might also make the car less stable sometimes. In these situations you're going to have to think whether you can just increase the rear ride height to compensate (too high at the rear will be bad news at low speeds) or maybe you'll have to make your rear springs stiffer so that they compress less (3rd springs are pretty much designed specifically for combating these aero loads). More rake angle (= the higher the rear is compared to the front) the higher the underbody aero efficiency usually is, and it also tends to move the aero pressure center forwards, good for curing understeer.

There are limits however, some cars can stall the underbody aero if you go too low (effectively there's not enough room for a good airflow, which stops the underbody from working) and too much rake can also stall the underbody aero if you try to work it too aggressively. A few millimeters when holding a steady speed is a good safe setting, especially considering that cars dive when braking, which effectively increases rake suddenly. You don't want the aerodynamics to stop working suddenly when you hit brakes. =)

4. Those are the transition force settings, essentially deciding when does slow damping switch to fast damping. Casey has a great post of them in here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55139-Post-6-Can-someone-explain-dampers&p=1393261&viewfull=1#post1393261


Would be good to add this link to post #1, if possible. :)I hadn't already? Dangit! Fixing now.

Jussi Karjalainen
21-02-2018, 20:02
You guys do all realize that Jussi is an SMS employee right? That means he has a day job. This tool is simply something he has done out of kindness for us. It's also EXTREMELY low on his list of priorities, since it is not what pays his bills or feeds hsi family.

Hopefully, he will find some time to update it, but if not, c'est la vie. Consider yourselves lucky to even have it in the first place instead of nagging like a bunch of bitter old ladies.Well considering I use it FOR work (well, my local version of it anyway) it kinda does pay my bills, and is incredibly important to keep up to date locally... =)

Releasing the public version is a bit different though, it's a surprising amount of work to convert it. However in this case I really can't hide behind the "too busy" excuse, since it was mostly me being forgetful. I'm really sorry guys, I should have updated the calculator much sooner. Right now though we're kind of in between DLCs (I don't think it's any kind of secret we have more DLC in the pipeline) as well, so I'm figuring out whether I should just push a release now and then another when the DLC hits, or wait for the next DLC. Don't actually know when that's coming out though.

F1_Racer68
21-02-2018, 21:07
Well considering I use it FOR work (well, my local version of it anyway) it kinda does pay my bills, and is incredibly important to keep up to date locally... =)

Releasing the public version is a bit different though, it's a surprising amount of work to convert it. However in this case I really can't hide behind the "too busy" excuse, since it was mostly me being forgetful. I'm really sorry guys, I should have updated the calculator much sooner. Right now though we're kind of in between DLCs (I don't think it's any kind of secret we have more DLC in the pipeline) as well, so I'm figuring out whether I should just push a release now and then another when the DLC hits, or wait for the next DLC. Don't actually know when that's coming out though.

Glad to hear you are feeling better! Wow, sick for 2 months? Hope it wasn't anything too serious.

We know the Porsche DLC is coming in the next few weeks (some time in March), so I personally would suggest waiting until that releases before you drop an update for us. No point doing more work than needed.

klw7890
05-03-2018, 12:38
Hey Jussi! This calculator is awesome! I use it for all my tunes. I do have a quick question though:

I know the roll and heave frequencies are shown not including the effects of anti roll bars, but wouldn't anti roll bars directly affect the roll frequency?

I know the roll rates with ARB are given in cells S5 and S6, but wouldn't it be adventurous for AWB to be included in the calculations for front and rear roll damping?

Again, thank you so much for this. As an engineer, I can appreciate the math and physics behind this wonderful spreadsheet! Cheers!

Maverick944
05-03-2018, 14:57
Hi Jussi,
Used calculator for Pcars. Was epic. Downloaded PCars2 Suspension Calculator it asks for password to use when changing car.
Help.

Jussi Karjalainen
05-03-2018, 17:52
Hey Jussi! This calculator is awesome! I use it for all my tunes. I do have a quick question though:

I know the roll and heave frequencies are shown not including the effects of anti roll bars, but wouldn't anti roll bars directly affect the roll frequency?

I know the roll rates with ARB are given in cells S5 and S6, but wouldn't it be adventurous for AWB to be included in the calculations for front and rear roll damping?

Again, thank you so much for this. As an engineer, I can appreciate the math and physics behind this wonderful spreadsheet! Cheers!Yes and no. I will be including them as a separate measurement (as in separate boxes for "roll frequency with ARBs included"), but it's not quite as simple as that. Sure, adding the spring rate of the sway bars is easy enough, but that doesn't tell you the whole story. Just like with the normal springs needing the motion ratio of the suspension to be factored in if you are to make any real use of them, to make swaybar tuning work properly on the spreadsheet I'd have to figure out the front and rear roll center heights for each car to make it properly usable.

I have thought about adding them for a long time, but with the level of technology in the spreadsheet right now I'm not sure I could do it any justice, so I'm going to stick to having any swaybar metrics be kind of a side-note in all of it, and focus on the main springs and dampers.

Might change in the future, but they're not going to be a significant focus soon.

Hi Jussi,
Used calculator for Pcars. Was epic. Downloaded PCars2 Suspension Calculator it asks for password to use when changing car.
Help.That's super odd, I can't imagine why it'd ask you for a password. What program are you using?

TexasTyme214
07-03-2018, 11:03
Will we see an updated Suspension Calculator with the Porsche DLC soon?

Jussi Karjalainen
07-03-2018, 12:22
Soon, hopefully today or tomorrow.

bytecruncher26
07-03-2018, 19:48
Great to hear and btw verry nice Work @ Jussi :applause:

Jussi Karjalainen
07-03-2018, 22:32
Confirmed to be pushed for late tomorrow. There is one area I want to make sure I get absolutely right so I roped Casey in on it to help me work it out.

klw7890
07-03-2018, 22:47
Yes and no. I will be including them as a separate measurement (as in separate boxes for "roll frequency with ARBs included"), but it's not quite as simple as that. Sure, adding the spring rate of the sway bars is easy enough, but that doesn't tell you the whole story. Just like with the normal springs needing the motion ratio of the suspension to be factored in if you are to make any real use of them, to make swaybar tuning work properly on the spreadsheet I'd have to figure out the front and rear roll center heights for each car to make it properly usable.

I have thought about adding them for a long time, but with the level of technology in the spreadsheet right now I'm not sure I could do it any justice, so I'm going to stick to having any swaybar metrics be kind of a side-note in all of it, and focus on the main springs and dampers.

Ah, that makes sense now! How on earth do you figure out the motion ratios and weight distributions to do the math? I was actually going to make a suspension calculator until I found yours, but I didn't know how to go about getting that data for the car.

Jussi Karjalainen
07-03-2018, 22:52
Ah, that makes sense now! How on earth do you figure out the motion ratios and weight distributions to do the math? I was actually going to make a suspension calculator until I found yours, but I didn't know how to go about getting that data for the car.Simple: When I made the first one, I asked the devs. Now, I am the dev. =)

You can't really make those out via the game itself, unfortunately.

klw7890
08-03-2018, 00:28
Simple: When I made the first one, I asked the devs. Now, I am the dev. =)

You can't really make those out via the game itself, unfortunately.

Haha, fair enough! Guess I wouldn't have gotten very far!

Sessionerror
08-03-2018, 07:27
Confirmed to be pushed for late tomorrow. There is one area I want to make sure I get absolutely right so I roped Casey in on it to help me work it out.

Oh, this is great news! I'm really looking forward to the update, since I have some special projects in mind like tuning the Renault R5 Maxi Turbo into a cup car...and I desperately need the calculator for that :D Seeing the update coming feels like christmas already :D I can only thank you again and again for that wonderful tool!

Jussi Karjalainen
08-03-2018, 22:20
Version 0.99 released, added missing DLC cars, improved calculations on cars with varying motion ratios, added an optional "roll frequency with swaybars included", but it's not super accurate so don't treat it as gospel.

See first post.

I tried a slightly new way of making the .ods version, hopefully it works for everyone on Libre/OpenOffice.

EDIT: And the reason it's not super accurate is that I can't yet factor in the CoG<->roll center height leverage.

H1LLIER
08-03-2018, 22:42
Thanks for the update. I think there's a problem with your RAR file. Google drive can't see the contents and I can't unpack it

Edit : Apologies, I'm an idiot. Needed to update my winrar

g.stew
08-03-2018, 22:58
Thanks for the update. I think there's a problem with your RAR file. Google drive can't see the contents and I can't unpack it

It worked for me. It said there was a problem with the preview on the google drive page, but I could still download. I was able to unrar it with no problems and open the .xlsm file.

H1LLIER
08-03-2018, 23:09
It worked for me. It said there was a problem with the preview on the google drive page, but I could still download. I was able to unrar it with no problems and open the .xlsm file.

My bad. My winrar needed updating. It's working now

2010 Synergy Camaro
08-03-2018, 23:34
I tried a slightly new way of making the .ods version, hopefully it works for everyone on Libre/OpenOffice.


It works very well with LibreOffice. Thank You so much again Jussi.

F1_Racer68
09-03-2018, 00:06
Thanks for the update Jussi!!

:applause::applause:

klw7890
09-03-2018, 06:58
Great update!

Racing4Life
09-03-2018, 08:24
Thanks for the update, Jussi.

But I have a maybe stupid question. Calculating a rear driven car with a front engine works really fine to get a base. But a car with a rear engine, e.g. the KTM GT4, gives me the creeps. My current baseline shouldnt be driveable at all, but for me its working.

Springs: 120/120
ARB: 5/12
SlBp: 6.400/10.500
SlRb: 11.250/12.950
FsRb: 6.200/5.600
BpTr: 385/840
RbTr: 500/385
Which leads to critical damping Rebound 71%/63% and Bump 42%/79%.

To be honest, I've created this setup before Patch 3.0, made a retest after this patch and it was still working. So I kept it, though basicly this car should drive like a bag of potatoes. The rebound-diagrams dont even look that bad, but the diagram of the bump ... frightening.

With your new version of the calculator I've tried to adjust my baseline, but I dont have the slightest chance, whatever spring setting I chose, to get the critical rear bump below the critical front bump.

So my question basicly is, do I need to "switch" the critical targets for a car with a rear engine? Meaning, instead of adjusting the front percentage quotation to a slightly higher level the rear percentage quotation has to be a lill higher?

On the other hand, this question isnt that stupid. With the new Porsche-DLC we have a new bunch of rear engine based cars, which need a baseline setup. :)

bytecruncher26
09-03-2018, 08:35
Oh great thanks for the new Version @Jussi :triumphant:

Anukpaquito
09-03-2018, 09:51
Hi to all!! Thank you jussi for your work. The calculator is incredible!! But I was working on it few weeks ago and can't find a configuration for megane touring car. So, I need your help please. My english is so bad and I don't understand too much the tutorials. With some cars i get it but with megane not. Please, can you help me? thenkyou very much!!!

Hujkis
09-03-2018, 12:16
Interestingly, this rar was first archive I came across that Gnome's archive manager couldn't handle. Had to install unrar :)
Thanks Jussi!!!

Jussi Karjalainen
09-03-2018, 12:29
Thanks for the update, Jussi.

But I have a maybe stupid question. Calculating a rear driven car with a front engine works really fine to get a base. But a car with a rear engine, e.g. the KTM GT4, gives me the creeps. My current baseline shouldnt be driveable at all, but for me its working.

Springs: 120/120
ARB: 5/12
SlBp: 6.400/10.500
SlRb: 11.250/12.950
FsRb: 6.200/5.600
BpTr: 385/840
RbTr: 500/385
Which leads to critical damping Rebound 71%/63% and Bump 42%/79%.

To be honest, I've created this setup before Patch 3.0, made a retest after this patch and it was still working. So I kept it, though basicly this car should drive like a bag of potatoes. The rebound-diagrams dont even look that bad, but the diagram of the bump ... frightening.

With your new version of the calculator I've tried to adjust my baseline, but I dont have the slightest chance, whatever spring setting I chose, to get the critical rear bump below the critical front bump.

So my question basicly is, do I need to "switch" the critical targets for a car with a rear engine? Meaning, instead of adjusting the front percentage quotation to a slightly higher level the rear percentage quotation has to be a lill higher?

On the other hand, this question isnt that stupid. With the new Porsche-DLC we have a new bunch of rear engine based cars, which need a baseline setup. :)It's an exaggeration to say "shouldn't be drivable at all". The spring balance is pretty equal front to rear, front dampers are on the soft side but still just about enough to control the springs, and rear dampers are heavy on bump but nothing really major. A setup like this would tend to favor front end grip and produce a car that turns in a strong manner, if the rest of the car can keep up with it, it's not a problem. And the KTM GT4 is pretty much known for having more grip than anything else, so you can easily get away with all sorts of things on it, would be a bit harder with a real power monster. The damper ranges, as you can see, are quite unorthodox for this car, but I think KTM knew what they were doing. The huge grip levels, the relatively low power, their specific suspension layout, it all came together in a car that had more than enough rear grip, so they could run some unorthodox stuff to make sure it's as pointy as possibly.

Rear engine doesn't change the fundamentals of suspension tuning, I think specific suspensions (how the dynamic camber etc. all play out) would have a bigger effect on what you'd want to do with the springs. The weight distribution of the KTM GT4 is 50:50 front rear anyway, so it's not like it's a rear heavy car. =)

KTM GT4 isn't the only car with somewhat unorthodox setups. Porsche 917/10 for example runs a hugely stiffer rear end to deal with the driving dynamics caused by the really rearward weight distribution (which can cause lacking front end grip), downforce center of pressure, and general clunkiness that comes from the spool rear diff. The recommendations I have laid out are just that, general recommendations, not the be all end all of tuning. =)

Hi to all!! Thank you jussi for your work. The calculator is incredible!! But I was working on it few weeks ago and can't find a configuration for megane touring car. So, I need your help please. My english is so bad and I don't understand too much the tutorials. With some cars i get it but with megane not. Please, can you help me? thenkyou very much!!!Configuration for it in what sense?

Anukpaquito
09-03-2018, 14:15
Configuration for it in what sense?

You said at your first post: "Front wheel drive cars are just wacky and have insane setups, don't try to apply rear wheel drive logic to those!"

So, I'd like to see a setup for front wheel drive car like megane TC. Perhaps I'd tried to apply the rear wheel drive logic. thanks for your patience Jussi.

leaky
09-03-2018, 18:30
Hey guys, I'm trying to understand Jussis tool and have used it on various cars but to no avail. Can someone have a look at this and explain what I'm doing wrong

251519

Would really appreciate some feedback.

PostBox981
09-03-2018, 19:19
I belong to the few that are unable to choose another car from a dropdown list. As a workaround I have to insert the exact car name in line 2. Is there anybody who could provide the added car names of the Porsche pack please? Or are the names exactly as to be seen in the car selection screen? Thanks.

EDIT: Thanks Jussi for improving the spread sheet. Great work, very helpful, keep it going! :yes:

Jussi Karjalainen
09-03-2018, 20:16
I belong to the few that are unable to choose another car from a dropdown list. As a workaround I have to insert the exact car name in line 2. Is there anybody who could proide the added car names of the Porsche pack please? Or are the names exactly as to be seen in the car selection screen? Thanks.

EDIT: Thanks Jussi for improving the spread sheet. Great work, very helpful, keep it going! :yes:Could you give me a bit more information about your situation, which version of the sheet are you using, and what spreadsheet program (specific version too please)?

Here's a list of the car names used in the calculator, they're not exactly the same as in-game:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4794/38904182550_62ab4957cb_o.png

PostBox981
09-03-2018, 20:22
Could you give me a bit more information about your situation, which version of the sheet are you using, and what spreadsheet program (specific version too please)?

Here's a list of the car names used in the calculator, they're not exactly the same as in-game:


Hi Jussi,

thanks for the quick response and providing that list, Iīm gonna save it to my help files collection. With that I am fine again, no need to tinker around with the calculator. To answer your question: I am on Excel 2007. Since using version 0.96 there is no dropdown for me in line 2 so I have to insert the car name and tick refresh as a workaround. Works great, no problem with that. Thanks again.

Cheers
Frank

EDIT: Downloaded 0.99 today but still the same.

poirqc
09-03-2018, 20:37
Hi Jussi,

thanks for the quick response and providing that list, Iīm gonna save it to my help files collection. With that I am fine again, no need to tinker around with the calculator. To answer your question: I am on Excel 2007. Since using version 0.96 there is no dropdown for me in line 2 so I have to insert the car name and tick refresh as a workaround. Works great, no problem with that. Thanks again.

Cheers
Frank

EDIT: Downloaded 0.99 today but still the same.

I confirm it does the same here. There's also no dropdown menus. Regardless of macro being on or off.

From memories, didn't the last version had multiple tabs in the sheet?

Thanks,

2010 Synergy Camaro
09-03-2018, 21:42
Hey guys, I'm trying to understand Jussis tool and have used it on various cars but to no avail. Can someone have a look at this and explain what I'm doing wrong

Would really appreciate some feedback.


You are not doing anything wrong. Remember this is a baseline balance you are calculating. I like to keep the rear percentages slightly softer than the front on my baseline balances. Try these numbers out for a baseline and work from there if you are not happy. Front in order 6-4-6-0-4-9 Rear in order 1-5-0-0-0-6. Remember, this is just a base.

Jussi Karjalainen
09-03-2018, 21:53
Hi Jussi,

thanks for the quick response and providing that list, Iīm gonna save it to my help files collection. With that I am fine again, no need to tinker around with the calculator. To answer your question: I am on Excel 2007. Since using version 0.96 there is no dropdown for me in line 2 so I have to insert the car name and tick refresh as a workaround. Works great, no problem with that. Thanks again.

Cheers
Frank

EDIT: Downloaded 0.99 today but still the same.


I confirm it does the same here. There's also no dropdown menus. Regardless of macro being on or off.

From memories, didn't the last version had multiple tabs in the sheet?

Thanks,

Ah yes, I had heard that Excel 2007 doesn't like the dropdown menus for whatever reason... I don't have that version myself, so I can't really do anything about it to test, it should be a normal data validation setting, so I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.

What you guys CAN do, is download LibreOffice/OpenOffice, and run the .ods version of the sheet. The programs are free and open source and not massive downloads, functionality is identical, and you shouldn't get any compatibility issues.

The .xslm version will not work properly in Libre/OpenOffice, the macros don't carry over and the dropdown list might not work either, but the .ods version should have no issues.

g.stew
09-03-2018, 22:18
Hey guys, I'm trying to understand Jussis tool and have used it on various cars but to no avail. Can someone have a look at this and explain what I'm doing wrong


I've just started trying to understand this area of tuning very recently so someone will probably correct me (which is great, because that's how you learn). I tried to find the simplest way to look at this without getting confused by all the numbers, and found a few posts mentioning this.

I simply try to get the red lines inside the two blue lines, and closer to the outside blue line.

After using it a few times, I'm starting to see how the changes affect the lines so I'm understanding how to get the red line to look how I want it without just guessing and experimenting.

Once I'm comfortable with how my changes to the damper settings affect the red line, I'm going to start parsing what those visual changes mean to the numbers and frequencies. By then, I'm hoping to have a better idea of what kind of feeling I prefer and what it looks like visually and in the numbers.

Anyway, from your picture, it looks like your red lines are outside the blue lines, so maybe start with that.

Please feel free to correct me if there is a better way of thinking about this. If anyone has a good workflow they use, I'd love to hear it.

2010 Synergy Camaro
09-03-2018, 22:43
If anyone has a good workflow they use, I'd love to hear it.

I’m fairly new at this myself and yes the object is to get between the blue lines and closer to stiff, (darker blue) line. However, there are some cars in the game where you can not accomplish this so you have to get as close as possible. My targets are 50-60% Front bump, 75-90% Front rebound, 45-55% Rear bump, 75-90% Rear rebound and the fast settings parallel as possible to the red lines. If you end up with 50% critical bump and 80% critical rebound you are in pretty good shape as a base setup I believe. I noticed on Jussi’s Project Cars 1 calculator there were fast setting suggestions that made balancing a lot quicker but this new version is a bit more challenging for me and more fun as well.

Jussi Karjalainen
09-03-2018, 22:45
That's a pretty good way to go about it, really. I personally aim to get my rear bump dampers closer to the inner blue line, because I like pliable rear bump damping, but the outer line isn't bad by any means. And straying outside the lines for an overall stiffer setup can also work very well, especially on high DF cars.

Other than that the front to rear suspension frequency is a biggie in most cases, tune the front/rear frequency bias and then the dampers to match and you're most of the way there for a solid baseline.

Jussi Karjalainen
09-03-2018, 22:47
I noticed on Jussi’s Project Cars 1 calculator there were fast setting suggestions that made balancing a lot quicker but this new version is a bit more challenging for me and more fun as well.Those numbers were actually just a numerical representation of the blue lines, they used pretty much the exact same figures. I had to leave them out of this one because with the 3rd springs and whatnot I just ran out of space for the bloody things (I wanted the calculator to fit the screen when viewed in 1080p). :D

klw7890
09-03-2018, 23:02
I'm curious about a couple things:

When I set a car with no anti-roll bars at all, why would the roll frequency bias with roll bars be different than the roll frequency without them?

The lines that represent soft, stiff, and super stiff: what are they based on? Are they just arbitrary damping ratios with a knee set at a certain point, like 3 in/s?

251540

Jussi Karjalainen
10-03-2018, 02:11
Roll-bias is based on the spring rates and the new one is based on frequencies.

If the roll-bias is towards the front, it means that when measured at the wheel front springs + front swaybar have a higher combined spring rate than rear springs + rear sway bar. In that case the figure is really showing (front spring + front swaybar)/(front spring + front swaybar + rear spring + rear swaybar), i.e. how much of the total spring rate resisting roll is coming from the front of the car. Of course the formula checks first whether whether (front spring + front swaybar) or (rear spring + rear swaybar) is higher.

The bias in the new roll freq. inc. swaybars is purely a frequency bias. The formula adds the swaybar's rate to the spring rate, calculates the frequency based on that (as I've mentioned before this isn't terribly accurate unless you also factor in roll center vs. CoG leverage), and the bias is then simply (front frequency)/(front frequency + rear frequency). So you could have a higher front bias in there even if the combined spring rates were lower, if you had a car with a really light nose.*

So the difference is pure spring rates when measured at the wheel for the old roll bias vs. frequencies which also take into account the weight of the car for the newer addition.

As for the damper curves, they're based on various bits of literature I've come across over the years, as well as experimenting with the game. A good example would be the fine site "Autocross To Win" (written by a pretty knowledgeable shock engineer, racecar builder and autocross driver), and there specifically the Shock Forces page (http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets19.html), which among other things has a nice snippet from Racecar Engineering included:

251554

These rough guidelines have been both supported by other materials over the years, as well as having been mentioned as being mere rough guidelines by others, where more specific cases have been examined. For the purposes of the spreadsheet I didn't go too complicated on them, but added those various figures for people who want to tune by numbers too.

The lines basically go like this: The stiff (outer) rebound lines have a 90% critical slow region up until 3 in/s and then kick down to a 35% critical fast region. The soft (inner) rebound lines have a 60% critical slow region up until 3 in/s and then kick down to a 25% critical fast region. The fast lines are based on the rebound lines: The stiff bump lines are 70% of the stiff rebound, i.e. 70% of 90% = 63% critical for the slow region, then 35% critical fast region. The soft bump lines are 50% of the stiff rebound, i.e. 50% of 90% = 45% for the slow region, and 25% critical for the fast region. Then there's the "super stiff" line for front bump, which is 120% of the stiff rebound, i.e. 120% of 90% = 108% for the slow region, then 35% critical for the fast region.

*EDIT: Here's a good example, the new 911 RSR '73. This car has a really light nose so the front frequency will be higher than the rear even with quite soft springs. You can see that the old Roll-bias is showing 53% rear, because the rear springs are stiffer when measured at the wheel, but because the nose is very light even the softer spring will result in a higher front frequency, so the new bias setting shows 55% front.

251555

hkraft300
10-03-2018, 03:34
Hey guys, I'm trying to understand Jussis tool and have used it on various cars but to no avail. Can someone have a look at this and explain what I'm doing wrong

251519

Would really appreciate some feedback.

What do you feel is going wrong with using this setup?
Personally I would soften the front springs. >4Hz frequency doesn't feel very good to me in GT cars.

ExiledinIN
10-03-2018, 04:02
Any Mac users out there that can suggest a rar file extractor? I'm having issues opening the .99 with my Dr. Unarchiver.

wanganrider
10-03-2018, 05:19
Hi guys i cannot get the tool to open and display at all it says i dont have a programm to open it with. I am new to all of this can anyone help?

hkraft300
10-03-2018, 09:56
Hi guys i cannot get the tool to open and display at all it says i dont have a programm to open it with. I am new to all of this can anyone help?

Extract with winrar.
Open with Google sheets.

davidt33
10-03-2018, 10:30
Any Mac users out there that can suggest a rar file extractor? I'm having issues opening the .99 with my Dr. Unarchiver.
Mac user here. Try Keka. It's great and Free.....And you get the added benefit of current updates. I used to use others before but since discovering Keka about 1-2 years ago it's all I use now for all file/s archiving and extraction. I'd suggest setting it as your default archiver/extractor. It's that good.


Keka is a free file archiver for macOS
the main compression core is p7zip (http://p7zip.sourceforge.net/) (7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) port)
Compression formats supported:
7z, Zip, Tar, Gzip, Bzip2, DMG, ISO
Extraction formats supported:
RAR, 7z, Lzma, xz, Zip, Tar, Gzip, Bzip2, ISO, EXE, CAB, PAX

http://www.kekaosx.com/en/

poirqc
10-03-2018, 11:53
Ah yes, I had heard that Excel 2007 doesn't like the dropdown menus for whatever reason... I don't have that version myself, so I can't really do anything about it to test, it should be a normal data validation setting, so I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.

What you guys CAN do, is download LibreOffice/OpenOffice, and run the .ods version of the sheet. The programs are free and open source and not massive downloads, functionality is identical, and you shouldn't get any compatibility issues.

The .xslm version will not work properly in Libre/OpenOffice, the macros don't carry over and the dropdown list might not work either, but the .ods version should have no issues.

Yeah, I use OpenOffice at home. I was just at work and confirmed that it wasn't only an issue on his side. :)

davidt33
10-03-2018, 12:32
I've been staring at this suspension calculator tool for the longest while. I actually downloaded the previous version 0.9 some time ago, read through the notes and looked at the videos which are quite long but for the life of me can't figure out how to work it proper yet so never used it. It seems quite complex to me....could be because I'm mathematically challenged.
The thing is too in trying to follow the video tutorials for clearer understanding, the linked videos are old (the last one is about 2 years old isn't it?) and differ somewhat from the actual recent downloaded Excel spreadsheets which is causing some confusion for me in co-relating one with the other. I've now downloaded the most recent version 0.99 and the same confusion remains in co-relating the spreadsheet with the old video tutorial which I just again looked at in entirety. My head hurts.

Could you please do a new video tutorial that corresponds with the new version 0.99? Maybe it might reduce some confusion in relating the video to what I'm seeing in the spreadsheet. This calculator looks good and have received many positive feedback from what I've seen so I'd really like to be able to use it but need to better understand how to work it.

leaky
10-03-2018, 13:39
I'm essentially in the same boat as you davidt33. From what I understand, the important numbers that you want to manipulate are the 3 in/s percentage ratios (critical dampening). Obviously this is done by altering the various bump and rebound settings in the green cells to achieve your desired goal. The four diagrams illustrate front/rear roll (up/down suspension motion) and front/rear heave (sideways suspension motion). Roll frequency relates to the stiffness of the suspension i.e. the higher the number, the stiffer the suspension.
The goal of this tool is to set up the dampers so that the Bump reaches approx 50% critical dampening and rebound reaches approx 80% critical dampening, as per Jussis suggestions. When you achieve this the diagram will show that you have the red line within the blue lines (if that makes sense).

leaky
10-03-2018, 13:55
@HKraft300 When I compare my altered setup with the various default setups, the defaults feel way better, especially over the curbs. This is where I know I'm doing something drastically wrong.
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions guys, I'm gonna mess around with it again and make it work xd.

2010 Synergy Camaro
10-03-2018, 16:13
When I compare my altered setup with the various default setups, the defaults feel way better, especially over the curbs. This is where I know I'm doing something drastically wrong.
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions guys, I'm gonna mess around with it again and make it work xd.

From what I have read the slow settings are driver issues (acceleration & deceleration) and the fast settings are car issues (bumps & curbs). I hope this helps you sort it out. Let us know what you did to resolve the Huracan GT3 please.

hkraft300
10-03-2018, 23:35
@HKraft300 When I compare my altered setup with the various default setups, the defaults feel way better, especially over the curbs.

If you run stiffer springs from default, it won't handle bumps very well naturally.
What you can do is plug in default values, check the Hz and the damping %. Then adjust the spring balance to your liking and use similar damping %.

If you go stiffer springs, you can go slightly softer bump % to absorb the road better. Then adjust the rebound to achieve the same damping average %.

Jussi Karjalainen
11-03-2018, 00:42
The goal of this tool is to set up the dampers so that the Bump reaches approx 50% critical dampening and rebound reaches approx 80% critical dampening, as per Jussis suggestions. When you achieve this the diagram will show that you have the red line within the blue lines (if that makes sense).Well, that, and also to give you a framework and some kind of sense of the SCALE you're working with.

How big of a change is 1000 N/m/s for the slow bump? Will it throw you from 40% critical to 45% critical, or 70% critical? How big of change is it to stiffen the front springs by one tick? Is it an almost negligible 0.1 Hz, or is it a very significant 0.5 Hz? And how does this all change from one car to the next?

Those are things that are really hard, or even almost impossible to know without doing the math. So the calculator does the math. The baseline guide portion really is just the start, not the end of the calculator. You shouldn't constrain yourself to always trying to hit the baseline guide values, those are there to get you going and then you can use the calculator to tweak the suspension further with a clear idea of how big the changes you're making are, and where they're happening.

bmanic
11-03-2018, 08:24
This needs to be said again: Thank you Jussi for all the amazing work on this! It's an absolutely invaluable and fascinating tool. Very educational too. If there ever is a pCars 3 or another realistic driving game, this tool would be awesome to have built-in.

Cheers!