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napocapo69
02-10-2017, 21:48
I do not want to beat a dead horse, but really, SMS fix this AI.
I know, I know, AI in PC2 is better than PC1 in many repsects, but in terms of balance and consistency is not.

Some people complain about the agressitivity during race. It's an issue, yes, but still in my opinion it is the minor one.

In the latest patches SMS fixed the major bug during qualifying (oppenents making record times when skipping to the end od the qualifying session). A workaraond more than a fix, because now the lap times made by opponents when skipping to the end of session are artifically high; SMS knows it (indeed the patch was explicitely mentioned as a temporary fix in this reagard). Anyway a temporary fix which, overall, does the job in most cases.

Still consistency is not there, even on the same track; opponents can be significantly faster than me during qualifying (what seems a curve to me is a straight to the AI) and significantly slower during the race.

But consistency is not even my major concern, to tell the truth.

Balance is. The difficulty level is absolutely absurd.

When someone rises this point someone else immediately points out that "I'm fine at 80% of difficulty". Unfortunately non everyone is good enough to drive at 80%; actually there is not a siginicant difference in the challenge when lowering the bar from 80% to 70% then to 60%, to 50% etcetera.

As a exmple, below, 4 screeshots displaying the qualifying times of the AI at Monza with a LAFERRARI, repsectively, with AI set at 80%, 60%, 50% and 40%. PLEASE NOTE THAT THE BELOW LAPTIMES ARE THE RESULT OF A COMPLETE SESSION (without skipping to the end) and recorded after the lastest patches.

AI at 80%
241700

As you can see the AI opponents are quite good performers, given that the first 3 best laptimes are below 1:49 and the world record that is just slighly above 1:48. So good luck to the SIM racers who play at 80%. Too hard for me, so I'll revert back to default settings with IA at 60% (quite a significant downgrade, 20%).

AI at 60%
241697

At 60% the laptimes are more "human" (a bit more than 1 second slower than at 80%) but still very, very competitive. 9 out of 10 score below 1:51. In other words, at the default level, the average player is expected to be just 2 seconds above the world record to start the race in a decent position. Good to know. Still to hard for me. I assumed I was average; I have to face the truth, saddly I'm not. But I'm pragmatic so I lower the bar to 50%.

AI at 50%
241698
At 50% the laptimes are roughly 0,5 seconds higher than at 60%. Noticeably, the best three are just 2-2,5 seconds slower than the world record, and would easily qualify in the ranking at 60% of challenge. Overall, on my best day I can qualify here and have a chance during the race. But I'm not always on my best day. Let go towards the bottom, let's try at 40%.

AI at 40%
241699
At 40% the gap becomes, finally, more noticeable. But laptimes are still good overall, don't you find?

Dear SMS, today I spent a few hours driving a F50 at Monza at almost I had an orgasm. I just would like to repeat the experiece in the career mode, if you get what I mean.

Now tell me that the AI challenge is balanced, believe me, I have a quite developed sense of humor

apey75
02-10-2017, 23:07
Thanks for the comparison. I also found things way too difficult at 80%. Interestingly, through trial and error I also ended up at the magic figure of 40% AI difficulty. At this level I am able to keep up and on a good day even overtake a car or two. I am a *very* average driver though.

My experience is also mostly using the F50 - that car is such a joy to drive / listen to, especially near the rev limiter when it changes tone and gets all raspy! :)

valfar
02-10-2017, 23:19
I'm running 90 in the Porsche Cayman cup in career mode, and I feel I must do a perfect lap (to my abilities) to get first pole. Keeping them behind me in the race is pretty simple.

Now I'm preeeetty sure I'm not world record fast, so the AI varies a lot in difficulty, needing constant adjustment for similar challenge.
In the Ginnetta jr cup I could outrun the AI on 100+ in the wets.

peterCars
03-10-2017, 00:23
That explains why I need to have AI at 40 or below. It also seems to be the case that the lead car is way ahead of the rest, consistently. IMO they could halve the difficulty on the slider and that would be closer to PCars1 levels.
might also be good to have an AI linearity slider for these levels. and maybe sliders for AI for corners, straights, damagability.

bporion
03-10-2017, 00:41
it would also be nice if the A1 would not bunch up in the first corner like a bunch of 90 year olds whit their blinkers on ! I like to start last and make my way thru the field , well they were the same way in Pcars so ....

gcx
03-10-2017, 00:55
To me, 100-110 should be around the top of the leaderboard (to leave some space for the top aliens). A reasonably good driver, so not an alien should be ok between 80-100. I consider myself to be around there (based on other games like). In a 488 GT3 at Silverstone, I'm competitive at 100. With the Ginetta Junior, I have to lower difficulty to 60-70 in career mode.

Remember that there's a message about AIs not using car setups below 80, so they'll end up going too slow or too fast on certain parts of the tracks. So below 80 makes no sense for a serious racer.

I also have the impression that they are incorrectly affected by track temperature. When the track is cold, I go slower (yay), but in my tests, they went faster. Maybe it's just random or there's a bug in there that makes it hard to reproduce. And I'm not talking about rain, because it's not even worth testing right now.

In any case, it's broken as it is.

tpw
03-10-2017, 01:26
Thanks for the screenshots napcapo69. They definitely show the non linearity of difficulty affecting lap times. They also show that in qualy at least, there is not a huge spread in the times. By contrast, in actual quick races without qualifying sessions there's most often an enormous gap between the first 1 or 2 front runners and the rest of the field. Setting a low enough difficulty level that allows you to compete with the front runners means the main pack is completely uncompetitive. Setting difficulty to allow competitive racing with the main pack has the front runner winning by tens of seconds after a 5 lap race. This is the balance issue I'd dearly like to see sorted out.

JDFSSS
03-10-2017, 01:27
I also have the impression that they are incorrectly affected by track temperature. When the track is cold, I go slower (yay), but in my tests, they went faster. Maybe it's just random or there's a bug in there that makes it hard to reproduce. And I'm not talking about rain, because it's not even worth testing right now.

In any case, it's broken as it is.

I noticed the AI not being affected by temps as well when I was testing the Ginnetta GT5 career mode AI in cold temps vs quick race AI in warm temps. AI Times were pretty much the same, even though I was able to go about 2 seconds per lap faster on a warm track with warm tires. There was much speculation that the tires weren't heating properly on the cold track, so it could be that or the AI being too fast on a cold track or a bit of both. The post I made about it is here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52510-Ginetta-tire-temps&p=1369020#post1369020

tpw
03-10-2017, 01:36
I noticed the AI not being affected by temps as well when I was testing the Ginnetta GT5 career mode AI in cold temps vs quick race AI in warm temps. AI Times were pretty much the same, even though I was able to go about 2 seconds per lap faster on a warm track with warm tires. There was much speculation that the tires weren't heating properly on the cold track, so it could be that or the AI being too fast on a cold track or a bit of both. The post I made about it is here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52510-Ginetta-tire-temps&p=1369020#post1369020

The AI run on a different tyre model than the player, I would hazard a guess that their tyres are differently affected by track temps than ours.

gcx
03-10-2017, 01:47
The AI run on a different tyre model than the player, I would hazard a guess that their tyres are differently affected by track temps than ours.

In any case, they need to balance it, otherwise it's no use setting different track temps if they're not following the same (make believe) rules.

ZulfoDK
03-10-2017, 04:08
They also show that in qualy at least, there is not a huge spread in the times. .


It may just be me, but to me 3 seconds on a lap on Monza is a big gap - from 1.48 to 1.51 is a big difference in my world...

tpw
03-10-2017, 04:13
It may just be me, but to me 3 seconds on a lap on Monza is a big gap - from 1.48 to 1.51 is a big difference in my world...

You're right of course. I was just trying to highlight that when actually racing each other, the spread in AI times becomes even more pronounced.

tpw
03-10-2017, 04:14
In any case, they need to balance it, otherwise it's no use setting different track temps if they're not following the same (make believe) rules.

That was the unwritten second line to my statement :)

Ravager619
03-10-2017, 05:18
I have to agree with the OP on this one. I finally won my first GT3 race today. It was a custom event I set up for Donington Park National. 19 opponents. AI set at 55%. I was driving the Nissan GT-R NISMO GT3, and even at 55% I had to run near perfect laps to not only qualify on pole but keep my car up front all race. If I tried it at 60%, I was never going to run down the top three. Keep in mind, I'm running consistent laps even faster than the ones I ran in Time Trial mode.

napocapo69
03-10-2017, 07:05
I noticed the AI not being affected by temps as well when I was testing the Ginnetta GT5 career mode AI in cold temps vs quick race AI in warm temps. AI Times were pretty much the same, even though I was able to go about 2 seconds per lap faster on a warm track with warm tires. There was much speculation that the tires weren't heating properly on the cold track, so it could be that or the AI being too fast on a cold track or a bit of both. The post I made about it is here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52510-Ginetta-tire-temps&p=1369020#post1369020

There is for sure a tyre warm up problem, at least on some track. At Monza I can get reasonable temperatures in 1 lap; at Long Beach after 3 laps the temps increase by less than 15 į (celsius) after 3 laps. Long Beach is shorter and the surface is different, but something is wrong. I start the qualifying with temps at 28, and after 3 laps they are still under 50į. During race I start with the temps at working temp of 78 and then I can overtake several positions in few laps.

napocapo69
03-10-2017, 07:10
It may just be me, but to me 3 seconds on a lap on Monza is a big gap - from 1.48 to 1.51 is a big difference in my world...

1:48 is the worl record. You should have this laptime at 120% not at 80%.
3 seconds by decreasing by 40% the difficulty level does not seem a lot to me, considering also that within the same difficulty level you have a spread of 1 second.

TKMSte66
03-10-2017, 07:52
I noticed the AI not being affected by temps as well when I was testing the Ginnetta GT5 career mode AI in cold temps vs quick race AI in warm temps. AI Times were pretty much the same, even though I was able to go about 2 seconds per lap faster on a warm track with warm tires. There was much speculation that the tires weren't heating properly on the cold track, so it could be that or the AI being too fast on a cold track or a bit of both. The post I made about it is here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52510-Ginetta-tire-temps&p=1369020#post1369020

Its not just temps.

I have noticed a significant difference in Ai times from when its raining and soaking to not raining but still soaking (its only 1 lap later after it stops raining). An improvement of 2.5 seconds a lap and the ai braking as if its dry. This was Knockhill in Ginetta juniors in career mode 100% ai. The AI also doesnt use full throttle in the very wet (while raining) it appears.

I also found them braking as if it was dry in damp conditions (not raining) at oulton park in a custom race also.

Has anyone else come across this?

Leper Messiah
03-10-2017, 09:17
I'm not disagreeing but just take a second to factor in the permutations on achieving "balance", testing every car, on every track, ,in every season, at every time, on every tyre in every weather condition.....and I hope you see my point. To say it's a mammoth task to balance the Ai is a colossal understatement!!

Also factor in one player with equal skill from another may actually be crappy at one track than the other, so even though they're both in a similar skill range the one struggles on a track at 60% ai and the other does not. <- I hope that makes some sense!!

"true" balance is impossible,too many factors....SMS will continue to try and get it as good as possible.

PeteUplink
03-10-2017, 09:46
it would also be nice if the A1 would not bunch up in the first corner like a bunch of 90 year olds whit their blinkers on ! I like to start last and make my way thru the field , well they were the same way in Pcars so ....

I agree with this. The AI into turn 1 always slow down far too much and then crawl around the corner. Some times I can even just drive around the outside of them they're so slow. But usually they slow down so suddenly that the catch me out and I just clatter into the back of one.

Roger Prynne
03-10-2017, 09:59
It may just be me, but to me 3 seconds on a lap on Monza is a big gap - from 1.48 to 1.51 is a big difference in my world...

So this doesn't happen in real life?

plaid
03-10-2017, 10:25
I'm not disagreeing but just take a second to factor in the permutations on achieving "balance", testing every car, on every track, ,in every season, at every time, on every tyre in every weather condition.....and I hope you see my point. To say it's a mammoth task to balance the Ai is a colossal understatement!!


If thats case you bite more than you can chew. Balancing is a important part to make a career and the overall singleplayer worthwile. Being ambitious is nice and good, but you should be realistic about what you can actually archive so you can actually finish what you started. Otherwise you simply failed.*



Also factor in one player with equal skill from another may actually be crappy at one track than the other, so even though they're both in a similar skill range the one struggles on a track at 60% ai and the other does not. <- I hope that makes some sense!!
.

No it doesn't make sense to mention that some people are very inconsistent. It rather sounds like a lame excuse in that case.

*Same about multiclass/endurance. Its only a feature on written on the box, cause the AI also sadly fails in being efficent in these scenarios. Also its halfassed with no shared pit feature and rather small grids, considering that gigantic amount of CPU power high end system have. I still think thats rather one of the compromises for the console and the PC version didn't get the attention it deserved.

In both cases its a failure. There are more than enough games that are finished at release, besides minor fixes of bugs etc. The betas and alphas some devs release shoudln't be a benchmark.

Purg
03-10-2017, 10:44
This was Knockhill in Ginetta juniors in career mode 100% ai. The AI also doesnt use full throttle in the very wet (while raining) it appears.

I also found them braking as if it was dry in damp conditions (not raining) at oulton park in a custom race also.

Has anyone else come across this?

I found the opposite to be true when it comes to braking in the wet. The AI brakes much earlier and I can break just short of where I would break in the dry. This is at AI on 100% in the Junior series. After the last patch, the AI in the wet are much faster at Knockhill - previously I could lap them because they were so slow after the chicane. Wet performance is still quite spotty but it's much improved over release.

Being an Aussie, I've been doing a lot of racing at Bathurst - again, the AI break quite early there and are quite slow at the top of the mountain but in the several different series I've tried just in practice, I'm usually in top 3 in the wet - if I'm first, it isn't by much. Before the patch, I was at least 5 if not 10 seconds faster.

Leper Messiah
03-10-2017, 10:49
If thats case you bite more than you can chew. Balancing is a important part to make a career and the overall singleplayer worthwile. Being ambitious is nice and good, but you should be realistic about what you can actually archive so you can actually finish what you started. Otherwise you simply failed.*

In some way I agree SMS have bitten off more than they can chew, but that shouldn't be something to castigate them on. That's usually how envelopes are pushed wider, play it safe and you end up with everyone doing Forza clones...now THAT would be crap.




No it doesn't make sense to mention that some people are very inconsistent. It rather sounds like a lame excuse in that case.

*Same about multiclass/endurance. Its only a feature on written on the box, cause the AI also sadly fails in being efficent in these scenarios. Also its halfassed with no shared pit feature and rather small grids, considering that gigantic amount of CPU power high end system have. I still think thats rather one of the compromises for the console and the PC version didn't get the attention it deserved.

In both cases its a failure. There are more than enough games that are finished at release, besides minor fixes of bugs etc. The betas and alphas some devs release shoudln't be a benchmark.

sound like you don't understand what I meant. I'll explain further.

Player A says: Ai at track blah blah is too hard dammit, I'm at 60% ai and usually have a good race.

Player B says: Ai at track (same as above) is too easy dammit, I'm at 60% Ai and usually have a good race.

Two players equally skilled, player B is good at the track, player A is not. If you think everyone is good at every track then that's just plain daft. It's not a lame excuse is common fricken sense.

But hey be happy with the other PC sims that were never releases in unfinished, patchy states, like AC...er no, R3E...erm no sorry I mean like RF2...nope...where was I again?

Brado23
03-10-2017, 11:34
I think the best solution may be to implement a dynamically adjusting AI system where the game constantly monitors the pace of the driver, not only per lap but also through corners, and adjust the AI to suit plus or minus a certain amount. Everyone wants to have close racing with AI and this would ensure that without having to worry about AI pace sliders etc. If you have a slider at all it would be to slow them down or speed them up against your own speed, not some artificially created amount.

Just a thought.

Bealdor
03-10-2017, 11:38
I think the best solution may be to implement a dynamically adjusting AI system where the game constantly monitors the pace of the driver, not only per lap but also through corners, and adjust the AI to suit plus or minus a certain amount. Everyone wants to have close racing with AI and this would ensure that without having to worry about AI pace sliders etc. If you have a slider at all it would be to slow them down or speed them up against your own speed, not some artificially created amount.

Just a thought.

Sounds good on paper first but doesn't really work because it takes away the accomplishment of improving your racecraft.
Because when the player gets better, the AI does too.

TKMSte66
03-10-2017, 14:25
I found the opposite to be true when it comes to braking in the wet. The AI brakes much earlier and I can break just short of where I would break in the dry. This is at AI on 100% in the Junior series. After the last patch, the AI in the wet are much faster at Knockhill - previously I could lap them because they were so slow after the chicane. Wet performance is still quite spotty but it's much improved over release.

Being an Aussie, I've been doing a lot of racing at Bathurst - again, the AI break quite early there and are quite slow at the top of the mountain but in the several different series I've tried just in practice, I'm usually in top 3 in the wet - if I'm first, it isn't by much. Before the patch, I was at least 5 if not 10 seconds faster.

Im on Xbox so maybe this has been balanced out a bit better. I gave up with career mode as it was just a rubbish with the way they where driving.

jayblue
03-10-2017, 15:02
The AI is very unbalanced at the moment. The game is unplayable unless you start a session, check their times, then adjust the AI to suit you speed and restart. Even then the AI has unbelievable grip in some turns and then are very slow in others. In terms of their actual driving around my car I haven't had too many issues however.

In the career mode Ginetta Junior opening races I have had it set as high as 100% and then as low as 70% the next race. Surely if the game sends back data to the devs regarding lap times etc that information can be used to correct this problem? Is there not a way the AI can be tuned based on the average player lap times that the devs now have access to?

gcx
03-10-2017, 15:50
Yeah it's not like it's off by 0.5 or 1 second, it's sometimes 4-5 seconds a lap off depending on the track/car/weather combination.

When you lead in the wet and suddenly lose 3-4 seconds a lap because it's drying up (no one changed tires), it's bad.
When you're in a championship and have to fiddle with the difficulty from 40 to 100 between races, it's bad.
When you qualify 9th, 1.5 second off the pole and win easily with a 20 second lead in the race (same weather for Q and R), it's bad.
When you qualify 1st, 0.1 ahead and end up lapping 3 seconds off the pace in the race (same weather for Q and R), it's bad.
When you're in a race with a car that has no gearing adjustments and no wings, and the AI with the same car blasts past you on a straight, it's bad.

All those happen, I've experienced them at some point and others have mentioned it in other threads. I don't think that this is in any way exaggerated, nor should be shut up about it.
If SMS can fix those issues, Project CARS 2 will be my favourite sim, as it has the content, the features and the physics, which other sims fail to deliver in one package. Sadly, the offline racing experience is currently inferior to R3E, rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa and Automobilista because of unbalanced AI.
It has the potential to kick every other sim's ass though, which is why we're here to give feedback to SMS.

creepyd
03-10-2017, 16:03
The OP examples don't seem too bad to me, I'd be happy if that was the extent of the problem.
Imo the larger problem is track to track, where you'll find you match them at 85% on one track, then massively outpace them on another, and be massively behind on another (I'm talking 2-5 seconds per lap difference).

I still honestly think the solution is that each 'bend' or 'section' posted by players comes in to improve the AI.
120% AI should be capable of pretty much the same speed as the fastest player posted times.
Whether possible or not, that would be the ideal AI for me in any racing game.
Since the data is then crowd sourced, it shouldn't take too long to balance the AI fairly well on most track/car combinations.

johnnyone
03-10-2017, 16:07
I wholeheartily agree with you guys, Hope they fix it soon.

doneta
03-10-2017, 16:11
The AI is very poorly implemented. They are much too fast around turns on cold tires and that's if they don't end up in a pileup on turn 1.

Project Hatstand
03-10-2017, 16:21
It may just be me, but to me 3 seconds on a lap on Monza is a big gap - from 1.48 to 1.51 is a big difference in my world...

That's just 3%

Back when I cared about F1, they had a 107% qualifying rule.
Remember, this is with 26 of the top 100/500/1000 drivers in the world. (Not sure about the actual number, but it is low. Even top million is the top 0.002% drivers of the world.)
Are we so evenly matched I wonder?

(And yes, the rule was aimed as much at the cars as the drivers, but the powers that be would like you to forget that as well....)

7% is not a bad number actually - I could just about manage 106% of pole time when I was in a league in R3E and I was the slowest driver.

I envy the programmers/designers task in getting the AI right (I'd love to have a go at that), but I don't envy them dealing with the criticism and moaning they will have to put up with, even if they get it right! (And as we couldn't agree on what perfect AI is, they won't get it 'right'......)

I hope they improve it.
But I like what they have already achieved.

gcx
03-10-2017, 22:50
Is it possible to mod the AI difficulty...? After all, isn't this a Community Assisted Racing Simulator?
Are the talent files exposed somewhere like in the good old days?

Roger Prynne
03-10-2017, 23:23
^ Nope.

gcx
04-10-2017, 15:07
Well that sucks.

So what other options do we have to get the AI balance fixed besides whining to SMS? :p

Mad Al
04-10-2017, 15:16
Well that sucks.

So what other options do we have to get the AI balance fixed besides whining to SMS? :p

Waiting for those people who are trying to get it better to actually get it better... and adjusting a single AI setting won't help, there are tyre balance issues to sort as well as specific track to track imbalances... If you set an AI strength of 80 it should be fairly even across a complete championship, no matter the track, car or weather

bporion
04-10-2017, 16:37
Anybody try a warm up lap ? They are crashing into each other .

Roger Prynne
04-10-2017, 18:28
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1360124&viewfull=1#post1360124

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50638-Project-CARS-2-general-discussion-thread&p=1360291&viewfull=1#post1360291

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1359697&viewfull=1#post1359697

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51832-On-the-topic-of-AI&p=1371870&viewfull=1#post1371870

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53258-AI-Lap-Time-improvements-when-Skipping-session-to-end&p=1371877&viewfull=1#post1371877

gcx
12-10-2017, 00:36
Tried patch 2.0, in career mode with the Ginetta Junior at Donington Park National (so where I left off my career because of random AI strength in it).
Difficulty set to 85, aggressivity to 75.
AIs are lapping in the low 1:25s, best lap time on PC in the leaderboards, with a wheel, 1:26.2. This doesn't seem right, it means nobody can beat the AI set at 85 with that combo. And that was set with low fuel tank and perfect track conditions.

I can't believe this wasn't fixed in the patch, considering it is the begining of career mode. Disappointed. :(

Lipti
12-10-2017, 05:33
Tried patch 2.0, in career mode with the Ginetta Junior at Donington Park National (so where I left off my career because of random AI strength in it).
Difficulty set to 85, aggressivity to 75.
AIs are lapping in the low 1:25s, best lap time on PC in the leaderboards, with a wheel, 1:26.2. This doesn't seem right, it means nobody can beat the AI set at 85 with that combo. And that was set with low fuel tank and perfect track conditions.

I can't believe this wasn't fixed in the patch, considering it is the begining of career mode. Disappointed. :(

Try karts as the beginning of the career, it's even worse. See http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55089-Kart-career-frustration

Eric Everfast
12-10-2017, 06:12
I'm without the game until November 7th so I don't really know where I stack up against the AI yet, but these difficulty/aggressivity settings are just metrics. Are you guys able to adjust the AI standards to make yourselves competitive? If so, then you're golden. From what I've read in the forums so far, the more pressing issue was concerning the unnatural pace the AI has in adverse conditions. This has been supposedly improved in the patch, so that's good.

sp3ctor
12-10-2017, 06:19
Iíll say this: I kept the settings the same from pre-patch to post-patch whilst testing TMS road course and the AI seem to behave much better. Itís still challenging but itís much less insane and they handle the turn into the road course without the AI pile-up. Also, wet weather slowed them pretty significantly...

JDFSSS
12-10-2017, 06:38
I'm without the game until November 7th so I don't really know where I stack up against the AI yet, but these difficulty/aggressivity settings are just metrics. Are you guys able to adjust the AI standards to make yourselves competitive? If so, then you're golden. From what I've read in the forums so far, the more pressing issue was concerning the unnatural pace the AI has in adverse conditions. This has been supposedly improved in the patch, so that's good.

Yes, I've always been able to find an AI difficulty setting that works for me. The only problem was that setting could change a lot depending on the track/weather/cars. Ideally, you would do some running in race conditions first to see where the AI is at then adjust their difficulty if needed. This could be something they improved with the latest patch though. I'll need to do more racing against the AI before I can say.

BYF
12-10-2017, 12:09
The focus should be on the career events for now as the track/weather conditions are fixed and track/car is specific. So far easier to balance successfully. Could be the case that SMS simulating so much is the issue.

Cholton82
12-10-2017, 12:45
When you say track / weather conditions are fixed does that mean no snow races in GT3 ?

fbiehne
12-10-2017, 13:01
Talking about balancing the AI the first thing that comes to my mind are the Group C cars. I had a short race today at Silverstone, AI set at 97%, aggression at something around 40%.
In the qualifying I became 2nd with a margin of 1.5sec to the 1st AI. The 3rd placed AI was also 1.5-2 sec behind me. Why these huge gaps?

So the first AI (Nissan GTP) is 3-4 sec faster than the rest of the field?! I know, the Nissan is fast but this much? If the speed is realistic take it out of the Group C cars.
There is no fun in racing just one AI who wipes the floor with the rest of the field.

3800racingfool
12-10-2017, 15:56
Talking about balancing the AI the first thing that comes to my mind are the Group C cars. I had a short race today at Silverstone, AI set at 97%, aggression at something around 40%.
In the qualifying I became 2nd with a margin of 1.5sec to the 1st AI. The 3rd placed AI was also 1.5-2 sec behind me. Why these huge gaps?

So the first AI (Nissan GTP) is 3-4 sec faster than the rest of the field?! I know, the Nissan is fast but this much? If the speed is realistic take it out of the Group C cars.
There is no fun in racing just one AI who wipes the floor with the rest of the field.

I noticed this also with some of the other classes (LMP2 specifically off the top of my head). One of the bigger things I've noticed though is that, in multi-class races, the AI cars seem to base their times on whatever class the player is racing. Example:

Ran a race with a practice session at Daytona Road Course with GT3, GTE and LMP2 classes (so an IMSA knockoff race). When driving the GTE car (at 80/60 AI) I can outpace the entire field (including LMP2 cars) by about 1-1.5 seconds. However, if I run the exact same event with the exact same settings (time/date/ai/weather/etc) but I run an LMP2 car, I outpace the field by about... 1-1.5 seconds. The difference though is that instead of running low 1:45s in the GTE car, I'm running low 1:43s/high 1:42s in the LMP2 car. Looking at the rest of the field, the fastest AI GTE car when I was driving GTE was about 1:46.7. When I was driving LMP2 the fastest AI GTE car was a 1:45.5 (with another GTE running about .2 back). In LMP2 the same thing happened. When running GTE the fastest AI LMP2 was about 1:46.2. When running LMP2 the fastest AI LMP2 was 1:44.3.

Normally I'd chalk this up to traffic or whatnot, but these were 30 minute sessions and there were plenty of cars running in clean air during that time.


The other thing that could use a look is the overall pace of the SP300/R. It's pace is drastically (3+ seconds) slower than most of the other vehicles I've raced at 80/60 when racing it against identical opponents. (in class it's the fastest there is but honestly, who races trackday as a class?)

DozUK
13-10-2017, 07:57
Do large puddles now effect the ai much the same as they do human drivers. Previously they sped through large track width puddles as if they wasn't there while I would have to slow significantly in order to handle the obstacle in front.

wadafaka
13-10-2017, 22:22
it's so frustrating.. I started out with 65% difficulty in G40 Junior based on my previous PC1 career...won my first races.. by a mile.. so then went to 70.. 75.. still won. Put it on 79 today (because that's the highest AI level where they don't mess with the setup yet), AI qualifies a good 3 seconds faster than me no matter how hard I push. Patch changed it? I dunno, difficulty was all over the place in PC1, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's the case here too. They are imho ridiculously fast now in rain/foggy conditions on tracks like Silverstone International/Brands Hatch GP with the Ginetta G40 Junior. So now, I gotta figure out what level to set the AI again...back to 65? Only to change it back the next race..argh. I just want an exciting race, not to qualify/finish first all the time, but also not finish last by miles... at the very least you could have an AI RANGE.. so then the field would be spread out more, but it increases your chance of having a car to compete with on your own level.

Edit: I just checked, the whole field of AI beats world record laps (PC2 leaderboards) on a cold foggy day at only 79% difficulty :\ that is just not right.

Martin03
13-10-2017, 23:19
Im in.. what ever the endurance series in tier 2 is called, the LMP2-LMP3-GT3. And my problem is that it takes so extremly many restarts to find ok AI setting. In qualify they just drive in trains, so result is spread arround with all the classes mixed together and you dont get a proper-ish result before clicking skip to end. And then you finally complete the qualify with a ok setting, and finish 4th, 1.1sec behind 1st place. Then the race on same settings and after 3laps im leading by 6sec to 2nd place...

So an example to that from Barcelona race:
After many tries in qualify I end up with: AI 70%, 4th, 1.1sec behind 1st

Race:
Attempt #1: I think same AI from qualify should work right? But after 3 laps im leading by 6sec, so restart, not doing 1hour all alone in front
Attempt #2: I increase AI to 80%, but almost identical result
Attempt #3: I increase AI to 85%, but almost identical result
Attempt #4: Im tired, increase AI to 100%, but almost identical result
Attempt #5: Im really tired, increase AI to 120%, suddently they are allians compared to before
Attempt #6: Back down to 105%, and now it's... ok, not perfect but getting close to something
So from 70% in qualify to 105-ish% in race, on same track, same cars and almost same conditions...

Right now to play career mode is so much work, so much time needed tosetup these AI, and that is why when people mention how much work they do to AI for the last patch but adds NO details to patchnotes about the changes. So have to go through this process without knowing anything what to expect on every single race on every single session...

davidt33
13-10-2017, 23:26
The AIs still seem to be on crack or some other illegal substance IMO.
<---Embarrassingly lowered down to 15% now. Please don't tell anyone.

Roger Prynne
13-10-2017, 23:55
Hey everyone David has reduced his AI to 15% what a looser :biggrin-new: :wink-new:

davidt33
14-10-2017, 01:05
Hey everyone David has reduced his AI to 15% what a looser :biggrin-new: :wink-new:

<----Shame face.

davidt33
14-10-2017, 16:56
Hey everyone David has reduced his AI to 15% what a looser :biggrin-new: :wink-new:

UPDATE: Hi Roger, guess what? I've taken a walk on the wild side and upped the ante to 20%. So there. Ha.
Go me Go!!!!!

wadafaka
14-10-2017, 17:32
So I tried the AI on 66% difficulty and 70 aggression. Seemed a pretty good match at Knock hill..came first but not by much, so I upped it to 68 and continued on. I got 6th during practice (30min) then qualified last (15min) and quickly got into position 6 where I was battling the AI. Then it started to rain and suddenly I left them all in the dirt :| and this is the result:

242824

edit: I mean it's just impossible to select a good AI difficulty cuz it keeps swinging from extremely fast to extremely slow

gcx
14-10-2017, 18:07
Yup, at this stage, there's just nothing you can do, even with lots of effort, the career is just no fun at all.
I'm waiting for it to be patched, the latest one did nothing to improve this.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again, being at the start of the career mode, I can't believe this isn't at a higher priority on the list of issues to address.

I know it's not easy to balance, but come on...! The weather is scripted in career mode, so that shouldn't even be a factor!

johnnyone
14-10-2017, 18:14
The AI still needs alot of tuning. hope SMS addresses it soon,this game will be so great,I think it will outdo any other racing Sim !

Mad Al
14-10-2017, 18:14
...

Edit: I just checked, the whole field of AI beats world record laps (PC2 leaderboards) on a cold foggy day at only 79% difficulty :\ that is just not right.

Which specific track are you talking about here ?

wadafaka
14-10-2017, 18:15
Which specific track are you talking about here ?

I believe it was Brands hatch GP in the fog (career) with Ginetta G40 Junior

davidt33
14-10-2017, 19:43
Told you the AIs were on crack.

wadafaka
15-10-2017, 20:37
Yeah but not all the time..

delpinsky
15-10-2017, 21:14
So I tried the AI on 66% difficulty and 70 aggression. Seemed a pretty good match at Knock hill..came first but not by much, so I upped it to 68 and continued on. I got 6th during practice (30min) then qualified last (15min) and quickly got into position 6 where I was battling the AI. Then it started to rain and suddenly I left them all in the dirt :| and this is the result:

edit: I mean it's just impossible to select a good AI difficulty cuz it keeps swinging from extremely fast to extremely slow
I hope SMS will be able to fix the AI once and for all, in the next months.
I really want to buy PCARS2, but since I play mainly offline, in single player, a solid AI is what I need the most.

koly
15-10-2017, 21:49
I hope SMS will be able to fix the AI once and for all, in the next months.
I really want to buy PCARS2, but since I play mainly offline, in single player, a solid AI is what I need the most.

Solid ??
with RS01 and Nordshleife i need to play at 15%, and i have world record :)
with dry/sun, AI is awesome, too much aggressive at start and first turn, or too slow, but it's fine :)
Yes if they improve,it can only be good :)

Jezza819
16-10-2017, 00:18
edit: I mean it's just impossible to select a good AI difficulty cuz it keeps swinging from extremely fast to extremely slow

It seems to vary from class to class and track to track. What works at one track doesn't work at the other.

leopcardoso
16-10-2017, 13:03
Is it too much dreaming, one day, to reach a point where we will no longer have to change the difficulty from one track to another, or from one class to another? It seems to me difficult, considering that this was the only problem since the PCARS1 and now, besides, it has the difference from dry to rain .. this is discouraging!