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View Full Version : I suck! Formula Rookie @ Knockhill International. I can't keep the car on the road!



AndysonofBob
05-10-2017, 21:18
The first turn to the right. I keep spinning but the AI cars don't?

What am I doing wrong? Is there a knack to this turn? I notice it is on the crest of a hill so I guess the cambre isn't ideal

How on earth did Stu get 45 seconds?!

Any tips greatfully received. The car is default. I have the settings turned to as sim as possible and that's how I would like them to stay. I just want to suck less! :)

Thanks!

major sunscreen
05-10-2017, 21:23
Things you can do to limit or eliminate the so called 'lift-off oversteer'

Driving
lift off the brake more carefully at the end of the braking zone
apply less steering at corner entry
brake earlier and accelerate earlier
no tail-braking, brake in a straight line
apply a bit of throttle while going off the brakes to stabilise the rear
Setup
raise rear wing
reduce front camber
increase front springs / lower rear's
increase front dampers / lower rear's
try the 'first-' dampers first, they have a smaller effect on handling than the 'bound' and 'rebound' dampers
apply more positive toe at the rear - be careful, the car will understeer more
reduce value of the acceleration differential ('diff power')
increase braking differential ('diff coast')
put more brake bias to the front
increase ARB in the front / reduce at the rear
Of course you don't have to do all of the above all at once, try one, if it helps, that's great. If not, try an additional one.

Bliman
05-10-2017, 23:01
The first thing you have to do is put on wets.
If you do this,I think you will have no problem anymore.
Certainly try this the first.
There is plenty of grip with the wet tires.
Before that I struggled massively at the same spot and no set up change would work for me.

resmania
06-10-2017, 01:22
With the default setup you’ll struggle a lot.

xtro
06-10-2017, 02:50
Are you playing with a wheel or a controller ? I dont want to upset anyone here but I'm 99% sure you're own setup is poorly calibrated... You can win with the default car setups in most races. 1) Take the time to fine tune your breaks ... make sure you can comfortably and consistantly apply 30-70% on the breaks -- red bar at the bottom right of your screen 2) increase your controller speed sensitivity to 50 and keep wheel sensitivity at 50 3) adapt your FFB based on that .. 4) Don't use the clutch.. downshifting with the clutch will likely make you lose balance unless you know how to heel-toe.
I would say don't even open the car tuning menu until you can do laps with confidence (no lift oversteer problem). Lots of people complained about the Clio... it's the same issue. They have their controller setup messed up

AndysonofBob
06-10-2017, 17:28
I think it is my positioning on corner 1 tbh. I will defo put wet, though that feels wrong?!

Because I am scared of the corner, I really slow down - far slower than the AI cars, they blitz past me on the corner.
I also make sure I am not braking when I hit the corner. Yes, I have slowed down so much I have ample time to take the brakes off so the car stabilises. A good two seconds (yes I know!).
I still spin out. Even on my third lap.

The corner has nasty camber.

Has anyone else played F Rookie on Knockhill International? Where do you hit the corner?

Thanks!

major sunscreen
06-10-2017, 17:32
You need to also have a touch of power on to stabilize the rear. Also rear toe out will stabilize the rear. Lower springs and increase ride height at rear, opposite at front, should help a bit. When I get back to my pc I'll throw my settings on here which I made with a stable rear in mind.

rice_classic
06-10-2017, 20:13
Rear toe out Should never stabilize the rear of a vehicle. Maybe you mean toe in? On PCARS2 positive toe is toe in, at least according the info on the right side of the screen.

AndysonofBob
06-10-2017, 21:03
Thanks

@major sunscreen
Yes please!

zzjorzz
06-10-2017, 21:43
With the default setup you’ll struggle a lot.

I noticed that too.

Bliman
06-10-2017, 22:38
I shall be honest. I play with the controller and I could not get this corner right, with the slicks.
And apparently there is an issue with the dry tire warming so when this is fixed I will try again with slicks.
All I can say that the most chance (could drive a couple of laps without spinning there)that I had was when I braked early, go more slowly then the AI there and made as little steering adjustment when going over the hill.
I know it feels wrong to drive with wets on the dry but I think this is justified because the slicks aren't working for the moment to there best of abilities.

peterCars
06-10-2017, 22:41
traction control assist if you're gutless like me and just want to get on with the game for now.

Trippul G
06-10-2017, 23:44
FWIW, if people still want to do Formula Rookie in their careers, I did the American championship and had zero issues. Sure the tires don't heat up very much, but I dropped the pressures as low as they'd go, softened the rear sway bar, added some rear toe-in, and dropped the rear ride height a bit. Felt great, and I was able to be competitive with no assists.

SIR_Driftalot
07-10-2017, 00:21
Try doing a few laps with the wet weather tyres on.

I've just completed Algrave in the formula rookie, 80% AI, with the slicks on and the tyre pressures all the way down I was 5 seconds off the pace, changed to the wets and now I'm 2 seconds up pushing half as hard as before.

You'll also find it gets rid of the rear trying to swap ends on you with even small weight shifts, which is what's happening to you on T1 on Knock hill.

Sounds counterintuitive, but just try it and see.

taz1004
07-10-2017, 05:26
I tried riding along with AI on few other tracks to learn the lines and they drive unrealistic lines. I wish there's telemetry or some kind of feedback screen to see what the car is doing. I'm not even sure how I can tell if the car is bottoming out. And maybe I'm missing something but can't even check tire temps while paused. I have to look at the HUD while driving.

Zeem
07-10-2017, 05:42
I've been doing Formula Rookie on an Xbox controller on near-default settings and I never have the car spin out, very rarely even lose control. I do use TCS and stability assists though and the car feels very secure on the road.

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 09:11
Rear toe out Should never stabilize the rear of a vehicle. Maybe you mean toe in? On PCARS2 positive toe is toe in, at least according the info on the right side of the screen.

Yeah I wrote that in a hotel room in the middle of the night. I've never been one to get too excited about stuff like that- half the stuff is poorly described as it is hence my own piss poor description. So I'll correct it here as "fiddle with the rear toe until it does what you want".

AndysonofBob
07-10-2017, 09:12
Thanks again for the replies.

For no other reason than blinkered stubbornness I don't want to add any assists bar the factory settings.

With the wets the track was amazingly fun! I guess I am nit a not a noob really, but I am also not a pro. I am worried I will pick up bad habits.

People seem to be advocating wets, for now. Is there anything I should be aware of to minimise bad habits?

If slicks are an issue, are they just an issue for this car?

Thanks!

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 09:37
I've had no issues with slicks, no thermal issues etc. Except for Formula C which are not heatable. IMHO the wets are way too grippy but thats a highly subjective issue. comfortably winning in 81 % difficulty. I'll be on my pc in a bit with that set up. ;)

drathuu
07-10-2017, 09:41
The corner is a tough one.. even with a wheel, you can get lift off oversteer in the corner.. Trick is to brake a little earlier, left off the brake before turning in and apply 15% or so throttle as you gently turn in.. (However on a controller this is very challlenging).. wheel and pedals is much easier.

As others have said (more +ve Toe) can help..

Essentially the right turn is over a crest and downhill, as your also braking all your weight is over the front of car, you then turn and crest putting more weight on the front left.. and leaving almost no weight on the rear (and so it loses traction).. Increasing comnpression dampening on fronts will stop front diving so much, increasing rebound dampening on the rear springs will stop them unloading so easily.. However applying a smoother brake pedal (Not on Off).. and smooth steering inputs (not on off) is the only way you will get this super quick.

That said, if wets are working then so be it, however hopefully the slicks issue is fixed or balanced better.

AndysonofBob
07-10-2017, 13:10
I am playing with the g29.

For FR, it's surprisingly tricky! :)

Really looking forward to the setup. Tbh. I would be just copying it blindly! No idea what a toe in is or does! Tbh I don't even know what under steer is! I guess my trouble is oversteer?

Trippul G
07-10-2017, 13:21
^Here's a good place to get schooled: :cool:

https://driver61.com/uni/

Also,

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53371-How-to-Develop-Your-Racing-Skills

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 13:41
Tyre compound slick- front press .90 bar rear .80 bar, brake press 85 balance 55/45 weight 46/54

Caster front 3
Camber front -1
Ride height 70mm
Spring front 53n/mm

Rear camber -1
Ride height 85
Spring 20n/mm
Steering ratio 10.0.1
Tow in front -0.2deg
Anti roll front 20n/30mm
Rear toe 1.0 degrees
Antiroll rear 5n/30mm

Dampers front
Bump 20mm
Slow bump 4200
Slow rebound 4000
Fast bump 2200
Fast rebound 3100
Bump transition 250
Rebound transition -210

Rear
Bump 20
Slow bump 3500
Slow rebound 4600
Fast bump 2025
Fast rebound 2750
Bump trans woo
Rebound trans -300

Gears
Final 3.444
1st 2.846
2nd 2.125
3rd 1.611
4th 1.261
Ecu
Traction control 1%
Abs 0
Diff off

Enjoy and please let me know how you get on. I mashed this setup together so there's plenty left in the tank. I have a g920 with Jack spades awesome files.

AndysonofBob
07-10-2017, 14:08
Can not wait!

Thanks. ��

What Jack Spades do you use? My wheel is essentially the same as yours

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 14:14
Standard mid comp- gain 100, everything else 50, menu spring .05. On pc.It gives me sore hands.. but lots of road feedback at knockhill which is good ;-p
As you come down the pit straight there's a cone on the left. I brake a couple metres before that for turn 1, hard initially then rapidly and progressively less so that I can turn in and have almost a semi straight line through the apex, on the power again before the apex feeding it in slowly, about 30% through the crest/apex then smoothly back on. Stay left for the right hander.
Pole by 1.5 secs in 85% difficulty. Race easy win. Needs tweaking I think but I'm at donnington now and struggling in P11

AndysonofBob
07-10-2017, 14:16
Again... Thanks!!!

Wtf is menu spring? There is not a tool tip for it

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 14:23
I think it's an artificial force applied to your steering wheel to keep it centred in like the garage while you enjoy a cuppa. I could be wrong..and probably am

AndysonofBob
07-10-2017, 14:31
That does make sense.

Overall i dont think the ffb in pCars2 is as good as AC especially when with that LUT mod which transformed my G29 in AC

BUT

The return to center force, when the car corrects itself, is noticeably better in pCars2. I actually let go of the wheel now when straightening out; something I would never do in AC. I can now imagine those lucky ducks with DD ffb wheels!

Thanks again :)

skipptg
07-10-2017, 14:38
If you take all the air out of the tyres and put wets on you absolutely clean up in Formula Rookie. Surely that's a bug? Either way it's good fun!

major sunscreen
07-10-2017, 14:46
That does make sense.

Overall i dont think the ffb in pCars2 is as good as AC especially when with that LUT mod which transformed my G29 in AC

BUT

The return to center force, when the car corrects itself, is noticeably better in pCars2. I actually let go of the wheel now when straightening out; something I would never do in AC. I can now imagine those lucky ducks with DD ffb wheels!

Thanks again :)

One of the first things I do when I'm setting up is dial the last ratio so that I'm just below redline on the longest straight. Then adjust the others based on corners and acceleration. Why just below redline? So that you have the ability to take advantage of slipstream from other cars. Then the rest of the setup flows from there..

cepwin
07-10-2017, 19:04
I can certainly relate to your issues .... I'm slow in every racing game/sim I've ever done...so I too very much appreciate the advice that's been given in this thread!

taz1004
07-10-2017, 22:37
Traction control 1%
Abs 0


I'm confused about Traction control. In the game help, it sounds like 100% is turning it off. Is this typo? And for ABS, 0% is off?

Trippul G
07-10-2017, 23:58
I can't say for sure about PCARS2, but I'd assume that it's similar to the first game in that regarding TCS, the number refers to % wheelspin allowed, so 1% would be nanny mode, whereas 15% (which i think was the maximum) would be a lot less intrusive and allow more slip.

major sunscreen
08-10-2017, 04:47
Assists are on authentic but..
ABS off but very important to get the brake pressure right and traction control because the thread author was spinning out at turn 1 Knockhill and it's a very bumpy circuit at some high power places like off the final turn. There is method to the madness, at least I should say there's thought behind the madness.
Interesting point about ABS. I've found getting the brake pressure right much more useful in being able to out brakethe competition. ABS lengthens braking zones..
There's people out there who know a lot more about this than me. If anyone has better advice follow it ;)
"Supersic's super sick tuning guide" on Steam (I found it via Google search) is the best guide I've found to help me out, as I don't come from a racing background so my technical knowledge is limited. It's a very good guide.

Zeem
08-10-2017, 07:37
Never been a fan of ABS since I feel that's getting a bit too intrusive into my driving style, but Traction/stability assists do make things a lot more accessible. You can always switch them off later once you get the hang of things.

major sunscreen
08-10-2017, 07:45
^
Absolutely agree with that 100%. Especially the stability assist when you're first starting out as otherwise it's very easy to lose heart before you learn what you need to about tuning. This is far better advice than anything I've contributed!

AndysonofBob
08-10-2017, 18:32
So much better!

major sunscreen's setup has made an astonishing amount of difference. I can take T1 at speed now and my lap time is less than a minute, with room for improvement.

I still oversteer but that's because I am pushing the car way too much.

Thanks!!!

major sunscreen
09-10-2017, 05:27
Really glad it's helped :)
There's probably more you could fine tune on it in terms of either unlockingbmore pace or making it react more to your own driving style as it's only a base setup really. I had a mess around at donnington with the dampers because of the bumps through the downhill bit and suddenly it was half a second a lap quicker and rode the bumps better so do muck around with it. Got 4th in class in timetrial..the setup for that is there to copy- how to do that-can't remember so you may need to search the threads. Note of caution- some people set a fast time then change the setup before they quit so that others can't copy their setup. I really couldn't care less so for that donnington setup what's there is what I used. I've found understeer can creep in as well on that base setup. That tuning guide I mention above is awesome for helping and total credit to whoever put that together. It deserves it's own thread IMHO.

AndysonofBob
09-10-2017, 07:05
It's a competitive game!

Is there an index/list like guide to describe the effects of changing the parameters for pCars2? e.g. rear toe in -ve will.... +ve will
The guides are clearly awesome, Just too verbose for me!

gregc
09-10-2017, 11:03
Have you tried just running some laps in time trial, with a ghost that's a bit faster than you? There's no substitute for practice, and with a ghost or two you'll see the actual lines that a real person is taking.

smokozuna
11-11-2017, 04:42
put the car on wet tires and all your problems will be solved

AndysonofBob
11-11-2017, 06:40
put the car on wet tires and all your problems will be solved

I did try that at first (before MajorSunscreen`s setup) but it `felt` wrong. The ai wouldn't be using them so I shouldn't either.

Wets certainly helped though!