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View Full Version : On career weather and an idea for improving weather in general



Trippul G
08-10-2017, 18:54
(TL;DR ADDED AT BOTTOM OF POST)

While it's cool that we have extreme weather conditions in the game, I also think they can be a source of frustration for the player.

Being a "sim", there's a reasonable expectation that experiences we have in the game are something close to what we might experience in real life. Herein lies the problem. A lot of these extreme weather situations just aren't conducive to racing IRL. Formula cars aren't going to go racing in the snow, and GT cars are not likely to go racing in the middle of a thunderstorm with deep standing water left right and center all over the track, and gallons of rain continuing to be chucked down. Such situations would at minimum call for a safety car, or more than likely for the session to be either red flagged or not started in the first place.

I haven't played an extensive amount of career, but I think some frustration comes about because of being faced with weather conditions that would, IRL, as I said, cause the session to be stopped/delayed. The player has an expectation to be able to race (this is a racing game, after all), but is frustrated when he can barely control the car at all. Unfortunately, IRL, a real race driver would probably feel the same in similar conditions. (This is compounded all the more in situations where the AI does not seem to be affected by adverse conditions in a similar way to the player).

I think maybe worth considering is limiting "extreme" weather to something like Private Testing only. Anything more extreme than "Rain", including Thunderstorms, Blizzards, and the like, should not be included at all in career (with the possible exception of Rallycross, which essentially is built to race in anything short of a Category 5 hurricane).

Along these lines, I had a thought about the whole "slot" system and how "Random" isn't really satisfying because it inevitably leads to silly situations like sunshine followed by blizzards, followed by thunderstorms, etc. Plus the fact that there are more "bad" weather options than "good" for the game to pick from, and chances are, most of the time you're going to get some form of precipitation.

What if there were a way to limit the pool of what "Random" chooses from? For example say you picked two weather slots, and you could tell the first slot to only choose between clear, light clouds, and light rain. You could then do the same with the second slot, essentially allowing you to decide on the rough probability of rain you want, while keeping some degree of uncertainty, but limiting the possibility of off-the-wall weather types.

No idea how difficult something like this would be to implement, but I personally think I would really enjoy it.


*edit* TL;DR:

1) Extreme weather (thunderstorms, snow, etc. should never appear in career with the possible exception of Rallycross, and should perhaps even be eliminated from all competitive game modes and be limited only to Private Testing.

2) I'd love to see a way for the Random weather setting to be able to pull from a user-defined list of weather types, instead of all available.

Marlborofranz
09-10-2017, 07:46
This is something that bothered me a little bit as well.

E.g. each weather slot lasts 1 hour by default. (More or less, the transition time is random) But in real life sometimes you just have 10 minutes rain and then it stops again. You can realize this by increasing the weather acceleration. But the problem is, that when you accelerate the weather, also the track gets wet/dry much quicker.

Because I love the effects like the racing line drying quicker if it is hot enough due to the cars on track. Or the track becoming more and more moist during the race and you slowly have to avoid the puddles. But if you accelerate the weather to get weather transistions in short races, then the track often gets moist/dry within 1/2 laps which is not realistic.

So to keep it short: The duration of each weather slot should be able to be defined without accelerating the track dynamics. Because at the moment the dynamics are just working as intended when you have real-time weather acceleration, which means the race needs to be more than an hour long so you get to the transition at all....

Purg
09-10-2017, 08:07
I would like the option to set initial track conditions as well. Clear now but wet track. Simulate a race carnival - track is ruberred in %. As you suggest, one of the best facets of live track 3 won’t be experienced by many.

Zeem
09-10-2017, 08:21
Completely agreed with everything here, for how realistic the game wants to present motorsports, the way weather generation works is decidedly unrealistic. There's definitely improvements that can be made to better take advantage of Livetrack.

Marlborofranz
09-10-2017, 08:27
Totally agree with that... LiveTrack 3.0 is amazing and I love everything it does. But 70% of the dynamics are never going to be experienced in a realistic way unless you race at least over an hour.

Would be amazing to be able to set up the track conditions rather than just the weather.
And of course also the weather-slot duration without influencing the actual track dynamics...

Roger Prynne
09-10-2017, 08:29
Some of these things are going to be addressed in the very near future with regards to weather in career

Pteradon
09-10-2017, 08:55
Some of these things are going to be addressed in the very near future with regards to weather in career

Thats good news.

Yesterday i started a new career in the GT3 class with the R8 LMS.
The first race was on the Oscherleben A course.
The track was full of snow and i wasn't even able to leave the pitlane without colliding with a wall. (sliding with approx 15km/h)

M4MKey
09-10-2017, 09:01
2) I'd love to see a way for the Random weather setting to be able to pull from a user-defined list of weather types, instead of all available.

I worked on a spreadsheet for Project CARS 1 that was basically a table of realistic probabilities for each type of weathers and you could just take a roll at random.org and look in the spreadsheet to know which weather you would use. I'm trying to update it with pC2. Blizzard and Thunderstorm would not be used for example, and snow would only appear on winter season. ( Because yes, probabilites are different depending of the season too )

Roger Prynne
09-10-2017, 09:14
Thats good news.

Yesterday i started a new career in the GT3 class with the R8 LMS.
The first race was on the Oscherleben A course.
The track was full of snow and i wasn't even able to leave the pitlane without colliding with a wall. (sliding with approx 15km/h)

Ian said that snow will be removed at least.

Marlborofranz
09-10-2017, 09:27
Ian said that snow will be removed at least.

Do you know if there will also be the possibility to speed up the weather progression without influencing the track dynamics? Because if you now accelerate the weather by 20x then the track dries 20x quicker than it should... And this is something what I love about racing online, the decision if you go to pit or not, whether the time will be enough. Kind of pokering... but atm if it starts raining and weather is accelerated, you have no chance other than changing rain tires immediately because the track will be undrivable within 2 laps for everyone. Whilst with slow progression someone might do a mistake and changes rain tires while you actually with some luck could finish the race with slicks...

Flashgod
09-10-2017, 09:55
Do you know if there will also be the possibility to speed up the weather progression without influencing the track dynamics? Because if you now accelerate the weather by 20x then the track dries 20x quicker than it should... And this is something what I love about racing online, the decision if you go to pit or not, whether the time will be enough. Kind of pokering... but atm if it starts raining and weather is accelerated, you have no chance other than changing rain tires immediately because the track will be undrivable within 2 laps for everyone. Whilst with slow progression someone might do a mistake and changes rain tires while you actually with some luck could finish the race with slicks...

Oh yes, thanks for this reply. Please revise track conditions and fast forwarding weather conditions. As an example, in career mode, the BAC Mono invitational event on Cadwell Park is a real horror trip. While the weather is visually stunning, the track temperatures drop within minutes. Can't tell if this is possible IRL, but a drop from 14C to 7C within one lap seems a bit too much. The AI seemed to ignore it, but for me it was a real struggle to meet a new situation at the same spot every minute and a half. Track conditions should be handled seperately via real time calculations.

Trippul G
09-10-2017, 23:34
I worked on a spreadsheet for Project CARS 1 that was basically a table of realistic probabilities for each type of weathers and you could just take a roll at random.org and look in the spreadsheet to know which weather you would use. I'm trying to update it with pC2. Blizzard and Thunderstorm would not be used for example, and snow would only appear on winter season. ( Because yes, probabilites are different depending of the season too )

I'm not sure I follow. In fact, I'm sure I don't...lol

So the idea behind this spreadsheet is what, exactly? To determine the probability of the type of weather you'll get if you select Random?

That would be nice to know I guess, but I'd really like to be able to have direct control over what "Random" actually pulls from. It'd be almost like adding songs to a playlist...you select Random (your playlist), then you add the weather conditions (your songs) that you want it to pick from. Only difference in the analogy would be that it would only "play" the first weather condition that it randomly picked, and would then move on to subsequent weather slots (which could be a fixed weather type like we currently have, or Random again, and so on until there are no more slots).

Not sure I'm explaining that the best way possible, but hopefully it makes sense.

M4MKey
10-10-2017, 09:44
My spreadsheet is just a workaround to randomize a "realistic" weather in the game. You don't use the random button at all in the game with my method. :)
242419
Here is a quick preview of how it looks. ( still lots of work to do before being "ready" for use )

Trippul G
10-10-2017, 13:29
^Ahh, ok cheers for that, now I think I get it. So you take the track you're racing at, determine the region it's in, then take a roll at random.org and feed that number into the list of weather probabilities in your chart to determine what type of weather to fill your weather slot(s) with in-game. That's pretty cool, definitely would be preferable to the wackiness we currently are prone to getting with simply selecting "Random" for our slots.

The only problem with this method is that once you've set things up, you know exactly the weather you're going to get once you start your session. It would be great if a process mimicking this could take place in-game under the hood when you select a Random slot, but short of that, this seems like a pretty good alternative.

I think ideally I'd still prefer the ability to exactly specify which weather types I'd like "Random" to pull from...it may not be meteorologically accurate, but it would allow you to eliminate the bonkers weather types, while still allowing for a degree of uncertainty of what's actually going to come your way once your session starts.

ryans
13-10-2017, 15:52
I would prefer it if random weather was at least seasonal. Then we could select 'summer' and 'random' and not see a blizzard...