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Mattyking101
11-10-2017, 19:09
Can any1 help me,noob on here,1st off GREAT GAME,defanetly a good upgrade from pcars1,My problem is my down shift is realy unresponsive when i down shift fast from high gears,it works fine when im in 4th and go down to 1st fast but if im in 5th or 6th and want to go down to 1st i have to literally press my padlle 8/9 times.It worked fine yesturday and today its costing me 2seconds a lap

Renoldo1990
11-10-2017, 19:31
Copied from the other Thread:

Project CARS 2 is a racing simulation. So it tries to represent the cars as realistic as they are in real life.
Many modern race cars use a Down-Shift-Protection in real life. For example GT3, GTE-Cars. Without this system the engine would be killed within a few laps by constant rapid-'fire'-downshifting. So when you are over a certain amount of rpm while shifting it will not work.
You can't turn it of in real life, so you can't turn it off in Project CARS 2, too.

The system as it is represented in the current version has a few weaknesses. But it is said that there will be improvements for this system in the upcoming patches.

For me this is potentially the biggest improvement in comparison to Project CARS 1, because it leads to much more realistic driving.

Exoil
11-10-2017, 22:09
For me this is potentially the biggest improvement in comparison to Project CARS 1, because it leads to much more realistic driving.

It could be if it worked perfectly fine, but I don't think it does. When going down the straights on Le Mans with a LMP car the game won't let me downshift from 7th to 6th until the revs are 3000 from the rev limit on 6th gear. Same with TC from 5th to 4th gear.

The lower gears works fine, I can downshift at or around the rev limit but when shifting down from the highest gear I lose a lot of engine braking with those 2-3000 rpm missing. The GT3 cars I have tried have been a bit more allowing with downshifting and I haven't felt anything wrong in the cars I've driven

Glirra
11-10-2017, 22:35
Did it come with the new patch? Same issue for me and it doesn't work well at all. Did not have any down-shift protection before the patch.

Exoil
11-10-2017, 22:45
Did it come with the new patch? Same issue for me and it doesn't work well at all. Did not have any down-shift protection before the patch.

Yeah, it came with the patch. If it would work like it should it's a great addition that adds to the realism. Right now, as I said, it doesn't work that well in some cars.

loslogo
11-10-2017, 23:03
It feels broken

Warmos
12-10-2017, 00:31
i got nerfed :)

donkey racer
12-10-2017, 03:44
i was racin the astra tc round donnington gp an noticed downshifting to 3rd seems to be broken

ProDriver
12-10-2017, 10:19
We are racing in FA4RACERS league with the Formula Renault 3.5. After the patch has introduced the downshift protection in that car, now we cant downshift as in the reality, here you have an onboard of a real driver with the FR3.5:

https://youtu.be/N2sESpfDl2Q

In it, you can see how the driver shift down 4 gears in the bus stop. Now I bet all of you to try to do it in PC2 patch 2 and tell me the results.

SIR_Driftalot
12-10-2017, 10:54
We are racing in FA4RACERS league with the Formula Renault 3.5. After the patch has introduced the downshift protection in that car, now we cant downshift as in the reality, here you have an onboard of a real driver with the FR3.5:

https://youtu.be/N2sESpfDl2Q

In it, you can see how the driver shift down 4 gears in the bus stop. Now I bet all of you to try to do it in PC2 patch 2 and tell me the results.

It’s not about shift speed per say, but rev matching.

Try staying on the brake a bit longer before downshifting into the lower gears, shift protection will only kick in if thinks you’ll redline the engine pulling a lower gear.

On a side note, I had the pleasure of seeing Max Verstappen during the 2014 F1 at Suzuka come into the last chicane the whole weekend, and he knows how it’s done!
He knocked two gears off in pretty quick succession, a smidge after getting on the brakes, waited another split second for the revs to die down and the aero to stabilise, then three gears in rapid fire, bang, bang, bang. He only really went down to second after his initial turn in, and right before the apex, spot on, every time. It was a joy to watch.

bigair199
12-10-2017, 13:31
1. No, it does not work properly at all. There is absolutely no consistency to it at all and caused a bunch of wreck's because of the inconsistency. I drove the Vette last night and could down shift at one point to where it tached out and spun. Then the next race I could be almost be stopped and it not down shift.

2. Was this really such a concern with people that it had to be put in this patch above all the other bug's and glitches and then on top of that not work right?

3. Why not make it an option if you can't implement it correctly, ex. Formula A. Last I checked this would be detrimental to the stopping ability of these cars.

4. I'm sorry if I sound a little pissed but this game hasn't worked right since it's launch and this is a priority? I mean now if you, as a host, start a new room the cars are stuck from the old room in the lobby screen and the liveries scroll through all the players cars. My point being why not wait and see if the patched repaired the parts that were broken and check to make sure new bugs didn't pop up before we worried about nonsense like this that isn't going to do anything but piss people off more who were struggling to get the game working right in the first place?

Renoldo1990
12-10-2017, 14:41
1. It's known by the devs that the Downshift-Protection has some weaknesses at the moment. It was also stated that this will be improved within the next patch(es).

2. It was in the PC-Version since Release. The PS4-Version was on an much older build in comparison to the PC-Version. So the 2.0-Patch for the PS4 consists of two Patches - the first which updated the build of the PS4-Version to the Build of the PC-Version (this includes the Downshift-Protection) and the second contains the first bigger Bug-Fixes.

3. I'm sure it will be implemented correctly soon.

4. See point 2.

superdry
12-10-2017, 14:47
Only in this game could they implement a feature which is known to be in need of a further patch to get it right.

Renoldo1990
12-10-2017, 15:16
Well, the PC-People have this since release and it doesn't seem to be an big issue for them.

I'm very happy that it's implemented. But i also hope that it doesn't take too long till it works as it should.

Every major sim-racing-title uses the Downshift-Protection-System. Iracing, Assetto Corsa, Raceroom..
In my opinion implementing this feature in Project CARS 2 is one step more in the direction of a realistic and ambitious Simulation-Title.

legacy-8
12-10-2017, 15:17
I think it's a great inclusion, and I have adapted to it very quick, so don't experience the issue too much

The more realistic, the better for me!

bigair199
12-10-2017, 15:43
I think it's a great inclusion, and I have adapted to it very quick, so don't experience the issue too much

The more realistic, the better for me!


Ok then answer me this, are the cars REQUIRED to have this in real life? I can understand wanting to have it in real life but isn't this still a choice for the race teams?

Why can we turn off damage in the game, you can't in real life? Why can we turn off mechanical failures, you can't in real life? What's the use of having mechanical failures turned on if your going to restrict my ability to drive the car the way I want?

My point is it should be an OPTION, not a requirement. If I want to take the chance of damaging my transmission it should be a choice, just like real life.

legacy-8
12-10-2017, 16:11
Ok then answer me this, are the cars REQUIRED to have this in real life? I can understand wanting to have it in real life but isn't this still a choice for the race teams?

Why can we turn off damage in the game, you can't in real life? Why can we turn off mechanical failures, you can't in real life? What's the use of having mechanical failures turned on if your going to restrict my ability to drive the car the way I want?

My point is it should be an OPTION, not a requirement. If I want to take the chance of damaging my transmission it should be a choice, just like real life.

All I know is, if I downshift from 6th to 1st in quick succession in my Civic at speed, I wouldn't have much of a car left!

bigair199
12-10-2017, 16:18
All I know is, if I downshift from 6th to 1st in quick succession in my Civic at speed, I wouldn't have much of a car left!

Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off Damage? Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off mechanical failures? No, I didn't think so.

legacy-8
12-10-2017, 16:20
Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off Damage? Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off mechanical failures? No, I didn't think so.

No, but I also don't have a nagging wife sat next to me in PC2!

Bealdor
12-10-2017, 16:29
Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off Damage? Do you have a button in your Civic that turns off mechanical failures? No, I didn't think so.

Turning off damage doesn't make you unrealistically faster...

There's a difference between implementing helps for inexperienced players (assists, turning off damage) and allowing you to cheat in an unrealistic way.

Roger Prynne
12-10-2017, 16:51
Ok then answer me this, are the cars REQUIRED to have this in real life? I can understand wanting to have it in real life but isn't this still a choice for the race teams?

Why can we turn off damage in the game, you can't in real life? Why can we turn off mechanical failures, you can't in real life? What's the use of having mechanical failures turned on if your going to restrict my ability to drive the car the way I want?

My point is it should be an OPTION, not a requirement. If I want to take the chance of damaging my transmission it should be a choice, just like real life.

Do some searching and find out for yourself.

bigair199
12-10-2017, 19:05
Do some searching and find out for yourself.


Now there's a quality response folks! lol Out of all the questions I asked, this one small part is all you could muster a response too and with nothing really to help in any way! I asked because I couldn't find it myself there Roger. For the record I never said it wasn't needed or was a bad idea I merely stated IMO it should be an option and what I felt was questions justifying that option. In an earlier post I stated that you should probably make sure it actually works right, which it doesn't, before you put it in a patch developed to fix other bugs and glitches. Maybe if they prioritized the already existing bugs and glitches people wouldn't ask so many questions. Hell, this isn't even taking into consideration the new ones that popped up because of the patch.
Basically, if the game looked and played the way it was advertised from the beginning things like this probably wouldn't be that big of a deal especially considering that it doesn't work properly either.

Roger Prynne
12-10-2017, 19:24
It wasn't meant to be a snide remark, just meant if you looked for it yourself you might have more knowledge on the subject.
Sorry if it came across differently.

superdry
12-10-2017, 19:31
Horrible response from a Mod but I’ll maybe try to help you with an answer.

In the real world, Cars (either racing or road) will have some form of downshift protection. Modern sequential boxes will have this to prevent drivers from accidentally downshifting outside of set parameters to prevent damage to the engine and /or gearbox.

Older cars with sequential shift may not tend to have this as it pre dates the kind of software or monitoring ability of more modern gearboxes.

H Pattern boxes are different, but the synchromesh of the gearbox may prevent downshifts in certain circumstances.

The problem here IMO is that it has been implemented in the game but there are issues with the functionality in the game which needs further patching.

In PCars 1, I would simply shift as fast as I want and if I got trans lock or damage the engine then it was my bad

It sounds like the implementation of this requires a change in driving style which is going to take time for people to get used to. If it was fully implemented without issues then the change might not have been so problematic for individuals.

Hope this helps in some way.

bigair199
12-10-2017, 20:27
Horrible response from a Mod but I’ll maybe try to help you with an answer.

In the real world, Cars (either racing or road) will have some form of downshift protection. Modern sequential boxes will have this to prevent drivers from accidentally downshifting outside of set parameters to prevent damage to the engine and /or gearbox.

Older cars with sequential shift may not tend to have this as it pre dates the kind of software or monitoring ability of more modern gearboxes.

H Pattern boxes are different, but the synchromesh of the gearbox may prevent downshifts in certain circumstances.

The problem here IMO is that it has been implemented in the game but there are issues with the functionality in the game which needs further patching.

In PCars 1, I would simply shift as fast as I want and if I got trans lock or damage the engine then it was my bad

It sounds like the implementation of this requires a change in driving style which is going to take time for people to get used to. If it was fully implemented without issues then the change might not have been so problematic for individuals.

Hope this helps in some way.


Sincerely I do appreciate the explanation and I understand everything about it I was just trying to get a clarification as to why it couldn't be an option. Now I do also understand how the game is manipulated without it so i get that but with all the parts of this game that are not working correctly that this took priority in a patch that was supposed to fix things and on top of everything doesn't work right itself it pissed in my Wheaties. lol Like I said, if it worked right and was consistent then it wouldn't affect me because using the downshift to manipulate or cheat is simply not my driving style. I'm not too old to adapt, I just want what I paid for and I promise I'm trying not to be a dick about it. lol

Now as far as Roger's response I do appreciate that greatly because it did come across condescending, at least to me it did. lol

superdry
12-10-2017, 20:51
I would prefer it to be an option too but I guess we get what we are given with this game (whether or not it is well implemented).

Maybe the problem is understanding which cars have it downshift protection. ...that would be a nice thing to have.

For understandable reasons, the unresponsive downshifts have been presumed to be a bug. Let’s hope the next patch will make it less of an issue.

I’ll be doing some further analysis of shifting when I have some real time, particularly around H Pattern shifting and clutch.

(As a side note - In real life, I’ve owned a car which had downshift protection and also wouldn’t let me upshift if i was outside the RPM parameters that was set. Whilst there is good reason, I hated it. I want to choose what gear I use and went I want it hence purchasing a fully manual shift car)

loslogo
12-10-2017, 20:58
Make it an option please. I absolutely hate it. You can no longer double tap to skip gears. It's just not as fun at all.

Roger Prynne
12-10-2017, 21:57
Now as far as Roger's response I do appreciate that greatly because it did come across condescending, at least to me it did. lol

Like I said it was not meant to be like that.... it been a long hard few days of moderating and I've been tending to give short answers (to save my poor fingers and sanity)
So once again I apolagize.

moniker_a
12-10-2017, 22:47
Although it may not be perfectly implemented, I think they should not make it optional. It really alters driving style, in a good way. I do understand the counter point of not having included it as part of the patch until they refined it, but it’s probably best everyone start getting used to it sooner rather than later. Getting closer to reality is a good thing.

Civic
13-10-2017, 03:01
Ian Bell posted in another thread this feature will be toned down in an upcoming patch.

That's a good thing because it has been applied a little to aggressive in some cars such as the Z4 GT3.

Dirtryder
13-10-2017, 03:05
I think this is what it should be all about. Fun. The new down shift is not fun. Bring back the fun.

Bealdor
13-10-2017, 06:04
Sincerely I do appreciate the explanation and I understand everything about it I was just trying to get a clarification as to why it couldn't be an option. Now I do also understand how the game is manipulated without it so i get that but with all the parts of this game that are not working correctly that this took priority in a patch that was supposed to fix things and on top of everything doesn't work right itself it pissed in my Wheaties. lol Like I said, if it worked right and was consistent then it wouldn't affect me because using the downshift to manipulate or cheat is simply not my driving style. I'm not too old to adapt, I just want what I paid for and I promise I'm trying not to be a dick about it. lol

Now as far as Roger's response I do appreciate that greatly because it did come across condescending, at least to me it did. lol

It was always meant to be in the game (and it was from the beginning on PC).
Unfortunately the release version of the consoles was a few builds behind the PC and this feature missed the D1P for you.
I do understand that it's a comparatively significant change for post release though.

It's not an option because it's also there to avoid cheating in the competitive game modes like TT for example.
I can assury you that you'll get used to it and it'll get fine tuned in the upcoming patches anyway.

Foggy77
13-10-2017, 09:51
Same here :upset:
Since patch 2.00 Downshifts are allover the place.
Selecting the right gear for approaching corner, Just won't let me, by the time the game decides I can have that gear, I've lost all momentum with no engine breaking whatsoever and subsequently fallen off track. My Lap times are allover the place and finding the cars undriveable and a pain in the backside to drive now.
It's happening with all cars and I ain't no F1 Quick style down shifter either as I always have Mechanical Failures on.
The game is unplayable like this and has no consistency since latest patch. I use a G29.

Martini Da Gasalini
13-10-2017, 12:22
I totally agree with OP, I've posted vids regarding this using group A cars, some do it, some don't, and the ones that don't in private practice then do it in online racing, it's getting frustrating :/

loslogo
13-10-2017, 12:36
Get rid of it.

donkey racer
13-10-2017, 12:51
its no fun
it should be an option

ProDriver
13-10-2017, 15:08
An option no!! Well adjusted YES!!!

Rallylee
16-10-2017, 08:19
This downshift protection is game destroying. Waiting for the rpm to drop below 3.000 before your able to shit down is not sim at all. V8 supercars (BF Ford falcon) dont have shift protection and you have to blip the throttle to rev match but it just won't shift. It was fine before patch 2.0

xtro
16-10-2017, 15:00
Has anyone played with the Shift Minimum time setting in the controller settings panel... it is originally set at 0 ... yesterday I set it to 1 and had a much easier time shifting with a porsche 962 -- not missing upshifts and normal downshifts. I am not referring to the DSP which was still there but the weird shifting behavior. I'm curious if it was a "placebo" or if fiddling with this setting can help. On the other hand the F40 still didnt work... you need to press the clutch twice for a downshift to engage on that car. weird.

superdry
16-10-2017, 15:49
Is this being investigated at all by Devs?

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 15:52
Is this being investigated at all by Devs?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55005-XB1-Patch-2-0-Discussion-thread&p=1395792&viewfull=1#post1395792

bradleyland
16-10-2017, 17:51
A couple of notes on downshift protection. I don't know exactly how it is implemented in pCARS, but I have spent some time in the paddock at IMSA races and talked to some folks about how it works in real cars.

In a real race car, the durability and longevity of the car is just as important as outright pace. In order to finish first, you have to finish. This results in two significant differences to sim racing:

1) Downshifts are typically performed at lower RPM than you see in sim racing.

2) Real world drivers frequently hold a higher gear through corners than sim racers. They do this to extend the longevity of the gearbox (all those extra shifts add up).

If you listen closely to the cars in an IMSA race, you'll notice that most of the time, the drivers brake hard early on, but leave the car in gear. As they approach the corner, you'll hear them fire off several downshifts in a row. I talked to some folks about this, and they gave me two reasons:

1) It's much easier on the gearbox. Some drivers will float the clutch a bit to absorb some shock as well.

2) It results in more stability under braking. Because engine braking only affects the rear tires, it's effectively a 100% rear-biased braking effort. Aggressive downshifting destabilizes the car.

Another thing that I did not know is that you cannot slam down through the gears when braking force exceeds a set parameter. The engine's inertia is coupled to the driveline (obviously), and under high braking loads the actuation of a downshift can severely damage the driveline. The faster you spin an engine, the more inertial energy it has. During a shift, all that energy is fed through the driveline, where it encounters the firm grip of the brakes. The resulting shock can break gears or sheer splines.

Of course, all of this only applies to GT cars (GTE & GT3). I've never been to an open wheel or touring car race.

Like I said, I don't know exactly how downshift-protection works in pCARS 2, but IMO, it is a welcome addition. I always hated that pCARS 1 rewarded some utterly ridiculous shifting behavior. IMO, this is not something that should be optional, any more than it should be optional to give your car 50 additional horsepower. Excessive, unrealistic engine braking is an advantage that simply should not exist.