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LVracerGT
12-10-2017, 03:12
Can we please have some details on what exactly was changed for some of the important things? The change log is very vague and leaves a lot open to speculation. For example:

• Enhancements to various cars’ handling and standard setup improvements.
- Which cars and what was changed? I don't want to have to guess and go and drive every car in the game trying to figure out what feels different.

• Improvements and enhancements to steering wheel support.
-Which wheels and what was changed? Was my wheel included in the changes? I'm sure a lot of other people would also like to know for their wheels.

It really shouldn't be hard to include these things so we don't have to keep guessing.

Ponce
12-10-2017, 03:23
Moderators removed my thread posting about this issue. What the **** is this, north korea?

Aldo Zampatti
12-10-2017, 03:26
Nope, but watch your language. I don't have more information about the patch notes, so I can't help with that.

Ponce
12-10-2017, 03:33
So go find out? People paid 60 dollars for this game and we're supposed to accept "I don't have more information, so I can't help with that?"

dault3883
12-10-2017, 03:33
Can we please have some details on what exactly was changed for some of the important things? The change log is very vague and leaves a lot open to speculation. For example:

• Enhancements to various cars’ handling and standard setup improvements.
- Which cars and what was changed? I don't want to have to guess and go and drive every car in the game trying to figure out what feels different.

• Improvements and enhancements to steering wheel support.
-Which wheels and what was changed? Was my wheel included in the changes? I'm sure a lot of other people would also like to know for their wheels.

It really shouldn't be hard to include these things so we don't have to keep guessing.

i can answer your first bulliten the Oval indy car was definitely effected and not in a good way it likes to try to spin out going down the straits now

ThunderKnob
12-10-2017, 03:42
Project CARS 2 - Patch 1.2.0.0
Improved driving line assist.
Various AI behavioural and race line improvements.
Multiple improvements and enhancements to multiplayer, and lobby handling.
Improvements and enhancements to audio and sound effects.
Improvements and enhancements to replays and replay cameras.
USB keyboard support improved.
Improvements, enhancements and fixes to Career flow.
Enhancements to various cars’ handling and standard setup improvements.
Tweaks and fixes to Achievement / Trophy unlock logic.
Tweaks and fixes to setup UI and flow.
Improved default assists for gamepad users.
Fixes and improvements to headlights and brake lights.
Fixes and improvements to ICM appearance and functionality.
Improvements and enhancements to steering wheel support.
Fixes and improvements to certain weather / tyre combinations.
Optimisations to tracks across the game.
Myriad render and performance tweaks and improvements.

resmania
12-10-2017, 03:44
Obviously devs not gonna tell you the technical stuff.
But I do agree that the patch note could be more specific.

M-PowerX
12-10-2017, 04:12
So go find out? People paid 60 dollars for this game and we're supposed to accept "I don't have more information, so I can't help with that?"

Why are you so rude?
My other gaming experience are Grand Turismo and Fifa, in that cases forget to have somone answering your questions...

3800racingfool
12-10-2017, 04:16
Couple of things I've noticed which are kinda nice:

+ The pit stop timer is much improved. It now splits up the the pitstop into three 'stages' and shows a progress bar for each stage. So no more wondering why your pitstop is taking so long!
+ The lap invalidation text has been improved. If you invalidate in the last sector it now tells you that both the current as well as the next lap are invalid. As an added bonus, it will also pop up on the following lap telling you that the lap is invalid due to your screwup in the last sector. Much more understandable now.
+ Headlights are much brighter now and definitely more noticeable.
+ Noticed I've squeaked out a few more FPS. Nothing ground breaking but still ~5 frames higher than it was.
+ ICM is no longer dead-center of the screen, not a big deal for me but should hopefully help out folks who had it covered by their wheels previously.
+ The pit box markers are fixed now so they actually display properly. So much nicer being able to actually know what pit box is yours.


Those are some of the obvious ones I've found so far, I'll post more as I find them.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 04:18
Couple of things I've noticed which are kinda nice:

+ The pit stop timer is much improved. It now splits up the the pitstop into three 'stages' and shows a progress bar for each stage. So no more wondering why your pitstop is taking so long!
+ The lap invalidation text has been improved. If you invalidate in the last sector it now tells you that both the current as well as the next lap are invalid. As an added bonus, it will also pop up on the following lap telling you that the lap is invalid due to your screwup in the last sector. Much more understandable now.
+ Headlights are much brighter now and definitely more noticeable.
+ Noticed I've squeaked out a few more FPS. Nothing ground breaking but still ~5 frames higher than it was.
+ ICM is no longer dead-center of the screen, not a big deal for me but should hopefully help out folks who had it covered by their wheels previously.
+ The pit box markers are fixed now so they actually display properly. So much nicer being able to actually know what pit box is yours.


Those are some of the obvious ones I've found so far, I'll post more as I find them.

Good spots. Those screaming for a complete list of every little thing we did (well over one hundred improvements and fixes) would be missing this joy of adventure :)

dault3883
12-10-2017, 04:19
Couple of things I've noticed which are kinda nice:

+ The pit stop timer is much improved. It now splits up the the pitstop into three 'stages' and shows a progress bar for each stage. So no more wondering why your pitstop is taking so long!
+ The lap invalidation text has been improved. If you invalidate in the last sector it now tells you that both the current as well as the next lap are invalid. As an added bonus, it will also pop up on the following lap telling you that the lap is invalid due to your screwup in the last sector. Much more understandable now.
+ Headlights are much brighter now and definitely more noticeable.
+ Noticed I've squeaked out a few more FPS. Nothing ground breaking but still ~5 frames higher than it was.
+ ICM is no longer dead-center of the screen, not a big deal for me but should hopefully help out folks who had it covered by their wheels previously.
+ The pit box markers are fixed now so they actually display properly. So much nicer being able to actually know what pit box is yours.


Those are some of the obvious ones I've found so far, I'll post more as I find them.

also the indy car pitstops do the fueling and tire change at the same time now instead of separate like they did before the patch

3800racingfool
12-10-2017, 04:26
Did notice a couple of bugs introduced with the patch as well.

- The most annoying one (imo) is that, if you go into the settings and put the driving assists on "Authentic", then start a session with a car that has one or more assists enabled, when you exit that session the driving assists setting is turned back to "Full" and all assists are usable by all cars in the following sessions until you change the assists back to Authentic in the settings menu.

- The HUD rearview mirror randomly appears when cycling through the available HUDs.

- If you use the ICM to call for a pitstop then pull into the pits, your pit crew is there ready and waiting (providing they're turned on in the settings). However, if you do not call for a pitstop and just drive into the pits, they do not appear, but you can still stop and service will be performed. (Tested in both custom race and free practice.)

Wayne Kerr
12-10-2017, 04:31
• Enhancements to various cars’ handling and standard setup improvements.
- Which cars and what was changed? I don't want to have to guess and go and drive every car in the game trying to figure out what feels different.



I hate to play devil's advocate, but does it really matter? Unless you've driven one or two cars extensively pre-patch, chances are you won't feel the difference across the spectrum anyway. So load your setup pre-patch, go drive it and then tune as necessary.

Sure drivers bitch about a change of tire compound in real life, but then end of the day when the light goes green they still stfu and get in the car and get on with it.

"Enhancement" and "improvement" is such a vague and subjective term to begin with. Theoretically speaking, if they took ultimate grip away by changing the friction ellipse of the tires (or reduced the aero of an aero car), but then made the tires' slip vs temp gain curve a bit more gradual, would you say it's an improvement or a step backwards? For the hotlapper it'll for sure be a step backwards, but for guys who races 60+ mins, I'm pretty sure they'd welcome the more forgiving tire in terms of heat range.

nhitrac
12-10-2017, 04:34
Good spots. Those screaming for a complete list of every little thing we did (well over one hundred improvements and fixes) would be missing this joy of adventure :)

For me, rightly or wrongly, I REALLY enjoy detailed patch notes for games and will read it line by line and get all jiggly over the littlest of fixes. Some of which are for things I didn't even know needed patching.

So on behalf of those twisted people like I, can we please get more detailed patch notes in future? ;)

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 04:37
For me, rightly or wrongly, I REALLY enjoy detailed patch notes for games and will read it line by line and get all jiggly over the littlest of fixes. Some of which are for things I didn't even know needed patching.

So on behalf of those twisted people like I, can we please get more detailed patch notes in future? ;)

There's a simple reason why the answer is no. In most patches we have a few 'fixes' and an absolute ton of 'improvements' and 'enhancements'. The longer the patch list is for said improvements, the more abuse we get about how many 'bugs' we needed to fix. So we'll keep the list short and allow people to enjoy the surprise additions, extras and improvements which we really enjoy adding for at least a year of the product's 'lifetime' last time out and I see this being no different.

Trippul G
12-10-2017, 04:50
There's a simple reason why the answer is no. In most patches we have a few 'fixes' and an absolute ton of 'improvements' and 'enhancements'. The longer the patch list is for said improvements, the more abuse we get about how many 'bugs' we needed to fix. So we'll keep the list short and allow people to enjoy the surprise additions, extras and improvements which we really enjoy adding for at least a year of the product's 'lifetime' last time out and I see this being no different.

So we can't know exactly what was changed because SMS are worried that if they were to publish a long list of things that needed to be fixed, it would be some sort of admission of fault, and are worried about their image as a result?

Sorry Ian, I'm not trying to have a go at you, but that's what it sounds like you're saying, and if that's the case then that's very disappointing.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 04:56
So we can't know exactly what was changed because SMS are worried that if they were to publish a long list of things that needed to be fixed, it would be some sort of admission of fault, and are worried about their image as a result?

Sorry Ian, I'm not trying to have a go at you, but that's what it sounds like you're saying, and if that's the case then that's very disappointing.

You've just absolutely proven my point.

There was no 'long list of things that needed to be fixed'. We found 5 'strong' issues and fixed 4 of them (I thought it was 5 but I've just heard the G920 issue is there for some people still) and 20 minors and fixed most of them for this patch. The list though is over 100 terms long and it's predominantly additions, improvements and enhancements.

bcruise
12-10-2017, 05:15
Driving line fix (and added options for full track/cornering only) will be welcomed by the newbies and those who are learning specific tracks, I'm sure. I noticed that the red braking zones are extremely wide and conservative, which means they should only be used as a general guide and not as an exact braking point. Having to find the place to brake inside that zone depending on your car/setup makes this a pretty nice teaching tool rather than just holding your hand. Also, green looks a lot better color for an acceleration zone. :D

Might be just me, but I'm driving the FA's with a controller better than ever - even on the default Loose setup.

FuzzyFassbender
12-10-2017, 05:25
@Ian Bell, can I ask if performance/optimizations are still in the plans (after this 2.0 update)? I'm running triple screens (5870x1080 @ 60Hz), with an i7-3770 (3.4-3.9 GHz). I had a GTX 1070 when PC2 was first released and had OK performance but I wanted better. I've just recently switched to a GTX 1080 Ti but it didn't make as much of a difference with PC2 as I thought, some other games I get around 40%-70% better framerate. "Other games" is neither here nor there, I realize I can't make direct comparisons.
I've tested various settings using Long Beach and 13 GT3 AI, starting from the back of the grid, on a clear day. With most settings on HIGH (MSAA medium) I'm getting around 50-75 FPS (give or take a few). Weather will make matters worst. I am monitoring CPU and GPU during testing, I don't think I'm bottlenecked by my i7-3770 as I can switch to my 3440x1440 monitor and the FPS will increase with same settings. I was hoping a 1080 Ti could hold a solid 60 FPS while running triples at higher graphical settings - PC1 looked better.

Otherwise, I'm really liking the PC2 improvements, especially the FFB and car handling. Thanks

Colt Firestone
12-10-2017, 05:27
Thank you for the patch.:)

Cheesenium
12-10-2017, 05:32
Thank you for the patch, SMS.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 05:35
@Ian Bell, can I ask if performance/optimizations are still in the plans (after this 2.0 update)? I'm running triple screens (5870x1080 @ 60Hz), with an i7-3770 (3.4-3.9 GHz). I had a GTX 1070 when PC2 was first released and had OK performance but I wanted better. I've just recently switched to a GTX 1080 Ti but it didn't make as much of a difference with PC2 as I thought, some other games I get around 40%-70% better framerate. "Other games" is neither here nor there, I realize I can't make direct comparisons.
I've tested various settings using Long Beach and 13 GT3 AI, starting from the back of the grid, on a clear day. With most settings on HIGH (MSAA medium) I'm getting around 50-75 FPS (give or take a few). Weather will make matters worst. I am monitoring CPU and GPU during testing, I don't think I'm bottlenecked by my i7-3770 as I can switch to my 3440x1440 monitor and the FPS will increase with same settings. I was hoping a 1080 Ti could hold a solid 60 FPS while running triples at higher graphical settings - PC1 looked better.

Otherwise, I'm really liking the PC2 improvements, especially the FFB and car handling. Thanks

We have some in there already. You should see a couple of percent of improvement. What we're doing with livetrack, a totally dynamic time of day and dynamic weather system really does tax hardware. But feel free to drop things like reflection detail (it's barely noticeable) and makes a big difference. The game is optimised to hell and back really. No one is running a tyre model remotely close to this sort of overhead.

Kebabfelix
12-10-2017, 05:40
Glad we can see laps in race now.

However joining a lobby still shows wrong information every time. Says 20 minutes of racing session but that could mean 5 laps or 8 laps. It's never correct before joining.

Delta still don't always work online.

Trippul G
12-10-2017, 06:02
You've just absolutely proven my point.

There was no 'long list of things that needed to be fixed'. We found 5 'strong' issues and fixed 4 of them (I thought it was 5 but I've just heard the G920 issue is there for some people still) and 20 minors and fixed most of them for this patch. The list though is over 100 terms long and it's predominantly additions, improvements and enhancements.

"Fixes", "improvements", "enhancements"...I feel like we're getting into semantics now. Bottom line is, a lot of things are different now. You guys obviously know what you've done, and have a list of what exactly those things are. All I'm saying is that it would be nice if that list of "things that are now different" were shared with everyone.

Digital Extremes, for example, put out absolutely exhaustive patch notes for each of their updates to Warframe, as evidenced here (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/809842-update-21-chains-of-harrow/). Something approaching that, in terms of level of detail (if not in sheer length) would be massively appreciated.

Ian Bell
12-10-2017, 06:07
"Fixes", "improvements", "enhancements"...I feel like we're getting into semantics now. Bottom line is, a lot of things are different now. You guys obviously know what you've done, and have a list of what exactly those things are. All I'm saying is that it would be nice if that list of "things that are now different" were shared with everyone.

Digital Extremes, for example, put out absolutely exhaustive patch notes for each of their updates to Warframe, as evidenced here (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/809842-update-21-chains-of-harrow/). Something approaching that, in terms of level of detail (if not in sheer length) would be massively appreciated.

We've chosen to go this way after our experience before.

R74NN
12-10-2017, 06:14
There's a simple reason why the answer is no. In most patches we have a few 'fixes' and an absolute ton of 'improvements' and 'enhancements'. The longer the patch list is for said improvements, the more abuse we get about how many 'bugs' we needed to fix. So we'll keep the list short and allow people to enjoy the surprise additions, extras and improvements which we really enjoy adding for at least a year of the product's 'lifetime' last time out and I see this being no different.

Honestly, no offense, but that's the weirdest reasoning for not releasing proper patch notes I have ever heard. If you don't tell people what exactly was fixed, they go try the game and will head back to tell you THIS is not fixed either way. Also, if they don't know if a bug was supposed to be fixed, they will report back just in case it was supposed to be and the fix didn't work.

Seriously, it makes no sense at all.

breyzipp
12-10-2017, 06:15
Good spots. Those screaming for a complete list of every little thing we did (well over one hundred improvements and fixes) would be missing this joy of adventure :)

LOL Ian :P

TooMuchCyanide
12-10-2017, 06:16
One thing I've noticed (I'm not entirely sure if anyone else has yet) is that Joker laps on the Knockhill rallycross layout work properly now. Yay!

SinceEighty3
12-10-2017, 06:18
Count me on the side of more detail please. This is something I think both SMS and Kunos have been refreshingly transparent about in updating their respective games, and it fits into the idea of collaborating with the community. We only need to wander over to the PCars1 announcement forum on this very board to see dozens of examples of detailed patch notes, even broken down per platform! (e.g. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35163-Project-CARS-XBox-One-Patch-2-0-Release-notes)

If there's been a change of philosophy since then, so be it, but I'd like to think the time saved from answering everyone's repeated questions of is X fixed or Y adjusted would be worthwhile.

whip
12-10-2017, 06:23
may as well not post any notes to be honest if these are the best we can expect

sp3ctor
12-10-2017, 06:28
I really like the pit timer change. I still wish you could move the ICM around in the hud menu. With my three monitor setup the ICM ends up on the far left monitor while I am trying to make changes using a keyboard on the far right of my setup... and drive. It’s sort of hopeless at the moment and I *really* like manual pit stops so I’m hoping this changes.

JDFSSS
12-10-2017, 06:31
There's a simple reason why the answer is no. In most patches we have a few 'fixes' and an absolute ton of 'improvements' and 'enhancements'. The longer the patch list is for said improvements, the more abuse we get about how many 'bugs' we needed to fix. So we'll keep the list short and allow people to enjoy the surprise additions, extras and improvements which we really enjoy adding for at least a year of the product's 'lifetime' last time out and I see this being no different.

That's unfortunate that you feel it needs to be this way, but I understand your point. For me, I think it's impressive seeing a long list of detailed patch notes. You can really see all the work that went into making the game better. I guess if all people looked at it like this there wouldn't be a problem. Also, a couple things from a practical point of view: it's nice to not have to test things that I previously avoided due to bugs only to find out the bug still persists, and some of the additions/improvements made can be missed for a while if they aren't documented in the patch notes. However, I did have a lot of fun sliding the improved Formula C car around in career mode yesterday to test if the tire heating issue was fixed.

Regardless, thanks to you and the team for getting the patch out relatively quickly and making a great game. It's awesome that you guys come on the forums regularly to communiate with us.

Kebabfelix
12-10-2017, 06:46
Honestly, no offense, but that's the weirdest reasoning for not releasing proper patch notes I have ever heard. If you don't tell people what exactly was fixed, they go try the game and will head back to tell you THIS is not fixed either way. Also, if they don't know if a bug was supposed to be fixed, they will report back just in case it was supposed to be and the fix didn't work.

Seriously, it makes no sense at all.

Yeah literally no one will jump in the game and believe "Oh all the things that was ever wrong is fixed now!" No, we have to bugtest everything again and report issues again.

Ineffective for us players, annoying for SMS to see more threads about what's fixed and not.

Loose loose.

nhitrac
12-10-2017, 06:58
Yeah literally no one will jump in the game and believe "Oh all the things that was ever wrong is fixed now!" No, we have to bugtest everything again and report issues again.

Ineffective for us players, annoying for SMS to see more threads about what's fixed and not.

Loose loose.

Agree with this and it's evident in some of the responses. One particular WMD member spamming "if it's not in the patch notes than it's not fixed"... clearly not the case here!

Mahjik
12-10-2017, 13:51
@Ian Bell, can I ask if performance/optimizations are still in the plans (after this 2.0 update)? I'm running triple screens (5870x1080 @ 60Hz), with an i7-3770 (3.4-3.9 GHz). I had a GTX 1070 when PC2 was first released and had OK performance but I wanted better. I've just recently switched to a GTX 1080 Ti but it didn't make as much of a difference with PC2 as I thought, some other games I get around 40%-70% better framerate.

PC2 and simulations in general (flight or driving) will always be more CPU hungry than GPU. Yes, PC2 looks phenomenal so you need a good graphics card. However, the CPU has to do all the calculations and "send" the data to the graphics card. If the CPU is the bottleneck, increasing your graphics card doesn't bring you any real gains.