PDA

View Full Version : Tire temps pcars 2



Pages : 1 [2]

AbeWoz
05-01-2018, 13:18
pCARS2 does have tire warmers (oven types) but not tire blankets. Huge difference between the 2. Not very many series use tire blankets. F1 and DTM are the only ones that come to mind for me.

prinsmp
06-01-2018, 08:49
Question, is it advisable/common to use asymmetric (different) camber settings per wheel to tweak tire temps, or should you always keep them identical? I am referring to wheels on the same drive shaft (front Vs front & rear Vs rear)

2nd, I noticed my tires pressure went stable at 1.7/1.8 +/- in 3 lap onwards, however as soon I a stood still for to check some temperatures, the pressure went up to 2.1+ bar within a couple of seconds. What's causing this, break heats / no cooling by driving, or is this a bug? Was running test at Redbull in Cayman, with 30c track temp

Thanks

AbeWoz
06-01-2018, 13:33
Question, is it advisable/common to use asymmetric (different) camber settings per wheel to tweak tire temps, or should you always keep them identical? I am referring to wheels on the same drive shaft (front Vs front & rear Vs rear)

2nd, I noticed my tires pressure went stable at 1.7/1.8 +/- in 3 lap onwards, however as soon I a stood still for to check some temperatures, the pressure went up to 2.1+ bar within a couple of seconds. What's causing this, break heats / no cooling by driving, or is this a bug? Was running test at Redbull in Cayman, with 30c track temp

Thanks

its the heat from the brakes dissipating into the wheel/tire.

also, you can run asymetrical setups if you desire. teams do it IRL depending on track configuration. some IMSA teams can/will run a different tire compound on each of the 4 corners (GTLM only since its on the 'open tire' class)

prinsmp
06-01-2018, 15:06
its the heat from the brakes dissipating into the wheel/tire.

also, you can run asymetrical setups if you desire. teams do it IRL depending on track configuration. some IMSA teams can/will run a different tire compound on each of the 4 corners (GTLM only since its on the 'open tire' class)

Thanks for the feedback. This tire temperatures management is like a game of chess : )

Jim clarck
10-01-2018, 08:01
greeting to all
Little question, for Sport tyres in F3.5, are they intended only for the rear, because on Silverstone, when I put the four rubber tires, I have a terrible vibration on my front axle.
thanks

iggy
11-01-2018, 17:07
Thanks for the feedback. This tire temperatures management is like a game of chess : )

Very much so... I've been running a lot of online racing where I set tire wear and fuel consumption to zero... so , basically the only thing left to cause handling differences from lap to lap is the tire temperature. I can easily see my lap times fall off if I over drive the car and heat the tires up too much... if I back off a little, see the temperature dropping I can feel the car driving a lot better. Much of this I'm also doing with default setup required, so others I'm racing with are driving virtually the same as anyone else, and you can for sure see performance changes as the race goes on, I attribute most of the change to tires temperatures , which is different for everyone, because some people drive in a way that doesn't cause too much heat to build up.... it really is interesting to observe.

Schnizz58
11-01-2018, 17:09
Thanks for the feedback. This tire temperatures management is like a game of chess : )

Tire management is everything in real-life racing so I'm happy that's becoming the case in the sim world too.

prinsmp
11-01-2018, 19:19
Tire management is everything in real-life racing so I'm happy that's becoming the case in the sim world too.

Agree, I expect these kind of details will keep most of us happy for a long time.

hkraft300
11-01-2018, 23:35
Long-ish tracks with >2:10 lap times in GT cars I notice if you push hard in sector 1 your tires start to give up in sector 3, like road America for example. Even at Spa, where s1 and s3 are quite easy on the rubber, if you push hard at the start of s2 you’re struggling at the s3 gate.

prinsmp
12-01-2018, 08:19
Do the wet tires have the same optimal tire pressures as indicated in the sticky from Casey?

Tobarus
16-01-2018, 19:16
What I don't understand and see over, and over, and over on these forums is why is all the data so secretive/cloak and dagger from the devs? People literally have no idea what numbers do what. We're literally just guessing here. Specifically, why is it not documented somewhere so [motivated] players can read about it? Something as mundane as the HUD color coding, etc. In all honestly, has anyone ever seen a legend that explains what tire colors on the HUD correlate to? For all I know, tire temps depicted in red means cool tires, blue means really hot tires. Is that how the devs programmed it? If I were to debate this, I dare anyone to quantitatively prove otherwise. If so, show me where it's documented?

Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

This is a fantastic game and the devs did an amazing job overall. But why is there no information available to decipher any of this? After all, all of this modelling, numbers etc were derived from data, so it does exist - why not make it available so players can use it? We're literally driving around having absolutely no idea what-so-ever what color coding means, what ideal temperatures are, etc, etc. You could argue, well, go to Pirelli's website and find the tire data. Well, how do I know what data the devs actually used? What is correct, what is not? (PSI, ideal temperature, etc)

It would be hugely beneficial to to community to make a guide that actually explains the science (numbers/data) behind it all - as little or as much as can be revealed.

Cristi
16-01-2018, 19:27
It would be nice to have technical details on the tyre compounds used... I asked a question earlier about formula r tyres and got no answer.

AbeWoz
16-01-2018, 20:09
what kind of technical details?

Cristi
16-01-2018, 20:41
what kind of technical details?

Recommend pressures, recommended temperatures, compound characteristics, wear rate details, etc. I would settle for the first two.

AbeWoz
16-01-2018, 20:48
Recommend pressures, recommended temperatures, compound characteristics, wear rate details, etc. I would settle for the first two.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

Temps also vary between compounds. 80-90C for softs. Higher for Hards.

Cristi
16-01-2018, 21:28
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

Temps also vary between compounds. 80-90C for softs. Higher for Hards.

And that's exactly what I mean. That post discusses tyre pressures, not temps. And, as the OP says, those are "rough targets". What tyres do they apply to? Are those hard, soft, or wet compounds? What about compounds such as Formula R's "sport"? What is that? What is it meant for? That post is just a tiny bit of information. It answers a very important question, but leaves multiple unanswered. If tyres are modeled after some real compound, I would like to see a list with that correspondence.

hkraft300
17-01-2018, 00:47
And that's exactly what I mean. That post discusses tyre pressures, not temps. And, as the OP says, those are "rough targets". What tyres do they apply to? Are those hard, soft, or wet compounds? What about compounds such as Formula R's "sport"? What is that? What is it meant for? That post is just a tiny bit of information. It answers a very important question, but leaves multiple unanswered. If tyres are modeled after some real compound, I would like to see a list with that correspondence.

The answer to a lot your questions, is: it depends. It depends on how you drive, where/ when you drive, what your aim is, how you have the car tuned... TT/ sprint/ endurance race...

AbeWoz
17-01-2018, 02:26
And that's exactly what I mean. That post discusses tyre pressures, not temps. And, as the OP says, those are "rough targets". What tyres do they apply to? Are those hard, soft, or wet compounds? What about compounds such as Formula R's "sport"? What is that? What is it meant for? That post is just a tiny bit of information. It answers a very important question, but leaves multiple unanswered. If tyres are modeled after some real compound, I would like to see a list with that correspondence.

a fair amount of this info you seek has been mentioned in this very thread. worth a read through.

Cristi
17-01-2018, 05:45
The answer to a lot your questions, is: it depends. It depends on how you drive, where/ when you drive, what your aim is, how you have the car tuned... TT/ sprint/ endurance race...

And yet, tyre manufactures do actually give out this kind of information.

Cristi
17-01-2018, 05:46
a fair amount of this info you seek has been mentioned in this very thread. worth a read through.

I did read the whole thing. What there is is a lot of speculation. Now, don't get me wrong. This is not a game breaker. It's just a nice to have. It would take a lot of the guess work out of the process.

hkraft300
17-01-2018, 06:36
And yet, tyre manufactures do actually give out this kind of information.

Yes they do. Doesn't mean you will get the best performance following those guidelines - that comes down to race engineer/driver experience.

Cristi
17-01-2018, 06:44
Yes they do. Doesn't mean you will get the best performance following those guidelines - that comes down to race engineer/driver experience.

True, but at least you have a good starting point.

hkraft300
17-01-2018, 13:12
True, but at least you have a good starting point.

Fill in the blanks.

If Mr Ringley says "roughly 1.8 bar for GT and prototypes", that would mean all compounds for all GT1/3/4/E and LMP1/2/3.
There are a lot of overlap and grey area as I mentioned before. I'm yet to figure out if at le mans on a 35c track it's faster to run soft or hard tires.
Testing and variables. There's enough information here for the good starting point you ask for.

Some people don't browse the forum and find out all through blind testing as they progress through career.

rich1e I
17-01-2018, 13:52
Fill in the blanks.

If Mr Ringley says "roughly 1.8 bar for GT and prototypes", that would mean all compounds for all GT1/3/4/E and LMP1/2/3.
There are a lot of overlap and grey area as I mentioned before. I'm yet to figure out if at le mans on a 35c track it's faster to run soft or hard tires.
Testing and variables. There's enough information here for the good starting point you ask for.

Some people don't browse the forum and find out all through blind testing as they progress through career.

Aren't soft tyres after patch 3.0 useless in a race as they really wear out a lot now, just as it should be?

Bealdor
17-01-2018, 14:04
Aren't soft tyres after patch 3.0 useless in a race as they really wear out a lot now, just as it should be?

Really depends on the track and the temperatures.
Soft tires should work well at Le Mans because of those long straights. They're totally useless at Dubai though.

AbeWoz
17-01-2018, 14:05
Aren't soft tyres after patch 3.0 useless in a race as they really wear out a lot now, just as it should be?

they are temperature dependent as they have always been, they were just adjusted to wear more realistically when used outside of the temperature window.

Most tracks sub 25c they should be the tire choice.

Edit: Semi-eel'd

Cristi
17-01-2018, 14:05
Aren't soft tyres after patch 3.0 useless in a race as they really wear out a lot now, just as it should be?

Soft tyres shouldn't wear out more than any other tyre if used correctly. Soft tyres can and should be used in a race when the track is cold (lower than 20-30 degrees C).

rich1e I
17-01-2018, 14:47
they are temperature dependent as they have always been, they were just adjusted to wear more realistically when used outside of the temperature window.

Most tracks sub 25c they should be the tire choice.

Edit: Semi-eel'd

Yep I actually use hard tyres only in GT3s because as far as I know it's the only compound available for IMSA and Blancpain and people online mostly choose optimal conditions. Haven't tested tyre wear for soft tyres yet but I'm really struggling to get some heat in hard tyres at a 12C Daytona track. It's drivable but not really grippy

AbeWoz
17-01-2018, 15:00
Yep I actually use hard tyres only in GT3s because as far as I know it's the only compound available for IMSA and Blancpain and people online mostly choose optimal conditions. Haven't tested tyre wear for soft tyres yet but I'm really struggling to get some heat in hard tyres at a 12C Daytona track. It's drivable but not really grippy

Well Continental and Pirelli may provide teams with a softer compound, but they don't get the option to chose between the 2. The providers only give 1 slick choice during a race weekend, but my guess is that its generally the hards.

RC-5PO
23-01-2018, 18:02
Just realized where I have been going wrong in tire pressure tuning. Actually more like camber tuning for blonde moments. Everyone has told me 5 to 10 degrees maximum temperature difference from inside edge to outer edge. Hence removing camber to even them out. What I didn't realize is the 5 to 10 degree temperature difference is in Celsius but I am tuning in Fahrenheit. So more like a 40 to 50 degree difference in temperatures is acceptable. I have been doing this wrong since PC1. Honestly, I am fairly intelligent. :confused: Or so I thought.
I mention this in hopes someone else has made this oversight and I can help.

Cristi
23-01-2018, 18:29
We should just completely dispense with the imperial system and stick to metric. Also, I'll be in hiding from all the angry Americans that will try to hunt me down.

Schnizz58
23-01-2018, 20:25
We should just completely dispense with the imperial system and stick to metric. Also, I'll be in hiding from all the angry Americans that will try to hunt me down.

I switched over in PC1 because if you use Imperial, some of the values are still metric. So it was more consistent to just always use metric for everything. If any of my fellow countrymen gripe about using metric, tell them to grow a pair.

Interestingly, I'm having the opposite problem in PC2. I have it set to metric but my tire pressures are in PSI.

Cristi
23-01-2018, 20:59
Yeah... Tyre pressures are a weird one... Hopefully something that will be fixed soon.

RC-5PO
23-01-2018, 22:43
OK. So let me see if I have this straight. Situation, current community event Corvette C7r at Daytona road course. My favorite situation by the way. My best time e so far is mid 1:46s which is good enough for 40 something place after about 10 laps. So before I go any further :
According to Casey, for these cars we should be shooting for a hot pressure of approximately 26psi or 1.8 bar.
So I'm running soft tires due to the low track temp. I have the pressure set to about 24psi in the setup screen which is giving me about 30 to 31psi hot after a few laps but the tire temperature is only getting up to about an average of 150 degrees.
So I'm guessing I'm running too much pressure. But if I drop the pressure the temperature situation is even worse.
So my question is am I expected to drop the pressure and ignore the temperatures? Thanks in advance

Schnizz58
23-01-2018, 22:57
So my question is am I expected to drop the pressure and ignore the temperatures?
Yes, that's my take. In a lot of cases, it's hard to get the pressure right AND get the temperatures up. So in those cases, I focus on the pressures and don't worry about the temps.

hkraft300
24-01-2018, 00:15
So I'm guessing I'm running too much pressure. But if I drop the pressure the temperature situation is even worse.
So my question is am I expected to drop the pressure and ignore the temperatures? Thanks in advance

Drop the hot pressure to Casey's recommendations. If the tire temp is that high, switch to hard tires they might hold up better.

RC-5PO
24-01-2018, 01:16
Drop the hot pressure to Casey's recommendations. If the tire temp is that high, switch to hard tires they might hold up better.

The problem is the temperature is too low, not too high. If I drop pressures the temperatures get even lower. Don't forget I'm talking Temps in Fahrenheit. USA ;)

hkraft300
24-01-2018, 02:03
The problem is the temperature is too low, not too high. If I drop pressures the temperatures get even lower. Don't forget I'm talking Temps in Fahrenheit. USA ;)

Then switch to cold tires :)

Don't be afraid to let the temperature move and switch compounds accordingly. If the tire temp peaks below 80℃/170℉, the soft tires are a valid option.

RC-5PO
24-01-2018, 02:27
Then switch to cold tires :)

Don't be afraid to let the temperature move and switch compounds accordingly. If the tire temp peaks below 80℃/170℉, the soft tires are a valid option.

I don't think you read my post. See post #284. I'm using soft tires and having trouble hitting those temperatures.
I think you are spending too much time driving in the Australia sun and not driving in Daytona at night in January :cool:

hkraft300
24-01-2018, 06:08
Soft tires are good at low temperature.
If you are peaking beyond ~80℃/170℉ tire temp, switch to hard tires.
Below peak tire temp of ~80℃/170℉ stay on soft.

Cristi
24-01-2018, 12:15
Not all tyres have to have 80+ degrees C. Soft tyres have to be colder than that, and wet tyres colder still, I think. Get the pressure right and the correct tyre temp will follow.

hkraft300
24-01-2018, 12:43
Not all tyres have to have 80+ degrees C. Soft tyres have to be colder than that, and wet tyres colder still, I think. Get the pressure right and the correct tyre temp will follow.

What I meant was that soft tires work up to ~80℃. That means it works well from stone cold. Hard tires prefer to be above a minimum of ~70℃.

There's a temperature range, not a specific temperature. There's also a pressure range (~1.6-1.9 bar). Stay within the pressure range, choose compound as per conditions (cold for soft, hot for hard, wet for wet).

Sjonnie1989
15-03-2018, 10:44
Been a while and I think I am confident in saying I am in control of my tire management to quite an extend.

However there is still one thing I question in terms of priority, brake temperatures!? Is it really that important to stay above a certain temperature (I recall reading 300C+) or is brake ducts to manage pressures more important (that's how I use it at the moment and never look at brake temps).

So scenario could be Watkins Glen in the AMG GT3 (on longer tracks like Spa, this scenario is even more applicable). It's summer (hot) so I take the hard tires. I set +/- 1.4bar as starting pressure (bit hard, less scrubbing, better temperature (still 115C inner tire temp due to hot track, but they manage well)) and open up the ducts quite a lot to make sure my hot pressures will be 1.8 on all tires during a stint (so far so good). However, my brakes consistently cool down to 250C or less (about or less 250C in front, 200C rear) but I keep thinking that the brakes need to be 300C+ to be most effective. However, I don't really notice any lack of braking power... So is that 300C+ mark really that important? If you stomp the brakes, they heat up easily to 400C+ only to cool of again after release.

TL/DR; Am I going to gain some extra stopping power by keeping temps higher on the brakes (which means I need to lower base tire pressure) and if so what temp is the target temp, or are brake temps/ducts primarily used to manage tire pressure and is temp less important?

AbeWoz
15-03-2018, 10:50
Been a while and I think I am confident in saying I am in control of my tire management to quite an extend.

However there is still one thing I question in terms of priority, brake temperatures!? Is it really that important to stay above a certain temperature (I recall reading 300C+) or is brake ducts to manage pressures more important (that's how I use it at the moment and never look at brake temps).

So scenario could be Watkins Glen in the AMG GT3 (on longer tracks like Spa, this scenario is even more applicable). It's summer (hot) so I take the hard tires. I set +/- 1.4bar as starting pressure (bit hard, less scrubbing, better temperature (still 115C inner tire temp due to hot track, but they manage well)) and open up the ducts quite a lot to make sure my hot pressures will be 1.8 on all tires during a stint (so far so good). However, my brakes consistently cool down to 250C or less (about or less 250C in front, 200C rear) but I keep thinking that the brakes need to be 300C+ to be most effective. However, I don't really notice any lack of braking power... So is that 300C+ mark really that important? If you stomp the brakes, they heat up easily to 400C+ only to cool of again after release.

TL/DR; Am I going to gain some extra stopping power by keeping temps higher on the brakes (which means I need to lower base tire pressure) and if so what temp is the target temp, or are brake temps/ducts primarily used to manage tire pressure and is temp less important?

It's more important to keep them from overheating on cars that have steel brakes (GT3). Carbon brake cars like LMP1 you NEED to keep heat in them in order to work most effectively.

Sjonnie1989
15-03-2018, 11:12
It's more important to keep them from overheating on cars that have steel brakes (GT3). Carbon brake cars like LMP1 you NEED to keep heat in them in order to work most effectively.

Alright, sounds reasonable. I am referring to GT3 and GTE, my favourite kind of cars in the game :).

So all in all, don't bother (too much) with brakes being cold(-ish/-er) and use them to manage tire pressures?

Also, any idea what would be considered overheating in terms of target temps?

AbeWoz
15-03-2018, 11:40
Alright, sounds reasonable. I am referring to GT3 and GTE, my favourite kind of cars in the game :).

So all in all, don't bother (too much) with brakes being cold(-ish/-er) and use them to manage tire pressures?

Also, any idea what would be considered overheating in terms of target temps?

I try to keep them below 600-700c at the end of the largest braking zone

hkraft300
15-03-2018, 12:32
Alright, sounds reasonable. I am referring to GT3 and GTE, my favourite kind of cars in the game :).

So all in all, don't bother (too much) with brakes being cold(-ish/-er) and use them to manage tire pressures?

Also, any idea what would be considered overheating in terms of target temps?

You got it. Use the brakes to control tire pressure.
And this:


I try to keep them below 600-700c at the end of the largest braking zone

You'll notice the brakes will lose their bite >700℃. They become ineffective.

Sjonnie1989
15-03-2018, 13:24
Alright, cool! Thats how I have been using it for the last 2 months, so happy to see it confirmed!

600-700 -> I never get there, so I’m not worried :)

Thanks for the input and help Guys!

Atak Kat
15-03-2018, 14:47
You'll notice the brakes will lose their bite >700℃. They become ineffective.

From my experience, I would say 'less effective'. But, I've found this sometimes to be helpful. I've actually run some of my best times with the brakes cooking up in this range. You can put on full brakes and often they won't lock the tires. It's almost like a sort of ABS system. In some cases I've found that it is better/easier for me to run the brakes really hot, knowing they lose some strength, and I seem to get even better/shorter brake distances as a result.

Of course, there are better and more appropriate ways to achieve that, but I have found that it's not always a disaster having the brake-temps up that high. Especially in qualifying or short races.

The bigger issue I've found is with the tire pressure impact, as mentioned. Running the temps this high, for too long, definitely causes your tire pressures to rise. And this has caused me more problems than the impact to the braking performance.

Sjonnie1989
15-03-2018, 14:56
The bigger issue I've found is with the tire pressure impact, as mentioned. Running the temps this high, for too long, definitely causes your tire pressures to rise. And this has caused me more problems than the impact to the braking performance.

That is what why I never bothered to give it any attention, but it just got me wondering. I value consistency and fast laps in a race much more that I value a very fast TT/Qualifying time, so I am more or less glad to read your conclusion haha

rich1e I
18-03-2018, 13:36
So it appears hard tyres are useless now on a 30C/86F track. Shame because I think it was just right before. Soft tyres only on cold tracks (<20C/68F).

AbeWoz
18-03-2018, 13:43
So it appears hard tyres are useless now on a 30C/86F track. Shame because I think it was just right before. Soft tyres only on cold tracks (<20C/68F).

what track?

rich1e I
18-03-2018, 14:31
what track?

Any track so far. You can wrestle the tyres up to 75C/167F for a short time but it's too cold for hard tyres. I'm talking about GTs. Before the patch hard tyres needed a few laps to get up to optimum temperature (as it should be) of 85-90C/185F but you could feel grip increasing each lap. That's not the case anymore.

hkraft300
18-03-2018, 14:48
Any track so far. You can wrestle the tyres up to 75C/167F for a short time but it's too cold for hard tyres. I'm talking about GTs

Oh 30c Spa you definitely want hard tires in GT3 cars. 911 rears get toasty doing 2:23 laps.
M6 doesn’t like soft tires either.

GTE cars seem to keep tire temps slightly better though.

rich1e I
18-03-2018, 14:53
Oh 30c Spa you definitely want hard tires in GT3 cars. 911 rears get toasty doing 2:23 laps.
M6 doesn’t like soft tires either.

GTE cars seem to keep tire temps slightly better though.

Not sure if I tested at Spa. Will try later on, but I guess it'll be the same. I just wanted to draw the attention on this because something definitely changed and it wasn't listed in the patch notes.

AbeWoz
18-03-2018, 14:54
GTE tires have a greater temperature overlap between hards and softs.

rich1e I
18-03-2018, 15:18
GTE cars seem to keep tire temps slightly better though.

GTEs are by far my favorite GTs, but thanks for the indirect confirmation of the 'hard tyres change' ;)

Edit: Just tested at Spa, 29C/84F track temp, hard tyres. Struggling to get tyres to optimum temps. For your average 5 laps race soft tyres might be totally fine :/

PostBox981
18-03-2018, 20:27
Today I set a new record for the BMW M3 Group A on Hockenheim Classic in TT session. On wet tyres.

These tyres have way more grip than slicks at least in medium temps. Not sure what the old record was worth but I felt like I was doing quite okay. In free practice before I was 2.5 secs faster right away when I changed from slicks to wet. On an early spring day these tyres are really working well, also tyre wear seems to be okay. I am thinking about using them for my next league race, which will be an hour with two dry and one random weather slots.

AbeWoz
18-03-2018, 20:55
GTEs are by far my favorite GTs, but thanks for the indirect confirmation of the 'hard tyres change' ;)

Edit: Just tested at Spa, 29C/84F track temp, hard tyres. Struggling to get tyres to optimum temps. For your average 5 laps race soft tyres might be totally fine :/

I did a GT3 race at Spa the other night. Short 5/6 laps and temps were in the 30's C and ran softs on the M6.

rich1e I
18-03-2018, 22:39
I did a GT3 race at Spa the other night. Short 5/6 laps and temps were in the 30's C and ran softs on the M6.

Yep, softs seem to be the way to go. Such a shame. The question is now, how much do they wear out if you go double the distance, 10/12 laps? In the end I probably have to choose between not having grip with cold hard tyres and not having grip with overheated and worn out soft tyres, at least at Spa. I haven't used them much, so no idea, I only used them in really cold conditions or qualifying. I remember either Casey or Jussi once said that originally they didn't want to add softs.
I'm going to have a look at 'SMS posts' if I can find anything about tyre compounds after the latest patch.

wesker6664
19-03-2018, 09:47
So it appears hard tyres are useless now on a 30C/86F track. Shame because I think it was just right before. Soft tyres only on cold tracks (<20C/68F).
That might be a combination of driving style and car used, personally on a GT3 car i can only use hard tyres above 20C. It just takes more work to get heat into the tyres, but for me it's still better than the softs at those temperatures !

ironik
19-03-2018, 09:50
Yeah, same here.
With a track temp around the 20C mark, I can only do one or two laps on softs. After that, my tyres are cooked and I understeer through every corners ^^.

NYLL
19-03-2018, 10:40
hi im newbie here, the reference here -> Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps <- means cold tyre or after heat up?

Bealdor
19-03-2018, 10:46
hi im newbie here, the reference here -> Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps <- means cold tyre or after heat up?

Hot pressures.
Aim for 0.4-0.5 BAR lower cold pressures as a start.

klw7890
19-03-2018, 12:30
So are pressures something you want to tune for, before the temperatures? I've had several situations (mostly in the cold) where I could get good pressure (but cold temperatures) or good temperatures (with low pressures). Any insight? I've also noted that maintaining good brake temperatures can help pressure.

AbeWoz
19-03-2018, 12:44
So are pressures something you want to tune for, before the temperatures? I've had several situations (mostly in the cold) where I could get good pressure (but cold temperatures) or good temperatures (with low pressures). Any insight? I've also noted that maintaining good brake temperatures can help pressure.

pressures ensure you have the most effective contact patch between the tire and track surface, temps will help with grip levels.

you may have 'prefect' temps, but if your pressures are too high or too low, you won't have proper contact with the track.

Yes, brake temps help with tire pressure. As brake heat dissipates into the rim and core of the tire.

rich1e I
19-03-2018, 12:49
That might be a combination of driving style and car used, personally on a GT3 car i can only use hard tyres above 20C. It just takes more work to get heat into the tyres, but for me it's still better than the softs at those temperatures !


Yeah, same here.
With a track temp around the 20C mark, I can only do one or two laps on softs. After that, my tyres are cooked and I understeer through every corners ^^.

Really? I'm on console and I can assure you, the driving style is completely irrelevant on a 20C cold track. I can drive 10 laps and the (hard) tyres won't heat up anywhere near the 'grip window'. On a 30C track it's obviously a bit better but not enough in terms of grip. This only after the latest patch. Now, I know PC and consoles are not 100% on par. Maybe something has changed for consoles.

cpcdem
19-03-2018, 15:09
Really? I'm on console and I can assure you, the driving style is completely irrelevant on a 20C cold track. I can drive 10 laps and the (hard) tyres won't heat up anywhere near the 'grip window'. On a 30C track it's obviously a bit better but not enough in terms of grip. This only after the latest patch. Now, I know PC and consoles are not 100% on par. Maybe something has changed for consoles.

I m on PC and I am noticing exactly the same thing as you.

Atak Kat
19-03-2018, 15:26
I notice the same. I thought the patch only made changes in the soft tires, but I can not achieve the times I used to, on hards, in similar conditions. When the temps are really high (both track and air) it might be different but so far I haven't had many races like that.

I will say though, that on softs now, I can do much better times that I used to on hard tires. But on hards, I'm worse.

I'm almost always using softs now for races 10 laps and less.

hkraft300
19-03-2018, 16:06
Some of you may be really smooth and fast, which will keep temps moderate.

Some of you may be a bit more rough and still fast, which will make your temps a little hotter.

Some of you may tune the cars slightly different and that will affect temps too.

Hard to compare, without controlling variables.

Personally I’m not very fast but 30c track I’ll cook GT3 tires, the rears first (>95c) and it’ll oversteer everywhere. So i have to switch to hard tires. Depending on how I’ve tuned it, I might have too cold front tires (80c) for hard tires, which is the problem I had with soft tires at Spa in the 911. Fronts gripped well but reads cooked it. Further tuning required.

Some of you cook the fronts first and understeer.

AbeWoz
19-03-2018, 16:11
Some of you may be really smooth and fast, which will keep temps moderate.

Some of you may be a bit more rough and still fast, which will make your temps a little hotter.

Some of you may tune the cars slightly different and that will affect temps too.

Hard to compare, without controlling variables.

Personally I’m not very fast but 30c track I’ll cook GT3 tires, the rears first (>95c) and it’ll oversteer everywhere. So i have to switch to hard tires. Depending on how I’ve tuned it, I might have too cold front tires (80c) for hard tires, which is the problem I had with soft tires at Spa in the 911. Fronts gripped well but reads cooked it. Further tuning required.

Some of you cook the fronts first and understeer.

agreed. I've also started running mis-matched tire setups on a lot of tracks too. Red Bull Ring is Mostly right hand turns, so I might run Hards on the left because they take more abuse and softs on the right.
Silverstone and Barcelona cook the left-front, so hard LF to take the higher temps might be worth it.

klw7890
19-03-2018, 16:24
pressures ensure you have the most effective contact patch between the tire and track surface, temps will help with grip levels.

you may have 'prefect' temps, but if your pressures are too high or too low, you won't have proper contact with the track.

Yes, brake temps help with tire pressure. As brake heat dissipates into the rim and core of the tire.

Thank you! Been wondering this for a while.

rich1e I
19-03-2018, 18:45
It's all well and good but something has changed after the latest patch and I think it's safe to say it's fact. You can keep your laptimes with a 25C track on hard tyres but temps and pressures are not where they used to be anymore. Before you did a few laps and pressures and temps were right there in the optimum range. This is not the case anymore. I need to test more to decide but I think I still would choose hards though.

Zeratall
20-03-2018, 05:14
I have noticed on cool days sometimes its just hard to get the temps up, you can always add in toe and camber for a 'scrubbing" effect, granted their is a limit, you dont want you temperature gradiant (inside to outside) to large. If you not getting the heat, you need more load Aero DF is always an option if you have more available to you.

ironik
20-03-2018, 09:30
Really? I'm on console and I can assure you, the driving style is completely irrelevant on a 20C cold track. I can drive 10 laps and the (hard) tyres won't heat up anywhere near the 'grip window'. On a 30C track it's obviously a bit better but not enough in terms of grip. This only after the latest patch. Now, I know PC and consoles are not 100% on par. Maybe something has changed for consoles.


Some of you may be really smooth and fast, which will keep temps moderate.

Some of you may be a bit more rough and still fast, which will make your temps a little hotter.

Some of you may tune the cars slightly different and that will affect temps too.

Hard to compare, without controlling variables.

Personally I’m not very fast but 30c track I’ll cook GT3 tires, the rears first (>95c) and it’ll oversteer everywhere. So i have to switch to hard tires. Depending on how I’ve tuned it, I might have too cold front tires (80c) for hard tires, which is the problem I had with soft tires at Spa in the 911. Fronts gripped well but reads cooked it. Further tuning required.

Some of you cook the fronts first and understeer.

I'm not sure it's only related to being rough, it's also related to driving near the grip limit.
If you drive near the grip limit, you'll have a bit of slip in almost every corner and during the braking, hence why your tyres will heat more.

As an example, here is my qualification lap around COTA, in mid track temps (~18-20C) and soft tyres.
I did an outlap and a flying lap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqT1SlgPyYM

Here are the temps of my soft tyres during a test session:

https://s10.postimg.org/43ymungax/Capture.png (https://postimg.org/image/h8477c8cl/)

I tested with Hard tyres too and it took me something like 3 or 4 laps to get the hards in temp. After that the hard were better than softs because the softs were already overheating in sector 3 of my flying lap.

EDIT: As far as I know, there is no difference, physics wise, between consoles and PC. I could be wrong though.

rich1e I
20-03-2018, 14:01
Ironik, ofc we have to differentiate. I was mainly talking about Spa. On other tyre demanding circuits like COTA, Catalunya or Algarve hards heat up better to optimum temps range and are definitely the better choice. I can only repeat myself. I just wanted to point out that something has changed since the latest patch and obviously other PC users noticed that too. You 'sound' like you didn't notice any change. I'm not saying you can't drive with hard tyres anymore but they're not heating up like they did before the patch. I expect my tyres to get up to optimum pressures and temps after a few laps. This was possible even without having to drive on the limit but it's not the case anymore.
Regarding the difference between consoles and PC many people say PC is faster somehow.

ironik
20-03-2018, 14:27
Ironik, ofc we have to differentiate. I was mainly talking about Spa. On other tyre demanding circuits like COTA, Catalunya or Algarve hards heat up better to optimum temps range and are definitely the better choice. I can only repeat myself. I just wanted to point out that something has changed since the latest patch and obviously other PC users noticed that too. You 'sound' like you didn't notice any change. I'm not saying you can't drive with hard tyres anymore but they're not heating up like they did before the patch. I expect my tyres to get up to optimum pressures and temps after a few laps. This was possible even without having to drive on the limit but it's not the case anymore.
Regarding the difference between consoles and PC many people say PC is faster somehow.

Spa is also quite heavy on the tyres too IMO, with its very long and fast turns. The difference is that it has quite a lot of long straights ^^
In which conditions did you make your test ? Which car and what laptimes are you doing ?

The differences I noticed since the last patch is that the softs now work much better when cold. Over 80C they start to struggle a bit.

Regarding the laptimes differences between PC and consoles... Well... in the AOR leagues, at least, laptimes seem to be very similar.
Maybe all the PS4 and Xbox players are much quicker than PC drivers, I don't know but I doubt it.

hkraft300
20-03-2018, 14:34
I'm not sure it's only related to being rough, it's also related to driving near the grip limit.
If you drive near the grip limit, you'll have a bit of slip in almost every corner and during the braking, hence why your tyres will heat more.


Makes sense. I’m not usually that fast so I get away with soft tires more often :)



EDIT: As far as I know, there is no difference, physics wise, between consoles and PC. I could be wrong though.

PS4 and pc seem close enough it makes no difference in the way the tires are behaving.

Patch notes, Jussi’s posts and forum feedback is all correlating.

rich1e I
20-03-2018, 14:55
Spa is also quite heavy on the tyres too IMO, with its very long and fast turns. The difference is that it has quite a lot of long straights ^^
In which conditions did you make your test ? Which car and what laptimes are you doing ?

The differences I noticed since the last patch is that the softs now work much better when cold. Over 80C they start to struggle a bit.

Regarding the laptimes differences between PC and consoles... Well... in the AOR leagues, at least, laptimes seem to be very similar.
Maybe all the PS4 and Xbox players are much quicker than PC drivers, I don't know but I doubt it.

I don't know either but I've heard this from many people that PC is faster, no idea in what regard though. I also remember a F4H member transitioning from console to PC saying that he's faster on PC.
I've tested quite a few cars now at Spa. Conditions are: spring, April 15th at around 2pm, 24C track temps. I'm doing 2:19s at Spa but you shouldn't be an alien to get your tyres where they should be.
Tried the Audi yesterday for the first time at Spa as I only used to use turbo charged cars on high altitude tracks for known reasons. So I was setting the car up and did a couple of laps.
Honestly, this should be enough on a 24C track. Why it's changed now, no idea.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/rich1e%20I/video/46262519

Schnizz58
20-03-2018, 14:57
EDIT: As far as I know, there is no difference, physics wise, between consoles and PC. I could be wrong though.


PS4 and pc seem close enough it makes no difference in the way the tires are behaving.

Patch notes, Jussis posts and forum feedback is all correlating.
I have no doubt that the source code is the same or very, very close between the different platforms (in terms of physics, tire model, etc.). However with different hardware, it's possible that the execution of that code will differ between the platforms. The difference in grip that I get when running solo and with a full grid makes me wonder if that might be the case. I don't hear the PC folks complaining about that but it definitely occurs on the XBOX.

AbeWoz
20-03-2018, 15:14
I have no doubt that the source code is the same or very, very close between the different platforms (in terms of physics, tire model, etc.). However with different hardware, it's possible that the execution of that code will differ between the platforms. The difference in grip that I get when running solo and with a full grid makes me wonder if that might be the case. I don't hear the PC folks complaining about that but it definitely occurs on the XBOX.

its a CPU power limitation on the Xbox that causes this im pretty sure.

i think a PC user *might* experience this if they had a underpowered, or at the limit, CPU

Schnizz58
20-03-2018, 15:35
its a CPU power limitation on the Xbox that causes this im pretty sure.

i think a PC user *might* experience this if they had a underpowered, or at the limit, CPU

Yeah if it's a real thing (and I think it is) it's a bandwidth limitation on the Xbox.

ironik
20-03-2018, 15:37
I don't know either but I've heard this from many people that PC is faster, no idea in what regard though. I also remember a F4H member transitioning from console to PC saying that he's faster on PC.
I've tested quite a few cars now at Spa. Conditions are: spring, April 15th at around 2pm, 24C track temps. I'm doing 2:19s at Spa but you shouldn't be an alien to get your tyres where they should be.
Tried the Audi yesterday for the first time at Spa as I only used to use turbo charged cars on high altitude tracks for known reasons. So I was setting the car up and did a couple of laps.
Honestly, this should be enough on a 24C track. Why it's changed now, no idea.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/rich1e%20I/video/46262519

Yeah... Well... You know it could be due to so many things... Better rig, better screen, better whatever and even placebo effect.
It's really difficult to be sure of this. One should test both in the same exact conditions, and averaging his laptimes from some testing sessions. (as liveTrack could be interfering too)

Regarding your tyres temp, yeah it seems quite low.
Your brakes are dead cold too by the way ;)

EDIT:
Oh yeah, with AI and heavy conditions, it could be a problem. The physics tick rate is adaptive, so maybe, sometimes it's dropping a bit.
I'm not sure it's a problem on xbox1x or ps4pro though.

rich1e I
20-03-2018, 15:46
Regarding your tyres temp, yeah it seems quite low.
Your brakes are dead cold too by the way ;)

.

I know, I was just setting the car up but I believe it was the tremendous cold from my tyres that went into my brakes :p

rich1e I
20-03-2018, 15:53
@ironik
Isn't Oscaro the team formerly known as SDL?

ironik
20-03-2018, 16:39
@ironik
Isn't Oscaro the team formerly known as SDL?

Yes, this is it :)

Jurld
22-03-2018, 01:35
Was there ever an answer about optimum pressures and temperature for wet tires vs slick or whatever?

Bealdor
22-03-2018, 06:48
Was there ever an answer about optimum pressures and temperature for wet tires vs slick or whatever?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400320&viewfull=1#post1400320

Jurld
22-03-2018, 12:46
Thanks very much, I missed this somehow.

NYLL
26-03-2018, 04:30
im confusing on tyre temps and pressure now...

get to 115c with hard tyre in catalunya(track temp 42c) around 3 or 4 laps(just couple laps around 1'45), is it normal? my setup was 1.42bar Front and 1.38bar Rear

my rear tyre cooked up so easy, it is driving me crazy, and i have to drive it slowly or else the car oversteer everywhere.....

wesker6664
26-03-2018, 07:19
im confusing on tyre temps and pressure now...

get to 115c with hard tyre in catalunya(track temp 42c) around 3 or 4 laps(just couple laps around 1'45), is it normal? my setup was 1.42bar Front and 1.38bar Rear

my rear tyre cooked up so easy, it is driving me crazy, and i have to drive it slowly or else the car oversteer everywhere.....
Which car is it ? If it's GT3, some are more prone to overheat rear tyres, like the Porsche and the Lambo... solutions to this could be in the driving itself (slow down a bit, avoid locking during breaking / spinning tyres at corner exit) or try a setup more aero based.

Sessionerror
27-03-2018, 10:24
Maybe this is one for Casey: We've been wondering about the actual target tire pressure for RX cars, since this seems to be the only motorsport/car type that's missing in the target pressure list? (if it is possible to achieve a constant pressure at all :D )


Edit: Just found those documents about Cooper RX tires - don't know if the devs are already aware of that kind of data (I don't understand anything about Pacejka Lateral Coefficients, Spring Rates and Force Moments), but this is certainly interesting for the right kind of people :D

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/sites/default/files/World%20RallyX%20Pacejka%20Lateral%20Coefficients.xlsx
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/sites/default/files/WRX%20Dynamic%20Spring%20Rate%20Data%20-%208305.xls
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/sites/default/files/WRX%20Dynamic%20Spring%20Rate%20Data%20-%208325.xls
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/sites/default/files/WRX%20Force%20Moment%20Data%202017.xls
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/sites/default/files/WRX%20Wet%20Static%20Spring%20Rate%20Data.xlsx

To come back to the actual topic, those tests were done with pressures of 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 bar, so is this actually the target area we should be aiming for?

maxx69
07-04-2018, 14:59
Can someone help me with ideal tyre pressures and brake temps in the formula Renault ....can't seem to get any information

hkraft300
07-04-2018, 21:46
Project CARS 2 Tyre Temps (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps)

Formula cars.

ShneebnaMRR108
07-04-2018, 22:00
That crap is outdated and useless!

hkraft300
07-04-2018, 22:04
That crap is outdated and useless!

Oh really
Care to enlighten us? :rolleyes:

ShneebnaMRR108
08-04-2018, 04:09
Not really. After the next patch drops it'll all be changed anyway. That is if you could even get a lobby started.

hkraft300
08-04-2018, 13:57
Not really. After the next patch drops it'll all be changed anyway. That is if you could even get a lobby started.

:applause:

So anyway, 1.7-1.8 bar is still the fastest way round a track in GT cars, as of patch 4.
That matches the link above.
So I’d follow the formula car pressure guide there.

maxx69
08-04-2018, 15:01
Cool thanks fellas , sort of guessed 1.6-7 front and 1.4-5 rear so wasn't a million miles away .
Formula Renault is an epic drive by the way

MaXyM
08-04-2018, 16:03
I was sure 1.8 is what we should aim for. isn't it?

Bealdor
08-04-2018, 16:53
I was sure 1.8 is what we should aim for. isn't it?

Not for Formula cars.

MaXyM
08-04-2018, 17:05
I responded to post #348 in which GT tires are mentioned. Since 1.7 is far away from 1.8 I'm trying to hit the latter.
But I agree my previous response might not be as clear as it could.

Bealdor
08-04-2018, 17:08
Ah okay. I thought you meant maxx's response about the Formula Renault.

maTech
16-04-2018, 07:21
I hope somebody can help me...I am not good at creating setups till now (want to learn it) but everytime I drive a GT3 car the left rear tire is getting hot very fast (soft tires and sms loose setup) all other tires are looking good. I remember tire pressure on gt cars ~1,8 bar is it right? I tried it but it doesn't change anything. Then I thought I would drive too fast on corners but I was so slow, that I had to reduce ai strength to 81% but the result was the same, so perhaps this can't be the problem? What else can I do? Remember it's on soft tires and the left rear tire only. I drive with a t300 wheel on ps4 pro, patch 5. Thank you!

Sankyo
16-04-2018, 08:26
I hope somebody can help me...I am not good at creating setups till now (want to learn it) but everytime I drive a GT3 car the left rear tire is getting hot very fast (soft tires and sms loose setup) all other tires are looking good. I remember tire pressure on gt cars ~1,8 bar is it right? I tried it but it doesn't change anything. Then I thought I would drive too fast on corners but I was so slow, that I had to reduce ai strength to 81% but the result was the same, so perhaps this can't be the problem? What else can I do? Remember it's on soft tires and the left rear tire only. I drive with a t300 wheel on ps4 pro, patch 5. Thank you!
What tracks did you notice this on?

hkraft300
16-04-2018, 08:40
That's 1.8 bar when hot, after a few laps on track. Not in the setup screen (you're looking at closer 1.4 bar cold).
Accel diff too loose maybe, spinning the inside rear? Depending on track of course. Does your right rear get hot with the same tune at imola or Laguna seca, maybe?

Bealdor
16-04-2018, 08:41
I hope somebody can help me...I am not good at creating setups till now (want to learn it) but everytime I drive a GT3 car the left rear tire is getting hot very fast (soft tires and sms loose setup) all other tires are looking good. I remember tire pressure on gt cars ~1,8 bar is it right? I tried it but it doesn't change anything. Then I thought I would drive too fast on corners but I was so slow, that I had to reduce ai strength to 81% but the result was the same, so perhaps this can't be the problem? What else can I do? Remember it's on soft tires and the left rear tire only. I drive with a t300 wheel on ps4 pro, patch 5. Thank you!

Are you running with TC off maybe?

Atak Kat
16-04-2018, 08:55
I hope somebody can help me...I am not good at creating setups till now (want to learn it) but everytime I drive a GT3 car the left rear tire is getting hot very fast (soft tires and sms loose setup) all other tires are looking good. I remember tire pressure on gt cars ~1,8 bar is it right? I tried it but it doesn't change anything. Then I thought I would drive too fast on corners but I was so slow, that I had to reduce ai strength to 81% but the result was the same, so perhaps this can't be the problem? What else can I do? Remember it's on soft tires and the left rear tire only. I drive with a t300 wheel on ps4 pro, patch 5. Thank you!

This can be quite dependent on the track, your settings, and the way you drive.
- If it's Monza, or another track that is mainly right hand turns, it's common for the left rear to show higher temps due to the strong acceleration out of corners, or the high speed right-handers putting a lot of pressure on the left rear when accelerating.
- If you are racing against AI at higher than 81%, I think you are probably pretty fast already, and assume that you have figured out how/when to accelerate early out of the corners to get the best time on the longer straights.
- If you are running with traction control allowing slip in the rears (so 12-15%?), then likely you are accelerating hard out of the turns, getting a bit of oversteer and the left rear is losing traction under the hard acceleration, and it's overheating the left-rear over the course of the race.

BTW, I have the same issue when I'm really pushing out of the corners at Monza or other tracks that are mainly right hand turns with high-speed corners. It's just generally a challenge to manage that left-rear, especially.
- you can try to reduce the traction control slip a bit, but that probably won't completely solve it.
- you probably need to manage your acceleration out of the corners a bit. Trying to still get the acceleration, but without inducing too much rear tire slip.
- it can be okay to drive like a madman for about 3 or 4 laps, but then after that you will have to pay-the-piper and actually you risk to eventually go into a spin in the corners because you've cooked the rears.

That's my experience anyway. Maybe I also have something to learn.

maTech
16-04-2018, 10:09
At first thank you all for your responses, I appreciate it. I can't say it's a special track but most time on tracks with loooong right turns. For example on carsousel at road america or exit of porsche curves at le mans. I drive with tc on. How I accelerate out of corners is something I have to watch for sure. What can I do against too much oversteering? Reaching 1.8 bar and the optimal tire temperature with the left rear tire is very tricky for me. I noticed that all other tires cool off very fast but left rear tire stays at >90C (194F) and goes up to 110C (230F). The right rear tire likes me and don't want to get that hot :D Perhaps I should read some guides and learn some basics in creating setups.

rich1e I
16-04-2018, 11:32
Maybe track temps are too high. Hard tyres might be the way to go.

Atak Kat
16-04-2018, 11:54
At first thank you all for your responses, I appreciate it. I can't say it's a special track but most time on tracks with loooong right turns. For example on carsousel at road america or exit of porsche curves at le mans. I drive with tc on. How I accelerate out of corners is something I have to watch for sure. What can I do against too much oversteering? Reaching 1.8 bar and the optimal tire temperature with the left rear tire is very tricky for me. I noticed that all other tires cool off very fast but left rear tire stays at >90C (194F) and goes up to 110C (230F). The right rear tire likes me and don't want to get that hot :D Perhaps I should read some guides and learn some basics in creating setups.

I think that's the nature of a simulator. And, to be honest, it's one of the things I appreciate about PC2. If your 100% on the limit every corner, it won't last. I don't think it would in a real car either.

It might be that there are ways to fine-tune the setup to reduce the issue. Tough to say.
Personally I have tried to put the hard tire on the left-rear (only), but I didn't get much success (maybe more testing needed though).

Whatever the solution, it seems that there are other guys that find a way to deal with it. When you're in an online race and they are banging out qualifying lap times over-and-over, well, they've figured out something I haven't. Maybe in their driving style, maybe setup, I don't know. Maybe one of them will give us a hint here in the forums one day.

senna94f1
28-05-2018, 22:22
I have created this from Casey's previous tyre info post, I built it into my spreadsheet. Hope it helps

243217

How about putting in the gt1 class,

The merc in default is around 21psi to 23psi but it felt like I was driving on ice ,

So I look on the chart above and put tyre pressures up to 31psi and that's a huge difference in pressures ,but it's made a huge amount of diffence , the Mercedes gt1 does not slide or feel like it's driving on ice,

To make it faster lap times I then played around with downforce ,which works,

The thing I don't understand is I would never in a million years put the tyre pressures up by the huge amount,

The super touring class in Jimmyb post has pressures at 31 psi all round ,