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rpstar
13-10-2017, 17:16
Ok, still new to tuning. I was told for Pcars 1 that best to tune tires somewhere in 160 F to 220 F range for temp (depending on car) and match all 4 tires by adjusting pressure. Also try to get temp even across the tire as much as possible. Anyways, that does not seem to apply for Pcars 2 from what I can tell.

First, i assume solid green is the good range for tire temp? Yellow green would be starting to get too hot? See the attached pic for the Clio. I have solid green on bottom but temps (in Farenheit) are still far below anything like the range I mentioned above. Is this really what real life temps would be on this car? The top tires are looking yellow and still below the range above.

AbeWoz
13-10-2017, 17:25
Optimum temperature ranges will also very from compound to compound. So wet tires will not like the same temps as dry tires. GT3 slicks will be different than GT4 slicks.

And you want temps semi-consistent across the tire where its under its highest load (i.e. cornering)

Pretty much take any PC1 info and throw it out the window since everything has been reworked, and i think the 'yellow-green' is the goal color, at least that's what my GT3 tires are when in the 'optimum' range around 90C

SGETI
13-10-2017, 17:59
Have a look at this site and disc. Charts and ranges provided.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

rpstar
13-10-2017, 21:56
That was an excellent link. Much appreciated.

David Slute
14-10-2017, 01:15
That link just completely changed the entire feel of this game......AMAZING, THANK YOU!!!!
I had no idea the tire model in this game was that sophisticated and detailed. Use to be one one of those that thought the ffb was weak, physics felt mushy but really it was all due to my tires not being up to temp.
As the tire temp and psi started raising the tire detail and ffb increased and once they were around 32psi I was smiling from ear to ear for about 2hrs just driving lap after lap.

Cheers
David

jimmyb_84
14-10-2017, 11:55
Glad someone started this thread I've been testing tyres mainly in GTE/GT3 and found the compound and pressures are set by ambient/track temps rather than circuit type (as in PC1).

The link above seems to fill in the gaps of my understanding and it now all makes sense. Is there a list of tyre types (across different classes)? I feel more testing coming up.

Need to test wet/snow/rallycross tyres too! This game is so in-depth it's actually redicous.

As a side note, you can tell Jussi was involved the basic setups I've found to be quite good with a few minor changes for preference.

I feel a spreadsheet coming on.........

RomKnight
14-10-2017, 14:55
The spreadsheets already exist @jimmyb_84 ;)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54023-Project-CARS-2-Suspension-Calculator-v0-9

jimmyb_84
14-10-2017, 15:22
The spreadsheets already exist @jimmyb_84 ;)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54023-Project-CARS-2-Suspension-Calculator-v0-9

I'm after something that sorts my pressures out I'm not able to look at Jussi's witchcraft at the moment but will later

jimmyb_84
15-10-2017, 21:45
Been doing some tyre testing all track/ambient temps in fahrenheit and tyre pressure in Bar and tyre temps in centigrade (i know can't decide which metric to use)

242942

Any way I noticed while testing that hard tyres don't mind being above 32 PSI/ 2.2 Bar I even managed my fastest lap at long beach while rears were at 2.6 Bar same at Dubai in high temps managed one of my fastest laps, once I got the tyre up to pressure/temp.

I also recommend trying the Long Beach Soft in winter combo It was brilliant.

I'll do Bathurst next with winter/summer combo keeping everything the same sunny/dry/midday start and readings after 5 laps. An amount of fine tuning and guess work also required to get everything spot on.

Marlborofranz
16-10-2017, 11:20
I was checking this thread and the thread mentioned in one of the posts, but still need someone to shed some light on this, please.

AFAIK I am used to setting the camber in a way that the inner tire temperature is between 0 and 5 Celsius hotter than the outside temperature of the tyre. (After running a few laps)
Once this is done, checking the temperature of the middle of the tire. It should be between the inner and outer temperature. For example: Inner temperature: 85, outer temperature: 82 --> Middle temperature should read 83,5. If it higher than 83,5, then there is too much preassure in the tyre, making it round like a balloon, thus a not so optimal contact patch, grip and tyre wear. If the middle temperature is below 83,5, then it is underinflated, because the flanks of the tyres are stiffer, hence again a bad contact patch, grip and wear.

Following the procedure above we should actually somehow come to the preassure that is recommended by the manufacturer, or not? Because you have the most grip when you have a proper contact patch and perfect tyre temperature. If not, is it more important to come to the exact preassure, or is it more important to follow the procedure above? Or a balance? I'm confused....

Because as of now I would adjust the camber and the tyre preassure according to the procedure above, in order to get a perfect contact patch. And tweak suspension in order to gain more heat if necessary, while maintaining the optimal contact patch...

jimmyb_84
16-10-2017, 12:00
I think it'll be an element of both as I discovered if you have cold/under or over inflated tyres you just have no grip at all however switch the tyre on and the difference is 3/4 second gained per lap.

I would get the right tyre compound/Pressure once happy follow your process for fine tuning for the extra tenths

LukeC1991
16-10-2017, 19:58
Would I be correct in saying that the default tyre pressures are always too low? You can never get to 32psi with the defaults, even in hot conditions.

Marlborofranz
16-10-2017, 20:58
Got the same feeling...

A nice gimmick would be if you could set tyre preassures for pit stops. Just had a quick 25 minutes race on le mans through the night and on day the preassure was fine, but at night of course it gets colder. I assume that in real life of course the teams will adjust the preassure to be correct during the cold night. But in project cars there is currently no option to change preassures depending on the daytime, means you always have to compromise between day beeing bit too overinflated or night being a bit underinflated.

LukeC1991
16-10-2017, 21:03
Got the same feeling...

A nice gimmick would be if you could set tyre preassures for pit stops. Just had a quick 25 minutes race on le mans through the night and on day the preassure was fine, but at night of course it gets colder. I assume that in real life of course the teams will adjust the preassure to be correct during the cold night. But in project cars there is currently no option to change preassures depending on the daytime, means you always have to compromise between day beeing bit too overinflated or night being a bit underinflated.

You can set tyre pressures in your pit stop strategy. Make multiple strategies with different pressures before the race if you plan on putting at night.

Marlborofranz
16-10-2017, 21:34
You can set tyre pressures in your pit stop strategy. Make multiple strategies with different pressures before the race if you plan on putting at night.

Oh, didn't know this one. Gonna give it a try tomorrow!

morpwr
17-10-2017, 11:01
It does seem to work well. But I think with the fact its modeled so well its going to cause a lot of problems for some. You HAVE to brake temperature into account and adjust those also to get good temps out of the tires. Really isn't a downside to that because the brakes will work better but throws another twist into adjusting tire pressures. The one thing I would like to see is a target pressure for all the tire groups from sms. This would save a lot of time and grief for some. A real race team would know what they are looking for pressure wise. In our case right now its a guess for most of them if we knew what pressure to target you could spend a lot less time testing. I didn't get to try it yet but if the slicks are following real life settings are road tires going to be about 36lbs as a starting point?

Tepp
17-10-2017, 15:00
The one thing I would like to see is a target pressure for all the tire groups from sms. This would save a lot of time and grief for some. A real race team would know what they are looking for pressure wise. In our case right now its a guess for most of them if we knew what pressure to target you could spend a lot less time testing.

+100500

jimmyb_84
17-10-2017, 16:39
That is exactly the kind of info I was after will compare my current data to that info and do some more testing, last question do the same pressures apply for wet tyres?

Roger Prynne
17-10-2017, 16:49
And some guys say that the Devs don't care and never come on the forums :rolleyes:

Casey Ringley
17-10-2017, 17:17
That is exactly the kind of info I was after will compare my current data to that info and do some more testing, last question do the same pressures apply for wet tyres?

Yes pretty much. Maybe a bit lower in the wet as softer suspension is always better in low grip conditions, but the same general target zone on each.

LPlates
17-10-2017, 17:27
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

Casey, I've been toying around with this since you posted it as I have been having grip issues with F:Renault3.5 at RedbullGP.

If you have a moment spare, could you look at these?
I've compared running slicks and wets to show how little pace I can get out of the tyres. The psi's are right in your recommended zone. The AI are almost 4 secs quicker in wets and I can barely put together a clean lap in the slicks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPY9w7RZfMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGaZk-xAr10

These are both on Stable default setup with tweaks to tyre pressure only.

Also would you expect wets to perform this well on a totally dry track?

Any and all advice appreciated.

rich1e I
17-10-2017, 17:33
So we don't need those Pirelli numbers that say modern GTs 32psi or 2.2 bar?

LukeC1991
17-10-2017, 17:48
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

Can someone tell me if these are starting pressures or hot tyre pressures?

LPlates
17-10-2017, 17:51
Can someone tell me if these are starting pressures or hot tyre pressures?

I took them to be optimal temperatures. If so then you would need to start on lower temperatures in setup.

morpwr
17-10-2017, 18:00
I took them to be optimal temperatures. If so then you would need to start on lower temperatures in setup.

Looking at the gt numbers I would have to say hot because just over those numbers he posted it showed to be slightly over inflated when I tested last night. Pretty much 2 and above was showing the middle of the tire hotter.

morpwr
17-10-2017, 18:13
Casey, I've been toying around with this since you posted it as I have been having grip issues with F:Renault3.5 at RedbullGP.

If you have a moment spare, could you look at these?
I've compared running slicks and wets to show how little pace I can get out of the tyres. The psi's are right in your recommended zone. The AI are almost 4 secs quicker in wets and I can barely put together a clean lap in the slicks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPY9w7RZfMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGaZk-xAr10

These are both on Stable default setup with tweaks to tyre pressure only.

Also would you expect wets to perform this well on a totally dry track?

Any and all advice appreciated.


I'm no expert but looking at the tire temps id guess you need to go faster/drive more aggressively to get the tires hot. I know make no sense. Youre already sliding so go faster? Yes I have the same problem with downforce cars. Your brain says slow down but you really need to go faster to take advantage of the downforce. If the tire temps come up you may need to readjust the pressure some.

LPlates
17-10-2017, 18:20
@morpwr - appreciate the suggestion and I have tried to push as hard as I can, I've even run like this for 10 laps but the tyres never get any warmer than what is shown here.

So are you saying that the tyres are under temperature in my video above? What would you expect slicks to be on the F:Renault?

The car ran absolutely lovely at Algarve with the same setup so I might run a few laps again there and see what temp gets into the tyres.

AbeWoz
17-10-2017, 18:33
It will vary track to track also. So if (just an example) 1.6bar cold works great at Algarve, it won't necessarily work at Silverstone. Different tracks have different load corners, as well as the layouts will make a difference. A track with a high amount of straights or distance between corners will heat tires differently than a very tight/technical course.

Also, track temp (obviously) plays a huge role.

In response to your video, i would say your pressures are too high. Lower pressures will build up more heat in the tires, but will take longer to get there.
At 5:23 in your first video, you're at 1.84/1.73 but only ~150F ish (65C).

Lower the pressures so after 5-6 laps they are at the 'optimum' posted by Casey (1.7/1.45 ish) and see what the temps look like.

Casey Ringley
17-10-2017, 18:34
Can someone tell me if these are starting pressures or hot tyre pressures?

Hot pressures.

morpwr
17-10-2017, 18:35
@morpwr - appreciate the suggestion and I have tried to push as hard as I can, I've even run like this for 10 laps but the tyres never get any warmer than what is shown here.

So are you saying that the tyres are under temperature in my video above? What would you expect slicks to be on the F:Renault?

The car ran absolutely lovely at Algarve with the same setup so I might run a few laps again there and see what temp gets into the tyres.


I would expect around 180 ish. It really looked to me like youre trying to drive it like a gt3. Like I said I'm not real good with open wheel cars but I'm getting better with practice. Everything in open wheels is later and harder. You want to really hit the brakes hard while you still have downforce and roll off as the car slows so you don't lock up the brakes as down force goes away. Ive had this happen with a few cars where my times were off and I couldn't get tire temps up in a normal range but pressures where ok. It turned out to be me just not being aggressive enough to build heat in the tire which hurts grip.

Casey Ringley
17-10-2017, 18:44
So we don't need those Pirelli numbers that say modern GTs 32psi or 2.2 bar?

I've seen that data sheet too. They also have another one for British GT showing a hot pressure target of 2.0bar with minimum inflation of 1.4bar. All overruled by what teams/drivers tell us is actually used. :)

rich1e I
17-10-2017, 18:56
I've seen that data sheet too. They also have another one for British GT showing a hot pressure target of 2.0bar with minimum inflation of 1.4bar. All overruled by what teams/drivers tell us is actually used. :)

Ok so the numbers you gave us are drivers/teams data? Now, on the 1st page of this thread David Slute said that sheet completely changed his Project CARS experience. Getting tyres to 32psi changed everything. I'm a bit confused by all the different statements, but I do appreciate your feedback.

RomKnight
17-10-2017, 19:07
Well, I guess track temps come into play so we'll always have to juggle a bit. There's no "one number fits all" solution.

Still a DEV should know how it all works and having the data from teams to work with which is way better than a "spec sheet" from a manufacturer.

Remember that tyres are a bit of "dark magic" and in racing the general rule of thumb is not quite enough as tyres are taken to extremes.

There's a reason why on every pitstop (when not changing tyres) teams look at tyres pressures, be it a 30m stint (in a driver swap window) or almost 1h stint (for fuel only pitstop) in endurance before going for the double stint.

Casey Ringley
17-10-2017, 19:11
Run whatever feels/works best for you. :) The carcass construction of our GT tires, in particular, has the contact patch pressure distribution mostly flat around 1.9bar (28psi). A little over and you stiffen things to gain some sharpness but maybe lose a little contact patch area. A little under and it might feel a bit softer/grippier but you start to get extra rolling resistance from the flex. There isn't really a wrong answer in maybe a 3-4psi bracket around those targets except one that doesn't suit your driving style.

LPlates
17-10-2017, 19:14
Taking my F:Renault issue as an example, would you expect 10degress or 5psi to make a car literally skate around as if on ice like some of my corners in the slick?
Or would you expect just some mild over/understeer to come into play?

What sort of range of poor temp/pressure would you expect to see major grip issues in general?

rich1e I
17-10-2017, 19:43
Run whatever feels/works best for you. :) The carcass construction of our GT tires, in particular, has the contact patch pressure distribution mostly flat around 1.9bar (28psi). A little over and you stiffen things to gain some sharpness but maybe lose a little contact patch area. A little under and it might feel a bit softer/grippier but you start to get extra rolling resistance from the flex. There isn't really a wrong answer in maybe a 3-4psi bracket around those targets except one that doesn't suit your driving style.

That's good news because I tried getting to 32 psi with the Nissan GT3 at Red Bull Ring. I was increasing tyre pressure step by step and still didn't get there. I'm now at almost 1.60 bar COLD and at about 30 psi hot but I feel grip has already dropped again. Optimum seemed to be around 28 psi, so I wonder what that guy on page 1 was experiencing. Tyre wear is crazy at 30 psi.

AbeWoz
17-10-2017, 19:50
yeah i've found 26-28 to be my personal sweet spot.

honespc
17-10-2017, 20:16
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72DThanks for the info Casey, but are these all target hot pressures, or the initial cold pressures?

AbeWoz
17-10-2017, 20:30
Thanks for the info Casey, but are these all target hot pressures, or the initial cold pressures?


Hot pressures.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400411&viewfull=1#post1400411

jimmyb_84
17-10-2017, 20:30
I can confirm that since I read Casey's new info I have just smashed my PB at Daytona Road course in Ferrari GT3 just done a 1:46.660 previous was 1:48. Just uploading video to my twitter account

https://twitter.com/Jimmyb_84/status/920389500911710208

honespc
17-10-2017, 20:36
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400411&viewfull=1#post1400411
Thanks.

In which category from that list would Ginetta Junior be included?, GT or road since it uses road tyres?

LukeC1991
17-10-2017, 20:54
Any info on optimal pressures for Group C cars?

Schnizz58
17-10-2017, 21:17
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

Great info, Casey! Where would Ginetta Jr. fall in that list? I'm guessing road car since it uses all-weather tires?

GenBrien
17-10-2017, 21:58
honnestly though... a lot of info should be within the game and be easy to access
User should not have to browse tons of forum post to find that data

help yourself SMS

Gix916
17-10-2017, 22:09
The one thing I would like to see is a target pressure for all the tire groups from sms. This would save a lot of time and grief for some. A real race team would know what they are looking for pressure wise. In our case right now its a guess for most of them if we knew what pressure to target you could spend a lot less time testing.

it would be nice if the in game race engineer knew this and could give a guide as to the pressure to aim for(as well as acknowledging that Differentials exist and are a valid adjustment)

morpwr
17-10-2017, 22:11
it would be nice if the in game race engineer knew this and could give a guide as to the pressure to aim for(as well as acknowledging that Differentials exist and are a valid adjustment)

Especially for people that are new to sims or just don't want to spend 30 minutes trying to get the pressures right

mister dog
17-10-2017, 22:22
honnestly though... a lot of info should be within the game and be easy to access
User should not have to browse tons of forum post to find that data

help yourself SMS
Well after all it's only us nerdy ones that are really interested in knowing this kind of stuff, that's why no racing game goes that deep ever with explaining the ins and outs of tyre pressures in their menus seeing most folk simply do not care. The explanations for every menu option which are present ingame now are already and achievement by itself.

That said I do think this knowledge compiled in a small ingame summary which you could access in the tuning menu with an extra button click, would engage more people into the art of tyre tuning, and it wouldn't hurt as a demonstration of how accurate the tyre model in PC2 can be once you actually understand the topic.

It's way more intricate than what most of us probably had as a golden rule so far which was: "soft tyres and low pressures equals faster".

GenBrien
17-10-2017, 23:28
Well after all it's only us nerdy ones that are really interested in knowing this kind of stuff, that's why no racing game goes that deep ever with explaining the ins and outs of tyre pressures in their menus seeing most folk simply do not care. The explanations for every menu option which are present ingame now are already and achievement by itself.

That said I do think this knowledge compiled in a small ingame summary which you could access in the tuning menu with an extra button click, would engage more people into the art of tyre tuning, and it wouldn't hurt as a demonstration of how accurate the tyre model in PC2 can be once you actually understand the topic.

It's way more intricate than what most of us probably had as a golden rule so far which was: "soft tyres and low pressures equals faster".
there's a **load of things to know outside tires
just look at the post Jussi made for the Differentials and how they worked. It would help a lot to have that ingame

IIRC, in Pcars 1, when people started to tweak the sauber C9 's rear wings, they started to get less downforce. Then we were told that its normal, because that wing, pass a certain point, would generate lift instead of downforce. Why was that info not in the game?
IIRC the lotus 49's body above a certain speed is genereting lift
the info was not in the game

there was TONS of small details for each cars, and tons of details more general (like tires)

Project Cars is a sim, wich is not as simple as a Need4Speed or Burnout, and required some knowledge of how cars work.
Having the tuning engeneer is a step in the right direction, but there is huge piece that is missing to help n00b(an even more advanced) players
Having the driving school like they did in GTR2 would've help A LOT

When you read comments, pretty much everywhere people are complaining about the steep learning curves and how difficult it is to drive cars and are droping the game for Forza/GT/AC/etc
it saddens me because I've particiated in WMD and I know how much the devs made Pcars complex and as close as RL as possible

maybe in future patches SMS could put all those infos somewhere WITHIN the game, and I hope for Pcars3 that it'll be there + driving scholl/ good tutorials

Casey Ringley
17-10-2017, 23:54
Great info, Casey! Where would Ginetta Jr. fall in that list? I'm guessing road car since it uses all-weather tires?

Yeah, minus a bit just because it's so light. 2.0bar(ish) hot

DayGlow
18-10-2017, 03:32
Would be nice if the reader engineer could set this for you as an option. They should have a good idea of what the cold pressure should be based on the weather and temp as of right now there is a ton of trial and error to nail it down. I don't mind tinkering a but, but I want to race in my career for the most part. I don't have hours to build what people would have from years of experience in the sim.

It would be nice if there was an option for auto pressure so as there weather changes and I box for my rain tires my race engineer knows what pressure to set them for the track temp.

Schnizz58
18-10-2017, 05:25
Yeah, minus a bit just because it's so light. 2.0bar(ish) hot
What's considered hot? I can get them up to about 50.

David Slute
18-10-2017, 06:05
What changed for me was finding this info :)
I was going by the tire colour temp and assumed blue was cold green was optimal and anything after was overheating. So i was always trying to keep the tires bluey green which were not near optimal temps. I was constantly struggling with grip and tire detail and thought it was the games modelling.
Once I read the info and found out the optimal colour temp was yellowy green and started hitting that avg psi temp. The tire model and grip detail became amazing.
I didnt follow any of the pc2 development and was out of the loop so when i decided to pick up the game last min everything was completely new.
So for someone that knew all this it probably isnt much of change....for me it made a massive difference :)

Marlborofranz
18-10-2017, 06:30
Casey, all the stuff sounds awesome indeed. But I am still struggling with tyre temperatures and preassures.

So far what I catched up:
- Lower pressures mean tire is heating more
- Higher pressures mean tire is heating less
- The tyre works best when being on the optimum pressure. But what if the pressure is correct, but due to the pressure settings the tyre is too warm/too cold?

I was used to compare the inner, middle and outer tyre temps and adjust the pressure so the middle is as hot, or in between the inner and outer temperatures. So lets assume the contact patch seems to be Ok since the temperatures inside, outside and in the middle are equal (means that every part of the contact patch is applying force on the track equally). This means the tyre is neither overinflated nor underinflated, so actually the tyre should have the pressure as suggested in your post. Or am I getting something wrong?

And let's assume the pressure is OK, but the tyres are too cold. Then I would lower the pressure to get more heat into the tyres, in order to produce more heat. Since I get more heat, the air inside the tyre expands more, so is it possible that the pressure raises even more - so would I be able to land on my optimum pressure again, even whereas I ran less cold pressure than before?

I really need to understand this because there is nothing more annoying than only knowing half of what I am doing. :P

honespc
18-10-2017, 06:46
Casey, all the stuff sounds awesome indeed. But I am still struggling with tyre temperatures and preassures.

So far what I catched up:
- Lower pressures mean tire is heating more
- Higher pressures mean tire is heating less
- The tyre works best when being on the optimum pressure. But what if the pressure is correct, but due to the pressure settings the tyre is too warm/too cold?

I was used to compare the inner, middle and outer tyre temps and adjust the pressure so the middle is as hot, or in between the inner and outer temperatures. So lets assume the contact patch seems to be Ok since the temperatures inside, outside and in the middle are equal (means that every part of the contact patch is applying force on the track equally). This means the tyre is neither overinflated nor underinflated, so actually the tyre should have the pressure as suggested in your post. Or am I getting something wrong?

And let's assume the pressure is OK, but the tyres are too cold. Then I would lower the pressure to get more heat into the tyres, in order to produce more heat. Since I get more heat, the air inside the tyre expands more, so is it possible that the pressure raises even more - so would I be able to land on my optimum pressure again, even whereas I ran less cold pressure than before?

I really need to understand this because there is nothing more annoying than only knowing half of what I am doing. :PFirst get them to the optimum hot pressure range. Then worry about temps, but right working pressures first.

AbeWoz
18-10-2017, 11:04
Also, the inside of the tire should be the hottest due to the negative camber. Outside should be like 10-15C colder than inside. (when driving in a straight line).
You want a small contact patch when running on the straights to reduce friction/rolling resistance. and the largest possible contact patch when cornering for max grippies.

But yes, if your tires are correct pressure, but low on temp, try reducing the pressures incrementally and then running a few laps. Repeat if needed. Also consider track layout and obviously track temp.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 11:26
Anybody know when softs would be appropriate? I tried the Camaro zl1 last night at road America and they never seemed to come in. Track temp was 51 degrees. Tried the mediums and you could tell right away they were better and could feel the grip increasing as they built pressure and temp. Not sure if softs have something wrong with them or just the wrong choice for the track temp. Definitely cant just choose softs anymore for the fastest times.lol

AbeWoz
18-10-2017, 11:29
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187609255040253952/358319398047449090/unknown.png


I've found if the track is like ~25C and below I can use softs for short races (6-8 laps). Talking about GTE and GT3 tho. Don't spend any time in road cars.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 11:42
...Also consider track layout and obviously track temp.

If the tyres are in the correct pressure zone but still I cannot get them anywhere near up to temperature (I'm 30deg too low at best), what else can you do?
Just lowering pressures will eventually ruin the contact patch.

AbeWoz
18-10-2017, 11:47
i can only speak for GTE/GT3 cars, but what car/track? Or just in general? How many laps do you have on the tire? Also brake temps play a role as well since they dissipate heat. Try closing the brake ducts a click or 2 if you can afford it.

Could be a call to use the softer compound tire.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 11:54
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187609255040253952/358319398047449090/unknown.png


I've found if the track is like ~25C and below I can use softs for short races (6-8 laps). Talking about GTE and GT3 tho. Don't spend any time in road cars.


Thanks. I'm starting to think the relearning curve is going to be big with pcars 2. Things you used to get away with just wont work anymore because they are modeled correctly or at least more accurately. I'm usually in gt3 cars myself but I like to try something different some nights. The Camaro is so much fun to drive. Youre really missing out not trying some of the road cars. Even some of the slower crap boxes are a lot of fun for a change of pace.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 11:54
This is the F:Renault at Redbull GP in May @ 14:00hrs. Ambient is 70F and Track is 85F.

Tyre options are slick, wet, sport. I'm on the slick. It actually laps quicker on the wet tyre and the track is dry but I'm 4 secs off the AI which I guess I should expect on the wrong tyre.

honespc
18-10-2017, 11:55
If the tyres are in the correct pressure zone but still I cannot get them anywhere near up to temperature (I'm 30deg too low at best), what else can you do?You have force your car through corners. Force your tyres and in order to keep them up to temps, but doing it in the optimum hot range pressure is what matters, otherwise the car does not handle well.

This is racing isnt it?, I know the new ranking system promotes grandpa' driving style. All you have to do is ignore the ranking system and go as fast as you can while being careful of not ramming others or causing incidents.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 12:01
This is the F:Renault at Redbull GP in May @ 14:00hrs. Ambient is 70F and Track is 85F.

Tyre options are slick, wet, sport. I'm on the slick. It actually laps quicker on the wet tyre and the track is dry but I'm 4 secs off the AI which I guess I should expect on the wrong tyre.

What do you have the ai set to?

LPlates
18-10-2017, 12:08
Actually this is practice and qualifying. I don't want to take the car into the race until I can get it up to pace.

I am pushing the car as hard as I can and still keep it on the track. The AI is definitely not having this issue even on their outlap.

The AI is at 90% which I can beat them on st Algarve, Silverstone and Nurb Gp

RomKnight
18-10-2017, 12:10
IRL the tyres on this series last an eternity. Teams can use one set of tyres for the weekend easily AFAIK from last watching it (this year at RBGP IIRC actually)

I can put my tyres pretty much in the very bright green within 2 laps (and that's in FP with an unrubbered track).

You really need to push it. Recall that little guy from Top Gear trying to drive a formula car and couldn't even heat up the brakes, let alone tyres obviously? Same thing.

Hence why I suck at Formulas. Best I can do is LMP2 because they weight more so it helps. Sure I can push for a lap or two but in a race... no way i'll be consistent hence, don't drive them :)

I see nothing wrong with the car and TBH latest reports (even in pC1) say Renault actually is a ver nice brand wrt to giving info. Add that the experience and data from Indy cars and this car is probably among the best in pC2.

Now how long does that wet tyre lasts?

morpwr
18-10-2017, 12:13
Actually this is practice and qualifying. I don't want to take the car into the race until I can get it up to pace.

I am pushing the car as hard as I can and still keep it on the track. The AI is definitely not having this issue even on their outlap.

Remember the ai is on a different simplified tire model. But ai level is way faster in this compared to pcars1. Even at 60 the ai is usually as fast or faster then top leader board times. Set at this level ive seen then lapping 2-3 seconds faster then the boards fastest time.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 12:16
I get what you are saying and I can drive the wheels off this car. At Algarve this car is a dream and I'm beating the AI at 90%. The tyres are around 195 mark there.

Nothing I've done so far can get these tyres heated up correctly at RBRGP so it's just all over the place.

I've turned tyre wear off for now to take that out of the equation.

RomKnight
18-10-2017, 12:17
You'll make install geforce experience just to save 2 laps wont you? :)

morpwr
18-10-2017, 12:21
Actually this is practice and qualifying. I don't want to take the car into the race until I can get it up to pace.

I am pushing the car as hard as I can and still keep it on the track. The AI is definitely not having this issue even on their outlap.

The AI is at 90% which I can beat them on st Algarve, Silverstone and Nurb Gp


Is this a career race?

Casey Ringley
18-10-2017, 12:22
What's considered hot? I can get them up to about 50.

'Hot' just meaning you've run several laps and everything - tires, brakes, etc - has worked up to a stable operating temperature, whatever that may be.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 12:25
Yes.

I posted a few videos on page 2 of this thread here:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2/page3

morpwr
18-10-2017, 12:30
Yes.

I posted a few videos on page 2 of this thread here:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2/page3

Ok I havent tried a career yet so I only know where the ai is in the quick races. I know from some of the other guys posts you may have to adjust the ai level in career because its not consistent from car to car or track to track. You may just have to lower it some.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 12:47
I'm pretty confident that if I can get the car/tyres working I will be able to close that gap without having to drop the AI.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 13:09
I'm pretty confident that if I can get the car/tyres working I will be able to close that gap without having to drop the AI.


Have you changed anything on the car yet other then air pressures?

AbeWoz
18-10-2017, 13:24
Thanks. I'm starting to think the relearning curve is going to be big with pcars 2. Things you used to get away with just wont work anymore because they are modeled correctly or at least more accurately. I'm usually in gt3 cars myself but I like to try something different some nights. The Camaro is so much fun to drive. Youre really missing out not trying some of the road cars. Even some of the slower crap boxes are a lot of fun for a change of pace.

I'm sure some of the road cars are great fun, I just don't enjoy them.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 15:27
I have tried loose and stable defaults and then I've gone through all of the usual things like increasing front slow bump and rear slow rebound, lowering the rear, increasing the preload and coast lsd etc. Nothing is going to have any real effect until I can get another 30 degrees into the tyres.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 16:06
I have tried loose and stable defaults and then I've gone through all of the usual things like increasing front slow bump and rear slow rebound, lowering the rear, increasing the preload and coast lsd etc. Nothing is going to have any real effect until I can get another 30 degrees into the tyres.

Did you try changing the springs to get more weight on the tires? Is it just to stiff?

LPlates
18-10-2017, 17:04
Ok latest round of testing. I've taken things to the extreme to see what happens:

Test 1) Tyre Wear off, Full throttle, 25% Brakes, Pop clutch and hold the burnout. Tyres heat up to 180. Drive for 2 laps pushing HARD. Tyres back down to 155 degrees
Test 2) Close the brake vents, drive 3 laps HARD tyres up to 195 (brakes at 1500 and fading badly :) )
Test 3) Switch to Summer/Clear and Track Temp of 115, put car back to Loose default. Drive 3 laps. Tyres up to 185 degrees.

In all of the tests above the car never felt planted and was extremely oversteery in the same low speed corners. It wasn't as bad as with the tyres in the 150 range but it never felt good.

As I've said before, on loose or stable defaults at Algarve this car is amazing. No issues.

Here is the last test session in FP/Summer/Clear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD35DHoGilc

My driving in the slow speed corners is getting really back because I have gotten used to nursing the car round. I'm usually much better. Anyway, this is hardly my issue as you can see.

After this I tried the suggestion about softer springs, I've tried harder springs and I've tried each of those with different ride heights. No difference. I give up. I cannot get this car to grip at this circuit.

@SMS - begging for some help here to understand how to get this car working in the Career Practice/Qualifying at RedBull Ring.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 17:50
Ok latest round of testing. I've taken things to the extreme to see what happens:

Test 1) Tyre Wear off, Full throttle, 25% Brakes, Pop clutch and hold the burnout. Tyres heat up to 180. Drive for 2 laps pushing HARD. Tyres back down to 155 degrees
Test 2) Close the brake vents, drive 3 laps HARD tyres up to 195 (brakes at 1500 and fading badly :) )
Test 3) Switch to Summer/Clear and Track Temp of 115, put car back to Loose default. Drive 3 laps. Tyres up to 185 degrees.

In all of the tests above the car never felt planted and was extremely oversteery in the same low speed corners. It wasn't as bad as with the tyres in the 150 range but it never felt good.

As I've said before, on loose or stable defaults at Algarve this car is amazing. No issues.

Here is the last test session in FP/Summer/Clear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD35DHoGilc

My driving in the slow speed corners is getting really back because I have gotten used to nursing the car round. I'm usually much better. Anyway, this is hardly my issue as you can see.

After this I tried the suggestion about softer springs, I've tried harder springs and I've tried each of those with different ride heights. No difference. I give up. I cannot get this car to grip at this circuit.

@SMS - begging for some help here to understand how to get this car working in the Career Practice/Qualifying at RedBull Ring.



Can you find a happy medium with the brake ducts so the tires stay hot and the brakes don't overheat?

LPlates
18-10-2017, 18:07
Probably but even with the tyres at the right temperature this car on this track is all over the place. I really don't think its the car/tyres/setup. I'm starting to think its the track.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 18:34
ok having got utterly irritate with not being able to solve this I thought I'd try something totally different.

I loaded up the current community goal for the raging bull and this was my experience.

There is something very wrong here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlMu_ZCFiTY

clanky
18-10-2017, 18:46
ok having got utterly irritate with not being able to solve this I thought I'd try something totally different.

I loaded up the current community goal for the raging bull and this was my experience.

There is something very wrong here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlMu_ZCFiTY

I had a hard time with this car as well, but I finally got it around.

Marlborofranz
18-10-2017, 18:46
Is this the default setup? The tyres seem a little overinflated, not sure though. 32 PSI on all of them and this aren't even proper race slicks. The temperature readings of the tyres are all over the place due to sliding... will have a look.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 18:48
ok having got utterly irritate with not being able to solve this I thought I'd try something totally different.

I loaded up the current community goal for the raging bull and this was my experience.

There is something very wrong here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlMu_ZCFiTY

Put hard or mediums on and try it. I used those tires last night with the Camaro and had the same issue. Softs will not give you the best times anymore. I figured with a 5o something degree track temp that was the way to go but it isn't. Not sure if its a problem with the tires or just how they should act when used in the wrong conditions.

honespc
18-10-2017, 18:57
^Like in Road Cars. Softs are the ultimate lol, in the bad sense. I don't even understand why these tyres, which btw its behaviour is just as bad as it was in pc1 (they actually feel the same, like ported over pc2) have been carried over to pc2. Only mediums and hards work well in road cars.

I simply don't understand why road cars softs perform so bad, let alone why they are there for using

Marlborofranz
18-10-2017, 19:02
Agree, just gave it a try because I've been curious... Medium tyres are a little bit better. But hell this car is a moody piece of ****. The loose setup is so damn loose that it starts spinning whenever you're not at least 90% smooth. Tyres and camber seem to be ok in the default setup as far as I can tell. Preassure as well. At least as per the temperatures the tyres seem not to be over or underinflated, so possibly a setup issue. Gonna download the setup from the event leading guy in order to see whether he tamed the oversteer...

Edit: Yes, waaaaay less oversteer, even on soft tyres. But the car maintains the nasty characteristics, e. g. when being on high speeds and turning a little, the car starts to shake left and right. Much more driveable, though.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 19:26
^Like in Road Cars. Softs are the ultimate lol, in the bad sense. I don't even understand why these tyres, which btw its behaviour is just as bad as it was in pc1 (they actually feel the same, like ported over pc2) have been carried over to pc2. Only mediums and hards work well in road cars.

I simply don't understand why road cars softs perform so bad, let alone why they are there for using


It felt like driving on ice.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 19:44
Maybe its because the video doesn't give you the feel of the car but this is not what ANY car drives like. I don't care what tyres or temperature. This is a Lambo. At 50mph it should not slip AT ALL.

Casey Ringley
18-10-2017, 20:44
Probably but even with the tyres at the right temperature this car on this track is all over the place. I really don't think its the car/tyres/setup. I'm starting to think its the track.

You know, one thing I forgot about that track is the altitude effect on aerodynamics. Thinner air means less power from the engine, but it also means less downforce from the wings. It might be you want to adjust the wing settings in a setup for RBR specifically. Try taking the rear wing up to the max setting and then feed in extra front wing until it feels balanced.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 20:49
Thanks Casey, I will give this a go but Aero isn't a factor in the really slow corners as you know and this is where the bulk of the issue seems to be.

If anything this car has much more grip in the high speed sections even on default setup.

LukeC1991
18-10-2017, 22:16
Ok latest round of testing. I've taken things to the extreme to see what happens:

Test 1) Tyre Wear off, Full throttle, 25% Brakes, Pop clutch and hold the burnout. Tyres heat up to 180. Drive for 2 laps pushing HARD. Tyres back down to 155 degrees
Test 2) Close the brake vents, drive 3 laps HARD tyres up to 195 (brakes at 1500 and fading badly :) )
Test 3) Switch to Summer/Clear and Track Temp of 115, put car back to Loose default. Drive 3 laps. Tyres up to 185 degrees.


In all of the tests above the car never felt planted and was extremely oversteery in the same low speed corners. It wasn't as bad as with the tyres in the 150 range but it never felt good.

As I've said before, on loose or stable defaults at Algarve this car is amazing. No issues.

Here is the last test session in FP/Summer/Clear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD35DHoGilc

My driving in the slow speed corners is getting really back because I have gotten used to nursing the car round. I'm usually much better. Anyway, this is hardly my issue as you can see.

After this I tried the suggestion about softer springs, I've tried harder springs and I've tried each of those with different ride heights. No difference. I give up. I cannot get this car to grip at this circuit.

@SMS - begging for some help here to understand how to get this car working in the Career Practice/Qualifying at RedBull Ring.

I had the exact same problem with the Formula Renault, Reb Bull Ring was a joke and so was Nurburgring. Like you say, at Algarve this car works, it also felt planted at Monza too. When I got to the Formila A championship the first race is at Red Bull Ring, exactly the same problems occurred with the horrendous oversteer. I never managed to find a way to get these cars to feel good and I started to think that they’re just broken. Unfortunately I haven’t driven these cars since then because it was at this point the career deleting bug wiped my progress. Don’t think I’ll be going the open wheel route next time.

Schnizz58
18-10-2017, 22:18
I had the exact same problem with the Formula Renault, Reb Bull Ring was a joke and so was Nurburgring. Like you say, at Algarve this car works, it also felt planted at Monza too. When I got to the Formila A championship the first race is at Red Bull Ring, exactly the same problems occurred with the horrendous oversteer. I never managed to find a way to get these cars to feel good and I started to think that theyre just broken. Unfortunately I havent driven these cars since then because it was at this point the career deleting bug wiped my progress. Dont think Ill be going the open wheel route next time.

Both of those tracks are at altitude so Casey may be spot on with his comment above regarding aero.

LukeC1991
18-10-2017, 22:22
Both of those tracks are at altitude so Casey may be spot on with his comment above regarding aero.

Interesting, I’ll give this a go next time I’m on the game.

Wayne Kerr
18-10-2017, 22:38
You know, one thing I forgot about that track is the altitude effect on aerodynamics. Thinner air means less power from the engine, but it also means less downforce from the wings. It might be you want to adjust the wing settings in a setup for RBR specifically. Try taking the rear wing up to the max setting and then feed in extra front wing until it feels balanced.

REally? Because so far no one has ever remarked about the downforce difference from an air / track temp of say 15 degrees vs an air temp of 30 degrees.

Between that temperature difference, you're looking at a 5% air density difference, which translates directly to the lift generated.

morpwr
18-10-2017, 23:05
Did anybody even know that was modeled? Had no idea and I don't ever remember it being mentioned in pcars 1 or 2.

LPlates
18-10-2017, 23:18
Aero has very little effect in the slow corners so whilst that may be having an effect on the high speed corners it isn't the entire answer.

Schnizz58
18-10-2017, 23:23
Did anybody even know that was modeled? Had no idea and I don't ever remember it being mentioned in pcars 1 or 2.

I remember it being discussed in terms of engine performance (lower HP at higher elevation) in PC1 but I don't recall anybody ever talking about aero performance at altitude.

Casey Ringley
18-10-2017, 23:27
Did anybody even know that was modeled? Had no idea and I don't ever remember it being mentioned in pcars 1 or 2.

It wasn't in 1, but is now. Altitude/barometric pressure affect the engine power, aero drag & downforce, and cooling of the tire, brakes, and engine.

We didn't go so far as to factor in temperature and humidity yet, but it's on a future wishlist. That kind of thing is a big deal at super speedways like Indianapolis.


The Formula Renault 3.5 issues at RBR are starting to feel like a track temperature thing. Maybe there is a time of year to test where the track is hotter? Would be a useful comparison to these runs with track temp down at 85F; that's quite cool.

AbeWoz
18-10-2017, 23:46
It wasn't in 1, but is now. Altitude/barometric pressure affect the engine power, aero drag & downforce, and cooling of the tire, brakes, and engine.

We didn't go so far as to factor in temperature and humidity yet, but it's on a future wishlist. That kind of thing is a big deal at super speedways like Indianapolis.


The Formula Renault 3.5 issues at RBR are starting to feel like a track temperature thing. Maybe there is a time of year to test where the track is hotter? Would be a useful comparison to these runs with track temp down at 85F; that's quite cool.

https://i.giphy.com/media/yOT4geBmOjaZa/giphy.webp

Schnizz58
18-10-2017, 23:50
We didn't go so far as to factor in temperature and humidity yet, but it's on a future wishlist. That kind of thing is a big deal at super speedways like Indianapolis.
I can believe that. Kinda off-topic but it's a big deal in drag racing too. At the Mile High Nationals this summer, teams were struggling like crazy to cope with the combination of warm temps, low humidity and high elevation. On the other hand, in Minnesota a few weeks later, conditions were perfect and records fell.

JohnSchoonsBeard
19-10-2017, 06:46
Just a thought. F1 teams tend to run lower downforce at the Red Bull Ring as its more of a "point and squirt" circuit. Have you tried starting with minimum downforce settings and building a tune from there?

jimmyb_84
19-10-2017, 07:38
I have created this from Casey's previous tyre info post, I built it into my spreadsheet. Hope it helps

243217

morpwr
19-10-2017, 10:31
It wasn't in 1, but is now. Altitude/barometric pressure affect the engine power, aero drag & downforce, and cooling of the tire, brakes, and engine.

We didn't go so far as to factor in temperature and humidity yet, but it's on a future wishlist. That kind of thing is a big deal at super speedways like Indianapolis.


The Formula Renault 3.5 issues at RBR are starting to feel like a track temperature thing. Maybe there is a time of year to test where the track is hotter? Would be a useful comparison to these runs with track temp down at 85F; that's quite cool.


I knew about engine performance being effected its the reason turbo cars don't lose as much on the high elevation tracks but had no idea you guys were getting that serious about real life things that have a performance effect in one way or another. Thanks for sticking around this post us and straightening us out on all the little things that have changed.:D

morpwr
19-10-2017, 10:42
It wasn't in 1, but is now. Altitude/barometric pressure affect the engine power, aero drag & downforce, and cooling of the tire, brakes, and engine.

We didn't go so far as to factor in temperature and humidity yet, but it's on a future wishlist. That kind of thing is a big deal at super speedways like Indianapolis.


The Formula Renault 3.5 issues at RBR are starting to feel like a track temperature thing. Maybe there is a time of year to test where the track is hotter? Would be a useful comparison to these runs with track temp down at 85F; that's quite cool.



Is it possible its an issue with the tires and temperature being off and the way they react? I had the same problem on the zl1 at road America with the pirrelli softs. Its like driving on ice with a 57 degree track temp. I would have thought those would be the correct tire for that temperature but the mediums were a ton better and it acted like a completely different car other then the tire change. I didn't try the hards I was having too much fun with the mediums! Its really easy to find the edge of grip with those and skate the backend through corners. Not the fastest way around but it was a lot of fun.

LPlates
19-10-2017, 11:25
Casey, my last test and video posted above were exactly the test you've suggested. The track temperature was much higher and the car performed better but the underlying issue never fully went away.

The video shows the tyres getting up to 180/190F but the back still just goes on the slower corners which it doesn't really do at Algarve at a lower track temperature.

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 13:09
I ran another practice session at Oulton Park Fosters in the Ginetta Jr. last night and I don't know...it just seems hopeless. The tires never heat up and so I push harder and then I go off the track at the downhill left-hander after turn 1. Frustrating.

AbeWoz
19-10-2017, 13:15
I ran another practice session at Oulton Park Fosters in the Ginetta Jr. last night and I don't know...it just seems hopeless. The tires never heat up and so I push harder and then I go off the track at the downhill left-hander after turn 1. Frustrating.

what were the track conditions?

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 13:27
race date, track temp, session used, setup is the default? weather as well.
Alone or how many AI?
How many *consecutive* laps done?

Guys, you need to be specific. This is not GT or forza :p (and others that are not as dynamic either...)

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 13:39
Sorry Rom, I thought I had already posted that info but it was in a different thread.

Date: 2018.03.24
Track temp: 20
Session: Race 1 in Ginetta Jr. career, practice
Setup: Mostly default but I tried adjusting suspension settings which made things worse. Cold tire pressure - 1.8
AI: 12? However many are used in that series.
Laps: 4-5

AbeWoz
19-10-2017, 13:43
Might not be enough laps to heat up the tires.

Try increasing the cold pressures too since the track is so cold. What are your pressures after the 4-5 laps? Should be around 2.0bar as Casey stated a few pages back.

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 13:58
The cooler it is, the harder you can push the car (and should) to make those tyres work, especially not having softer compounds available.

There's a reason why the fastest lap times are done when temps start to drop and cooler air (more oxygen) goes into the engine (nothing to do with tyres though).

But one needs to drive harder anyway especially this lighter cars and no DF.

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 14:02
Might not be enough laps to heat up the tires.

Try increasing the cold pressures too since the track is so cold. What are your pressures after the 4-5 laps? Should be around 2.0bar as Casey stated a few pages back.
I don't think more laps will help. They get to around 40-45 and stay there. Pressure was around 2 bars.


The cooler it is, the harder you can push the car (and should) to make those tyres work, especially not having softer compounds available.

There's a reason why the fastest lap times are done when temps start to drop and cooler air (more oxygen) goes into the engine (nothing to do with tyres though).

But one needs to drive harder anyway especially this lighter cars and no DF.
And therein lies the rub. Pushing harder results in a meeting with the tire wall because I have no grip.

Bealdor
19-10-2017, 14:09
I don't think more laps will help. They get to around 40-45 and stay there. Pressure was around 2 bars.


And therein lies the rub. Pushing harder results in a meeting with the tire wall because I have no grip.

Try a bit less tire pressure and adjust your brake ducts a bit.

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 14:10
I didn't say it was easy :D

Been so long without driving that one... It was a very fun car to drive (shouldn't be any different now)

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 14:30
Try a bit less tire pressure and adjust your brake ducts a bit.
I've tried pressures all the way down to the minimum. Brake ducts are not adjustable.


I didn't say it was easy :D

Been so long without driving that one... It was a very fun car to drive (shouldn't be any different now)
I thought so too...that's why I started with this series. Guess we were both wrong.

I still question why we're on street tires in the first place.

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 15:29
Well. very quick drive.

I get the temps up to 60C??? or was it 80? Seriously, too damn small in VR for me to see in a couple of laps.

I just know the tyres are bright green, teh car is a bit on the understeer side and drives on the sliding edge (read fun) around RBGP and LB at least.

It's not like there's just grip than it falls having no grip. It drives more like on a huge slip angle. Very forgiving car which makes sense since it's the only one that can be driven by kids really.

Not sure if it's a colour calibration or and temp issue (in the telemetry hud)...

I did notice two problems though:

- The engine overheats (I'm not even shifting at 6000rpm) no matter what

- the suspension bar doesn't fit the marks? the bar is quite "rounder" than the think white "enclosure" marks.

This is in VR, not sure if it is rendering fine on a monitor (or 3)

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 15:38
Track temp?
Setup?
RBGP == Red Bull Ring? LB == Long Beach?
Details please!

j/k...

No doubt that the cool temps in this race are a factor (and I think it gets even worse in qualy because it's cloudy) but it doesn't seem right to me that they simply won't heat up.

Agree on the understeer. I tried dropping the front bump dampers a click or two but that turned the understeer into a really nasty oversteer. Also I've tried both the stable and loose default setup.

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 15:41
Track temp?
Setup?
RBGP == Red Bull Ring? LB == Long Beach?
Details please!

j/k...

No doubt that the cool temps in this race are a factor (and I think it gets even worse in qualy because it's cloudy) but it doesn't seem right to me that they simply won't heat up.

Running here; but kidding or not you're right. I have no excuse for the lack of info after that post lol

39 track 29 ambient 2kph wind.

You got the tracks right.

wrt to setup: it's in the .sig ;)

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 16:05
I meant car setup but that's ok. :D

RomKnight
19-10-2017, 16:09
That's what's in my .sig - what other default setup could it be?

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 16:12
Derp...I missed that in the first line. :cower:

AbeWoz
19-10-2017, 16:52
FWIW i noticed on almost every car the HUD RPM gauge does not match what's shown on the in-car gauge/MoTec.

Also, a NAGP league mate of mine has real-world experience in some spec Miata races, and said the Ginetta Jr. in pCARS 2 is pretty much identical to those cars. You have to just throw them into corners, smash the throttle. Pretty much drive it like you stole it.

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 17:07
FWIW i noticed on almost every car the HUD RPM gauge does not match what's shown on the in-car gauge/MoTec.

Also, a NAGP league mate of mine has real-world experience in some spec Miata races, and said the Ginetta Jr. in pCARS 2 is pretty much identical to those cars. You have to just throw them into corners, smash the throttle. Pretty much drive it like you stole it.

That sounds like fun! I certainly would be happy to do that if I had any grip.

DayGlow
19-10-2017, 19:55
The question is does the ai struggle for grip as well. It's all good and well that you are faced with realistic issues or auto racing, but if you are struggling while the ai blasts around with no grip issues it really kills the game.

Schnizz58
19-10-2017, 20:12
The question is does the ai struggle for grip as well. It's all good and well that you are faced with realistic issues or auto racing, but if you are struggling while the ai blasts around with no grip issues it really kills the game.

I monitored an AI car and on that downhill sweeper that I'm having trouble with (Cascades) it was on rails. I have to at least lift and as far as I can tell, they're flat out. I feel like if I could get the tires to grip a little bit more, I could also do it flat too. So I'm not necessarily griping about the AI; I'm griping about the grip. :)

clanky
19-10-2017, 21:38
https://i.giphy.com/media/yOT4geBmOjaZa/giphy.webp

Cant wait for the sequel!

morpwr
20-10-2017, 02:01
Did some testing tonight and definitely think something is off with the road tires. Road America with the z71 Camaro with default loose setup except 30litres for fuel track temp 57 air temp 51 any of the tires feel like you slide all over with for some reason the mediums feeling the best. Air pressure hot around 2.0 for all tests and down to 1.95. They all felt about the same. Weird part is it almost feels to me like the forward bite is the part that's really effected by temperature. How is it at 112 mph I'm breaking the tires loose going straight right before I should shift.? Same thing going up the hill before the start line its almost impossible not to put the car into the wall and your going straight. Switched to summer and 126 track temp with 76 for air temp and all the tires felt good. I actually let the game pick for the first test and it picked softs. No more spinning the tires at 112mph and really the only thing that really felt different was the forward bite part lateral grip might have been slightly better which I would expect but not a huge difference. I was only a few mph faster through the long sweeping turn. Seems reasonable for the temperature difference. The tire temps where right about were they should be too in summer temps but could only get low 100-120s in the cooler temps. Just seems like the temperature makes too big a difference in grip and you end up chasing the tires never hooking up.

honespc
21-10-2017, 06:50
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72DCasey, I'm not finding many of those ideal hot pressures ranges optimal at all. For instance, GT cars and Road cars specially seem to handle better and more stable on much higher hot pressure marks.

Looks like F1Racer68 post of Pirelli's tyres, which showed higher pressures range than yours for all them tyres, included slicks seem to work better.

morpwr
21-10-2017, 12:44
Casey, I'm not finding many of those ideal hot pressures ranges optimal at all. For instance, GT cars and Road cars specially seem to handle better and more stable on much higher hot pressure marks.

Looks like F1Racer68 post of Pirelli's tyres, which showed higher pressures range than yours for all them tyres, included slicks seem to work better.


I noticed I liked the way they drove better but the one thing I noticed is in most cases the center of the tire was hotter then the rest when youre cornering and would cool back off once you got on a straight. This was setting the tire pressures at the higher end of caseys specs not over them.

AbeWoz
21-10-2017, 12:52
Casey, I'm not finding many of those ideal hot pressures ranges optimal at all. For instance, GT cars and Road cars specially seem to handle better and more stable on much higher hot pressure marks.

Looks like F1Racer68 post of Pirelli's tyres, which showed higher pressures range than yours for all them tyres, included slicks seem to work better.

As I've also stated previously, its very track dependent.

It's also a personal preference thing as well. Some tracks I seemed to like 1.9bar better, but I usually run around the 1.8bar range.

LPlates
22-10-2017, 12:59
New update on this from me.

I went back to the F:Renault, determined to solve this issue and move this career on.

Settings:
Career mode - AI 90%/50%Agg
F:Renault with SMS Stable Setup loaded as a starting point (also tried loose)
Redbull Ring GP @ 14:00hrs May 24th as per my post on page 2
Ambient 70F (21c), Track 85F (29c)

In practice the AI were doing 1:20's, in Qually they were doing 1:23's (no idea why this was so different)
As per my previous posts this car/track/season/temp combo results in a car that simply oversteers on lift-off and coast (but never through power). At Algarve with no changes to setup this car is a dream and has no grip issues once warmed up.

So whats new....
I've been reading the various threads on tyre temps and differentials and I also wanted to test Casey's suggestion that aero is affected by the altitude of RBRGP.

Aero:
I took the settings up to 12/20 and whilst there was a slight improvement the car still just wanted to swap ends in many of the usual corners.

Diff:
This is where the big change has finally come in. Not sure why.
I set the Coast setting to the minimum (20deg) and whilst this has caused other minor issues the car finally doesn't just let go as soon as it gets toward the apex.

So I immediately started hot lapping and even though the tyres still barely hold 160F (70c) I am now doing 1:23's with relative ease. I can push the car which is the first time ever on this track despite all the other changes I've tested.
It still squirms about a bit but with such a major diff setting I can understand why. At least its now drivable.

I guess the question now is why did this work? Is this normal?

morpwr
22-10-2017, 21:44
New update on this from me.

I went back to the F:Renault, determined to solve this issue and move this career on.

Settings:
Career mode - AI 90%/50%Agg
F:Renault with SMS Stable Setup loaded as a starting point (also tried loose)
Redbull Ring GP @ 14:00hrs May 24th as per my post on page 2
Ambient 70F (21c), Track 85F (29c)

In practice the AI were doing 1:20's, in Qually they were doing 1:23's (no idea why this was so different)
As per my previous posts this car/track/season/temp combo results in a car that simply oversteers on lift-off and coast (but never through power). At Algarve with no changes to setup this car is a dream and has no grip issues once warmed up.

So whats new....
I've been reading the various threads on tyre temps and differentials and I also wanted to test Casey's suggestion that aero is affected by the altitude of RBRGP.

Aero:
I took the settings up to 12/20 and whilst there was a slight improvement the car still just wanted to swap ends in many of the usual corners.

Diff:
This is where the big change has finally come in. Not sure why.
I set the Coast setting to the minimum (20deg) and whilst this has caused other minor issues the car finally doesn't just let go as soon as it gets toward the apex.

So I immediately started hot lapping and even though the tyres still barely hold 160F (70c) I am now doing 1:23's with relative ease. I can push the car which is the first time ever on this track despite all the other changes I've tested.
It still squirms about a bit but with such a major diff setting I can understand why. At least its now drivable.

I guess the question now is why did this work? Is this normal?


Could be yes depending on the issue. If I hate the way a car drives ill usually look at those settings first. I think in a lot of cases those are set at a safe setting to make them easier to drive but not necessarily fast. Diffs can make a huge difference in handling and normally you don't want to run any more coast then you have to. Just enough to keep the car stable on braking. Too much and the car wont want to rotate in the corner. I'm wondering if you didn't have a push/loose condition and didn't realize it. The car pushes for a second then the fronts bite and snaps the back of the car around. I actually tried that car the other night on rb its a lot of fun to drive.

LPlates
22-10-2017, 21:55
It is great car and I just had a fantastic race at Hock with it in the same career as the RBR issues. I've put the diff back to normal for Hock and it just drives lovely.

The only difference between you and I is that I am on ps4 and a lot of people have posted about similar uncontrollable oversteer issues on ps4 so I wonder if its platform specific.

morpwr
22-10-2017, 23:15
It is great car and I just had a fantastic race at Hock with it in the same career as the RBR issues. I've put the diff back to normal for Hock and it just drives lovely.

The only difference between you and I is that I am on ps4 and a lot of people have posted about similar uncontrollable oversteer issues on ps4 so I wonder if its platform specific.


That's very possible. I know when I switched from ps4 to pc it was like that for pcars1. Close but not exactly the same. I think not having the profile screen has something to do with it. Nice lap too by the way.

Jezza819
23-10-2017, 05:40
I've discovered a problem where raising the pressures to get the temps up causes severe understeer. I first noticed it in the LMP2 Ligier. Whatever track I ran at the car just seemed to push like crazy. Switched to the Aston Martin GT3 and it was the same thing, huge understeer. This time I went back into the setup and reversed the pressures back to default and the car drove more normal.

The hot pressures were around 32 psi on all the cars. Could it be that running pressures there can make some cars seem like they are skating? I haven't switched the LMP2's back yet to see what they do.

cpcdem
23-10-2017, 08:45
I've discovered a problem where raising the pressures to get the temps up causes severe understeer. I first noticed it in the LMP2 Ligier. Whatever track I ran at the car just seemed to push like crazy. Switched to the Aston Martin GT3 and it was the same thing, huge understeer. This time I went back into the setup and reversed the pressures back to default and the car drove more normal.

The hot pressures were around 32 psi on all the cars. Could it be that running pressures there can make some cars seem like they are skating? I haven't switched the LMP2's back yet to see what they do.

Probably yes, the current suggested tire pressures are much lower than that. Check this:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400146&viewfull=1#post1400146

jimmyb_84
23-10-2017, 09:07
I've discovered a problem where raising the pressures to get the temps up causes severe understeer. I first noticed it in the LMP2 Ligier. Whatever track I ran at the car just seemed to push like crazy. Switched to the Aston Martin GT3 and it was the same thing, huge understeer. This time I went back into the setup and reversed the pressures back to default and the car drove more normal.

The hot pressures were around 32 psi on all the cars. Could it be that running pressures there can make some cars seem like they are skating? I haven't switched the LMP2's back yet to see what they do.

I run both those classes at a hot pressure around 1.7/1.8 Bar or 25/26 Psi I manage 1:40 laps at Imola in the Ligier

See video via my twitter https://twitter.com/Jimmyb_84/status/921872192694038531

Jezza819
23-10-2017, 13:39
Probably yes, the current suggested tire pressures are much lower than that. Check this:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400146&viewfull=1#post1400146

That's exactly the post that I used to determine what pressures to set UNLESS I've interpreted it wrong which is entirely possible and it wouldn't be the first time.

Take Modern GT & LMP for example, using that suggestion of 1.8 bar, does that mean that is the figure you should set them at when you go in and change the setup? OR does those numbers reflect where they should END UP? Because I interpreted it to mean use these numbers to plug in to get them where they needed to be.

AbeWoz
23-10-2017, 13:42
That's exactly the post that I used to determine what pressures to set UNLESS I've interpreted it wrong which is entirely possible and it wouldn't be the first time.

Take Modern GT & LMP for example, using that suggestion of 1.8 bar, does that mean that is the figure you should set them at when you go in and change the setup? OR does those numbers reflect where they should END UP? Because I interpreted it to mean use these numbers to plug in to get them where they needed to be.

those are HOT pressures.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400411&viewfull=1#post1400411

so you need to adjust pressure so it ends up ~1.8bar (LMP/GT)

Bealdor
23-10-2017, 13:49
That's exactly the post that I used to determine what pressures to set UNLESS I've interpreted it wrong which is entirely possible and it wouldn't be the first time.

Take Modern GT & LMP for example, using that suggestion of 1.8 bar, does that mean that is the figure you should set them at when you go in and change the setup? OR does those numbers reflect where they should END UP? Because I interpreted it to mean use these numbers to plug in to get them where they needed to be.

Casey's answering your question only one page later. ;)


Hot pressures.

rich1e I
23-10-2017, 16:45
Depending on the track you set cold pressures between 1.44 and 1.47 Bar on soft tyres. After a few laps you should get the target hot pressures of around 1.80 Bar.

Jezza819
23-10-2017, 17:19
Casey's answering your question only one page later. ;)

No I saw that it's just that I interpreted it wrong. I thought he meant you set it at those numbers TO GET to ideal hot pressures.

Schnizz58
23-10-2017, 23:28
No I saw that it's just that I interpreted it wrong. I thought he meant you set it at those numbers TO GET to ideal hot pressures.

It's the pressure they should be when they warm up. If they warm up.

Jezza819
27-10-2017, 05:10
The recommendation for Touring Cars is 2.0-2.15 bar, is it the same for FWD Touring Cars? Because I adjusted the first couple of those tonight and the front tires went up to about 36psi, is that too much? Also when you're in the setup menu and you're adjusting the bar, in the lower left of each tire box is a number that changes as you change the bar, is that what the hot bar number is going to be?

rich1e I
28-10-2017, 18:05
I don't think so Jezza, you'll have to do a few laps to see where pressures settle. Yes, it's the same for FWD Touring Cars

Jezza819
28-10-2017, 19:40
I don't think so Jezza, you'll have to do a few laps to see where pressures settle. Yes, it's the same for FWD Touring Cars

Yeah it seems like it's a guessing game.

morpwr
29-10-2017, 01:01
Yeah it seems like it's a guessing game.

Its not really a guessing game just every car,track,weather,brake heat,driver combination is going to be different. So really no way around just setting them and driving it.

Marlborofranz
04-11-2017, 08:46
So I just created an excel file for the various car classes mentioned in this thread along with the ideal tyre pressure. But what I seem to have missed is the information of what temperature the tyres should aim for?

Do we have some info on this? I don't know the exact values but soft slicks should overheat quicker than hard slicks and so on. And somewhere I catched up that when you start a race with soft tyres, they're overheaten at start due to the "tyre warmers" heating them up just as much as the hard slicks... :P

Do we have some info on this?

FInroDz
08-11-2017, 07:07
What can I do when driving (private test) on A1 Ring with a Group 5 car (Porsche) in Autumn 10 am? Soft tyres rise until 50-60 C. Brakes ducts 40% or lower. No way to heat them up more.

I understand track and ambient temperature, but it seems (for me) impossible to obtain good grip in those conditions. Other suggestions?

jimmyb_84
10-11-2017, 12:37
It's all about your hot pressure?

While your tyres were at their hottest or after 5 laps what are the tyre pressures?

RomKnight
10-11-2017, 12:42
5 lpas sounds about right but at that point you have to manage them. Tyre management usually wins races ;)

hkraft300
10-11-2017, 12:50
Do we have some info on this?

Yes we do :)


From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

These are hot pressure values.



I understand track and ambient temperature, but it seems (for me) impossible to obtain good grip in those conditions. Other suggestions?

Soft tires are fine at 50-60c temperature. Have you tried matching with pressures stated above?

Marlborofranz
10-11-2017, 17:37
Yes we do :)



These are hot pressure values.



Soft tires are fine at 50-60c temperature. Have you tried matching with pressures stated above?

Thanks for the reply! Yes I tried the pressures and I definitely feel a good change. But I was also testing the temperatures, e.g. I used the default pressure and felt lots of throttle oversteer and lack of grip, while at the goal pressure with warm tyres it was almost gone. Then I put cold pressure as high as the warm pressure from the previous test and the handling was a bit better when leaving the pits, but it became better when the tyres were warned up. However they weren't as good as the previous run since they were overinflated once warm.

Definitely looks like both pressure and temperature play a role and I love tyre management as well as racing at different times and seasons, so I'd love to create a complete list of pressures and goal temperatures for each tyre type. (Road cars soft, medium and hard, slicks soft and hard, rain tyres and so on. :) )

hkraft300
11-11-2017, 00:11
One of the SMS guys made a post with temp ranges too. May have been Ringley or Jussi I can't remember.
From experience, even with hot pressures optimal, soft GT/LMP tires start to let go at 100℃. Hard tires are fine at that temp.

Cholton82
11-11-2017, 07:53
I seem to be ok with the Hard and Soft compounds now , I'm normally getting an increase of around 0.3 - 0.4 bar from cold in the GT's but I'm really struggling getting any heat into the wets or retaining any heat in the wet tyres .
Plus I would say the Softs are starting to go past the optimum at 85 and over with my setups anyway.

Marlborofranz
11-11-2017, 10:39
Nice to know! Well I am herewith summoning the respective SMS staff who knows this data while I search through the sms staff posts. :P

DreamsKnight
11-11-2017, 14:09
Guys, for the Lamborghini supertrofeo what target pressure should I have to consider?

RomKnight
11-11-2017, 15:21
I'm pretty sure they use GT3 carcass but a different compound. I'd assume GT3 values are OK for it,

Cholton82
11-11-2017, 15:35
I'd say the same as GT3 also , so around 1.8bar

poirqc
15-11-2017, 12:56
From another thread. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval/speedway tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

A post like that should be stickied!

hkraft300
15-11-2017, 13:48
Screenshot of that post to keep it close to my heart at all times :o

poirqc
18-11-2017, 12:41
A post like that should be stickied!

Bump

After seeing the suspension was stickied with the post number listed, this should be done with this one also!

Roger Prynne
18-11-2017, 13:38
Sticky done.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

poirqc
25-11-2017, 01:54
Man! :cool:

Casey's post is a god send! I was always blind in pCars 1, about Tire pressure(Partly my fault).

Now, those values are really easy to attain and follow, and my god! They make settings the balance of a car really easy! Once the target pressure is attained, i can setup the brake to attack the curves just as i want(Loose setup are good,suspension wise, most of the time!).

Now, i crave every brake point! :D

Thanks a really big bunch!

hkraft300
25-11-2017, 04:28
Be careful if you're too aggressive with brake bias. You can (my hypothesis) cook the tire surface and, even if temp and pressure read OK in telemetry, you'll lose all grip for half a labor til the tires cool.

poirqc
25-11-2017, 12:13
Be careful if you're too aggressive with brake bias. You can (my hypothesis) cook the tire surface and, even if temp and pressure read OK in telemetry, you'll lose all grip for half a labor til the tires cool.

I like to send as much to the rear as i can, and even lower max pressure just a bit. Usually, i don't really have issues with tire management.

At the same time, it could just probably be that i'm not going fast in most cars, anyway! :D

iggy
01-12-2017, 14:28
Ok, now after reading through all of this, I'm going to try and summarize what I think I learned from reading this...

Lower pressure potentially allows tires to heat up faster, however too low of a pressure and you won't have good contact patch( possibly slightly concave), sidewalls would be soft, and rolling resistance higher.

Higher pressure might not yield as much heat build up in the core of the tire, too high and contact patch would suffer (convex), tires might take longer to heat up .

For each tire type and/or car type, there is a fairly specific tire pressure that is optimal, for ideal grip you need to be close to this optimal pressure, during bulk of your race... under some tracks and under some track conditions, it may be very difficult to get the tires up to a optimal temperature, so some compromise may be required. That is, you need to determine what stable temperature area your likely to hit during your session and adjust tire pressures to be near optimal at whatever temperature it is that you can achieve.

As personal skill improves, tire heat buildup might occur faster and you may get much closer to the optimal tire temperature, this may require you lower the tire pressure to account for this higher tire temperature and the increased tire pressure that would come along with it.

Also, one thing to not overlook... the ideal pressure and the contact patch it produces will vary slightly with various factors such as the weight of the car, and even how long the tire is heavily loaded in corners.

And... on top of all that, if you spin the tires you might be causing surface to heat up and degrade, without actually building heat into the core of the tire, building up heat in such a way may do more harm than good.

Anything wrong with these thoughts/comments about all of this?

diesel97
01-12-2017, 15:41
Man! :cool:

Casey's post is a god send! I was always blind in pCars 1, about Tire pressure(Partly my fault).

Now, those values are really easy to attain and follow, and my god! They make settings the balance of a car really easy! Once the target pressure is attained, i can setup the brake to attack the curves just as i want(Loose setup are good,suspension wise, most of the time!).

Now, i crave every brake point! :D

Thanks a really big bunch!

Are these tire pressures on Casey's post-default setups? If not why not? just asking not bashing

AbeWoz
01-12-2017, 16:04
Are these tire pressures on Casey's post-default setups? If not why not? just asking not bashing

Those are the target HOT pressures.

diesel97
01-12-2017, 16:14
Those are the target HOT pressures.

I understand that but are they default setups? Understand different tracks would need changing but if I took pre-warmed tires for qualifying will these be the pressures?

AbeWoz
01-12-2017, 17:01
I understand that but are they default setups? Understand different tracks would need changing but if I took pre-warmed tires for qualifying will these be the pressures?

i dont think i understand what you're asking. tires are cold for practice and qualifying, warm for race starts.
Casey mentioned on average tires will gain .4-.5bar between whats set in the car setup and when they are warmed.

Nyreen
01-12-2017, 17:07
Anything wrong with these thoughts/comments about all of this?

On the tangible side of things, soft tyres work the best between 60 and 80 degrees. In this patch, they overheat massively quickly and you may want to run hard slicks under every condition. I did some GT3 hotlaps today and did not notice a difference between hards and pre-patch softs, apart from tyre wear :rolleyes:

Spinning tyres wears the surface. Locking your wheels causes flat spots. It's not too bad in the game, I don't even know if they are modelized since I never noticed it. In real life (or in other sims like rF2) it causes the car to feel wobbly and you just screwed up a tire worth hundred of dollars. Team managers don't like it !

Note that everything I've said have been previously, it's just to be sure we didn't forget anything important

AbeWoz
01-12-2017, 17:19
flat spots are indeed in game, they (SMS) just chose to greatly reduce the FFB effects for them. rF2 is the only game i've played that transmists flat spots to FFB and its a bit over the top and i feel like my wheel is going to break.

cpcdem
01-12-2017, 17:31
flat spots are indeed in game, they (SMS) just chose to greatly reduce the FFB effects for them. rF2 is the only game i've played that transmists flat spots to FFB and its a bit over the top and i feel like my wheel is going to break.

That's in AC, too. First time I noticed it it was just after 7-8 laps in an online race and thought my wheel had a problem, what a pity as I was first! Later I realized this was FFB from the flat spots. I have mixed feelings about it, it's more realistic (if not overdone) but also a big PITA to deal with. I think I'd just prefer this to be an option, to decide for myself if I want flatspots to translate to FFB and how much, to my own liking.

VelvetTorpedo
01-12-2017, 17:38
Automobilista has crazy flatspotting FFB also. It's super intense and cool but highly easy to do and very performance impacting.

diesel97
01-12-2017, 19:14
i dont think i understand what you're asking. tires are cold for practice and qualifying, warm for race starts.
Casey mentioned on average tires will gain .4-.5bar between whats set in the car setup and when they are warmed.

My bad about qualifying tires. the default setups should come out the blocks for racing with those ideal temps?

Cholton82
02-12-2017, 08:59
Sorry if I've missed this but what's the best way to handle wet tyres ? Let's take GT3 as an example , What cold pressure should they be set at and what sort of temperature is the best working temperature for them ? Although they don't feel bad I can barely get any temperature into them but I'm unsure as to what temps they should reach .
Thanks all

Dwaindibbly
05-12-2017, 09:16
This might be a silly question but...I’ve read caseys post on pressures, it doesn’t mention formula c, I’m assuming it’s the same as the other formula classes but would like some confirmation to put my mind at rest

Sjonnie1989
05-12-2017, 14:38
So I read some people tend to have troubles to warm-up their tires... I certainly have no issues with that, in fact it seems I'd rather overheat them. So I can manage to reach and manage that 1.8 bar just fine, but tire temps are a different story... I am nowhere near 80 or so C...

Scenario driving the Bentley GT3 with soft tires;
I come out of the pits, car is stonecold and feels slightly slippery. Half a lap to a full lap in, car starts to feel great (tire temps are near the 80 degrees C and pressure between 1.6 and 1.7). Then after lap two, temps are near 95-100C and pressure go over 1.7 and will gradually go towards 1.8 after multiple laps (I hit and maintain that target eventually), but tires remain hot and start to feel like soft rubber (they can't take really hard cornering anymore, while at the start of lap 2 they could).

The effects on Hard Tires are the same, only the entire process is slower (it will take more laps to observe the same). It makes driving in hot conditions more manageable, but eventually the tires still overheat.

Question is;
Is managing 1.8 bar really that good, or is managing tire temp better?
If tire temp; Is it better to increase pressure -> reduce scrubbing and therefore have lower tire temps -> maybe keeping my "start of lap 2" feeling?
If tire press; Or are there other setup tweaks I need to do to lower tire temps while still aiming for 1.8bar (i.e. stiffen swaybar, or lower rebounds, or smaller toe angle, open up brake duct over 75%, or....?).

I am pretty dedicated to make that Bentley work. It is not the fastest GT3 and it will never be, but I just love it! I have built it quite well so far (can do pretty consistent laps at 1:48,5 on Monza (soft compound) and 2:08,5 on COTA (hard compound) for example), but tires still seem to trouble me quite a bit... I feel this is my bottleneck to remain fast consistently.

I am having these doubts also because of reading this;
{Cannot insert link because new... See GT Planet post that is mentioned in post #3 of this thread -> on the GT Planet forum look for post #13}
And in result to that also the reference text on the Pirelli website under the 'Working Pressures' tab;
Generally speaking, heated up working pressures vary from 1.9 to 2.2 bar for GT cars

AbeWoz
05-12-2017, 16:05
So I read some people tend to have troubles to warm-up their tires... I certainly have no issues with that, in fact it seems I'd rather overheat them. So I can manage to reach and manage that 1.8 bar just fine, but tire temps are a different story... I am nowhere near 80 or so C...

Scenario driving the Bentley GT3 with soft tires;
I come out of the pits, car is stonecold and feels slightly slippery. Half a lap to a full lap in, car starts to feel great (tire temps are near the 80 degrees C and pressure between 1.6 and 1.7). Then after lap two, temps are near 95-100C and pressure go over 1.7 and will gradually go towards 1.8 after multiple laps (I hit and maintain that target eventually), but tires remain hot and start to feel like soft rubber (they can't take really hard cornering anymore, while at the start of lap 2 they could).

The effects on Hard Tires are the same, only the entire process is slower (it will take more laps to observe the same). It makes driving in hot conditions more manageable, but eventually the tires still overheat.

Question is;
Is managing 1.8 bar really that good, or is managing tire temp better?
If tire temp; Is it better to increase pressure -> reduce scrubbing and therefore have lower tire temps -> maybe keeping my "start of lap 2" feeling?
If tire press; Or are there other setup tweaks I need to do to lower tire temps while still aiming for 1.8bar (i.e. stiffen swaybar, or lower rebounds, or smaller toe angle, open up brake duct over 75%, or....?).

I am pretty dedicated to make that Bentley work. It is not the fastest GT3 and it will never be, but I just love it! I have built it quite well so far (can do pretty consistent laps at 1:48,5 on Monza (soft compound) and 2:08,5 on COTA (hard compound) for example), but tires still seem to trouble me quite a bit... I feel this is my bottleneck to remain fast consistently.

I am having these doubts also because of reading this;
{Cannot insert link because new... See GT Planet post that is mentioned in post #3 of this thread -> on the GT Planet forum look for post #13}
And in result to that also the reference text on the Pirelli website under the 'Working Pressures' tab;
Generally speaking, “heated up” working pressures vary from 1.9 to 2.2 bar for GT cars

From what I understand it's a combination of both, you want to have the best contact patch, so thats the optimum pressure range, but you don't want to over work the tire (heat). So managing tires plays a huge roll in this game, just like IRL, especially if you are doing longer races.

Also, make sure you are only using soft compound when the ambient/track temperature are in the correct range. I've found I can usually run the soft tire for 10 or so laps if the track temp is below 29C. But this varies track to track.

Schnizz58
05-12-2017, 16:26
From what I understand it's a combination of both, you want to have the best contact patch, so thats the optimum pressure range, but you don't want to over work the tire (heat). So managing tires plays a huge role in this game, just like IRL, especially if you are doing longer races.

Also, make sure you are only using soft compound when the ambient/track temperature are in the correct range. I've found I can usually run the soft tire for 10 or so laps if the track temp is below 29C. But this varies track to track.
I agree. I think of the soft tire as a qualification tire and the hard as a race tire in most circumstances. However it's tough to get the hard up to working pressure/temp sometimes.

hkraft300
05-12-2017, 21:55
...

Scenario driving the Bentley GT3 with soft tires;
I come out of the pits, car is stonecold and feels slightly slippery. Half a lap to a full lap in, car starts to feel great (tire temps are near the 80 degrees C and pressure between 1.6 and 1.7). Then after lap two, temps are near 95-100C and pressure go over 1.7 and will gradually go towards 1.8 after multiple laps (I hit and maintain that target eventually), but tires remain hot and start to feel like soft rubber (they can't take really hard cornering anymore, while at the start of lap 2 they could)...


I won’t give answers to your questions because I think you need to reword them :p

So soft and hard tires actually have a working temperature range, not a target temperature, but they have a target pressure of ~1.8 bar hot (for GT and LMP). Soft tires will work up to ~95c, beyond that they start to melt. Hard tires are slippery below ~80c.

After a few laps your tires reach their hot temperature. You want to adjust pressure in setup to hit ~1.8 bar when they are hot, at that temperature. If the hot temperature is >90c, you want to run the hard tires.

Brake temps do affect tires a lot. If you’re in that 80-100c borderline zone for tire temperature, you want to open the ducts minimum toe etc for soft tires keep them as cool as you can. If you run hard tires, heat them.


I agree. I think of the soft tire as a qualification tire and the hard as a race tire in most circumstances. However it's tough to get the hard up to working pressure/temp sometimes.

Maybe it’s public mp noob settings but, with open brake ducts, least camber you can get away with etc you can run soft mostly at euro tracks. Close the ducts and drive the hard tires hard, they like punishment :)

Cote Dazur
06-12-2017, 01:39
Is there an official list or some where in the games files where we can find the optimum tyre pressure for each tire?

Schnizz58
06-12-2017, 01:57
Is there an official list or some where in the games files where we can find the optimum tyre pressure for each tire?
Yes. Look for a post by Casey Ringley earlier in this thread.

Sjonnie1989
06-12-2017, 07:30
I won’t give answers to your questions because I think you need to reword them :p

So soft and hard tires actually have a working temperature range, not a target temperature, but they have a target pressure of ~1.8 bar hot (for GT and LMP). Soft tires will work up to ~95c, beyond that they start to melt. Hard tires are slippery below ~80c.

After a few laps your tires reach their hot temperature. You want to adjust pressure in setup to hit ~1.8 bar when they are hot, at that temperature. If the hot temperature is >90c, you want to run the hard tires.

Brake temps do affect tires a lot. If you’re in that 80-100c borderline zone for tire temperature, you want to open the ducts minimum toe etc for soft tires keep them as cool as you can. If you run hard tires, heat them.



Maybe it’s public mp noob settings but, with open brake ducts, least camber you can get away with etc you can run soft mostly at euro tracks. Close the ducts and drive the hard tires hard, they like punishment :)

Personally I find the wording of my question fine, but well it's not mandatory to answer them so I'll just have to live without the answers then :)

The thing I am running into with the tires is that eventually they will overheat (> 90C) regardless of hard or soft. It will take a longer with hard tires, but they will overheat eventually if my aim is to go and stay at 1.8 bar.

Hence my question; Is the 1.8 bar target really that important, or is the temperature range more important? To me it feels as if temperature is more important (especially because Pirelli on the website refers to higher ranges.
), but that seems to contradict with a lot that is written here in the thread.

As for soft tires for Q and hard tires for R; This is almost never the case for me. It is primarily soft, unless track temperatures require me to use hard. Also in longer stints, soft tires work perfect with degradation low and heat/pressures manageable.

M. -VIPER- Morgan
06-12-2017, 07:39
Is there an official list or some where in the games files where we can find the optimum tyre pressure for each tire?

Here:


Sure thing. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

hkraft300
06-12-2017, 08:05
The thing I am running into with the tires is that eventually they will overheat (> 90C) regardless of hard or soft. It will take a longer with hard tires, but they will overheat eventually if my aim is to go and stay at 1.8 bar.

Hence my question; Is the 1.8 bar target really that important, or is the temperature range more important? To me it feels as if temperature is more important (especially because Pirelli on the website refers to higher ranges.
), but that seems to contradict with a lot that is written here in the thread.

Now you're asking the right questions :o
Hard tires are happy >90c. They'll grip well over 110c. So if your soft tires are going over 90c, switch to hard tires and cook them with closed brakes, extra toe and camber, throw everything you got at it, and adjust your cold pressure to suit. Dubai summer, for example, won't bother the hard tires but you couldn't do a lap in soft before they melt. The hot pressure of 1.8 bar is really for good contact patch, so both are important.

As for quali vs race: soft tires can be handy to go out and do a fast lap or 2 then back to pits if you don't have a lot of time at hand. Hard tires need a few laps to warm up, so you need enough time in quali to work with hard tires.

ironik
06-12-2017, 08:58
Brake temps do affect tires a lot. If youre in that 80-100c borderline zone for tire temperature, you want to open the ducts minimum toe etc for soft tires keep them as cool as you can. If you run hard tires, heat them.


It's not the first time I read something like this and it's bothering me a lot.
Are you sure about this statement ?
IIRC, Casey said that the brakes temp doesn't impact tyres temp that much (But the pressure, yeah quite a bit) and it was logical in my mind : The heat in the brakes transfers to the brakes rotor and then to the rim, making the air in the tyre hotter.
Only a fraction of that heat should transfer to the tyres rubber (Rubber doesn't conduct heat that much).

EDIT:
Furthermore, if one closes his ducts for getting more heat in the tyres, the brakes will likely overheat.
If one opens the brake ducts for getting colder tyres, brakes won't reach optimal working temps.

hkraft300
06-12-2017, 09:25
It's not the first time I read something like this and it's bothering me a lot.
Are you sure about this statement ?
IIRC, Casey said that the brakes temp doesn't impact tyres temp that much (But the pressure, yeah quite a bit) and it was logical in my mind : The heat in the brakes transfers to the brakes rotor and then to the rim, making the air in the tyre hotter.
Only a fraction of that heat should transfer to the tyres rubber (Rubber doesn't conduct heat that much).

EDIT:
Furthermore, if one closes his ducts for getting more heat in the tyres, the brakes will likely overheat.
If one opens the brake ducts for getting colder tyres, brakes won't reach optimal working temps.

You're right. Air gets hot, inner tire wall gets hot but that doesn't transfer to the tread rubber very well. If we measured the rubber temp at the innermost layer, we'd read a difference from brake heat. However the tire temp reading in telemetry is taken at a different layer within the rubber. You're correct in that brakes quickly and most notably affects tire pressure. Heat the brakes and stop the car watch the pressure spike!

I'm just saying do whatever you an to heat the hard tires. It's all a trade off: run the brakes hot, lose brake power but gain a bit of grip/ cool the brakes but lose a bit of grip... open the ducts to keep minimal pressure/temp rise in soft tires... gain grip but gain drag... balancing act.

ironik
06-12-2017, 09:38
You're right. Air gets hot, inner tire wall gets hot but that doesn't transfer to the tread rubber very well. If we measured the rubber temp at the innermost layer, we'd read a difference from brake heat. However the tire temp reading in telemetry is taken at a different layer within the rubber. You're correct in that brakes quickly and most notably affects tire pressure. Heat the brakes and stop the car watch the pressure spike!

I'm just saying do whatever you an to heat the hard tires. It's all a trade off: run the brakes hot, lose brake power but gain a bit of grip/ cool the brakes but lose a bit of grip... open the ducts to keep minimal pressure/temp rise in soft tires... gain grip but gain drag... balancing act.

Ok, I understand what you mean then. Every bits help, I guess. :)

I'm currently facing the opposite problem : My hard tyres are overheating.
If I open the brake ducts, I can definitely feel the loss of braking power.
So yeah, the tyres are a bit colder but it could be due to the lack of braking power rather than less heat transfer => Less friction => less heat.
This is backed up by my increased lap times.

I'm really struggling to keep my tyres in the working temperature range. I guess the only way I could manage it, is by driving slower then. :sorrow:

cpcdem
06-12-2017, 10:19
Guys, just also keep in mind that the tire model has changed a lot after patch 3 and we're not all yet in it, so console users keep in mind that what you know now will change soon. As a heads up, now hard tires get up to temperature much faster and soft tires overheat much faster, too. I am also currently having a hard time keeping the hards inside the operating temperature window, but I am really not interested in going again through the process of finding how to properly do that, so I am waiting for others to work on that and post their findings in the forum :). In return, I try to help in other areas when I can.

ironik
06-12-2017, 10:33
Guys, just also keep in mind that the tire model has changed a lot after patch 3 and we're not all yet in it, so console users keep in mind that what you know now will change soon. As a heads up, now hard tires get up to temperature much faster and soft tires overheat much faster, too. I am also currently having a hard time keeping the hards inside the operating temperature window, but I am really not interested in going again through the process of finding how to properly do that, so I am waiting for others to work on that and post their findings in the forum :). In return, I try to help in other areas when I can.

IMO, there is no "magical tip" to keep the tyres temp in optimal operating range.
I mean, I'm training for a race around Laguna Seca where the track temp is around 53c.
There is no way you can keep the hard tyres around 90c.

My guess is that if I'm overheating the tyres, I have to slow down a bit to keep my tyres around an acceptable temperature.

For colder temp, if my tyres are too cold, I would want to create as much friction as possible to increase heat. Ie: Pushing as hard as I can.

hkraft300
06-12-2017, 10:35
Ok, I understand what you mean then. Every bits help, I guess. :)

I'm currently facing the opposite problem : My hard tyres are overheating.



As a heads up, now hard tires get up to temperature much faster and soft tires overheat much faster, too. I am also currently having a hard time keeping the hards inside the operating temperature window...

What pressure and temp are the hard tires getting to with the new patch?
I've had them up at 110c lapping the amg gt3 at Dubai on a summer after noon, ~65℃ track temp. The hard tires loved it! Hot pressure was ~1.8 bar.

ironik
06-12-2017, 10:44
What pressure and temp are the hard tires getting to with the new patch?
I've had them up at 110c lapping the amg gt3 at Dubai on a summer after noon, ~65℃ track temp. The hard tires loved it! Hot pressure was ~1.8 bar.

110c is a great temp for hard tyres. Maybe not optimal but I'd love to have that around Laguna Seca for my race ^^

53c track temp :
For one lap (4 temp measurement), while not pushing too hard, I get something like :
103/107
110/115

Pressures are something like :
1.77/1.84
1.85/1.86

My Inside rear right tyre is peaking around 130c while pushing though (122-125c while driving more smoothly).

iggy
06-12-2017, 17:12
Yup... I understand that the tire model is going to change , once I get access to the v1.3 patch. ( I'm on PS4 ). I'm trying to be cautious about how much effort I put into trying to figure out tires right now, but I assume that some of the basics about tires will still be true even when I do get the v1.3 patch.

Marlborofranz
08-12-2017, 05:29
I did test the soft tyres post patch for the first time yesterday and it looked good. Lmp on Algarve in the hot afternoon, heating the softs up to 115 degree Celsius. Significant wear after 5 laps. The tyres didn't turn red, though. You just notice the excessive wear at some point.

Have to test the wet tyres, too. Because id like to have to pit after track dries up because the wet tyres being overheated...

hkraft300
08-12-2017, 06:19
Pwooaa... 115c on soft tires? How's they handle?
I did a quick race today. ~40c track temp at nurb gp in the LMP900 (333sp for me) and had the tires between 85-90c. Didn't notice wear (only 8 laps) but the tires felt good.

Marlborofranz
08-12-2017, 10:22
Haha that's odd... I was using the Toyota lmp1 hybrid thingy at Algarve, somewhere around July/August with light clouds in the afternoon. They felt not that bad but after 5 laps the tyre indicators showed 50% wear on the left tyres due to the clockwise driving direction

The only time the tyres went red was at the long righthander into the finish straight, lots of friction on the front left

Sjonnie1989
11-12-2017, 07:56
So now that patch 3.0 landed for me on Xbox, I gave it a proper run during the weekend. Loaded up my "old" tune on the Bentley, tweaked it to handle the new physics, and wow... The issues I had with the Bentley in a long run are gone. Still not the fastest car due to a small lack of hp (around 10-15hp imo), but since I only race Public Lobby's it will get me quite some wins along the way :)

First of all, soft and hard tires now work with the ambient track temperatures according to the temperature chart, which is great! The grip levels on hard and soft now feel more similar and the right tire choice can really make or break your race!

Earlier I doubted wether I should go for a focus on temperature or pressure, but after proper testing I must conclude that pressure is the way to go. However, temperature will define your tire feel, while the pressure (1.8 really feels best) defines you grip/speed and consistency. During a 10 lap Spa race my pressures got to 1.86 bar and could really feel the grip decrease. After a spin late in the race (pressure 1.86-ish), I lowered my pace and pressures got back to 1.8 -> car felt great again and I could really push it again.

Conclusion; Tire temps and pressures work awesome! Tips in the forum really helped, so thanks for that! My focus for now;
Ambient track temp < 30C
Soft tire -> Tire temp <90C with 1.8 bar (focus on temperature and pressure around 1.8, as soon as temps get higher, I now switch to a more aggressive hard tire setup)

Ambient track temp > 30C
Hard tire -> Tire temp >80C and <110C with 1.8 bar (full focus on 1.8 bar which has most significant effect on grip, but temperature needs to be between target temps)

ironik
11-12-2017, 08:14
Conclusion; Tire temps and pressures work awesome! Tips in the forum really helped, so thanks for that! My focus for now;
Ambient track temp < 30C
Soft tire -> Tire temp <90C with 1.8 bar (focus on temperature and pressure around 1.8, as soon as temps get higher, I now switch to a more aggressive hard tire setup)

Ambient track temp > 30C
Hard tire -> Tire temp >80C and <110C with 1.8 bar (full focus on 1.8 bar which has most significant effect on grip, but temperature needs to be between target temps)

How do you manage to keep you soft tyres under 90c when the track temp is around 30c ?
I have an AOR Race incoming around Monza with 24c track temp : the left tyres are overheating (~100C peak temp) and wearing a lot.
If I use hard tyres, they're too cold.

This is gonna be tricky. ^^

hkraft300
11-12-2017, 09:03
100℃ peak at Monza isn't too bad because the pit straight cools it.
Best way I know to save that tire is sacrifice some entry speed and go wide at parabolica. Lesmos 1+2 also hurt that tire so you'll want to be clean through there.

Or else go the hard tire and drive the marbles off it.

ironik
11-12-2017, 09:20
100℃ peak at Monza isn't too bad because the pit straight cools it.
Best way I know to save that tire is sacrifice some entry speed and go wide at parabolica. Lesmos 1+2 also hurt that tire so you'll want to be clean through there.

Or else go the hard tire and drive the marbles off it.

Yeah, Parabolica and Lesmo are the main problem around here. Like you said, I guess managing the tyres will be the way to go.
I suffer from slight understeer as soon as the softs get up to 95C+ but the main problem is the wear though.

I'm going to test the hard tyres this evening and see how it unfolds in the long run but right tyres will be dead cold which could be a problem around Vialone and Ascari.

Sjonnie1989
11-12-2017, 10:44
How do you manage to keep you soft tyres under 90c when the track temp is around 30c ?
I have an AOR Race incoming around Monza with 24c track temp : the left tyres are overheating (~100C peak temp) and wearing a lot.
If I use hard tyres, they're too cold.

This is gonna be tricky. ^^

I do the same as hkraft300. Usually the cooling on the straights is enough, otherwise adjust speed in final turn (hug the curb on the right a little bit longer, go on throttle a little later and then run wider). Peek temps are higher then 90, but usually on average they will hold out.
Otherwise, go for an aggressive hard tire setup. I did Spa during night time with track temps under 30 (track temp was higher before sunset) and tire temps remained around 80-85 but you need to drive hard all the time to keep temps up.

hkraft300
11-12-2017, 10:49
... right tyres will be dead cold which could be a problem around Vialone and Ascari.

Abuse it, make up for the time lost at the right turns.

Idea: could a little extra camber be a good trade-off? You could also go aggressive on the Aero balance and reduce rear wing. Also reduce accel ramp angle to steer with the rear a little more.

Sjonnie1989
11-12-2017, 11:20
Abuse it, make up for the time lost at the right turns.

Idea: could a little extra camber be a good trade-off? You could also go aggressive on the Aero balance and reduce rear wing. Also reduce accel ramp angle to steer with the rear a little more.

Ah yes, camber. I actually had a question about that one :)

As said I drove the Bentley for a bit more. However now with 3.0 I found out that my tires now all of the sudden had temps as such (example);
Outer - Mid - Inner
85 -92 - 93

However, no matter the camber I setup (went as far as -4.0 on both front and rear), the temperature wouldn't really change to (example);
85 - 90 - 95 (just an example, maybe even a bad one, but just to show it doesn't distribute evenly)

Is that normal? Or should I change something in the setup elsewhere? It didn't really affect my grip, but just something I noticed.

AbeWoz
11-12-2017, 11:46
Ah yes, camber. I actually had a question about that one :)

As said I drove the Bentley for a bit more. However now with 3.0 I found out that my tires now all of the sudden had temps as such (example);
Outer - Mid - Inner
85 -92 - 93

However, no matter the camber I setup (went as far as -4.0 on both front and rear), the temperature wouldn't really change to (example);
85 - 90 - 95 (just an example, maybe even a bad one, but just to show it doesn't distribute evenly)

Is that normal? Or should I change something in the setup elsewhere? It didn't really affect my grip, but just something I noticed.

inner temps will [generally] always be higher if you're running negative camber. You want to set camber so that the temps are pretty even when in the highest load corner, so probably Parabolica at Monza. Also, don't be afraid to run an asymmetrical setup.

On the aero side, for my BMW M6 tune, I run 0-3 wing for soft tires, and 0-4 for hard, along with minor tweaks to the ARB's. Still able to keep up with the other cars on the straights and I'm generally faster in Lesmos and Ascari.

hkraft300
11-12-2017, 13:12
inner temps will [generally] always be higher if you're running negative camber. You want to set camber so that the temps are pretty even when in the highest load corner, so probably Parabolica at Monza. Also, don't be afraid to run an asymmetrical setup.


If I understand you correctly...
So approaching the corner tire temps are 85-92-93 for example. Then exiting the corner the temps read 95-95-95.
Is that what you're suggesting?

Because that would mean the outside edge got more loaded than the inside edge, which means you're running too little camber?

AbeWoz
11-12-2017, 13:43
If I understand you correctly...
So approaching the corner tire temps are 85-92-93 for example. Then exiting the corner the temps read 95-95-95.
Is that what you're suggesting?

Because that would mean the outside edge got more loaded than the inside edge, which means you're running too little camber?

not exact same, just pretty even across the range, within 5-10deg between outer and inner (outside tire of the corner). This shows that the contact patch is flat, thus providing maximum grip.

hkraft300
11-12-2017, 13:54
not exact same, just pretty even across the range, within 5-10deg between outer and inner (outside tire of the corner). This shows that the contact patch is flat, thus providing maximum grip.

I understand you now. Makes sense,

inthebagbud
13-12-2017, 13:00
I have strated reading this thread and get the notion about tyres being more about reaching optimum pressure rather than focussing on temperature this time round. I played Pcars1 for a couple of years and understood what I was doing with tyres there and have only had a couple of weeks in Pcars 2 .

I have just been messing with the Merc A45 TC at Knockhill - nothing fancy just enjoying the driving but noticed that I am getting noticeably hotter tyre on front left (which was a theme in Pcars1) but I havent tuned the car as I am just looking at the basic tyre setups

I expected them to be not that far apart even without tuning but I am experiencing massive differences

Would you expect to see such difference and could it be becuase of the Knockhill track clockwise with a lot of elevation change and cornering and its extreme - so I woudl need to tune other aspects to get pressures to optimum?

247344247345

ironik
13-12-2017, 13:06
I have strated reading this thread and get the notion about tyres being more about reaching optimum pressure rather than focussing on temperature this time round. I played Pcars1 for a couple of years and understood what I was doing with tyres there and have only had a couple of weeks in Pcars 2 .

I have just been messing with the Merc A45 TC at Knockhill - nothing fancy just enjoying the driving but noticed that I am getting noticeably hotter tyre on front left (which was a theme in Pcars1) but I havent tuned the car as I am just looking at the basic tyre setups

I expected them to be not that far apart even without tuning but I am experiencing massive differences

Would you expect to see such difference and could it be becuase of the Knockhill track clockwise with a lot of elevation change and cornering and its extreme - so I woudl need to tune other aspects to get pressures to optimum?

247344247345

Yeah, Tyres temp is heavily related to the track layout.
IIRC all the fast and "heavy" (tyres wise) corners are right handed, so this is quite logical in my opinion.

EDIT:
Furthermore, rear tyres in a FWD car are much, much less stressed than the fronts.
Maybe you could tune the car to get a bit more of rear slip or a better contact patch.

Schnizz58
13-12-2017, 14:24
I have strated reading this thread and get the notion about tyres being more about reaching optimum pressure rather than focussing on temperature this time round. I played Pcars1 for a couple of years and understood what I was doing with tyres there and have only had a couple of weeks in Pcars 2 .

I have just been messing with the Merc A45 TC at Knockhill - nothing fancy just enjoying the driving but noticed that I am getting noticeably hotter tyre on front left (which was a theme in Pcars1) but I havent tuned the car as I am just looking at the basic tyre setups

I expected them to be not that far apart even without tuning but I am experiencing massive differences

Would you expect to see such difference and could it be becuase of the Knockhill track clockwise with a lot of elevation change and cornering and its extreme - so I woudl need to tune other aspects to get pressures to optimum?
That fits what I've seen so far. To this point, the only cars I've driven a lot are the Ginetta Jr. and the GT5 -- both RWD. I see the same thing you do. The outside front tire will generally be the hottest (and often the only one in the optimum temperature range). Maybe things will be different when I start getting into heaver cars like GT3s.

So I think we have to adjust our paradigm a bit. Instead of trying to keep the temps of all the tires in the green, we need to keep the pressures optimal and let the temps do what they will.

hkraft300
13-12-2017, 22:46
The temp range is much wider in pc2 tires. In pc1 it was only ~95c +/- 10c.

PC2 soft tires are good from stone cold up to ~100c (but at that high temps wear becomes a big issue), hard tires switch on ~80c+.

Bdawg111
15-12-2017, 03:43
inner temps will [generally] always be higher if you're running negative camber. You want to set camber so that the temps are pretty even when in the highest load corner, so probably Parabolica at Monza. Also, don't be afraid to run an asymmetrical setup.

On the aero side, for my BMW M6 tune, I run 0-3 wing for soft tires, and 0-4 for hard, along with minor tweaks to the ARB's. Still able to keep up with the other cars on the straights and I'm generally faster in Lesmos and Ascari.

Tried this on Road America. Initially I was running at about a 32-35 degree F difference between the inner and outer portions of my front tires. To even the temps out I increased the camber angle from -3.0 to -2.0.
However upon running a few laps I noticed that the difference in temps was still ~30 degrees. I am not sure what else to do or if I need to do anything. Still a rookie tuner.
Note: I was running in the LMP2 class on Road America in the rain.

AbeWoz
15-12-2017, 10:58
Tried this on Road America. Initially I was running at about a 32-35 degree F difference between the inner and outer portions of my front tires. To even the temps out I increased the camber angle from -3.0 to -2.0.
However upon running a few laps I noticed that the difference in temps was still ~30 degrees. I am not sure what else to do or if I need to do anything. Still a rookie tuner.
Note: I was running in the LMP2 class on Road America in the rain.

You have to look at temp difference in the highest load corner. Carousel at Road America and the turn right after Canada Corner.

hkraft300
15-12-2017, 12:54
I’ve been going minimum camber for rain setups. The lateral load/ grip just isn’t there to push the tire over upright on dry camber settings.
Thoughts?

AbeWoz
15-12-2017, 13:01
I’ve been going minimum camber for rain setups. The lateral load/ grip just isn’t there to push the tire over upright on dry camber settings.
Thoughts?

makes sense to me. car is slower in the rain so less weight transfer.
Run softer springs, dampers, ARBs and raise ride height as well to see how that affects the car.

rich1e I
15-12-2017, 15:11
Does anyone know what the optimum tyre pressure for Gr. A cars would be?

AbeWoz
15-12-2017, 15:23
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

"Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT"

rich1e I
15-12-2017, 15:30
Thanks man.

Matt York
15-12-2017, 23:37
I’ve been going minimum camber for rain setups. The lateral load/ grip just isn’t there to push the tire over upright on dry camber settings.
Thoughts?

Lowering camber will help in the wet, not so sure about going minimum but then again it does depend on the track. Tracks with higher corner loads might benefit from keeping some camber (or not going to it's lowest setting) to keep some of the cornering performance, but tracks with slower corners and longer straights will benefit from the lower camber.

Matt York
16-12-2017, 00:01
inner temps will [generally] always be higher if you're running negative camber. You want to set camber so that the temps are pretty even when in the highest load corner, so probably Parabolica at Monza. Also, don't be afraid to run an asymmetrical setup.

On the aero side, for my BMW M6 tune, I run 0-3 wing for soft tires, and 0-4 for hard, along with minor tweaks to the ARB's. Still able to keep up with the other cars on the straights and I'm generally faster in Lesmos and Ascari.

Just read the conversation about the Monza discussion for the AOR League race. Shame I didn't find this earlier as I was doing it too and learnt an absolute ton from testing in the week up to that race which clicked a number of pieces to a puzzle that I was building across the season in terms of understanding the setup and what was working and what was not.

My M6 setup differed from yours, with 0-2 wing for soft tyres, ended up keeping the pressures around 1.80-1.83 hot, think I softened the rear ARB a bit but took a lot of camber out to -1.8 on front, -1.3 on rear. Ducts closed up to 55 front, 20 rear, radiator 55%, and decreased power ramp on the diff down to 50 to counter the on power understeer on the soft. Then it was just fiddling with dampers to take the bumps and the transition coming out the exit of Ascari, as I was finding the rear was wanting to come round going from the right into the left, and there's a bump in the middle of it that upsets it more. Softened the rear and adjusted the transition rate to make it much more settled over that, meaning I didn't have to worry so much about getting the car perfectly settled for it. Race pace with 108L of fuel is 1:49.0 - 49.3, which drops as the fuel burns off.

In terms of looking after the temperatures, all very much how you drive. Think I had a peak of 95C on the front left in the entire race. Slow(ish) in and fast out for the chicanes. Make sure you get the car slowed down compromising the first part to give a better run out the second part of both chicanes. You know you've done it right when you get barely any tyre squeal or scrub when initially turning in, and you're powering out hard. For the first of the 2 Lesmo's, brake late and take a wide entry in, and basically make your apex late pretty much at the end of the inside curb, and that's when you want to get back on it full throttle so you don't understeer heavily wide. If you make a nice constant arc, you don't work that outside front too hard and you keep the temps down on it giving you good grip for the second Lesmo. With the hard tyre though, you can tuck in on the inside nice and early and use the camber of the corner, and hug it all the way through without issue. Second Lesmo take the same with both tyre types. Parabolica is the one where you can scrub a ton of life off the tyre. I was making sure to get the car in with a nice arc and let the car slow off throttle in to the inside curb, be patient and just as that curb ends, bring in the power and run it out wide by decreasing the steering angle but make sure not to run out onto the run off. If you do it right, on a hot lap you'll have the outside tyre temp somewhere in the 90-95 range. If you're really looking after the tyre you can keep it around 87-92. That's of course on the soft at night, when the track was around 24C. But with a bit of experimentation and some willingness to adjust your lines a little, take a different approach with some patience, you can really look after the tyres in terms of temperature and tyre life whilst still maintaining good lap times.

Marlborofranz
17-12-2017, 10:34
How about touring car slicks? I just noticed that with the touring cars, driving Barcelona sprint, in the last turn to the finish straight I roast the front left tyre. Tried pushing less but the AI seems to outrun me anyway. Also in the Astra all AI opponents can outbrake me in the brake zone. Smashing the brakes 100% but no tyre lock up, feels like I can't brake as much as with other cars that already lock the tyres just by thinking about braking...

LukeC1991
17-12-2017, 15:11
Can anyone help me with Group C tire pressures? I’m guessing from the post a few pages back that these cars would class as vintage GT? The recommended hot pressures for those are 1.8. But the car feels great when I leave the pits, then after 2 or 3 laps it suddenly gets really bad understeer when the tires start to get to around 1.7 bar. The car feels horrible after a few laps no matter what I change on the pressures. I know the problem isn’t tire wear because I turned tire wear off just to see if that was causing the problem.

AbeWoz
17-12-2017, 15:22
Can anyone help me with Group C tire pressures? I’m guessing from the post a few pages back that these cars would class as vintage GT? The recommended hot pressures for those are 1.8. But the car feels great when I leave the pits, then after 2 or 3 laps it suddenly gets really bad understeer when the tires start to get to around 1.7 bar. The car feels horrible after a few laps no matter what I change on the pressures. I know the problem isn’t tire wear because I turned tire wear off just to see if that was causing the problem.

you have to pay attention to heat also. pressure may be fine but if you're overheating your tires, you are losing grippies

LukeC1991
17-12-2017, 15:25
you have to pay attention to heat also. pressure may be fine but if you're overheating your tires, you are losing grippies

My tires are getting no hotter than 200F on the soft compound, is that too much?

hkraft300
17-12-2017, 20:09
My tires are getting no hotter than 200F on the soft compound, is that too much?

Borderline. You don’t want to use soft tires on track temp >20c. Try the hard tires.
Also if you’re pushing, you could be heating th3 tire surface too much without any indication.

rich1e I
20-12-2017, 20:03
How about touring car slicks? I just noticed that with the touring cars, driving Barcelona sprint, in the last turn to the finish straight I roast the front left tyre. Tried pushing less but the AI seems to outrun me anyway. Also in the Astra all AI opponents can outbrake me in the brake zone. Smashing the brakes 100% but no tyre lock up, feels like I can't brake as much as with other cars that already lock the tyres just by thinking about braking...

Barcelona is an absolute tyre killer, no matter in what car you drive. Besides maybe increasing pressures a bit to reduce contact patch and get slightly less heat there's nothing you can do about it I guess.

rich1e I
24-12-2017, 11:21
I noticed something strange yesterday. As BoP in GT3 and GT4 has been addressed with the latest patch I wanted to give some GT4s a go that were not competitive, so I took the Toyota GT86 to Donington Park. I used hard tyres, 1.42 bar in the front and 1.40 in the rear cold and did a few laps to see what happens. After just a few laps I looked at my hot pressures in the HUD and I saw my front tyre went completely crazy. Hot pressures were at 30/31 psi (>2.00 bar). Rear tyres were almost fine, still way too high but I thought if I reduce to 1.38 bar cold they should be fine. Back to the pits, 1.38 both front and rear and again my front tyre pressures exploded and went up to 2.10 bar. This can't be right. Is this a know issue with the Toyota GT4?

Took it to Oulton Park and it was the same, front tyres seem to be bugged. I'll try to reduce cold pressures to 1.30 bar to see where they get but I guess somethings broken.

hkraft300
24-12-2017, 12:10
It's not the tires that are broken on the Toyota GT4, I don't think. The front brakes overheat and cook the tires.

rich1e I
24-12-2017, 13:22
It's not the tires that are broken on the Toyota GT4, I don't think. The front brakes overheat and cook the tires.

Yeah I remember that. I was wondering why I could only adjust rear brake ducts but I didn't pay attention to brake temps. So it's the heat from the brakes. Shame, it's actually a very nice car to drive and very stable.

hkraft300
24-12-2017, 14:43
I get a bit of high speed oversteer in the 86 GT4. Otherwise it’s nice, but ruined atm.

tommysalami
25-12-2017, 02:33
It's not the tires that are broken on the Toyota GT4, I don't think. The front brakes overheat and cook the tires.

Brake heat barely affects tire temperature, but does affect tire pressure, so lower front starting pressure could be looked at.

hkraft300
25-12-2017, 02:48
Brake heat barely affects tire temperature, but does affect tire pressure, so lower front starting pressure could be looked at.

Correct. My mistake.

I didn't bother lowering the pressure. The front brakes became ineffective in a few laps of red bull ring.

STRAKKA R11
26-12-2017, 10:01
Is there any tips i can get for heating the rear tyres on a Fwd car such as the clio or astra tcr? Help would be very appreciated thnak you :)

hkraft300
26-12-2017, 11:58
Can you close the rear brake ducts, run it hot?
Or soft tires on hot track. Just keep them over-inflated and enjoy the oversteer.

Cristi
02-01-2018, 04:03
Hello,

Question about Formula C and R tyres: What are Slick and Sport compounds actually? Are they like a soft and hard compound? What are the optimal temperature range for them? I found i'm having a lot of trouble with the slick tyres in colder weather. They're extremely slippery. Wet tyres are way better, even though it's dry.

Also, i haven't seen any tyre temperature targets yet. I've seen people recommending soft tyres up to 90 degrees, hard tyres between 90-110. What about wet tyres? Or the mysterious Slick and Sport Formula tyres?

Thanks.

poirqc
02-01-2018, 18:25
Can you close the rear brake ducts, run it hot?
Or soft tires on hot track. Just keep them over-inflated and enjoy the oversteer.

Good idea!

GrimeyDog
02-01-2018, 18:58
Pcars2 Tyre model is totally different than Pcars1 in a Good way!!! Tire Abuse is still possible in Pcars2 but it will Not go un punished!!! It may Not affect you on the current lap that you Abuse them but it definitely comes back to bite you in the Arse within a lap or 2 afterwards because you will start loosing time!

How much tire abuse you can get away with is IMO is also Very track dependent.... I can abuse the Life outta Hard Tires on Watkins Glen because i throttle steer through when I feel grip getting low but Laguna Seca and Bruno tire abuse will cost you the Race!!! its Very hard to throttle steer on those tracks.

I still drive Stock set up ....stock set up fits My Driving style well and i can get Really Good Lap times for Me knowing the Track is most important to Me Running Good laps.

morpwr
02-01-2018, 20:03
Pcars2 Tyre model is totally different than Pcars1 in a Good way!!! Tire Abuse is still possible in Pcars2 but it will Not go un punished!!! It may Not affect you on the current lap that you Abuse them but it definitely comes back to bite you in the Arse within a lap or 2 afterwards because you will start loosing time!

How much tire abuse you can get away with is IMO is also Very track dependent.... I can abuse the Life outta Hard Tires on Watkins Glen because i throttle steer through when I feel grip getting low but Laguna Seca and Bruno tire abuse will cost you the Race!!! its Very hard to throttle steer on those tracks.

I still drive Stock set up ....stock set up fits My Driving style well and i can get Really Good Lap times for Me knowing the Track is most important to Me Running Good laps.



One thing everybody overlooks is the fact that if you aren't fast enough the tires wont heat up as much and you cant make them. Other wise the guys with the crazy fast lap times couldn't do it without cooking the tires. Ive been in the same boat and finally realized I need to be more aggressive with my driving then the temps will come up and the lap times go down.:D

Schnizz58
03-01-2018, 16:10
Brake heat barely affects tire temperature, but does affect tire pressure...

How is this possible?

Cristi
03-01-2018, 16:25
How is this possible?

The only way for brake heat to go into the tyres is through radiation, through the air. This, as you can imagine, what with all the airflow through the rim, is not very effective. However, heat from the brakes is easily passed to the rim via conduction (since the two are bolted together), and from the rim to the air inside the tyre, which expands.

Schnizz58
03-01-2018, 16:38
The only way for brake heat to go into the tyres is through radiation, through the air. This, as you can imagine, what with all the airflow through the rim, is not very effective. However, heat from the brakes is easily passed to the rim via conduction (since the two are bolted together), and from the rim to the air inside the tyre, which expands.

Thanks. I guess I assumed the hot air inside the tire would also heat the carcass but I suppose that's not a very efficient process either. Disclaimer: I skipped thermo in college.

Bealdor
04-01-2018, 06:32
Thanks. I guess I assumed the hot air inside the tire would also heat the carcass but I supposed that's not a very efficient process either. Disclaimer: I skipped thermo in college.

It does happen,yes. But it's a very slow process.

M4MKey
04-01-2018, 16:54
I've yet to read this topic in details but is there any way to have a short summarize ?

I mean, it would make sense that in the aim to increase tire temp, you should lower the pressure ( because greater rollign resistance ). But lowering pressure on cold ambient isn't working on pC2.
From what I seem to read here, we should increase the pressure to gain tyre temperature ?

Schnizz58
04-01-2018, 17:06
I've yet to read this topic in details but is there any way to have a short summarize ?

I mean, it would make sense that in the aim to increase tire temp, you should lower the pressure ( because greater rollign resistance ). But lowering pressure on cold ambient isn't working on pC2.
From what I seem to read here, we should increase the pressure to gain tyre temperature ?

tl;dr summary is that pressure is what we need to optimize now, not temperature because pressure is what dictates the size and shape of the contact patch. Go back to the first page or two of this thread and there is a summary of target pressures for different tires. Set your cold pressures such that when the tires warm up to a steady-state temperature they are at that optimum pressure.

poirqc
05-01-2018, 01:41
I've yet to read this topic in details but is there any way to have a short summarize ?

I mean, it would make sense that in the aim to increase tire temp, you should lower the pressure ( because greater rollign resistance ). But lowering pressure on cold ambient isn't working on pC2.
From what I seem to read here, we should increase the pressure to gain tyre temperature ?

The ballpark measure are stickyed in this forum section.

Cristi
05-01-2018, 02:58
Speaking of tyre temps, it would be nice if tyre warmers were an option for the motorsports that use them.

hkraft300
05-01-2018, 06:01
Speaking of tyre temps, it would be nice if tyre warmers were an option for the motorsports that use them.

But... it's not an option for the motorsport that use them, is it?

Cristi
05-01-2018, 12:01
But... it's not an option for the motorsport that use them, is it?

Well, normally you would want to have hot tyres all the time, but maybe sometimes you want to go out with cold tyres. Having the option would be nice. And if you wouldn't have the choice of turning tyre warmers on or off, it would make sense to have them always on. This does have the downside that you never get to learn about the awesome tyre model.
In any case, i was mostly referring to always having cold tyres in practice and qualifying in a sport that has tyre warmers. Then again, maybe that's how it is in real life.