PDA

View Full Version : Wow mind blown



TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 01:45
Wow SMS, Incredible!

Last turn at Sugo Sportsland on lap 1 with tyres not yet up to temp / pressure,

Mind Blown.......

242734
242735
242736

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 01:48
You should raise them a bit! :)

TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 01:49
You should raise them a bit! :)


Yeah i guess i should hey?
They were the default pressures

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 01:51
Yeah i guess i should hey?
They were the default pressures

Check this out. (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/)

TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 02:01
Check this out. (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/)

Wow thanks for sharing that, that's going to be a great help.

What an incredible tyre model we have here ;)

peterCars
14-10-2017, 02:12
it's a bit of a let down I must say.

Ian Bell
14-10-2017, 02:14
it's a bit of a let down I must say.

That's got us all a bit deflated.

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 02:15
That's got us all a bit deflated.
Ba dum tsss..

lancashirelad
14-10-2017, 03:15
This thread is getting tiresome, you all need to get a grip :)

msmith792
14-10-2017, 03:33
I have to be honest. I'm impressed with the fidelity of the tire model and the work that has gone into the cars. I felt the FWD cars had too much lift off oversteer, but after kindly being shown some interviews and comments from actual drivers....this is how it is supposed to be apparently.

I think SMS might have a big hit here. AI and some graphics updates aside....this game has sooo much potential. Great work so far guys!

Keena
14-10-2017, 03:46
Check this out. (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/)

Thanks for sharing this! I wonder how many people are still running around with under-inflated tyres.. I reckon this could do with a bit of publicity.

And SMS as above- great job.

E_Luckow
14-10-2017, 04:11
Just amazing!! :yes:

Heard someone saying this is not a sim? Just take it :victorious:

Ian Bell
14-10-2017, 04:13
Just amazing!! :yes:

Heard someone saying this is not a sim? Just take it :victorious:

The funniest news I heard yesterday was one online sim 'reddit style group' are considering removing us from their 'sim discussions'... LOL... As in we're an arcade game.

If they had half a clue that we're pushing simulation in tyre and suspension modelling beyond anything out there and that's before I get started on all that we simulate in the environment....

TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 04:20
The funniest news I heard yesterday was one online sim 'reddit style group' are considering removing us from their 'sim discussions'... LOL... As in we're an arcade game.

If they had half a clue that we're pushing simulation in tyre and suspension modelling beyond anything out there and that's before I get started on all that we simulate in the environment....

Clueless some of these "Die Hards".......

I mean, what would Rene Rast know about how a sim / racecar should feel?? LOL

Shogun613
14-10-2017, 05:04
I think it would be interesting (without giving away any trade secrets), to see some kind of mini documentary about the work that goes into making a sim title like PCars 2 - the tire model, how the suspension is modeled, how information about car performance is translated into the sim, etc... I'm pretty sure it would quiet down some of the know-it-alls out there, while providing nerds like myself some more technical stuff to devour...

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 05:07
I think it would be interesting (without giving away any trade secrets), to see some kind of mini documentary about the work that goes into making a sim title like PCars 2 - the tire model, how the suspension is modeled, how information about car performance is translated into the sim, etc... I'm pretty sure it would quiet down some of the know-it-alls out there, while providing nerds like myself some more technical stuff to devour...

I would love to see that but... I'm affraid you'll still get people to say "all that work for a sim-cade" and I'll have to go "Man on fire" with them :)

Eric Everfast
14-10-2017, 05:11
I love it. Was this captured on the PS4 as the OP's platform listing implies?

TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 05:15
I love it. Was this captured on the PS4 as the OP's platform listing implies?

Yes! Ps4 Pro to be precise :yes:

honespc
14-10-2017, 05:33
The funniest news I heard yesterday was one online sim 'reddit style group' are considering removing us from their 'sim discussions'... LOL... As in we're an arcade game.

If they had half a clue that we're pushing simulation in tyre and suspension modelling beyond anything out there and that's before I get started on all that we simulate in the environment....What advice could you give us now about suspension now?, stiffer rear or front?, the changing environmental grip conditions have always been the strongest part of project cars, now more with livetrack, but I'm still confused on the springs subject when it comes to pc2. I've always taken for granted that any car with medium or rear engine should go stiffer on the rear springs and dampers, but I'm starting to get a little confused about this in pc2.

And thanks for finally giving hot tyre pressures the importance they deserve. I can't remember how many times I talked about this in the pc1 forums, stating that hot pressures had literally no importance in that game, but just running very low pressures.

Ian Bell
14-10-2017, 05:36
What advice could you give us now about suspension now?, stiffer rear or front?, the changing environmental grip conditions have always been the strongest part of project cars, now more with livetrack, but I'm still confused on the springs subject when it comes to pc2. I've always taken for granted that any car with medium or rear engine should go stiffer on the rear springs and dampers, but I'm starting to get a little confused about this in pc2.

And thanks for finally giving hot tyre pressures the importance they deserve. I can't remember how many times I talked about this in the pc1 forums, stating that hot pressures had literally no importance in that game, but just running very low pressures.

It absolutely depends on the car and the weight distribution. If you go OEM on setups you should get as close to factory settings as possible.

David McKenna
14-10-2017, 05:48
Oh, it's definately a sim, as i cannot just pick up the controller and drive, i find it's like driving on ice, like Dirt Rally and Assetto Corsa..hard to to have fun at the mo, except for driving around ovals...but loving the details of the game PC raised the bar, PC2 has raised the bar even further.

honespc
14-10-2017, 06:03
@_Ian: Thanks Ian. Hadn't taken the weight transfer thing into consideration when adjusting springs actually. And yeah OEM setups make road cars feel just as amazing as they should, for the loose setup even on a wheel are extreme on road cars, specially while onboard rockets like the Porche Spyder.
____________________________________________________

For modern slicks targeted hot pressure in psi is 32, ok. Now need to know what the optimal hot pressure mark on psi is for road tyres such as the modern compounds represented in this game like the Pirelli medium and Hard Corsa tyres. The Pirelly softs..., I consider those hopeless lol. They actually behave just as bad as in pc1, to the point their behaviour seems borderline copy and pasted. On the other side of the coin the mediums and hards feel like magnificent glory at works, but what is their hot pressure target mark in psi then?

Thanks in advance.

E_Luckow
14-10-2017, 06:05
The funniest news I heard yesterday was one online sim 'reddit style group' are considering removing us from their 'sim discussions'... LOL... As in we're an arcade game.

If they had half a clue that we're pushing simulation in tyre and suspension modelling beyond anything out there and that's before I get started on all that we simulate in the environment....

Freud explains... or not.

Alan Dallas
14-10-2017, 06:19
Was looking at first post and remembered that Magic moment in pCARS2 @Indianapolis running turns 1-2 flat out in the Dallara. Track fully rubbered in, I could feel the tires get into that high speed slip/grip shutter that happens to real tires. My FFB wheel was vibrating my whole rig. I was like, "There it is, can't possibly get more real than that." I hadn't felt slick racing tires do that since the last time I ran around Willow Springs in a 911 Turbo going full tilt around Turn 2 on the racing line. Buddies car, not mine, he wasn't impressed I shredded on his new set of Hankook racing slicks. lol

Kebabfelix
14-10-2017, 08:35
I don't want to be a boring guy but do we know if this is just graphically represented ie no physics is involved in the tyres deforming that way.

Roger Prynne
14-10-2017, 08:59
I don't want to be a boring guy but do we know if this is just graphically represented ie no physics is involved in the tyres deforming that way.

Physics are definitely involved here.
You should see the work that went into the tyres, it's outstanding.

ChivasRx
14-10-2017, 14:16
242802

When I first took this photo I was pretty impressed with the compression on the left rear. Great work!

breyzipp
14-10-2017, 14:50
Oh, it's definately a sim, as i cannot just pick up the controller and drive, i find it's like driving on ice, like Dirt Rally and Assetto Corsa..hard to to have fun at the mo, except for driving around ovals...but loving the details of the game PC raised the bar, PC2 has raised the bar even further.

While some cars indeed are not "pick up the controller and drive", there are a whole lot of them that actually are. I've already driven everything from Road E, road F, road G + Ginetta Junior & GT5 and they are in fact very easy to just step into and get the hang of them with default settings. From the community events the indycar, the caterham and both LMP2's were fine as well. With the Renault 3.5 I did struggle a bit but that was also at the time of patch 1.03. I think it might come down to personal flavor as well, some cars feel great, some feel less great but that does not mean the controller handling is not good. Some cars like Group 5 are supposed to be brutal and hard to control, even with a wheel and after tuning. :)

This game has progressed massively since PCARS 1 for controller players. My advice would be to try a lot of cars with default settings and ignore the ones you don't like and focus on the ones you do like. If there is a car you don't like but you want to drive anyway (career progress) then try out the different pre-tunes (loose, stable, OEM), use the race engineer, ask for car-specific help here on the forum.

I play it on both XBox and PS4 Pro with controllers and some cars absolutely feel great! Granted I did play more of the slower than the faster cars but that's just me and my "zero to hero" mentality starting at the bottom of the food chain. :) Hence why I already tried all those slower road cars.

Aldo Zampatti
14-10-2017, 17:14
Extra credits for whoever can replicate with a PCARS2 Screenshot this Mercedes' shot of rosberg in suzuka:

https://cdn-2.motorsport.com/images/amp/6DVppVG2/s6/f1-japanese-gp-2016-nico-rosberg-mercedes-f1-amg.jpg

:) :P

Mike1304
14-10-2017, 17:16
Is it possible to set OEM setups as a default value for all cars where this is available?

Jussi Karjalainen
14-10-2017, 17:27
I felt the FWD cars had too much lift off oversteer, but after kindly being shown some interviews and comments from actual drivers....this is how it is supposed to be apparently.That's the problem with FWD cars, they have rear tyres only to keep the bumper off of the ground, you can't really get power oversteer on them, only power understeer, so how do you make them nimble enough? You make them oversteery when not on the throttle. Brake in mostly a straight line, then balance the car around the corner on the throttle. Not turning enough? Lift the throttle a bit. Turning too much? Floor the sucker! =)


What advice could you give us now about suspension now?, stiffer rear or front?, the changing environmental grip conditions have always been the strongest part of project cars, now more with livetrack, but I'm still confused on the springs subject when it comes to pc2. I've always taken for granted that any car with medium or rear engine should go stiffer on the rear springs and dampers, but I'm starting to get a little confused about this in pc2.

And thanks for finally giving hot tyre pressures the importance they deserve. I can't remember how many times I talked about this in the pc1 forums, stating that hot pressures had literally no importance in that game, but just running very low pressures.I highly recommend my calculator for that (check my signature), because absolute spring stiffness is not the same thing as what the wheel and car experiences. All cars have different suspensions where wheels move up and down differently, some even with big differences between roll (side to side) and heave (pure up and down) motion. On one car when the tyre moves up 5 cm the spring might compress 6 cm, on another it might only compress 3 cm, which immediately affect the effective spring rate of the car. So on one car you might need massively stiff front springs and soft rear springs, where as on another car that weighs the same with the same weight distribution you might need stiffer rear springs than front springs, and much softer springs overall to get the same effect. Gotta remember that the car will always in the end run on it's wheels and tyres, and it's there where things really matter.

Generally for racing purposes the end result of the springs ("spring/suspension frequency") should be a stiffer front end, which helps keep steering responsive while keeping the rear traction good and progressive. FWD cars are an exception since those have rear tyres only to keep the bumper from hitting the ground.

I talk about this stuff a lot in the Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator thread in the garage forums.


I don't want to be a boring guy but do we know if this is just graphically represented ie no physics is involved in the tyres deforming that way.The tyre flexing is directly driven by physics metrics. At times we have even spotted problematic tyres by just looking at what they're doing and comparing it to real life examples. =)
I think it would be interesting (without giving away any trade secrets), to see some kind of mini documentary about the work that goes into making a sim title like PCars 2 - the tire model, how the suspension is modeled, how information about car performance is translated into the sim, etc... I'm pretty sure it would quiet down some of the know-it-alls out there, while providing nerds like myself some more technical stuff to devour...That stuff was documented, kinda. It's called "World of Mass Development" and there have been two of them. =)
Is it possible to set OEM setups as a default value for all cars where this is available?Not TECHNICALLY, but since if you save a setup for a car it'll always load that, you can load up the OEM setup, then save it as a "new setup" and it'll get loaded for that car the next time you go to a track.

sp3ctor
14-10-2017, 18:34
[QUOTE=breyzipp;1396463 With the Renault 3.5 I did struggle a bit but that was also at the time of patch 1.03. I think it might come down to personal flavor as well, some cars feel great, some feel less great but that does not mean the controller handling is not good. Some cars like Group 5 are supposed to be brutal and hard to control, even with a wheel and after tuning. :) [/QUOTE]

To be fair, that Renault has always been terrifying but fun as hell.

John Hargreaves
14-10-2017, 19:04
I don't want to be a boring guy but do we know if this is just graphically represented ie no physics is involved in the tyres deforming that way.

From what I've seen over the last two years, it's the other way round; there is far more going on in the tyre physics, and the graphical representation is just a fraction of that. So yes we do know, no you aren't boring, and yes physics is very much involved.

Edit: iirc, it's also happening 600 times per second

TopAirspace
14-10-2017, 23:36
That's the problem with FWD cars, they have rear tyres only to keep the bumper off of the ground, you can't really get power oversteer on them, only power understeer, so how do you make them nimble enough? You make them oversteery when not on the throttle. Brake in mostly a straight line, then balance the car around the corner on the throttle. Not turning enough? Lift the throttle a bit. Turning too much? Floor the sucker! =)

I highly recommend my calculator for that (check my signature), because absolute spring stiffness is not the same thing as what the wheel and car experiences. All cars have different suspensions where wheels move up and down differently, some even with big differences between roll (side to side) and heave (pure up and down) motion. On one car when the tyre moves up 5 cm the spring might compress 6 cm, on another it might only compress 3 cm, which immediately affect the effective spring rate of the car. So on one car you might need massively stiff front springs and soft rear springs, where as on another car that weighs the same with the same weight distribution you might need stiffer rear springs than front springs, and much softer springs overall to get the same effect. Gotta remember that the car will always in the end run on it's wheels and tyres, and it's there where things really matter.

Generally for racing purposes the end result of the springs ("spring/suspension frequency") should be a stiffer front end, which helps keep steering responsive while keeping the rear traction good and progressive. FWD cars are an exception since those have rear tyres only to keep the bumper from hitting the ground.

I talk about this stuff a lot in the Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator thread in the garage forums.

The tyre flexing is directly driven by physics metrics. At times we have even spotted problematic tyres by just looking at what they're doing and comparing it to real life examples. =)That stuff was documented, kinda. It's called "World of Mass Development" and there have been two of them. =)Not TECHNICALLY, but since if you save a setup for a car it'll always load that, you can load up the OEM setup, then save it as a "new setup" and it'll get loaded for that car the next time you go to a track.

Wow thanks for all of that, What you said about the tyre flexing physics is honestly astounding!

This is the first sim Ive played were I'm really feeling compelled to make little tweaks here and there,

There are also just so many physics happening with the environment etc aswell that it creates a scenario where the same racecar always feels different from race to race!

I think this is new for so many of us (even the "Hardcore") that people are confusing it with handling inconsistencies or bugs, not the case people. We will be forever chasing the perfect setup on the same car here just as in real life :D

RC-5PO
15-10-2017, 00:08
Wow SMS, Incredible!

Last turn at Sugo Sportsland on lap 1 with tyres not yet up to temp / pressure,

Mind Blown.......

242734
242735
242736

Looks like it needs "patching." Haha:cool:

Roger Prynne
15-10-2017, 00:26
^ You're just blowing hot air :biggrin-new:

TopAirspace
15-10-2017, 01:24
This topic has really "blown out" into a comedy thread :cool:

Alan Dallas
15-10-2017, 02:43
^ You're just blowing hot air :biggrin-new:
What a 'deformed' opinion.


(I know, not the best adjective to use there :shame:)

Ian Bell
15-10-2017, 03:23
It's getting tyre-some now, I think some of you are rubbering it in.

TopAirspace
15-10-2017, 03:32
Yes, Rubbering up is always a good idea :cool:

(I went there) :p