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Apoov
14-10-2017, 16:59
Finally dared to start a single player career since most game braking bugs seem to be fixed. (At least I hope so.) So I started with the ginetta juniors. I've always considered myself a capable driver so I turned the difficulty up to 100. I quickly noticed that the AI was 2-3 secs. faster than me in qualifying no matter what track I was on. So either I'm just not as good as I think I am or I suck at setting up the car??? I just can't find any magic that will make my laptimes that fast.
Another annoying thing was that whenever the track gets wet the AI seems to slow down to a level that any driver would beat. I also hate the fact that the AI is being artificially been slowed down in the straights. What's up with that? That's just plain stupid!
I'll turn down the difficulty for now because I'm a bit lost here...
I'm just hoping that this does not come to a constant difficulty adjustmen frenzy when driving different classes in different conditions.

wadafaka
14-10-2017, 17:40
The difficulty currently varies a lot between cars, tracks and weather. You might struggle in one race and then win the next one by miles. So.. yeah. Recent patch upped the AI difficulty imo for dry conditions, especially cold and dry, the AI doesn't seem to care, but they are ridiculously slow in the wet sometimes.

Lars Rosenquist
15-10-2017, 08:25
AI difficulty was ramped up compared to the original Project CARS, so 100 is indeed quite fast.

Alex1996
15-10-2017, 11:14
I totally agree about wet conditions. It becomes too easy compared to dry conditions with every category. Then I have to say that AI is stronger on some tracks than others, for example I'm challenging with the first at Le Mans but I'm really far at Fuji, but it's also possible that I have to improve. I play with AI at 100, but when it rains it seems to play against AI at 60/70. However, AI on dry conditions is reasonable, maybe with a couple of exemptions. Probably the game needs a bit of rebalance.

(Please don't take this comment as a complaint, I'm really enjoying the game despite bugs and balance)

PeteUplink
15-10-2017, 11:43
The biggest issues for me with the AI are that they have ridiculous speed through high speed corners, they're too slow in slow speed corners and they drive like a bunch of grandmothers in the wet. It needs to be better balanced all round.

Doug914
15-10-2017, 17:14
General AI speed is now ramped up and should be a much closer match to the player as compared to your dry difficulty. Will be in the next patch.

Apoov
15-10-2017, 17:38
General AI speed is now ramped up and should be a much closer match to the player as compared to your dry difficulty. Will be in the next patch.


Just hoping that the speed the AI is driving on straights in wet conditions will be adjusted at some point. Now it's like they have suddenly lost 25% of the cars hp.
Also as I stated in my original post, the AI laptimes at least on the Ginetta jr. in dry conditions seem unachievable. At least for me 😀. Anyone else able to keep up with them? Don't remember what the first race was, but there I was close to 3 secs. slower and no idea how to get my car that much faster. AI seems to be unrealistically fast in the high speed corners. No way I could follow them. Sometimes when they attack you trying to get past in a braking zone, they seem to be able to brake so late that I could never pull this off. Like the rules of physics suddenly don't apply to them.

Martinbooker
15-10-2017, 17:54
The biggest issues for me with the AI are that they have ridiculous speed through high speed corners, they're too slow in slow speed corners and they drive like a bunch of grandmothers in the wet. It needs to be better balanced all round.

Agreed, Road America is a good example of this. The slow 90deg corners they are crazy slow, but the sweeping fast right hander after the carousel they carry insane speed through

Gsx31
15-10-2017, 19:21
I have a question concerning the IA.

Why from a start race, the IA always strikes my rear bumper

I may try to start as quickly as possible, I can make nothing to avoid be collided.
I was chosen by the IA of the same category, but he(it) starts so many(much) faster than me, than I have the impression that he(it) has an engine of rocket...

Then, once the time the thrown(launched) running(race), if I cut a chicane, the marshal wonder to allow to pass the cars that I doubled by cutting the chicane.
I slowed down for the IA whom I doubled pass in front of(come before) me, and there they stay behind me eternally without doubling me at low speed...

I adore this game, it is for me the best car game, but it would be good that every these problems are corrected

Purg
15-10-2017, 19:24
Also as I stated in my original post, the AI laptimes at least on the Ginetta jr. in dry conditions seem unachievable. At least for me ��. Anyone else able to keep up with them?

I won both series at 100%. Snetterton was the only track I didn't win - I still need to work on that last corner before the straight, it's got me baffled. I don't know if there's a difference between PS4 and PC but I see a lot of complaints about not being able to keep up in the Jr's from people on PS4. At no point did I think the Jr was carrying impossible speed through any corner - I was able to match them everywhere. I was also braking later on most corners.

The only corner that I've seen where I brake where they don't appear to is first right hander at Oulton Park. Coming out of the corner I carry more speed on the downhill, though. It seems impossible to me to take that in the Jr without braking..

Apoov
15-10-2017, 20:16
I won both series at 100%. Snetterton was the only track I didn't win - I still need to work on that last corner before the straight, it's got me baffled. I don't know if there's a difference between PS4 and PC but I see a lot of complaints about not being able to keep up in the Jr's from people on PS4. At no point did I think the Jr was carrying impossible speed through any corner - I was able to match them everywhere. I was also braking later on most corners.

The only corner that I've seen where I brake where they don't appear to is first right hander at Oulton Park. Coming out of the corner I carry more speed on the downhill, though. It seems impossible to me to take that in the Jr without braking..


Any major tune to the car? In fact I just tried Silverstone national and again the same thing... Was losing by ~3secs in the qualifying. Again, I'm not the fastest on the planet but I usually finish in the top3 in an online race. I started with PC1 when it was released so I'm not a rookie just tossing my car around. So could it really be that there's that big of a difference between the PC and consoles? Could someone post a qualifying lap time at Silverstone national so I can see if I'm just much worse than I thought? Or any track will do so I can try to get somewhere close to that time. If I'll lose again by 3seconds I know it's just my non-existing skills :

ECAR_Tracks
15-10-2017, 20:39
I'm not sure anymore whether AI are slow or player's car has too much grip in wet conditions. The car's handling changes few when track is wet ,in my opinion, so maybe the problem is not the AI code but our tyres coding.

Goooner1
15-10-2017, 20:53
I thought I was going mad :)

Glad I’ve found this thread.

Pre-patch, I had AI at 45, was winning easily, qualifying on pole, through Ginetta, Clio and almost a full RX season, was going to finish that then up the difficulty. Part way through the last RX round of the season, I lost my career and had to start again.

I was 3-5 seconds slower in the dry, no matter what the track, as soon as it started raining, I was 3-5 seconds faster than the AI.

GRadually decreasing the AI, I’m down to 25, I’m the first to admit I’m not a fast driver, but that seams really low.

Just finished a career race at Silverstone. First two laps, I was pretty much neck and neck with the AI, was some good racing (but should they be that fast at 25%?) then the rain came, further and further I pulled away with each passing lap, by he end I was about to start lapping people! Ended the race about a minute ahead of P2.

Can we have the AI back to pre-patch levels please?

Apoov
15-10-2017, 21:04
I thought I was going mad :)

Glad I’ve found this thread.

Pre-patch, I had AI at 45, was winning easily, qualifying on pole, through Ginetta, Clio and almost a full RX season, was going to finish that then up the difficulty. Part way through the last RX round of the season, I lost my career and had to start again.

I was 3-5 seconds slower in the dry, no matter what the track, as soon as it started raining, I was 3-5 seconds faster than the AI.

GRadually decreasing the AI, I’m down to 25, I’m the first to admit I’m not a fast driver, but that seams really low.

Just finished a career race at Silverstone. First two laps, I was pretty much neck and neck with the AI, was some good racing (but should they be that fast at 25%?) then the rain came, further and further I pulled away with each passing lap, by he end I was about to start lapping people! Ended the race about a minute ahead of P2.

Can we have the AI back to pre-patch levels please?

Ps4? (Edit) Just realized it's xbox :)
You just described exactly what I'm experiencing here.

Nats
15-10-2017, 21:55
I am starting to despair at this game. I see people complaining about the AI being slow in the wet and they are but then I play a race and I am skidding all over when the AI isnt and I am pulled over by the puddles and crash out when the Ai doesnt have any problems with the puddles at all. I just hate the new patch and want it back how it was even with slower cars, at least before the last patch I could play the game now I cant.

Doug914
15-10-2017, 22:13
I'm not sure anymore whether AI are slow or player's car has too much grip in wet conditions. The car's handling changes few when track is wet ,in my opinion, so maybe the problem is not the AI code but our tyres coding.

Its both. Some players car's rain tires are too good, and some arent good enough. Then the ai is *generally* on the slow side (relative to dry). I've been through quite a bit of re-tuning the wet AI and players speeds these last few days. Been a busy weekend :)

johnnyone
15-10-2017, 22:18
I hope SMS keep tuning the AI,so we can have some great racing,not saying the racing is bad,just the AI need to be balanced more.

Purg
15-10-2017, 23:34
Any major tune to the car?

Just the default loose setup.

Edit: Don't play Silverstone much but now I remember the race. I just tried then and I was getting spanked by the AI in the practice session. It's a track that's almost all straights so carrying maximum speed through the corners is paramount to a good lap time. Watching the AI on the first corner, he dabs the brake twice to get some bight to get around the corner where I was dropping down a cog which was losing me at least .5 seconds to the next corner.

I won that race because the 2nd half during my session, it started to rain - I think I was coming 2nd at the time.. otherwise I doubt I would have caught him. Whenever the rain comes, I end up being 3+ seconds quicker a lap than the AI.

Other tracks in the two Jr series are much more forgiving at 100%.

SunnySunday
16-10-2017, 00:25
Yeah wet weather AI is way too slow unfortunately, and snow we shouldn't even talk about. I just lapped AI (at 120 difficulty) on bathurst on a 8 laps race, and I wasn't even trying to go fast the last 5 laps. Had a lot of fun drifting in the snow though :)

Raysracing
16-10-2017, 02:17
Agreed, Road America is a good example of this. The slow 90deg corners they are crazy slow, but the sweeping fast right hander after the carousel they carry insane speed through

Copse corner. if they are behind me they pass me like Im standing still in any car I've tried at Silverstone.

Gloomy
16-10-2017, 02:23
So far the ginetta Jr, clio and group a feel pretty balanced to me atleast in dry, I can set the ai between 70-80 and have good challenging races. I started the group a at 65 as I was struggling, but then I got comfortable and now can be at 75. I can win but it's not an easy win, I'm fighting for it the whole way which is the way I like it.
Setting it at 80 would probably challenge me more but I hate coming in second haha!

Only issue is how terribly slow they go in the rain which I know they're working on.

gelfie
16-10-2017, 02:54
I'm doing the ginetta jr career and have the AI set to 101% strength (because thats just how accurate I am) and 65% Agression. I have to concentrate reasonably hard in practice and qually in order to set competitive times with them. But once race day comes, Im usually in 2nd or 3rd place after the first lap. Sometimes after the first corner.

Whatever skill they were showing in qualifying is just not there during the race, with the exception of the 3 lead cars or so.

Apoov
16-10-2017, 04:22
Judging by the comments it's starting to look like the PC and console versions are somewhat different. Looks like the PC gamers are coping with the AI even with 100% difficulty. For me on a PS4 the dry laptimes seem so far out of reach, which is clearly seen in the first race with the juniors. Are we playing the same game here? I'll post my laptimes and the AI's later today if I hopefully get time to do that.

Goooner1
16-10-2017, 07:06
Xbox, the race I did yesterday, poll at Silverstone in the Ginetta was around 1.16, best I could do was 1.18.

In the race itself, where I had two dry laps, at the end when it showed fastest laps, there was me and on AI on 1.16.920 and the fastest lap was 1.16.920, this was on 25% AI.

Qualifying, all the AI seemed to be on around 1.16 -1.17, I couldn't get past 1.18.

From the start, I was pretty much up to 6th (I think) by the first corner, then there seemed to be a clear gap between me with the first 2 to 3 AI and then a bigger gap to the rest, didn't seem like much of a reflection on the qualifying times. Then the rain start and they AI all stopped for a collective tea break :)

Here's the replay of that race, left all the timings on so you can see how close it is for the first couple of laps.


https://youtu.be/AK0hwAw8-ms

mister dog
16-10-2017, 07:31
Mentioned it in the other thread already, but on round 1 of the formula C career at Brno the AI are all a bunch of Senna's on my regular 80% difficulty setting.

My ego will be damaged now having to turn it down to 60 or something to be able to keep up with them in the dry :).

Lars Rosenquist
16-10-2017, 07:40
My ego will be damaged now having to turn it down to 60 or something to be able to keep up with them in the dry :).

Don't worry, you'll have plenty left. :P :D

Apoov
16-10-2017, 16:05
Ok. I just tried the quali at Donington national. Did something like 30 laps to get my time better and better. My best time was 1:27:28. I could go under the 27 with more practice. Anyways, the pole time was 1:24.8 which means that I should be able to drive 2.5 seconds faster. Just seems impossible without cutting the track. Again the AI seems to have grip that's out of this world. Someone please tell me that my laptimes are just low. Either way, I have no idea how to shave 2-3 secs off my times.

wadafaka
16-10-2017, 16:13
Ok. I just tried the quali at Donington national. Did something like 30 laps to get my time better and better. My best time was 1:27:28. I could go under the 27 with more practice. Anyways, the pole time was 1:24.8 which means that I should be able to drive 2.5 seconds faster. Just seems impossible without cutting the track. Again the AI seems to have grip that's out of this world. Someone please tell me that my laptimes are just low. Either way, I have no idea how to shave 2-3 secs off my times.What car?
PS: I feel the same way sometimes... I always start slow and then I shave off some time and bit by bit I improve until I hit a wall so to speak, where I can't get any faster no matter how much I try.

Apoov
16-10-2017, 16:20
What car?
PS: I feel the same way sometimes... I always start slow and then I shave off some time and bit by bit I improve until I hit a wall so to speak, where I can't get any faster no matter how much I try.

Still the ginetta jr.

wadafaka
16-10-2017, 16:25
I always check the leaderboards to make sure AI isn't pulling any ridiculous world records on low AI difficulty.
http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3100947921&vehicle=310900789
From what I can tell, 1:27 seems to be rather fast.. so can you tell us what the AI difficulty was set to? If it's over a 100% it seems about right.

Apoov
16-10-2017, 16:27
I always check the leaderboards to make sure AI isn't pulling any ridiculous world records on low AI difficulty.
http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3100947921&vehicle=310900789
From what I can tell, 1:27 seems to be rather fast.. so can you tell us what the AI difficulty was set to? If it's over a 100% it seems about right.

90% So according to that leaderboard I'm in the top20 and I'm destroyed by the AI. Clearly there is a lot of balancing to do here. Oh well, here comes my career to an end before something is fixed here. Back to online racing with the rammers ready to drop in my rank.
The thing is... I have such a love/hate relationship with this game. When all works as it should, it's the best thing around. Too bad it happens very rarely. Just hope the this game had been released when it's ready and done. Not like this. This is just PC1 all over again. The fact that fixes and balancing is done in the future does not comfort me much at the moment. :(

wadafaka
16-10-2017, 16:35
Well then they seem too fast imho, unless we don't have enough laptimes on the leaderboard yet to make a good comparison. Keep in mind though, that those were set in ideal conditions!
I agree about the insane grip they seem to have sometimes... It was the same in PCars1, just have to accept that you can't follow their driving line and get creative I suppose.

Haiden
16-10-2017, 16:51
Agreed, Road America is a good example of this. The slow 90deg corners they are crazy slow, but the sweeping fast right hander after the carousel they carry insane speed through

Thank you! I thought it was just mean. I was racing there Sunday afternoon, and just couldn't understand how they were running up to my rear to quickly. At first, I thought I was just not used to the track, but after a while, I was pretty sure I was hitting that corner right. It really ruins the tracks, because they're freakishly slow in so many areas, but then take that corner like it was a straight...LOL.

Haiden
16-10-2017, 16:55
I always check the leaderboards to make sure AI isn't pulling any ridiculous world records on low AI difficulty.
http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3100947921&vehicle=310900789
From what I can tell, 1:27 seems to be rather fast.. so can you tell us what the AI difficulty was set to? If it's over a 100% it seems about right.

Not really helpful, because the AI's issues aren't consistent. They will be extremely slow in some areas/corners and then wicked fast in others. So, in the end, the lap time may seem in line with RL pace, but only because the pluses and minuses balanced out across the lap. Road America, as someone already mentioned, is a good example. The AI could be a full second and half slower across 90% of the track, and then make that up in that one high speed sweep. If you look at the end lap time, you'd never know how poorly the AI was performing at that track.

Apoov
16-10-2017, 17:43
Just had one more go at Donington... I made it to 1:26:56. Still 2seconds to the pole. Not much more tenths that I can pull out of this car.
Forgot to mention that I turned assists off. With the authentic settings it's just impossible to throw your car into a fast corner to maintain the speed through out. I should be able to reach reasonable lap times with authentic assists, since that would be "authentic".

sirio994
16-10-2017, 17:57
In Project Cars i was playing between 70 and 80, now i struggle to keep up pace with 40 at times. I'm wandering how non-average players can play the game...

gregc
16-10-2017, 18:06
In Project Cars i was playing between 70 and 80, now i struggle to keep up pace with 40 at times. I'm wandering how non-average players can play the game...

Any particular car (or class)/track combo?

daohaus
16-10-2017, 18:15
I'm doing the Super Trofeo and the last track I did was Monza and I was seriously a good 4 seconds from the fastest car. The AI just seems to be able to carry so much more speed through the corners. Really frustrating to follow them on track and when I come up on one of the lesmos they just walk away

sirio994
16-10-2017, 19:11
Any particular car (or class)/track combo?

Mostly with open wheels and LMP1. But this has a lot to do with forceback (G29/PS4). I suppose devs are working on it.

It's hard to tell for sure with the combination G29-PS4-Open wheels/LMP1.

Le Mans in general and ovals are the most objective. It's crazy what the AI can do on ovals expecially with cold tyres...

Doug914
16-10-2017, 19:21
Thank you! I thought it was just mean. I was racing there Sunday afternoon, and just couldn't understand how they were running up to my rear to quickly. At first, I thought I was just not used to the track, but after a while, I was pretty sure I was hitting that corner right. It really ruins the tracks, because they're freakishly slow in so many areas, but then take that corner like it was a straight...LOL.

This track has been re done for the next patch. Its over all a bit faster, but makes more sense corner speed wise.

Goooner1
16-10-2017, 19:37
In Project Cars i was playing between 70 and 80, now i struggle to keep up pace with 40 at times. I'm wandering how non-average players can play the game...

I’m no better than average, if that, I had to turn the AI down to 25 to get any sort of competitive racing. Pre-patch I could do ok at 45.

mister dog
16-10-2017, 19:54
I'm doing the Super Trofeo and the last track I did was Monza and I was seriously a good 4 seconds from the fastest car. The AI just seems to be able to carry so much more speed through the corners. Really frustrating to follow them on track and when I come up on one of the lesmos they just walk away
First round of the Super Trofeo at Algarve they had too much grip in T1 and some of the fast sweepers. So the other races it's more of the same then it seems... I'll really have to lower it to 60 overall and see what gives.

It's a bit of a general trend no? Patch notes say: " Various AI behavioural and race line improvements." so that must have sped them up overall in the dry since 2.0?

Haiden
16-10-2017, 20:44
This track has been re done for the next patch. Its over all a bit faster, but makes more sense corner speed wise.

That makes sense. I think that was the only spot where I noticed them being exceptionally fast. Other places, particularly the slower corners they were way to cautious. Hope it improves. I like that track.

SLAPE
16-10-2017, 20:53
I’m no better than average, if that, I had to turn the AI down to 25 to get any sort of competitive racing. Pre-patch I could do ok at 45.

Same for me, I was racing on 60-70% on PC1 but now on PC2 25-30 track dependent. To me the skill setting should not be effecting the drivers on a whole per track but individual drivers on different tracks, after all its a skill setting not a speed setting, some drivers love certain tracks & will thrive but on other tracks suck but here we have the whole grid changing its skill to suit the track rather than random individuals. Changing up/down the skill setting for different tracks (in any mode}is slightly annoying.

Goooner1
16-10-2017, 21:09
Definitely. Pre-patch, I could set the AI and forget about it, some tracks I did better than others, but that’s to be expected.

Cholton82
16-10-2017, 21:16
On PCars 1 I ran with Ai at aroun 85-90 , I've had to lower it to around 75 on PCars 2 and I tend to be around the top 5 sometimes being super consistent and no mistakes I make the podium or win but I like that . Ai need better balancing in the wet and slow corners but it will improve in time .

sirio994
16-10-2017, 21:25
Which aggressiveness settings are you using? The game is still playable with the AI (the range seems to be lowered by 20-30 points at the moment). But i'm really struggling findung a good balance with aggressiveness. Even at 15 they keep doing crazy things...

klysm
16-10-2017, 22:11
In Silverstone AI is driving the fast right turns after the straights at insane speeds even in the cold.
They are also crazy fast at the fast corners in Sakito.

So my guess is, that AI has no real tire/grip simulation and is kind of "cheating" there.

daohaus
16-10-2017, 22:25
First round of the Super Trofeo at Algarve they had too much grip in T1 and some of the fast sweepers. So the other races it's more of the same then it seems... I'll really have to lower it to 60 overall and see what gives.

It's a bit of a general trend no? Patch notes say: " Various AI behavioural and race line improvements." so that must have sped them up overall in the dry since 2.0?

based on the changelog one would think that they did get faster, I backed my AI down to 60 for this series and they're just killing me. Sweepers and fast right/lefts they have way more grip than I do.

For example: at Monza the Prima Lesmo - AI barely taps the brakes and is able to hit the apex. Seconda Lesmo you see a brief bit of brake lights and they are able to take that corner at a good pace without having to go too far up the kerbing on the exit. Forget about Silverstone, they just kill me at Turn 1 (Abbey) and Turn 9 (Copse) they're able to hold a much faster speed entering where I have to back off quite a bit

On a side note though, when I play quick races I seem to be more on par with the AI, I raced them at Spa and the Red Bull Ring in the GT3R and the 488GTE car and I was able to keep up with them, make successful passes and make my way up the grid during the course of the race. I need to check the AI on the quick races vs the career to see if they're the same

mister dog
16-10-2017, 22:31
based on the changelog one would think that they did get faster, I backed my AI down to 60 for this series and they're just killing me. Sweepers and fast right/lefts they have way more grip than I do.

For example: at Monza the Prima Lesmo - AI barely taps the brakes and is able to hit the apex. Seconda Lesmo you see a brief bit of brake lights and they are able to take that corner at a good pace without having to go too far up the kerbing on the exit. Forget about Silverstone, they just kill me at Turn 1 (Abbey) and Turn 9 (Copse) they're able to hold a much faster speed entering where I have to back off quite a bit
Yeah that's more or less the vibe I'm getting too, tried a career race at 60% now (-20) and I was able to compete with the AI finally but speed wise they have alien grip in the faster corners and go granny in the slower ones.

gregc
16-10-2017, 23:22
Mostly with open wheels and LMP1. But this has a lot to do with forceback (G29/PS4). I suppose devs are working on it.

It's hard to tell for sure with the combination G29-PS4-Open wheels/LMP1.

Le Mans in general and ovals are the most objective. It's crazy what the AI can do on ovals expecially with cold tyres...

OK, was hoping I could contribute but LM, ovals and open wheel cars is a long way from what I enjoy driving. Best of luck with it :)

sirio994
16-10-2017, 23:57
In Silverstone AI is driving the fast right turns after the straights at insane speeds even in the cold.
They are also crazy fast at the fast corners in Sakito.

So my guess is, that AI has no real tire/grip simulation and is kind of "cheating" there.

It's really hard to avoid crashes when playing wheel to wheel. The AI is too much fast on high speed corners and breakes 50 meters earlier than it should. They try crazy moves on high speed corners when i'm in front and i have to lock up every time on slow ones to avoid hitting them.

Porche curves in LeMans are crazy like S1 in Sakitto and S3 in Silverstone. Really hard to play wheel to wheel in these conditions...it's all about avoiding them on high breaking zones and praying they won't try crazy moves in fast sequences...

But nothing beats fast corners after straights...they can just tap the pedal and back full throttle like nothing even at lower levels...

Schnizz58
17-10-2017, 00:13
@Apoov, My experience is pretty limited (just got the game on Saturday) but it's similar to yours. I'm know I'm not super fast but I'm competitive in PC1 at 80% so I'm not a noob either. I'm 1.5-2 seconds off the pace in the one race I've tried so far (Oulton). The one thing I've noticed is that my tires aren't heating up like I'd expect. Did you notice that too? I started with the stable setup and have tweaked a little from there (tire pressures are at minimum). Maybe I'll give the loose setup a try.

Cholton82
17-10-2017, 07:16
I have aggression set at 65 , I find this to be ok .

Keena
17-10-2017, 07:26
@Apoov, My experience is pretty limited (just got the game on Saturday) but it's similar to yours. I'm know I'm not super fast but I'm competitive in PC1 at 80% so I'm not a noob either. I'm 1.5-2 seconds off the pace in the one race I've tried so far (Oulton). The one thing I've noticed is that my tires aren't heating up like I'd expect. Did you notice that too? I started with the stable setup and have tweaked a little from there (tire pressures are at minimum). Maybe I'll give the loose setup a try.

The tyre physics are different from PC1. If you run at minimum pressures you'll not get the desired reaction. I only know about formula rookie pressures in detail but I used real world pressures as a datum and that worked really well. Key point is that minimum pressures is no longer a reliable strategy.

Apoov
17-10-2017, 07:28
@Apoov, My experience is pretty limited (just got the game on Saturday) but it's similar to yours. I'm know I'm not super fast but I'm competitive in PC1 at 80% so I'm not a noob either. I'm 1.5-2 seconds off the pace in the one race I've tried so far (Oulton). The one thing I've noticed is that my tires aren't heating up like I'd expect. Did you notice that too? I started with the stable setup and have tweaked a little from there (tire pressures are at minimum). Maybe I'll give the loose setup a try.

I'm using the loose setup with minimum tire pressure and some other minor tweaks. The tires are heating up quite slowly but I think that's just a minor problem at least with the ginettas. The bigest problem as can be seen from all the comments is that the AI is driving most of the high speed corners unrealistically fast and almost on rails.
The AI is not using the same physics as the player which is understandable since the physics are so calculation heavy. It's just sometimes weird looking behaviour when you're going sideways tires smoking and the AI drives in front of you glued to the road.

Keena
17-10-2017, 07:29
I'm using the loose setup with minimum tire pressure and some other minor tweaks. The tires are heating up quite slowly but I think that's just a minor problem at least with the ginettas. The bigest problem as can be seen from all the comments is that the AI is driving most of the high speed corners unrealistically fast and almost on rails.
The AI is not using the same physics as the player which is understandable since the physics are so calculation heavy. It's just sometimes weird looking behaviour when you're going sideways tires smoking and the AI drives in front of you glued to the road.


The tyre physics are different from PC1. If you run at minimum pressures you'll not get the desired reaction. I only know about formula rookie pressures in detail but I used real world pressures as a datum and that worked really well. Key point is that minimum pressures is no longer a reliable strategy.
+1 on the ai. I believe it's being adjusted on a track by track basis and it's helpful for the devs for specific track/corner descriptions to be included.

Apoov
17-10-2017, 08:45
The tyre physics are different from PC1. If you run at minimum pressures you'll not get the desired reaction. I only know about formula rookie pressures in detail but I used real world pressures as a datum and that worked really well. Key point is that minimum pressures is no longer a reliable strategy.
+1 on the ai. I believe it's being adjusted on a track by track basis and it's helpful for the devs for specific track/corner descriptions to be included.

I know it's helpful for shure, but maybe it's not our responsibility to develop the game. I bought the game to play it. Not test it and find/report bugs!!! I know that this community is helpful and keen on helping out, but it should not be like this. It would be ok if I was a beta tester or payd just a fraction of the price. Paying for a full complete game I expect a full complete game. I did not sign up for a beta tester.

Keena
17-10-2017, 08:47
Yeah I know. I'm just trying to help, doing my bit to keep the cart on the road and moving forward ;)

Maximum11
17-10-2017, 10:10
Hi everyone,

I'm currently at 55 Difficulty 70 aggressiveness in the Formula C championship. I'm about 1.5 seconds faster than the AI in best laps so I could put more difficulty, but driving at the limit is really difficult and I keep a good buffer to not go wide too often. I would like to see the AI struggling a bit more, especially with tires temps. I noticed at Donington in cold conditions my tires were perfect for the first lap (could put the AI 1.5 seconds behind by the end of the lap), then temps dropped by 15/20 degrees (is that even possible?) and then in the last laps of a 5 laps race, temps got a bit higher because the sun showed up. The AI in the other hand clearly has not felt these changes. So despite being clearly faster that AI (pole, best lap etc), it really was a struggle to claim the win because for most of the race my car was at 70% of performance and the cars behind were still at their peak level.


In rainy conditions the AI level changes, but it doesn't seem it does in dry conditions. I would suggest to index the AI skills on the track or outside temperature (real tire management is too heavy program-wise I suppose). Simply if it's cold conditions the AI should be at 80% of the difficulty level we have chosen. If it gets sunny it should be at 100% etc. We players experience drops of performance sometimes in races that need to be reflected to AI one way or another. This is a simple solution to put into place, isn't it?

Zotoss
17-10-2017, 10:14
So far I noticed that the AI difficulty is not consistent among different cars' categories and even among different tracks within the same category.

I am currently setting AI at 60% and Aggressivity at 60%, and testing specifically on one category (GT3).

At Willow Springs / Mojave / Laguna Seca / Barcellona I can battle equally, racing on same lap times as AI in the first positions.

At Monza or Brands Hatch there is no way to battle equally, the AI is literally eating me and driving 2-3 seconds fastest per lap.

I am not sure if this discrepancy is related to a different handling of the controller based on different tracks, or to a balance issue.

Goooner1
17-10-2017, 10:33
There definitely does seem to be a difference between the PC and console AI

SLAPE
17-10-2017, 17:21
Which aggressiveness settings are you using? The game is still playable with the AI (the range seems to be lowered by 20-30 points at the moment). But i'm really struggling findung a good balance with aggressiveness. Even at 15 they keep doing crazy things...

I'm running 68% aggression, their not to slow(cautious) on corners, will block mostly & will try & pull off the odd daring move which sometimes works or they spin off/crash out. My skill as I've said before ranges from 25-30 depending on track or class/car in some cases.

Schnizz58
17-10-2017, 18:47
I'm using the loose setup with minimum tire pressure and some other minor tweaks. The tires are heating up quite slowly but I think that's just a minor problem at least with the ginettas. The bigest problem as can be seen from all the comments is that the AI is driving most of the high speed corners unrealistically fast and almost on rails.
Yeah we knew going in that the AI would probably have to be adjusted and that turned out to be true. It was the same in PC1. Let's give them a chance and see what they come up with.


The AI is not using the same physics as the player which is understandable since the physics are so calculation heavy. It's just sometimes weird looking behaviour when you're going sideways tires smoking and the AI drives in front of you glued to the road.
It's understandable from a computational point of view but it causes problems in the game play. In PC1, it seemed like a lot of the issues in career mode traced back to the inequality between player and AI. If the AI cars do not use the same physics as the player's car, then they should at least behave as though they do.


I know it's helpful for shure, but maybe it's not our responsibility to develop the game. I bought the game to play it. Not test it and find/report bugs!!! I know that this community is helpful and keen on helping out, but it should not be like this. It would be ok if I was a beta tester or payd just a fraction of the price. Paying for a full complete game I expect a full complete game. I did not sign up for a beta tester.
I don't blame you for feeling that way but here's how I look at it. I'm not going to start my career until things are pretty stable, i.e., the AI are behaving reasonably well, issues with the tire model are worked out, the UI is solid, etc. So in the meantime, I may as well help with whatever time I have available (which frankly isn't much at the moment) and in the process maybe learn something about the game.


the AI is literally eating me
I'm guessing that this isn't actually true. If it is, then this game is much more immersive than I've given it credit for.

g33k hack3rs
17-10-2017, 19:00
AI difficulty is even more confusing since we all have different tracks at which we perform above or below expectations. There are definitely a few tracks that I know much better than others and know I can do well while at others I just haven't figured it out. Not sure how this can be done objectively but even the same AI in the same car/track combo will have some variance through the field. 100AI is probably something like 90AI to 100AI so not all are driving at the exact same capabilities.

Maybe comparing your performance to TT times for the same car/track combo might indicate where the AI is wildly different from expected and where some of it can be down to how we perform different from one track to another. Don't want to sabotage the discussion but there needs to be some objective way to evaluate AI performance and I know my lap times isn't always of the same caliber at all tracks.

Goooner1
17-10-2017, 19:06
To be honest, pre-patch I didn’t have any issues with the AI, I could leave it set at 45 globally and leave it, got some good races around my own ability, won a few, also was slow on a few. Since the patch I’ve had to drop the AI to 25, some tracks I can hold my own, some I’m way behind, but whatever the track, when it rains, I leave the AI for dead.

I’d be perfectly happy to go back to the pre-patch AI, had no issues with that part of the game at all

Algarde86
17-10-2017, 19:55
At Monza or Brands Hatch there is no way to battle equally, the AI is literally eating me and driving 2-3 seconds fastest per lap.



Brands Hatch and Monza, with the GT3, are absurd. I must play at 20-25% to fight for the victory. But racing in Brands Hatch in other categories and cars is more easy. I can win with advantage of 10/15 sec in 5 laps with the AI at 50 driving a Ferrari Daytona

Goooner1
17-10-2017, 23:03
Just done Donnington, comfortable second place, no real pressure from third, but first was out of sight by lap 2.

Then did Knockhill, same set up, I was 3 seconds faster than the AI in qualifying, easily won, was out of sight after half of lap one.

Snetterton, back to being comfortably second, but couldn’t keep up with first.

koly
17-10-2017, 23:12
Just done Donnington, comfortable second place, no real pressure from third, but first was out of sight by lap 2.

Then did Knockhill, same set up, I was 3 seconds faster than the AI in qualifying, easily won, was out of sight after half of lap one.

Snetterton, back to being comfortably second, but couldn’t keep up with first.

yes, i saw that with new patch, it's not bad, AI is more challenging, now i have to play at 15% to challenge AI :)

seb02
18-10-2017, 12:54
yes, i saw that with new patch, it's not bad, AI is more challenging, now i have to play at 15% to challenge AI :)

PS4 standard with a controller.
15% you're lucky, me on the ovals (Indy, Daytona, Texas and Monza) with the Ford Fusion even with a 0% AI, I can not seem to make their time. It is very frustrating. This has been submitted to devs, so I hope this will be fixed in the next patch.

Goooner1
18-10-2017, 13:00
Agreed. I didn’t think there was too much wrong with the AI before the patch.

g33k hack3rs
18-10-2017, 14:59
Not sure if it was a result of changes in the patch or just car and/or class related but prior to the patch in GT5 I struggled much more to beat the AI. After the patch I continued career in GT4 and even after bumping the AI up by another 5 points they were still 2 to over 4 seconds off my pace on most tracks. That is inclusive of Practice/Quali/Race. In most cases I dominated all portions of the career events whereas in GT5 prior to the patch I rarely was on pace with the AI in practice and usually ended up towards top 5 in Quali and Race.