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St4r8ucK
15-10-2017, 07:21
Hello folks! I wrote this setup guide back in the days when GTR 2 was the simulation of reference. I still use it today with Project Cas 2. This guide is actually an Excel sheet describing a strategy to build your own setup from scratch. Step by step, it explains how to setup each component of the car to obtain a setup perfectly suited to your driving style. It is available in French, English, Spanish and Italian thanks to the contribution of community members. I plan to release the 1.00 for Project Cars 2 as some items are not applicable as is. I give you the link to the present release. Hope it will help some of you developping their own setup as it is basically a game in the game...

http://doitoliv.free.fr/GTR2_Guide_Setup_LmS_0.62b_MULTILANGUAGE.xls

242874

For those who wonder, 80% of the knowledge in this guide comes from this very old but very well made manual that was coming along Grand Prix Legend :

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St4r8ucK / LmS

blinkngone
15-10-2017, 21:07
Hello folks! I wrote this setup guide back in the days when GTR 2 was the simulation of reference. I still use it today with Project Cas 2. This guide is actually an Excel sheet describing a strategy to build your own setup from scratch. Step by step, it explains how to setup each component of the car to obtain a setup perfectly suited to your driving style. It is available in French, English, Spanish and Italian thanks to the contribution of community members. I plan to release the 1.00 for Project Cars 2 as some items are not applicable as is. I give you the link to the present release. Hope it will help some of you developping their own setup as it is basically a game in the game...



For those who wonder, 80% of the knowledge in this guide comes from this very old but very well made manual that was coming along Grand Prix Legend :


St4r8ucK / LmS

Hi! Thank you very much St4r8ucK. This will be very helpful to those who want to get more involved in the tuning of their cars.

drizzit
15-10-2017, 22:09
Looks really interesting for a tuning noob like me, will have to do a thorough read-through of it, thank you :)

- S i m o n -
15-10-2017, 22:39
Thanks for posting this, it's excellent.

Marlborofranz
16-10-2017, 05:53
Thanks from my side as well! And finally I see the guy who created this Excel-Sheet. ;)

I've been using this 6 years ago when I first started creating own setups, however I haven't been too successful yet. (Not your fault, though! ;))

Going to be handy to see if I can improve things on PCars 2.

St4r8ucK
16-10-2017, 08:24
Thank you for your feedback guys. Must say that I'm estimating the interest of the community before starting a deep refresh of the file to adapt it to Project Cars 2.

For those who wonder how to use Telemetry in Project Cars 2, I urge them to try vrHive from MickeyTT as this tool is almost as powerful as the MoTeC was for GTR 2!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqHPBICCSLA

jimmyb_84
16-10-2017, 08:37
Thank you for your feedback guys. Must say that I'm estimating the interest of the community before starting a deep refresh of the file to adapt it to Project Cars 2.

For those who wonder how to use Telemetry in Project Cars 2, I urge them to try vrHive from MickeyTT as this tool is almost as powerful as the MoTeC was for GTR 2!


I've been using Vrhive for a while now and I'm currently using it with PC2 with no issues, it's brilliant records all my sessions and most importantly lap times with telemetry.

However I'm yet to add video as above I need to try that once my PS4 uploads to you tube (no idea why not)

St4r8ucK
16-10-2017, 09:01
You can use a simple USB key to transfer video. I had the same issue (service unavailable, try again later) and it was solved by going to the external services option menu in order to rebind my PSN and Youtube accounts.

Ramjet
16-10-2017, 10:50
Nice work and look forward to reading your pC2 update at some stage. Cheers :D

ApexSight
16-10-2017, 12:54
Really looking forward to reading the pcars 2 version too !

Marlborofranz
17-10-2017, 08:43
Thank you for your feedback guys. Must say that I'm estimating the interest of the community before starting a deep refresh of the file to adapt it to Project Cars 2.

For those who wonder how to use Telemetry in Project Cars 2, I urge them to try vrHive from MickeyTT as this tool is almost as powerful as the MoTeC was for GTR 2!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqHPBICCSLA

Me, too! Actually this would be amazing, having your GTR2 setup guide adapted to Project CARS 2.

Especially maybe some explanation as what is more important: Changing the tyre preassures based on what the manufactorer advices, or change it so that the temperatures on the contact patch are properly, or change it so the tyre reaches its optimum temperature at all...

These are some small pitfalls I struggle with.

Dynomight Motorsports
17-10-2017, 13:30
Thank you for your feedback guys. Must say that I'm estimating the interest of the community before starting a deep refresh of the file to adapt it to Project Cars 2.

For those who wonder how to use Telemetry in Project Cars 2, I urge them to try vrHive from MickeyTT as this tool is almost as powerful as the MoTeC was for GTR 2!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqHPBICCSLA

Does Hive work with PCars 2 on Xbox? I had it for PCars 1.

Benkid
17-10-2017, 21:09
I was literally about to start a post asking where to start when it comes to tuning. This is exactly what I was after. Look forward to reading the new adaption.

davidt33
18-10-2017, 03:02
Keeping eyes peeled. Hoping to see pcars2 version. cheers bro.

Y22 Rydr
19-10-2017, 00:09
[QUOTE=Does Hive work with PCars 2 on Xbox? I had it for PCars 1.[/QUOTE]

Yes it does.

Mr. Bonetti
20-10-2017, 13:43
Hoping to see this adaptation too! Great Job!

drizzit
20-10-2017, 14:07
Any other telemetry program that works on windows 7 other then vrhive?

I have used it before on PC1 but somewhere along the line it stopped working when logged in as an administrator account on windows 7 and I dont really feel like cluttering up my computer with a second user just for this :(

Rodgerzzz
21-10-2017, 23:16
This is a brilliant guide, helped me set up a car for a league race tonight around Daytona. Followed it step by step for 3 hours, had an awesome feeling car and ended up winning the race! Thanks for sharing :D

JuZ
06-11-2017, 13:33
Interesting.

Shinyrobot
10-12-2017, 00:03
this is saved and much appreciated explains a few settings that i can refer back to.

Slowissmoothsmoothisfast
28-12-2017, 18:41
Good guide I used it on pcars 1 when it came out. One thing I found when doing setups was that it wasnt always fastest in terms of lap times to shorten the gearing to be using all the revs at the end of the straight. Drive ability out of corners and being able to get on the power early with a less peaky delivery more than made up for the extra few mph on the straights. Track dependant of course but it can be worth a few tenths on track like Barcelona.

Wannabe1
29-12-2017, 13:58
this is great for a quick reference! Thanks,

jake92
31-12-2017, 15:15
Good guide I used it on pcars 1 when it came out. One thing I found when doing setups was that it wasnt always fastest in terms of lap times to shorten the gearing to be using all the revs at the end of the straight. Drive ability out of corners and being able to get on the power early with a less peaky delivery more than made up for the extra few mph on the straights. Track dependant of course but it can be worth a few tenths on track like Barcelona.

Exactly. I tried with a shorter gearing in a GTE Ferrari, and hit the rev limiter just at the end of the straight, but the exit of many corners were unstable due to the short gearing. The default gearing for that track was definitely the fastest for me, even though i wasn't close to the rev limiter on the straights.

poirqc
02-01-2018, 02:35
Thank you for your feedback guys. Must say that I'm estimating the interest of the community before starting a deep refresh of the file to adapt it to Project Cars 2.

For those who wonder how to use Telemetry in Project Cars 2, I urge them to try vrHive from MickeyTT as this tool is almost as powerful as the MoTeC was for GTR 2!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqHPBICCSLA

Is it possible to find wheel lock up ? The last time I tried vrHive, I wasn't able to find it.

Thanks,

GrimeyDog
02-01-2018, 16:45
I find the Default set ups in Most cars are Not bad at all for Me...once i get used to how the Car Drives Naturally i can get Really Good Laps provided i know the track.... For Me Knowing the Track is the Key. I do see the advantage of tweeking the Gears per track though but im just too lazy to do it but once i start getting beat bad enough im all in:p

Olijke Poffer
02-01-2018, 17:23
I find the Default set ups in Most cars are Not bad at all for Me...once i get used to how the Car Drives Naturally i can get Really Good Laps provided i know the track.... For Me Knowing the Track is the Key. I do see the advantage of tweeking the Gears per track though but im just too lazy to do it but once i start getting beat bad enough im all in:p
Lol, same over here.. only changing tires, fuel and steering etc. But that is just a minor setup.

poirqc
02-01-2018, 19:21
I find the Default set ups in Most cars are Not bad at all for Me...once i get used to how the Car Drives Naturally i can get Really Good Laps provided i know the track.... For Me Knowing the Track is the Key. I do see the advantage of tweeking the Gears per track though but im just too lazy to do it but once i start getting beat bad enough im all in:p

You, lazy...

With the amount of time you spent in the FFB menus... a fraction of that dedicated to setup would've made you a setup guru! :p :D

GrimeyDog
02-01-2018, 21:03
You, lazy...

With the amount of time you spent in the FFB menus... a fraction of that dedicated to setup would've made you a setup guru! :p :D

one of the reasons i don't tune is because I'm a Auto Mechanic by trade <-- I just don't do it for a living anymore --> But what i have found is that for Me because i know the way these settings really work that i cant separate Equating the virtual in car settings to the effect that its supposed to have in real life and often they don't --> or i have to use sooo much of this get the desired effect and sooo little of that but in IRL if you tuned a car this way the car would be undriveable. So at best car tuning is trial and error with no exact science to it because EX: IRL lets say 1 full bolt turn = 10lbs of Roll Bar stiffness, Damping, Rebound etc what ever Now how do i equate how much impact 1 click on any given setting has??? there is no formula to say 1 click damper is = to X + or - force applied so its all just trial and error --> trust Me the Car tuning part is by far Much worse than the FFB part because you are dealing with many more settings that have No definitive equatable +/- force value and the change in feel is very very subtle unless change is made in large amounts ---> bottom line is The stock car suspension feels good to Me Nope I refuse to start Suspension Tweeking because i wont stop until i figure it out 100% and Pcars3 will be out by then --> OCD:stupid: LOL

Well Maybe i will Tweek 1 car --> Gt3 Porsche maybe:boxing: Hmmmm LOL

menos
03-01-2018, 02:25
one of the reasons i don't tune is because I'm a Auto Mechanic by trade <-- I just don't do it for a living anymore --> But what i have found is that for Me because i know the way these settings really work that i cant separate Equating the virtual in car settings to the effect that its supposed to have in real life and often they don't --> or i have to use sooo much of this get the desired effect and sooo little of that but in IRL if you tuned a car this way the car would be undriveable. So at best car tuning is trial and error with no exact science to it because EX: IRL lets say 1 full bolt turn = 10lbs of Roll Bar stiffness, Damping, Rebound etc what ever Now how do i equate how much impact 1 click on any given setting has??? there is no formula to say 1 click damper is = to X + or - force applied so its all just trial and error --> trust Me the Car tuning part is by far Much worse than the FFB part because you are dealing with many more settings that have No definitive equatable +/- force value and the change in feel is very very subtle unless change is made in large amounts ---> bottom line is The stock car suspension feels good to Me Nope I refuse to start Suspension Tweeking because i wont stop until i figure it out 100% and Pcars3 will be out by then --> OCD:stupid: LOL

Well Maybe i will Tweek 1 car --> Gt3 Porsche maybe:boxing: Hmmmm LOL
Exactly this is the reason why setup tuning in PC2 feels so disconnected.
A direct feedback of what you are doing is missing entirely (additional to it’s setup values seemingly being taken out of thin air).

This is the reason why in PC2 I tune only less than a handful of very small tweaks at a time and EXLUSIVELY those I feel a problem with after having had extensive laps on warm tires.

Assetto Corsa is one of the simulators that get car setups right the most.
Kunos made a good attempt of getting setup values for each individual car into a believable range and best of all you are not wrenching blindfolded but you get a live suspension alignment measurement at all times - those arbitrary toe angles you set up on the car using X springs and Y ride height will will be displayed for you with their actual values with the car sitting on the ground.

Add to that the ability to use extensive third party telemetry and you really setup precisely with cause and effect by the exact portion on the exact component you need.

GrimeyDog
03-01-2018, 02:54
Exactly this is the reason why setup tuning in PC2 feels so disconnected.
A direct feedback of what you are doing is missing entirely (additional to it’s setup values seemingly being taken out of thin air).

This is the reason why in PC2 I tune only less than a handful of very small tweaks at a time and EXLUSIVELY those I feel a problem with after having had extensive laps on warm tires.

Assetto Corsa is one of the simulators that get car setups right the most.
Kunos made a good attempt of getting setup values for each individual car into a believable range and best of all you are not wrenching blindfolded but you get a live suspension alignment measurement at all times - those arbitrary toe angles you set up on the car using X springs and Y ride height will will be displayed for you with their actual values with the car sitting on the ground.

Add to that the ability to use extensive third party telemetry and you really setup precisely with cause and effect by the exact portion on the exact component you need.

IMO No Game Sim or Not gets the Suspension tweeking right and even if it gets close you would Never know unless you have a Motion Cockpit Simulator for SOP feel.

Buttkickers add a Grrat deal of Road and Bump feel and are Very informative of what the car is doing in combination with a Good FFB wheel but thats as Good as it gets for Home Sim Rigs ---> i use 2x buttkickers 1 plays left other plays right Both play Center/Neutral Road feel --> Buttkicker olacement is Verh important --> they are Mounted directly under left and right Buttocks for Maximum feel <--- My Arse Gets a Great Buttkicker Message!!! LOL

menos
03-01-2018, 04:52
IMO No Game Sim or Not gets the Suspension tweeking right and even if it gets close you would Never know unless you have a Motion Cockpit Simulator for SOP feel.

Buttkickers add a Grrat deal of Road and Bump feel and are Very informative of what the car is doing in combination with a Good FFB wheel but thats as Good as it gets for Home Sim Rigs ---> i use 2x buttkickers 1 plays left other plays right Both play Center/Neutral Road feel --> Buttkicker olacement is Verh important --> they are Mounted directly under left and right Buttocks for Maximum feel <--- My Arse Gets a Great Buttkicker Message!!! LOL
I strongly disagree here.

With the only exception of iRacing I have used all major simulators, not with a motion rig but with current Fanatec CS products and a solid rig.

From all current simulators I find Assetto Corsa being the most communicative in terms of vehicle dynamics, the most precise in terms of FFB and certainly the very best in terms of setup tuning and direct vehicle response to setup changes.
I do setup my cars with the help of Motec i2 and not only does the data make absolute sense, the cars behavior on the track is exceptionally logical in terms of setup changes vs actual telemetry data vs visual feedback and FFB.

Of course any hardware short of a full motion sim rig is EXTREMELY limited in providing the feedback of the cars behavior, no argument here.

I am still (since release, as I have pre-ordered PC2) searching (and not finding) FFB settings with PC2 that come close to the perfection Assetto Corsa offers out of the box with Fanatec wheels.
In regards to the car setups in PC2 I find that setup changes are rather vague and relatively rough (likely to a large degree caused by the lack of optimal FFB) compared to what my setup with Assetto Corsa is.
I wish PC2 had it's FFB channels as neatly separated as RaceRoom does - this way one could truly set up FFB influences force by force to mix the perfect FFB depending on the wheel in use.

As to your comment that no sim does get suspension setups right - here is the point where I strongly disagree.
Surely it is extremely difficult to discern setup changes with the extreme limitations we have in sensory feedback, sitting in a sim rig where 90% of the feedback a driver gets from the suspension is completely taken away (your "butt") but learning to read those 90% by reading it from visual input, audio visual input, FFB (which in a sim ideally has infused certain feedback, a real car does not as to aid that lack of "feel by butt") and most importantly actual telemetry data will get you the setup response you search for.

To me Project Cars 2 is largely still a black hole in those terms - the FFB is far from as precise in communicating - there is no detailed telemetry (no damper velocity plots, no tire slip diagrams, no tire temp and pressure plots, no toe and camber calculation plots, no ride height and suspension travel plots, …). Having that information is invaluable for detailed setups.

As long as that information is not there I simply treat Project Cars 2 as a fun game for a quick spin in cars and conditions I don't have with other simulators and touch the setup menus only lightly but never too seriously.
Assetto Corsa is where my serious sim racing is happening - a completely different kind of sport. Both are a great way of spending some free time, both are currently entirely different.

If you have interest in learning about the detailed telemetry and setup options in AC, I'd love to chat about it and especially hear you out about your knowledge and options. There are regular club races at US time schedules over at the Racedepartment website - you'll find me on those.

GrimeyDog
03-01-2018, 14:53
I strongly disagree here.

With the only exception of iRacing I have used all major simulators, not with a motion rig but with current Fanatec CS products and a solid rig.

From all current simulators I find Assetto Corsa being the most communicative in terms of vehicle dynamics, the most precise in terms of FFB and certainly the very best in terms of setup tuning and direct vehicle response to setup changes.
I do setup my cars with the help of Motec i2 and not only does the data make absolute sense, the cars behavior on the track is exceptionally logical in terms of setup changes vs actual telemetry data vs visual feedback and FFB.

Of course any hardware short of a full motion sim rig is EXTREMELY limited in providing the feedback of the cars behavior, no argument here.

I am still (since release, as I have pre-ordered PC2) searching (and not finding) FFB settings with PC2 that come close to the perfection Assetto Corsa offers out of the box with Fanatec wheels.
In regards to the car setups in PC2 I find that setup changes are rather vague and relatively rough (likely to a large degree caused by the lack of optimal FFB) compared to what my setup with Assetto Corsa is.
I wish PC2 had it's FFB channels as neatly separated as RaceRoom does - this way one could truly set up FFB influences force by force to mix the perfect FFB depending on the wheel in use.

As to your comment that no sim does get suspension setups right - here is the point where I strongly disagree.
Surely it is extremely difficult to discern setup changes with the extreme limitations we have in sensory feedback, sitting in a sim rig where 90% of the feedback a driver gets from the suspension is completely taken away (your "butt") but learning to read those 90% by reading it from visual input, audio visual input, FFB (which in a sim ideally has infused certain feedback, a real car does not as to aid that lack of "feel by butt") and most importantly actual telemetry data will get you the setup response you search for.

To me Project Cars 2 is largely still a black hole in those terms - the FFB is far from as precise in communicating - there is no detailed telemetry (no damper velocity plots, no tire slip diagrams, no tire temp and pressure plots, no toe and camber calculation plots, no ride height and suspension travel plots, …). Having that information is invaluable for detailed setups.

As long as that information is not there I simply treat Project Cars 2 as a fun game for a quick spin in cars and conditions I don't have with other simulators and touch the setup menus only lightly but never too seriously.
Assetto Corsa is where my serious sim racing is happening - a completely different kind of sport. Both are a great way of spending some free time, both are currently entirely different.

If you have interest in learning about the detailed telemetry and setup options in AC, I'd love to chat about it and especially hear you out about your knowledge and options. There are regular club races at US time schedules over at the Racedepartment website - you'll find me on those.

For Me to agree or dissagree is pointless because others will always have oposing opinions. Me I still drive all cars with Stock settings I only adjust Fuel level and Engine Brake setting and i can Keep up with the best of them provided i know the track ---> Some people are Alien fast No matter the Tune and some will be slow even with the top time on the leader board tune ---> Bottom line IMO the best tune is the 1 that fits your driving style and you are most comfortable with.

what i will say is that the Feel that you are Missing IMO is there so you Must consider a few things.

1) Hardware i have a v2 and a 2.5 and i will say that you are Missing a fair bit of Subtle FFB feel with the v2 --> i got My v2 from the First Batch in 2014!!! <-- thats 4yrs in Tec terms the v2 is very out dated --> While it will work well with Older Games EX: Assetto Corsa has been out a Very Long time for PC and was developed and Optimized to work well with wheels from that time period... Yes it has been updated but the Core of its FFB physics is still the same.

Pcars2 has been made to work well with Newer and older wheels and utilizes a broader range of FFB signals that Older wheels can Not pick up --> i tested My v2 VS v2.5 and the 1000Htz refresh rate and Drag Free wheel center really add alot of feel that just can Not be felt with the v2 ...Note the 1000Htz Refresh rate of the v2.5 thats 500Htz Faster than the v2 and gives a Much Smoother/Faster FFB Ramp up --> Ex v2 = 2,4,6,8,10 while v2.5 is 1--->10 so you feel the Full FFB Effects range the Pcars2 has to offer ---> the v2.5 was said to be only a slight step up but the difference in Subtle FFB feel is signifigant. Best way i can describe it is Its like 1080p vs 2160p!!! While 1080p is Good and is Crisp and Clear when you go to 2160p you Notice all the Little Details and Nuances that were always there but you Never Noticed because 1080p can Not display them in fine detail ---> thats what the v2.5 bring out over the v2 which affects and enhances the Full range of FFB. <-- Hardware is Very important when looking for Maximum Detail and immersion.

2) You maybe just used to Assetto Corsa and Need to spend more time weining your self off of it to really appreciate the FFB physics of Pcars2 --> It took Me a fair bit to get into Pcars2 FFB and Tire Physics model because i spent a few months playing Race Room and had gotten very used to its feel. --> Pcars2 is a New Game with a New Tire Physics model so its Not supposed to feel like Pcars1/AC or any other Game that came before it.

3) Date, Time, TRACK temps!!! Its Great to feel the wheel weight Change as Tire temps/Track temps increase/Decrease this is some thing that i have felt in No other game to date! this means when you are testing you Must pay attention and make sure you are testing on the same date and time No matter what track you test and tune on or your test and tuning results will Vary --> Note even though you may set date and time the same different Tracks will have different temps and Grip levels. Also Note there is a Clear wheel weight difference between Cold Track/Tires and Loss of Grip due to Hot/Worn tires and or Pushing the Car too hard.

Nope im Not saying Pcars2 is perfect but its Really Good!!!
In My case I was sooo used to the in car FFB masters with Pcars1 that when Pcars2 didnt have that feature i felt Pcars2 was Lacking ---> After a few months of playing Pcars2 i realize that the FFB strength acriss the board with All cars is Very Good --> If SMS were to add a In car Slider to Pcars2 IMO it would Need to be a per car Wheel weight slider:yes: Not per Car FFB Master:no: ---> Ex the Gt3 Ferrari, Gt3 GTR wheel feels Heavier than it Needs to be compared to the Gt3 Porsche <-- or Vise versa depending on how Much wheel weight you like ---> But its annoying to have to go into the FFB Menu to change wheel weight setting just because you changed cars.

Just a few of My thoughts.

z3r0cool77
05-01-2018, 09:37
Yes it does.

How does one go about using it with xbox? Android app, windows phone app or can i setup a laptop and have it recieve telemetry from the xbox?

Y22 Rydr
05-01-2018, 11:32
How does one go about using it with xbox? Android app, windows phone app or can i setup a laptop and have it recieve telemetry from the xbox?

Only runs on PC (as far as I know). Enable the pCars1 UDP in pCars2 and set vrHive to receive UDP from the game. There is a detailed user guide available in the application itself.

PulpDogg
05-01-2018, 11:38
I have a question regarding Step 1. It says the ideal would be to reach the rev limit at the end of the longest straight. Doesn't that mean, I only reach the top speed at the end of that long straight? Or am I missing something here? And I thought reaching top speed sooner would be better.

morpwr
05-01-2018, 11:49
I have a question regarding Step 1. It says the ideal would be to reach the rev limit at the end of the longest straight. Doesn't that mean, I only reach the top speed at the end of that long straight? Or am I missing something here? And I thought reaching top speed sooner would be better.

You don't want the motor bouncing off the rev-limiter half way down the longest straight. Not hitting top speed on the longest straight will normally hurt you more then you could make up hitting top speed somewhere else. Obviously like every other setting there is a little fudge factor here.

PulpDogg
05-01-2018, 12:01
You don't want the motor bouncing off the rev-limiter half way down the longest straight. Not hitting top speed on the longest straight will normally hurt you more then you could make up hitting top speed somewhere else. Obviously like every other setting there is a little fudge factor here.

Not sure I entirely understand. What I meant with "hitting top speed sooner" meant sooner on that longest straight. For example - Nordschleife. Dottinger Höhe. Wouldn't it be better for me to reach top speed early on that long straight and not just at the end of it?

And why do I not want the motor bouncing off the rev-limiter halfway down the straight? Genuinely trying to understand here :). I am a noob, when it comes to stuff like that.

morpwr
05-01-2018, 12:36
Not sure I entirely understand. What I meant with "hitting top speed sooner" meant sooner on that longest straight. For example - Nordschleife. Dottinger Höhe. Wouldn't it be better for me to reach top speed early on that long straight and not just at the end of it?

And why do I not want the motor bouncing off the rev-limiter halfway down the straight? Genuinely trying to understand here :). I am a noob, when it comes to stuff like that.

If the motor is bouncing off the rev limiting it cant go any faster period unless maybe youre drafting a car but even then the increase would be minor. I don't run that track often so I cant give you a good answer on that one. If its a long uphill straight it may be better to hit the top speed a little early so the extra gear can help pull the car up the hill and accelerate faster. Like I said there is fudge factor here. The other thing to remember is motor wear does come into play if your constantly hitting the rev limiter.

PulpDogg
05-01-2018, 12:48
Motor wear - yeah that makes sense.

Thanks.

z3r0cool77
05-01-2018, 16:40
Motor wear - yeah that makes sense.

Thanks.

Think of it as max engine rpm in your highest gear more than top speed. If you can get to the fastest speed your car can reach then ofc, get there as soon as possible, but that speed may be higher or lower depending on the ratio of your gears. (Only really relevant in cars with highly adjustable gear ratios)

Example: in a 5 speed with a fifth gear ratio of 1.5
(dont refer to it as final gear ratio thats misleading because it refers to the over all ratio which may be set independantly and effect the rpm range of every gear)
You may hit max revs at 7500 rpm and 180mph 3/4 of the way down the longest straight. Now a couple of different things can take place through tuning. By decreasing the value of 5th gear to 1.0 you may instead hit 180mph at 3/4 of the way down the straight but because of the longer gear you may still have engine power left to continue accelerating to 190mph before the end of the straight instead of bouncing off redline at 180mph. If you decrease the values too much you may take longer to hit max speed and lose time and if you have them too high you may be limited by engine rpm and waste time/speed bouncing of the revlimiter. It has to be balanced.

However there are a few things you have to remember, 1. If you change any gear you may need to adjust most if not all the other gears as well in order to create a smooth shift curve (a nice balance between the amount of time between each gear) Its normal for longer to be spent in each gear as you go higher but you dont want to (crack) the curve and end up with a gear where when you shift into it the car either loses a massive amount of rpms putting you way outside the optimal hp/torque generating capacity of the engine (you shift and engine rpms drop too much and the car stops accelerating, you see this with factory settings on some street cars. Older corvettes for example, 6th gear was more of a cruising/overdrive gear meant for coasting along with just enough power to maintain highway speed while running as low rpms as possible for comfort/fuel economy. Its dandy for highway use but crap for a race car other than maybe le’mans) and you dont want to put 2 gears too tightly together so that when you shift from one to the other you arent gaining any mechanical advantage. (Say you shift from 4th to 5th but the rpms dont change before and after the shift so youre just wasting time changing gears at all)

Finally you want to have JUST enough engine range to get the max speed out of the car. You could drop all the ratios and theoretically in top gear you could go 300mph before hitting redline but more than likely you wont have enough hp/torque to ever get there no matter how long the straight is. So you need to balance your ability to accelerate with maximing usage of your engines realistic operating range. As another example, your car may be power limited and only able to hit a max of 170mph, depending on your gearing you might
A. never be able to hit that speed due to redline limits (gears values are too high)
B. you might hit that speed in 1/4 mile but lack the power to get any faster before the end of the straight (optimal)
C. You might hit top speed just as you reach the end if the straight but take way too long to reach it due to crap acceleration (gear values are too low)
So optimally youre going to want to reach your fastest power limited speed as soon as possible without cutting it short of the engines potential and once you do still have JUST enough engine safe operating range left that you arent tearing the engine to pieces by running too close to redline.

Its a balance but its really only an issue in those cars with highly customizable gears. Sometimes it may even more important to adjust ratios to give you optimal rpms (power) coming out of corners as opposed to top speed on a straight depending on high curvy the track is. For example you dont want be forced to shift from 2 to 3 just a second before slowing down for a corner because you bounce off redline. Then you may be in a fresh gear with no power to accelerate out of the corner and end up having to down shift again immediately. Shifting takes time and time wasted is speed wasted and lap time wasted. If its a corner where exit speed or speed through the corner is vital for a good lap time then be better off adjusting gear 2 so that you have just enough rpm range so you dont need to upshift just before corner entry or make it so that you make the shift into 3rd sooner before the corner and can then use 3rd through the corner at optimal power output rpm instead. What you do will depend on the needs for the rest of the track aswell. Optimizing a gear for one corner might ruin your speed through another or on a straight. A race team could spend a ton of time just getting every ratio as perfect as possible for a specific track. Anyway I’m rambling now. Hopefully you get something out of that.

LaManchaah
06-01-2018, 01:48
Thanks a lot St4r8ucK !
I am really looking forward to reading your next guide.
My best wishes to you and your family for the new year.

PulpDogg
08-01-2018, 10:13
Think of it as max engine rpm in your highest gear more than top speed. If you can get to the fastest speed your car can reach then ofc, get there as soon as possible, but that speed may be higher or lower depending on the ratio of your gears. (Only really relevant in cars with highly adjustable gear ratios)

Example: in a 5 speed with a fifth gear ratio of 1.5
(dont refer to it as final gear ratio thats misleading because it refers to the over all ratio which may be set independantly and effect the rpm range of every gear)
You may hit max revs at 7500 rpm and 180mph 3/4 of the way down the longest straight. Now a couple of different things can take place through tuning. By decreasing the value of 5th gear to 1.0 you may instead hit 180mph at 3/4 of the way down the straight but because of the longer gear you may still have engine power left to continue accelerating to 190mph before the end of the straight instead of bouncing off redline at 180mph. If you decrease the values too much you may take longer to hit max speed and lose time and if you have them too high you may be limited by engine rpm and waste time/speed bouncing of the revlimiter. It has to be balanced.

However there are a few things you have to remember, 1. If you change any gear you may need to adjust most if not all the other gears as well in order to create a smooth shift curve (a nice balance between the amount of time between each gear) Its normal for longer to be spent in each gear as you go higher but you dont want to (crack) the curve and end up with a gear where when you shift into it the car either loses a massive amount of rpms putting you way outside the optimal hp/torque generating capacity of the engine (you shift and engine rpms drop too much and the car stops accelerating, you see this with factory settings on some street cars. Older corvettes for example, 6th gear was more of a cruising/overdrive gear meant for coasting along with just enough power to maintain highway speed while running as low rpms as possible for comfort/fuel economy. Its dandy for highway use but crap for a race car other than maybe le’mans) and you dont want to put 2 gears too tightly together so that when you shift from one to the other you arent gaining any mechanical advantage. (Say you shift from 4th to 5th but the rpms dont change before and after the shift so youre just wasting time changing gears at all)

Finally you want to have JUST enough engine range to get the max speed out of the car. You could drop all the ratios and theoretically in top gear you could go 300mph before hitting redline but more than likely you wont have enough hp/torque to ever get there no matter how long the straight is. So you need to balance your ability to accelerate with maximing usage of your engines realistic operating range. As another example, your car may be power limited and only able to hit a max of 170mph, depending on your gearing you might
A. never be able to hit that speed due to redline limits (gears values are too high)
B. you might hit that speed in 1/4 mile but lack the power to get any faster before the end of the straight (optimal)
C. You might hit top speed just as you reach the end if the straight but take way too long to reach it due to crap acceleration (gear values are too low)
So optimally youre going to want to reach your fastest power limited speed as soon as possible without cutting it short of the engines potential and once you do still have JUST enough engine safe operating range left that you arent tearing the engine to pieces by running too close to redline.

Its a balance but its really only an issue in those cars with highly customizable gears. Sometimes it may even more important to adjust ratios to give you optimal rpms (power) coming out of corners as opposed to top speed on a straight depending on high curvy the track is. For example you dont want be forced to shift from 2 to 3 just a second before slowing down for a corner because you bounce off redline. Then you may be in a fresh gear with no power to accelerate out of the corner and end up having to down shift again immediately. Shifting takes time and time wasted is speed wasted and lap time wasted. If its a corner where exit speed or speed through the corner is vital for a good lap time then be better off adjusting gear 2 so that you have just enough rpm range so you dont need to upshift just before corner entry or make it so that you make the shift into 3rd sooner before the corner and can then use 3rd through the corner at optimal power output rpm instead. What you do will depend on the needs for the rest of the track aswell. Optimizing a gear for one corner might ruin your speed through another or on a straight. A race team could spend a ton of time just getting every ratio as perfect as possible for a specific track. Anyway I’m rambling now. Hopefully you get something out of that.

Thanks mate, that really helped me understand it and cleared up the idea max rpm = max speed. I don't think I am there yet in terms of tuning my cars, but that last part about not shifting up before a corner - I have experienced that. Mind you, I am using automatic shifting right now, because I am on a controller and have enough to worry about.

I am continually amazed about the depth of this game. I have over 36 hours playing time in this game and I am sure I only scratched the surface of whats possible.

Oldplayer
09-01-2018, 23:11
thanks a lot and even an italian translation :eagerness:

ThorZA16
11-01-2018, 10:25
This helped so much even if it wasn't catered towards pCARS! Really looking forward to your pCARS 2 version of this setup guide!

napocapo69
03-03-2018, 09:38
Excellent guide, thanks.