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Rossi46 (NL)
15-10-2017, 18:27
Today my racing mate sended me a message with a couple of issues he had with Project Cars 2.
One of them was that he couldn't feel any difference when he tuned the car.
The first car and track we tried was the Porsche GT4 on Long Beach. He said it was bouncing/jumping a lot, i could feel this, but not much. I tried to minimize all the spring, damper, bumpstop values to its lowest settings and didn't feel any difference, then i maximized all the settings to it's highest settings and the feeling was still the same. We double checked if teh correct settings where saved. My own experience with pcars1 this would result in a totally undrivable car, but now i drove the same laptime's as before.

After this i tried the old Caterham and the only thing i could feel on minimal settings where the soft springs bounce and the car bottoming out. For the rest of the car handling still no difference noticable.

Last friday i was driving on an RWB vs ART event and i drove the ferarri 488 GT3 on the Red Bull Ring and couldn't manage to get a good feeling with the setup. So i tried the same thing today, minimized and maximized all the settings......still no difference in feeling and laptime's.

Next monday we do an ART multiclass endurance event on Road America and i drive the Ford GT LM GTE.
And again i minimized and maximized everything, and the only difference i could feel was the more unstable braking on maximum settings. No diffence in cornering or other car behavior.
So i think our findings from today would be an explanation why i couldn't get my car properly tuned last friday.

We are driving with the same wheel, Fanatec CSL Elite with loadcell pedals. ( i have the newer ps4 version)

Any help is appreciated.

blinkngone
15-10-2017, 20:27
Hi Rossi, sorry you are having issues. Where do you have your FFB set up? Have you installed any other profiles like Jack Spade's? Attached is mine. Where is your "Volume " and "FX" set?
242940

Rossi46 (NL)
15-10-2017, 20:32
I am currently using RAW with settings 100-40-50-50-0.40

I have also tried the Jack Spade file "ffb_custom_settings - stan mid comp" but i get some oscilation in my wheel on the straights.

blinkngone
15-10-2017, 20:46
Phew, I can turn most of my cars into smoking pretzels with the tuning. Hopefully someone that had a problem similar to yours will see this. Sorry.

Rossi46 (NL)
15-10-2017, 20:49
Phew, I can turn most of my cars into smoking pretzels with the tuning. Hopefully someone that had a problem similar to yours will see this. Sorry.

No worries dude, thnx for your time.

ttb57
16-10-2017, 03:22
Don't know if this helps, I found if I save over existing setup nothing happens but if I save to new slot it works.

Rossi46 (NL)
16-10-2017, 04:29
Don't know if this helps, I found if I save over existing setup nothing happens but if I save to new slot it works.

I always do this, after it is saved i always check it again to be sure.
Or i make a completely new setup save with the name "Min Settings Test" or "Max Settings Test"

gandy
16-10-2017, 05:29
FFB slider Tone is your link to the car wheels and what they are doing, I have found that most high downforce cars need a lower tone while lower downforce cars need a higher tone, Some cars do not like a low tone setting and a balanced tone can leave cars feeling bland and lifeless at best.

For a car like the 488GT3 i use a tone between 10 and 20 and something like the G40J i use a tone of around 60 maybe more.

We really need a per car ffb tweaking to make sure we get all the right forces for the car we choose.

Wayne Kerr
16-10-2017, 05:33
"good feeling" is pretty vague man.

and w/o knowing what the setup was, somewhat hard to help.

I will say this for road america. get your mechanical grip package right and you can run very little aero in the car and still turn a decent lap time. If you haven't done so already, d/l Jussi's calculator to get a baseline setup going.

Rossi46 (NL)
16-10-2017, 06:05
"good feeling" is pretty vague man.

and w/o knowing what the setup was, somewhat hard to help.

I will say this for road america. get your mechanical grip package right and you can run very little aero in the car and still turn a decent lap time. If you haven't done so already, d/l Jussi's calculator to get a baseline setup going.

But this is our main problem, i can't notice any difference when i change springs, dampers and other suspension related settings.

cpcdem
16-10-2017, 09:37
Yeap, this is what I am seeing as well. Maybe they are just toned down, which is probably a good thing.
Other aspects do make a big difference for me, though, like downforce, differential, brake/traction control settings.

Rodders
16-10-2017, 13:41
Rossi - you may recall me in a state of confusion during that GT3 Red Bull race with my setup as I simply could not get the feel or lap time I had prior to the event. I had multiple saved tunes for my car and it seems like it was stuck on the wrong one or randomly loading whatever one it wanted. My fix was to delete all my tunes and only have 1 per car in the All tracks folder. It's been working perfectly ever since as with only 1 tune per car it can't load the wrong one (unless it manages to load the tune for another car which hasn't happened yet).

I recommend trying it and seeing how you find it then as tweaking the car most definitely changes the handling and feel of it. I suspect a lot of people are getting affected by this but don't realise it yet.

A quick bit of insight for anyone questioning my reasoning - your tunes are all saved in a folder called tuningsetups in your Project Cars 2 savegame in Documents. When I looked in there after the race I had 10 files all for the same car with exactly the same time stamp (the last time I saved a tune just before race start). There is only supposed to be one file per tune, not multiple so it was clearly updating 10 diff saved tunes for the car I was driving at the same time and who knows what it does when it was asked to load one :o

bmanic
16-10-2017, 13:48
This is really confusing to me to read so from my perspective these are the options:

A) Your game is bugging
B) Your wheel is bugging/weird and you get no feedback of the changes
C) You are just not a sensitive person and can't detect huge differences in handling, FFB and general car behavior
D) You are trolling (I don't think you are but I had to add this option here)
E) You are a very slow driver and are seriously off pace (more than 5 seconds off the pace and never actually driving on the limit properly)

The difference between ALL spring and dampers set to minimum versus ALL spring and dampers settings set to maximum IS GIGANTIC GINORMOUSLY HUGE. In one case you can make a car that instantly spins while with optimum settings you can have a car that is just right.. or anything in between.

It's just mind boggling that you wouldn't feel any difference as this is the sim where the most differences are felt, out of ALL the other titles.

Try this: Set ALL SPRINGS and dampers to their softest and fastest settings at the front. This means SPRINGS to their lowest possible value and Dampers to their lowest possible value. Now set the REAR springs to highest value (stiffest) while keeping the fastest dampers (smallest value). This should result in a pretty much undrivable car. If you can't feel these differences to a basic "optimal" setup (like the Stable setup or even Loose) then I can't do anything else than just scratch my head in disbelief.

EDIT: Added one more option (E)

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 13:52
Also, make sure to save your setup via "Save to new file". Do not use the "Overwrite existing setup" option.

John Hargreaves
16-10-2017, 14:04
Also, make sure to save your setup via "Save to new file". Do not use the "Overwrite existing setup" option.

Does that definitely never work? It does seem to work when I save over a setup slot, but maybe I'm not paying attention enough. I usually just check tyre pressure in the hud and it seems to save those ok.

Bealdor
16-10-2017, 14:05
Does that definitely never work? It does seem to work when I save over a setup slot, but maybe I'm not paying attention enough. I usually just check tyre pressure in the hud and it seems to save those ok.

It doesn't work reliably and that's enough for me to not use it.

Rossi46 (NL)
16-10-2017, 14:28
Rossi - you may recall me in a state of confusion during that GT3 Red Bull race with my setup as I simply could not get the feel or lap time I had prior to the event. I had multiple saved tunes for my car and it seems like it was stuck on the wrong one or randomly loading whatever one it wanted. My fix was to delete all my tunes and only have 1 per car in the All tracks folder. It's been working perfectly ever since as with only 1 tune per car it can't load the wrong one (unless it manages to load the tune for another car which hasn't happened yet).

I recommend trying it and seeing how you find it then as tweaking the car most definitely changes the handling and feel of it. I suspect a lot of people are getting affected by this but don't realise it yet.

A quick bit of insight for anyone questioning my reasoning - your tunes are all saved in a folder called tuningsetups in your Project Cars 2 savegame in Documents. When I looked in there after the race I had 10 files all for the same car with exactly the same time stamp (the last time I saved a tune just before race start). There is only supposed to be one file per tune, not multiple so it was clearly updating 10 diff saved tunes for the car I was driving at the same time and who knows what it does when it was asked to load one :o

Thnx Rodders, i will try this tonight.

Rossi46 (NL)
16-10-2017, 14:55
This is really confusing to me to read so from my perspective these are the options:

A) Your game is bugging
B) Your wheel is bugging/weird and you get no feedback of the changes
C) You are just not a sensitive person and can't detect huge differences in handling, FFB and general car behavior
D) You are trolling (I don't think you are but I had to add this option here)
E) You are a very slow driver and are seriously off pace (more than 5 seconds off the pace and never actually driving on the limit properly)

The difference between ALL spring and dampers set to minimum versus ALL spring and dampers settings set to maximum IS GIGANTIC GINORMOUSLY HUGE. In one case you can make a car that instantly spins while with optimum settings you can have a car that is just right.. or anything in between.

It's just mind boggling that you wouldn't feel any difference as this is the sim where the most differences are felt, out of ALL the other titles.

Try this: Set ALL SPRINGS and dampers to their softest and fastest settings at the front. This means SPRINGS to their lowest possible value and Dampers to their lowest possible value. Now set the REAR springs to highest value (stiffest) while keeping the fastest dampers (smallest value). This should result in a pretty much undrivable car. If you can't feel these differences to a basic "optimal" setup (like the Stable setup or even Loose) then I can't do anything else than just scratch my head in disbelief.

EDIT: Added one more option (E)

A) i don't know, that is what i try to find out.
B) wheel is one week old, but the wheel is good in other games. rFactor2, AC.
C) I have more than 850hours on pcars1 and was tuning a lot in this game, i could feel everything. But this was with my old T300rs. I have played project cars 2 with the T300rs and the new Fanatec CSL Elite and the Fanatec's FFB is much more detailed and smoother. My fourth T300 broke in 16 months and didn't want a 5th, so i bought the Fanatec.
D) No......i am definitly not trolling, why would I ?
E) When i started to play Project Cars 1 i was slow....(first real racing game) but i can say now that i am definitly not slow anymore. (With a good car setup)

What you subscibe as Gigantic Ginormously Huge....... i really can't feel any difference. I drive the same laptimes with both settings.
you mention mind boggling......now you now how i feel. :P
Tonight i will try what you told, set the front with the lowest settings and the rear with the highest.

And i always use the "save to new" option and check again after loading a new one.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 15:04
Rossi - you may recall me in a state of confusion during that GT3 Red Bull race with my setup as I simply could not get the feel or lap time I had prior to the event. I had multiple saved tunes for my car and it seems like it was stuck on the wrong one or randomly loading whatever one it wanted. My fix was to delete all my tunes and only have 1 per car in the All tracks folder. It's been working perfectly ever since as with only 1 tune per car it can't load the wrong one (unless it manages to load the tune for another car which hasn't happened yet).

I recommend trying it and seeing how you find it then as tweaking the car most definitely changes the handling and feel of it. I suspect a lot of people are getting affected by this but don't realise it yet.

A quick bit of insight for anyone questioning my reasoning - your tunes are all saved in a folder called tuningsetups in your Project Cars 2 savegame in Documents. When I looked in there after the race I had 10 files all for the same car with exactly the same time stamp (the last time I saved a tune just before race start). There is only supposed to be one file per tune, not multiple so it was clearly updating 10 diff saved tunes for the car I was driving at the same time and who knows what it does when it was asked to load one :o

I am not questioning your reasoning. I have a lot of the same issues loading. My question is I have different set ups for each track, I don't have multiple saved set ups for each track just 1. So you are saying I can only have a single set up for all tracks if I want to be safe? This would be unfortunate.

Wayne Kerr
16-10-2017, 15:45
I am not questioning your reasoning. I have a lot of the same issues loading. My question is I have different set ups for each track, I don't have multiple saved set ups for each track just 1. So you are saying I can only have a single set up for all tracks if I want to be safe? This would be unfortunate.

nah, can't be.

if you want to write over your existing setup, clickk "save as new setup", and then click the one you want to save over, it'll ask you if you're sure you want to over write. click yes, and it'll save over it.

i'm loving the description field of the setups. really lets me write some quick blurb down.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 15:58
nah, can't be.

if you want to write over your existing setup, clickk "save as new setup", and then click the one you want to save over, it'll ask you if you're sure you want to over write. click yes, and it'll save over it.

i'm loving the description field of the setups. really lets me write some quick blurb down.

Well, here is what happened to me, the game kept insisting on loading a set up for the same car but a different track, over and over. Reset to default at the current track took numerous attempts. I am on Sidewinder and the game thinks Silverstone National is the set up for this track, I think that is what Rodders is describing. Good for you that this never happens.

Huiboh
16-10-2017, 17:52
This is really confusing to me to read so from my perspective these are the options:

A) Your game is bugging
B) Your wheel is bugging/weird and you get no feedback of the changes
C) You are just not a sensitive person and can't detect huge differences in handling, FFB and general car behavior
D) You are trolling (I don't think you are but I had to add this option here)
E) You are a very slow driver and are seriously off pace (more than 5 seconds off the pace and never actually driving on the limit properly)

The difference between ALL spring and dampers set to minimum versus ALL spring and dampers settings set to maximum IS GIGANTIC GINORMOUSLY HUGE. In one case you can make a car that instantly spins while with optimum settings you can have a car that is just right.. or anything in between.

It's just mind boggling that you wouldn't feel any difference as this is the sim where the most differences are felt, out of ALL the other titles.

Try this: Set ALL SPRINGS and dampers to their softest and fastest settings at the front. This means SPRINGS to their lowest possible value and Dampers to their lowest possible value. Now set the REAR springs to highest value (stiffest) while keeping the fastest dampers (smallest value). This should result in a pretty much undrivable car. If you can't feel these differences to a basic "optimal" setup (like the Stable setup or even Loose) then I can't do anything else than just scratch my head in disbelief.

EDIT: Added one more option (E)

I have the same Issues as Rossi. And i can say for sure that Rossi is one of our most experienced and fastest drivers. Also he "feels" every difference with the Force Feedback. But this Issue isnt a FFB Issue. That means the Car behavior doesnt change.

For Example i change the Spring-Rate of a Car from hard (320Nm) to very soft (160Nm) of the Porsche Cayman GT4 and i am driving at Long Beach, the car is also bumpy/ jumping like before. Also the Laptimes stay close to another. With this lower Spring-Rate and some Damper lowering it shouldnt be bumpy anymore but it is.

Ive tested this at many different Tracks (smoth ones, bumpy ones, mixed ones) with much different cars and the only car which changed properly his behavior and his Grip-Rate was the Caterham 500R. Well i will do the same as Rodder told and delete all Car-Settings maybe its the solution for now.

at bmanic:

Please, please, please tell us how to be sure that the game isnt bugging. That is one of much Problems i have with the game. And its like not we are trolling you its more like the game trolls us. :P I have already reinstalled (switched off the Firewall and the Antivir-Programm for installing) the game with the complete Steam-Downloadversion instead of the DVD-Version. But still nothing changed for me.

Wayne Kerr
16-10-2017, 18:49
without changning anything but the springs from full stiff front and rear to full soft front and rear (springs only), you're looking at a 13% front anti roll torque distribution difference.

there's NO WAY a) the difference can't be felt and b) the car being able to drive the same way.

never mind the wheel rates being different, the damping is also going from almost critically damped at the front in rebound to pretty much under damped. how the heck can the cars "feel" the same.

edit: ran a few laps with the cayman, tried what spring rates at massively different end of spectrum, no way it doesn't make a difference. One is almost undriveable.

i have a lap up in the time trial table, with a more "normal" setup.

Huiboh
16-10-2017, 19:44
without changning anything but the springs from full stiff front and rear to full soft front and rear (springs only), you're looking at a 13% front anti roll torque distribution difference.

there's NO WAY a) the difference can't be felt and b) the car being able to drive the same way.

never mind the wheel rates being different, the damping is also going from almost critically damped at the front in rebound to pretty much under damped. how the heck can the cars "feel" the same.

You are right! And it should be like u say. And it is, if i do like Rodder said:

1. delete all saved car settings at the folder "tuningsetups"
2. start a practice or Quali
3. change the car setup
4. save it to a "new setup-file"
5. rename it, not loose or stable
6. save it
7. apply all messages about saving
8. directly after (without returning to the "menu-screen" load this new saved setup again
9. then drive and changes will be applied you can feel the different car behavior (i dont wanna say only "feel" because the only thing we can feel is the FFB and its just subjective but a car behavior is repeatable) :)

if i wanna change the setup again i start again at point 3 and overwrite the existing file. Someone else told it in the thread already. Yes it works in this way, at least for this one try i made for now. Hopefully it will work for another tries, too.

BUT it can be only a temporarily workaround in my eyes, for this issue. We cant use the new, and really nice feature, to have multiple setups for one car at one Track. That is one thing, all passionate players of PCars1 went begging for, in PCars2.

For my Part i can say big Thank You to all of you helping guys, your answers and your tipps. I will use only one setup anymore at one car for now, like it was in PCars1. I would be very happy if this problem can get fixed in some of the next patches.

Anyways i would be happy to get an instruction how to get sure, that my game isnt bugging. Like i said its one of a couple of problems but these doesnt fit into here.

EDIT: That only works if the "tuningsetups" folder was empty in front of saving a new setup. so if i drive different cars on different tracks i cant change the tuningsettings, its allways behaving like the "loose" setting.

Wayne Kerr
16-10-2017, 20:18
You are right! And it should be like u say. And it is, if i do like Rodder said:

1. delete all saved car settings at the folder "tuningsetups"
2. start a practice or Quali
3. change the car setup
4. save it to a "new setup-file"
5. rename it, not loose or stable
6. save it
7. apply all messages about saving
8. directly after (without returning to the "menu-screen" load this new saved setup again
9. then drive and changes will be applied you can feel the different car behavior (i dont wanna say only "feel" because the only thing we can feel is the FFB and its just subjective but a car behavior is repeatable) :)

if i wanna change the setup again i start again at point 3 and overwrite the existing file. Someone else told it in the thread already. Yes it works in this way, at least for this one try i made for now. Hopefully it will work for another tries, too.

BUT it can be only a temporarily workaround in my eyes, for this issue. We cant use the new, and really nice feature, to have multiple setups for one car at one Track. That is one thing, all passionate players of PCars1 went begging for, in PCars2.

For my Part i can say big Thank You to all of you helping guys, your answers and your tipps. I will use only one setup anymore at one car for now, like it was in PCars1. I would be very happy if this problem can get fixed in some of the next patches.

Anyways i would be happy to get an instruction how to get sure, that my game isnt bugging. Like i said its one of a couple of problems but these doesnt fit into here.

EDIT: That only works if the "tuningsetups" folder was empty in front of saving a new setup. so if i drive different cars on different tracks i cant change the tuningsettings, its allways behaving like the "loose" setting.

for what it's worth, I have 6 different setups on Daytona, and of that 6 i have another 3 based off of one with different compound, fuel load and vent blanking (so basically one out of six is my quali, race and rain). So that folder, for that car, I have 9 setups.

Not sure why you can't see multiple setup for one car on one track, because if you can overwrite an old one, you can use that same method and save a new one by renaming it.

Huiboh
16-10-2017, 20:41
I can safe multiple setups, but it allways loads the "loose" standard-setup. Cant say if changes for the Fuel are getting saved on multiple setups but thats not that important. i dont want to delete one by one setup ive worked out for a car and a track to be able to setup a new car for another track. Sorry for my bad english, maybe it was a bit hard to understand my explanations.

bmanic
16-10-2017, 21:20
Please, please, please tell us how to be sure that the game isnt bugging. That is one of much Problems i have with the game. And its like not we are trolling you its more like the game trolls us. :P I have already reinstalled (switched off the Firewall and the Antivir-Programm for installing) the game with the complete Steam-Downloadversion instead of the DVD-Version. But still nothing changed for me.

It's very simple: Take a car where you can create a setup that is "undrivable". For instance the Aston Martin Vulcan is very easy to setup in such a way that it is completely and utterly undrivable (100% spinning immediately when you try to take any corner). Then make a setup that is super understeery and impossible to spin (also possible with the Vulcan).

I can show you exactly how if you need help.

This way you will figure out if the setup is bugging or not.

bmanic
16-10-2017, 21:21
I can safe multiple setups, but it allways loads the "loose" standard-setup. Cant say if changes for the Fuel are getting saved on multiple setups but thats not that important. i dont want to delete one by one setup ive worked out for a car and a track to be able to setup a new car for another track. Sorry for my bad english, maybe it was a bit hard to understand my explanations.

The automatic "previous setup" loading is not always reliable. This is how I do it:

1) Hit the "Reset to default" button (rightmost button at the bottom row where you find Load, Save and Reset)
2) LOAD your saved setup
3) Hit the EDIT SETUP button to make sure it loaded correctly
4) Exit the setup tuning and go on track

bmanic
16-10-2017, 21:25
without changning anything but the springs from full stiff front and rear to full soft front and rear (springs only), you're looking at a 13% front anti roll torque distribution difference.

there's NO WAY a) the difference can't be felt and b) the car being able to drive the same way.

never mind the wheel rates being different, the damping is also going from almost critically damped at the front in rebound to pretty much under damped. how the heck can the cars "feel" the same.

edit: ran a few laps with the cayman, tried what spring rates at massively different end of spectrum, no way it doesn't make a difference. One is almost undriveable.

i have a lap up in the time trial table, with a more "normal" setup.

Exactly. There is a _massive_ difference.

So perhaps this then confirms a bug if OP is indeed an experienced driver and knows his setups. I suggest taking a video of my Aston Martin Vulcan example. That car can be made to instantly spin with setup tweaks. Instantly. And then make it super safe and very understeery. If this doesn't happen when you apply the correct setup options, then you know the setups are bugged.

@OP: Also try running pCars in administrative mode and make sure the My Documents folder has proper permissions so that the setup files are created properly. Also, a bit drastic perhaps at this point, but you may want to delete the whole pCars 2 folder (BACKUP FIRST!). You'll have to assign everything again so make sure you take notes of all of your settings.

Also you can try to delete all the car setups in there (or just move them), see if that helps.

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 00:54
This is really confusing to me to read so from my perspective these are the options:
A) Your game is bugging
B) Your wheel is bugging/weird and you get no feedback of the changes
C) You are just not a sensitive person and can't detect huge differences in handling, FFB and general car behavior
D) You are trolling (I don't think you are but I had to add this option here)
E) You are a very slow driver and are seriously off pace (more than 5 seconds off the pace and never actually driving on the limit properly)


OK, then can you please do me a favor? Please go to TT at the Silverstone National with the 488 GT3 and log a good lap time, as in the last days a few of us run that a lot and we managed low 54s (mine best is 54,2). If you manage something like a 51s or 52s, then it is clearly a matter of (E), we just need to get better drivers, end of discussion.

In case not, here is what I just did:
I loaded the default loose setup and run a few laps, I could consistently do 54.5.
Then went to the tuning options and set the Front Spring Rate to the minimum value (240 N/mm) and the Rear to maximum (also 240), this should give me a lot of oversteer, probably making the car undriveable, right? I couldn't feel any of that, didn't seem to be different than before. My lap times were again consistent at 54.5.
Now I did the opposite, front springs at maximum (320) and rear springs to minimum (160), which should give a ton of understeer, right? Maybe there was some, but if there was it was very subtle and my lap times didn't change at all, still 54.5.

OK, then I thought that it's probably a case of A or B, my changes are not really used. But I then tried a silly value for front/right downforce (2/0) and now as expected I did get a ton of oversteer in the corners. Same with diff, I could easily make the car completely undriveable with oversteer. So it is not a matter of A or B.

About D, I can assure you I am not trolling, just want to figure out what is happening. That leaves us with C, which is plausible, but then again, ok I cannot feel the changes in springs, but shouldn't they at least have an impact on my lap times?

So, unless my lap times are extremely bad in the first place, then there must be something else going on. So can you please do a quick test as above to help us a bit? Thanks in advance!

Krus Control
17-10-2017, 01:03
I am currently using RAW with settings 100-40-50-50-0.40

I have also tried the Jack Spade file "ffb_custom_settings - stan mid comp" but i get some oscilation in my wheel on the straights.

Hey you should plug in these settings I dialed in on my CSL Elite. I own an FRS and was able to compare in game to my real car to dial my settings in and replicate that same accuracy in almost all cars. If you like your FFB feeling like cars actually feel you should at least plug these in and see if they work for you. These are a step above any other combination I've tried.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54382-Fanatec-CSL-Elite-Force-Feedback-Settings

Krus Control
17-10-2017, 01:21
Also my solution to this problem which has worked every time for me is:

1. Save setup as new setup and name or overwrite

2. Load that setup

3. Save over existing setup

4 (optional). Change your fuel load by 1 click so when you drive the car you can immediately see if the setup change you made actually happened.

Wayne Kerr
17-10-2017, 05:23
OK, then can you please do me a favor? Please go to TT at the Silverstone National with the 488 GT3 and log a good lap time, as in the last days a few of us run that a lot and we managed low 54s (mine best is 54,2). If you manage something like a 51s or 52s, then it is clearly a matter of (E), we just need to get better drivers, end of discussion.

In case not, here is what I just did:
I loaded the default loose setup and run a few laps, I could consistently do 54.5.
Then went to the tuning options and set the Front Spring Rate to the minimum value (240 N/mm) and the Rear to maximum (also 240), this should give me a lot of oversteer, probably making the car undriveable, right? I couldn't feel any of that, didn't seem to be different than before. My lap times were again consistent at 54.5.
Now I did the opposite, front springs at maximum (320) and rear springs to minimum (160), which should give a ton of understeer, right? Maybe there was some, but if there was it was very subtle and my lap times didn't change at all, still 54.5.

OK, then I thought that it's probably a case of A or B, my changes are not really used. But I then tried a silly value for front/right downforce (2/0) and now as expected I did get a ton of oversteer in the corners. Same with diff, I could easily make the car completely undriveable with oversteer. So it is not a matter of A or B.

About D, I can assure you I am not trolling, just want to figure out what is happening. That leaves us with C, which is plausible, but then again, ok I cannot feel the changes in springs, but shouldn't they at least have an impact on my lap times?

So, unless my lap times are extremely bad in the first place, then there must be something else going on. So can you please do a quick test as above to help us a bit? Thanks in advance!

can you do that again with TC off?

i have a feeling, if you loaded up the default loose setup first, and then made the changes based off of that, you're running 10% TC, which is pretty high. I went from a 50 to a 35 and at 35 the damn thing is pretty stuck to the ground.

That's my suspicion. Turn it to something like 75 / 80 or even off and then run your test again and see if the changes are more noticeable.

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 07:51
can you do that again with TC off?
i have a feeling, if you loaded up the default loose setup first, and then made the changes based off of that, you're running 10% TC, which is pretty high. I went from a 50 to a 35 and at 35 the damn thing is pretty stuck to the ground.
That's my suspicion. Turn it to something like 75 / 80 or even off and then run your test again and see if the changes are more noticeable.

Yes, I can certainly feel it a lot when I disable TC, or put it to a high value. But this only affects me (as expected), just when I'm going on throttle and only out of slow corners, nowhere else. Going from one extreme spring rate to the other extreme should be felt globally though, shouldn't it?

Rodders
17-10-2017, 08:38
I am not questioning your reasoning. I have a lot of the same issues loading. My question is I have different set ups for each track, I don't have multiple saved set ups for each track just 1. So you are saying I can only have a single set up for all tracks if I want to be safe? This would be unfortunate.

That's how I am doing it for now until the issues are fixed. Not saying there is not another way but this one seems to work so I'm sticking with it :)

hkraft300
17-10-2017, 08:55
... Going from one extreme spring rate to the other extreme should be felt globally though, shouldn't it?

Yes.
Or you're a bloody natural and are compensating for the handling balance :glee:

Do what Krus said to make sure you got the right tune loaded:
Oversteer setup with fuel load 30 litres, understeer setup with fuel load 35 litres (or whatever fuel).

Run some laps. You'll know which tune you're running and if it's loading correctly.

If not in TT, maybe try in private test mode?

Not sure what's going on with you mate, but I can (confirmed correct setup loaded) definitely feel a big difference in balance with subtle spring rate changes. Also just moving the damper transition about on a bumpy track the difference is huge!

bmanic
17-10-2017, 09:29
OK, then can you please do me a favor? Please go to TT at the Silverstone National with the 488 GT3 and log a good lap time, as in the last days a few of us run that a lot and we managed low 54s (mine best is 54,2). If you manage something like a 51s or 52s, then it is clearly a matter of (E), we just need to get better drivers, end of discussion.

In case not, here is what I just did:
I loaded the default loose setup and run a few laps, I could consistently do 54.5.
Then went to the tuning options and set the Front Spring Rate to the minimum value (240 N/mm) and the Rear to maximum (also 240), this should give me a lot of oversteer, probably making the car undriveable, right? I couldn't feel any of that, didn't seem to be different than before. My lap times were again consistent at 54.5.
Now I did the opposite, front springs at maximum (320) and rear springs to minimum (160), which should give a ton of understeer, right? Maybe there was some, but if there was it was very subtle and my lap times didn't change at all, still 54.5.

OK, then I thought that it's probably a case of A or B, my changes are not really used. But I then tried a silly value for front/right downforce (2/0) and now as expected I did get a ton of oversteer in the corners. Same with diff, I could easily make the car completely undriveable with oversteer. So it is not a matter of A or B.

About D, I can assure you I am not trolling, just want to figure out what is happening. That leaves us with C, which is plausible, but then again, ok I cannot feel the changes in springs, but shouldn't they at least have an impact on my lap times?

So, unless my lap times are extremely bad in the first place, then there must be something else going on. So can you please do a quick test as above to help us a bit? Thanks in advance!

That's not how you debug setups working or not working. Duh.. laptime can be extremely dependent on the driver, not the setup (as demonstrated by alien drivers in all sims over the years.. they can drive any setup much faster than you or I can).

You debug possibly buggy car setups by making them horrible/impossible to drive, on purpose.. which is definitely possible with most of the cars in pCars 2. Then you make the car really sluggish and understeery.. also possible with almost any car. That way you debug the setups. On my computer, it works perfectly. I can make cars insta-spin and can make them badly understeering horrible cars.

Conclusion: Setups make a massive difference and work just fine. (on my computer)

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 13:29
Yes.
Or you're a bloody natural and are compensating for the handling balance :glee:

Do what Krus said to make sure you got the right tune loaded:
Oversteer setup with fuel load 30 litres, understeer setup with fuel load 35 litres (or whatever fuel).

Run some laps. You'll know which tune you're running and if it's loading correctly.

If not in TT, maybe try in private test mode?

Not sure what's going on with you mate, but I can (confirmed correct setup loaded) definitely feel a big difference in balance with subtle spring rate changes. Also just moving the damper transition about on a bumpy track the difference is huge!

Yes, the correct setup gets loaded, because if I touch the diffs or downforce, I can easily make the car have huge oversteer. But no matter what I do with springs, I have no difference at all with them. Dampers I did not touch them at all yet, I'm not having success with springs, so I thought I'd better not further complicate things with something more sophisticated. Just to make sure we are on the same page, can you please spend 5 minutes doing what I did? Ferrari 488 GT3 in Silverstone National, first run front/rear springs min/max, then do the opposite, max/min. Do you see a considerable difference?

About me being a natural, I really like this explanation :)
But I don't think so, it may have to be with that I'm using a DFGT, which probably does not give detailed enough feedback, but then again this does not really matter, since I can follow the exact same lines in both cases listed above and have the exact same lap times. If those lap times were pathetic, then I would easily come up to the solution that it's my fault, I'm no way near the limit to feel any difference. That's why I asked someone better than me to try a drive around that track, too.

In any case, thanks for your input!

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 13:39
That's not how you debug setups working or not working. Duh.. laptime can be extremely dependent on the driver, not the setup (as demonstrated by alien drivers in all sims over the years.. they can drive any setup much faster than you or I can).

You debug possibly buggy car setups by making them horrible/impossible to drive, on purpose.. which is definitely possible with most of the cars in pCars 2. Then you make the car really sluggish and understeery.. also possible with almost any car. That way you debug the setups. On my computer, it works perfectly. I can make cars insta-spin and can make them badly understeering horrible cars.

Conclusion: Setups make a massive difference and work just fine. (on my computer)

But that's exactly what I am doing, trying to create and use horrible setups, with either complete understeer or complete oversteer. As I said, I first tested in default setup, then maxed front springs and put rear springs to minimum and the did then opposite. In all three cases, I could drive around the track in the exact same way, and if there were any differences, they were very subtle to impact my driving or lap times. With other setup options (downforce, diff, brake bias etc), the difference while driving is perfectly noticeable to me (can be huge actually).

I am not saying that setups are not making a massive difference, or that something does not work or it does. I just had this strange feeling a few days ago, that my spring changes did not make a difference at all, but I assumed it was somehow my fault and did not ask about that here. But in this thread, another person reported the exact same thing, so I started to think that maybe there's something tricky indeed. I don't understand what, that's why I decided to run some further tests and asked anyone interested to run the same test as I did and check if they see the same results with me or not. Just trying to investigate what's going on here.

Wayne Kerr
17-10-2017, 13:54
Yes, I can certainly feel it a lot when I disable TC, or put it to a high value. But this only affects me (as expected), just when I'm going on throttle and only out of slow corners, nowhere else. Going from one extreme spring rate to the other extreme should be felt globally though, shouldn't it?

same setup, TC frm 50 to 35, abs from 60 to 20
i went from 54.6 to 54.3, without touching anything else. I know it's not a 54 flat, but you get my point.

If you want it felt globally, I don't think silverstone would be the track to test it. Surface feels way too smooth.

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 14:27
same setup, TC frm 50 to 35, abs from 60 to 20
i went from 54.6 to 54.3, without touching anything else. I know it's not a 54 flat, but you get my point.

If you want it felt globally, I don't think silverstone would be the track to test it. Surface feels way too smooth.

Yeah, I get your point, but this discussion is not about TC/ABS, those setup items I can also feel them very well when I change them and they indeed make a huge difference also to me.
My issue (and Rossi's and another couple more people's in this thread) is with springs, whatever I do to them, I feel as if completely nothing has changed. Feeling wise and driving/lap time wise
Can you please also adjust springs yourself in the 488, do you feel they make a difference? I will try also other cars and see if they are different to me.

Btw, just to be completely clear: I am not complaining about the game or anything. I think it's fantastic, the almost 200 hours I have in it in just 3 weeks proves that I think :)
I am only trying to find out why I am seeing the results that I do and if it's me at fault, the game or something else. If it turns out to be the game's fault, this is not a big deal, it's only natural that there will be faults, in such a huge mind blowingly complex piece of software. But first let's try to find what's really the matter.

Wayne Kerr
17-10-2017, 15:14
i know the discussion isn't about tc / abs. But the fact that tc and abs can MASK the handling issues is something that should be looked at before claiming "i can't feel anything"

cpcdem
17-10-2017, 15:47
i know the discussion isn't about tc / abs. But the fact that tc and abs can MASK the handling issues is something that should be looked at before claiming "i can't feel anything"

Fair enough, I just made a new test: Put TC to 100 (so not TC) and ABS to 0 (so no ABS), also put front springs to minimum and rear to maximum. What changed, is that (as expected) I cannot go full throttle out of the slow corners due to the lack of TC, but apart from that I have absolutely no oversteer at all, in the fast right hander I can go on throttle very quickly as before and only issue I am having actually is understeer, turning through that corner (as is the case also with the completely default setup). Also I am blocking my wheels due to no ABS, so it's very difficult to trail brake in turn 2/3, but again no oversteer at all under braking (brake bias is default). Then put the opposite values in springs, max at the front and min as the rear, I can't notice any change at all while driving.

Guys, please don't take my word for this, just try this yourselves. At least with that car, do you indeed see springs making a difference, without touching anything else?

Roger Prynne
17-10-2017, 16:03
I wish somebody would bloody try it so we can put this to bed.

Rossi46 (NL)
17-10-2017, 18:26
Hey you should plug in these settings I dialed in on my CSL Elite. I own an FRS and was able to compare in game to my real car to dial my settings in and replicate that same accuracy in almost all cars. If you like your FFB feeling like cars actually feel you should at least plug these in and see if they work for you. These are a step above any other combination I've tried.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54382-Fanatec-CSL-Elite-Force-Feedback-Settings

Tried your settings and they are a bit to light for me, but thnx anyway.

Yesterday i deleted all my setups. Did some laps with the Ferarri 488 GT3 on the RedBull ring with the "Loose" setup. I was 1 second slower than my fastest laptime 1:32.100 , so i suppose the setup is doing something. (downforce, diffs and gearing etc.)
Then i tried to load the "Stable" setup and got back on track, back in pits the "Loose" setup was loaded again and i tried this several times. So all i did i just couldn't get the "stable" setup loaded.
I made a new setup with all front springs, dampers etc to minimal and the rears at maximum and saved it as a new setup called "LooseMinMax" , but i just can't feel the changes.
Got out of the game, restarted it and tried another track with the 488 GT3......"Loose" setup was loaded......after a lap went back to pits and.........pffff.......the "LooseMinMax" was suddenly loaded, and still no direct difference noticable.

I don't tell fairytales.....don't want to bash the game.....this is my own experience with it, sorry! :beaten:

I always loved Project Cars 1 and had very high expectations from Project Cars 2 so bought it directly when pre-order was available, i just want the same fun i had with the first.
When preparing for a endurance or league race on Pcars1 me and my racing mate Huiboh where practicing a lot and discussed setups and we could make the best of it, and always fine-tuned it. I also used Jussi's suspension calculator a lot for it. But for some reason the tuning is not working correctly for us in Pcars2.
Don't know what is happening but maybe has something to do with saving/loading setups, like the game always loads the "default" setup in the background.

Rossi46 (NL)
17-10-2017, 20:10
So i got back to Project Cars 1 tonight and i could F-up my setups just by changing the springs......but to be sure i changed everything to different values and all the cars became undrivable. Many hours of tuning gone in 60 seconds :p
I honestly must say i have never driven pcars1 with my new wheel, but before changing any setups i could drive some clean laps like before.
So I can conclude that nothing is wrong with my feeling.....

blinkngone
17-10-2017, 21:38
So i got back to Project Cars 1 tonight and i could F-up my setups just by changing the springs......but to be sure i changed everything to different values and all the cars became undrivable. Many hours of tuning gone in 60 seconds :p
I honestly must say i have never driven pcars1 with my new wheel, but before changing any setups i could drive some clean laps like before.
So I can conclude that nothing is wrong with my feeling.....

Hi Rossi46, I am sorry you are having the issues with the new game. Have you tried deleting EVERYTHING and starting over?

bmanic
18-10-2017, 00:56
Just to be 100% clear:

Are we talking about car setup settings in general or the springs and dampers only?

EDIT: Just asking because at least these setup things work just fine:

Ferrari 488 GT3

Springs
Wing
Toe
Camber
Height / Rake (very effective)
Tire type
Tire pressure
ARB (front and rear)
Steering Ratio
Differential (tested the default one)

I have yet to confirm dampers as they are more of a finetune for my way of setting up the Ferrari 488 GT3 platform around Silverstone National.

How do I know the Springs work? Simple, they very effectively control the aerodynamics of the car. It's very easy to screw it all up for the first turn, either by making the car insta-spin or understeer off into the distance. Getting that delicate turn-in balance requires fine tuning of the springs and ride height.

As for laptime.. I was consistently running 54.3 or 54.4 laps with the default Loose setup. The problem with that setup in terms of my driving style is that I can't get a steep enough turn-in to the first corner which is critical for laptime. So I needed a car that turns-in nicely at high speed but is still stable enough at the various low-speed trail-brake corners (virtually all of the slow ones). So I modified the setup.. a lot. Instant betterment of time down to consistent 54.1xx and 54.0xx. My best was a 53.960 which currently stands as the World Record for the Ferrari 488 GT3 around Silverstone National. This would equal to about a second improvement around a longer more complex track. A second of improvement by simply tweaking the car setup is pretty much exactly in line with how it should be.. I'm not a great driver so I'm not benefiting that much from setup changes. It's all very track dependent though. Silverstone National is such a bad test track for setup testing.. it's pretty much useless for that in my opinion. There's at least another 3 or 4 tenths for me to gain if I actually practice the layout and get my drivinglines and braking points consistent.

The idea that simply changing the setup would gain an additional 1 or 2 seconds around this short circuit is definitely based completely in fantasy. We need an actual alien driver to set a benchmark time so that us mere mortals could see what a good driver can do around that circuit. I suspect it's in the high 52.xxx range.

Krus Control
18-10-2017, 02:27
I can vouch that at least for me springs and dampers work as intended. I've balanced out a few setups and never had any problems with changes not happening since I figured out how to reliably save and apply setups. And my go to thing is springs and dampers. Has worked beautifully for me. The setup system has been extremely sensitive and precise where you can make a series of small changes to have an overall huge effect if you know what you're doing. Whatever is going on here it's not that setups aren't working for anybody. I've posted 2 second gains from balancing out setups in some classes.

Huiboh
18-10-2017, 05:14
Just to be 100% clear:

Are we talking about car setup settings in general or the springs and dampers only?



- For me it looks like that there is the problem! Springs and dampers seem not to work at all. As i said it works if i have deleted all Setups in the folder "tuningsetups".
- Fuelload changings get applied randomly also with multiple setups it works sometimes. But its almost working all time with reloading a saved setup (i can see this changing directly in race at the dashboard)

- Differencial changings get applied randomly. (tried much different cars with LSD and locked differential. thats a very important setting for cornering and braking out of huge speeds)

- Engine/ Gearing changings randomly. (all over gear changes for me much times of itsself in the values of the tuningmenu. But the Topspeed, the gear switching speeds does not change in this case. but randomly it works if i change it my self)

- Tyre/ Brakes changings get applied randomly. (Tyrepressure for example is viewable directly in the next run on track. The values get changed there had no issues with it if it changed. But sometimes it doesnt load my setup. Also Brakecooling is changing randomly. you see it fast after 2-3 laps in practice-sessions)

In my case it doesnt make a difference in which gamemode i change setups. They get loaded randomly. We know for sure that someone who doesnt know how to setup a car, can make much misstakes and get a really undriveable or weird behaving car.

I am Car-Mechanics-Master and Teacher for Car-Mechanics in real life. I have driven much different cars, slow and really fast ones, i have also tuned them in real life and little changings can get enormous consequences in driving behavior of an car! My all day car is a BMW which came with a M-Technics Suspension pack. I have switched from this suspension to a Eibach/Bilstein Suspension. And the difference of car feeling/ behavior was huge although the changings of Springrate and Dampingrate isnt very high if you read the datasheets. Rossi is very experienced in ART-Racinggroup. He won much of our league Races at Pcars1, went allways at the places 1-5 and he was able to setup every car to behavior driveable. What i just want to say, we are not the tuning-cracks in front of god for games but we know the basics and a bit more.

The Question is not how to setup a car or how to feel if the setup works. The Main-Question is:

How to get the multiple Setupfiles working properly? And how can we give you data of the game (from our pc) and which game data do you need to show us, if the game is working properly in this case?

At the moment i cant remember who wrote this tipp to start the game as Admin. I will test it this evening and i will also turn off my Firewall for the gamefolders and the Virusscanner for it. I have installed the game to the Standardgamefolder, that shouldnt be an issue. But maybe its an issue that my Documents-Data is on a different Drive (also a physical different drive, not only a different partition). For example the game is installed at C: and the Documents are saved at D:. But i am almost sure rossi has both data on C:. I guess he will tell us soon, this day. The biggest difference of my PC and Rossis is that i use Win7 Pro 64-Bit and he uses a Win-10 64-Bit version as long i know. So its also not an issue of the operating system i guess.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 08:13
Just to be 100% clear:

Are we talking about car setup settings in general or the springs and dampers only?

EDIT: Just asking because at least these setup things work just fine:

Ferrari 488 GT3

Springs
Wing
Toe
Camber
Height / Rake (very effective)
Tire type
Tire pressure
ARB (front and rear)
Steering Ratio
Differential (tested the default one)



As I said before, I am only talking about springs. I have not tested much toe and camber yet, so I don't have an opinion on them, but the other setup items you mentioned do make a huge difference in handling, feel and performance to me. But not springs, at least not in handling balance. If they are indeed making a difference, then it is very subtle for me to feel it. I suspect it was toned down a lot, and personally I have no problem with that if that's the case, toning down setup options helps a lot avoiding people abusing and exploiting them (which was a nightmare in PC1 and other sims), so I wouldn't mind even if other setup items got more toned down.

I tried your setup, it's very good, managed a 53.9 with it. But then I messed up completely your springs, put them to 320/160 and I could still do the same lap time, without noticing a handling difference. Actually I was a tenth or twn down at some point, until I overdrove the last corner. Personal opinion, but I think your setup is not so good because of the springs, I think it's the diff that you have nailed it perfectly!

Roger Prynne
18-10-2017, 08:44
I have installed the game to the Standard game folder, that shouldn't be an issue. But maybe its an issue that my Documents-Data is on a different Drive (also a physical different drive, not only a different partition). For example the game is installed at C: and the Documents are saved at D:. But i am almost sure rossi has both data on C:

I have the Steam folder on a different drive and my Documents on another drive and have no problems at all.

bmanic
18-10-2017, 12:17
- For me it looks like that there is the problem! Springs and dampers seem not to work at all. As i said it works if i have deleted all Setups in the folder "tuningsetups".
- Fuelload changings get applied randomly also with multiple setups it works sometimes. But its almost working all time with reloading a saved setup (i can see this changing directly in race at the dashboard)

- Differencial changings get applied randomly. (tried much different cars with LSD and locked differential. thats a very important setting for cornering and braking out of huge speeds)

- Engine/ Gearing changings randomly. (all over gear changes for me much times of itsself in the values of the tuningmenu. But the Topspeed, the gear switching speeds does not change in this case. but randomly it works if i change it my self)

- Tyre/ Brakes changings get applied randomly. (Tyrepressure for example is viewable directly in the next run on track. The values get changed there had no issues with it if it changed. But sometimes it doesnt load my setup. Also Brakecooling is changing randomly. you see it fast after 2-3 laps in practice-sessions)

In my case it doesnt make a difference in which gamemode i change setups. They get loaded randomly. We know for sure that someone who doesnt know how to setup a car, can make much misstakes and get a really undriveable or weird behaving car.

I am Car-Mechanics-Master and Teacher for Car-Mechanics in real life. I have driven much different cars, slow and really fast ones, i have also tuned them in real life and little changings can get enormous consequences in driving behavior of an car! My all day car is a BMW which came with a M-Technics Suspension pack. I have switched from this suspension to a Eibach/Bilstein Suspension. And the difference of car feeling/ behavior was huge although the changings of Springrate and Dampingrate isnt very high if you read the datasheets. Rossi is very experienced in ART-Racinggroup. He won much of our league Races at Pcars1, went allways at the places 1-5 and he was able to setup every car to behavior driveable. What i just want to say, we are not the tuning-cracks in front of god for games but we know the basics and a bit more.

The Question is not how to setup a car or how to feel if the setup works. The Main-Question is:

How to get the multiple Setupfiles working properly? And how can we give you data of the game (from our pc) and which game data do you need to show us, if the game is working properly in this case?

At the moment i cant remember who wrote this tipp to start the game as Admin. I will test it this evening and i will also turn off my Firewall for the gamefolders and the Virusscanner for it. I have installed the game to the Standardgamefolder, that shouldnt be an issue. But maybe its an issue that my Documents-Data is on a different Drive (also a physical different drive, not only a different partition). For example the game is installed at C: and the Documents are saved at D:. But i am almost sure rossi has both data on C:. I guess he will tell us soon, this day. The biggest difference of my PC and Rossis is that i use Win7 Pro 64-Bit and he uses a Win-10 64-Bit version as long i know. So its also not an issue of the operating system i guess.

Is this a universal problem for all cars or just the Ferrari 488 GT3? Just trying to narrow it down.

If it's universal for all cars then it's very easy to show on a video. Take any high downforce car and create a few variations of setups.. some that instantly spins you around as soon as you turn the steering wheel (very easy to create) and some that understeers like crazy. Show all this in a video with multiple setups.

Possible bug: Every time you hit the "Return to pit" button, it's possible you need to reload the car setup again to get it working. Personally I don't seem to suffer from this problem but it's something I do none-the-less.

I really hope the developers put a small group of dedicated people on the case because "data management, saving and reloading" is one of the most broken parts of their software in general. It seems to always cause problems ever since the very first Madness engine titles. :(

It seems to be notoriously difficult to track down and get consistent data from one user to another. Probably because there are so many variables, starting with operating system and user/admin rights to file saving and loading.

bmanic
18-10-2017, 12:21
I tried your setup, it's very good, managed a 53.9 with it. But then I messed up completely your springs, put them to 320/160 and I could still do the same lap time, without noticing a handling difference. Actually I was a tenth or twn down at some point, until I overdrove the last corner. Personal opinion, but I think your setup is not so good because of the springs, I think it's the diff that you have nailed it perfectly!

The springs are only there to balance the AERODYNAMICS of the underbody (hence why I can have so little wings). I think you are completely dismissing that part of the equation. It's NOT my differential settings that makes it stable, it's the aerodynamics.. which are controlled by the springs. Simply changing to 320/160 doesn't make a huge difference as the dampers are so stiff so the whole system isn't moving around.. That setup is already running the softest front.. now try messing with the ride height and you'll quite quickly notice how big role the aerodynamics play.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 13:21
The springs are only there to balance the AERODYNAMICS of the underbody (hence why I can have so little wings). I think you are completely dismissing that part of the equation. It's NOT my differential settings that makes it stable, it's the aerodynamics.. which are controlled by the springs. Simply changing to 320/160 doesn't make a huge difference as the dampers are so stiff so the whole system isn't moving around.. That setup is already running the softest front.. now try messing with the ride height and you'll quite quickly notice how big role the aerodynamics play.

Yeah, as I said before, ride height like other tuning items do make a difference to me. Only springs don't. I can put them to any value and feel absolutely no difference in the balance of the car. I also thought about this, that springs only affect aerodynamics, which is plausible. And I am fine with it, I actually prefer it if it's that case, because it would simplify setting up the cars, one less thing to worry about when trying to get a good balance. But if indeed springs do not affect mechanical grip, then I think this needs to be known, because many tuning guides suggest otherwise, so it can confuse people (like me!). But as I said, it's perfectly fine with me if it works like that in PC2.

Krus Control
18-10-2017, 13:36
Yeah, as I said before, ride height like other tuning items do make a difference to me. Only springs don't. I can put them to any value and feel absolutely no difference in the balance of the car. I also thought about this, that springs only affect aerodynamics, which is plausible. And I am fine with it, I actually prefer it if it's that case, because it would simplify setting up the cars, one less thing to worry about when trying to get a good balance. But if indeed springs do not affect mechanical grip, then I think this needs to be known, because many tuning guides suggest otherwise, so it can confuse people (like me!). But as I said, it's perfectly fine with me if it works like that in PC2.

Springs definitely do affect overall mechanical grip, oversteer understeer balance, body roll, and the way the car transitions between corners (though this is more dampers). You can post gains in laptimes just by tweaking springs and dampers and nothing else to increase mechanical grip.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 13:46
Springs definitely do affect overall mechanical grip, oversteer understeer balance, body roll, and the way the car transitions between corners (though this is more dampers). You can post gains in laptimes just by tweaking springs and dampers and nothing else to increase mechanical grip.

RL or in game?

Krus Control
18-10-2017, 13:50
RL or in game?

For me this is working in game.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 15:11
For me this is working in game.

OK, thanks for your input. Then it may have to do with we're possibly using different cars (I've practically used only GT3/GT4 so far), or some other reason (lack of talent is admittedly a possibility :)) prevents me from feeling changes in mechanical grip through spring adjustments. Will keep an eye open about this.

Rodders
18-10-2017, 15:35
I mentioned this earlier but might have gotten lost in the noise - multiple setups for the same car is buggy atm meaning you can have no confidence the tuning change you just made is actually applied to the car. To avoid it have one tune only for each car saved in the All Tracks folder and just edit it per track. Not ideal but the only way I've found to get tunes working reliably each time. Otherwise it's a lottery.

I was using the "Save to new" then overwrite a previous setup method before but it fell on it's arse and started doing all sorts of wierd things (like simultaneously saving to 10 different tune config files when I tried to save a single tune then loading seemingly random settings on my car when I tried to reload a tune).

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 15:42
Thanks Rodders, but it's not that, every other setup change I can feel it immediately. I've found my ways to work around this setup saving problem and this always works for me now, but just in case I also deleted all my previous setups and started fresh.

Rossi46 (NL)
18-10-2017, 15:55
Hi Rossi46, I am sorry you are having the issues with the new game. Have you tried deleting EVERYTHING and starting over?

Reinstalling everything right now.....
Can i put back steam cloud backups?

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 19:07
Reinstalling everything right now.....
Can i put back steam cloud backups?

Can you wait until you've reinstalled everything and tested it first? I don't use steam cloud backups.

Rossi46 (NL)
18-10-2017, 20:48
Can you wait until you've reinstalled everything and tested it first? I don't use steam cloud backups.

Too late :rolleyes:
But only my careerstatus did reload, graphic and wheel settings not. And all my setups are deleted.
And i did some testing tonight on the Red Bull Ring:
after every setup test i deleted the setup and made a new one. I am almost out of options........
243193

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 21:26
Now I am really sorry you wasted all that time. Are you still using the same FFB? Tried both Raw and Custom? Plug in a gamepad, different wheel?

Rossi46 (NL)
18-10-2017, 21:35
Now I am really sorry you wasted all that time. Are you still using the same FFB? Tried both Raw and Custom?

I followed these settings http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51955-FFB-settings-for-Fanatec-Wheels

I tried RAW and Informative. A couple of days ago i used the Jack Spade Stand Mid Comp files. But i was getting some oscillation with the wheel.
Racing should be some sort of stress relief after a day work, but not at this way......

I tried my old T300 on release but the same issue, maybe even worse. The T300 was not working properly. It was my 4th T300 and died three weeks ago, didn't wanted a 5th copy and got a full refund. So i bought the Fanatec CSL Elite ps4 bundle.

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 22:06
I guess you've tried using different usb ports, I have a Fanatec wheel and sometimes the port quits so I switch. Also I am using USB 2.0. Oh I forgot you said you can go back and forth between the first game and it works fine and then when you go back to the new game the problem starts. Since March I have had to completely start over 3 times with the first game because my setups got corrupted. I di what you just did and I was fine. I haven't had the problems you described so my problems were insignificant. When it came time to install Project cars 2 I completely deleted PCars 1 because I didn't want to risk them mucking with each, good thing you didn't do the same or you would have no working game.

hkraft300
18-10-2017, 22:42
For a definitive test of the spring rate changes working:

Set springs minimum, ride height Max, wings Max.
Go down a long straight to reach 250 kmh, read the ride height on telemetry screen (rough) or record on telemetry app (vrhive has data logging)

Set springs to Max, repeat.

cpcdem
18-10-2017, 23:03
For a definitive test of the spring rate changes working:

Set springs minimum, ride height Max, wings Max.
Go down a long straight to reach 250 kmh, read the ride height on telemetry screen (rough) or record on telemetry app (vrhive has data logging)

Set springs to Max, repeat.

Nobody denies that the math is correct...the question is if they translate to changeable driving behavior/feel in game.

hkraft300
18-10-2017, 23:08
Spring rate changes that affect balance can be compensated by Aero, damping, diff changes.
Go full default setup and play with the springs.
Especially in an old/road car with no downforce and little grip. The 488 is probably just a bloody great platform and tires to not greatly affect the handling, or the spring rate changes aren't drastic enough.

Krus Control
19-10-2017, 01:08
Okay I just took the 488 GT3 out and messed around with springs and dampers. And I felt a definite difference between the highest settings and the lowest. But it is extremely subtle. There is basically no range to move the springs in. Front springs range from 240-320 and rears are 160-240. This is a pretty small difference. Also this chassis just seems extremely composed and the entire platform seems really well optimized like hkraft300 was saying.

But it definitely left me scratching my head for a minute like "wait but did it actually change?"

I can't really speak for how this car is to tune IRL because I have zero experience with cars like this. But it seems like it's working to me. Maybe the changes in springs get muffled somehow in the game or maybe it's like that in real life; I'm not the guy to say whether this is the case.

What I can say is that changes, when they're actually applied, to the springs and dampers are causing the types of things that you would expect to happen when you change them. In other words; it works.

blinkngone
19-10-2017, 08:35
Nobody denies that the math is correct...the question is if they translate to changeable driving behavior/feel in game.

cpcdem

The Ford Fusion at Monza oval is setup wrong. Drive it yourself. Springs, tires etc. set to go left, track goes right.

cpcdem
19-10-2017, 15:17
The Ford Fusion at Monza oval is setup wrong. Drive it yourself. Springs, tires etc. set to go left, track goes right.

Pheww, what a difficult car to drive! But it's very difficult to run into conclusions from this one, so I tried a more conventional car, the F50 which also allows a wide range of settings for suspensions. I tried putting the rear suspension to it's min to max values (25-105), and this time I could indeed easily feel the difference, 25 is a bit understeery and 105 a bit oversteery. Not quite as much a difference in feel as I would expect from a 4x difference in spring strength, but it certainly is very noticeable and it also reflected on my lap times, I was a lot quicker with the stiff rear suspension.

So I think it's what Krus said. For the 488, the range allowed for springs (front 240-320 and rear 160-240) is not enough to make the difference practically noticeable, at least not to me. But in cars that allow wider ranges in settings, you can adjust springs and do get much different driving behavior from them. I have not ever driven a real racing car to be able to know how much adjustment in springs is needed to make enough of a difference in real life, maybe someone with real experience can step in. In any case, now I know what's going on and I am absolutely OK with it. Thanks to all for your input!

blinkngone
19-10-2017, 17:00
Pheww, what a difficult car to drive! But it's very difficult to run into conclusions from this one, so I tried a more conventional car, the F50 which also allows a wide range of settings for suspensions. I tried putting the rear suspension to it's min to max values (25-105), and this time I could indeed easily feel the difference, 25 is a bit understeery and 105 a bit oversteery. Not quite as much a difference in feel as I would expect from a 4x difference in spring strength, but it certainly is very noticeable and it also reflected on my lap times, I was a lot quicker with the stiff rear suspension.

So I think it's what Krus said. For the 488, the range allowed for springs (front 240-320 and rear 160-240) is not enough to make the difference practically noticeable, at least not to me. But in cars that allow wider ranges in settings, you can adjust springs and do get much different driving behavior from them. I have not ever driven a real racing car to be able to know how much adjustment in springs is needed to make enough of a difference in real life, maybe someone with real experience can step in. In any case, now I know what's going on and I am absolutely OK with it. Thanks to all for your input!

Yeah, maybe someday we can have a larger range on the Ferrari, the range of the springs on the AM Vantage is much more.

Rossi46 (NL)
19-10-2017, 19:18
Pheww, what a difficult car to drive! But it's very difficult to run into conclusions from this one, so I tried a more conventional car, the F50 which also allows a wide range of settings for suspensions. I tried putting the rear suspension to it's min to max values (25-105), and this time I could indeed easily feel the difference, 25 is a bit understeery and 105 a bit oversteery. Not quite as much a difference in feel as I would expect from a 4x difference in spring strength, but it certainly is very noticeable and it also reflected on my lap times, I was a lot quicker with the stiff rear suspension.

So I think it's what Krus said. For the 488, the range allowed for springs (front 240-320 and rear 160-240) is not enough to make the difference practically noticeable, at least not to me. But in cars that allow wider ranges in settings, you can adjust springs and do get much different driving behavior from them. I have not ever driven a real racing car to be able to know how much adjustment in springs is needed to make enough of a difference in real life, maybe someone with real experience can step in. In any case, now I know what's going on and I am absolutely OK with it. Thanks to all for your input!

I did try the F50 GT today on Zhuhai and could notice the understeer with 25 springs and the oversteer with 105 springs on the rear.................
I also changed my ffb a bit, used the Jack Spade's "Stan Low Comp DD" and the "Stan Low Comp" with the values 100-30-50-40-0.20 ingame and it was not getting worse.

Did the same test with the Ferarri 488 GT3 on Zhuhai and i have small doubts if i could feel the same.
Finally i did some other test, a complete mixup of all the damper settings. And i couldn't get any strange behavior from this car, at some points i was even quicker.....this isn't normal.

243293

blinkngone
19-10-2017, 20:29
I did try the F50 GT today on Zhuhai and could notice the understeer with 25 springs and the oversteer with 105 springs on the rear.................
I also changed my ffb a bit, used the Jack Spade's "Stan Low Comp DD" and the "Stan Low Comp" with the values 100-30-50-40-0.20 ingame and it was not getting worse.

Did the same test with the Ferarri 488 GT3 on Zhuhai and i have small doubts if i could feel the same.
Finally i did some other test, a complete mixup of all the damper settings. And i couldn't get any strange behavior from this car, at some points i was even quicker.....this isn't normal.

243293

Sorry Rossi, The Fusion at Monza is really bad because you have hundreds of pounds of spring forces to play with. Mojave Coyote Noose is the small semi oval, take the Ferrari there and lower the left side springs and raise the right side springs. Then reverse this and you should see a difference. When you have the springs max high on inside and max low outside the car should push outside and mess up over the hill when you go into the bowl it should also push you toward the wall.

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 13:10
Sorry Rossi, The Fusion at Monza is really bad because you have hundreds of pounds of spring forces to play with. Mojave Coyote Noose is the small semi oval, take the Ferrari there and lower the left side springs and raise the right side springs. Then reverse this and you should see a difference. When you have the springs max high on inside and max low outside the car should push outside and mess up over the hill when you go into the bowl it should also push you toward the wall.

I tried your suggestion to drive on Mojave Coyote Noose (0:32's high) with the Ferarri 488 GT3 and i really wish you where right, but i still can't notice any difference in car handling with the suspensions like you told. Also tried different ffb flavours. I did test several times and i am really starting to get sick of all this testing and testing all over again. The whole week i didn't do a normal race........
I just want to race and tune in a normal way like the game is intended.
Maybe after 850+ hours of racing and tuning in Project Cars 1 i lost it completely..... :p

After you uncheck symmetrical setup in the tuning menu and save the setup, then come back to pits to work on the same setup the symmetrical box is checked again, is this correct?
And when i started the game today and tried Mojave Coyote Noose the default "loose" setup for the 488 GT3 was loaded (didn't had a setup saved for this track) and the next time i got back to the tuning menu my "mixtest" setup from Zhuhai was loaded wich i made yesterday.
So there is definitly something wrong.
In the beginning of the week i reinstalled the game completely and deleted all my setups and run the game as administrator like adviced.
I am lost at this point.........again.

Will try another car soon when i have the chance.

RomKnight
20-10-2017, 13:42
I didn't read anything but last two posts and I supposed it's been said but, you're saving the setup every time you change something to a new slot aren't you?

I believe there's a bug from what I read wrt this setups loads, saves.

Krus Control
20-10-2017, 14:09
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but the only way to be certain you've applied setup changes is as follows:

1. Save setup as new setup and name or overwrite

2. Load that setup

3. Save over existing setup

4 (optional). Change your fuel load by 1 click so when you drive the car you can immediately see if the setup change you made actually happened.

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 14:35
Hi Rossi, sorry, you can only use "save to new" and rename. You should never use save to exisiting until SMS says it's ok with a new patch. Yes it defaults back to symmetrical except with the Fusion Daytona/Monza Historic oval car(only one I know of so far there could be others). Yes sometimes it will load a setup you don't want, like same car different track. It might be picking up similar letters so if I have "Ferarrisilnat"(for Silverstone National) and I use "Ferraricoyn"(for Mojave Coyote Noose) it might load it. I think what it is trying to do give us a "Save All" like we had in PC1 since we don't have a specific option for this any more. I don't remember PC1 ever trying to load a setup from the wrong track/different car though. Once you have begun running more tracks the track list will start to populate so you can select a setup from another track you like that is similar to the one you want to run saving you time reentering every parameter, then just save it with a new name and edit the changes you want. Sometimes the set up that loads first is the last one you ran regardless of which track you are on. You kind of get used to this stuff the more times you run and it becomes your "new normal" with how to get things done. Sure I get frustrated but I still manage without joining the endless posts of frustration in General. You are not alone.

The feeling thing is something else. That is what is confusing everybody because you are the only one reporting the specific issue. It's like most people don't have cancer and you do. They don't understand your problem, it doesn't mean you don't have cancer.
It seems like it almost has to be in the FFB. I'm sure you installed the latest Fanatec firmware but it couldn't hurt to delete this and try again just to eliminate the firmware as an issue for everybody trying to help.

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 14:39
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but the only way to be certain you've applied setup changes is as follows:

1. Save setup as new setup and name or overwrite

2. Load that setup

3. Save over existing setup

4 (optional). Change your fuel load by 1 click so when you drive the car you can immediately see if the setup change you made actually happened.

1. Save setup as new setup and name or overwrite Yes

2. Load that setup Yes

3. Save over existing setup Yes

4 (optional). Change your fuel load by 1 click so when you drive the car you can immediately see if the setup change you made actually happened. also yes......

5 I always double check it by driving a few meters and go back to pits too see what setup was loaded and go back to track to test again....and again.

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 14:44
It seems like it almost has to be in the FFB. I'm sure you installed the latest Fanatec firmware but it couldn't hurt to delete this and try again just to eliminate the firmware as an issue for everybody trying to help.

yes i installed the latest drivers V293 and firmware V335 and tried different ffb flavours and settings today.
And my racing mate Huiboh has the same issues with also a Fanatec CSL Elite, only i have the newer ps4 version. (12 days old)

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 15:04
Ok sorry.

Link to how to save set ups.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55982-How-to-Save-Setups-in-Tuning

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 15:27
Ok sorry.

Link to how to save set ups.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55982-How-to-Save-Setups-in-Tuning

No need to say sorry mate, i am glad everybody is helping.
Thnx for the link.

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 15:52
Hi Rossi, I found this it's in German but he has settings he recommends for your wheel and PC2. Slap me if you've already seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZ7rTE3Ee8

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 15:56
Hi Rossi, I found this it's in German but he has settings he recommends for your wheel and PC2. Slap me if you've already seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZ7rTE3Ee8

Nah....i won't slap you :p
Huiboh is from germany and he can translate it for me. I will take a look! Thnx

cpcdem
20-10-2017, 16:07
To be fair to Rossi, he is not alone in seeing this problem, I was also discussing the exact same thing for 2 pages of posts :)
Rossi, my suggestion is for the 488 to not try to alter its balance through springs, it is simply not sensitive at all to such changes. Instead, try adjusting balance through front/rear downforce levels, differential and anti roll bars. You will have success with those.

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 16:22
To be fair to Rossi, he is not alone in seeing this problem, I was also discussing the exact same thing for 2 pages of posts :)
Rossi, my suggestion is for the 488 to not try to alter its balance through springs, it is simply not sensitive at all to such changes. Instead, try adjusting balance through front/rear downforce levels, differential and anti roll bars. You will have success with those.

I know but he isn't enjoying the game like you are. His problem does seem to be worse than mine, I can feel differences but to me the cars all remind me of the BMW V12 LMR from PC1 . Mostly I just notice my lap time improvement or failure with setting changes and he isn't even getting these yet. Didn't you think the Fusion was a handful? It's settings were wrong and extreme. Rossi's Coyote test didn't really give him anything and that was a similar to the Fusion but only had 1/3 of the spring pressure difference so nothing.

I just want him to have fun and get into the game.

cpcdem
20-10-2017, 16:26
Agreed, but I think his issues are only with cars like the 488. If he forgets about springs (and only springs) in this car, he will have fun. Worked for me :)

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 16:28
Agreed, but I think his issues are only with cars like the 488. If he forgets about springs (and only springs) in this car, he will have fun. Worked for me :)

Dampers also do nothing for me. But when i change dampers in pcars1 i can mess up every good setup.
And maybe i am sticking too much with the 488 GT3....... (but it sounds and looks so good :p )

Huiboh
20-10-2017, 16:29
Hey guys, for me its the same as to rossi. Since i turned on the Administrator Gamestart its saving and loading different tuningsetups, but it does that randomly. So it also loads setups from different tracks to the current one where i never started before in this game. It should be loaded the default setting "loose" or "stable", i guess. And if i try to load them, I cant load the default setups anymore. On some Cars i get a different car behavior with different spring and Swaybar settings. Most times like expected. So i am not sure if the physics are working properly but it looks like for the cars ive tested.

But i will stop that testing stuff now. I am getting really sick of it! I spend hours and hours in this game (about 100h for now) and i couldnt finish only one race with a feeling that made me happy to play this game. Multiplayer lobbies dont work for me anyways, if its one with quali and race or practice, quali and race (its why i bought that game, just to race with the ART-Guys). The Developers seem not interested to help or to give tipps or to check some game- and operation system settings which may cause these issues. They should help with that! There is definately something not working like it should be working. And i am feeling really mad i bought the collectors box, payd them much money because i liked pcars1 that much and now we get a "finished" "released" Game, where the AI, the Multiplayer, the multiple Setups, the Graphics and the FFB bugs. That wouldnt be that worse, if there would be some help of the partners which programmed this game. For me its no fun at all. So i stick to other car games. Sad that i bought it. :(

But thank you all for all your help and tips you gave and the time you spended to help.

cpcdem
20-10-2017, 16:32
Dampers also do nothing for me. But when i change dampers in pcars1 i can mess up every good setup.
And maybe i am sticking too much with the 488 GT3....... (but it sounds and looks so good :p )

Yeah, I also like it a lot! And yes the sound...although the F50 sounds even better!
Forget about springs and dampers in the 488, use the rest and you will be a happy man :)

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 17:13
Hey guys, for me its the same as to rossi. Since i turned on the Administrator Gamestart its saving and loading different tuningsetups, but it does that randomly. So it also loads setups from different tracks to the current one where i never started before in this game. It should be loaded the default setting "loose" or "stable", i guess. And if i try to load them, I cant load the default setups anymore. On some Cars i get a different car behavior with different spring and Swaybar settings. Most times like expected. So i am not sure if the physics are working properly but it looks like for the cars ive tested.

But i will stop that testing stuff now. I am getting really sick of it! I spend hours and hours in this game (about 100h for now) and i couldnt finish only one race with a feeling that made me happy to play this game. Multiplayer lobbies dont work for me anyways, if its one with quali and race or practice, quali and race (its why i bought that game, just to race with the ART-Guys). The Developers seem not interested to help or to give tipps or to check some game- and operation system settings which may cause these issues. They should help with that! There is definately something not working like it should be working. And i am feeling really mad i bought the collectors box, payd them much money because i liked pcars1 that much and now we get a "finished" "released" Game, where the AI, the Multiplayer, the multiple Setups, the Graphics and the FFB bugs. That wouldnt be that worse, if there would be some help of the partners which programmed this game. For me its no fun at all. So i stick to other car games. Sad that i bought it. :(

But thank you all for all your help and tips you gave and the time you spended to help.

Huiboh, maybe you can come back when everything is working better. I searched but the German FFB setup was the only one I could find, the game is still new.

cpcdem
20-10-2017, 17:18
Huiboh, maybe you can come back when everything is working better. I searched but the German FFB setup was the only one I could find, the game is still new.

Agreed. There's a patch coming on, maybe it will be next week hopefully. I am sure this will take care of many of the issues, be a bit more patient!

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 17:33
And now my wheel is suddenly pulling to the left when in a menu or starting a practice session. I am constantly feeling a bit of a pull to the left and when i release the wheel at the start it is turning all the way untill it stops.
It is happening only in Project CARS 2, not in Assetto Corsa or rFactor2......... Raw, informative or immersive, custom no difference. FFB Volume, tone and fx settings still the same.
was there a small patch change? V2.0.0.1.0894.AVX
this weekend i will reinstall my whole pc and games.

blinkngone
20-10-2017, 17:41
Hi Rossi, wow.:( Good luck, I see in your sig you have the right philosophy.:)

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 18:07
And now my wheel is suddenly pulling to the left when in a menu or starting a practice session. I am constantly feeling a bit of a pull to the left and when i release the wheel at the start it is turning all the way untill it stops.
It is happening only in Project CARS 2, not in Assetto Corsa or rFactor2......... Raw, informative or immersive, custom no difference. FFB Volume, tone and fx settings still the same.
was there a small patch change? V2.0.0.1.0894.AVX
this weekend i will reinstall my whole pc and games.

Nevermind....it is only happening when driving the Caterham 620 R.........what is wrong with this/my game :rolleyes:

Krus Control
20-10-2017, 18:11
Nevermind....it is only happening when driving the Caterham 620 R.........what is wrong with this/my game :rolleyes:

My wheel pulls left when in the menu in pits sometimes. But from what I can tell it isn't related to any particular car or track. It just does this every once in a while. Sometime if you go on track and return to pits it goes away. I just grab my wheel while I get through whatever I was doing in the menu.

Rossi46 (NL)
20-10-2017, 18:34
My wheel pulls left when in the menu in pits sometimes. But from what I can tell it isn't related to any particular car or track. It just does this every once in a while. Sometime if you go on track and return to pits it goes away. I just grab my wheel while I get through whatever I was doing in the menu.

When changing to other cars it doesn't happen, only with the Caterham 620 R

Krus Control
20-10-2017, 18:42
When changing to other cars it doesn't happen, only with the Caterham 620 R

It could be that this was the case for me too and I just didn't pick up on it.

cpcdem
20-10-2017, 21:21
Was happening a lot to me as well (with my DFGT), until I put menu spring force to zero in the settings.

Rossi46 (NL)
22-10-2017, 13:52
Sorry Rossi, The Fusion at Monza is really bad because you have hundreds of pounds of spring forces to play with. Mojave Coyote Noose is the small semi oval, take the Ferrari there and lower the left side springs and raise the right side springs. Then reverse this and you should see a difference. When you have the springs max high on inside and max low outside the car should push outside and mess up over the hill when you go into the bowl it should also push you toward the wall.


Today i reinstalled my whole PC.

I tried the Ferarri 488 GT3 again on Mojave Coyote Noose and changed the springs like suggested and finally i could feel the oversteer ( low springs left - high springs right ) it was not much....but it's a start!! And when changing it to the other value ( high springs left - low springs right ) the car was pushing me indeed to the wall and there was the understeer!
Changed to the Lmp900 Ferarri and this was really a game change, also driving the Caterham 620 R again and i could feel a lot of understeer and oversteer with the different spring settings.
When changing the springs from the Caterham 620 R a lot the wheel was pulling to the left again like before. But when changing to default values it was normal again.
I don't know what was wrong with the game before reinstallation of Windows 10, but it seems it's all fine now.
Also no issues with the recent "Fall Creators Update" from windows 10.

Thnx for all the help so far!

blinkngone
22-10-2017, 14:01
Today i reinstalled my whole PC.

I tried the Ferarri 488 GT3 again on Mojave Coyote Noose and changed the springs like suggested and finally i could feel the oversteer ( low springs left - high springs right ) it was not much....but it's a start!! And when changing it to the other value ( high springs left - low springs right ) the car was pushing me indeed to the wall and there was the understeer!
Changed to the Lmp900 Ferarri and this was really a game change, also driving the Caterham 620 R again and i could feel a lot of understeer and oversteer with the different spring settings.
When changing the springs from the Caterham 620 R a lot the wheel was pulling to the left again like before. But when changing to default values it was normal again.
I don't know what was wrong with the game before reinstallation of Windows 10, but it seems it's all fine now.
Also no issues with the recent "Fall Creators Update" from windows 10.

Thnx for all the help so far!

Rossi I am so happy for you! It's terrible that it has messed up the start of your League play but maybe you can get back on track now. Looking forward to running against you in TT someday soon. Cheers!;) Can you bring your teammate back in?

bmanic
22-10-2017, 14:01
This is one of the main running issues with Slightly Mad Studios games that use their own Madness Engine. "Data gathering, storing and loading" seems to be borked and not at all reliable (it was my number 1 wish for pCars 2 to have this fixed). This leads to seemingly odd and very weird issues. This was the case with the older games (Shift series) as well as pCars 1 and now also pCars 2. This is why every oddity, no matter how weird, should indeed be taken seriously and why a reinstall may in fact cure a problem. There were several instances of FFB going very weird/bad and then suddenly a few weeks and updates later it being back to normal, during WMD pre-alpha, alpha and beta development.

It's very unfortunate that these unreliable data storage/loading things haven't been fixed for pCars 2. It may be very deeply rooted in their game engine unfortunately. This seems to cause all kinds of problems all over the game, saves not loading properly, car setups not being saved when using overwrite (and instead work somewhat reliably when saving to new files instead) and previous selected car having it's settings, or half of it's settings, mixed with the new car you've just selected.. etc. etc.

Perhaps when pCars 3 eventually gets made these deep lying problems get a spring cleaning and get fixed. :(

peterCars
27-10-2017, 04:25
I'd recommend you do a backup of your whole drive(s). I use truecrypt.
there is/was also a program for PC's called Filemon that shows what is being written, which might help in such intensive investigations.
replaced apparently.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon
thanks to commenter above for the link to
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51955-FFB-settings-for-Fanatec-Wheels/page3
I'll work on that tonight.