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fresquito
16-10-2017, 06:51
I honestly don't get this car. We made a MP yesterday at RB Ring and none of the 12 players understood the behaviour of the car. For starters, the tail slides like cracy left and right when braking, although it's got ABS, TC and SC (or so the HUD says). Forward brake bias didn't help all that much, even going as far as 63/37. Second gear makes the car oversteer in an uncatchable way in slow corners, third gear in mid speed corners is a constant dance. For reference, lately I've been driving the FX at Nords in snow and found it far easier to drive than this car in clear conditions.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 09:59
I honestly don't get this car. We made a MP yesterday at RB Ring and none of the 12 players understood the behaviour of the car. For starters, the tail slides like cracy left and right when braking, although it's got ABS, TC and SC (or so the HUD says). Forward brake bias didn't help all that much, even going as far as 63/37. Second gear makes the car oversteer in an uncatchable way in slow corners, third gear in mid speed corners is a constant dance. For reference, lately I've been driving the FX at Nords in snow and found it far easier to drive than this car in clear conditions.

Hi fresquito, what platform are you on? I'm on PC. Wheel or pad? I use a wheel. It might be track dependent(I've only run Silverstone National) but it seems ok to me and Sloskimo put a little time in and runs well. The Vulcan is just over 2 seconds behind the McLaren P1 with Sloskimo putting in a 52 with it and a 50 with the P1. The Vulcan seems ok at Algarve against the McLaren just under 2 seconds behind. I reduced the brake pressure.

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Jussi Karjalainen
16-10-2017, 11:39
The car has a pretty harsh engine braking behavior, just wait calmly while braking and shift down at low revs and it'll settle.

For power oversteer you can also try loosening up the acceleration lock on the differential (increase power ramp angle), and trying different damper settings at the rear. Something like 8200 slow bump and 650 for bump transition could work.

Also compared to the P1 GTR the Aston has a ton more downforce, probably even more than it really needs. Experimenting with the DF settings can be rewarding as well.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 12:39
The car has a pretty harsh engine braking behavior, just wait calmly while braking and shift down at low revs and it'll settle.

For power oversteer you can also try loosening up the acceleration lock on the differential (increase power ramp angle), and trying different damper settings at the rear. Something like 8200 slow bump and 650 for bump transition could work.

Also compared to the P1 GTR the Aston has a ton more downforce, probably even more than it really needs. Experimenting with the DF settings can be rewarding as well.

Thanks Jussi.

I haven't done anything but brake pressure, I use fully automatic, maybe that's why I don't have problems with the car.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 13:54
Ok, here are some settings for Silverstone National, I started in the 54's.
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Changed camber only.
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bmanic
16-10-2017, 13:56
To be fair, I do think this car has a pretty poor basic setup, at least if you try to go fast and be at the absolute limit. It's highly track dependant too.. as the aero efficiency is very touchy, so the setup needs to be very different for bumpy tracks vs smooth tracks. I've been working on a setup for this car, specifically for COTA National, for a little while now and I think I've made some progress.

bmanic
16-10-2017, 13:56
Ok, here are some settings for Silverstone National, I started in the 54's.

That steering ratio of yours is absolutely insane.

fresquito
16-10-2017, 14:01
The car has a pretty harsh engine braking behavior, just wait calmly while braking and shift down at low revs and it'll settle.

For power oversteer you can also try loosening up the acceleration lock on the differential (increase power ramp angle), and trying different damper settings at the rear. Something like 8200 slow bump and 650 for bump transition could work.

Also compared to the P1 GTR the Aston has a ton more downforce, probably even more than it really needs. Experimenting with the DF settings can be rewarding as well.
It also has off throttle oversteer. I honestly don't think I will be playing any more with this car (so many great cars to lose time trying to make this work). I would just suggest revisiting the standard setup and making it a bit easier to control in the future, even if that costs some speed. We have some resident aliens in our community and even they found the car hard to control (they were light speed, in any case, as you may guess).

Just my two cents.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 14:11
That steering ratio of yours is absolutely insane.

I have one arm that works.:D

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 14:16
It also has off throttle oversteer. I honestly don't think I will be playing any more with this car (so many great cars to lose time trying to make this work). I would just suggest revisiting the standard setup and making it a bit easier to control in the future, even if that costs some speed. We have some resident aliens in our community and even they found the car hard to control (they were light speed, in any case, as you may guess).

Just my two cents.

OK, can't blame you. The off throttle oversteer doesn't happen as much with engine braking at 7, also the LSD helps. The P1 GTR and Revolucion are a lot easier and better set up default.

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 14:19
To be fair, I do think this car has a pretty poor basic setup, at least if you try to go fast and be at the absolute limit. It's highly track dependant too.. as the aero efficiency is very touchy, so the setup needs to be very different for bumpy tracks vs smooth tracks. I've been working on a setup for this car, specifically for COTA National, for a little while now and I think I've made some progress.

No one has made a TT run yet at COTA National, it's yours for the taking.:D

bmanic
16-10-2017, 15:47
Oh I'll be taking a lot of TT times with the Vulcan. I like the challenge of setting up that car for various tracks. I'm currently struggling to get into the mid 0:51.xxx on Silverstone National. That track is so damn slippery. My calculated potential lap is 51.3xx but I know there's much more to it if I can figure out the setup.

@fresquito: It is very simple to make the car an understeering dog and very easy to control.. so don't give up yet if you think it's too difficult to control. Just set the differential to something silly like 85 degrees power ramp and 30 degrees coast ramp.. then clutches to 2.. and preload to a very low number like zero or 20nm. Boom. Instant understeering dog of a car, no matter what throttle situation (provided that you started with the Stable setup).

blinkngone
16-10-2017, 15:53
Oh I'll be taking a lot of TT times with the Vulcan. I like the challenge of setting up that car for various tracks. I'm currently struggling to get into the mid 0:51.xxx on Silverstone National. That track is so damn slippery. My calculated potential lap is 51.3xx but I know there's much more to it if I can figure out the setup.

@fresquito: It is very simple to make the car an understeering dog and very easy to control.. so don't give up yet if you think it's too difficult to control. Just set the differential to something silly like 85 degrees power ramp and 30 degrees coast ramp.. then clutches to 2.. and preload to a very low number like zero or 20nm. Boom. Instant understeering dog of a car, no matter what throttle situation (provided that you started with the Stable setup).

Yes , but the point some people were making is that the default setups are problematic with the car in some circumstances so they are walking away. They would like better default setups which should be doable.

bradleyland
16-10-2017, 16:34
The car has a pretty harsh engine braking behavior, just wait calmly while braking and shift down at low revs and it'll settle.

For power oversteer you can also try loosening up the acceleration lock on the differential (increase power ramp angle), and trying different damper settings at the rear. Something like 8200 slow bump and 650 for bump transition could work.

Also compared to the P1 GTR the Aston has a ton more downforce, probably even more than it really needs. Experimenting with the DF settings can be rewarding as well.


It also has off throttle oversteer. I honestly don't think I will be playing any more with this car (so many great cars to lose time trying to make this work). I would just suggest revisiting the standard setup and making it a bit easier to control in the future, even if that costs some speed. We have some resident aliens in our community and even they found the car hard to control (they were light speed, in any case, as you may guess).

Just my two cents.

I think frequito's observation is a result of Jussi's indication. I have observed that quite a few cars in pCARS 2 exhibit some peculiar low-speed engine braking issues. The issue manifests itself as extreme oversteer in low speed corners. It feels as if the handbrake has been pulled.

Another example of a car that exhibits this behavior is the Ferrari GTB4 at Algarve. The car slides the rear around every corner as if you were making a Hoonigan video. It requires maintenance throttle to prevent the RPMs from dropping 30% as the rear tires are dragged around the corner.

IMO, it's something that needs to be looked in to.

fresquito
16-10-2017, 16:43
Oh I'll be taking a lot of TT times with the Vulcan. I like the challenge of setting up that car for various tracks. I'm currently struggling to get into the mid 0:51.xxx on Silverstone National. That track is so damn slippery. My calculated potential lap is 51.3xx but I know there's much more to it if I can figure out the setup.

@fresquito: It is very simple to make the car an understeering dog and very easy to control.. so don't give up yet if you think it's too difficult to control. Just set the differential to something silly like 85 degrees power ramp and 30 degrees coast ramp.. then clutches to 2.. and preload to a very low number like zero or 20nm. Boom. Instant understeering dog of a car, no matter what throttle situation (provided that you started with the Stable setup).
My point is not that the car is and will always be undriveable. I'm just tellling Jussi and the team that, in our experience, the default setup is not enjoyable and should probably be reviewed because people of all levels didn't find it fun in our game. In fact we all concluded it was a turd of a car (please, team don't take this as an attack to your work, we understand there're many cars and it's early days and you had tons of pressure to launch the game and all that, we simply didn't enjoy ourselves driving this thing).

Edit: As a general note, I will add that I find most default loose setups tend to be designed for fast drivers, resulting in many average users having trouble controlling the cars. I think this is not the right approach. I think people want cars to drive well and then resort to setups to make them faster.

Jussi Karjalainen
16-10-2017, 17:14
Feedback noted.

And loose setups weren't necessarily designed for "fast" drivers, just people who like their setups to be loose. How loose is too loose is of course a fine balance to walk on.

bmanic
16-10-2017, 21:15
Well, the Vulcan is a very tricky car but it's easy enough to make it "safe" and neutral or understeery. The lowspeed sudden oversteering issue is easily fixed with the engine braking, setting it to 7, 8, 9 or even 10 and it's sort of fixed. Then tweaking the differential too helps.

For high-speed instability problems it's the aerodynamics of the body of the car. I found it easiest to get a stable car by setting the rear wing to zero, then balancing the undertray so that it isn't so forward aligned in it's aerodynamics push (meaning you lift the front in relation to the rear).

There's a really easy to drive (but annoyingly understeery) car setup available from my ghost on Silverstone National. It's currently the top time with 0.51.6xx something.

David Semperger
18-10-2017, 09:43
I wanted to see what the fuss was about the Vulcan, since I've heard so many bad things about it even before release, but honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it. Even with the default setups it is very much drivable. Don't shift down too early or brake too hard while turning and it won't spin on corner entry. Overall, I found the default setups to be on the understeery side a bit, although with the power the Vulcan has, in 2nd gear I did have to be careful with the throttle, but that is just par for the course with Supercars.

Full disclosure however, I always drive with authentic assists. In my mind, they are there to be used when you want to be competitive and race others, so I never fully disable them when they are available.

Also, there's a new top time at Silverstone National with the Vulcan. :)

blinkngone
18-10-2017, 10:05
I wanted to see what the fuss was about the Vulcan, since I've heard so many bad things about it even before release, but honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it. Even with the default setups it is very much drivable. Don't shift down too early or brake too hard while turning and it won't spin on corner entry. Overall, I found the default setups to be on the understeery side a bit, although with the power the Vulcan has, in 2nd gear I did have to be careful with the throttle, but that is just par for the course with Supercars.

Full disclosure however, I always drive with authentic assists. In my mind, they are there to be used when you want to be competitive and race others, so I never fully disable them when they are available.

Also, there's a new top time at Silverstone National with the Vulcan. :)

That's great David! Congratulations.:cool: The problem is it doesn't drive well enough for a lot of people so they have given up on it. It might have something to do with their settings, brake sensitivity, FFB etc.. While you are adept at setting up yours many people do not have your ability so when they start out in the car it causes them to instantly spin and they give up in frustration. Some will not come back. A more forgiving set up in default would help people starting out and more adept drivers like yourself would quickly make the adjustments necessary to exploit the cars potential. More people would be happy with it.

Hey David, I could use some help with the Nissan GT3 at Silverstone National if you have time.:)
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The Pagani has a more user friendly default set up.

David Semperger
18-10-2017, 10:38
It might have something to do with their settings, brake sensitivity, FFB etc.

This could very well be the case. For reference, I drive with throttle sensitivity at 35 and the brake at 20. I have a bit of a heavy foot and these settings allow me to modulate both the throttle and brake padal at around 50% input more easily. These settings however are very much up to each individual and to a lesser degree the pedal set being used.

FFB is almost always a personal preference I've found, but for those who are curious, at the moment I use the Informative flavor, with Tone at 85, FX at 15 and volume changing depending on the car, usually in the 20-40 range (35 in the case of the Vulcan).


While you are adept at setting up yours many people do not have your ability so when they start out in the car it causes them to instantly spin and they give up in frustration. Some will not come back. A more forgiving set up in default would help people starting out and more adept drivers like yourself would quickly make the adjustments necessary to exploit the cars potential. More people would be happy with it.

I understand of course. I'm far from an adept and I'm sorry if I came across as a bit arrogant perhaps, but I do think in general the default Loose setup is fine, so I didn't want the devs to think that there are large over-arching changes needed. What I would try first is what Bmanic also mentioned, decreasing the engine braking (meaning actually increasing the value in the setup). The default 2 in the Loose setup is a little bit iffy, I quickly increased it to 4 and then to 6. Other than this, I lowered the right height as much as possible, together with the bump stops in the suspension, went with 0 wings at the rear, 0 toe at the rear and -0.1 at the front and closed the engine radiator for a bit more top speed.

In the grand scheme of things these are not exactly major changes compared to the default Loose setup, I'm not even sure that for example the toe changes helped me, I was merely curious how the rear of the car would behave under power with 0 rear toe. Given that many people drive with the defaults and tracks require different compromises, it is quite likely that on some tracks the defaults would be ideal.

I don't know how the car is however with a controller and the Stable setup. It could very well be that setup would need more drastic adjustments.


Hey David, I could use some help with the Nissan GT3 at Silverstone National if you have time.:)

Unfortunately I don't have too much free time lately, and I do want to focus on the career for the most part, but I will give the Nissan GT3 a go as well. :)

EDIT: My time with it is on the board (http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1952936927&vehicle=2878763807). I've found the default Loose setup perfectly good with it (this is common theme for me, I think SMS and WMD2 did an excellent job with these), after a few laps I'm not sure what I would change. Given that I'm not the fastest guy out there and I even left the radiator open I'm fairly sure there is around a second more to be gained with the Nissan here still.

Roushman624
19-10-2017, 06:14
It took me a while to get used to the car but now I'm faster than ever in it.

Roushman624
19-10-2017, 06:17
Can we get the developers to fix the brake noise? There is literally little to no brake noise... In real life it squeals like a little pig... please devs, I made another thread about this...

fresquito
27-10-2017, 10:29
The car has a pretty harsh engine braking behavior, just wait calmly while braking and shift down at low revs and it'll settle.

For power oversteer you can also try loosening up the acceleration lock on the differential (increase power ramp angle), and trying different damper settings at the rear. Something like 8200 slow bump and 650 for bump transition could work.

Also compared to the P1 GTR the Aston has a ton more downforce, probably even more than it really needs. Experimenting with the DF settings can be rewarding as well.
So this is normal?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8YGf6LClK8&feature=youtu.be

LockeChris
27-10-2017, 10:40
So this is normal?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8YGf6LClK8&feature=youtu.be

Could be. Not a long ago a Nissan GT-R GT3 had a complete backflip crash at that spot (which is why they flattened the surface there a little IRL) and there have been quite a few crashes like these in the past. The car just gets air underneath the front while the massive rear wing still produces downforce...

RomKnight
27-10-2017, 10:43
That was actually a "softer" crash that the nissan's that IIRC gone up the barrier and hit people. And that was just the more recent one.

Roushman624
27-10-2017, 13:17
So this is normal?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8YGf6LClK8&feature=youtu.be

I've had this happen to me plenty of times. You have to be careful and ease off the throttle leading up the hill.