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Blind74s
16-10-2017, 14:21
Hello SMS, hello everyone!

Just a little suggestion for SMS about the AI (again...). I don't know if it has been reported already, but the AI doesn't seem to react to blue flags.
I'm playing career mode in the GT3 championship 100% distance at the moment, in which the AI is not as fast as in other racing series (even though I'm leveling them up and i'm trying to match them on my performances).
During a lot of those races, I had to lap some backmarkers. The problem is that they are trying to defend their positions!! Which is absolutely great when you fight for say 1st or 2nd place, but very stupid and unrealistic for backmarkers.

So, questions are: is the AI subject to blue flags? If not, it would be great to implement this feature, as it is very frustrating to see slow drivers blocking you on purpose.

Thanks!

P.S.: sorry about my english, it's not my native language.

Mahjik
16-10-2017, 14:25
So, questions are: is the AI subject to blue flags? If not, it would be great to implement this feature, as it is very frustrating to see slow drivers blocking you on purpose.

Blue flag is an "Informational" flag which means "Faster car approaching". Only in F1 is a blue flag a "Command" flag which instructs a driver to give way. PC2 is not using F1 rules so you still need to make a "racing move" to pass back markers.

Blind74s
16-10-2017, 14:32
I know, and I'm not asking for them to slow down to let me through. The problem is that they are DEFENDING (blocking the inside line before braking or in a corner for instance) the position as though they are last in the race. This is stupid, unrealistic and frustating. It would be great to remove this behavior for backmarkers.

Mahjik
16-10-2017, 14:47
I know, and I'm not asking for them to slow down to let me through. The problem is that they are DEFENDING (blocking the inside line before braking or in a corner for instance) the position as though they are last in the race. This is stupid, unrealistic and frustating. It would be great to remove this behavior for backmarkers.

It's not unrealistic, again, an "Informational" flag is just that, it's just information. It's not a command to make then move out of the way or give way.


Blue Flag with a Diagonal Yellow Stripe

Another competitor is following very closely or is trying to overtake. This flag may be displayed standing or waving, depending upon the speed differential. With SCCA and NASA, it is simply a warning to you and does not mean you need to allow them to pass. If the car behind is one of the leaders, it is recommended that you safely let them by, but be predictable!

Blind74s
16-10-2017, 14:53
Again, I totally agree on that, but:


Blue Flag with a Diagonal Yellow Stripe

Another competitor is following very closely or is trying to overtake. This flag may be displayed standing or waving, depending upon the speed differential. With SCCA and NASA, it is simply a warning to you and does not mean you need to allow them to pass.If the car behind is one of the leaders, it is recommended that you safely let them by, but be predictable!.

This is NOT what they are doing. They are very unsafe and VERY unpredictable... But well, looks like you don't understand what I'm trying to say. F*ck this, I give up...

Mahjik
16-10-2017, 14:55
This is NOT what they are doing. They are very unsafe and VERY unpredictable... But well, looks like you don't understand what I'm trying to say. F*ck this, I give up...

You don't understand the flag. It says it's "recommended", not "required". I understand that English is not your native language, but there is a difference between the two terms I mentioned. I'm not sure how they translate into your language.

Blind74s
16-10-2017, 15:08
I perfectly understand the rule and the terms, don't patronise me, please...
I know it is not necessary or required to let a faster car lap you, but I've been watching motor racing for quite a long time now, and I've NEVER seen the sort of behavior backmarkers have in PC2, that is to say KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY blocking a car trying to lap someone... Again, this would be stupid and unsafe.
If you already have seen this sort of behavior IRL, please post a video here.

skipptg
16-10-2017, 18:54
You know there aren't tiny people in those cars right? It's a computer game. It's not perfect.

Drive around them with plenty of space, shouldn't be hard if you're so fast you're lapping them anyway.

WGIstation6a
16-10-2017, 23:23
Actually, even in series where blue flags don't require immediate getting out of the way, the stewards still look down upon lapped traffic blocking passing cars pretty seriously. It creates unnecessary risk for all parties involved. It is also an annoyance of mine and has been since pc1. I've had far too many races ruined by slow cars turning into me as I attempt to lap them. The op had a valid point. In no series anywhere that I've ever seen has a lapped car gotten away with blocking faster traffic. Its bad form.

Purg
16-10-2017, 23:41
but I've been watching motor racing for quite a long time now, and I've NEVER seen the sort of behavior backmarkers have in PC2, that is to say KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY blocking a car trying to lap someone... Again, this would be stupid and unsafe.
If you already have seen this sort of behavior IRL, please post a video here.

Would probably be difficult to find footage of it (since it's a long telecast and it was only being shown for 20 or so seconds) but the last Bathurst 1000, a car about to be lapped was making it very difficult for the leader to pass as he wanted to stay on the lead lap. It was ~3/4 through the race where it was raining on and off and the high probability of a safety car being used increased the importance of being on the lead lap.

It does happen IRL.. I would predict more often during endurance races.

Blind74s
17-10-2017, 01:18
Actually, even in series where blue flags don't require immediate getting out of the way, the stewards still look down upon lapped traffic blocking passing cars pretty seriously. It creates unnecessary risk for all parties involved. It is also an annoyance of mine and has been since pc1. I've had far too many races ruined by slow cars turning into me as I attempt to lap them. The op had a valid point. In no series anywhere that I've ever seen has a lapped car gotten away with blocking faster traffic. Its bad form.

THANK YOU!


Would probably be difficult to find footage of it (since it's a long telecast and it was only being shown for 20 or so seconds) but the last Bathurst 1000, a car about to be lapped was making it very difficult for the leader to pass as he wanted to stay on the lead lap. It was ~3/4 through the race where it was raining on and off and the high probability of a safety car being used increased the importance of being on the lead lap.

It does happen IRL.. I would predict more often during endurance races.

Ok, I believe you, and as you explained it makes perfect sense. But it's probably one in a million... And there's no safety car in PC2 (very sadly!) so...

plaid
17-10-2017, 12:07
The problem is that the AI sucks at overlapping and makes endurance races a cheesecake. They definitly need to overlap faster. You have plenty of opportunities to overlake the car stuck behind a slower (class).

Blue flags mechanics could maybe help to make the AI go faster through the traffic.

Edit: And maybe help the overtaking car bumping into the other which damages both and makes a pitstop necessary.

sisollazzo
17-10-2017, 17:27
I've the same opinion like Blind74s.
Mahjik, no excuses!!
Perhaps SMS is not able to program this:rolleyes:

Mahjik
17-10-2017, 18:19
Mahjik, no excuses!!

There is no excuse. Blue flag is an informational flag, it's not a command flag and that is how the real world is (and yes I do race in real life).

GUIBRU
17-10-2017, 18:34
Blue flags for AI could not help, it is necessary to make a big work on the behavior of AI. Particularly on inconvenient change of trajectory. It is strictly forbidden !
It is frequent. To see again...

g33k hack3rs
17-10-2017, 18:35
Blue flags isn't a command, true. On the other hand it is a warning that a fast car is behind and the expectation is that you stay on the racing line or graciously concede the racing line if the faster car has made a pass. It is the exception for lapped cars to try and block when a blue flag is shown. This is definitely going into the unsportsman behavior in rl racing.

One thing is to tone down the aggression. This definitely helps in general with the AI so until it is effectively coded I would suggest you lower the AI aggression to easier clear back markers. The side effect is that it also impacts AI on the lead lap but I prefer a clean race so I'm usually playing with lower aggression rather than higher. Hope that helps to alleviate the situation a bit.

plaid
17-10-2017, 22:08
There is no excuse. Blue flag is an informational flag, it's not a command flag and that is how the real world is (and yes I do race in real life).

I don't think so. Its not just informational if you can get a punishment for ignoring them and thats the case in some series.

https://wtf1.com/post/the-stewards-have-reprimanded-alonso-for-ignoring-blue-flags/

An example.

Bliman
17-10-2017, 23:17
If it is only an informational flag then it would be easy to find a video where backmarkers are fighting with the leaders (maybe I am just mistaking but I have never seen it, certainly not without consequences).
I mostly follow F1 and it is common knowledge that you must let the leaders through as fast as you can and so long it is safe.
I don't think it happens a lot in other series, what would the benefit be of fighting with the leaders, you will be losing time because you are fighting with them, you will hurt your tires, unless there is a benefit why you don't get lapped I don't see the benefit.
It is certainly something they could look at, not that I have lapped other cars already (for the moment I am mostly doing TimeTrial)

Blind74s
17-10-2017, 23:40
Blue flags isn't a command, true. On the other hand it is a warning that a fast car is behind and the expectation is that you stay on the racing line or graciously concede the racing line if the faster car has made a pass. It is the exception for lapped cars to try and block when a blue flag is shown. This is definitely going into the unsportsman behavior in rl racing.

One thing is to tone down the aggression. This definitely helps in general with the AI so until it is effectively coded I would suggest you lower the AI aggression to easier clear back markers. The side effect is that it also impacts AI on the lead lap but I prefer a clean race so I'm usually playing with lower aggression rather than higher. Hope that helps to alleviate the situation a bit.

Thanks for the advice mate, but I'm already at 35 aggression, which isn't much... Maybe I'll try lowering it a bit more.

peterCars
17-10-2017, 23:59
Thanks for the advice mate, but I'm already at 35 aggression, which isn't much... Maybe I'll try lowering it a bit more.

It would surely be easy enough to program the game so that a blue flagged car would temporarily lower it's own aggression and AI difficulty.

Mahjik
18-10-2017, 00:40
I don't think so. Its not just informational if you can get a punishment for ignoring them and thats the case in some series.

https://wtf1.com/post/the-stewards-have-reprimanded-alonso-for-ignoring-blue-flags/

An example.

Read the entire thread:


Blue flag is an "Informational" flag which means "Faster car approaching". Only in F1 is a blue flag a "Command" flag which instructs a driver to give way. PC2 is not using F1 rules so you still need to make a "racing move" to pass back markers.

Konan
18-10-2017, 04:37
So to conclude: YES AI get blue flags and NO they are not obligated to make room for the player to pass...
Case closed (and so is this thread)