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Atak Kat
16-10-2017, 14:50
Hi, I have read many of the various posts and discussions on FFB but I could not find anything that was helpful. So I will ask and maybe someone can help me understand.

I'm using T300RS, PS4 (non pro), updated to the new Patch 2 (also T3PA pro, TH8A if that matters).

No matter what FFB settings I use, I still am getting a lot of 'left/right' force in the wheel that just seems abnormally strong to me. Mainly on the straights is where it is most noticeable. I understand there should be feedback for road conditions etc. And I understand that there can be forces coming through the wheel to translate that (good!) I'm assuming it's some sort of feedback due to the tire forces (like slip, road surface dips, etc, not bumps/curbs) But, it happens at quite strange times (really noticable on straights), and with force that seems much stronger that it should be? It's quite distracting and annoying. It seems completely unpredictable. I'm just trying to understand if it is normal for all users, or just something unique to me.

My settings are generally:
Informative
Gain about 50
Volumes between 40-50
Tone about 15 (I've tried a lot of the range, finding that the higher the Tone, the more the left/right forces on the wheel. By putting it lower, this seems to reduce it, but it's still seeming strange and more than I would expect. Also, by having it so low, I think I'm losing the feedback of tire-slip when cornering, etc) TBH, I would like to have the feedback more on the tire forces/slip (rather than bumps), but the force just seems over-the-top. It's like hitting a curb and the wheel turning 30-45 degrees in your hands before you even know it (but there's no curb). And if it was some sort of front 'slip' I'd expect the force to soften, not get dramatically stronger?
FX somewhere between 30-50.

I don't know. I've tried a lot of the different suggestions of the settings in other posts, but none of it seems right. No matter what, the strength of the left/right forces are quite strong, and I can't seem to find something close to enjoyable.

I'm having a really tough time to dial things in so that I can somehow feel the front wheel grip. In my mind (maybe wrong), when loosing front wheel grip there should be some lightening of the force, and some mild vibration. I'm really struggling to understand if PC2 does something like that (so far I can't really tell)

I realize it might not be possible to compare games. I'm not trying to duplicate what is in AC ffb, but on AC i don't have anything even close to this sort of strong left/right movement in the wheel when driving. And the front wheel grip/slip seems to come through the ffb much more clearly.

I know its subjective. But does anyone else have the same perception or observation?

Thanks for any comments or ideas.

msmith792
16-10-2017, 15:06
I have a T500 and I bounce between Raw and Informative. Raw seems to give better front end feel, but informative is better in the turns providing lateral grip feedback. I don't know if the T300 has enough power for Raw though.

Overall, I don't think PCars2 FFB is bad....it's just different. It's not like AC or AMS....it just kinda has it's own feel. Good in some areas, different in others. The more you play, the more accustomed you will probably get.

Madwak55
16-10-2017, 16:29
Are you sure you have calibrated the wheel correctly as it sounds like your DOR is set too low and is amplifying the ffb?

Atak Kat
16-10-2017, 17:10
Are you sure you have calibrated the wheel correctly as it sounds like your DOR is set too low and is amplifying the ffb?

Well.... actually....
I do calibrate it the game so that the wheel is less than 90 degrees when it asks to do that. I like lower DOR because otherwise I find that I'm going off at every corner because I'm not turning the wheel far enough. So when calibrating I think the number usually is about 1100. I have no idea what those numbers mean because they make zero sense to me in that calibration screen, but basically I turn the wheel a bit less than 90 degrees then click ok. For racing and turning performance it's much better for me.

But I'm going to test that tonight..... Maybe it's the source of the issue as you comment....

To be continued.....

alegunner68
16-10-2017, 19:42
You really need to calibrate it correctly. If you need faster steering, try adjusting the steering ratio in the garage.

Marlo
16-10-2017, 20:19
Hi, I have read many of the various posts and discussions on FFB but I could not find anything that was helpful. So I will ask and maybe someone can help me understand.

I'm using T300RS, PS4 (non pro), updated to the new Patch 2 (also T3PA pro, TH8A if that matters).

No matter what FFB settings I use, I still am getting a lot of 'left/right' force in the wheel that just seems abnormally strong to me. Mainly on the straights is where it is most noticeable. I understand there should be feedback for road conditions etc. And I understand that there can be forces coming through the wheel to translate that (good!) I'm assuming it's some sort of feedback due to the tire forces (like slip, road surface dips, etc, not bumps/curbs) But, it happens at quite strange times (really noticable on straights), and with force that seems much stronger that it should be? It's quite distracting and annoying. It seems completely unpredictable. I'm just trying to understand if it is normal for all users, or just something unique to me.

My settings are generally:
Informative
Gain about 50
Volumes between 40-50
Tone about 15 (I've tried a lot of the range, finding that the higher the Tone, the more the left/right forces on the wheel. By putting it lower, this seems to reduce it, but it's still seeming strange and more than I would expect. Also, by having it so low, I think I'm losing the feedback of tire-slip when cornering, etc) TBH, I would like to have the feedback more on the tire forces/slip (rather than bumps), but the force just seems over-the-top. It's like hitting a curb and the wheel turning 30-45 degrees in your hands before you even know it (but there's no curb). And if it was some sort of front 'slip' I'd expect the force to soften, not get dramatically stronger?
FX somewhere between 30-50.

I don't know. I've tried a lot of the different suggestions of the settings in other posts, but none of it seems right. No matter what, the strength of the left/right forces are quite strong, and I can't seem to find something close to enjoyable.

I'm having a really tough time to dial things in so that I can somehow feel the front wheel grip. In my mind (maybe wrong), when loosing front wheel grip there should be some lightening of the force, and some mild vibration. I'm really struggling to understand if PC2 does something like that (so far I can't really tell)

I realize it might not be possible to compare games. I'm not trying to duplicate what is in AC ffb, but on AC i don't have anything even close to this sort of strong left/right movement in the wheel when driving. And the front wheel grip/slip seems to come through the ffb much more clearly.

I know its subjective. But does anyone else have the same perception or observation?

Thanks for any comments or ideas.

I have been trying to find something similarish ffb too AC, and so far the Informative setting with low volume and tone gets me closer too AC feel. You get a very light feeling when tires are cold but feels very good when they get warm.

My setting now:

Informative
80
25
35
65

Maybe this helps

bradleyland
16-10-2017, 21:45
Welcome to the forum! Well, I'm not afraid to admit that I'm trying desperately to get my my FFB to feel like AC :)

My impressions of the FFB in pCARS 2 are very similar to yours, Atak Kat. I find the weighting to be... off. The immediate off-center feel is too strong, and in addition bumps and road contours have way too much effect on FFB weighting. I'm also on T300, and I can confirm that this wheel has plenty of torque for running raw. Raw is actually the recommended flavor for the T500 and T300.

Here my tips:

Telemetry FFB Widget

Before you begin tuning, you need to be able to read your telemetry hud's FFB widget. This little bugger will tell you a few things:

- Your current FFB settings (you'll see why this is important later).
- The current FFB force output.
- Whether your FFB is "clipping". Clipping is a complex concept, but just think of it as running into the limits of your FFB force.

https://i.imgur.com/JogSVyZl.png

https://i.imgur.com/cOSlR2Rl.png

Mapping Volume & Tone Buttons

My experience so far is that the cars in this game vary pretty widely. Settings that work for one car don't necessarily work for another. This means you'll want to be able to tweak your settings on the fly. You can accomplish this in one of two ways:

1) Map FFB adjustments to your wheel buttons.
2) Use a USB or Bluetooth keyboard, and map FFB adjustment buttons there.

I have gone the latter route with a Bluetooth keyboard. I mapped the FFB Volume adjustment to the up/down arrow keys, and my FFB Tone adjustment to the left/right arrow keys. To map your own keys, go to:

Options, Controls, Edit Assignments, Assistance. You'll see items for Increase FFB Vol, Decrease FFB Vol, etc.

Gain & Volume Relationship

As noted in the settings menu help text, the volume setting adjusts the shape of the FFB "curve". So what does this mean? Think of it in terms of force input and force output. I drew up this diagram, based on the game's help text.

Please note that this is not an official diagram, and I cannot be certain that the curvatures follow this profile. This is simply a conceptual diagram.

https://i.imgur.com/TPhR6Rhl.png

For reference, here is the game help text:


Volume allows for the adjustment of the Force Feedback's "weight" by altering the shape of the Force Feedback curve. Increasing the volume setting will make the wheel feel heavier, but details such as road surface and kerbs will be less pronounced. Decreasing the volume setting will make the wheel feel lighter, but details such as road surface and kerbs will be more pronounced, while not affecting their overall firmness.

Volume presets are determined by the Flavour profile selected. How Volume affects the Force Feedback remains the same.

Effect of Tone on FFB

While gain and volume affect the amount of FFB and the way it "ramps up", tone determines which forces are felt most strongly through the wheel. Again, the in-game help text is a great clue:


Tone is the feeling of surface detail and tyre slip. Note that this is also dependent on the "Flavour" that was chosen in Game Options. The setting is an open sweep from Aligning Torque (Mz) force at "0" (where wheel surface detail is more pronounced, but there is less feel when it comes to tyre slip), to Side Load (Fy) force at "1" (where there is a stronger feel with respect to tyre slip, but less surface detail). Find the balance that suits your own personal preference.

First let's get some terminology out of the way, because understanding the technical terms here will help you interpret the parenthetical detail. Let's have a look at these two terms.

Aligning Torque (Mz) - The "Mz" stands for moment-z, which is the moment around the z-axis. In game physics "moment" is just rotational force; in this case, around the z-axis, which is oriented up-and-down relative to your car. If you were to grab the front tyre on a car and rotate it, you would be applying Mz force. While driving, the tires always track in the direction of travel. This means that the Mz force will always try to align the front wheels with the direction of travel; hence the reason it is called aligning torque. This force is important for being able to feel understeer. Understeer is felt as a lightening of the force as you turn the wheel past the point of maximum grip.

Side Load (Fy) - The Fy stands for force-y, which is the force along the z-axis. In game physics "force" is just regular old linear force; in this case, along the y-axis, which is oriented side-to-side relative to your car. This force scales up and down with lateral g-forces that are generated during cornering. If your car begins to oversteer, you will feel a reduction in this force.

Distilling this down to what forces are affected is helpful. If we remove the parenthetical notes, we get:


The setting is an open sweep from Aligning Torque (Mz) force at "0", to Side Load (Fy) force at "1".

Low tone values = more Aligning Torque (Mz) force, and less Side Load (Fy) force

High tone values = more Side Load (Fy) force, and less Aligning Torque (Mz) force

In graph format

https://i.imgur.com/R797qIOl.png

An optimal tone setting balances these two forces in a way that allows you to catch oversteer early enough, but also gives you information about the amount of front grip. Also noteworthy is that higher tone values tend to generate much higher peak forces. You'll almost certainly want to reduce your volume setting (and potentially gain) as you increase tone.

Experimenting With Gain, Volume, and Tone

I'd love to give you a definitive answer on what settings work best, but so far, I've only been experimenting. I have been trying out two possible settings.

Minimal gain - Like you, I felt like the FFB in pCARS was heavy and somewhat flat. I think that balancing gain and volume is the key to eliminating this characteristic. My desired FFB is somewhat light on-center, and ramps up with a nice punchy peak at the limit. With a high gain setting, I can't run sufficient volume & tone without clipping. This means I'm never getting into the right-side of the curvature. By lingering in the left side of the curve, the forces are "flattened". To counter this, I've tried running gain on the lower side, and ramping up volume and tone.

High gain - My concern with the minimal gain strategy is that it will compress the forces into a tighter window, resulting in reduced detail. With this in mind, I've tried running gain at 100, and tuning volume and tone to suit my FFB strength and balance tastes. The benefit of this strategy is that you can easily tweak volume & tone on the fly, so it's easier to adjust on-the-fly when you're in online lobbies.

Example Settings

There are a couple of settings that I find somewhat close to AC in the GT3 RS (which is what I use for testing). Having said that, there are some cars in this game that are just terminally broken for me. The Lamborghini Sesto Elemento, for example. You will absolutely have to tweak each car, and some cars will just never feel good.

Here are my settings notes for the Porsche 911 GT3 RS (IMO, some of the best FFB in the game):

Car: Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Setup: SMS Loose
Circuit: Hockenheim National (Spring 11:00, Med Cloud, 60F ambient, 71F track)
FFB Flavour: Raw
Wheel: T300 Ferrari Alcantara
Pedals: Fanatec CSPv3 (w/ CPX Adapter)

Gain/Volume/Tone/FX

50/30/100/15 - Road surface detail is subtle, but it's there. Good feel for where the rear of the car is, with a nice light on-center feel. Even on cold tires, I can feel what the car is doing before it jumps up and bites me. Understeer feel is there, but it's difficult to detect. FFB histogram fills mostly the 3rd and 4th columns, making this a nice mid-strength profile. Still very comfortable (no fatigue here). Very enjoyable settings. The car feels very natural, but there's a lack of feeling of balance subtlety.

100/50/30/15 - Lots of road surface detail. Weight is heavy on-center, and overall feels a little bit vague. There's a confusing heaviness to the wheel with these settings, and the weight peaks under off-throttle and braking conditions, while becoming much lighter under acceleration. Rear of the car is felt through the weight, but I don't feel like the wheel is tracking the direction of the car as accurately. FFB histogram is heavy in column 2, with not a lot of force elsewhere. This reflects the flatter feeling of these settings. Despite not enjoying the feel as much, I do feel like I can balance oversteer understeer a bit better.

75/40/80/15 -Feels like a pretty well balanced FFB setup. Road detail is present, and it's easy to tell where the rear of the car is, while not drowning out the feeling of balance between oversteer and understeer. Unfortunately, these settings result in the same on-center heaviness that I've been trying desperately to dial out. You must hold the wheel firmly while using these settings, or the car goes into a death wobble. Disappointing, but otherwise drivable.

Updates

2017-10-21:
- Updated tone section based on clarifications elsewhere.
- Updated tone graph to correct sweeps (were previously reversed; incorrectly).

bradleyland
16-10-2017, 21:53
Because I wrote a friggin novel in my last post, lemme just pull this out. The combo below feels pretty similar to my Assetto Corsa FFB setup. Unfortunately, the tone setting of 100 will not work well with all cars, so enjoy this specific car/track combo, and let's hope that we can manage this same feel from other cars.

Car: Porsche 911 GT3 RS
Setup: SMS Loose
Circuit: Hockenheim National (Spring 11:00, Med Cloud, 60F ambient, 71F track)
FFB Flavour: Raw
Wheel: T300 Ferrari Alcantara
Pedals: Fanatec CSPv3 (w/ CPX Adapter)

Gain: 50
Volume: 30
Tone: 100
FX: 15

FFB notes - Road surface detail is subtle, but it's there. Good feel for where the rear of the car is, with a nice light on-center feel. Even on cold tires, I can feel what the car is doing before it jumps up and bites me. Understeer feel is there, but it's difficult to detect. FFB histogram fills mostly the 3rd and 4th columns, making this a nice mid-strength profile. Still very comfortable (no fatigue here). Very enjoyable settings. The car feels very natural, but there's a lack of feeling of balance subtlety.

Atak Kat
17-10-2017, 04:23
bradleyland. Thank you very much. I'll need to digest that and experiment some more.

Regarding my calibration. I did recalibrate and do more driving and testing last night. All reset. I would say that it did help somewhat. But didn't really solve the issue I'm perceiving. There is still a lot or left/right force in the wheel at times that just don't make sense to me. I'll keep experimenting.

Also just to clarify. My goal is not to replicate ac ffb. I look forward to differences in the games. The point is that this left/right force is something that that really sticks out at least to me. And the best reference point I have is ac.

bradleyland
17-10-2017, 13:44
bradleyland. Thank you very much. I'll need to digest that and experiment some more.

Regarding my calibration. I did recalibrate and do more driving and testing last night. All reset. I would say that it did help somewhat. But didn't really solve the issue I'm perceiving. There is still a lot or left/right force in the wheel at times that just don't make sense to me. I'll keep experimenting.

Also just to clarify. My goal is not to replicate ac ffb. I look forward to differences in the games. The point is that this left/right force is something that that really sticks out at least to me. And the best reference point I have is ac.

After a lot of testing, my best suggestion would be to run a higher Tone setting. Based on what I've experience so far, that seems to eliminate the strange weighting just off-center. The settings in post #8 are feeling pretty good to me. You might try those, and slowly back off the tone setting to your liking. As you do that, you'll need to increase gain & volume. I really like the "ramp" on volume 30, so I'd suggest trading tone & gain.

alegunner68
17-10-2017, 16:14
That's the conclusion I've come to, something weird happens unless the tone is raised.

Atak Kat
17-10-2017, 20:32
[QUOTE=bradleyland;1399368]Car: Porsche 911 GT3 RS
FFB Flavour: Raw
Wheel: T300 Ferrari Alcantara

Gain: 50
Volume: 30
Tone: 100
FX: 15
/QUOTE]

I did try this and have to say that it was very much in the direction I needed. In honesty it felt a little sterile to me but that can be just personal preference. But the overall ffb seemed much much better and addressed a lot of the left/right forces I was seeing. I did some fine tuning for my own preference and ended up with:
Raw
Gain 55
Volume 40
Tone 90
FX 20

It's the same general message for each slider, just slighty different and in my opinion not quite as sterile.

I mainly test my ffb on Banochbrae. There's lots of road changes here to test ffb effects (my opinion). I don't often drive the 911 GT3 RS and the first few laps were a disaster. But after a few laps I got the feel of the car and all seemed to come together a lot more. Enough for me to see a big difference.

So I'll keep testing but thanks for this because it really seems in a better direction than before. Will see how it goes with other cars and tracks.


Side note..... is it just me or is it almost impossible to catch a rear-end slide if it goes past about 10-15 degrees. Seems like there's a point of no return that is quite small, and after that, there's almost nothing to do but enjoy the ride??

alegunner68
17-10-2017, 21:07
I'm done now testing ffb, time to enjoy the game.
Final settings I'm happy with are inf, 60, 50, 70, 50.

bradleyland
18-10-2017, 02:46
Car: Porsche 911 GT3 RS
FFB Flavour: Raw
Wheel: T300 Ferrari Alcantara

Gain: 50
Volume: 30
Tone: 100
FX: 15


I did try this and have to say that it was very much in the direction I needed. In honesty it felt a little sterile to me but that can be just personal preference. But the overall ffb seemed much much better and addressed a lot of the left/right forces I was seeing. I did some fine tuning for my own preference and ended up with:
Raw
Gain 55
Volume 40
Tone 90
FX 20

It's the same general message for each slider, just slighty different and in my opinion not quite as sterile.

I mainly test my ffb on Banochbrae. There's lots of road changes here to test ffb effects (my opinion). I don't often drive the 911 GT3 RS and the first few laps were a disaster. But after a few laps I got the feel of the car and all seemed to come together a lot more. Enough for me to see a big difference.

So I'll keep testing but thanks for this because it really seems in a better direction than before. Will see how it goes with other cars and tracks.


Side note..... is it just me or is it almost impossible to catch a rear-end slide if it goes past about 10-15 degrees. Seems like there's a point of no return that is quite small, and after that, there's almost nothing to do but enjoy the ride??

Really glad to help out! :) In general, I think that running a high tone setting is what makes the difference. I have noticed that my 50/30/100/15 settings are pretty light. I've bumped my gain up to 55 and volume to 34, which is similar to what you've done. It gives a little more force.

As far as oversteer, it depends on the car. I can hang the tail out on the 911 GT3 RS pretty well once the tires are warmed up. There is definitely an unrecoverable point though. How far you can get it depends on the car, the setup, throttle control, and how quick your hands are. Then there are cars that I am convinced are just unrecoverable. Yeah, I'm looking at you Ferrari F40 LM :)

xtro
18-10-2017, 14:55
Do you think it's possible that the T300 has a different FFB feeling when you plug the th8a shifter in USB mode and not on the Base ?? I would be curious if anyone would be willing to try... I seem to have a better feeling on the wheel in USB

Dinos
18-10-2017, 15:07
Can someone test and tell me his opinion please :
Immersive
70
50
50
70
0,25 (I don't know what this number is)
Thank you.

bradleyland
18-10-2017, 15:39
Can someone test and tell me his opinion please :
Immersive
70
50
50
70
0,25 (I don't know what this number is)
Thank you.

What do you think of those settings? Are you trying to accomplish anything specific? FFB is subjective to each driver, so without information about your own feelings, it's hard to give advice.

The last number is Menu Spring Strength. This is the centering force on your wheel when in the menus. It has no effect while driving.

The standard nomenclature is:

Flavour
Gain
Volume
Tone
FX

(the order of the settings menu).

or

Gain/Volume/Tone/FX

(the order of the FFB widget in the Telemetry HUD).

Dinos
18-10-2017, 15:50
What do you think of those settings? Are you trying to accomplish anything specific? FFB is subjective to each driver, so without information about your own feelings, it's hard to give advice.

The last number is Menu Spring Strength. This is the centering force on your wheel when in the menus. It has no effect while driving.

The standard nomenclature is:

Flavour
Gain
Volume
Tone
FX

(the order of the settings menu).

or

Gain/Volume/Tone/FX

(the order of the FFB widget in the Telemetry HUD).
Thank you For your reply, i like Strong ffb and i want someone elses opinion

spacepadrille
20-10-2017, 06:15
Do you think it's possible that the T300 has a different FFB feeling when you plug the th8a shifter in USB mode and not on the Base ?? I would be curious if anyone would be willing to try... I seem to have a better feeling on the wheel in USB

Interesting, I will try this and report here what I found

GTP_RS172
20-10-2017, 10:43
Great read thanks for sharing!

I have around 40 hours invested into PC2 primarily Career, Offline 50/50.
My 3 go to tracks: Nurburgring Nordschleife *shhh it has pits, Bathurst and Silverstone GP for TT (ing).
The cars: Porsche 911 GT3, Renault RS Megane 275, Nissan GTR GT3.

PS4 slim, 42"/106cm LCD around 24"/60cm distance away, T300 RS GT Edition my set up:

Raw
80/85
45
55
50

This is my 'base set up' and adjust from there, I find there are massive differences in FWD/RWD Touring Car, GT3

Your post should be stickied

http : //forum . projectcarsgame . com/showthread.php?55631-T300RS-FFB-should-it-be-like-this&p=1399359&viewfull=1#post1399359

senna94f1
20-10-2017, 22:51
Hiya
The SMS staff did an amazing job on patch 2.0 ps4, as no more menu lag ,

Sound is still abit too quiet,
but biggest gripe is ffb , it was ok not brilliant but ok before patch 2,now ffb on both T300RS and T150 wheels only really works on 1 of the 3 flavours ,yes as tyre temps get warmer so your ffb get better which in fact is very clever,
But ffb has gone wrong somewhere in new patch,
Informative
Gain 100%
Volume 23%. ,but only adjust by 1% either way as this has a huge affect
Tone 50%
FX 40%

Menu Spring strength 0.70% this seems to affect weight of wheel also

Trying to find a good ffb balance has been a pain again since patch and no real solid solutions from SMS about this ,only some SMS people take this the wrong way ,which is probably my biggest disappointment,
I absolutely love this game but just want to play My Pcars 2 video sim game to its full potential which is all I ask of SMS .

MYSTYKRACER
22-10-2017, 11:38
This is a good thread! Particularly the response from bradeyland and I agree that info should be stickied!

I've had the same experience w/ the ffb being what I consider "too strong" starting about 45* off center. I find myself driving a lot more w/ my shoulders instead of my hands but I've slowly gotten used to it but I still think it's less than ideal. Currently I'm set like this:

Ford GT / Road America
Informative
Gain: 75
Volume: 40
Tone: 50
FX: 40

This seems about the best compromise that I can come up w/ thus far but I haven't played w/ it too much since the 2.0 patch. I will say after the patch the road feel is much better. Things like curbs and such have a better feel now where as before it all seemed very muted or washed out. I guess it's a process . . .

Titzon Toast
22-10-2017, 13:42
I know this thread is for the T300 but since the last patch I've also experienced some ferocious oscillation on the straights using any flavour other than Informative.

A lot of the finer FFB detail seems to have been lost too.

I wonder if it's affecting TM wheels across the whole range?

EDIT

I'm using a T500.

Atak Kat
22-10-2017, 14:21
As the guy that started this thread, I have to say thanks to all the commenters, but I'm still a bit confused or wondering if there is still something missing. It is amazing to me how many different suggestions there are from users (not only this thread... there are hundreds of comments in many threads with FFB suggested settings). And the suggestions are not at all similar. They seem to be wildly different. I understand it is a subjective topic (ffb), but when you look (or try) the different suggestions its amazing how different they are.

I get it. Differences in user opinion/preference, is why it's so hard to pin down what is working correctly, and what is not. If I was a developer I wouldn't know what to benchmark. It's like a house of mirrors. One person's awesome, is another person's disaster. What is the definition of 'good ffb'?

But I think the main issue I see is to at least get the PS4 FFB on par with the PC version. There were improvements in patch 2, yes, but I wonder if they are still far apart (compared to PC)?

bradeyland's suggestions and settings are the closest thing I've found to something that seems to work reasonably. But it is still so far from what I believe it should/could be. I haven't played the PC version, so maybe I'm just dreaming.

I wonder if there is anyone that owns both the PC version, and the PS4 version? I would be interested to know if, when setups and ffb settings are identical, there is big difference between the PC and PS4. The only reason I ask that is because I have both versions of AC (PC/PS4) and I do find quite a bit of difference - the PC version seems FAR better when it comes to FFB running with my T300 (yes, it's an opinion, but it's pretty clear in my mind...). However, the PS4 is still pretty good. (my PC barely runs AC....but the FFB experience is clearly better and smoother)

I hesitate to mention AC. its not my target to replicate AC ffb. its just a benchmarki and I'm just trying to understand if there are further improvements in the PS4 version of pC2 to follow....

jof
22-10-2017, 22:50
As the guy that started this thread, I have to say thanks to all the commenters, but I'm still a bit confused or wondering if there is still something missing. It is amazing to me how many different suggestions there are from users (not only this thread... there are hundreds of comments in many threads with FFB suggested settings). And the suggestions are not at all similar. They seem to be wildly different. I understand it is a subjective topic (ffb), but when you look (or try) the different suggestions its amazing how different they are.

I get it. Differences in user opinion/preference, is why it's so hard to pin down what is working correctly, and what is not. If I was a developer I wouldn't know what to benchmark. It's like a house of mirrors. One person's awesome, is another person's disaster. What is the definition of 'good ffb'?

But I think the main issue I see is to at least get the PS4 FFB on par with the PC version. There were improvements in patch 2, yes, but I wonder if they are still far apart (compared to PC)?

bradeyland's suggestions and settings are the closest thing I've found to something that seems to work reasonably. But it is still so far from what I believe it should/could be. I haven't played the PC version, so maybe I'm just dreaming.

I wonder if there is anyone that owns both the PC version, and the PS4 version? I would be interested to know if, when setups and ffb settings are identical, there is big difference between the PC and PS4. The only reason I ask that is because I have both versions of AC (PC/PS4) and I do find quite a bit of difference - the PC version seems FAR better when it comes to FFB running with my T300 (yes, it's an opinion, but it's pretty clear in my mind...). However, the PS4 is still pretty good. (my PC barely runs AC....but the FFB experience is clearly better and smoother)

I hesitate to mention AC. its not my target to replicate AC ffb. its just a benchmarki and I'm just trying to understand if there are further improvements in the PS4 version of pC2 to follow....


After spending 20 hours plus messing around with FFB settings and trying to find "the one", I've come to the conclusion the settings I like vary so much from car to car there is no one setting I can leave it at, so I'm not going to bother. Instead, I just started a career and will just adjust settings for each new car as I go. It wouldn't be so bad if we could save the particular FFB settings for each car in the cars setup file so once you have it dialled in for that car at least it's saved. I'm really hoping they give us on console some way to do this in a future patch

bradleyland
22-10-2017, 23:46
Having found a good high-tone FFB setup I like, I wanted to see if I could find a low-tone FFB setup that I also find usable. I'm happy to say that I found something that works well for me on the T300.

Raw/65/70/10/15

The benefit of a low-tone setup is that you get much more Mz FFB, which is more nuanced, and communicates more about front-end grip. The challenge is finding a setup that still communicates oversteer effectively without confusing the two forces. I find that I like a much higher volume setting when running low tone, but I may experiment a bit more with higher gain, and less volume. I find the on-center weighting to be just a bit heavy. I think that by running gain a bit higher, I could probably get away with less volume.

Anyway, I tested the settings above out with a variety of cars, including Road, LMP3, and Rallycross. I haven't tested GT3/GTE... because it seems that just about any settings work pretty well those cars haha :)

Don-09141955
23-10-2017, 11:32
Yeah...its normal. Keep turning it down until its satisfactory to YOU. You have to keep repeating this in your head though......."it's just a game......it's just a game.

Madwak55
23-10-2017, 16:58
If you are getting bad oscillation on the straights try adding 1 degree of steering deadzone?

Dinos
26-10-2017, 12:16
I feel a litle bit weird. I think I am the only one Who uses Immersive ffb.
Gain 70
Volume 50
Tone 50
Fx 70

xtro
26-10-2017, 16:16
Has anyone updated to thrustmaster firmware v27.. if so does it make a difference and is it worth doing for us little console people?

alegunner68
26-10-2017, 16:55
I updated a couple of weeks ago and to be honest haven't noticed any change.

Dinos
26-10-2017, 18:40
I updated a couple of weeks ago and to be honest haven't noticed any change.
It has nothing to do with the feel of driving, the update has to do with some wheels adds- on compatible

rosko
11-11-2017, 21:53
https://i.imgur.com/TPhR6Rhl.png



Can i ask why a low volume is non linear? It doesn't make sense to me.

Lord of the Racing
11-11-2017, 23:00
The road effect are depending by the dx. If you do not like decrease it or carry to zero at all but in my opinion this should not be realistic. When you run fast it is normal that you have reactions in the wheel.

bradleyland
11-11-2017, 23:10
Can i ask why a low volume is non linear? It doesn't make sense to me.

It's based on my interpretation of the game help text. Specifically this portion:


Volume allows for the adjustment of the Force Feedback's "weight" by altering the shape of the Force Feedback curve.

It's worth noting that I/we have no way of knowing whether the curvature is parabolic, sinusoidal, logarithmic, or some other shape. We only know that the help text says it "alters the shape of the curve".

Lord of the Racing
12-11-2017, 00:09
Hi Bradleyland I have a T300 too and I am used to play AC on PS4 so like you I am very demanding with FFB. After some tests I was able to reach a very similar FFB as the one I have with AC considering the followng conditions:
- it is similar to “my” AC wheel FFB which was persoanlized on my preference
- I like to “feel” the road in the wheel as in real life
- I do not like instead that to turn the wheel you need to apply 100 kg of force as you are driving a II world war truck. Ever becuase I like realistic settings
Considering that in simple:
The Gain is the force of the wheel
The Volume is the wheight of the cars
The Tone is the resistance to turn of the wheel
The FX is the sensibilty to the irregularities of the road surface and to the cornering
After these preamble I list here my set up:
Gain 40
Volume 50
Tone 60
FX 40
Dead zone wheel at 0
I am happy with this setting but if anyone do not like to feel too FX can decrease it or if want to drive a II WW truck :-) can increase the gain. I repeat the feedback is extremely similar to what I am used to drive on AC and I am enjoying both games.

rosko
12-11-2017, 01:12
It's based on my interpretation of the game help text. Specifically this portion:


Volume allows for the adjustment of the Force Feedback's "weight" by altering the shape of the Force Feedback curve.

It's worth noting that I/we have no way of knowing whether the curvature is parabolic, sinusoidal, logarithmic, or some other shape. We only know that the help text says it "alters the shape of the curve".


Maybe it is correct, :confused:. So if we turn volume right down we can still achieve max force output at the wheel?

rosko
12-11-2017, 01:16
Hi Bradleyland I have a T300 too and I am used to play AC on PS4 so like you I am very demanding with FFB. After some tests I was able to reach a very similar FFB as the one I have with AC considering the followng conditions:
- it is similar to “my” AC wheel FFB which was persoanlized on my preference
- I like to “feel” the road in the wheel as in real life
- I do not like instead that to turn the wheel you need to apply 100 kg of force as you are driving a II world war truck. Ever becuase I like realistic settings
Considering that in simple:
The Gain is the force of the wheel
The Volume is the wheight of the cars
The Tone is the resistance to turn of the wheel
The FX is the sensibilty to the irregularities of the road surface and to the cornering
After these preamble I list here my set up:
Gain 40
Volume 50
Tone 60
FX 40
Dead zone wheel at 0
I am happy with this setting but if anyone do not like to feel too FX can decrease it or if want to drive a II WW truck :-) can increase the gain. I repeat the feedback is extremely similar to what I am used to drive on AC and I am enjoying both games.

The issue i have is whenever i think i've cracked it, i get in another car & it feels rubbish again.

bradleyland
12-11-2017, 04:46
Maybe it is correct, :confused:. So if we turn volume right down we can still achieve max force output at the wheel?

Whether you achieve maximum force output at the wheel will depend upon gain, volume, and the forces generated by the game.

I wouldn't worry too much about theoretical maximums. Use the FFB widget on the telemetry HUD to make sure you're not clipping, and then tune your FFB in a way that feels good to you. There is no "right" FFB. It's all preference :)

Lord of the Racing
12-11-2017, 07:12
With this setting I am getting constant FFB feeling with the greatest part of the cars I tried until now: GT3, GTE, Group 5, Group C, LMP3, LMP2, LMP1, Formula A, Formula X, Touring Cars, Lotus F1 1986 and 1977. Between these group of cars normally I did not need to make any adjustment, only in few cases just a couple of points of gain not more.
Instead it did not work for the Ginetta GT5 where it is needed to increase the gain dramatically and for the RX Cars where instead the gain must be strongly reduced. But at the end I think it is a good compromise (for my wish).
Sorry to say but at the moment if you want the best FFB feeling you have play AC but renouncing to weather variable conditions, a kot of cars, a structured career (but AC have full customizable championships), well identified car classes, a lot of tracks. Hopefully SMS soon will come with a patch to make the FFB constant for all the cars once you find your own acceptable setting.

Cholton82
12-11-2017, 08:36
Hi Bradleyland I have a T300 too and I am used to play AC on PS4 so like you I am very demanding with FFB. After some tests I was able to reach a very similar FFB as the one I have with AC considering the followng conditions:
- it is similar to “my” AC wheel FFB which was persoanlized on my preference
- I like to “feel” the road in the wheel as in real life
- I do not like instead that to turn the wheel you need to apply 100 kg of force as you are driving a II world war truck. Ever becuase I like realistic settings
Considering that in simple:
The Gain is the force of the wheel
The Volume is the wheight of the cars
The Tone is the resistance to turn of the wheel
The FX is the sensibilty to the irregularities of the road surface and to the cornering
After these preamble I list here my set up:
Gain 40
Volume 50
Tone 60
FX 40
Dead zone wheel at 0
I am happy with this setting but if anyone do not like to feel too FX can decrease it or if want to drive a II WW truck :-) can increase the gain. I repeat the feedback is extremely similar to what I am used to drive on AC and I am enjoying both games.

I'll give these a try later on and let you know what I think , are you using Raw ?

ProDriver
12-11-2017, 09:20
Hi Bradleyland I have a T300 too and I am used to play AC on PS4 so like you I am very demanding with FFB. After some tests I was able to reach a very similar FFB as the one I have with AC considering the followng conditions:
- it is similar to my AC wheel FFB which was persoanlized on my preference
- I like to feel the road in the wheel as in real life
- I do not like instead that to turn the wheel you need to apply 100 kg of force as you are driving a II world war truck. Ever becuase I like realistic settings
Considering that in simple:
The Gain is the force of the wheel
The Volume is the wheight of the cars
The Tone is the resistance to turn of the wheel
The FX is the sensibilty to the irregularities of the road surface and to the cornering
After these preamble I list here my set up:
Gain 40
Volume 50
Tone 60
FX 40
Dead zone wheel at 0
I am happy with this setting but if anyone do not like to feel too FX can decrease it or if want to drive a II WW truck :-) can increase the gain. I repeat the feedback is extremely similar to what I am used to drive on AC and I am enjoying both games.

Wich flavour?

Lord of the Racing
12-11-2017, 12:33
Sorry I missed it and it is important: I use informative. With raw it does not work well. I did not tried immersive.

ProDriver
12-11-2017, 13:21
Sorry I missed it and it is important: I use informative. With raw it does not work well. I did not tried immersive.

Yep, I've tried with RAW and it doesnt works fine, I'll try with informative.

Thank you

Lord of the Racing
12-11-2017, 14:49
Anyway to meet or not your expectations strictly depends by your personal taste. What like me could not be the same for someone else.

Nasos Charalampou
12-11-2017, 20:16
Having found a good high-tone FFB setup I like, I wanted to see if I could find a low-tone FFB setup that I also find usable. I'm happy to say that I found something that works well for me on the T300.

Raw/65/70/10/15

The benefit of a low-tone setup is that you get much more Mz FFB, which is more nuanced, and communicates more about front-end grip. The challenge is finding a setup that still communicates oversteer effectively without confusing the two forces. I find that I like a much higher volume setting when running low tone, but I may experiment a bit more with higher gain, and less volume. I find the on-center weighting to be just a bit heavy. I think that by running gain a bit higher, I could probably get away with less volume.

Anyway, I tested the settings above out with a variety of cars, including Road, LMP3, and Rallycross. I haven't tested GT3/GTE... because it seems that just about any settings work pretty well those cars haha :)

So im a bit confused.In post #2 the explanation for tone is that a high setting means a better feling in understeer.Yet you have a lower tone at 10 and find it more understeer friendly?

Im asking cause even though i have a g27 my main issue is feeling the understeer.The way oversteer is sent to the ffb is more than ok.

bradleyland
13-11-2017, 02:21
So im a bit confused.In post #2 the explanation for tone is that a high setting means a better feling in understeer.Yet you have a lower tone at 10 and find it more understeer friendly?

Im asking cause even though i have a g27 my main issue is feeling the understeer.The way oversteer is sent to the ffb is more than ok.

I'm sorry, when I originally read the help text I misinterpreted it, so there has been some confusion on my part. I made some more updates so that it is clear that low tone is better for feeling understeer.

Please feel free to speak up about anything I've said that is confusing or sounds wrong. I won't take offense :)

Nasos Charalampou
14-11-2017, 21:13
I'm sorry, when I originally read the help text I misinterpreted it, so there has been some confusion on my part. I made some more updates so that it is clear that low tone is better for feeling understeer.

Please feel free to speak up about anything I've said that is confusing or sounds wrong. I won't take offense :)

One thing i forgot to mention in my earlier post is a huge thank you for your time and effort doing these lengthy and informative posts.It is of huge help to unlock ffbs potential.

Maybe my wording sounded a bit aggressive but i was genuinely confused from the in game explanations.But i re read them and i think that in my next practise session i will find a happy medium after you posts and my tweaking.

So thanks again.

I will report back about my g27 settings.

As a long time AC user and ''fan'' i like the way the ffb is conceived there but i dont think that with my wheel the difference is night and day.Just different and dare i say it i kinda like it.

Perrywood
25-11-2017, 14:40
You really need to calibrate it correctly. If you need faster steering, try adjusting the steering ratio in the garage
Can someone show me were this is in the garage

Walther9mm
25-11-2017, 18:48
You really need to calibrate it correctly. If you need faster steering, try adjusting the steering ratio in the garage
Can someone show me were this is in the garage

The steering ratio is in the middle of the second setup page for each car I believe, at the top

Perrywood
26-11-2017, 15:14
The steering ratio is in the middle of the second setup page for each car I believe, at the top

Thanks found it