PDA

View Full Version : Oversteer opinion?



Atak Kat
20-10-2017, 13:16
I'm curious what others think...

In my opinion, there should be a bit more of a window or feasibility to catch oversteer, in general. It really seems to me that there is a very, very limited possibility to catch and correct oversteer. At least compared to other sims, or even real-life (not a racing driver, but some track day experience that is much different than what I find in PC2...).

I know it invites comments about setup, you're too slow to react, etc, etc. But in general I find that as long as you catch it really early, you have a chance. But if the rear end gets past about 15 degrees off line, then you're done and along for the ride.

Thanks for your opinions.

bradleyland
20-10-2017, 13:37
It really depends on the car and the FFB setup.

For example, an LMP car (of any class) will be extremely difficult to catch. Even GT3 cars are very difficult to catch in a slide. I'm a huge IMSA fan, so I watch a lot of the races. Lots of times, you'll see a GTD or GTLM car get a slip angle of like 10, and the commentators go crazy about the driver "having a moment". In a road car, a 10 slip angle is nothing. In a race car, it's catastrophic.

For road cars, I find most of them very easy to slide. Hell, it's hard not to slide them. Try the Porsche 911 GT3 RS around Alvarve. There are many long, sweeping stretches of tarmac with a very smooth surface to try your hand at hanging the tail out. Be sure to start out with the "Stable" setup. It's easier to recover.

RomKnight
20-10-2017, 13:49
Oversteer aka the fun mode aka the fast mode... until you loose it.

I tend to blame the lead on right foot so after a little chat with said foot, not pressing as hard on corner exits solved it (until the damn foot gets excited again) :D

Seriously, some more than others but I don't think the cars are hard to catch. Plenty of warning to do so unless I really over do it (the limit is my ability not the car's)

bradleyland
20-10-2017, 14:01
EDIT: This post has been updated to reflect a better understanding of Tone.

I'd also add that I have a much easier time catching oversteer when running a high-tone FFB setup, and relatively low overall force (lower gain). If my FFB histogram accumulates force in anything more than the 3rd column, I'm not able to move the wheel quickly enough in response to car movements. You want just enough FFB force to "feed" the wheel (release your hands and let the wheel correct itself), but not so much that you can't quickly overpower it with a light grip.

The importance of tone in this situation has to do with "self aligning torque" (Mz) and "lateral force" (Fy).

Drifting a real car is actually way easier than drifting a sim, because real cars only have Mz force through the steering wheel, while Fy force is felt in your inner ear. The right kind of FFB setup can help though. The higher your tone, the more Fy force will be included in your FFB output. The wheel will naturally countersteer the slide for you. Your job, as the driver, becomes applying pressure away from the natural direction, in order to adjust the slip angle.

Low tone limits the lateral g-force (Fy) used in FFB, but provides more feel from the front wheels (Mz). This type of force can make drifting difficult, because lateral forces aren't self-correcting for oversteer.

Djuvinile
20-10-2017, 14:05
I love the oversteer on some cars, its so much better than pcars 1, where a catch was almost impossible.
for example the oversteer on TCR cars is just Epic and (imo) easy to catch and play with. you want to smoke youre tyres around a corner? no problem... you want the back to swing out a litlle bit exiting corners.. u can as well.. havent tried all cars but these ones shouldnt be touched, its perfect.

Madhun67
20-10-2017, 14:15
for me it has a lot to do with steering ratio to be able to "catch' an over correction or oversteer

Atak Kat
20-10-2017, 14:49
for me it has a lot to do with steering ratio to be able to "catch' an over correction or oversteer

Agree 100%. But even when I reduce it to where I'm more comfortable in the corners, this oversteer still gets me too often. I struggle....

Thanks for all the comment so far. So.... more practice I guess..... (maybe less beer is the solution.......)

AbeWoz
20-10-2017, 14:53
It really depends on the car and the FFB setup.

For example, an LMP car (of any class) will be extremely difficult to catch. Even GT3 cars are very difficult to catch in a slide. I'm a huge IMSA fan, so I watch a lot of the races. Lots of times, you'll see a GTD or GTLM car get a slip angle of like 10, and the commentators go crazy about the driver "having a moment". In a road car, a 10 slip angle is nothing. In a race car, it's catastrophic.

For road cars, I find most of them very easy to slide. Hell, it's hard not to slide them. Try the Porsche 911 GT3 RS around Alvarve. There are many long, sweeping stretches of tarmac with a very smooth surface to try your hand at hanging the tail out. Be sure to start out with the "Stable" setup. It's easier to recover.

I remember seeing a Tweet or IG post from Tommy Milner about his 'new record' for slip angle without spinning. Practice session I think it was high 20deg.

cmch15
20-10-2017, 15:30
I'm curious what others think...

In my opinion, there should be a bit more of a window or feasibility to catch oversteer, in general. It really seems to me that there is a very, very limited possibility to catch and correct oversteer. At least compared to other sims, or even real-life (not a racing driver, but some track day experience that is much different than what I find in PC2...).

I know it invites comments about setup, you're too slow to react, etc, etc. But in general I find that as long as you catch it really early, you have a chance. But if the rear end gets past about 15 degrees off line, then you're done and along for the ride.

Thanks for your opinions.

I would suggest FFB setting/lag is the most contributing factor, given that is our only information, as bradleyland points out below. I had some really nice settings for PC1 which worked across all cars, occasionally adjusting Master Spindle per car, but I am really struggling with PC2's new "simplified" system.

I thought I'd found a good setup yesterday which worked across 3 cars just adjusting Volume (V8 Supercar, Civic RallyX, Ferrari GT3), but was hopeless when I came to car 4 (BMW V12) with no warning of oversteer at all.


I'd also add that I have a much easier time catching oversteer when running a high-tone FFB setup, and relatively low overall force (lower gain). If my FFB histogram accumulates force in anything more than the 3rd column, I'm not able to move the wheel quickly enough in response to car movements. You want just enough FFB force to "feed" the wheel (release your hands and let the wheel correct itself), but not so much that you can't quickly overpower it with a light grip.

The importance of tone in this situation has to do with "self aligning torque" (Mz). Drifting a real car is actually way easier than drifting a sim, because real cars only have Mz force through the steering wheel, while Fy force is felt in your inner ear. The right kind of FFB setup can help though. The higher your tone, the more Mz force will be included in your FFB output. The wheel will naturally countersteer the slide for you. Your job, as the driver, becomes applying pressure away from the natural direction, in order to adjust the slip angle.

Low tone introduces more lateral g-force (Fy) into the FFB. This type of force can make drifting difficult, because lateral forces aren't self-correcting for oversteer.

Nice explanation, though I am really hoping the old "advanced" FFB menu makes a reappearance at some point. In the meantime I will have to continue the search for a decent setup with what we have, which invariably ends in me wanting to hurl my wheel at the TV at the moment.

xtro
20-10-2017, 16:34
I am not an expert in car and tire physics but my opinion is that the number one cause of oversteer is a controller or FFB not properly setup.

Chambon206
20-10-2017, 16:35
Try the World RX Cars on the rallytracks.
A lot of oversteer which depends of your own drivingstyle but wow this a lot of fun in PC2

bradleyland
20-10-2017, 17:36
Nice explanation, though I am really hoping the old "advanced" FFB menu makes a reappearance at some point. In the meantime I will have to continue the search for a decent setup with what we have, which invariably ends in me wanting to hurl my wheel at the TV at the moment.

What wheel do you use?

Dirtryder
20-10-2017, 20:29
Nice explanation, though I am really hoping the old "advanced" FFB menu makes a reappearance at some point. In the meantime I will have to continue the search for a decent setup with what we have, which invariably ends in me wanting to hurl my wheel at the TV at the moment.
Second that for the old ffb setting return.

cmch15
20-10-2017, 22:39
What wheel do you use?

G29 :-)

Rexel99
22-10-2017, 00:01
Still new to RC(2) and only using Dualshock but yeah, the over and under-steer was a big issue for me to get to grips with on this game - no FFB to feel it and a very short control travel to respond with.
Firstly understanding/finding the steering ratio (and having it save properly), also with all the assists turned on I still found it hard to get power down when recovering from overseer and still I find myself 'S'ing down a straight sometimes but on the other hand not having enough steering control means that a tad over speed into a corner you have no option but going wide. Also yes, getting that turning in speed right and feathering/controlling the accelerator out of the corners is a big lesson to learn and different (but good) from most car sims.
I feel this game requires too much setup knowledge and testing for each car, some default 'engineer' settings would be helpful for those wanting to drive a decent car out of the garage (as you may expect from being a driver) but so far I am finding that the default settings seem quite hard to control and not so fast as a result and a lot of changes are needed to get a controllable car. Is it possible to save/share/download/install configs from other people? Maybe sharing a basic set of downloadable car setups is something we could do?

Tom_2475221
23-10-2017, 11:37
When using a controller, what steering ratio you guys think is better for correcting a slide? Lowering it (to the left) or setting it higher (to the right)?
Thanks!

danowat
23-10-2017, 11:50
I think damper saturation and controller damping have the largest affect on being able to catch an oversteer slide.

It's easy to see what the issue is, setup a race on the Sampala ice track, in say the RS1600, and try and catch the slides, you will notice, at least with default settings, that the steering wheel a) doesn't turn fast enough to catch the slide, and b) that the game has some kind of soft lock limit on countersteering, you will notice the wheel will only go so far, and will then slowly add more countersteering as you continue to try and correct the slide.

In short, the wheel doesn't a) go fast enough and b) give you enough lock to properly catch the slide.

Now it is possible to alleviate some of this by adjusting the two settings I listed above, the damper saturation needs to be reduced to allow the wheel to become less "heavy" and allow you to counter steer quickly enough to catch a slide, controller damping also needs to be reduced to allow you to countersteer.

If you adjust these two settings in 5 steps (you will have to restart the race every time htough) untill you can catch a slide, then you will have the best settings for catching slides.

The downside of this is that is makes the controller quite sensitive, but you can't have everything it seems, you can either have a setup where you can catch a slide or a setup where the car doesn't feel very light and 'flicky'

Tom_2475221
24-10-2017, 11:08
Thanks! Yeah I do believe this is the only way to go now.
However, F1 2017 for example (which is not a sim) does this quite well for controllers. I'm a bigger of fan of PC2 because of the realism but then I expected even with a controller, it would detect when oversteering and allow you to countersteer and correct the car. Now it seems the steering settings just apply under all circumtances.

Other thing I noticed: When turning, the visible steering wheel barely moves to the left/right. The max degree turning angle also seems to lock at a quarter turn more or less.
Is this something that can be adjusted (controller)?

Rexel99
24-10-2017, 21:00
When using a controller, what steering ratio you guys think is better for correcting a slide? Lowering it (to the left) or setting it higher (to the right)?
Thanks!

I increase the steering ratio (to the right) to basically turn the wheels more at full lock, means you have to be a little more gentle/controlled on the corners but also means you can over-steer and turn the wheels in more if your going a little fast or wide and pull it in a bit. Usually this causes some sliding, tire wear etc but rather than grassing it it.

MLT24
24-10-2017, 22:41
I actually found the opposite in this game. In most sims you do go for a ride once rear end steps out, in Pcars2 I was very delighted to find more control when snapping car back into line, or on the edge. I could feel what the front wheels and rear wheels were doing, along with the cars lean, etc., it is my favorite part of the FFB physics in this game. Also, just loosen up the rear end a bit, helps with over-steer. I use T300rs.