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GT VIRUS
21-10-2017, 07:06
Because the 'ELO' (It's not a true ELO because it's not 0-sum) hasn't had enough time to spread out, why have you put on time trails that are impossible for most people to participate in? Besides there being no reason to restrict time trails in the first place, the highest tiers are currently way beyond what anyone has unless they have been exploiting the system.

Krus Control
21-10-2017, 14:04
Or they could just be changed to reasonable numbers like 1600 and 1700 instead of 2000 and 4000. Seems like an easy fix to me and I don't know why it's been left like this.

Andy Tudor
21-10-2017, 15:24
Hey there,

Ever since launch we've been monitoring the Competitive Racing License in order to ensure that the progression/regression of Skill Rating points is fair, and that the spread of players within each Tier is healthy.

The Bronze, Silver, Gold events are a testbed therefore allowing us gauge how many of those players are eligible for them and then choose to participate in them.

As you say, the Tier bands that are present right now appear to be too high and we will be making adjustments both to the Skill Rating system and future events based off this, in order to ensure a balanced special program in future.

bmanic
21-10-2017, 17:25
Surely you must be able to see from the back-end system if there are any persons who have 4000 skill points (my guess is that there are none).. are there even any 2000 point people around (again, my guess is there are a hand full or none).

Krus Control
21-10-2017, 17:28
Somebody already set a time in the silver 2000 trial have a look. And there's somebody on my friends list that's probably going to make it in this week. But 4000, there is just absolutely zero chance of somebody being at 4000 in my mind. Or maybe somebody wants to come forward and prove me wrong. I guess it is technically possible.

GenBrien
21-10-2017, 19:38
Surely you must be able to see from the back-end system if there are any persons who have 4000 skill points (my guess is that there are none).. are there even any 2000 point people around (again, my guess is there are a hand full or none).

it would help if you did not lose about 50pts on disconnection/sync error and you only get about 5pts for a win....

AEIDOLONE
21-10-2017, 23:45
We have our first official A2000+ fella. Congratulations to EatMyFanatec90! :D

Krus Control
22-10-2017, 02:00
This is strange if you look at EatMyFanatec90's score now it says A1770. Before it was A2002. I doubt he lost 232 points today. And I don't think this guy cheated because I've raced him and he's definitely good enough to have broken 2000. Would be a shame if he boosted his score. So I don't know if it's showing the wrong score now or it was before but this strikes me as odd.

palm3r
22-10-2017, 09:24
I think it's almost not possible to reach 2000+ rating in current state of multiplayer.
Current rating system is completely messed up, and it's exploitable.

And you can still get skill rating (number part of rating) by wrecking people and ignoring safety then get podium.
Is neccesery to reward to wreckers? (I don't think all people who has high skill rating are wreckers)
Why there's no reward to people who keep safety?

I think it's completely wrong that e-sports events restricts by skill rating.
Sportsmanship always should be appraise higher than speed.

tommysalami
22-10-2017, 15:26
I agree, it would be a great way to encourage higher safety ratings by restricting esports by safety rating rather than skill

Krus Control
22-10-2017, 16:55
Okay I took a look at EatMyFanatec90's diver stats. This guy did NOT make it over 2000. He only has 121 logged race wins and 164 total podiums. Just to get from 1800 to 2000 would take more race wins and podiums than that.

The guy boosted his score to post a time 100%.

AEIDOLONE
22-10-2017, 23:04
Okay I took a look at EatMyFanatec90's diver stats. This guy did NOT make it over 2000. He only has 121 logged race wins and 164 total podiums. Just to get from 1800 to 2000 would take more race wins and podiums than that.

The guy boosted his score to post a time 100%.

Pleeeease let it not be the first cheaters... :hopelessness:

GTRacerAce
25-10-2017, 09:46
Hey there,

Ever since launch we've been monitoring the Competitive Racing License in order to ensure that the progression/regression of Skill Rating points is fair, and that the spread of players within each Tier is healthy.

The Bronze, Silver, Gold events are a testbed therefore allowing us gauge how many of those players are eligible for them and then choose to participate in them.

As you say, the Tier bands that are present right now appear to be too high and we will be making adjustments both to the Skill Rating system and future events based off this, in order to ensure a balanced special program in future.

So these community events were eSport qualifier events if I am not mistaken. Where do you actually qualify for and which position in the end ranking do you need to qualify? Or were these events just a testbed for future real qualifier events?

Project CARS Esports
25-10-2017, 12:00
So these community events were eSport qualifier events if I am not mistaken. Where do you actually qualify for and which position in the end ranking do you need to qualify? Or were these events just a testbed for future real qualifier events?

As Andy said, those events are just a test bed for us to check some things with the Competitive Racing License system. We'll be using the information we've learned to make some adjustments to the system in upcoming game updates.

Exoil
27-10-2017, 08:09
As Andy said, those events are just a test bed for us to check some things with the Competitive Racing License system. We'll be using the information we've learned to make some adjustments to the system in upcoming game updates.

I'd say it need some adjustments.

I hosted a lobby yesterday and had 6 of my buddies in it and 3-4 random people. I have between 1600 and 1700 points and the others had 1300-1400 points. My friends are really good drivers but have been getting bluescreens or getting disconnected and therefore lost a lot of points. If I didn't win the race I would lose points, up to 15 points depending on where I finished but winning only net me 1 or 2 points. Seeing how few people I've raced that actually have 1500+ points I don't think you should get punished when you at least get a podium.

At least I haven't been booted from more than 2-3 races yet and managed to build up quite a few points in the first few days the game was released so I'm still over 1600, but the last week I've only gone down.

Marlborofranz
27-10-2017, 08:20
Indeed...

I mean it's nice to know sms is watching and tweaking it at the moment. Happy to see the guys keep working on the game to improve it!

Guess the system would be best if it was elo based. Friend and 1 had a 1on1 race, I spun and got dnf'd. Lost 29 points, he gained 12. 17 point lost in nirvana... at the moment it looks like the trend goes down, less and less points being a available. I fear that at some point having a score of 10 means you're an alien. :P but I am sure sms will have tweaked the system by that time.

menos
09-01-2018, 01:13
The point system currently is extremely unfair.
I am a very clean driver and simply back out in any situation that might to contact I get taken out by very aggressive drivers or even taken out purposely a lot.
The usual mode is that I qualify in the top 5 on many public servers, make it often just past turn 1 and latest by turn 2 someone smashes into me or spins me around.

I was working towards my S license and was finally about to get the first time to 1500 again when a series of foul servers full with crash people smashed those points up to sub 1400 again.

I had several times DNF’s because someone smashed into me and turned me on my roof, on one server was a U1500 driver who deliberately waited for peopleto crash into them, he took me out, crashed several times into me until my car was undrivable.

It is EXTREMELY frustrating that clean and competitive driving earns you so little but suffering from demented, brainless childs on the public servers destroys your license within just a few foul races.

I see no sultion to that. There isn’t even a filter option in the browser to filter out “U license” lobbies entirely.
Only by absolute luck will you find from time to time a server with mentally stable, serious racers and still from time to time the human waste will find it’s way inside those to screw other people up.

The whole license system is a great idea on paper. It just doesn’t survive contact with reality and evil minded people though it seems and makes user experience even more frustrating.

It needs to be balanced so that really good and clean driving is rewarded MUCH more.

Campo675
09-01-2018, 21:33
I like PC2 so much, but it can get me so frustrated!!

I was sitting on A1573 thinking only a handful not races and I can enter the time challenge for 1600 rating. Next race I race I finished in 3rd place, the guy that won and came 2nd had a Lower rating than me (I was rammed out the race in the first couple of laps and had to fight my way back to the front) and I actually lost points!! I was now sitting on 1559! How the hell can you finish on podium and loose points!!

Then things just got worse. Next race I entered, Red Bull ring I qualified in 2nd. Off the start and into the corner in first position when a guy from the back of the grid slams into me at full speed!! Go into pits to repair my car thinking itís fine iíll Work my way up again as there are many laps. Catch up to the back markers (probably one of the guys thatís took me out in the first corner, as I pass him on the straight he swings into me and ram us into the pit wall, not only do I have contact with the guy but also the wall. Thinking that I would much rather wait this race out in the pits and watch the destruction derby. I retire to the pits. I didnít want to quit the race as I agree that sort of behavior should be penalized. Race finishes and I get back on the home screen to discover I lost a ton of points for not finishing the race! Was now sitting on 1529 😡.

So took a day away from PC2, was just too angry to play again. So my very next race back in PC2, Sitting behind a group that were battling it out for a 2nd 3rd and 4th position, thinking to myself iím Gonna give them allot of space as they gonna take each other out. They did, as I came around the corner with 2cars on the track facing the opposite way, another car rolling off the track in reverse I try my best to avoid them which I did successfully, only to get a warning ďreturn the positionĒ with a count down timer! I actually had to park my car on the track, wait for them to get their cars pointing the right way again, see how they bump each other a couple more times before they eventually get past me just before the timer reaches 0. WT holly ****. So I eventually end the race in 3rd gaining 1 point. 16 cars finished the race. 1 point for a 3rd place??

🤬🤬 and to think I had to fight my way up from 1300 something after all the servers crashing etc cost me to loose the 15** something I had when I just started playing the game.

Blocking these time trials while the Racing license, points, rewards and penalties system is this much of a joke is Ridiculous!!

SMS, either fix your ďamazing e-sports competitive license systemĒ that you guys always push in interviews and articles or actually open up the time trials for everyone as at this point the only way to increase your points is through luck with having a grid full of respectful racers or having a groups of friends that you always race against.

Letís see if one of the devs comment on this in an actual helpful way.

rich1e I
10-01-2018, 14:07
SMS, either fix your “amazing e-sports competitive license system” that you guys always push in interviews and articles or actually open up the time trials for everyone as at this point the only way to increase your points is through luck with having a grid full of respectful racers or having a groups of friends that you always race against.

Let’s see if one of the devs comment on this in an actual helpful way.

How about using the safety rank (SR) to get clean lobbies to race in? That was the exact purpose the safety rank was introduced for. Race clean, improve your safety rank and join clean lobbies. You say you have an A rank. Start using the SR and open your lobbies. Maybe others will follow your example. The main problem is, most people create U and F lobbies. You really can't complain about rammers in U and F lobbies.

Campo675
10-01-2018, 14:37
How about using the safety rank (SR) to get clean lobbies to race in? That was the exact purpose the safety rank was introduced for. Race clean, improve your safety rank and join clean lobbies. You say you have an A rank. Start using the SR and open your lobbies. Maybe others will follow your example. The main problem is, most people create U and F lobbies. You really can't complain about rammers in U and F lobbies.

oh trust me, i have tried that on many ocasions... but for some reason always sit in the lobby alone or maybe 2 or 3 guys would join now and then. mostly i have to close the lobby and join another lobby. I have had some good races, but its not just the unrated lobbies with trolls. in fact, somebody said something on a youtube stream the other night that was very true. Said he is more careful of guys with D and up ratings as they have buffers to play around with, they can afford to have contact now and then to win a race or ensure a podium. so yeah... it would have been epic if your advice was accurate

rich1e I
10-01-2018, 15:43
oh trust me, i have tried that on many ocasions... but for some reason always sit in the lobby alone or maybe 2 or 3 guys would join now and then. mostly i have to close the lobby and join another lobby. I have had some good races, but its not just the unrated lobbies with trolls. in fact, somebody said something on a youtube stream the other night that was very true. Said he is more careful of guys with D and up ratings as they have buffers to play around with, they can afford to have contact now and then to win a race or ensure a podium. so yeah... it would have been epic if your advice was accurate

Oh really? So actually the only ones to stay away from are those with high SR lol I really have no patience anymore with such ignorant statements. How people can create such false narratives, is beyond me.

Campo675
10-01-2018, 18:38
Oh really? So actually the only ones to stay away from are those with high SR lol I really have no patience anymore with such ignorant statements. How people can create such false narratives, is beyond me.

dude, where in the "statement" do I state that the ONLY ones to stay away from are those with high SR? maybe you don't have patience anymore because you take things up wrong

rich1e I
10-01-2018, 20:36
dude, where in the "statement" do I state that the ONLY ones to stay away from are those with high SR? maybe you don't have patience anymore because you take things up wrong

I don't know how to say it in english, but sometimes you exaggerate to draw the attention on an issue or to point it out. His literal statement isn't any better that my exaggeration. But yeah, be careful with the guys with high SR, it might be unsafe to race them.

menos
11-01-2018, 13:07
oh trust me, i have tried that on many ocasions... but for some reason always sit in the lobby alone or maybe 2 or 3 guys would join now and then. mostly i have to close the lobby and join another lobby. I have had some good races, but its not just the unrated lobbies with trolls. in fact, somebody said something on a youtube stream the other night that was very true. Said he is more careful of guys with D and up ratings as they have buffers to play around with, they can afford to have contact now and then to win a race or ensure a podium. so yeah... it would have been epic if your advice was accurate

Thats a rather strange comment indeed.

From my experience with PC2 online racing (exclusively public servers so far) I had the bet races with clean and competitive driving with servers full of S, A and B license holders.
It takes effort to get to those licenses. Very rarely have I experienced dirty driving from such people, not just as all S,A and B license holders are such good people but simply because these people usually accumulate on certain servers and the bad sheep are swiftly sorted out and kicked.
Curiously though up to now these people usually gather on the odd F1200 or even U1000 servers around but the sorting out of bad guys on these servers does work with a good moderator around.

From my experience servers with low rating and full of U and F license holders are the ones clearly to be avoided.
If you absolutely have to get your racing fix and those are the only ones around and you are too impatient to wait for people getting on your own C+ server, just enter the wrecking kids server, do not qualify, race from the back of the grid, watch the explosions happening while avoiding the wrecks and race on the podium from then after while always watching your mirrors for potential dive bomb wreckers and being patient passing inexperienced, slower drivers.

It works - it's not pretty and certainly not the racing I enjoy the most.

I also started to simply move my former offline setup sessions online. I create a server with an A1250 (or slightly lower if I want another participant should someone be interested) and simply run qualifying and short races to collect data and build my setups or even learn tracks I don't know.

Usually one to three other racers will join now and then and as of the rating these small races usually are good fun, even not with a full field.
I also started a few of those servers recently with filling up the empty field with AI drivers set to a low 90% skill (so they usually end up in the back with people joining) but it fills the grid and makes for a more "racy" feeling.

I also do have to mention that as atrocious the AI was at launch day, it has been heavily improved since then and if you set aggression to 0% and up their skill above 90% they do make for some good fun.


Regarding your comment: I have never encountered a serious racer who went by the philosophy of racing dirty as his/her higher level license or skill is expandable. This is the most stupid idea I have ever heard.
This attitude is just not how racers think - at least to me entirely foreign and people I race with.

When you reach a certain level as a racer you simply want to race, win, compete, be better. Winning by racing dirty is not something you would accept. This is not playing first person shooters. There is a certain etiquette that goes along with developing yourself as a racer.
I have not encountered such people yet in serious online racing.

I have seen this behavior plenty though with beginners or people who do "cross gaming" coming from playing video game shooters and entering racing simulators without prior contact to motor sports, hence missing certain education about behavior on the track.
Usually those kids are quickly sorted out though. They usually fail to achieve (and loose interest) or when they learn and become faster they indeed pick up the lay of the land along the way.

One such individual I have raced with a lot. He came from playing FPS online and the first time he ever heard about racing games was less than a year ago. He is quick and very talented and within just the last few months has picked up speed to challenge the resident Alien drivers usually on those servers I race. He was pushy and ruthless (a bit like Verstappen if you will) but has learned what is and what is not acceptable and still gets quicker.


So … find those servers full with B+ license holders (often on the usual E and F public servers) and stick around or make your own high ranked server and race with the odd human participant either alone or against a field of AI.


I hope at a point in the near future there will be more ABC servers, no more unrated servers and much improved behavior online.
PC should have shipped with a offline driving school, teaching complete beginners what is and what is not acceptable in racing, forcing them also to earn that U license (before earning it: no online racing).
Also earning a certain license level should unlock the faster racing cars to race online.
A U license holder who picked up racing games recently just simply shouldn't be racing GT3 cars but first should learn his perks in 1.6L touring cars or Formula Ford.
The standard of driving on the GT3 servers from beginners is often truly hair raising. I am sure if these kids would be forced to earn their online racing license to be able to run in faster cars the standards would be much better.

Campo675
11-01-2018, 19:36
Thanks for the long reply, was fun to read and see your opinion. I agree that the majority of high rating players are safe, but I have many saved replays that show that it’s definitely not all of them.

Also, maybe I just have had really bad luck up until this point. Today was the very first time that I was in a server that had fast guys with high skill levels and safety ratings. Ironically the server was an E rating, so wasn’t that high actually. But what I experienced today in that lobby race after race was the first time since I have started playing PC2. I have had great safe races but it’s usually only one or two every now and then. Think we had between 7-9 races (can’t remember exactly how many) in that lobby today, and they were all great! I ranked up with from I think 1515 to 1607. So perhaps I finally experienced what you guys experience on a more regular basis.

Campo675
11-01-2018, 19:38
Oh and filling up with AI is actually not a bad idea... i tend to not do it because they were so bad, but if they have improved then I will give it a go

menos
12-01-2018, 00:42
I am glad you had a good experience.
Basically look inside the full servers (10-20 players), check on the majorities rating (if it is B or better with the majority), stick around for a few races and see how the moderator handles people.

Good servers you usually smell after one or two races. Bad ones stick out quickly too.

Stay away from servers will with U and F players.

Also pay attention to players who have a very high skill rating but very bad safety rating (U, F, E, D, …) - (way above 1500 is high - currently the good, fast A and S players have skill ratings in the ~1600 - 1800).

When you have raced a lot of events (and maybe have already a silver, gold or even rainbow colored batch, signifying that you raced a lot) and have a bad safety rating you have no business in racing online and one should stay clear from such people.

When you have a very high skill rating AND a bad safety rating (i.e. E1748) you are a racer is involved in A LOT of incidents (meaning taking high risks) but win races.

Just understand the combinations of ratings and the reason behind that and you are good ;-)