PDA

View Full Version : What can you tell from my telemetry?



Benkid
22-10-2017, 18:38
One for the tuners.

I'm trying to get into tuning to increase my lap times. I'm a sucker for just jumping in a stock tune because I just want to race but this is heavily reflected in my lap times.

Using the picture below taken after about 6-7 laps what can I learn from
the telemetry data and how should I use that information to tune.

243573

The car is the NSX GT3

Track is Redbull ring

Tyre pressures are 31 psi up front and 32 at the back

Brakes are reaching 600 degrees celcius when hard on the anchors.

MerlinC
22-10-2017, 18:51
Telemetry can tell you a lot - but only if you look at multiple signals as a function of time or distance. Just one data point on a straight is not very revealing.

tommysalami
22-10-2017, 18:56
Nothing that I can see. At this point, you have to start thinking about the following:

What is turn-in behavior like?

What is mid-corner behavior like?

What is corner exit behavior like?

Do you feel understeer at any point? What about oversteer? When you feel this, what are you doing with the brakes or throttle?

The rest of suspension tuning is all about changing the car's behavior at specific times. If you're getting oversteer on corner exit, but the car is well-balanced on turn-in and mid-corner, you would consider lowering rear slow bump. If the car is loose everywhere, you can raise the front spring rates or lower the rear ride height. Etc etc

Here's a good chart for shocks. The adjustments in the chart are referencing slow bump (also called compression) and slow rebound. Those are for the range of shock velocities where you're cornering. Fast bump and rebound settings are for behavior over kerbs and bumps. Reduce fast rebound/compression if you're getting loose over kerbs.

243575

You generally use springs and ride height to change the car's average balance throughout the entire corner. Additional rear ride height compared to the front will make the car more loose, but should also add more downforce. Hopefully this works in-game but I haven't tested it.

Front sway bar adjusts turn-in and mid-corner behavior, rear sway bar adjusts mid-corner and corner exit behavior.


Pick a setting, such as spring rates, and make wide adjustments to one setting, either the front or rear. Then go out and test it and see the difference it makes. When playing with settings to see what helps or doesnt help, always make big changes to only one setting at a time, then go out and test it and see what it does.

cpcdem
22-10-2017, 22:03
One for the tuners.
The car is the NSX GT3
Track is Redbull ring
Tyre pressures are 31 psi up front and 32 at the back
Brakes are reaching 600 degrees celcius when hard on the anchors.

If your brakes go over 600C, then open up the brake ducts, otherwise your braking distance will suffer. Don't worry about opening the ducts, they do not affect speed in PC2.
Also the current suggestion is to have lower "hot" pressures for the GT3s, around 26 psi.

Motor City Hamilton
22-10-2017, 22:35
Personally, I would run less camber. I like the outside and middle temps to be close to the same and the inside temp a little hotter.

hkraft300
22-10-2017, 23:27
Lower tire pressures, target ~1.8 hot (~28-29 psi?). 2.2 bar is too high.

Try the soft slicks: if that's your temps after 6-7 laps you're not running them hot enough at that track in those conditions. Looks cool enough for softs. That's what I run at red bull ring.

Also a bit more rear ride height for some rake.

Ravager619
23-10-2017, 06:15
I'd open up the brake ducts a little. Anything over 600 degrees is too high if you're doing a race. At some point, you'll experience brake fade. I'd also be concerned about the camber. I noticed the tire temps are about 11-12 degrees hotter on the insides. If you're running Time Trial or a five lap race you're fine. But if you're doing a longer race you'll likely wear out the inner part of the tire first and your lap times may drop significantly due to the change in handling.

Bealdor
23-10-2017, 06:46
The brakes are not too hot. The brake temp sensor is in a different location than in PCARS 1 and the brake fade model is also greatly improved.
General rule of thump is to have ~300C when you start to brake. It's not a big problem if the sensor shows you 800C for a short time after braking.

Your tires are too cold. Depending on the track temp I'd switch to soft slicks. A little bit less pressure could help too.

hkraft300
23-10-2017, 07:27
Would the 10 temp difference be a bad thing at Red Bull ring? There are short straights between the slow corners through sector 1/2. I'd say the camber is OK.


The brakes are not too hot. The brake temp sensor is in a different location than in PCARS 1 and the brake fade model is also greatly improved.
General rule of thump is to have ~300C when you start to brake. It's not a big problem if the sensor shows you 800C for a short time after braking.


This I didn't know. Steel brakes don't feel too good to me above ~600℃ though (once it hits that temp in the brake zone) in GTE/3 cars. I may be running them too cold in the group C cars, they feel faded at ~500℃ peak in the Jag. Might close the ducts.

Jussi Karjalainen
23-10-2017, 08:16
Brake discs moved to a more detailed model since pCARS 1, they now have separate surface and core temperatures (a bit like the tyres). In some longer braking situations you might see the brakes shoot up first and then cool down a bit even though you're still braking due to the wheels slowing down and heat migrating deeper into the discs. Overall I'd say you don't want them to flash up too much, the steel discs are at their best somewhere in the 600 C region, you probably don't want them hitting 700 for extended periods (peaking there quickly doesn't really matter). Carbon brakes are another story though.

Surprising to hear that the ducting doesn't affect speed, it definitely should, need to look into this if it really is a problem.

And yeah as bealdor said your tyres are quite cold, especially if that's after multiple laps. Either selecting a warmer season or trying out the softs could help. Tyre pressures are also quite high, you'd normally want to aim for about 1.8 bar when hot in the GT3 cars.

Rake isn't really easily deducible from a still image like that, you should focus on rake adjustments on smooth tracks (Mojave Cougar Ridge is probably the best for that).

skipptg
23-10-2017, 13:18
On the subject of rake, I noticed whilst testing around Daytona Oval (good track for setting up gear ratios I found), my Sierra Cosworth had 10 inches of negative rake front to rear at speed! I'm guessing that is not good.

LockeChris
23-10-2017, 13:35
If I may jump in on this for a quick questions about tire pressures:
Is there any sort of list or table showing the goal (hot) tire pressures for the different tires/cars in the game?

skipptg
23-10-2017, 13:37
If I may jump in on this for a quick questions about tire pressures:
Is there any sort of list or table showing the goal (hot) tire pressures for the different tires/cars in the game?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1402091#post1402091

drizzit
23-10-2017, 13:48
Same info as the one skipptg posted above but this is where the data for that table comes from for reference :)

Original post by SMS Casey http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2&p=1400146&viewfull=1#post1400146

rich1e I
23-10-2017, 14:21
What'd be the right tyre pressures for Group C?

hkraft300
23-10-2017, 14:45
What'd be the right tyre pressures for Group C?

I'd guess ~1.8 bar.

Ball325
23-10-2017, 19:00
NSX GT3 at Red Bull Ring. I hate to be the one to say it but running 1:39s, it isn't your tune.

Can you upload a replay to youtube or something? even if it's just a hot lap. I think we might be able to help from there.

Benkid
23-10-2017, 20:56
Wow some great advice already.

To be clear I haven't tuned the car apart from adjusting the gear ratio to achieve max range on the longest straight and tyre pressures as I heard we should be aiming for 32psi.

I'm basically asking for help on how to tune and what to make adjustments to as opposed to have someone tell me what settings to use. I want to use this post to teach my how to tune.

So the next thing I was going to do was adjust my camber angles to try and get an even temperature across the whole tyre surface and also look at a softer compound.

So at what point should I be switching from soft to hard?


NSX GT3 at Red Bull Ring. I hate to be the one to say it but running 1:39s, it isn't your tune.

To be honest it was a pretty half arsed attempt as I had my 18 month old climbing all over me whilst trying to set a lap so the lap time isn't great.

Ball325
24-10-2017, 20:05
Wow some great advice already.

To be clear I haven't tuned the car apart from adjusting the gear ratio to achieve max range on the longest straight and tyre pressures as I heard we should be aiming for 32psi.

I'm basically asking for help on how to tune and what to make adjustments to as opposed to have someone tell me what settings to use. I want to use this post to teach my how to tune.

So the next thing I was going to do was adjust my camber angles to try and get an even temperature across the whole tyre surface and also look at a softer compound.

So at what point should I be switching from soft to hard?



To be honest it was a pretty half arsed attempt as I had my 18 month old climbing all over me whilst trying to set a lap so the lap time isn't great.

I run the soft tire for qualifying regardless of exterior temp. It might not last very long on hotter tracks but, there is more grip.

As for the time, it's tough for us to diagnose anything if you aren't giving us your 10/10ths lap. if you say my tires are over heated and you are running a 1:31, ok we can start to diagnose. If you say the car understeers but are running a 1:39, that says something else. We can get an idea what a base tune's pace is as we all have it. My suggestion is to load the base loose or stable tune depending on preference (I think the loose will end up being faster), run ten laps and post each lap time, plus whatever the game tells you your potential is. Then we can start too look at what the car is doing. We might find that your pace is really consistent and that there are tweaks that need to be made. Or we might find that you need to work on consistency before we need to worry about adjustments. until we have that information, don't diagnose the car, just drive it. Assume any understeer or overseer is a result of your inputs not the car's set-up.

Jussi Karjalainen
25-10-2017, 21:02
I run the soft tire for qualifying regardless of exterior temp. It might not last very long on hotter tracks but, there is more grip.I tend to find that I'm almost always ultimately faster in the hard tyre unless I just plain can't get it up to temperature, usually by at least half a second. And it lasts longer, so why not.

But it's good that people have different experiences, one of the things that we were looking for with the tyres was that, just as in real life, what tyre you run isn't always an automatic pick. It should depend on the track, the conditions, the driver and the car. The last thing we wanted was to have a situation where you should always pick a single specific tyre and ignore all the others. =)

SGETI
25-10-2017, 23:18
the steel discs are at their best somewhere in the 600 C region, you probably don't want them hitting 700 for extended periods (peaking there quickly doesn't really matter). Carbon brakes are another story though.


My understanding and readings have stated there is not any difference in P2 between steel and carbon brakes temp. Your statement above suggest carbon brakes may run different temp. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Jussi Karjalainen
26-10-2017, 04:53
My understanding and readings have stated there is not any difference in P2 between steel and carbon brakes temp. Your statement above suggest carbon brakes may run different temp. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
There are definitely differences in the optimum temperatures between steel and carbon brakes.

Shogun613
26-10-2017, 10:48
To be honest it was a pretty half arsed attempt as I had my 18 month old climbing all over me whilst trying to set a lap so the lap time isn't great.

Oh man I feel your pain, as I too have a little one (16 months) that wants to get in on the action when I get my wheel out. I basically have to wait for naptime or when she's down for the night before I can get some good wheel time in...

Don-09141955
26-10-2017, 12:41
You don't have your racing gloves on. That's all i can see.

Benkid
26-10-2017, 21:12
Oh man I feel your pain, as I too have a little one (16 months) that wants to get in on the action when I get my wheel out. I basically have to wait for naptime or when she's down for the night before I can get some good wheel time in...

Haha got to love them. My rig is in my office and when I'm working my boy will
sneak in and play in the wheel

243932



You don't have your racing gloves on. That's all i can see.

I'll be sure to get a set when I'm next in town lol

drizzit
26-10-2017, 21:28
Can never start your gaming/racing career too early :D

Diluvian
26-10-2017, 22:24
There are definitely differences in the optimum temperatures between steel and carbon brakes.

How do I know if the car uses steel or carbon brakes? Is that anywhere mentioned?

Zenzic
27-10-2017, 12:29
There are definitely differences in the optimum temperatures between steel and carbon brakes.


Brake temperature actually has a much stronger effect on hot pressure than the tread temperature. If it feels good to you, keep running that way; but you might be giving up some grip over dropping the cold pressure a bit or running more brake cooling (if they are running too hot). As a general rule of thumb, all the brakes (carbon, iron, carbon ceramic) like to enter a heavy braking zone somewhere in the 300-350C range (570-660F)
Source (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55708-BUG-Possible-bug-with-Hard-Slicks-on-GT3-GTE-cars&p=1400072&viewfull=1#post1400072)

This is getting confusing. Not having this critical information structured in any way is one thing, but it's hard to know what is what when leads are saying opposite things. :) And Sgeti has a point; how can we figure out which car uses which type of brakes?

Markspeed
31-10-2017, 18:36
My understanding and readings have stated there is not any difference in P2 between steel and carbon brakes temp. Your statement above suggest carbon brakes may run different temp. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

There is a significant difference between steel and carbon brakes.

Firstly, steel brakes fade as they heat up, cool down, repeat, repeat. Carbon brakes, by comparison do not fade because of temperature.

However, carbon brakes require a certain temperature in order to work. Than they must be kept in that temperature range in order to continue to work.

From my understanding, carbon brakes fade only from time, as the material in the disk wears down from use, hard driving or otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken, carbon brakes need to be around 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, or Atleast 600 Celsius? Formula One brakes typically operate at nearly lava temperatures. Upwards around 2000 degrees Fahrenheit.

Steel brakes would warp and crack under load at those temperatures. Steel brakes wanna be around 3 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit, not more than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. They will definitely need to be vented and slotted, or they will fade very fast. A big problem in the early days of disk brakes.

From what I've learned, steel brakes can produce simular, even identical stopping or slowing distances on a race track. But carbon brakes can do it repetitively, whereas steel brakes will fade with heat and time. The carbon brakes will fade less in the same race, or not much at all.

There's much more to say on this subject, but I'm not the expert to say it. So I'll defer to those who are.

Ball325
01-11-2017, 21:17
I tend to find that I'm almost always ultimately faster in the hard tyre unless I just plain can't get it up to temperature, usually by at least half a second. And it lasts longer, so why not.

But it's good that people have different experiences, one of the things that we were looking for with the tyres was that, just as in real life, what tyre you run isn't always an automatic pick. It should depend on the track, the conditions, the driver and the car. The last thing we wanted was to have a situation where you should always pick a single specific tyre and ignore all the others. =)

I'd be curious to know if there are different grip coefficients for them or if it's purely temp based. I've noticed longer life with Hards so that can only lead one to believe the soft tire would have more grip. As I've progressed in this game, even on normal work speed I've found the soft tire at some track is only good for 1 hot lap. I'm hoping we can eventually dig up really good information for the tires in this game.