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homerlvsbeer
31-10-2017, 13:10
i have to say firstly.with respect to slightly mad studios. the game they have tried to create is epic in scale.
And one of the best games to date for sim like racing games. its an epic task to create life like cars in a game.

Let me say i am really talking about RAIN HANDLING.

I can see alot of effort has gone into the game to create that life like feeling.
but it is not finished. and thats my problem with the game.
Some cars like the Nissan R89c drive great in the rain. the feel solid. and an enjoying drive.
then you have the Porsche spyder 918 which is awful. it shouldn't be awful. this car was not mass produced it was so finely made they only made a few of them. and i am sure the handling of this car is amazing in real life.

so then i had a go in the Porsche 911 in the rain. it didn't act like the spyder 918 and you could drive in a straight line. but there was this sea saw effect. the steering would pull left then right left then right. as you put the throttle on.

now i have driven cars and i have never experience this in a real car. in fact i have never experience it in a game before.
this is work in progress. the handling is not finished.

every car is alien to another car.
now that is not what you experience in real life. every car you drive has a likeness to it. to its steering.
the feelings always the same through the steering. it does not change. their is teh wheel and the steering rack and the tyres same in every car it has a likeness in every car you drive. its only grip that changes.

ive also noticed that brakes in all these cars is weird. its like the brakes never fully apply and you find you have to brake well before any corner.


am not very happy with the game to be honest. i have had a much better experience and enjoyment from forza Motorsport 7. wr7 f1 2017 automobilista assetto corsa, gt sport, dirt rally, and many more.
i expected much more from project cars 2. after project car 1 id hoped we would get a well polished finished game.
but it is not.
it looks nice but it does not play nice.
i really enjoy the way the weather changes in the race and ho wyou can change the weather also like the live track technology but the handling no. it is not fun and not realistic.
i think slightly mad studios are trying too hard.
need for speed underground 2 was brilliant. and enjoyable. i do not get that experience form project cars 2. i do not enjoy it.

isnt that the whole point of games that we might enjoy them. the game needs much more work before we even think about new cars and tracks. the game needs to be polished and fixed. the ai also need fixing.

Sankyo
31-10-2017, 13:14
What controller are you using? And what assists?

I haven't driven the 918 Spyder in the rain in the game, but on a dry track it was an absolute blast to drive and throw into corners.

homerlvsbeer
31-10-2017, 13:19
i am using the thrustmaster t300 rs gt wheel
ive tried it with assists on full and i have tried it with assists off. rain handling is weird really weird.

homerlvsbeer
31-10-2017, 13:20
try it in the rain at zolder and tell me what your experience is. the dry is fine am sure but the rain is the issue i am reflecting upon.

danowat
31-10-2017, 13:20
Some cars are definitely better with a controller than others, some that you'd think would be hard to drive, like Gr C without assists, and cars like the OP mentions R89 and the GX-P, are actually a lot of fun to drive with the controller.

I agree that the 918 is a terrible drive, as least on controller, it's bad enough in the dry, I dread to think what it's like in the rain.

FxUK
31-10-2017, 13:22
I will admit, sometimes I drive a car in PC2 and think to myself, no way does this behave like it is here...
But, generally, yes, I do like the handling in PC2.

I think some of the problems of how its perceived is due to lack of real world feelings / effects, as in feeling of speed, g-forces, fear etc etc.
For instance, driving around irl, I'm not trying to shave a millisecond off my time, taking corners or roundabouts at 160mph, just like how in-game I am not trying to drive at 30mph (its actually quite hard to do that in-game, lol)

Also, personally, I have never driven a car on slicks with a race setup, only an OEM setup with general road tyres, so I haven't really got a lot to compare with, even though I do constantly try and compare it with my driving experience.. and I think that also plays a part in the perception.

However, I do find that I can generally drive better in VR than on a flat screen. In that I seem to be able to catch potential issues or correct them much more successfully, but I can also find myself driving a little slower overall too, the world scale doesn't half make a difference in that respect (for me) :/ I need to work on that.


Edit:

In Game, I just started the career championship with the 1978 BMW 320 TURBO GROUP 5.
I can't drive that thing for love nor money... actually, I'm considering just skipping / forfeiting the entire championship to choose something else, lol. Maybe I will come back to that one ;)

danowat
31-10-2017, 13:23
The LaFerrari is another one that drives really badly with the pad, the Assetto Corsa version, at least with a pad ,is miles better.

Keena
31-10-2017, 13:37
try it in the rain at zolder and tell me what your experience is. the dry is fine am sure but the rain is the issue i am reflecting upon.

Zolder is quite bumpy. Is it worth messing with your ffb to see if it's that?

LockeChris
31-10-2017, 13:38
I think I can kind of relate to your thoughts about the handling because I've had to get used to one important thing too: You just underestimate how much you put your foot down in the game. At least that has been what I observed. When I first tried the fast road cars, which naturally have much lower cornering speeds, longer brake zones etc than a racing car, but incredible acceleration I thought: where's all the grip??
But after a while, and after I really took it easy for a while and approached the limit from the safe side, it started to make sense and feel very natural. Cars like the 918 and even the 911 GT3 RS have loads of power, and since you don't get pressed into your seat you just don't really notice how much power you really try to put down when you pull the trigger. On a wet track, the 911 would definitely squirm around under acceleration as you described! A 918 would surely not be easy to handle with it's road tires (let alone the semi slicks) and that massive torque availability from the hybrid system. Another question is whether you use the authentic driving aids or not - without them, these cars can only be handled by pros in real life too.

And talking about different cars feeling totally different: There is an inconsistency in the FFB from car to car, which I think is a known issue (you can compensate with the FFB settings though), but then again different cars feel totally different in real life as well. I know what you mean about them basically all feeling the same, but go take, say, a Corvette C2 Stingray on radial tires to a track and then take an Audi R8 next and you have two COMPLETELY different experiences too. I don't think there is a mistake here in my opinion. :)

Paulpg87
31-10-2017, 13:39
I found many cars to be very hard to control compared to other games that claims to be simulators too (e.g. assetto corsa) but i'm no racing driver neither tested myself those cars at that speed so can't really say if it is wrong or right. Moreover the temperature/ track conditions makes an hell of a difference.

The only thing that makes things more difficult (except for odd live track situations that needs to be fixed like puddles) is the overall sense of speed which personally i don't perceive.

SunnySunday
31-10-2017, 13:41
The LaFerrari is another one that drives really badly with the pad, the Assetto Corsa version, at least with a pad ,is miles better.

But that understeer :jaded: in assetto's ferraris is absolutely horrendous.

bradleyland
31-10-2017, 13:45
OP is using a T300 RS.

bradleyland
31-10-2017, 13:50
I'm fairly happy with the handling in pCARS 2. It feels like an improvement over pCARS 1, but it's still kind of "drifty" for my tastes. This seems to be a character trait of pCARS in general. There's a feeling that the car is always sliding. My brain computes it as a very gradual and progressive traction break-away. If you look at telemetry (vrHive), you can see that the tires absolutely have a "break" point where traction falls of significantly (observed as a fall-off in lateral g-force during cornering), so it's not a "real" phenomenon in the game; just something that comes through the FFB and is perceived as being drifty.

IMO, each simulator has its own unique attributes. Which one you prefer depends on your individual perceptions and preferences. For example, I still prefer the feel of Assetto Corsa, but I recognize that the two are different games, and I wouldn't try to make the case that one handling model is somehow objectively superior to the other. That's above my pay grade. I can only speak to my own experiences.

danowat
31-10-2017, 13:51
But that understeer :jaded: in assetto's ferraris is absolutely horrendous.

At least it goes in a straight line when you press the pedal!

rich1e I
31-10-2017, 13:52
But that understeer :jaded: in assetto's ferraris is absolutely horrendous.

Not only the Ferraris. There are Hypercars in AC that are absolutely terrible to drive, while in RL they should drive like on rails.

LockeChris
31-10-2017, 13:53
The only thing that makes things more difficult (except for odd live track situations that needs to be fixed like puddles) is the overall sense of speed which personally i don't perceive.

True, that goes in hand in hand with what I tried to explain!

langy71
31-10-2017, 13:54
I would still like an improvement for us pad user's.

Marlborofranz
31-10-2017, 14:37
The only thing that makes things more difficult (except for odd live track situations that needs to be fixed like puddles) is the overall sense of speed which personally i don't perceive.

Try changing the FOV settings. I noticed that in other racing Sims the FOV is by default a fair amount higher. The peripheral vision and things flying by is what gives you the sense of speed, but on a tv or pc screen it's a trade off. The higher the FOV, the more "warped" the distances feel and it's hard to judge where to turn in and that stuff. I kept the standard FOV setting even though it feels slow, I actually am impressed how much better you're able to judge when to turn in, brake and such. The sense of speed is not different to any other sim as they are all using real distances, scales and speeds. It's just the FOV that needs to be tweaked to your liking.

@topic: I love the handling so far. Feels pretty neat... you can feel soft suspensions, overinflated tyres, weight transfers, grip changes, everything. You can feel it in your steering wheel whether you drive a high downforce car, a heavy car or a twitchy kart. And in Pcars 2 I love cars I hated before: caterhams and ktm's. Thanks to the good feel for what your tyres and suspension are doing it us actually a lot nicer to drive. They feel like living things

Madmazz116
31-10-2017, 14:58
I dont like the handling , with the controller , as thats all i have , far too much oversteer, and its been reported..I so hope it gets sorted.

LockeChris
31-10-2017, 15:04
I just tried the 918 in the rain I think the issues might just be the tires. It automatically sends you out on the medium P Zero, which is a Semi Slick and has terrifyingly low grip in the wet (I've tried that IRL). When you change to All Terrain it gets a little better, but these aren't normal road tires either. So basically, it's just like in real life: Better not take your hypercar out in the rain, unless you wanna go reeeaaal slow. :rolleyes:

Kingleo
31-10-2017, 15:16
I just tried the 918 in the rain I think the issues might just be the tires. It automatically sends you out on the medium P Zero, which is a Semi Slick and has terrifyingly low grip in the wet (I've tried that IRL). When you change to All Terrain it gets a little better, but these aren't normal road tires either. So basically, it's just like in real life: Better not take your hypercar out in the rain, unless you wanna go reeeaaal slow. :rolleyes:

There is also a bit of Tramlining in the rain. I experence this IRL all the time on P zero's

bradleyland
31-10-2017, 15:17
But that understeer :jaded: in assetto's ferraris is absolutely horrendous.


Not only the Ferraris. There are Hypercars in AC that are absolutely terrible to drive, while in RL they should drive like on rails.

I think you guys would be amazed at how much a hypercar understeers. I don't own a hypercar, but I have a very good client (and friend) who has owned Porsches, McLarens, and Ferraris, and he routinely tracks them. A frequent topic of conversation is how to dial out understeer in these cars. Yes, believe it or not, there are lots of people changing the suspension setup on their Ferrari 458, 488, McLaren MP4-12C, 570S, Porsche 911 Carrera S, 911 GT3, etc so that they handle better on a circuit.

When you build a hypercar that you intend to sell to the general public for hundreds of thousands of dollars, you have to accommodate average drivers who will use it primarily on the road, which means you cannot have it swapping ends under emergency braking maneuvers.

Having said that, I would love to hear from actual Ferrari owners who have driven the cars in various simulators. I owned an E92 M3, and the car in Assetto Corsa is spot on.

Rodders
31-10-2017, 15:55
To answer the OP question - I am on the whole very happy with the way that Project Cars 2 cars handle. TBH most of that is down to how the FFB feels which is generally excellent.

I'm really impressed by how hugely different all the GT3 cars feel. It's like they are completely different cars or something :p

This is with me coming from Automobilista which is widely regarded as having some of the best FFB out there and Project Cars 2 stands up to it with some of the best cars almost equaling the best AMS has to offer.

rich1e I
31-10-2017, 15:55
I think you guys would be amazed at how much a hypercar understeers. I don't own a hypercar, but I have a very good client (and friend) who has owned Porsches, McLarens, and Ferraris, and he routinely tracks them. A frequent topic of conversation is how to dial out understeer in these cars. Yes, believe it or not, there are lots of people changing the suspension setup on their Ferrari 458, 488, McLaren MP4-12C, 570S, Porsche 911 Carrera S, 911 GT3, etc so that they handle better on a circuit.

When you build a hypercar that you intend to sell to the general public for hundreds of thousands of dollars, you have to accommodate average drivers who will use it primarily on the road, which means you cannot have it swapping ends under emergency braking maneuvers.

Having said that, I would love to hear from actual Ferrari owners who have driven the cars in various simulators. I owned an E92 M3, and the car in Assetto Corsa is spot on.

I think the BMWs handle really nice in AC. I don't know why you mention it, because I was criticizing hypercars and supercars. Some of them are just aweful to drive in my opinion, even after a few setup changes. Of course manufacturers don't sell their cars with a race suspension. They should be comfortable to drive in first place, while you can stiffen the suspension by pressing a button when you're on track. I can't remember exactly which car was the worst, I think it was the Audi R8. This car drives just terrible, along with other cars that MUST handle better. It might be a bit understeery but it should be an absolute beauty to drive stock on a track.

----------------------

I do also like the new handling model in PC2. I think they did an awesome job.

AOD_ZedZedski
31-10-2017, 16:05
I'm not happy with snow handling because it doesn't work the way I get IRL when I drive my Audi Quattro in snow and have some pure Quattro Season.
Other that that, dry and rain handling seems to be pretty good. I like how car reacts when you hit puddles while accelerating or braking.

snakehands
31-10-2017, 16:29
try it in the rain at zolder and tell me what your experience is. the dry is fine am sure but the rain is the issue i am reflecting upon.

Just tried in on mediums in heavy rain (track very shinny) and there isn't a lot of grip. Stab con does a fantastic job of keeping it controllable through even with the back stepping out under power all the time in the lower gears.

Zeem
31-10-2017, 17:16
On Xbox One the rain has a tendency to set the tyres on fire faster than in the dry, which can be amusing if aggravating. :P

Aside from that though there's a noticeable change in the physics for sure. When the rain hits hard, the aquaplaning definitely comes into effect. Feels like you're skating through some of the corners, though not to the point it's like ice.

AutoCliubMonaco
31-10-2017, 17:27
The LaFerrari is another one that drives really badly with the pad, the Assetto Corsa version, at least with a pad ,is miles better.

To be fair, it doesn't drive much better with a wheel.....not Lamborghini Veneno bad but bad all the same. A lot of the hyper-cars are actually pretty dreadful to drive.

O-NO
31-10-2017, 17:43
Using a Xbox gamepad on PC I personally find some of the cars a bit 'floaty' and have some oversteer.

PeteUplink
31-10-2017, 17:50
I like the handling. Sometimes it feels a bit odd, but generally it's okay.

bradleyland
31-10-2017, 18:16
I think the BMWs handle really nice in AC. I don't know why you mention it, because I was criticizing hypercars and supercars. Some of them are just aweful to drive in my opinion, even after a few setup changes. Of course manufacturers don't sell their cars with a race suspension. They should be comfortable to drive in first place, while you can stiffen the suspension by pressing a button when you're on track. I can't remember exactly which car was the worst, I think it was the Audi R8. This car drives just terrible, along with other cars that MUST handle better. It might be a bit understeery but it should be an absolute beauty to drive stock on a track.

----------------------

I do also like the new handling model in PC2. I think they did an awesome job.

My point was two-fold:

1) That I think your assumptions about how real hypercars handle is incorrect (the R8 is notoriously understeery, btw).

2) I brought up the E92 M3 as a demonstration of the accuracy achieved in some cars, and in the context of pointing out that I'd love to hear from some owners of actual hypercars (there appear to be some in this thread).

LockeChris
31-10-2017, 18:31
... I'd love to hear from some owners of actual hypercars (there appear to be some in this thread).

If that was aimed at me because I mentioned my experience on semi slicks IRL I have to disappoint you :rolleyes: But I spent some days driving the Corvette Z06 that is in the game as well. At some point I had to drive it in the rain with said semi slicks and I could feel the grip going away at alarmingly low speeds when I tried it out a little bit where it was safe. If the rain hits you while you're on the highway with these tires you better take the next exit!
I can't really say much about the accuracy of that car in the game btw, since I couldn't performance-test it IRL - except for the wicked acceleration ;)

rich1e I
31-10-2017, 18:37
My point was two-fold:

1) That I think your assumptions about how real hypercars handle is incorrect (the R8 is notoriously understeery, btw).

2) I brought up the E92 M3 as a demonstration of the accuracy achieved in some cars, and in the context of pointing out that I'd love to hear from some owners of actual hypercars (there appear to be some in this thread).

Some hypercars might be a bit understeery, but I'm pretty sure they're not terrible to drive. That is just my experience when driving road cars in AC, but that's also off-topic and I think you know I'm not a big fan of AC's handling model.

taz1004
31-10-2017, 19:18
Some hypercars might be a bit understeery, but I'm pretty sure they're not terrible to drive. That is just my experience when driving road cars in AC, but that's also off-topic and I think you know I'm not a big fan of AC's handling model.

I agree. Tried driving LaFerrari on California Highway. No way that car is that touchy to drive on a highway. I've seen rich old grandpa's driving it.
Even the cars I enjoy driving in this game, I'm a bit dubious about realism of its handling.

rich1e I
31-10-2017, 19:36
I agree. Tried driving LaFerrari on California Highway. No way that car is that touchy to drive on a highway. I've seen rich old grandpa's driving it.
Even the cars I enjoy driving in this game, I'm a bit dubious about realism of its handling.

Ok but I wasn't talking about PC2, but I do not enjoy driving road cars in PC2 either except the Porsche GT3 RS which is ridiculous fun. I was pretty excited about the Jaguar XJ-220 but it seems I was expecting too much. It doesn't handle too bad but I'm not sure what the reason is why I don't enjoy much driving it. Maybe it's the sound, I don't know. The sound in PC2 is good in some cases but mostly absolutely terrible. I think LaFerrari will be the next as I haven't driven it yet.

Krus Control
31-10-2017, 19:46
I think all the supercars work amazingly well. Something to keep in mind is that the default setups do not reflect the way that the cars are set up in real life in most cases. They're generally in the ballpark, but are typically completely different if you get into the details. What I'm seeing in this thread is complaining about the default setups not matching the real life car's setups perfectly.

Take the GT86 for example, which is a car I own. The differential doesn't feel locked enough on the default, even though the numbers on the LSD line up with what the torsen delivers (4:1). To get the car to feel like the real deal you need to use the clutch LSD on top of the geared with 6-8 clutches and/or a high preload, or a different combination where you use a lower ratio with the geared LSD or a low power ramp. There are actually a lot of ways to get it to feel exceptionally close to real life. But also I don't feel that the suspension is a very good match on the default; the real car feels a bit more eager and electric. But this too I can fix by going in and balancing springs and dampers and camber.

So really, unless you own the car and have hundreds of hours logged in it AND you've specifically taken that car out and driven it with the intention of comparing it to PCARS AND have a very nice wheel with your force feedback perfectly configured by using your real car as a reference AND you've played around with all the setup options and tried every possible combination to try to get the in game car to match up with what you see in your real car...stop complaining about things being unrealistic.

SMS really, really knows what they're doing and things are the way they are for very good and thought out reasons. I'm not saying it's 100% perfect in any car, but there is a fine line between constructive criticism and whinging about how you think a car should feel from a video you watched, some fleeting driving experience, or having ridden in one.

When I dial in the setup on the GT86 properly I can't find any difference whatsoever from my real car.

taz1004
31-10-2017, 20:11
I think all the supercars work amazingly well. Something to keep in mind is that the default setups do not reflect the way that the cars are set up in real life in most cases. They're generally in the ballpark, but are typically completely different if you get into the details. What I'm seeing in this thread is complaining about the default setups not matching the real life car's setups perfectly.

Take the GT86 for example, which is a car I own. The differential doesn't feel locked enough on the default, even though the numbers on the LSD line up with what the torsen delivers (4:1). To get the car to feel like the real deal you need to use the clutch LSD on top of the geared with 6-8 clutches and/or a high preload, or a different combination where you use a lower ratio with the geared LSD or a low power ramp. There are actually a lot of ways to get it to feel exceptionally close to real life. But also I don't feel that the suspension is a very good match on the default; the real car feels a bit more eager and electric. But this too I can fix by going in and balancing springs and dampers and camber.

So really, unless you own the car and have hundreds of hours logged in it AND you've specifically taken that car out and driven it with the intention of comparing it to PCARS AND have a very nice wheel with your force feedback perfectly configured by using your real car as a reference AND you've played around with all the setup options and tried every possible combination to try to get the in game car to match up with what you see in your real car...stop complaining about things being unrealistic.

SMS really, really knows what they're doing and things are the way they are for very good and thought out reasons. I'm not saying it's 100% perfect in any car, but there is a fine line between constructive criticism and whinging about how you think a car should feel from a video you watched, some fleeting driving experience, or having ridden in one.

When I dial in the setup on the GT86 properly I can't find any difference whatsoever from my real car.

Why is every opinion not glorifying the game a "complaint" on this forum? And now I need to own the car before giving my opinions?

Krus Control
31-10-2017, 20:24
Why is every opinion not glorifying the game a "complaint" on this forum?

Where did I say anything like this?

If you're saying "There's no way the car is that touchy to drive" with "I've seen rich old grandpas driving it" as your evidence; that's just your opinion and that is a complaint by the way. But nobody attacked you over this.

People can think whatever they want and post whatever they want. But if it's just plain wrong it's probably going to get pointed out as being wrong on this forum. If you don't have experience, and extensive experience at that, in a car there is no way you could tell if it is or isn't realistic from driving it in PCARS.

taz1004
31-10-2017, 20:29
Where did I say anything like this?

If you're saying "There's no way the car is that touchy to drive" with "I've seen rich old grandpas driving it" as your evidence; that's just your opinion and that is a complaint by the way. But nobody attacked you over this.

People can think whatever they want and post whatever they want. But if it's just plain wrong it's probably going to get pointed out as being wrong on this forum. If you don't have experience, and extensive experience at that, in a car there is no way you could tell if it is or isn't realistic from driving it in PCARS.

Read the title and question being asked by the original post. It is ASKING for opinions. Did you expect ALL opinions to be praise of the handling? Is everyone who doesn't think it's right complaining? Do we have to own the cars to give our opinions? Is there right or wrong on OPINIONS?

Krus Control
31-10-2017, 20:42
Read the title and question being asked by the original post. It is ASKING for opinions. Did you expect ALL opinions to be praise of the handling? Is everyone who doesn't think it's right complaining? Do we have to own the cars to give our opinions? Is there right or wrong on OPINIONS?

Look man, I'm not attacking you over this, just to be clear. I think that's totally fine if you're not happy with a car's handling. And I'm not even saying you're wrong; the handling might be totally screwed up. But without a reference you can't say at all whether that's the case. I think the La Ferrari and most supercars feel great. But is it realistic? I've no idea.

Again, like I just said, you can post or have whatever opinion you want. But there is a massive difference between going "I drove this car once in PCARS and I don't think it feels good" and saying "This car is unrealistic based on extensive real experiences with it."

It's discussions like this throughout both WMD programs and on this very forum that gave SMS the feedback they needed to make the game so realistic. Saying that this forum frowns on negative opinions is ridiculous. But if you're saying stuff with no basis in reality you're probably going to get a response from somebody with a basis in reality telling you how that's wrong.

repsol23
31-10-2017, 21:01
I will admit, sometimes I drive a car in PC2 and think to myself, no way does this behave like it is here...
But, generally, yes, I do like the handling in PC2.

I think some of the problems of how its perceived is due to lack of real world feelings / effects, as in feeling of speed, g-forces, fear etc etc.
For instance, driving around irl, I'm not trying to shave a millisecond off my time, taking corners or roundabouts at 160mph, just like how in-game I am not trying to drive at 30mph (its actually quite hard to do that in-game, lol)

Also, personally, I have never driven a car on slicks with a race setup, only an OEM setup with general road tyres, so I haven't really got a lot to compare with, even though I do constantly try and compare it with my driving experience.. and I think that also plays a part in the perception.

However, I do find that I can generally drive better in VR than on a flat screen. In that I seem to be able to catch potential issues or correct them much more successfully, but I can also find myself driving a little slower overall too, the world scale doesn't half make a difference in that respect (for me) :/ I need to work on that.


Edit:

In Game, I just started the career championship with the 1978 BMW 320 TURBO GROUP 5.
I can't drive that thing for love nor money... actually, I'm considering just skipping / forfeiting the entire championship to choose something else, lol. Maybe I will come back to that one ;)

I just started the same championship last night with the BMW 320i and I also had a hell of a time keeping that car from spinning out all the time. I went in and adjusted the power ramp angle in the differentials, I raised that value to 500 or 600 I believe and it made a world of difference for me.

Hope this helps!!

hkraft300
31-10-2017, 21:12
....
i think slightly mad studios are trying too hard.
need for speed underground 2 was brilliant. and enjoyable. i do not get that experience form project cars 2. i do not enjoy it.

isnt that the whole point of games that we might enjoy them...

Project cars 2 is A LOT to handle. If you don't have all the settings, every variable, dialled in just right, it can be a joyous or horrible experience depending on who you speak to.

Everything from season, to track temp, setup, tire compound/type, location, temperatures of even the brakes, track rubber... it's too many moving parts for a Sunday gamer.

Maybe your ffb settings are off.
Maybe you drove with a bad setup.
Maybe the tires were too cold/flat.
All these things will affect your perception of how the car drives in the game.

Also, can everyone stop comparing their street driving on street tires experience to racing at full tilt on a track in a sim? That's just silly.

Personally I think wet tracks have a lot of grip in the rain in race cars but this opinion is completely uninformed. I have never driven a race car in the rain or a road car on a wet race track at speed. but I still love how the cars handle in rain, the way the ffb jerks and the car skates over puddles...

rich1e I
31-10-2017, 21:52
I think all the supercars work amazingly well. Something to keep in mind is that the default setups do not reflect the way that the cars are set up in real life in most cases. They're generally in the ballpark, but are typically completely different if you get into the details. What I'm seeing in this thread is complaining about the default setups not matching the real life car's setups perfectly.

Take the GT86 for example, which is a car I own. The differential doesn't feel locked enough on the default, even though the numbers on the LSD line up with what the torsen delivers (4:1). To get the car to feel like the real deal you need to use the clutch LSD on top of the geared with 6-8 clutches and/or a high preload, or a different combination where you use a lower ratio with the geared LSD or a low power ramp. There are actually a lot of ways to get it to feel exceptionally close to real life. But also I don't feel that the suspension is a very good match on the default; the real car feels a bit more eager and electric. But this too I can fix by going in and balancing springs and dampers and camber.

So really, unless you own the car and have hundreds of hours logged in it AND you've specifically taken that car out and driven it with the intention of comparing it to PCARS AND have a very nice wheel with your force feedback perfectly configured by using your real car as a reference AND you've played around with all the setup options and tried every possible combination to try to get the in game car to match up with what you see in your real car...stop complaining about things being unrealistic.

SMS really, really knows what they're doing and things are the way they are for very good and thought out reasons. I'm not saying it's 100% perfect in any car, but there is a fine line between constructive criticism and whinging about how you think a car should feel from a video you watched, some fleeting driving experience, or having ridden in one.

When I dial in the setup on the GT86 properly I can't find any difference whatsoever from my real car.

Yeah I know, if you put some time in tuning the cars they might feel a lot better. That's for sure. I just started to jump in some road cars lately as i'd like to drive at least once every car in the game. I do actually hope we won't get much more road cars in future DLC packs as I think we already have too many. Of course, it's always nice to have some "jewels" like the XJ-220, the Caterham or the Mustang '65 but I think 30+ road cars is just too much effort and energy wasted. I can imagine it's a lot of work modelling a car.

Blaze1985
31-10-2017, 21:52
since the last patch the handling and the ffb effects sucks so hard:(

game was better before the patch!

JasonB
31-10-2017, 22:02
Haven't read the thread yet, but for the most part, yes I very much am. I find the FWD cars to be completely foreign, and I do wish the "pull through the corner" effect they have in other titles (and real life... ahem :) ), but I find RWD to handle beautifully... and honestly, I'm having a stupid amount of fun driving Kart, which is extraordinarily life-like.

poirqc
31-10-2017, 22:38
I gotta say the default Informative feels pretty nice on a G27. Cars behave in a predictable way, in general. Whenever a given situation occurs, i can always get away with it in a meaningful way.

As weird as it sounds, having the FoV properly setup also influence how the FFB feels. At the end of the day, it's a closed loop. What you see will influence your inputs, witch are sent to the car. The car then weight shift in a way you fell that makes your correct based on that, etc, etc...

It's a complex system to say the least.

From my PoV, they did a good job and released a solid baseline!

Roushman624
31-10-2017, 22:56
I know it was super difficult before the patch to handle the Aston Martin Vulcan but now I'm a master at taming the beast.

OperatorWay
31-10-2017, 23:18
...unless you own the car and have hundreds of hours logged in it AND you've specifically taken that car out and driven it with the intention of comparing it to PCARS AND have a very nice wheel with your force feedback perfectly configured by using your real car as a reference AND you've played around with all the setup options and tried every possible combination to try to get the in game car to match up with what you see in your real car...stop complaining about things being unrealistic...

Virtually nobody on the planet meets all of those criteria, so apparently nobody can have an opinion on it.

hkraft300
01-11-2017, 00:30
Virtually nobody on the planet meets all of those criteria, so apparently nobody can have an opinion on it.

Opinions are like a*holes. Everybody has one.
:p

Reckon the GT cars are really grippy in the wet but I'm no race driver. My opinion is of zero value.

Still great fun though.

Roushman624
01-11-2017, 01:42
The laferarri can be quite tricky at times but I'm getting used to it.

hkraft300
01-11-2017, 02:22
The laferarri can be quite tricky at times but I'm getting used to it.

The thing i find about the super cars are the are way faster than race cars in a straight line, but lack the braking and cornering grip. They're also a lot heavier.
Laferrari on street or semi-slicks can't corner or stop like a GT3 car. Got to adjust brake distances a lot.

SunnySunday
01-11-2017, 03:01
All in all I'm very pleased with the handling of pcars2. I think most cars handles very realistically (at least what I would consider realistically as I'm no race driver myself). I think the force feedback lacks a little bit in detail compared to rfactor 2 for example. But the differences is pretty small. And considering how much more content and features this game has, it is still the far better buy imo. I've never had this much fun in a simulator before.

Atak Kat
01-11-2017, 04:37
Happy with the handling? Yes and No.
- Yes, because its a great simulation of driving and racing, even if not perfect. Its not an arcade type handling. Its as close to driving some of the cars and tracks as many of us will ever get.... I believe there is a lot of stuff in the background of the game that we don't realize, and the complexity there must be enormous. I think there is a beast in there somewhere.
- No, because I believe there are still lots of silly things in the game/interface that don't make sense and spoil the experience that it could be. Handling specifically (tire issues, setup screen confusions, etc). Those things impact my happiness with the handling, because they generally limit my ability to explore it further. I know, I read everyday another patch is coming, so I'm patient. But its a bit like buying a new Ferrari and finding that the engine randomly shuts off, doors don't close right, third gear doesn't work, the right turn signal comes on when you want to go left, one of the tires is not matched to the other 3, and the 'start' button has the word 'stop' printed on it.... I'm hopeful when all those things get cleared up, we can really unleash the beast...
-another No, because I'm on PS4 and I am convinced there are big differences in the handling perceived vs PC. I'm talking about the FFB modelling mainly, for wheels. Even if just glitches or bugs with pending fixes... it is annoying and impacts my opinion on the handling.

hkraft300
01-11-2017, 05:28
Ffb impacts many people's opinion on the physics, and although ffb is derived acutely from the physics simulation of the car on simulated rubber tires on a simulated road surface, the subjectivity surrounding ffb can greatly dilute what is going on with the physics underneath.

Then there's the UI glitches that has nothing to do with the physics/simulation aspect, but the end user's perceived quality of the overall product can be greatly hurt.

That said: when that confusing temperamental Ferrari hooks up and gets going, there's little to compete in terms of the smiles and wow factor it produces.

snakehands
01-11-2017, 06:54
Handling feel excellent to me but I’m sat in a racing rig with vr and a quality FFB wheel. I sent PC2 to my tv via steam link, sat on the sofa and ‘drove’ with a game pad last night, yeah it’s not the same. I wouldn’t put much store in the opinions of people who play like that.

danowat
01-11-2017, 08:11
I have driven alot of different cars, powerful, not so powerful, slicks, road tracks, road, track, quite a range of situations, sure I haven't driven everything, but when you'd driven a lot of things in lots of different situations, then you can still have an opinion on how you'd 'expect' something to drive based on experience of other cars.

Now, I've never driven a LaFerrari, I don't think many people will ever get chance too, but it doesn't drive anything like I'd expect it too, and if I brought one and it handled like the PC2 version, I'd get them to take it back!

Marlborofranz
01-11-2017, 10:58
I think what also needs to be considered is that the default setups are tweaked by sms, there are OEM setups you can load for the road cars that are supposed to reflect how the car handles when you get it from the manufacturer without any modifications for racing tracks.

And I agree some of the cars feel "shit" compared to gt race cars but the problem is while we think we don't accelerate hard, these cars are still accelerating more than when you squeeze the throttle on a regular road car. Guess it's the feels in your butt-o-meter missing to show that the forces are quite high already :P

hkraft300
01-11-2017, 11:11
What is your definition of "handling"?
What is your idea of good handling balance?

Is "handling" to you: the outright, on-the-limit performance ability of the Car? Or is it drive-ability on the limit? Or something else?

What is good handling: do you prefer neutral/oversteer/understeer?

Sankyo
01-11-2017, 11:35
What controller are you using? And what assists?

I haven't driven the 918 Spyder in the rain in the game, but on a dry track it was an absolute blast to drive and throw into corners.

So I gave the 918 a short go at Zolder in the rain this morning, making sure to have tyres 'Automatic by Weather'. Car felt fine and believable in a straight line (all assists off for testing purposes), no left-right weaving of any kind unless I stomped the throttle or hit a puddle (combined with too much throttle).

The only thing I found with the car is that on cold tyres there was little lateral grip, which combined with FFB weight dropping away on a wet track gave the impression of a floating car. Can't judge whether the reduced lateral grip was at realistic levels, but I wonder (didn't try) whether it's possible to get any heat in the tyres if you have to tip-toe around the track to prevent sliding off-track or spinning.

Madmazz116
01-11-2017, 11:39
So I gave the 918 a short go at Zolder in the rain this morning, making sure to have tyres 'Automatic by Weather'. Car felt fine and believable in a straight line (all assists off for testing purposes), no left-right weaving of any kind unless I stomped the throttle or hit a puddle (combined with too much throttle).

The only thing I found with the car is that on cold tyres there was little lateral grip, which combined with FFB weight dropping away on a wet track gave the impression of a floating car. Can't judge whether the reduced lateral grip was at realistic levels, but I wonder (didn't try) whether it's possible to get any heat in the tyres if you have to tip-toe around the track to prevent sliding off-track or spinning.

Try that with a pad.

seb02
01-11-2017, 11:41
I must say that the stable setup (I play with a controller) is a great addition. I can drive the road cars on Project cars 2, something I could not do on PC1. In addition, I'm not very good at the settings so it suits me very well. Thank you SMS for the stable setup. Well done.

Sankyo
01-11-2017, 11:44
Try that with a pad.

With a pad, straight-line stability when on the throttle should be the same (which is what the OP is about). I can imagine that the lateral grip thing may be more difficult to deal with on a pad.

snakehands
01-11-2017, 11:44
Try that with a pad.

And there in lies the problem. How can people flicking a gamepad give any useful feedback on handling? Especially if they are driving from third person view!

Madmazz116
01-11-2017, 12:18
And there in lies the problem. How can people flicking a gamepad give any useful feedback on handling? Especially if they are driving from third person view!

so your saying because I use a pad i have no say in whether the game handles very well?..it doesnt , not on a pad. and as a consumer I should be able to choose whatever view i want and still have the game handle ok.

iggy
01-11-2017, 12:21
I love the feel of the handling in the rain on many of the cars I've tried... Dry... well, I have all sorts of issues. I'm still learning, and I know that as I've started to make some tweaks to setup, I've been able to drive better on some or most of the cars I've tried so far, there are still things that just don't seem right to me. I have never driven any car worth more than about $40,000 USD, so my experience with real life and all these cars is , virtually non existent. Having said that, I drove one of the McLaren cars in PC2 and found it to be just impossible to drive... if that car really handles like that in RL, I would think that 95% of them get wrecked the first month that someone owns one.

So... in general, I'm starting to really enjoy what the Project Cars 2 people have put together, but I suspect that in their attempt to get things accurate, they've manged to make things really mucked up for some cars or situations... And... I'm not saying it's total garbage, but it seems to me, that virtually every car in PC2 ought to have a sort of 'beginners' setup that it has right out of the box, and make it somewhat drivable for us mere mortals... I don't see this option in there anywhere

bubbadabutcher
01-11-2017, 12:26
I think the game handles well with a controller. it's just that we have something like 20mm travel on throttle and brake and maybe 40-50mm on the "wheel". it's a sim and should be more difficult to drive smooth, correct, catch, etc., especially with the restriction of a controller.

Madhun67
01-11-2017, 12:28
its really about how close to reality you want to mimic this sim at home playing it....................sorry to say pad users ,while some are record holders , are not in the same league when talking about physics are involved.Todays sims are "meant" although by a majority are not played with a wheel.I say that with respect,as i started on the pad shifting with shoulder buttons in Richard Burns rally back in 2004 and Rfactor.While you can manipulate and transform feel of a pad into replicating the movement of a controlled steering linkage ,its still in a different category when you drive with a proper setup.All im saying is that expectations on what youre able to do in respect to car control,is limited with a game pad.This is all just my opinions:)

Zaskarspants
01-11-2017, 12:28
Less experienced player setup or pad - stable.

I use a wheel and I tried some of the stable setups. I found I was slightly slower with stable but the powerful road cars were a bit less of a handful.

Throttle control is very important with supercars, more power than a race car, more weight, less grip, easy on the throttle does it.

Madmazz116
01-11-2017, 12:30
I think the game handles well with a controller. it's just that we have something like 20mm travel on throttle and brake and maybe 40-50mm on the "wheel". it's a sim and should be more difficult to drive smooth, correct, catch, etc., especially with the restriction of a controller.

There is MASSIVE oversteer with a controller , the car goes into full lock left or right before your anywhere near moving the stick full lock

Roger Prynne
01-11-2017, 12:33
And there in lies the problem. How can people flicking a gamepad give any useful feedback on handling? Especially if they are driving from third person view!


snake hands you're doing it again, you already have an infraction for your elitist comments, so just stop OK.

Sankyo
01-11-2017, 12:33
There is MASSIVE oversteer with a controller , the car goes into full lock left or right before your anywhere near moving the stick full lock
Is this not curable with adjusting steering sensitivity in the game?

bubbadabutcher
01-11-2017, 12:35
I know how it is, I'm on a controller too and find I can't reliably drive most cars without a bit of tuning first. I still stand by my previous post.

are you using the stock controller settings, Madmazz? if so, I recommend trying Johnson racing or super gt's settings as a starting point. both on YouTube, both good in my opinion.

banner77amc
01-11-2017, 12:37
Is this not curable with adjusting steering sensitivity in the game?

This is very curable... but like anything it requires a "feel". I still have directional pad mentality sometimes.

belaki
01-11-2017, 12:41
I drove an NSX for 10 years as a daily driver. It pushed, hard, at the limit with the factory setup, as well it should. Having Joe Blow flying backwards off a freeway on-ramp into 80 mph traffic is very bad business.

That said, one of the great failings of FFB to date is the dead nuts reproduction of what an understeering tire actually feels like at the limit. It is nowhere near the same feeling as a lock-up under breaking, which is what FFB generally gives you in both cases. An additional failing of all the tire models I have tried is the true reproduction of rate of deceleration that an understeering tire will cause, especially in a road car.

But with each passing year the sims are getting better and better.

All that said, I don't even understand the question about "the" handling in project cars. There is no "the" handling. There is "the" car I'm driving and "the" setup I driving with. If you come to this game expecting to get a show room ride that works at the limits at racing pace you're missing the point of the game.

And if you're looking for an arcade experience with your controller with no effort on your part to understand what creates a winning setup, then you have a set of unrealistic expectations.

Further, the set up of your own cockpit is crucial. Proper FOV, FFB, steering and braking sensitivity settings, ergo - they are all critical.

How do you know that part is good? Simple. When sitting IN THE CAR, driving a given course at safety car pace, if the car turns when expected, at the rate expected, with correct steering linearity, and predictable braking feel and distance you know you can now sit down a and START to figure out how THAT car can go quick enough to be competitive in YOUR hands.

If this level of detail is too much, then you need to be prepared to be happy crashing out and posting poor lap times.

It isn't the "game." It's you.

Sorry if this sounds confrontational in any way. The main point is PC2 is amazingly realistic and satisfying with a little personal commitment thrown in.

Madmazz116
01-11-2017, 12:50
Is this not curable with adjusting steering sensitivity in the game?

No its not ..there is a thread about it ..here... http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55672-Reported-DS4-issues-apparent-steering-saturation
But Ive no idea if its being looked at , would be nice to know.

thevilleky
01-11-2017, 13:15
I drove an NSX for 10 years as a daily driver. It pushed, hard, at the limit with the factory setup, as well it should. Having Joe Blow flying backwards off a freeway on-ramp into 80 mph traffic is very bad business.

That said, one of the great failings of FFB to date is the dead nuts reproduction of what an understeering tire actually feels like at the limit. It is nowhere near the same feeling as a lock-up under breaking, which is what FFB generally gives you in both cases. An additional failing of all the tire models I have tried is the true reproduction of rate of deceleration that an understeering tire will cause, especially in a road car.

But with each passing year the sims are getting better and better.



This is perhaps the point of talking about the handling. It is a simulation of a real car, so some wonder how accurate that simulation is. To question the veracity or accuracy of the underlying handling, tire model, ffb, etc, are valid critiques of the game. You specifically note that the feel of understeer in the game is unrealistic or not accurate compared to your personal experience.

The concepts about handling being setup dependent are equally valid, but ultimately everything is beholden to the underlying physics simulation. If this is off or doesn't feel right this could be the setup, it could also be the handling model of the game.

I think a lot of people would be better served considering that a poor handling car is not a failure of the underlying physics engine, but a poorly setup car. At the same time its completely relevant to consider the accuracy of the underlying physics and tire simulation, which is what I believe people are discussing when they ask about the handling.

belaki
01-11-2017, 13:29
I don't believe I questioned the validity of taking a critical eye to the physics engine and tire model. If I didn't think the physics engine or tire model were important I'd drive Forza for other reasons other than to remind myself of just how bad physics and tires can be modeled.

I do question the validity of long-winded discussions about p/t models if one hasn't yet taken the basic steps to set up their environment (otherwise known in the data engineering world as a TEST LAB).

RaceNut
01-11-2017, 13:55
Some aspects in Sim's need to exceed those of reality IMO. For example, being that we lack certain information in Sim's compared to driving real cars, there are certain cues that we rely on in order to "feel" what the car / suspension / tires are doing in the virtual world.

While I do find PC2 to be fun overall and improved over PC1, the cues I rely on for translating handling for me are still lacking when compared to other Sim titles - especially AC / AMS / rF2. Those other titles require more finesse with steering / throttle / brake inputs and the FFB and tire audio have more nuanced information for judging how the car / suspension / tires are interacting with the environment and surface. The feedback I get in those titles is more refined and allows for much greater control and immersion related to feeling the car on edge / the threshold of grip (both front and back). For various reasons, not everyone cares about or experiences the same things in Simulation but, personally - these are vital for a racing title's long term success on my playlist.

The PC2 racing environment is really good and can be incredibly exciting with all of the different variables being possible. PC2 improved on PC1 in so many regards but, my view is that there is still more evolution to be done in terms of reaching the top of the Sim charts. After spending time to become well-acclimated to PC2 handling and FFB, I found the experience good but, still a bit vague in terms of communication with the virtual car. This was quite evident - especially when returning to AMS for a couple of sessions; the seat of the pants feeling was much stronger, the FFB and sense of grip-loss being much more defined and nuanced with greater variability in feedback and control throughout. The ability to balance the car on edge through the turns is just much more satisfying and engaging than it is in PC2 for me.

The RallyX in PC2 is very fun and I enjoy that aspect more than I imagined I would. I feel SMS RallyX has exceeded the RallyX in the Dirt series by CodeMasters quite nicely. I would love to see SMS expand on that or even, focus on a Rally / RallyX title in the future as I think there is currently a huge void in that market after the very poor showing that was Dirt4 IMO.

I think PC2 is 85% of the way to being a winning formula in Simulation terms for me but, the last 10-15% is probably the hardest bit to get just right and doing so has taken other titles many years to develop. I hope SMS keeps pushing in that direction and in the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy what PC2 has to offer that the others do not. :)

snakehands
01-11-2017, 14:26
so your saying because I use a pad i have no say in whether the game handles very well?..it doesnt , not on a pad. and as a consumer I should be able to choose whatever view i want and still have the game handle ok.

I give in.

bubbadabutcher
01-11-2017, 14:31
Honestly, how can a pad user in chase view comment with any degree of validity?

you're absolutely right, everyone should spend the money and play the game the way you do or keep their opinions to themselves. :rolleyes:

snakehands
01-11-2017, 14:35
snake hands you're doing it again, you already have an infraction for your elitist comments, so just stop OK.

No problem. Unsubscribed.

AOD_ZedZedski
01-11-2017, 14:53
I drove an NSX for 10 years as a daily driver. It pushed, hard, at the limit with the factory setup, as well it should. Having Joe Blow flying backwards off a freeway on-ramp into 80 mph traffic is very bad business.

That said, one of the great failings of FFB to date is the dead nuts reproduction of what an understeering tire actually feels like at the limit. It is nowhere near the same feeling as a lock-up under breaking, which is what FFB generally gives you in both cases. An additional failing of all the tire models I have tried is the true reproduction of rate of deceleration that an understeering tire will cause, especially in a road car.

But with each passing year the sims are getting better and better.

All that said, I don't even understand the question about "the" handling in project cars. There is no "the" handling. There is "the" car I'm driving and "the" setup I driving with. If you come to this game expecting to get a show room ride that works at the limits at racing pace you're missing the point of the game.

And if you're looking for an arcade experience with your controller with no effort on your part to understand what creates a winning setup, then you have a set of unrealistic expectations.

Further, the set up of your own cockpit is crucial. Proper FOV, FFB, steering and braking sensitivity settings, ergo - they are all critical.

How do you know that part is good? Simple. When sitting IN THE CAR, driving a given course at safety car pace, if the car turns when expected, at the rate expected, with correct steering linearity, and predictable braking feel and distance you know you can now sit down a and START to figure out how THAT car can go quick enough to be competitive in YOUR hands.

If this level of detail is too much, then you need to be prepared to be happy crashing out and posting poor lap times.

It isn't the "game." It's you.

Sorry if this sounds confrontational in any way. The main point is PC2 is amazingly realistic and satisfying with a little personal commitment thrown in.

VR + DD wheel + PCars2 = :encouragement::surprise: lots of joy and fantastic immersion.

Roger Prynne
01-11-2017, 16:02
Our professional drivers opinions.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJs-9li4Gt0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en54VcLA3Uk&t


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Fx_ocBuzY

thevilleky
01-11-2017, 16:42
I don't believe I questioned the validity of taking a critical eye to the physics engine and tire model. If I didn't think the physics engine or tire model were important I'd drive Forza for other reasons other than to remind myself of just how bad physics and tires can be modeled.

I do question the validity of long-winded discussions about p/t models if one hasn't yet taken the basic steps to set up their environment (otherwise known in the data engineering world as a TEST LAB).

I agree to some extent. It's a sim and people should approach it as such. If you want to get the best out of the car you need to learn and do some tuning and testing. I also think, whether right or wrong, a lot of people interpret "handling feel" as the overall accuracy of the physics and tire model. I don't think the semantics will be decided on an internet forum. Some people will say physics, tire model, ffb, handling, and they're all trying to say the same thing. For you, handling means something totally different then physics and tire model.

You made some very valid points in my opinion in your original post, I just disagree with your final premise that people shouldn't be allowed to criticize "the handling." I also don't think you need hours upon hours to consider it. I've played every forza game and loved them. I put in forza 7 demo and was like, oh this is sh!t. Not that the handling was realistic, but it just felt "off."

I've not driven a lot of simulators but AC, PC1, and now PC2. I think PC2 does a pretty good job with handling and physics. I don't necessarily think it takes hours and hours to evaluate. I've been driving irl for 28 years. I know how a car behaves on and beyond the limits, much to the horror of my pocket book with regards to 3 totaled cars and 25 speeding tickets. Like you've stated with your nsx. You know what understeer feels like and the game doesn't interpret that correctly in your opinion in terms of feel in the ffb.

I also think the real drivers for SMS have pretty confidently stated that the handling and physics is pretty spot on. There are those that question their authenticity because they think they might be a corporate shill. Having a degree in marketing and spending 5 years in sales and marketing that is certainly a potential conflict of interest and concern, at the same time I am mostly willing to take them on their word that this is how these race cars feel in real life.

bradleyland
01-11-2017, 16:47
I have driven alot of different cars, powerful, not so powerful, slicks, road tracks, road, track, quite a range of situations, sure I haven't driven everything, but when you'd driven a lot of things in lots of different situations, then you can still have an opinion on how you'd 'expect' something to drive based on experience of other cars.

Now, I've never driven a LaFerrari, I don't think many people will ever get chance too, but it doesn't drive anything like I'd expect it too, and if I brought one and it handled like the PC2 version, I'd get them to take it back!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not in the camp that believes you have to own a car to have an opinion about it. I do think there's value in having driven the real world equivalent though. At least for the purposes of understanding how accurately the game models the real car's behavior.

tennenbaum
02-11-2017, 17:49
I drove an NSX for 10 years as a daily driver. It pushed, hard, at the limit with the factory setup, as well it should. Having Joe Blow flying backwards off a freeway on-ramp into 80 mph traffic is very bad business.

That said, one of the great failings of FFB to date is the dead nuts reproduction of what an understeering tire actually feels like at the limit. It is nowhere near the same feeling as a lock-up under breaking, which is what FFB generally gives you in both cases. An additional failing of all the tire models I have tried is the true reproduction of rate of deceleration that an understeering tire will cause, especially in a road car.

But with each passing year the sims are getting better and better.

All that said, I don't even understand the question about "the" handling in project cars. There is no "the" handling. There is "the" car I'm driving and "the" setup I driving with. If you come to this game expecting to get a show room ride that works at the limits at racing pace you're missing the point of the game.

And if you're looking for an arcade experience with your controller with no effort on your part to understand what creates a winning setup, then you have a set of unrealistic expectations.

Further, the set up of your own cockpit is crucial. Proper FOV, FFB, steering and braking sensitivity settings, ergo - they are all critical.

How do you know that part is good? Simple. When sitting IN THE CAR, driving a given course at safety car pace, if the car turns when expected, at the rate expected, with correct steering linearity, and predictable braking feel and distance you know you can now sit down a and START to figure out how THAT car can go quick enough to be competitive in YOUR hands.

If this level of detail is too much, then you need to be prepared to be happy crashing out and posting poor lap times.

It isn't the "game." It's you.

Sorry if this sounds confrontational in any way. The main point is PC2 is amazingly realistic and satisfying with a little personal commitment thrown in.

My little sim and real life racing experience beside, i think i can say that pCars2 "handling" is doing great in general, and that its physics reflect pretty good on what happens IRL to a car in general. Coming from pCars1 (which was not bad at all) you can see and feel how much SMS improved the underlying physics.

There are some simple "tests" to check out the quality of the physics model:

E.g. drive with 2 tires on the green while keeping the other side tires on the tarmac... Check out to which side the car turns depending on braking or accelerating... What's happening to the front wheels when one gets back on the tarmarc or back to the grass. Can you do "donuts" (given enough horsepowers), can you vary the radius of the donuts?. Do curbs feel realistic while you roll over it at slow speed? Increase the cast angle and you will feel a stronger re-aligning torque at the wheel - if the physic model is right.

This is all stuff that you can test based on the rules of physics without being a good or experienced driver in a sim or IRL.

BUT, DO the cars perform "right" in that very narrow corridor "on the edge" between still finding grip or going sideways...??

Talking about a corridor of an slip angle of 4-8 degrees (depending on tire model). So you have to keep and correct your steering angle within a range of only 2-4 degrees x-times per second at 100+ mph. If you're out of this range you feel either nothing else than loosing the car with little possibility to catch (except you know how to drift), or you may think the car tires are (too) grippy. There is not much in between. IRL as in sims it's pretty difficult to steer a car within such a narrow handling range. I guess that's why it is so dam hard to judge how good the car "handling" of a sim 'racing' game really is. Also - does it handle good in terms of gameplay (as GTS) or in terms of being "realistic" (as pCars2)?

Same with controlled drifting. Good handling in terms of "realistic" handling can be just the opposite of what most players might want.
In reality racing tires have a narrow slip angle to lateral load ratio range, making it difficult to keep the car in that range between still having grip and already sliding. (Some people call it the tire flex feeling.) As a result of it, in sims road cars should be easier to get in this zone of controllable oversteering, while race cars with racing tires tend to surprise you with sudden oversteer that is much harder to catch. What's mostly overseen by novices (starting with the hyper-cars anyway ;-) is, that the road cars with their wider slip angle tire characteristics usually have not enough horsepowers to learn how to "steer" the oversteer with the throttle. In contrary race cars with enough power under the hood have tires with unforgiving slip angle ranges, making it difficult to balance forces during a drift.

The latter is the reason why you wonder how some guys can drift all kind of cars even in pCars1 while it seems impossible to do to you.
Due to my experience, doing drifts at low speeds is much easier in reality that in any sim game. But doing drifts at high speeds in reality is even more difficult as in sims. And less room to fail ;-)

What makes it even trickier: the more the devs push it into the direction "reality" the more "unrealistic" it may occur to a lot of players. Also risking to kill the fun... as in real racing it quickly turns out to be more work than pleasure. So it's a marketing decision as well.

Given the many factors influencing the topic, as said, i like pCars handling a lot. As AOD_ZedZedsky expressed it: VR + Wheel + pCars2 =:victorious::applouse:

(However, I wonder why pCars2 didn't abandon the karts? Their handling is definitely not realistic. In reality karts drive much more aggressive, agile. Even with a common 34 hps non-shifter kart you can make the rear tires spin easily at any time in a speed range between 20 - 80 kmh heading straight or tackling a corner. Also top speed is significantly higher than in pCars. Curbs rattle the wheel almost out of your hands in IRL, braking is easier IRL, etc, etc. Besides, karts without according tracks don't make much sense anyway.)