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sp3ctor
05-11-2017, 16:51
I drove a race last night set for autumn with rain midway through and I was blown away by how good this track looks and drives now. The trees look fantastic, the rain looks great, and the crowds/stuff by the side of the track looked just as I remember them from a couple years back. Fantastic!

rich1e I
05-11-2017, 18:40
I haven't seen one single spectator or tree on any track so far :p

WGIstation6a
05-11-2017, 23:37
I'm impressed that they included the repave that happened since the last game, and added the new runoff on the outside of turn eight. Some of the flag stands are still in the wrong place, but I can live with that. I may be nitpicking a bit with that last one, but I'm pretty partial to that track as I flag there.

Darkdoc
06-11-2017, 01:44
the rain looks great, and the crowds/stuff by the side of the track looked just as I remember them from a couple years back. Fantastic!
Do the crowd wear different clothes in different weather?

Keena
06-11-2017, 01:50
Do the crowd wear different clothes in different weather?

Yes, they all trot back to their cars, unpack their suitcases, and then there's a really cool strip down animation. It's just what I've been looking for in a racing sim ;)

Purg
06-11-2017, 04:53
Love Watkins Glen. PCars1 I found it difficult going up the Esses. The transfer of weight seemed too pronounced causing a big understeer/oversteer problem when going up and cresting the hill. PC2 has a much more planted feeling and cresting the hill feels more like I would expect. I think my love of the track likely stems back to Papyrus sims. Enjoyed the ovals but loved getting out into WG and Sonoma.

I think I recall Ian commenting on how disappointed he was in the modelling of Sonoma. Never seen many races there but love the flow and elevation changes in the track. Even if it isn't modeled to his standard, it's a hoot to flog a virtual car around.

As far as crowds. Knockhill gets me every time in VR. Coming out of the pits right at the end is a camerman. Just puts you in the moment due to how natural he looks and moves.

Leper Messiah
06-11-2017, 07:48
Love Watkins Glen. PCars1 I found it difficult going up the Esses. The transfer of weight seemed too pronounced causing a big understeer/oversteer problem when going up and cresting the hill. PC2 has a much more planted feeling and cresting the hill feels more like I would expect. I think my love of the track likely stems back to Papyrus sims. Enjoyed the ovals but loved getting out into WG and Sonoma.

I think I recall Ian commenting on how disappointed he was in the modelling of Sonoma. Never seen many races there but love the flow and elevation changes in the track. Even if it isn't modeled to his standard, it's a hoot to flog a virtual car around.

As far as crowds. Knockhill gets me every time in VR. Coming out of the pits right at the end is a camerman. Just puts you in the moment due to how natural he looks and moves.

You have great taste in tracks! Three of my faves too!

JyriK
06-11-2017, 11:13
After driving countless races in iRacing's laser-scanned version of Watkins Glen, I can safely say that the PC2-version is one of the most inaccurate around, unfortunately.

balderz002
06-11-2017, 11:30
Yes, they all trot back to their cars, unpack their suitcases, and then there's a really cool strip down animation. It's just what I've been looking for in a racing sim ;)

Good to hear,

PCars1 was totally unplayable for me as the immersion was ruined by the AI crowd not suiting up in inclement weather....

That and not smelling the burgervan by the toilet block near the pits at Snetterton.... I've been there millions of times, so know what it smells like better than what a laser scanned Nurburgring looks like...... Even RFactor gets this right! - Sort it out Ian Bell or I will never ever ever buy another PCars game ever again, untill you release Pcars3!

Love you all!

doneta
06-11-2017, 21:26
After driving countless races in iRacing's laser-scanned version of Watkins Glen, I can safely say that the PC2-version is one of the most inaccurate around, unfortunately.

iRacing's version is on a whole other level of realism. Nothing can compare.

JyriK
06-11-2017, 21:35
iRacing's version is on a whole other level of realism. Nothing can compare.

One can make very accurate tracks with proper elevation and camber changes without laser scanning. Plenty of reference material nowadays.

Keena
06-11-2017, 21:36
iRacing's version is on a whole other level of realism. Nothing can compare.

Not having hammered around Watkins Glen in real life I'm not qualified to comment on it's realism in game. I'm happy to accept your expert opinion though ;)

J4M35_R
06-11-2017, 21:51
iRacing's version is on a whole other level of realism. Nothing can compare.

I think the PC2 version is the best I've driven it certainly feels laserscanned even if it isn't. I love racing at 4 or 5pm, it looks beautiful with the sunset and the lights on trackside.

iracing is still the best game for multiplayer but some of it's tracks were scanned years ago and are probably nothing like today's version of the tracks. And graphically it's looking stale compared to PC2 imo.

WGIstation6a
06-11-2017, 22:05
iRacing's scan is pretty far out of date. While the layout of the track hasn't changed, the track has. It's been repaved, had run off added, and had the curbing changed all around the track. I have been around the Glen, and work there as often as I can find time. The PC2 version is pretty damn close to reality. If anything it's too bumpy, and again, a couple flag stands are in the wrong place.

JyriK
06-11-2017, 22:06
Lol, I really don't understand how anyone could be fooled to think it was laser scanned when it looks like a poor rFactor-mod, and I do not mean lighting. But each to their own I guess.

Darkdoc
11-11-2017, 00:46
there's a really cool strip down animation
It was a serious question actually. They're making a big deal out of how the temperature of the track surface/tyres/brakes are all accurately modelled. If you're going round a wintery ice track in Sweden, nothing would shatter the illusion more than somebody wearing summery shorts. Or if you get caught in the rain at Spa, it just wouldn't look the same if there weren't a load of umbrellas in the grandstand. It really can add to the immersion.

For me, weather (and seasons) is this game's biggest selling point over other games like GT Sport. Might as well do it properly. Especially during something like a 24 hour race, I would like to see the crowd diminish during the night and swell back again towards the last few hours, so that it's not exactly the same thing after 300 laps. Every time I come round the Ford chicane, I'm looking everywhere to see what's different to the last time.

Keena
11-11-2017, 03:44
It was a serious question actually. They're making a big deal out of how the temperature of the track surface/tyres/brakes are all accurately modelled. If you're going round a wintery ice track in Sweden, nothing would shatter the illusion more than somebody wearing summery shorts. Or if you get caught in the rain at Spa, it just wouldn't look the same if there weren't a load of umbrellas in the grandstand. It really can add to the immersion.

For me, weather (and seasons) is this game's biggest selling point over other games like GT Sport. Might as well do it properly. Especially during something like a 24 hour race, I would like to see the crowd diminish during the night and swell back again towards the last few hours, so that it's not exactly the same thing after 300 laps. Every time I come round the Ford chicane, I'm looking everywhere to see what's different to the last time.

Good points well made.

DECATUR PLAYA
11-11-2017, 04:45
I have yet to race at 1 track that feels or looks like Pcars 1. I have had to learn each old track over again because they look and feel so different. The tracks really do feel alive and active. Tracks I raced at 100 times feel foreign now. Watkins is just another that I love now. I always loved it but now its wide and flows beautifully. Could easily be one of my favorites.

ProCorvette73
11-11-2017, 13:58
I was at 6 Hours of Sahlen this summer at the Glen and it looks astonishing compared to the real thing.

John Hargreaves
11-11-2017, 15:11
After driving countless races in iRacing's laser-scanned version of Watkins Glen, I can safely say that the PC2-version is one of the most inaccurate around, unfortunately.

Interesting point, what aspects are inaccurate do you think? How does the iRacing version compare to the real track? I've never visited any tracks in the US, so I'm unlikely to miss the difference, but I'm curious what is so bad about the PC2 version.

Edit: just checked out a few onboard videos, maybe the camber is off in PC2 in places but I honestly can't see much difference. iRacing looks like the kerbs are the wrong colour and there is generally less going on, so I shan't lose too much sleep about it.

JyriK
11-11-2017, 16:54
I think I made my point clear that it is camber and elevation accuracy I'm looking for, not lighting nor kerb colours etc. etc. If you want to believe that repavement and one run-off area has changed it all, be my guest.

J4M35_R
11-11-2017, 18:33
This video looks good to me, much closer to pc2 than iracing imo. iracing needs updating, i haven't even re-installed it on my new computer yet.

https://youtu.be/zLtChQBj4vg

JyriK
11-11-2017, 18:45
This video looks good to me, much closer to pc2 than iracing imo. iracing needs updating, i haven't even re-installed it on my new computer yet.

https://youtu.be/zLtChQBj4vg

Closer to pc2 only if you look outside the the camber and elevation changes. That FOV isn't the best though.

John Hargreaves
11-11-2017, 18:51
I think I made my point clear that it is camber and elevation accuracy I'm looking for, not lighting nor kerb colours etc. etc. If you want to believe that repavement and one run-off area has changed it all, be my guest.

Sorry mate I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was genuinely curious about why the PC2 version was so far off, because I haven't seen the track in real life, but from what you see on videos it is hard to see major differences other than a few bits of camber here and there, and the guys who know Watkins Glen were saying how well the track had been captured. I don't think you need to be defensive it was a genuine question.
I know there are people round here with many laps of the real circuit under their belt, I think it's a good topic for discussion as it may lead to an even better version of the track in the future if there are parts that need improving.
The thread is about how well the Glen has been captured overall in PC2 and that seems a reasonable point to make imo, personally I thought the OP was interesting and well put. I don't think it's about iRacing or any other game.

JyriK
11-11-2017, 19:07
Not defensive, just blunt in English. ;-) I know a modder who is making the track, and because I'm a lazy ass (and a bit busy), I'll quote him below. It highlights some of the problems.

...T1 is wrong. It levels out before the turn instead of downhill all the way past the apex. The Bus Stop curbs are dead flat in PC1/2. You can drive right over them and they don't upset the car at all (NASCAR gets air born over these curbs in RL). The banking/elevations are wrong in outer loop. There is also a strange hump on the way to T10 that is not really there...

J4M35_R
11-11-2017, 19:30
Not defensive, just blunt in English. ;-) I know a modder who is making the track, and because I'm a lazy ass (and a bit busy), I'll quote him below. It highlights some of the problems.

...T1 is wrong. It levels out before the turn instead of downhill all the way past the apex. The Bus Stop curbs are dead flat in PC1/2. You can drive right over them and they don't upset the car at all (NASCAR gets air born over these curbs in RL). The banking/elevations are wrong in outer loop. There is also a strange hump on the way to T10 that is not really there...


l look forward to trying it out when he's finished. It will be amazing to drive such an accurate version of the track ;)

John Hargreaves
11-11-2017, 19:48
Not defensive, just blunt in English. ;-) I know a modder who is making the track, and because I'm a lazy ass (and a bit busy), I'll quote him below. It highlights some of the problems.

...T1 is wrong. It levels out before the turn instead of downhill all the way past the apex. The Bus Stop curbs are dead flat in PC1/2. You can drive right over them and they don't upset the car at all (NASCAR gets air born over these curbs in RL). The banking/elevations are wrong in outer loop. There is also a strange hump on the way to T10 that is not really there...


That's good feedback and lots of useful detail, has your mate raced there? He has some good knowledge of the track. You would have loved it round here (WMD2) over the last couple of years. The feedback from Nic Hamilton and Ben Collins about track details was amazing. Nic gave such good info down to the individual kerbs that you could use and which you had to avoid at Brands Hatch, stuff that went even beyond the laser scan.

I did some stuff on collecting reference for Oulton Park and Donington, just looking for tiny details in the surroundings and feeding it back to the track team. Lots of WMD guys all around the world contributed information like this with their local tracks and it was great to see your own observations being used to make changes and improvements.

I've driven round Oulton Park in an M4 and a single seater, and with it being one of the scanned tracks, literally every detail is exactly correct on the track surface and surroundings, it's uncanny, especially in VR. I think Watkins Glen was one of the very early original tracks from when the project began, before the laser scan photogrammetry days, so although it was updated for PC2, it might still get updated with digital scan data in the future, like they did with Nordschleife.

Anyway, detailed feedback is always welcome, that's why it's a community assisted racing sim

JyriK
11-11-2017, 19:59
British tracks, excluding Silverstone, are top quality in PC2, indeed.

Regarding the Glen, considering the modder's earlier work with LiDAR-data, his version will be top-notch too -- SMS would do well hiring more people like him. Just a thought.

John Hargreaves
11-11-2017, 20:22
You've got me thinking about this one. I just tried a race there in VR and all the camber and elevation changes are much more apparent in VR than in 2-D. Have you tried it in VR? it would be interesting to hear opinions.

J4M35_R
11-11-2017, 20:24
British tracks, excluding Silverstone, are top quality in PC2, indeed.

Regarding the Glen, considering the modder's earlier work with LiDAR-data, his version will be top-notch too -- SMS would do well hiring more people like him. Just a thought.

You say excluding Silverstone, what do you think of it? I think it is a really poor looking version in PC2 mainly because of the white lines at the side of the track looking jaggie, it just doesn't look very nice in sunny conditions . I find it too distracting and switch it off after a lap or two.