PDA

View Full Version : Patch in days or weeks? Please inform



Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 08:43
Hi Guys,

does anybody know, when will the next patch for PC release? It's clear that nobody can talk about the exactly time, but it's difficult to motivate a complete Community in a Forum without any information about the state for the next patch. Please inform your community and gave them some informations about the actual state of the next patch. Some people are very confused and/or angry about the long time without any information. We have a lot of Bugs in Multiplayer and we want to plan our League for the next seasons. But without any informatione it's not possible.

I hope we can get some informations soon :)

King regards,
Shadow26041986

NutieNastya
07-11-2017, 08:52
I'm with you!

Olijke Poffer
07-11-2017, 08:55
SMS does not announce on forehand. Just wait and see when the patch will arrive, in the mean time enjoy Pcars. :D

1nterceptor
07-11-2017, 09:05
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:

Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 09:05
SMS does not announce on forehand. Just wait and see when the patch will arrive, in the mean time enjoy Pcars. :D

Hi Olijke,

that's not important. It's important to inform the community, that they see when will the next steps follow. A lot of people do a bet what will first announce. A new patch for Project Cars 2 or Project Cars 3. At the moment a lot of people wait day for day for a new patch, but nobody has some informations. A lot of people are unhappy, because they don's see any progress.

Kind regards,
Shadow

Exoil
07-11-2017, 09:12
SMS does not announce on forehand. Just wait and see when the patch will arrive, in the mean time enjoy Pcars. :D

As of right now, playing online isn't enjoyable one bit with everyone I race with tired of the small bugs and glitches happening. Tuning setups not saving/loading, lobby setups constantly changing, annoying U-D driver getting in even though it's set to B, quali starts in winter and race in summer, lag when people join and leave, getting penalties for overtaking opponents who spin out, disconnects and so on and so on.

I'm letting my wheel rest a while until the next patch hits. Hopefully I can get my maten who already shelved the game to back then

The Best Beast
07-11-2017, 09:14
AFAIK they are informing us pretty well. You just need to use a search function :P

If you you missed the info let me tell you that there are 150+ improvements and fixes prepared for the next patch :)

Let them do their job and you will be satisfied. Just be patient and report bugs. That's all you can do for now :)

Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 09:20
AFAIK they are informing us pretty well. You just need to use a search function :P

If you you missed the info let me tell you that there are 150+ improvements and fixes prepared for the next patch :)

Let them do their job and you will be satisfied. Just be patient and report bugs. That's all you can do for now :)

Hi Best Beast,

which improvments? Nobody has seen patch notes or improve notes. Have you seen something like this? More informations please. Only with information you can prevent rumors.

SunBro
07-11-2017, 09:24
I was agitated, pissed off etc. but not worried. Now i'm worried. They used to do daily beta updates(sometimes twice a day) But for the first time in a long time, they skipped a beta yesterday. So, two possibilities:

a) they hit a wall while trying to fix a bug, so they are working on that specific bug
b) they've already finished the patch, they're done. So they had a relaxed, smooth day yesterday writing the changelog whatnot and will push the update tonight(Which coincides with Bell's announcement tonight)

I'm inclining on the first :)


Hi Best Beast,

which improvments? Nobody has seen patch notes or improve notes. Have you seen something like this? More informations please. Only with information you can prevent rumors.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56866-NEW-patch-out-(Xbox-One-X-Enhancements-ONLY)&p=1415398&viewfull=1#post1415398

danowat
07-11-2017, 09:27
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:

Project Cars 3 announcement ;)

RoccoTTS
07-11-2017, 09:27
AFAIK they are informing us pretty well. You just need to use a search function :P

If you you missed the info let me tell you that there are 150+ improvements and fixes prepared for the next patch :)

Let them do their job and you will be satisfied. Just be patient and report bugs. That's all you can do for now :)

Agreed, they inform us pretty good. Ian takes part in a lot of discussions and already confirmed many of the fixes that's gonna be part of the next patch. And that's more than most devs do in other games. But apparently it's never enough. Some people will always want more.

The Best Beast
07-11-2017, 09:30
Hi Best Beast,

which improvments? Nobody has seen patch notes or improve notes. Have you seen something like this? More informations please. Only with information you can prevent rumors.

It's an information right from the Mr. Ian Bell.

As you know they can't give more info before releasing the patch.

BigDad
07-11-2017, 09:31
Hi Best Beast,

which improvments? Nobody has seen patch notes or improve notes. Have you seen something like this? More informations please. Only with information you can prevent rumors.

Wow , 3 posts since joining in 2011 . Great participation ,lol
Anyway here's a quote from I Bell from another patch related thread just down from this one , its not much help or doesnt provide much info , just :

Quote Originally Posted by Ian Bell View Post
"It is. There are over one hundred improvements, fixes, user requests etc in there.

Edit, just counted, 129 with more to come."

Post 254 from here
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55676-Any-idea-what-next-patch-will-cover/page13

The Best Beast
07-11-2017, 09:31
Here you go:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56866-NEW-patch-out-(Xbox-One-X-Enhancements-ONLY)&p=1415398&viewfull=1#post1415398

BigDad
07-11-2017, 09:32
Project Cars 3 announcement ;)

Wouldn't that go down well !

The Best Beast
07-11-2017, 09:35
This thread should be merged with the existing one :)

RoccoTTS
07-11-2017, 09:36
For those who don't know how to search for all this info, you can click on the "SMS posts" button above and you will see a list of all posts from the devs. You find a lot of useful info in their.

Olijke Poffer
07-11-2017, 09:40
For those who don't know how to search for all this info, you can click on the "SMS posts" (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/search.php?searchid=10727677) button above and you will see a list of all posts from the devs. You find a lot of useful info in their.

Only the link does not give any results.. :-)

RoccoTTS
07-11-2017, 09:42
Only the link does not give any results.. :-)

Are you sure ? It works for me.

Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 09:43
I see a few people don't understand me. A lot of people wait day for day or hour for hour of the patch#3, but that wat we only know is, that we will have 150 improvements. That's all correct? Maybe the improvements are only in the textures and the game bugs are also in patch#3. Nobody know that at the time or? But how can you talk about 150 improvements if nobody know the improvements. Nobody has seen a roadmap for the patch. Maybe the patch come in January 2018, because the most developer work on Project Cars 3 or on other Projects. A lot of German Sim Racer feel be left alone at the moment. Maybe it's a german characteristic, i don't know, but a lot of people in Germany want a few more informations.

Olijke Poffer
07-11-2017, 09:45
Are you sure ? It works for me.

I'm positive it does not work. :-) it only works when I click the link on the forum front pages.

244679

Raklodder
07-11-2017, 09:47
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:
I will keep my champagne bottle ready.

davidt33
07-11-2017, 09:47
For those who don't know how to search for all this info, you can click on the "SMS posts" (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/search.php?searchid=10727677) button above and you will see a list of all posts from the devs. You find a lot of useful info in their.

Wow. Never saw that button before. Just now checked it out.

RoccoTTS
07-11-2017, 09:49
I'm positive it does not work. :-) it only works when I click the link on the forum front pages.

244679

I removed the link in the OP ;)

weerufus
07-11-2017, 09:57
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:


Are you trolling?.....source?

1nterceptor
07-11-2017, 10:01
Are you trolling?.....source?

I am sorry, my desire:rolleyes:

plaid
07-11-2017, 10:06
I see a few people don't understand me. A lot of people wait day for day or hour for hour of the patch#3, but that wat we only know is, that we will have 150 improvements. That's all correct? Maybe the improvements are only in the textures and the game bugs are also in patch#3. Nobody know that at the time or? But how can you talk about 150 improvements if nobody know the improvements. Nobody has seen a roadmap for the patch. Maybe the patch come in January 2018, because the most developer work on Project Cars 3 or on other Projects. A lot of German Sim Racer feel be left alone at the moment. Maybe it's a german characteristic, i don't know, but a lot of people in Germany want a few more informations.


While Im also german I don't think that that makes a difference.

Anyway, there are specific problems that made me stop to play PCars2 and I don't care about the 150 improvements if they don't change on of these that prevent me from enjoying it.
If I need to test all the stuff and waste hours just to find out nothing about that changed the chance that I simply stop to care about the game at all increases.

Can't be so hard to understand, but if developers prefer to keep their improvements a mystery they need to live with the downsides. For Friends on the fence buying it I can't give them a recommendation if basic patchnotes are too much to ask.

V3nom
07-11-2017, 10:10
I am pretty sure Ian said that this time there will be specific patch notes. And to be honest after the 2.0 patch there were at least two YouTubers with videos over 10 minutes length explaining all the changes in the update, not to mention the numerous pages found just by googling. And yeah I'm gonna be that guy, Google is you're friend! :rolleyes:

Renoldo1990
07-11-2017, 10:14
I'm german too and i don't feel left alone.

Our community races at the moment are running quite well.

Just keep your great work up SMS.

Roger Prynne
07-11-2017, 10:17
Yes there will be Patch 3 notes, just not yet, so please be patient.

eracerhead
07-11-2017, 11:13
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:


Are you trolling?.....source?

I'm going to have to back up this request: please post your source. In my past experience, Ian doesn't tease specific dates like this. So unless you can point to a specific thread, please stop as you're just winding people up.

honespc
07-11-2017, 11:18
I have my focus put on the setup part only, whether they have been able to fix all the mess related to the setup screen; reloading setups, overwrite, etc.

If that again haven't been dealt with in this update, then that will be very telling about what to expect in the future fixes related.

The second in importance would be the weather not being the same to everyone, which is another absolute game breaking one. Expecting this one too to be finally addressed in update 3.

Then the fix of online lobbies, dedis, ui etc would be very much appreciated because the mess is epic in this area too, so we can begin enjoying MP a little bit without going mad anytime we have to set another race while in the same lobby.

I don't want to push devs to rush although I should do it given the status the game has been released. However, I would like the game to begin working as expected as soon as possible after 2 patches already, honestly. Next week?, ok next week?, another month?, ok another month, but please fix this utter mess eventually.

GTsimms
07-11-2017, 11:34
Next week?, ok next week?, another month?, ok another month, but please fix this utter mess eventually.

Honespc, please stop it with the another month and another month. Ian said, it would be soon and he is active with the forum updating on the progress of features and improvements. So, expect it to be soon. Since, the XBOX ONE X has been released.

Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 11:52
Honespc, please stop it with the another month and another month. Ian said, it would be soon and he is active with the forum updating on the progress of features and improvements. So, expect it to be soon. Since, the XBOX ONE X has been released.

Hi Guys,

ok soon sound like an ETA of this or next week for the third patch. So we have a statement for the ETA and it's not in 1 or 2 month. So i think the people could wait. Thanks for the information.

Sankyo
07-11-2017, 11:58
There's no definite timing possible, guys. The "soon" means the testing is looking good but it's not a done deal yet and since you never know what comes up in the last minute SMS is not going to make any promises or predictions on timing. It's not the goal to put it out on a fixed date, but rather when SMS is satisfied with the content and the quality based on their testing. They know people are jumping in anticipation and they wan to give it to you yesterday rather than tomorrow, but it needs to be good so more time is needed right now.

honespc
07-11-2017, 12:04
Like I said before, if it has to be another month then just take another month before releasing it (at the cost of losing 90% of the online community already, though). But please deal once and for all with the setups, weather and online lobby (including dedicated servers) problems in this one. Those are the ones that truly need urgent attention, otherwise the game will be dead (with just us playing it as usual..) in less than two months.

morpwr
07-11-2017, 12:05
While that's great news its also :(.

1nterceptor
07-11-2017, 12:10
Even if You do a lot of improvements,bugs will be discovered again
We will also cooperate
Please release with confidence

Shadow26041986
07-11-2017, 12:17
Hi Remco,

i have understand the statement. The Plan (ETA) of SMS is to publish the patch soon (in 1 or 2 weeks i think). Nobody knows which problems can occur, so it's also possible, that we must wait a longer time.

King regards,
Shadow

SunBro
07-11-2017, 12:18
Hi Guys,

ok soon sound like an ETA of this or next week for the third patch. So we have a statement for the ETA and it's not in 1 or 2 month. So i think the people could wait. Thanks for the information.

Don't get your hopes up about the word "soon". SMS has been saying it for 2 weeks now.

martymoose
07-11-2017, 12:24
Even if You do a lot of testing, bugs will be discovered again
We will also cooperate
Please release with confidence

Was 2 years of early access with a big group testing and people are still talking about issues that really should have been done before release. I doubt all the key issues with setups and and mp will be addressed otherwise it would already have been done. AI is simply not possible to do much if they run a completely different tyre model to the human with so many variables in track and weather conditions these would be near impossible to make competitive in all combo's in all conditions. Much like the content find the ones that aren't too bad and stick with that but don't hold out hoping it will all become good at any point in the future, it wasn't released poorly on purpose to then have some magic patch to have a joke at our expense.

So far its playing out like groundhog day from PC1, does anyone really expect things to change much here? Id like to be wrong but so far all pre release speak and release actuality has been kind of as expected, its better then PC1 but still well short of how it was talked up, with some fairly big issues that amazingly made the release and first patches.

V3nom
07-11-2017, 12:30
Why wouldn't SMS just release updates like every 2-3 weeks. In this way the community would be much happier and the game would become less frustrating at a steady and constant rate.
Is it because new updates = new bugs? ^^

danowat
07-11-2017, 12:38
Why wouldn't SMS just release updates like every 2-3 weeks. In this way the community would be much happier and the game would become less frustrating at a steady and constant rate.
Is it because new updates = new bugs? ^^

That's not how game development works.

V3nom
07-11-2017, 12:42
That's not how game development works.

That's not how a helpful answer looks like.

Roger Prynne
07-11-2017, 12:44
To me it's obvious that some of you guys don't read the forums, otherwise you would realize why things are done the way they are.

V3nom
07-11-2017, 12:48
Well yeah its pretty obvious, you are right. I have 19 posts, you do not expect that I read every single post that is available on this forum when I just joined not even one week ago. Nevertheless I asked if it had something to do with new updates creating new bugs.
In the end it dosn't even matter, the update is coming out when it's coming out.

martymoose
07-11-2017, 12:49
To me it's obvious that some of you guys don't read the forums, otherwise you would realize why things are done the way they are.

Is there an explanation somewhere saying why it was released with some pretty big obvious bugs?

GenBrien
07-11-2017, 12:56
Don't get your hopes up about the word "soon". SMS has been saying it for 2 weeks now.

there's a saying in the Flight Simulators community(DCS/FSX/IL2/Falcon/etc....) when people ask when it'll be done
it'll be ready in 2 weeks

it'll be ready when it'll be ready
stop asking :)

Roger Prynne
07-11-2017, 13:01
Well yeah its pretty obvious, you are right. I have 19 posts, you do not expect that I read every single post that is available on this forum when I just joined not even one week ago. Nevertheless I asked if it had something to do with new updates creating new bugs.
In the end it dosn't even matter, the update is coming out when it's coming out.
I said "some of you guys" and wasn't pointing the finger at anyone specific.


Is there an explanation somewhere saying why it was released with some pretty big obvious bugs?
Yes there is as it happens.

Vincen
07-11-2017, 13:21
I'm dev and I understand make new features or content takes time, but you can release an update every week with only bug fixes solved.. sometimes the game is unplayable because the bugs :(

SunBro
07-11-2017, 13:24
No patch today. Just another internal beta update.

RomKnight
07-11-2017, 13:27
For those that not participate at WMD... I thing you might be underestimating how complex a sim is, especially one that it's not just about physics of the car or having to worry just about slick tyres...

ctzn
07-11-2017, 13:29
When it's ready. :)

Kitt
07-11-2017, 15:04
Project Cars 3 announcement ;)

....and the first DLC pack for Pcars 2

MaXyM
07-11-2017, 15:21
For those that not participate at WMD... I thing you might be underestimating how complex a sim is, especially one that it's not just about physics of the car or having to worry just about slick tyres...

I suppose all have idea about simulation complexity.
However most critical bugs comes from UI and settings (setups, config, ds, online sync). Nothing simulation related. So I would like to ask you to stop this obfuscation.

Gav88888
07-11-2017, 15:26
1 week I estimate as testing has been closed on the latest list of bugs, so that usually means a week to go.

TerminatorGR
07-11-2017, 15:48
1 week I estimate as testing has been closed on the latest list of bugs, so that usually means a week to go.Where can you see this?

jimortality
07-11-2017, 15:52
I'm sure it was said somewhere that the patches would not be the same frequency as pcars 1 (Every month) but they would be more substantial. it's been a month since patch 2 so [I]'m thinking another 2-3 weeks

saxohare
07-11-2017, 16:06
For those that not participate at WMD... I thing you might be underestimating how complex a sim is, especially one that it's not just about physics of the car or having to worry just about slick tyres...


release a game when it's finished, and hire better WMD participants.

Please release the fix asap

jimortality
07-11-2017, 16:07
release a game when it's finished, and hire better WMD participants.

Please release the fix asap

Games are never finished, they're an ongoing development

eracerhead
07-11-2017, 16:08
Please release the fix asap

Why would they do otherwise...?

MaXyM
07-11-2017, 16:19
Games are never finished, they're an ongoing development

Actually there are 2 models.
1. ongoing development, like iRacing, rf2, R3E
2. sequels like DIRT franchise or pCars

But in both of them a customer has right to make assumption, that subsequent releases are rather finished, tested, stable.
Next releases might bring new features, or extend actual ones, or polish them. Treating the customer to be beta-tester is unjustified until he didn't consciously has opted-in to be one.

jimortality
07-11-2017, 16:21
Actually there are 2 models.
1. ongoing development, like iRacing, rf2, R3E
2. sequels like DIRT franchise or pCars

But in both of them a customer has right to make assumption, that subsequent releases are rather finished, tested, stable.
Next releases might bring new features, or extend actual ones, or polish them. Treating the customer to be beta-tester is unjustified until he didn't consciously has opted-in to be one.

Yes and this argument keeps coming round. We can't do anything about it, I mean how do you know when it's finished? what If it takes another 3 or 4 years, how long are you prepared to wait?

Konan
07-11-2017, 16:25
and hire better WMD participants.

so where were you at the sign-up?

MaXyM
07-11-2017, 16:42
Yes and this argument keeps coming round. We can't do anything about it, I mean how do you know when it's finished? what If it takes another 3 or 4 years, how long are you prepared to wait?

I don't care about when next release will be finished. I car about quality of released one. IMO it is unacceptable to buy a game and then wait half a year to get it stable. Actually to pay for being a beta-tester.
Recently it's happening in gaming industry. But still, it's wrong, and should be stated as rule or excuse. Actually it should be punished. And I believe it will change sooner or later. Gaming Market just need some more time for that.


so where were you at the sign-up?

You mean to pay for being WMD member (aka work for SMS) and then get half-something? Or be banned for honesty?
I used to be one. No more. I can imagine there are people who can enjoy this trip. But it's not fair and serious in some aspects. This relationship is just not well-balanced.

Aldo Zampatti
07-11-2017, 16:47
I don't care about when next release will be finished. I car about quality of released one. IMO it is unacceptable to buy a game and then wait half a year to get it stable. Actually to pay for being a beta-tester.
Recently it's happening in gaming industry. But still, it's wrong, and should be stated as rule or excuse. Actually it should be punished. And I believe it will change sooner or later. Gaming Market just need some more time for that.



You mean to pay for being WMD member (aka SMS worker) and then get half-something? Or be banned for honesty?
Sorry, I used to be one. No more.

Hey MaXyM, honestly please, stop the consistent complaining. Your message was received, multiple times. We have a rule of an official warning for multiple and reiterate complaints, and we'll apply that next. I understand you might be frustrated but stop it for now please.

Again, we heard you. SMS is working on it. Further discussion is pointless.

MaXyM
07-11-2017, 16:50
@aldo I'm not complaining at all. Never said a word about pC2, release date etc. Rather being a part of discussion about general things in gaming market.
Really, I'm OK with with pC2 because I consciously decided to buy it, knowing its current state.

BTW why don't you stop others repeatedly expressing their opinions (I'm answering to)?

Aldo Zampatti
07-11-2017, 16:55
BTW why don't you stop others repeatedly expressing their opinions (I'm answering to)?

We do, we might miss someone but we definitely do. Sometimes public, sometimes private, somtimes we do not even ask and Flag/Warn/Ban

Keena
07-11-2017, 16:55
Hey MaXyM, honestly please, stop the consistent complaining. Your message was received, multiple times. We have a rule of an official warning for multiple and reiterate complaints, and we'll apply that next. I understand you might be frustrated but stop it for now please.

Again, we heard you. SMS is working on it. Further discussion is pointless.

Completely agree. If you have a point to make, make it clearly and concisely stating precisely what you perceive the problem to be, supplying facts and data where appropriate, while avoiding opinion and subjective statements where possible. If you see a solution then maybe offer that as well.

In all cases I'm on a constant self watch to avoid "getting personal". This way everyone can focus on the "problem", rather than lots of induhvidual reactions to the problem.

Courtesy goes a long way. Self regulation even in an un-policed realm like the internet would go a long way to making the day a little brighter.

This way we can all own and solve the issues, and avoid an adversarial climate which is less productive :)

rosko
07-11-2017, 17:38
Come on guys just wait for it. imo a monthly cycle is likely, we don't want anything rushed out then we will just see a moaning thread about why the patch was pushed out b4 it was ready. I agree the game was put out too early but maybe politics that made it a bit more difficult for SMS to decide.

The Best Beast
07-11-2017, 18:08
There will be always complaining about this and that. I am really grateful for game being released and I really do enjoy when I play it. Game is going to be better and better while we wait for patches. It's amazing to see how pCARS 2 is making a progress :)

Sankyo
07-11-2017, 19:02
Or be banned for honesty?

Oh please stop bringing up this up again, it's been discussed and disproved so many times already that you're losing all credibility by typing this.

Kebabfelix
07-11-2017, 19:30
There is a significant announcement from Mr. Ian tonight:rolleyes:

Well what the **** is it? Been waiting all night now.

Roger Prynne
07-11-2017, 19:38
It's 4:30 am in Singapore though.

CoproManiac
07-11-2017, 19:41
It's 4:30 am in Singapore though.

Haha, but it's !!Wednesday!! 4:30 ;)

SunBro
07-11-2017, 19:43
It's 4:30 am in Singapore though.

4:30 am "tomorrow for us". The mention of the big announcement was made this morning uk time, implying 7 November 2017. Not 8th of november as it is right now in singapore. In order for the announcement theory to carry some weight, it should be made in the next 6 hours.

Roger Prynne
07-11-2017, 19:45
Now we are arguing/discussing about time zones.... lol

TerminatorGR
07-11-2017, 19:48
4:30 am "tomorrow for us". The mention of the big announcement was made this morning uk time, implying 7 November 2017. Not 8th of november as it is right now in singapore. In order for the announcement theory to carry some weight, it should be made in the next 6 hours.There is no announcement, the guy was trolling, he admitted it later.

SunBro
07-11-2017, 20:27
There is no announcement, the guy was trolling, he admitted it later.


In order for the announcement theory to carry some weight

I began following Ian Bell on every online platform available for this past week, i didn't see a sign of it but who knows, information could've leaked from his inner circle. Didn't see the troll admitting his wrong doing. I'll move the f*** on now.

taz1004
07-11-2017, 20:33
Oh please stop bringing up this up again, it's been discussed and disproved so many times already that you're losing all credibility by typing this.

Only people losing credibility here is SMS. Have you checked the Steam reviews lately? Not recommended increasing exponentially every day because this is a strange game that you find more and more unplayable bugs as you play more.

Konan
07-11-2017, 20:40
Only people losing credibility here is SMS. Have you checked the Steam reviews lately? Not recommended increasing exponentially every day because this is a strange game that you find more and more unplayable bugs as you play more.

with all due respect...don't step into something you know nothing about...this is about his involvement in WMD1...

Olijke Poffer
07-11-2017, 21:33
Every minute you spend on posting in this topic (including me, lol) complaining about the time it takes before the update arives, (me not included) you cannot spend on having fun with PC2. And those whom telling they can’t have fun before the bug fix update I don’t believe..sorry..

Kriig
07-11-2017, 21:57
Every minute you spend on posting in this topic (including me, lol) complaining about the time it takes before the update arives, (me not included) you cannot spend on having fun with PC2. And those whom telling they can’t have fun before the bug fix update I don’t believe..sorry..

Agree!

Exoil
07-11-2017, 22:11
Every minute you spend on posting in this topic (including me, lol) complaining about the time it takes before the update arives, (me not included) you cannot spend on having fun with PC2. And those whom telling they can’t have fun before the bug fix update I don’t believe..sorry..

As I already stated (but the comment probably got deleted since I can't find it), in my group of 13 friends (me included) 6 stopped playing more than a week ago, me and 2 more this weekend because of all the small annoying bugs (I already mentioned them too) affecting multiplayer. 9 guys out of 13 have shelved the game waiting for the patch so that we all can enjoy this gem of a game (which it is, when everything works) together.

If you don't want to believe me then so be it, I can't really say I care mate

Konan
07-11-2017, 22:26
As I already stated (but the comment probably got deleted since I can't find it), in my group of 13 friends (me included) 6 stopped playing more than a week ago, me and 2 more this weekend because of all the small annoying bugs (I already mentioned them too) affecting multiplayer. 9 guys out of 13 have shelved the game waiting for the patch so that we all can enjoy this gem of a game (which it is, when everything works) together.

If you don't want to believe me then so be it, I can't really say I care mate

Post #6 maybe?

satco1066
07-11-2017, 22:26
select your profile, and you'll find all your posts by clicking on "find latest posts".
If you find that "probably deleted " post you refer to , then please apologise for your insinuation.

binarywarrior
07-11-2017, 22:35
Better off leaving a review in steam (as I have just done), you had all the answers your gonna get here. Vote with your wallet don't pre order again and buy the games on sale. Fool me once, Fool me twice 3rd time no way!

Konan
07-11-2017, 22:43
you had all the answers your gonna get here.

Really?

morpwr
07-11-2017, 22:44
I remember the days on console you didn't get updates (yeah that long ago) and if you did it was like Christmas. How many of us remember those days when you just bought a game and you got what you got.

GenBrien
07-11-2017, 22:45
I remember the days on console you didn't get updates (yeah that long ago) and if you did it was like Christmas. How many of us remember those days when you just bought a game and you got what you got.

games where WAYYYYYYYYYYY less complex than they are today though

morpwr
07-11-2017, 22:48
games where WAYYYYYYYYYYY less complex than they are today though

Obviously. I still have some of the old consoles and bring them out once in a while. I cant even play them anymore they are so basic compared to today.

binarywarrior
07-11-2017, 22:48
Really?

When is the patch released? What exactly in the list?

Thanks ;)

Konan
07-11-2017, 22:55
When is the patch released? What exactly in the list?

Thanks ;)

Tell you what...why don't us mods just go about our normal bussiness and quit spending every moment of our free time wandering on various forums trying to help people out...
And the devs just stick to what they're paid for...
And the other (helpful) members mind to their own stuff...
See how many answers you will get...

Exoil
07-11-2017, 23:26
Post #6 maybe?

No, the comments about my friends stopping playing was in Keenas "appreciation" thread with Ojilke as one of the quotees (is that a word?) but I guess it was deemed negative because of that part or just got deleted in the mayhem that was that thread :)


select your profile, and you'll find all your posts by clicking on "find latest posts".
If you find that "probably deleted " post you refer to , then please apologise for your insinuation.

Already did, it's gone, now what? Want me to apologise for something else?

Konan
07-11-2017, 23:36
No, the comments about my friends stopping playing was in Keenas "appreciation" thread with Ojilke as one of the quotees (is that a word?) but I guess it was deemed negative because of that part or just got deleted in the mayhem that was that thread :)

Ah yes i found it...that post got deleted because it didn't belong in that thread (along with all the other negative posts)...not saying yours was negative but because you quoted parts of deleted posts it would have been out of context...
Anyway post #6 in this thread says almost the same so point made i'd say...:cool:

Exoil
07-11-2017, 23:42
Ah yes i found it...that post got deleted because it didn't belong in that thread (along with all the other negative posts)...not saying yours was negative but because you quoted parts of deleted posts it would have been out of context...
Anyway post #6 in this thread says almost the same so point made i'd say...:cool:

Cool mate, I was just trying to prove that I wasn't pulling the shelving of the game out of my rear and had posten about it before. Me and my mates love the sessions that works as intended, but unfortunately not a lot of them do.

Olijke Poffer
08-11-2017, 06:00
As I already stated (but the comment probably got deleted since I can't find it), in my group of 13 friends (me included) 6 stopped playing more than a week ago, me and 2 more this weekend because of all the small annoying bugs (I already mentioned them too) affecting multiplayer. 9 guys out of 13 have shelved the game waiting for the patch so that we all can enjoy this gem of a game (which it is, when everything works) together.

If you don't want to believe me then so be it, I can't really say I care mate

I do believe you but some of the players shouting that it is unplayable and that is simply not the case. Yes there are annoying bugs involved and on the PS4 the AA is not as it should be but unplayable? no way..at least not within my standards.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 07:23
Sorry, but saying that there are more than 150 improvements in the next patch, is not enough information for me (and posiblyothers) to feel that we are well informed.

I agree that SMS seem to have a better contact with fans than others, but not even close to enough.

In my opinion, Pcars issues sound a lot worse than they may be, simply because they are being repeated and people (me included) keep posting about the same things over and over again, in hopes that either somebody from SMS will listen, or confirm that it is being worked on.

I've read that AI has been seriously improved for the next patch, so I am totally ok with bad AI now. That is until the patch comes out. I am sure that others would feel the same with other issues. If we know something is being worked on, or already has been fixed in the next patch, there's nothing to complain about

There are many ways SMS could keep us updated or even let us follow the process and progress of their work. If we had a post for each issue, where SMS could update us on the progress, marked issues resolved, and actually did inform us, i am sure we'd all be more patient.

It's ugly business to publicly show and accept issues and problems, but it would be really good fan support and transparent problem solving

Konan
08-11-2017, 07:28
Seeing SMS isn't obligated to share anything and seeing they do so regardless ...i don't understand why some people still claim it's not enough...

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 07:36
Seeing SMS isn't obligated to share anything and seeing they do so regardless ...i don't understand why some people still claim it's not enough...

Because it's not enough...
Yeah they could say nothing at all, and it would be slightly worse, or they could inform a lot more and it would be a lot better.

Konan
08-11-2017, 07:39
That's just it...it'll never be enough for some...so where does it end?

Exoil
08-11-2017, 07:45
That's just it...it'll never be enough for some...so where does it end?

That must've been something Ian and the rest anticipated when they chose to have this open communication with the community and reckoned the upside of it would be greater than the downside.

"Give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand"

Konan
08-11-2017, 07:49
Probably...and that is also the reason they've drawn a line as to how much they will give IMHO...

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 07:49
When the people who don't think it's enough, are way less than the people who are happy :)

I don't know - when it all boils down, we're the customers, and SMS are the seller. It's not something we should be figuring out. We should simply let them know what we think about what they do.
Sellers react to the way customers behave, or give feedback, and adjust accordingly. That's how markets work.

All us posting here on the forum, are supplying feedback for SMS to evaluate. We're the easy customers to understand compared to the ones who don't say anything! Sellers adjust their product and/or services according to the information they have as they please, in order to maximize sales and profit. It's their job to pick the right decisions and maybe they have already. We're just letting them know that we don't feel so.

Eventually, their choices will reflect on people buying and engaging in the game in the future.

Sankyo
08-11-2017, 07:52
Because it's not enough...
Yeah they could say nothing at all, and it would be slightly worse, or they could inform a lot more and it would be a lot better.

Nope. If they 'inform a lot more' there'll be complaints 'why isn't xxxxx fixed in the patch, I reported it at least five times??!!!?!?!!!1!'.

The amount of complaints is constant, no matter what is communicated on the forum.
I hereby declare that Remco's Second Law of Forum Dynamics...

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 08:05
Nope. If they 'inform a lot more' there'll be complaints 'why isn't xxxxx fixed in the patch, I reported it at least five times??!!!?!?!!!1!'.

The amount of complaints is constant, no matter what is communicated on the forum.
I hereby declare that Remco's Second Law of Forum Dynamics...

There are two things in that - the part about reporting 1 issue 5 times, would not happen because it would make no sense to post about the same thing 5 times in the same place (a thread, post etc.). It is happening now, in hopes that somebody or hopefully the right person notices.

The reason why it was not fixed in that patch, should exactly be the kind of information posted in these threads/posts to keep people informed. I am sure that there is a proper reason something would not be fixed. Either because it can't be fixed, priority was somewhere else, it was less practical to fix right now, turned out to be more complicated or even forgot! Personally, i would think admitting to mistakes is a huge strength in companies!

Chevi
08-11-2017, 08:12
That must've been something Ian and the rest anticipated when they chose to have this open communication with the community and reckoned the upside of it would be greater than the downside.

"Give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand"

The "whole hand" is the game we bought, and for which we payed "the whole price". The (healthy) fingers we get are replacements for the sick fingers of the "whole hand". Deal?

Sankyo
08-11-2017, 08:13
I think that there should be some trust in the developers that they're listening all the time and trying to fix everything possible given time and resource limitations, and that they're setting the right priorities for each patch.

ZulfoDK
08-11-2017, 08:22
I think that there should be some trust in the developers that they're listening all the time and trying to fix everything possible given time and resource limitations, and that they're setting the right priorities for each patch.

Well, I'm kinda close to the developers at the company where I work, and sometimes the developers are blinded by what THEY think is important, and not what their customers think is most important :p

Problem is with a game, there are thousands of customers with each his opinion to what is important.

But I DO think that SMS would benefit from a sticky post with known major bugs, and a simple tracking of when or in what patch it might be solved - in that way you would limit every single user that joins the forum in asking when the Online Lobbies will be fixed :cool:

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 08:24
I think that there should be some trust in the developers that they're listening all the time and trying to fix everything possible given time and resource limitations, and that they're setting the right priorities for each patch.

I do, I just don't know if the issues I am facing, are part of those priorities (high or low), so I keep posting about them. Once I get confirmation about them being there (as was the case with the AI) I don't see a reason for complaining about them anymore, until the fix is available. Then I can complain again if the fix was not good enough.

Sankyo
08-11-2017, 08:26
I do, I just don't know if the issues I am facing, are part of those priorities (high or low), so I keep posting about them. Once I get confirmation about them being there (as was the case with the AI) I don't see a reason for complaining about them anymore, until the fix is available. Then I can complain again if the fix was not good enough.

Remco's Second Law confirmed :)

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 08:34
Remco's Second Law confirmed :)
No - this is actually Remco's Second Law challenged...
It's not even a complaint, we're discussing here

jimortality
08-11-2017, 08:47
I do, I just don't know if the issues I am facing, are part of those priorities (high or low), so I keep posting about them. Once I get confirmation about them being there (as was the case with the AI) I don't see a reason for complaining about them anymore, until the fix is available. Then I can complain again if the fix was not good enough.

Some people will complain whatever.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 08:50
@jimortality i agree! And nothing will change that no matter how hard SMS tries
It's no reason for giving up on trying to decrease the amount of complaints though

jimortality
08-11-2017, 08:52
@jimortality i agree! And nothing will change that no matter how hard SMS tries
It's no reason for giving up on trying to decrease the amount of complaints though

Decrease? surely by keep posting, you're only increasing. There's nothing worse than clicking on new posts and finding new threads with the same complaints in.

MaXyM
08-11-2017, 08:56
No.. by keeping posting nothing is increasing because of second Remco's law.
Point is that giving feedback mentioned by @RookieRaceline you cannot change number of complaints (due to Remco's laws) but you can satisfy some customers and clarify communication between the company and customers who are giving (valuable I believe) feedback. Isn't it win-win?

jimortality
08-11-2017, 08:58
No.. by keeping posting nothing is increasing because of second Remco's law.

Where do I find said law?

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 09:02
We need to define what a complaint is guys...
I've done my fair bit of complaining so i am also to be blamed, but at the moment i think we're discussing. The only complaints i read, are about people complaining. (and NO! that is not a complaint!)

MaXyM
08-11-2017, 09:03
Where do I find said law?

Post #105 of this thread

jimortality
08-11-2017, 09:08
Nope. If they 'inform a lot more' there'll be complaints 'why isn't xxxxx fixed in the patch, I reported it at least five times??!!!?!?!!!1!'.

The amount of complaints is constant, no matter what is communicated on the forum.
I hereby declare that Remco's Second Law of Forum Dynamics...

Is what?

jimortality
08-11-2017, 09:14
We need to define what a complaint is guys...
I've done my fair bit of complaining so i am also to be blamed, but at the moment i think we're discussing. The only complaints i read, are about people complaining. (and NO! that is not a complaint!)

I think I should be allowed to complain about people complaining as I said above, I click on new post and it's just the same complaints but just in new threads. There should be something in the software that can tell If you complain about something more than once, then it can stop you posting lol

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 09:21
I think I should be allowed to complain about people complaining as I said above, I click on new post and it's just the same complaints but just in new threads. There should be something in the software that can tell If you complain about something more than once, then it can stop you posting lol

It's more or less what we're discussing here.
If SMS would inform better, there would be no reason why people should mention an issue more than once.
If there was one post for each issue, people could look it up, chip in with their experiences (complaints) and follow the progress of the fix (be it slow, fast or urgent). At the moment, people keep mentioning the same issues (complaints) in hopes that somebody at SMS hears them. SMS might have already heard them and be working on a fix, but we still complain because we only know that the next patch has 150 improvements. (this is not a complaint, just an argument btw)

pablito
08-11-2017, 09:32
I miss old good '90 ... no patches, no dlc, no fixes, no microtrasaction, no complaining...you bought game and just play.
Now...devs are greedy or lazy or just pissed by ppl who are impatient and only want more and more and dont play games but only looking for reason to complain or to be just first with complain because they feel so important when they can tell others they doing something wrong and everybody knows everything over the internet.

Dont waste your time on complains and just go play...if you dont like what you get just dont play nobody force you to play.

Peoples these days are just awful.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 09:43
I miss old good '90 ... no patches, no dlc, no fixes, no microtrasaction, no complaining...you bought game and just play.
Now...devs are greedy or lazy or just pissed by ppl who are impatient and only want more and more and dont play games but only looking for reason to complain or to be just first with complain because they feel so important when they can tell others they doing something wrong and everybody knows everything over the internet.

Dont waste your time on complains and just go play...if you dont like what you get just dont play nobody force you to play.

Peoples these days are just awful.

Now.... THAT'S a complaint! It is out of topic and doesn't come with any input other than to stop playing the game if you don't like it.
I agree with you, but it doesn't really do much in this discussion. We're actually discussing ways to improve the way complaints/issues are being handled, in order to avoid people doing what you suggest (stop playing the game).

pablito
08-11-2017, 09:53
Nothing in this thread do something what can help.

Im not camplain its just a fact...but you can call it complain about "complainers" if you want...so i feel im in right place ;)

CoproManiac
08-11-2017, 09:58
Please, stop complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining about people who are complaining.

Fuzzy
08-11-2017, 09:58
I miss old good '90 ... no patches, no dlc, no fixes, no microtrasaction, no complaining...you bought game and just play.
Now...devs are greedy or lazy or just pissed by ppl who are impatient and only want more and more and dont play games but only looking for reason to complain or to be just first with complain because they feel so important when they can tell others they doing something wrong and everybody knows everything over the internet.

Dont waste your time on complains and just go play...if you dont like what you get just dont play nobody force you to play.

Peoples these days are just awful.

No internet, no forums, no complaints. Problem solved! Added bonus: No twitter, so no Donald Trump tweets. Brilliant. Just unplug the internet.

Raklodder
08-11-2017, 10:00
Project Cars 3 announcement ;)
Don't get me started ...

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 10:05
I miss old good '90 ... no patches, no dlc, no fixes, no microtrasaction, no complaining...you bought game and just play.

Ah yes, the good ol' 90's. Where games were much cheaper, didn't need patches because they were bugfree from day one, had more content, better game design and gameplay was much more interesting... :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

The main difference is that back in those days you were stuck with an issue you experienced because nobody fixed it.


Now...devs are greedy or lazy or just pissed by ppl who are impatient and only want more and more and dont play games but only looking for reason to complain or to be just first with complain because they feel so important when they can tell others they doing something wrong and everybody knows everything over the internet.

Before brushing off today's developers as incompetent you should ask yourself the question what's more plausible:

Have all game developers suddenly become greedy, lazy and incompetent or are part of a conspiracy to get the most money out of their customers with the least possible effort?
OR
Has software development become much more difficult due to exponentially higher complexity, tighter deadlines and bigger financial risks (increased development costs at basically constant retail prices)?

MaXyM
08-11-2017, 10:12
@Bealdor, actually both mentioned by you options are true. But I would'n say 'devs are greedy'. It's business decision powered by the fact, that globalization and digital distribution effectively allows transferring financial risks on customers. Since it's possible, I'm not surprised at all, it is being exploited by business owners.

Olijke Poffer
08-11-2017, 10:15
I miss the end 70's and early 80's. We had to type our games in before we could play.. weeks in a row to type over the game code (from book to screen) finally ready to start the game and then error after error. Typo's of course... :-) those where the day's... Or somewhat later on the Commodore 64 with a tape player. it took an hour to load a game.. :-) haha... I'm getting old.....

christophe91
08-11-2017, 10:20
We are your clents and we are entitled to have information on the progress of work. If I buy a product that does not work properly I go to the service after sale. And I have information about repairs to do. Here none of this. I know you're doing everything you can but a little bit of feedback on the bugs would be really good.
Google translate

jimortality
08-11-2017, 10:21
and while we're complaining about people complaining, why don't people at least use the search function? they can check If their complaint has been reported. You talk about devs being lazy!!!!! you people are lazy as ******

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 10:22
Some feedback....
All bugs that can be fixed will be fixed as soon as possible.

Siberian Tiger
08-11-2017, 10:22
No Information? Then please try to read better... There is plenty of Information.
And if an Information doesn't exist, then it can't be shared... (For Example Release Date of next Patch)

jimortality
08-11-2017, 10:23
We are your clents and we are entitled to have information on the progress of work. If I buy a product that does not work properly I go to the service after sale. And I have information about repairs to do. Here none of this. I know you're doing everything you can but a little bit of feedback on the bugs would be really good.
Google translate

Today's society ENTITLED no you're not entitled

pablito
08-11-2017, 10:23
Ah yes, the good ol' 90's. Where games were much cheaper, didn't need patches because they were bugfree from day one, had more content, better game design and gameplay was much more interesting... :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

The main difference is that back in those days you were stuck with an issue you experienced because nobody fixed it.



Before brushing off today's developers as incompetent you should ask yourself the question what's more plausible:

Have all game developers suddenly become greedy, lazy and incompetent or are part of a conspiracy to get the most money out of their customers with the least possible effort?
OR
Has software development become much more difficult due to exponentially higher complexity, tighter deadlines and bigger financial risks (increased development costs at basically constant retail prices)?

Prolly you dont understand what i said.

I dont said "every" devs are greedy, lazy, incompetent etc...but there is a lot of them.
I dont said SMS is greedy, lazy or incompetent.

Im buying games because i want, i can and because its my hobby.

Im playing games like they are or if I dont like it i dont play...I dont cry over internet about broken things or just asking if there is method to fix it or not.
If devs fix some broken things ok if not ok i need to live with that.
When im sitting to play and use my precious time to spend on game im doing it with pleasure, im not slave who is forced to play that broken piece of #$%^...but it looks like ppl are forced by uknown force to do it.
Ofcourse when you spend your hard earned money you want perfection etc...but thats immpossible.

TBH i was very sceptical to buy PC2 after what i read about PC1...but i bought elite version or how its called to just check myself and after spend circa 20h of testing different settings and wheel configuration i dont regret any penny i spend on it...and tbh i have more issues with games like Assetto Corsa then PC2.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 10:28
Some feedback....
All bugs that can be fixed will be fixed as soon as possible.
LOL - this is gold!
More or less a pacifyier isn't it?
I just want a list of Bugs that are known and aknowledgedby SMS

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 10:30
No Information? Then please try to read better... There is plenty of Information.
And if an Information doesn't exist, then it can't be shared... (For Example Release Date of next Patch)

As far as i can understand, we were discussing better ways of passing this information on to us.
I am sure that much information that SMS feels they have put into this forum, just gets covered up by other posts, and never sees the light

Make a category in this forum, with a post for each issue/bug, and keep it updated with the progress being done or planned on being done.

jimortality
08-11-2017, 10:31
As far as i can understand, we were discussing better ways of passing this information on to us.
I am sure that much information that SMS feels they have put into this forum, just gets covered up by other posts, and never sees the light

Make a category in this forum, with a post for each issue/bug, and keep it updated with the progress being done or planned on being done.

I don't want/need any information as I have a bug free version

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 10:32
@Bealdor, actually both mentioned by you options are true. But I would'n say 'devs are greedy'.

So you think they're "just" lazy and incompetent?


But I would'n say 'devs are greedy'. It's business decision powered by the fact, that globalization and digital distribution effectively allows transferring financial risks on customers. Since it's possible, I'm not surprised at all, it is being exploited by business owners.

I agree that it's a business decision (what isn't?). But it's driven by the fact that you have to release your game in a specific timeframe because of your budget.
You can't delay a release infinitely until it's perfect because you don't get the funds to do it. There's only a few scenarios that can happen and none of them are perfect:

1. Release with bugs and hope that you'll get the worst ones fixed comparatively quickly (that's what almost everyone does)
2. Sell your game at a higher price and hope that you can refinance your increased expenses
3. Delay the release for another 6-12 months, be proud that your game is 99% bug free, be sad because you just went bankrupt.

Sometimes I got the impression that players think developers don't know or care that bugs in a game damage their reputation.
As if they wouldn't care about the quality of their game they put years of work and passion into...

Biddrace
08-11-2017, 10:38
So you think they're "just" lazy and incompetent?



I agree that it's a business decision (what isn't?). But it's driven by the fact that you have to release your game in a specific timeframe because of your budget.
You can't delay a release infinitely until it's perfect because you don't get the funds to do it. There's only a few scenarios that can happen and none of them are perfect:

1. Release with bugs and hope that you'll get the worst ones fixed comparatively quickly (that's what almost everyone does)
2. Sell your game at a higher price and hope that you can refinance your increased expenses
3. Delay the release for another 6-12 months, be proud that your game is 99% bug free, be sad because you just went bankrupt.

Sometimes I got the impression that players think developers don't know or care that bugs in a game damage their reputation.
As if they wouldn't care about the quality of their game they put years of work and passion into...

the problem is that they are the same bugs as the first chapter( project cars 1):(

replay
disconnections
invisible walls
lag in rooms
......
......
.....

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 10:46
LOL - this is gold!
More or less a pacifyier isn't it?
I just want a list of Bugs that are known and aknowledgedby SMS

That's what they did for PCARS 1 and the complains were there nonetheless.
The only thing that was different were the types of complains and that SMS got bad press for it.


Make a category in this forum, with a post for each issue/bug, and keep it updated with the progress being done or planned on being done.

This will only change the complains from "We don't know if you know about this bug!" to "Why are you working on this issue when bug XYZ is much more important!!!".



Prolly you dont understand what i said.

Yeah, looks like I did (at least partially). Sorry 'bout that.



I dont said "every" devs are greedy, lazy, incompetent etc...but there is a lot of them.


I disagree with this, for the reasons I already posted.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 10:58
That's what they did for PCARS 1 and the complains were there nonetheless.
The only thing that was different were the types of complains and that SMS got bad press for it.



This will only change the complains from "We don't know if you know about this bug!" to "Why are you working on this issue when bug XYZ is much more important!!!".


I'm going to quote @Siberian Tiger here "Please try to read better" :p
This came up a few hours ago too, but in my opinion, this is exactly the info you'd put in patch updates. I am sure they have reasons for picking what bugs they work on, and i am also sure that the reasons have been well thought of.

Did they actually have a subforum for issues on Pcars1 with a topic for each known bug or was it a huge and long thread for all known bugs?
I'm not here to complain or bash on others - just trying to help make the game better, and the way information is being handled. Why not be totally transparent when what we all want is a better and functioning game?

B1rdy
08-11-2017, 10:58
So you think they're "just" lazy and incompetent?



I agree that it's a business decision (what isn't?). But it's driven by the fact that you have to release your game in a specific timeframe because of your budget.
You can't delay a release infinitely until it's perfect because you don't get the funds to do it. There's only a few scenarios that can happen and none of them are perfect:

1. Release with bugs and hope that you'll get the worst ones fixed comparatively quickly (that's what almost everyone does)
2. Sell your game at a higher price and hope that you can refinance your increased expenses
3. Delay the release for another 6-12 months, be proud that your game is 99% bug free, be sad because you just went bankrupt.

Sometimes I got the impression that players think developers don't know or care that bugs in a game damage their reputation.
As if they wouldn't care about the quality of their game they put years of work and passion into...There is another scenario. Since charging full price, but delivering beta state, seems a bit anti-consumer for me. Why not do an early access phase? I mean outside the world of software development you are not getting fully paid, when you didnīt deliver the advertised/ expected quality/ quantity.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 11:00
I don't want/need any information as I have a bug free version

Good on you!
but that's like saying we don't need to find a cure for cancer because you're healthy...

pablito
08-11-2017, 11:00
That's what they did for PCARS 1 and the complains were there nonetheless.
The only thing that was different were the types of complains and that SMS got bad press for it.



This will only change the complains from "We don't know if you know about this bug!" to "Why are you working on this issue when bug XYZ is much more important!!!".




Yeah, looks like I did (at least partially). Sorry 'bout that.



I disagree with this, for the reasons I already posted.

Sure you can but i disagree with you...just check EA, Activision (Blizzard) etc...boxes, microtransactions...you think its from their heart kindness or high development costs?
And then check devs like Digital Extremes (Warframe), Grinding Gears (Path of Exile)...constant updates, fixes...ofc its not completly free but its balanced between payed content and free content.

Can you see difference?

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 11:01
@RookieRaceline..... you know you're beating a dead horse here don't you.

GTsimms
08-11-2017, 11:03
How do you think WMD 2 members feel about these complaints? Those, who actually participated in the development of this title and we know the complexity of the game. You have to understand these complaints are not being directed only at SMS, but are including WMD 2 members. If, you want to see the build changes as the WMD 2 members have for 2+ years! If or when a WMD 3 opens, please join and actually participate in the development as a WMD member.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 11:04
@RookieRaceline..... you know you're beating a dead horse here don't you.

It's dawning on me yeah... But it's my day off, and having a hard time getting away from my PC to get chores done.. That horse is an excellent excuse for procrastination!

jimortality
08-11-2017, 11:07
Good on you!
but that's like saying we don't need to find a cure for cancer because you're healthy...

No, it's like saying stop complaining and just let the devs get on with fixing what bugs you have without using their time to come in here and list every single fix they're working on.

ps I had cancer in 1991/92

jimortality
08-11-2017, 11:09
It's dawning on me yeah... But it's my day off, and having a hard time getting away from my PC to get chores done.. That horse is an excellent excuse for procrastination!

You could always go and play pcars 2

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 11:12
No, it's like saying stop complaining and just let the devs get on with fixing what bugs you have without using their time to come in here and list every single fix they're working on.

ps I had cancer in 1991/92

Sorry to hear about 91/92 - was trying to make an example that wasn't well thought through (glad you're ok though!)
The main point in all this, is that we don't know if the bugs that we have are known to the devs. That's (imo) why we keep hearing about the same bugs and issues again and again.

A list of known bugs is more or less what this whole thing is about.... I'm sure it's there in a spreadsheet or napkin or something...

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 11:14
ALL bugs are reported/known to the Devs

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 11:14
You could always go and play pcars 2

Some of us don't have an i7 computer with Nvidia GTX 1080 and are stuck with Xbox 1 (standard edition...)
You might be shocked if you tried the game on that. It's still alright and shows potential to what a great game it could be (or is on PC) but really frustrating to play as it is (especially online)

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 11:25
ALL bugs are reported/known to the Devs

This can simply not be true...

Sankyo
08-11-2017, 11:25
This can simply not be true...

Why not?

SunBro
08-11-2017, 11:28
This will only change the complains from "We don't know if you know about this bug!" to "Why are you working on this issue when bug XYZ is much more important!!!".

There doesn't have to be a specific section or something. No new nothing. Staff don't have to open new threads. The existing infrastracture is perfect but not used effective enough. We need a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-e-r response to every single bug thread.
The responses can be like this:

"couldn't reproduce it, sorry, deal with it"
"yeah we reproduced it but seems hard to fix"
"we reproduced it, but the priority is low, will do in the future"
"we reproduced it, began work on a fix"

If they fix it, they can say

"this is now fixed, coming in the next patch, don't ask when"

That's all people ask. I cared about the patch date before because no-f-ing-body responded to our bug thread other than a single mod saying "a potential fix is being worked on"

Now i don't care about the patch date no more because Remco told me my bug was fixed in 1.3.0.0 on discord. But not everyone is obligated to stalk sms like me. So typing just two messages(first being the acknowledgement, second being whether if it was fixed or not) would shut about %75 of people up. The rest %25 will complain no matter what.

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 11:34
Sure you can but i disagree with you...just check EA, Activision (Blizzard) etc...boxes, microtransactions...you think its from their heart kindness or high development costs?

To a degree, high development costs are definitely a reason why DLCs, microtransactions, etc. exist.


Sure you can but i disagree with you...just check EA, Activision (Blizzard) etc...boxes, microtransactions...you think its from their heart kindness or high development costs?
And then check devs like Digital Extremes (Warframe), Grinding Gears (Path of Exile)...constant updates, fixes...ofc its not completly free but its balanced between payed content and free content.

Can you see difference?

Yes I can. The difference is that former are huge publishers and the latter are (indie) developers. Please don't mix those things up.

GTsimms
08-11-2017, 11:36
Mods/WMD 2 are doing some of the testing for the Devs. Example here:http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56921-Shadow-bug&p=1415791#post1415791

Nyreen
08-11-2017, 11:40
Reported, like... "Someone's working on it", or reported "Shhhh I know that, hand me the screwdriver instead"

I don't know what issues they are fixing in priority, but some issues are making the game a pain in the arse for me to play.
Want to overwrite on your tuning just to update your fuel level ? Nah mate, create a new one, otherwise it doesn't save.
Want to use the clutch ? Hahahaha no.

These are known issues, but it's been a month and until some are not fixed, people will still continue to leave the game. I don't plan on playing iRental or AC, but the multiplayer is becoming a wild desert. And if so, then I'll stop playing.

pablito
08-11-2017, 11:42
To a degree, high development costs are definitely a reason why DLCs, microtransactions, etc. exist.



Yes I can. The difference is that former are huge publishers and the latter are (indie) developers. Please don't mix those things up.

imo SMS is closer to DE and GGG then Activision/Blizzard and EA...and its good.

Albertsen
08-11-2017, 11:52
I read that sentence maybe 10 times. Still doesn't make sense. :D

jimortality
08-11-2017, 11:54
I read that sentence maybe 10 times. Still doesn't make sense. :D

Lol same here

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 11:55
I read that sentence maybe 10 times. Still doesn't make sense. :D

He said that SMS is more like an Indie developer like Grinding Gears Games or Digital Extremes than one of the big publisher "monsters".

Lovin' that avatar btw. :cool:

jimortality
08-11-2017, 11:57
I read that sentence maybe 10 times. Still doesn't make sense. :D

Check post 147 and all will be revealed lol

CoproManiac
08-11-2017, 12:08
He said that SMS is more like an Indie developer like Grinding Gears Games or Digital Extremes than one of the big publisher "monsters".

Lovin' that avatar btw. :cool:

U sure he wasn't talking about Girls Go Games? :p

Konan
08-11-2017, 12:11
U sure he wasn't talking about Girls Go Games? :p

Nah...Go Go Girls...:p

GTsimms
08-11-2017, 12:17
Motley Crew "Girls Girls Girls"

pablito
08-11-2017, 12:21
So it looks like this thread is completly pointless and should be closed if even mods spam.

Konan
08-11-2017, 12:26
just joining the club...:p

Konan
08-11-2017, 12:28
So it looks like this thread is completly pointless and should be closed if even mods spam.

look at the title...we can't answer that (not us mods and not SMS) the thread was pointless from the first post on...

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 12:30
Why not?

Mainly because all bugs can't be known yet.
i can to some extend agree or accept that all known bugs are reported and known to the developers. I am guessing that the reason why we keep reading about complaints, is that users are not sure if what they are experiencing is a known issue.

Hence: a list of known issues/bugs

Also, if they are known, why not publish them so people can know?

morpwr
08-11-2017, 12:30
Funny part is I turned on my pc last night and when I started steam it said downloading update for pcars2 then I noticed it said 0 of 0.:(

Konan
08-11-2017, 12:32
Mainly because all bugs can't be known yet.
i can to some extend agree or accept that all known bugs are reported and known to the developers. I am guessing that the reason why we keep reading about complaints, is that users are not sure if what they are experiencing is a known issue.

Hence: a list of known issues/bugs

Also, if they are known, why not publish them so people can know?

would you rather have them working on the bugs or on the list of bugs (and please don't say both)

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 12:33
There doesn't have to be a specific section or something. No new nothing. Staff don't have to open new threads. The existing infrastracture is perfect but not used effective enough. We need a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-e-r response to every single bug thread.
The responses can be like this:

"couldn't reproduce it, sorry, deal with it"
"yeah we reproduced it but seems hard to fix"
"we reproduced it, but the priority is low, will do in the future"
"we reproduced it, began work on a fix"

If they fix it, they can say

"this is now fixed, coming in the next patch, don't ask when"

That's all people ask. I cared about the patch date before because no-f-ing-body responded to our bug thread other than a single mod saying "a potential fix is being worked on"

I've said this multiple times before and I'll say it again..... do you really think this is a realistic suggestion?

MaXyM
08-11-2017, 12:34
would you rather have them working on the bugs or on the list of bugs (and please don't say both)

I cannot imagine devs itself communicating with customers. There should be dedicated person/team to do that.
Or what about to ask WMD members to help synchronize issues state between devs and public forum?

TopAirspace
08-11-2017, 12:34
I have it on good word that the patch will be out sometime in the near future :)


Thread integrity totally regained :cool:

jimortality
08-11-2017, 12:36
So when is the patch out? :o

Angst1974
08-11-2017, 12:37
would you rather have them working on the bugs or on the list of bugs (and please don't say both)

It would probably be VERY useful if they had a list of bugs first , so they knew what to work on .




.. just sayin'

Bealdor
08-11-2017, 12:38
So when is the patch out? :o

SMSoon™

TopAirspace
08-11-2017, 12:41
So when is the patch out? :o

No idea, i was just trolling

244743

metis forex
08-11-2017, 12:46
It would probably be VERY useful if they had a list of bugs first , so they knew what to work on .




.. just sayin'

This pretty much sums up how the mods and devs treat the community. If there is any criticism of just logical things it's met with sarcasm. Well done.

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 12:49
How about how the community treat the Devs and Mods?

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 12:49
would you rather have them working on the bugs or on the list of bugs (and please don't say both)

So in my head, this list already exists and is being updated.
If there are known bugs, there must be a check list or something with them

If there is no list, or if this list is not being updated with status updates and priorities for a superior to keep track of what is going on, i'd say we've found the greatest issue with SMS right there..

It's work already done (listing known bugs, sorting them in priority, explaining the thoughts behing the priority, and checking off the ones that are done).
Just polish it up, and post it to the public

TopAirspace
08-11-2017, 12:53
This pretty much sums up how the mods and devs treat the community. If there is any criticism of just logical things it's met with sarcasm. Well done.


Interesting, because i have raised a few issues / improvement ideas and each time I've been given a swift responce and even apologys. I suspect the silence some people encounter has to do with attitude / demands.

Just my 2c

Roger Prynne
08-11-2017, 12:56
Interesting, because i have raised a few issues / improvement ideas and each time I've been given a swift responce and even apologys. I suspect the silence some people encounter has to do with attitude / demands.

Just my 2c

This is so true.

Sankyo
08-11-2017, 12:57
So in my head, this list already exists and is being updated.
If there are known bugs, there must be a check list or something with them

If there is no list, or if this list is not being updated with status updates and priorities for a superior to keep track of what is going on, i'd say we've found the greatest issue with SMS right there..

It's work already done (listing known bugs, sorting them in priority, explaining the thoughts behing the priority, and checking off the ones that are done).
Just polish it up, and post it to the public
No sane developer is going to post their work list in the open. It will just confirm my Second Law, and discussion will just shift and rage about why stuff takes so long or why the priorities are how they are, and demands will be raised for someone from SMS to come in and explain why the priorities are like that or why it's taking so long.

GTsimms
08-11-2017, 12:57
How do you think WMD 2 members feel about these complaints? Those, who actually participated in the development of this title and we know the complexity of the game. You have to understand these complaints are not being directed only at SMS, but are including WMD 2 members. If, you want to see the build changes as the WMD 2 members have for 2+ years! If or when a WMD 3 opens, please join and actually participate in the development as a WMD member.

Bump

Kriig
08-11-2017, 12:57
Interesting, because i have raised a few issues / improvement ideas and each time I've been given a swift responce and even apologys. I suspect the silence some people encounter has to do with attitude / demands.

Just my 2c

Yes.. It's not allways about what you say, but how you say it.

RookieRaceline
08-11-2017, 12:58
No sane developer is going to post their work list in the open. It will just confirm my Second Law, and discussion will just shift and rage about why stuff takes so long or why the priorities are how they are, and demands will be raised for someone from SMS to come in and explain why the priorities are like that or why it's taking so long.

Sigh...
I'm out guys!
This discussion is turning into a loop

metis forex
08-11-2017, 13:01
Interesting, because i have raised a few issues / improvement ideas and each time I've been given a swift responce and even apologys. I suspect the silence some people encounter has to do with attitude / demands.

Just my 2c

Do you think there isn't a bug list so people could at least know their problems have been heard?

Or do you think it takes too long to copy and paste them? A 19 page thread, seems like paying customers should have some response.

On a side note, any sarcasm towards customers is highly frowned upon at most companies that want returning customers but here it's the rule rather than the exception.

Maybe that's why people get snarky?

iamisti
08-11-2017, 13:10
sry but I'm so bored of these conversations, I drop this here:

Just chill and wait for the patch,
SMS guys are doing their best,
Noone can tell what will it have,
But Ian will come and tell you some facts.
This forum is all about giving clients information,
Although I'm still clueless reading these conversations.

Konan
08-11-2017, 13:11
and that is a fine post to close this thread with...