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hardlock
13-11-2017, 23:49
Hi, I had no idea that getting one's FFB to work properly was going to be this complicated. After hours of reading/tweaking, I have it sort of working but keep running into troubles.

1) Currently, if I let go of the wheel on a smooth straight-away, I get steering oscillations going that progress to out of control. Tried too many things now to know what I screwed up....

2) What's best setting for reducing max "hits" and increasing subtle feelings like road surface, turn oversteer, rear coming loose etc. Best I get is steering resistance then nothing when traction is lost. I'm used to riding the edge of control and really hoped this level of feedback was achievable.

I realize that every setting change can effect every function so a baseline setup would be very helpful as a starting point. I don't want to use other programs as those seem to just add to my confusion. My understanding is the Thrustmaster T150 is the same as the TMX on a PC? Since it's older, there may be links I didn't find to setting for it if comparable. Other Thrustmaster models settings I've tried don't seem to work at all however. Thanks all!

hardlock
14-11-2017, 07:10
I just tested the following setting with good results. Many of these were much different than many "must use" values from hours of other posts.

Going with the fact that these settings are very recent, figured I'd skip all the rest and use this as a basis to start with.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1147221&viewfull=1#post1147221

Some changes I've made are to the deadzone settings for better centering and not such a light center. This info came from here:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35147-Baseline-Wheel-FFB-Values-Google-Sheet-amp-FCM-Universal&p=1333195&viewfull=1#post1333195

So far am testing on the RUF Rgt-8 GT3. Sorry I can't find where I got this car setup data:

Mahjik
14-11-2017, 14:26
The deadzone settings will be the one that causes more oscillations. You'll have to find a balance of your deadzone settings and the oscillations.

hardlock
14-11-2017, 19:40
Thanks for that. I've playing with those values and have it toned down somewhat. Also added some SoP settings that feel to be doing something as well but still getting some hard "knocks" at times that seem out of place on the track?

Man, when it works, it's great! I'm actually winning races again!

hardlock
14-11-2017, 23:48
Lots more testing done today to get rid of the oscillations. Tried turning off both deadzone settings. Then tried higher and lower settings of steering gain. Seems the steering gain tightens or loosens the center? In all cases, the oscillations in straight-line tracking are present. Hands off with nothing to upset the inertia tracking is fine.

Just bump the wheel and they begin. Ideally steering should settle back down to none again by itself but instead keep increasing till total lose of control. Steering gain only seems to effect how tight or loose the swinging, not intensity. Again, this test was with deadzones off so still clueless to cause.

If anyone wants to test those settings from the links above and see if they experience it also, I'd like to hear your results. Thanks!

Mahjik
15-11-2017, 10:28
What are you using for Deadzone Removal settings?

hardlock
15-11-2017, 11:31
Been all over the map. The "stock" settings I'm using from GTsimms for the T150 on 9/20/17 are:

DRR = .17
DRF= .035

Also tried:

DRR = .15
DRF = .01-02 for testing.

Seems the higher the Falloff, the looser the center gets?

To tighten up have tried all the way down to 0. Did have one of his setting wrong (clamp maybe) that was throwing things off however.

My goal is to establish settings that will work with "most" cars I like. Then tweak car settings for individual feels.

Trouble is I have all my cars individually set for a 1600 res joystick which is fine for their steering ratios and handling for most of the GT3 cars where I'm using the above spindle settings. (IE: Audi, RUF, McClellan, Vantage). Seems to work well with other road and GT4-5 cars I have tweaked as well.

However, just found the Caterham Seven is pretty much undriveable with these "stock" settings. Osc. to the max! (we called them PIO for Pilot Induced Oscillations in aerodynamic engineering). Once swinging, no way to return to stable w/o braking way down and gradually re-accelerating back to speed on a straight and smooth section of track. Have to freeze the input tendency to correct (just makes the osc. worse) and wait til it settles down before acc. again. Might be a clue to the general setting problem?

Mahjik
15-11-2017, 12:30
The higher the DRR, the more oscillation you will have. I never used over .05 but I was using a G25 at the time. However, even with my TX, I never increased it. As mentioned, you will have to play with the tradeoffs. However, to some extent, some of it is expected. If you flick the wheel to one direction, if the car has speed it should start to flip to the other (and eventually back again):

https://youtu.be/YoxDMZE-qbg?t=7m11s

hardlock
15-11-2017, 23:21
Thanks for that info!

I think I'm at least getting a handle on the relationship between steering gain and DRR. Now at .05 with about .004 (I guess) on DRF. Still not sure of the relationship between these two however.

Problem now is that forgetting the spindle, body and SoP car settings for now, I can't seem to get one batch of control FFB settings to work with more than one car at a time.

With so many interactions between settings, testing all combos is beyond a career move! Back to the books I guess. :)

hardlock
16-11-2017, 04:27
Here's a new one. Was trying to kill all car FFB settings for testing and when these functions was set to zero (one was maybe Mz = 50?), a white line popped up on the hud-tele display FFB box bottom showing the effect of some sort of vibrators I could feel in the steering wheel itself?

Only engaged when skidding or hard cornering and are physically pretty loud with a fine saw-tooth waveform of different intensities.

The vibration runs up and down the freq. scale as well. Like the buzzer in cell phone.
Hum... I kept playing with it and now can't replicate? Weird....

I do remember reading somewhere about these vibrators in cheap wheels without real FFB?

hardlock
19-11-2017, 10:51
Nobody? Okay, forget that anomaly and maybe help me with this. I've got it back in the ballpark but still have the problem of return to center w/o resistance? I've got it to dig into the turns nicely but by the time I have it centered again coming out of the turn I'm off the road?

Mad Al
19-11-2017, 11:28
It's actually a bug where the old canned effects come out.. they shouldn't, but some weird combination of events causes it occasionally.

hardlock
28-11-2017, 18:02
I might have found a way to stop the canned effect (buzzing tones in turns) by turning off "periodic" in win ctrl "gain" settings. Still testing but so far so good. Not sure what other FFB effects it might turn off however?

Also, using the global calibrate settings below based on GTsimms settings for ALL cars with good luck! All the car settings are now just left to their defaults and still display their different characteristics. I have found however that once in a while the arm angle needs to be changed in spindle settings.

IE: I found that the Caterham classic seven has negative settings available (?) for arm angle and after trying all the usual default positive ones (0, 700, 1500, 2600) still couldn't tighten it up enough to keep it from overly "swishing" back and forth all the time. Going way negative with this seems to help for some reason. Let me know if you try it what you think.

My current Thrustmaster global settings (V-11):

Configuration:

FFB: 100
Damper Sat: 25 (testing)

Calibrate:

TF: 75
PWM: (neg) -0.01
PWM sqr: 0.02
WPS: 0.04
DRR: 0.17
DRF: 0.35 (.3 + 5 right clicks)
LScale: 0.00
LStiffness: 0.98
LDamping: 0.98
RAG: 1.46
RAB: 0.10
RAC: 0.85
SK: 0.61
SR: 0.46
SC Half: 0.00
SC Full: 0.00
MSS: 0.40
LSSC: 0.88
LSSS: 0.95
SG: 0.75

Being a perfectionist, there's of course always room for improvement but after winning a few races now, I'm pretty happy with these! Used with different cars in GT3 campaigns and their other invited races (C1, 900, BMW, etc.)

BTW, these settings should work with most TM wheels I believe after talking to the company. Overall strength may need to be changed however if they seem too weak or powerful.

hardlock
01-12-2017, 23:46
Have tested many cars now with these setting with great results. As mentioned, some just need arm angle changes but keeping all other car settings stock. Really getting to love the feel with FFB! Control of drifts allow some interesting passing in turns and back to winning most AI races again. Staying at 50% AI but no practice or qualifiers so starting all the races last place for the challenge. Some fun!

Thanks for the help getting setup. That's the good news. However I have to air a major grip about the programming of the AI. I've confirmed this as FACT for many if not all the tracks/cars (have over 560 hours and close to 8000 races now). I don't have tire wear or damage on so not related to those.

Here's the deal and I really would like to know if I'm alone on this or not. Other threads about it were non-conclusive and being I was driving with a joystick that may have led to the issue, I really couldn't complain.

Now I'm sure! This sim is RIGGED! Fine for the "game" aspect but not as a sim. Since the AI races are random with some harder than others, it's not 100% but I've replicated it HUNDREDS of times now and the frustration has become overwhelming.

It's always in the LAST lap of a race. It happens differently depending on where I am in the pack order but an example is you're 1st with a good gap between the 2nd place car. Last turn and you lose it for no apparent reason. That in-itself could be from subconsciously over pushing it but even with well defined smooth speed & tracking control you can feel the "clamp" of steering control (what I call it) loosen more and more till you're off the track. The bad part is YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WIN, period.

Even if you hit the reset, most of the pack shoot past you and getting back on the track at all becomes impossible at least till you are in last place! You spin around out of control, skidding the wrong way, speed is restricted and you can't even keep a straight line, etc. And what's the deal with the AI cars ALWAYS having full speed and control when THEY go off the track?

Anyway, I've been a loyal fan of SMS physics back from NSF games. I just hope the hot-shot programmer that thought this "effect" was added value to the AI of pCARS-1 at least isn't adding anything unrealistic to pCARS-2 or I'll be looking elsewhere for my next sim.

Mahjik
02-12-2017, 17:30
There is nothing "rigged".

The AI does not have the exact same physics as the player (you can find numerous threads discussing this topic). The AI runs a more simple set of physics to be able to have higher amounts of cars to race against. With that, what affects the player doesn't affect the AI in the exact same manner.

hardlock
02-12-2017, 20:21
There is nothing "rigged".

The AI does not have the exact same physics as the player (you can find numerous threads discussing this topic). The AI runs a more simple set of physics to be able to have higher amounts of cars to race against. With that, what affects the player doesn't affect the AI in the exact same manner.

That explains a lot and maybe "rigged" wasn't an appropriate descriptor (was fuming at the time of rant) but if I could show a vid of a typical "event" I could prove the anomaly since I know how, where and when they happen. Is I posted elsewhere, there is already damage to the wall in one track exactly where I always end up crashing.... :rolleyes: