PDA

View Full Version : Indycar Oval at Indianapolis - weak FFB



DGamble
16-11-2017, 16:13
This may be normal, but my Dallara is in the shop and I can't test it for reality: when I use the Dallara Oval setup at Indy, there is little to no force feedback. I think I can feel a little weight on the fronts when I brake, but not 100% of that.

Is there no steering resistance on an Indycar when the wings are essentially flat like they are on a super speedway?

Alan Dallas
16-11-2017, 16:17
It would be helpful if you posted your equipment.
Also there's a section on the forums here that have lots of helpful FFB tuning tips.
-> http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?146-Technical-Help-amp-Support-(PC)

BrandonWright77
16-11-2017, 16:48
Same on my T300, road course feels fine and has lots of weight/feeling but the oval car is numb and light. Considering these cars don't have power steering in real life I tend to doubt a super light wheel is correct.

Alan Dallas
16-11-2017, 17:07
This is anecdotal as everyone uses FFB settings to suit their tastes: however I only notice the wheel loading up in the corners and braking for the pits on Indy. I've done just over 2000 miles in the Dallara Oval configuration there. Which to me is correct. It should feel light to the touch running strait under power. Come to think of it, I've got my FFB tuned on my TX to feel the same or slightly better than rF2's at Indy.

If you need a better explanation on how FFB settings work in PC2, take look at Yorkie's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osoxynF0wYw

JasonSandwich
16-11-2017, 22:24
Same here. I just noticed this last night.

Lilfurbal
16-11-2017, 22:40
Interesting this is mentioned here as I just randomly did a free run with the oval indy in Indianapolis and was quite disappointed in how loose and lifeless it felt. Actually with how loose it was it caused me to accidentally throw the steering wheel a bit too much for a dramatic spin and crash lol. I then went onto other things after being rather disappointed by how that felt.

diesel97
16-11-2017, 23:48
This is anecdotal as everyone uses FFB settings to suit their tastes: however I only notice the wheel loading up in the corners and braking for the pits on Indy. I've done just over 2000 miles in the Dallara Oval configuration there. Which to me is correct. It should feel light to the touch running strait under power. Come to think of it, I've got my FFB tuned on my TX to feel the same or slightly better than rF2's at Indy.

If you need a better explanation on how FFB settings work in PC2, take look at Yorkie's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osoxynF0wYw

I would have thought a high down force car would have a heavy wheel

Alan Dallas
16-11-2017, 23:56
I would have thought a high down force car would have a heavy wheel
The suspension is soaking up all that down force. Pulling the wheel off center at speed takes very little effort, which one of the reasons for such a high steering ratio. Lower ratio's make an over grown go cart such as the Dallara DW-12 very twitchy.

sirio994
17-11-2017, 00:24
Honestly open wheels are off. Both Indy and Formula A. The wheel is too light compared to what it should and other sims. Formula A has no feedback through the Eau Rouge. Ovals are all about feeling the grip every moment...but how can you do it with that ffb. Two mounths from release i still cannot believe people think that ffb is ok with open wheels...

Alan Dallas
17-11-2017, 00:51
Honestly open wheels are off. Both Indy and Formula A. The wheel is too light compared to what it should and other sims. Formula A has no feedback through the Eau Rouge. Ovals are all about feeling the grip every moment...but how can you do it with that ffb. Two mounths from release i still cannot believe people think that ffb is ok with open wheels...
I'm probably at an advantage that I'm on PC, but I can feel everything the oval surfaces have to offer as I'm using one of Jackspades Custom FFB files. That being said, there really isn't much to feel from the surface of Indianapolis even with Jacks FFB. It's 4 butter smooth straits connected by four left hand corners. Once the rubber builds up in the corners there you'll start to feel the tires start to shudder when they begin their slip/grip/slip/grip oscillation. The vibration in my wheel is pretty intense from it and it shakes my whole sim rig. enough to blur my vision if I put my head back on the head rest.

diesel97
17-11-2017, 00:51
The suspension is soaking up all that down force. Pulling the wheel off center at speed takes very little effort, which one of the reasons for such a high steering ratio. Lower ratio's make an over grown go cart such as the Dallara DW-12 very twitchy.

When I watched indy oval they got out of the car soaking wet with sweat and exhausted

Alan Dallas
17-11-2017, 00:58
When I watched indy oval they got out of the car soaking wet with sweat and exhausted
Well it is 500 miles and it's not exactly cold in that car. Add in fighting the G Forces in the corners and you're going to work up a sweat. Working the steering alone isn't going to exactly make you sweat profusely.

Alan Dallas
17-11-2017, 01:17
Ah ha! This is what I was looking for. Watch his hands closely and how little effort he uses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3_GhObko4?t=970

Hobbs77
17-11-2017, 01:43
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a18270/you-think-driving-an-indy-car-is-easy/

diesel97
17-11-2017, 01:58
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a18270/you-think-driving-an-indy-car-is-easy/

that's what i thought

Lilfurbal
17-11-2017, 14:29
Ah ha! This is what I was looking for. Watch his hands closely and how little effort he uses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3_GhObko4?t=970


From seeing that I'd expect the force feedback to be a lot more exciting on the straights than it currently seems to be. Looks like it's as shaky / twitchy as the straights in most of the f1 2017 game. Too bad it's quite buttery smooth in project cars 2. Though Monaco is also buttery smooth in PC2, while it's probably the most rough track in f1 2017. Given that neither game laser scanned Monaco, f1 2017 definitely does the better job at recreating it in a more enticing manner. Indianapolis was laser scanned, no excused there lol.

That said I do generally feel an increase in force feedback on the turns but yeah, the straights are super smooth.

diesel97
17-11-2017, 15:04
From seeing that I'd expect the force feedback to be a lot more exciting on the straights than it currently seems to be. Looks like it's as shaky / twitchy as the straights in most of the f1 2017 game. Too bad it's quite buttery smooth in project cars 2. Though Monaco is also buttery smooth in PC2, while it's probably the most rough track in f1 2017. Given that neither game laser scanned Monaco, f1 2017 definitely does the better job at recreating it in a more enticing manner. Indianapolis was laser scanned, no excused there lol.

That said I do generally feel an increase in force feedback on the turns but yeah, the straights are super smooth.

Is it the laser-scanned tracks or lack there of? or just poor implication of what they think the FFB should be?

BrandonWright77
17-11-2017, 19:00
I'm probably at an advantage that I'm on PC, but I can feel everything the oval surfaces have to offer

I'm on PC and with the oval spec IndyCar I feel virtually nothing from the track or FFB with default flavors or Jake Spade. Road course spec feels great, oval spec feels dead.


It's 4 butter smooth straits connected by four left hand corners.

Except it's not. I've stood on the track many times and even driven my car around it. It has a series of 0.5-1" deep grooves running the entire length of the track and the top of it has been diamond cut to rough it up because it was too smooth after the re-pave several years ago. Flat, yes. Smooth, no, not even close.


Well it is 500 miles and it's not exactly cold in that car. Add in fighting the G Forces in the corners and you're going to work up a sweat. Working the steering alone isn't going to exactly make you sweat profusely.

Yet F1 drivers drive in hot conditions with higher G forces and when they get out of the car they've barely broken a sweat. IndyCars don't have power steering. The drivers have said time and again that they're pretty brutal to drive, even on ovals, due to the heavy steering. Fernando commented after his rookie test day that the steering was much heavier than he's used to or expected. Several drivers have even suffered hand injuries from how violently the wheel can turn when the car gets loose or makes contact with something. Based on many many years of watching and attending IndyCar races at Indy (I've been there over 50 times and will be there again in a few days) I do not believe the steering should be feather light around this track. Just my opinion, but it's a fairly educated opinion.

diesel97
17-11-2017, 23:35
I'm on PC and with the oval spec IndyCar I feel virtually nothing from the track or FFB with default flavors or Jake Spade. Road course spec feels great, oval spec feels dead.



Except it's not. I've stood on the track many times and even driven my car around it. It has a series of 0.5-1" deep grooves running the entire length of the track and the top of it has been diamond cut to rough it up because it was too smooth after the re-pave several years ago. Flat, yes. Smooth, no, not even close.



Yet F1 drivers drive in hot conditions with higher G forces and when they get out of the car they've barely broken a sweat. IndyCars don't have power steering. The drivers have said time and again that they're pretty brutal to drive, even on ovals, due to the heavy steering. Fernando commented after his rookie test day that the steering was much heavier than he's used to or expected. Several drivers have even suffered hand injuries from how violently the wheel can turn when the car gets loose or makes contact with something. Based on many many years of watching and attending IndyCar races at Indy (I've been there over 50 times and will be there again in a few days) I do not believe the steering should be feather light around this track. Just my opinion, but it's a fairly educated opinion.

I know I will get crapped on for this but it seames anything US racing has not put the time and money into it indy/nascar

Alan Dallas
19-11-2017, 05:58
I'm on PC and with the oval spec IndyCar I feel virtually nothing from the track or FFB with default flavors or Jake Spade. Road course spec feels great, oval spec feels dead.

Except it's not. I've stood on the track many times and even driven my car around it. It has a series of 0.5-1" deep grooves running the entire length of the track and the top of it has been diamond cut to rough it up because it was too smooth after the re-pave several years ago. Flat, yes. Smooth, no, not even close.


1) The steering loads up heavily in game on my wheel in the corners with the Oval spec. If you're not experiencing that I might suggest you check your wheels settings.
2) I was referring to SMS's implementation of the track being smooth. Indy is not laser scanned here. Thanks for the feedback however.

DGamble
19-11-2017, 15:28
1) The steering loads up heavily in game on my wheel in the corners with the Oval spec. If you're not experiencing that I might suggest you check your wheels settings.
2) I was referring to SMS's implementation of the track being smooth. Indy is not laser scanned here. Thanks for the feedback however.

OP: That is identical to my experience. The turns are okay (albeit still a little light) but it's as if FF is completely turned off on the straights. I would expect at least some weight on the wheels, if only from the weight of the car itself. I wish I had known to ask Oriol Servia when I had a chat with him to find out if the real cars feel this way. I sure got an earful from him about Mid-Ohio, though.

vitinho0z
20-11-2017, 00:41
I noticed that the handling of these cars become really slippery (almost impossible to drive). But it is only happeing on Offline Races with IA. It runs normal on Time Trials.

Gsx31
20-11-2017, 04:17
That finally pleases to see that I am not any more the only one to think that this track of Indianapolis in a problem. And it is necessary to stop with the regulations of the FFB the problem it is the track and not the FFB

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55602-First-turn-at-indy-oval-with-indycars&p=1398733&viewfull=1#post1398733

Hammerpgh
15-12-2017, 21:47
This is exactly my experience at Indy too but I suspect it's a general oval problem which I will test later. I get virtually no feel from the wheel no matter what flavour or individual settings I use. Along the straights it feels detached from the track it's so smooth and there's pretty much no forces acting on the wheel into the corners. I even tried going across the grass and it's still as light as hell with very little feedback!! After tweaking and messing with the settings as much as I could I even drove full speed direct into the end of the pit wall and there was very little feel from the impact.

Very, very disappointing especially as I was looking forward to an Indycar league including the ovals starting in January.

Is this issue something that might get fixed in an upcoming patch @Ian Bell

senna94f1
15-12-2017, 22:25
The suspension is soaking up all that down force. Pulling the wheel off center at speed takes very little effort, which one of the reasons for such a high steering ratio. Lower ratio's make an over grown go cart such as the Dallara DW-12 very twitchy.

He has a point because by changing your steering ratio makes a lot of difference even to how the ffb loads up ,

I keep reading this is related only to thrustmaster wheels,I think it's best probably to stick with say 5 favourite cars then race them and that way you won't confuse yourself by continuely trying to find the right ffb feelings

,I also think a lot of people think this is like the first game but it's not , Pcars 2 is a lot more complex hence pick your favourite cars and race them ,, also some of this had to do with the updates and what flavours were working,
I day one release all of the flavours worked brilliantly and as we had updates the ffb has changed to some good and some not so good,
Still on a positive note the game is still going from strength to strength,

With the Indycars I find I have to practice and change the ffb settings before I start with garage settings,and also obviously the more your tyres heat up the more ffb on wheel you will feel,

Telb60
16-12-2017, 07:47
Honestly open wheels are off. Both Indy and Formula A. The wheel is too light compared to what it should and other sims. Formula A has no feedback through the Eau Rouge. Ovals are all about feeling the grip every moment...but how can you do it with that ffb. Two mounths from release i still cannot believe people think that ffb is ok with open wheels...

I'm with you on this.If anyone doubts there is a problem, load up PC1 and compare the two. I have a G29 and I realise that this may not be the best wheel in the world but at least I can feel some FFB/resistance in PC1 in PC2 it's vague and lightweight like it's not turned on.

Hammerpgh
16-12-2017, 08:12
He has a point because by changing your steering ratio makes a lot of difference even to how the ffb loads up ,

I keep reading this is related only to thrustmaster wheels,I think it's best probably to stick with say 5 favourite cars then race them and that way you won't confuse yourself by continuely trying to find the right ffb feelings

,I also think a lot of people think this is like the first game but it's not , Pcars 2 is a lot more complex hence pick your favourite cars and race them ,, also some of this had to do with the updates and what flavours were working,
I day one release all of the flavours worked brilliantly and as we had updates the ffb has changed to some good and some not so good,
Still on a positive note the game is still going from strength to strength,

With the Indycars I find I have to practice and change the ffb settings before I start with garage settings,and also obviously the more your tyres heat up the more ffb on wheel you will feel,

Its not related just to Thrustmaster wheels as other wheel users also report the same problem.

Tbh why would I stick to just 5 cars in a game with so many that I want to drive? However, thats not the issue here it's purely down to the weak FFB at Indy at possibly other ovals. Can anybody confirm it's 'all' ovals as I've not been able to test that yet.