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Brandon Pisz
19-11-2017, 16:48
I've been driving road cars in this game daily since its release (Lamborghini Aventador, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, Ferrari LaFerrari, and a smattering of others) and I've noticed one thing they all have in common!

-They all have an unrealistic amount of grip. I can't full throttle a hyper car without nearly spinning out, I hit a simple turn as fast as I should've been going and I spin out. Then I hop on other sims such as Assetto Corsa/Live For Speed and they handle just fine.

Please work more on road cars!

-Brandon

MaXyM
19-11-2017, 16:52
Actually in real life you cannot floor super-cars. Or you can... YT is full of heroes doing that ;)
If you feel those car unstable in some way, look at setups and load OEM or stable one.
Also make sure you have driving aids set to realistic. Then in setup you can control amount of those assists to your needs.

sp3ctor
19-11-2017, 17:01
I've been driving road cars in this game daily since its release (Lamborghini Aventador, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, Ferrari LaFerrari, and a smattering of others) and I've noticed one thing they all have in common!

-They all have an unrealistic amount of grip. I can't full throttle a hyper car without nearly spinning out, I hit a simple turn as fast as I should've been going and I spin out. Then I hop on other sims such as Assetto Corsa/Live For Speed and they handle just fine.

Please work more on road cars!

-Brandon

I can assure you that if you full throttle my 650s in the first few gears that you will not enjoy the experience even from a rolling start with everything set to “sports” and not “track.” Launch mode, sure, with warm tires on a track... human mode with full throttle is another story.

Brandon Pisz
19-11-2017, 17:04
Actually in real life you cannot floor super-cars. Or you can... YT is full of heroes doing that ;)
If you feel those car unstable in some way, look at setups and load OEM or stable one.
Also make sure you have driving aids set to realistic. Then in setup you can control amount of those assists to your needs.


Reply - I have set even traction control on, stability control on, I have to correct setup/tyres on and I for some reason still find myself spinning out and losing grip when I shouldn't be.

Assetto Corsa is praised for its road-car physics and car handling even by manufacturures themselves.

So why do they feel so different? The weight transfer, grip, etc is all so different between the two. I also drive in real life and go fast sometimes then I get on PC2 and there's a shocking difference in grip and body roll.

satco1066
19-11-2017, 17:08
most people compare "street" to their 80 to 150 HP private car. :p

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-11-2017, 17:13
Reply - I have set even traction control on, stability control on, I have to correct setup/tyres on and I for some reason still find myself spinning out and losing grip when I shouldn't be.

Assetto Corsa is praised for its road-car physics and car handling even by manufacturures themselves.

So why do they feel so different? The weight transfer, grip, etc is all so different between the two. I also drive in real life and go fast sometimes then I get on PC2 and there's a shocking difference in grip and body roll.

Lmao. Oh great, another Assetto Corsa player who's surprised by the reality that cars do not handle anything like they do in Assetto Corsa. Sorry to have to break it to you like this but:

Assetto Corsa is RUBBISH.

The only people who praise Assetto Corsa are the people who play it. i.e. videogamers who have't the slightest clue about automotive simulation. The vast majority seem to be children who think FFB and physics are some way some how related. Lol. I see that all the time, and it boggles my mind. I cannot fathom how anyone on planet Earth could think FFB is an indicator of a good vehicle physics simulation. It's quite comical really.

Assetto Corsa has fake and unrealistic FFB effects pumped into all the cars, and although it can feel very nice to some, it's just not realistic. Then there's the physics... Oh boy, the physics... The only thing Assetto Corsa is good for is drifting. Aside from that, it's useless as an actual driving simulator. Certainly useless when compared to the likes of rFactor 2, and Project Cars.

Even Project Cars 1 has a far more realistic suspension and tyre model than Assetto Corsa. In Assetto Corsa, tyres lose grip terribly unrealistically, and aside from their very unrealistic tendency to slide around, the cars are glued to the road.

You know I've tried Assetto Corsa many times. I keep coming across all these internet comments by people with chips on their shoulder talking about how much better Assetto Corsa is than rF2, iRacing, Project Cars, etc. and when trying Assetto Corsa I can't help but feel as though Kunos is paying people to troll the internet posting such nonsense.

I tried the BMW M4 just two weeks ago in Assetto Corsa, boy oh boy was I disappointed. It felt NOTHING like any M4 I've ever driven, and I've driven 3 different M4s, as well as 2 M3s. First thing I notice is the FFB. It's ridiculous. A real BMW M4 has very poor FFB, yet in Assetto Corsa I feel all kinds of things. Then there's the car's ability to turn. It's just so different from the real thing. Often it becomes unpredictable for no reason.

Brandon Pisz
19-11-2017, 17:15
most people compare "street" to their 80 to 150 HP private car. :p

If PC2 cars handle like real life, I guess hypercars handle like crap. Sim racers and even a real GT pilot has told me personally that the cars in PC2 have no control whatsoever. They have much more grip and control in real life than in PC2. I'm just suggesting that they improve the physics before adding anything else. Physics should come before everything in a sim.

Konan
19-11-2017, 17:18
most people compare "street" to their 80 to 150 HP private car. :p

Can you tell me where those horses are hiding in my Corsa please? LOL

Konan
19-11-2017, 17:21
I've had real GT drivers and sim racers tell me otherwise. And from my own experience, PC2 doesn't have a realistic amount of grip.

All kinds of race drivers assisted on developing/testing/approving for Pcars2 though...and they say it's spot on...even a McLaren engineer...(or test driver...can't recall) anyway an expert...

Brandon Pisz
19-11-2017, 17:25
@Konan

Did they say "it's spot on" without a PC2 dev handing them a check for marketing? Orrr?? Ive heard Turn 10 claim Forza 6 is a simulator.. But we all know its not. I've had a McLaren driver (Alexander West) tell me personally on his own YouTube channel that the 650S GT3 car handles nothing like it does in real life compared to Project cars 2. He said PC2 and even Assetto have way too little control when turning and going over apexes. He said the car slips and loses traction way too easily.

ShimonART
19-11-2017, 17:26
Lmao. Oh great, another Assetto Corsa player who's surprised by the reality that cars do not handle anything like they do in Assetto Corsa. Sorry to have to break it to you like this but:

Assetto Corsa is RUBBISH.

The only people who praise Assetto Corsa are the people who play it. i.e. videogamers who have't the slightest clue about automotive simulation. Children who think FFB and physics are in any way whatsoever related. Lol. I see that all the time, and it boggles my mind. I cannot fathom how anyone on planet Earth could think FFB is an indicator of a good vehicle physics simulation. It's quite comical really.

Even Project Cars 1 has a far more realistic suspension and tyre model than Assetto Corsa. In Assetto Corsa, tyres lose grip terribly unrealistically, and aside from their very unrealistic tendency to slide around, the cars are glued to the road.

oh boy.... :rolleyes:

lets not start my sim is better then your sim war lol.

maybe you should instead give him advice on how to drive hyper cars to the maximum?

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-11-2017, 17:29
@Konan

Did they say "it's spot on" without a PC2 dev handing them a check for marketing? Orrr?? Ive heard Turn 10 claim Forza 6 is a simulator.. But we all know its not. I've had a McLaren driver (Alexander West) tell me personally on his own YouTube channel that the 650S GT3 car handles nothing like it does in real life compared to Project cars 2. He said PC2 and even Assetto have way too little control when turning and going over apexes. He said the car slips and loses traction way too easily.

Link to the video and comment then please. Not that I don't believe you but... some proof would help your case. I've not driven a GT3 car, so I can't comment on the Mclaren, but in my personal real-life experience with some of the other road cars in Project Cars 2, I can tell you for a fact that they behave in the sim as they should. In Assetto Corsa, they don't. Not by a VERY long shot.

@ShimonART: Sorry, but I have to tell it like it is. As someone with the real-life experience, I actually know what I'm talking about, lol.

Konan
19-11-2017, 17:33
Link to the video and comment then please. Not that I don't believe you but... some proof would help your case. I've not driven a GT3 car, so I can't comment on the Mclaren, but in my personal real-life experience with some of the other road cars in Project Cars 2, I can tell you for a fact that they behave in the sim as they should. In Assetto Corsa, they don't. Not by a VERY long shot.

I've got mine...

https://youtu.be/XPVl6xwcZ-g

Roger Prynne
19-11-2017, 17:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zahylLQnYh0

PostBox981
19-11-2017, 17:39
All kinds of race drivers assisted on developing/testing/approving for Pcars2 though...and they say it's spot on...even a McLaren engineer...(or test driver...can't recall) anyway an expert...

You mean this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zahylLQnYh0&t=23s)?

EDIT: ninja´d by Roger
EDIT2 ninja´d by another 100 people...

Konan
19-11-2017, 17:40
You mean this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zahylLQnYh0&t=23s)?

EDIT: ninja´d by Roger

yes...well he's got it three times now...which is a charm...LOL

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-11-2017, 17:45
Great :). All we need now is something from Brandon Pisz. If not, I'll disregard what he said, and head straight into Project Cars 2 to enjoy the 650 S GT3, lol.

PostBox981
19-11-2017, 17:50
Maybe Brandon is suffering the same problem as me: I feel way slower than I am in these supercars which leads to late brake points and finally to... well, you know what happens next.

I feel like it takes me ages until I get some decent lap times out of a road car, way longer than in any race car. Tried the current community challenge today (McL 570 on Snetterton 300), same problem.

cortextual
19-11-2017, 17:50
I'm not going to get into which is more realistic but in the interest of helping you spin less I will say that one big difference between AC and PC2 is carrying too much brake into a corner will really make the rear step out easier in PC2. Try braking earlier and coming up off the brakes as you enter the corner to shift some weight towards the rear. You can still trail brake but you wanna be very aware of the weight balance between front and rear. As long as you've eased up on the brakes enough to keep the rear planted you should still be able to turn in aggressively.

Konan
19-11-2017, 17:53
Maybe Brandon is suffering the same problem as me: I feel way slower than I am in these supercars which leads to late brake points and finally to... well, you know what happens next.

I feel like it takes me ages until I get some decent lap times out of a road car, way longer than in any race car. Tried the current community challenge today (McL 570 on Snetterton 300), same problem.

well i remember the effort i did driving the McLaren while the game was downloading...no further comment...LOL

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-11-2017, 17:54
Maybe Brandon is suffering the same problem as me: I feel way slower than I am in these supercars which leads to late brake points and finally to... well, you know what happens next.

I feel like it takes me ages until I get some decent lap times out of a road car, way longer than in any race car. Tried the current community challenge today (McL 570 on Snetterton 300), same problem.

It's the sense of speed. It's not as great as it was in Project Cars 1. I think the devs need to allow us to increase the camera's sensitivity to G-forces, to 200%. 150% will probably be a sweet spot for those who don't drive in VR.

rosko
19-11-2017, 18:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zahylLQnYh0

These are nice enough videos but most people who are not SMS fans just see it as promotional material. You see similar for iracing & r3e & even gt & forza. They all claim real drivers endorse their sim.

I posted a video earlier that didn't get much attention from Jan Seyffarth who seemed to think AC is close to reality. Then of course there is the interview with Wolfgan Reip who rates Rfactor2 over AC.

If you have anything like this then that is more valid to me than someone who is part of a promo, even the guy itt with the 650s is more valid.

sbtm
19-11-2017, 18:26
how can the actual engineer of the car not be valid enough to you? because he's seen in a video?

ShimonART
19-11-2017, 19:06
same as a racing driver that can be paid to say nice things about my product?

Konan
19-11-2017, 19:08
same as a racing driver that can be paid to say nice things about my product?

Than why would he say the physics are not right in the beginning?
Pay him twice?
Why would he compromise his job and credibility for a game?
I'm sure he makes tenfold of what SMS payed him...if they did in the first place...

Bealdor
19-11-2017, 19:23
same as a racing driver that can be paid to say nice things about my product?

The real race drivers working for SMS aren't paid to say nice things about the game but tell the devs what's realistic and what's not.
They weren't hired for advertisement. Same goes for the McLaren test driver.

rosko
19-11-2017, 21:08
The real race drivers working for SMS aren't paid to say nice things about the game but tell the devs what's realistic and what's not.
They weren't hired for advertisement. Same goes for the McLaren test driver.

Sure but everyone understands how biases works in psychology, they are never going to be seen as objective opinions apart from maybe pcars fans who are biased themselves. Plus he isn't testing other sims & comparing those to real life.

MrTulip
19-11-2017, 21:12
For the OP; what tyres did you test? How were the differentials setup? Both tyres and differentials can completely transform the handling of the car in PCARS2.

Especially when the automatic tyre selection in the default setups may have geared you up with either regular street tyre (Pzero / Summer) or pure racing tyre (Trofeo R / Semi slicks). The difference between these, or even the tyre in between those two (Corsa / Track) is huge.

And remember that you cannot trust that the same car would always have the same tyre selected the next time you visit the track. It really depends on weather forecast (maybe date and time too, I suppose). So it is best to set them manually.

Also those loose setups selected as default are just that; loose.

LukeC
19-11-2017, 21:36
Reply - I have set even traction control on, stability control on, I have to correct setup/tyres on and I for some reason still find myself spinning out and losing grip when I shouldn't be.

Assetto Corsa is praised for its road-car physics and car handling even by manufacturures themselves.

So why do they feel so different?

Because these are games you're talking about. It's not real life and never will be.

There is a lot more guess-work and educated guesses involved than the developers would have you believe, and with a few exceptions, close enough is good enough. And in the majority of cases an average best case scenario is what you've got in the game.

Mad Al
19-11-2017, 22:01
Can you tell me where those horses are hiding in my Corsa please? LOL

check the ashtray... little buggers will hide anywhere.

bmanic
19-11-2017, 22:17
@Brandon: The key is the differential. You can easily make all the supercars really "easy" to drive. Just adjust the differential and set TOE IN at the rear to 0.6 or more.. now you should not be able to spin out at all.

Is there a specific car you are struggling with? I can guarantee that it's possible to create a setup for it that makes it 100 times easier to drive (but it'll be a lot slower in the hands of advanced drivers).

It's worth noting that STABILITY CONTROL is really badly done in pCars 2 in my opinion. Turning it OFF will make all the road cars much easier to drive. The stability control is way better done in Assetto Corsa, which is one of the reasons the road cars there feel a lot better by default (ESC is enabled in most cars there and can not even be turned off in many).

GTsimms
19-11-2017, 22:25
Well, I think the road cars are near perfect. But, the tires still need some tweaking. But, they are still better than the other sims I have played!

biggbaddwolf
19-11-2017, 22:30
I have worked on a controller setting where I can handle most of the road cars pretty decently, however I can not find anything that works for the ZL-1 Camaro, or the Z06 Vette :( I KNOW for a fact those cars do not drive as poorly IRL as they do in this game, and I have heard people say they are fine to them, but I think they are blowing smoke up my (_I_), and nothing will ever be done about it, unfortunately :(

GTsimms
19-11-2017, 22:41
I have a friend, who drove the Camaro ingame, since he has a real one. he thought SMS did a really good job. But, his Camaro had different shifting points being a different year model for each gear!

biggbaddwolf
19-11-2017, 22:44
I have a friend, who drove the Camaro ingame, since he has a real one. he thought SMS did a really good job. But, his Camaro had different shifting points.

My nephew has one too, and while I have never drove it, I have rode with him in it, and if his drove as poorly as the one in the game I would have had him pulled over, and I would have walked home!!

GTsimms
19-11-2017, 22:49
Being on PS4, what setup are you using?

z3r0cool77
19-11-2017, 22:49
I only tried the camaro once right after release and it was nigh impossible to drive. Anything over half throttle sent it into spins even when going in a straight line. More powerful cars had much more grip and having driven more powerful cars RL I can say without a doubt it was way messed up. May have been improved since then though.

GTsimms
19-11-2017, 23:29
My nephew has one too, and while I have never drove it, I have rode with him in it, and if his drove as poorly as the one in the game I would have had him pulled over, and I would have walked home!!

You should be ok on the stable setup! Are you using OEM try the Rear Power Ramp at 70? The rest may be some tweaking with the setup. I just used an XBOX Controller with it at Nordschleife. It will need some tweaking, even the default OEM for a controller.

Roushman624
19-11-2017, 23:44
I have worked on a controller setting where I can handle most of the road cars pretty decently, however I can not find anything that works for the ZL-1 Camaro, or the Z06 Vette :( I KNOW for a fact those cars do not drive as poorly IRL as they do in this game, and I have heard people say they are fine to them, but I think they are blowing smoke up my (_I_), and nothing will ever be done about it, unfortunately :(
I promise you I can handle those cars with ease without any assists. I am on controller as well. I would be able to handle all cars even better with full wheel animations.

biggbaddwolf
19-11-2017, 23:50
I only tried the camaro once right after release and it was nigh impossible to drive. Anything over half throttle sent it into spins even when going in a straight line. More powerful cars had much more grip and having driven more powerful cars RL I can say without a doubt it was way messed up. May have been improved since then though.

Thank You!!!! I am experiencing the same thing with the Camaro, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Z06 Corvette, but it is still pretty much undrivable, but everyone thinks I am nuts!!

biggbaddwolf
19-11-2017, 23:53
You should be ok on the stable setup! Are you using OEM try the Rear Power Ramp at 70? The rest may be some tweaking with the setup. I just used an XBOX Controller with it at Nordschleife. It will need some tweaking, even the default OEM for a controller.

Yes I am generally using stable set-up, but I have tried them all with the same result :(

davidt33
20-11-2017, 00:18
.....I've had a McLaren driver (Alexander West) tell me personally on his own YouTube channel that the 650S GT3 car handles nothing like it does in real life compared to Project cars 2. He said PC2 and even Assetto have way too little control when turning and going over apexes. He said the car slips and loses traction way too easily.

Currently practising for a race night on Monday coming with this car: 1991 Merc-Benz 190E 2.5-16 DTM on Nurburgring GP.
This car maybe not in the same category to the one you're referring but it seems way too slippery negotiating corners on said track. And this with Season: Summer, Time: 12:00, Weather forecast: Clear. Tyres: Slick.
Literally driving me crazy. I would have expected it to have better traction normally especially under said conditions.

diesel97
20-11-2017, 00:47
You should be ok on the stable setup! Are you using OEM try the Rear Power Ramp at 70? The rest may be some tweaking with the setup. I just used an XBOX Controller with it at Nordschleife. It will need some tweaking, even the default OEM for a controller.

Whats the purpose of "stable set up" if they need be adjusted to make it drivable? I read this so many times "try the OEM but adjust XYZ"

I understand stable is for pad users but seems like a lot more times needs to be put into

F1_Racer68
20-11-2017, 14:02
Whats the purpose of "stable set up" if they need be adjusted to make it drivable? I read this so many times "try the OEM but adjust XYZ"

I understand stable is for pad users but seems like a lot more times needs to be put into

Because no setup will ever be "perfect" for every single driver/hardware combination.

OEM setups are how the cars are tuned as shipped to the dealership. But in the real world they are then driven with the controls built into the car, and driven at normal road speeds not track racing conditions.

I can tell you with no uncertainty that what feels like an amazing setup to me with my controller hardware feels like absolute crap to my team mate who is on a T300, and vice versa.

Urban Chaos 2.0
20-11-2017, 14:13
Additionally: If competitively racing any car, was easy, anyone could be a formula 1 champion. Driving any car is easy. Racing one, is another story. Easy for some, but very difficult for most. There is a reason there are SO MANY videos on Youtube with people crashing their Mustangs, Corvets, etc. They all think they know their cars... Until they f*** around and treat the throttle like a stepping stone in front of spectators. I promise you none of those people you see crashing their sports cars on Youtube expected or wanted that to happen.

You can't expect to jump into any car with any setup and do whatever you want to do with it, with no repercussions. Learn to master the car. If you're not comfortable, tweak the setup until you feel you've moulded the vehicle into what you desire. Within the car's ability of course. Some cars just won't do exactly what you want from them, no matter what you do. That's what can make driving them so much fun. They have their own personalities.

diesel97
20-11-2017, 14:15
Because no setup will ever be "perfect" for every single driver/hardware combination.

OEM setups are how the cars are tuned as shipped to the dealership. But in the real world they are then driven with the controls built into the car, and driven at normal road speeds not track racing conditions.

I can tell you with no uncertainty that what feels like an amazing setup to me with my controller hardware feels like absolute crap to my team mate who is on a T300, and vice versa.

Your statement is correct when you are looking for the best lap times and you are pushing. My point is stable set up should be stable for anybody at moderate speeds, and i'm not talking about going around at 30MPH

Zaskarspants
20-11-2017, 14:31
I found cars such as the 06 a real challenge at first and used the stable set up.
Now, after 150 or so hours in game I use the 06 with the loose setup and all driver aids off.

I made a video where I hang the back out and drift around corners at Hockenheim to demonstrate, but I appear to be unable to get a link for it to post it here ( xbox live limitations).

You have to race with a different mind set with the heavy and arguably overpowered for the tires, road cars.
The 06 can spin the rears in the first three gears so driving this car is all throttle, over-steer, off a bit of throttle, countersteer, hold, please don't snap back, repeat.

I am unqualified to say if it is like a ' real 06' but it clearly is not un driveable.

I play difficulty 70, agg 50.
G920, 100, 65, 50, 100
WM 0.

Zaskarspants
20-11-2017, 14:37
I find the heavy powerful road cars often benefit from being allowed to settle as they wallow about with the minimum of corrections being applied by the driver.

danowat
20-11-2017, 14:44
I find the heavy powerful road cars often benefit from being allowed to settle as they wallow about with the minimum of corrections being applied by the driver.

I think the biggest issue is the amount of yaw the road car/s get when accelerating hard in PC2, even with TC on, on a perfectly flat piece of tarmac.

There is still something not quite right about a number of cars in PC2.

Zaskarspants
20-11-2017, 15:56
I think the biggest issue is the amount of yaw the road car/s get when accelerating hard in PC2, even with TC on, on a perfectly flat piece of tarmac.

There is still something not quite right about a number of cars in PC2.

Or maybe they nailed it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvtWa2xjW18

Urban Chaos 2.0
20-11-2017, 16:14
I think the biggest issue is the amount of yaw the road car/s get when accelerating hard in PC2, even with TC on, on a perfectly flat piece of tarmac.

There is still something not quite right about a number of cars in PC2.

Again: Watch all the Corvette crash videos on Youtube. Take them as an opportunity to learn something from other peoples' pain, lol. People don't buy Corvettes for "practicality and driveability", and they sure hell don't tune them for that reason. It's all about those insane Horsepower figures, cool factor, and the bragging rights. Ask any Corvette owner what'll happen if they floor it, even at highway speeds. Maybe if they'd have spent more time with some driving sims they'd be better off, haha.

Bliman
20-11-2017, 16:26
The problem I have with roadcars. Is the way they are connected to the road. They seem to float. They also float from left to right. It felt the same in pc1 and that is not there in other cars. And also what is not helping is that you don't feel the speed in these cars.

rosko
20-11-2017, 16:39
The torque steer pulling off with turbo cars seems a bit strong imo with some cars. I really don't know tbh. Its interesting people are complaining of a lack of grip? Pcars 2 has too much grip. :confused: its too easy.

F1_Racer68
20-11-2017, 16:39
Again: Watch all the Corvette crash videos on Youtube. Take them as an opportunity to learn something from other peoples' pain, lol. People don't buy Corvettes for "practicality and driveability", and they sure hell don't tune them for that reason. It's all about those insane Horsepower figures, cool factor, and the bragging rights. Ask any Corvette owner what'll happen if they floor it, even at highway speeds. Maybe if they'd have spent more time with some driving sims they'd be better off, haha.

As a Ford guy, thanks for shifting the focus off of the far to excessive Mustang videos :D

danowat
20-11-2017, 20:01
Corvette using barn door engineering vs a highly tuned hyper car.

Apples / Oranges

RaceNut
20-11-2017, 20:06
I think the biggest issue is the amount of yaw the road car/s get when accelerating hard in PC2, even with TC on, on a perfectly flat piece of tarmac.

There is still something not quite right about a number of cars in PC2.

I find that I can sense the tail stepping out in AC/ AMS / rF2 far better than I can in PC2 through the FFB but, there are also less moments when corrections are needed in PC2. The more we rely on FFB to sense car-handling, the more we may struggle when it's lacking definition or clarity. It just doesn't seem as intuitive in PC2 as I'm used to. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy PC2 but, the number / type of cars that I drive in it may be more limited.

ramm21
20-11-2017, 22:34
Again: Watch all the Corvette crash videos on Youtube. Take them as an opportunity to learn something from other peoples' pain, lol. People don't buy Corvettes for "practicality and driveability", and they sure hell don't tune them for that reason. It's all about those insane Horsepower figures, cool factor, and the bragging rights. Ask any Corvette owner what'll happen if they floor it, even at highway speeds. Maybe if they'd have spent more time with some driving sims they'd be better off, haha.

Hi Corvette owner here. ALL Corvettes don't oversteer and crash when floored, even at "highway speeds"

I have a C5, good luck spinning the rears even in first gear from a roll. My friend has a C7 Z06, the TC light comes on when you floor it until you hit 3rd gear around 80mph.

And I got my C5 specifically as a weekend toy/track car because of NA engine and RWD (I had a turbo4 and AWD prior to that). But yeah, I can see how people think Corvettes are all about hp, the cool factor, bragging rights, being in a midlife crisis, small penis, etc... heard them all. Still funny when people try to pigeonhole owners of car X into a particular stereotype...

Spiderx
20-11-2017, 23:51
have a Civic from 2016 like the one in game and forget about it .... any resemblance with the real thing is mere coincidence and to the smart ass saying AC is rubbish... it may well be but in road cars among all the rubbish there is on market its the one that portraits the feel of a road car more accurately... pating SMS devs on the backs and not pointing them the wrongs wont make it a better game... sorry... everyone sayd the exact same thing regarding PCARS 1 ... thank god that the devs improved alot of stuff to a more believable product... they themselves knew thy did a poor job on the first place !

RaceNut
21-11-2017, 04:07
have a Civic from 2016 like the one in game and forget about it .... any resemblance with the real thing is mere coincidence and to the smart ass saying AC is rubbish... it may well be but in road cars among all the rubbish there is on market its the one that portraits the feel of a road car more accurately... pating SMS devs on the backs and not pointing them the wrongs wont make it a better game... sorry... everyone sayd the exact same thing regarding PCARS 1 ... thank god that the devs improved alot of stuff to a more believable product... they themselves knew thy did a poor job on the first place !

Better physics or not, I think AC does drive more intuitively but, I also know that the hardware makes a difference in how we perceive grip / traction-loss. For that reason, I feel like AC / AMS / rF2 are pretty comparable in how they feel. The FFB wheel being used can change that view really quickly; just lowering the FFB strength can have an immediate effect in how we perceive grip.

Given enough time, we can adapt to any title, any hardware - even without FFB; it's the differences that we notice when trying different titles and I think it's one of the reasons people prefer title-X over title-Y.

Ajvanho
21-11-2017, 04:46
Not sure anyone can help you based purely on "Hey ese, something brokeno". What kind of a setup are you running, how much have you changed, are you on a wheel or on a gamepad, when do you start feeling like you're losing grip or spinning out?

I heard the FW16 was amazing at street speeds, race speeds were where it needed tweaking.

There are 2 main parts of feedback, the feedback data, and the data it's based on.

resmania
21-11-2017, 07:33
Oversteer issue can be eliminated by using assists. Turn on the TC and use the value between .17 ~ .19
It will allow cars to slide and oversteer good enough to catch, which felt more believable than without it.
For me without TC, hyper cars are impossible to drive.

Anyway, PC2 is the first sim reproduced sharp turn-in behavior of light/sports cars, and I think that alone makes PC2 superior compare to other sim titles.

bmanic
21-11-2017, 12:21
I think the biggest issue is the amount of yaw the road car/s get when accelerating hard in PC2, even with TC on, on a perfectly flat piece of tarmac.

There is still something not quite right about a number of cars in PC2.

You can 100% tweak that "yaw" with the differential and suspension settings. There's nothing at all "wrong" anywhere, only preference. All of the cars that allow you to tweak the differential can be 100% neutered and made "easy" to drive so that it's virtually impossible to induce a crash by throttle-on oversteer or off-throttle engine braking oversteer.

EDIT: Reading this thread a few times shows what I've suspected a long time now. Only a fraction of the user base knows anything at all about car setups.. and only a small minority knows that car setups make a huge difference.. and a really small minority are actually what could be considered decently fast drivers. Just look at the timing tables of the community events.. only the top 50 or so dip down into laptimes that seem reasonable, everybody else (hundreds and hundreds of people) are way off pace. What does this tell us? There is so much weird speculation about what is "realistic" yet the vast majority don't know anything at all about neither driving nor car setups.

diesel97
21-11-2017, 12:47
You can 100% tweak that "yaw" with the differential and suspension settings. There's nothing at all "wrong" anywhere, only preference. All of the cars that allow you to tweak the differential can be 100% neutered and made "easy" to drive so that it's virtually impossible to induce a crash by throttle-on oversteer or off-throttle engine braking oversteer.

EDIT: Reading this thread a few times shows what I've suspected a long time now. Only a fraction of the user base knows anything at all about car setups.. and only a small minority knows that car setups make a huge difference.. and a really small minority are actually what could be considered decently fast drivers. Just look at the timing tables of the community events.. only the top 50 or so dip down into laptimes that seem reasonable, everybody else (hundreds and hundreds of people) are way off pace. What does this tell us? There is so much weird speculation about what is "realistic" yet the vast majority don't know anything at all about neither driving nor car setups.

This is my point why would SMS take the time to make a "stable sutup" and not do this?

F1_Racer68
21-11-2017, 13:43
You can 100% tweak that "yaw" with the differential and suspension settings. There's nothing at all "wrong" anywhere, only preference. All of the cars that allow you to tweak the differential can be 100% neutered and made "easy" to drive so that it's virtually impossible to induce a crash by throttle-on oversteer or off-throttle engine braking oversteer.

EDIT: Reading this thread a few times shows what I've suspected a long time now. Only a fraction of the user base knows anything at all about car setups.. and only a small minority knows that car setups make a huge difference.. and a really small minority are actually what could be considered decently fast drivers. Just look at the timing tables of the community events.. only the top 50 or so dip down into laptimes that seem reasonable, everybody else (hundreds and hundreds of people) are way off pace. What does this tell us? There is so much weird speculation about what is "realistic" yet the vast majority don't know anything at all about neither driving nor car setups.

Agree for the most part with you, but just want to point out that being a fast driver and being a good tuner are not tied together. I personally am not a very quick driver. I tend to be top 5 at best in my league in any given class. However, I have earned the reputation of being one of the 2 or 3 "go to" guys for tuning advice and setups in our league. My point being, I know how to tune a car very well. That doesn't automatically translate to being able to extract everything out of that car/tune for an alien lap time either though. Also want to add that using TT laptimes as a guide is also slightly flawed. TT lapping and racing are 2 very different things. There are certain "exploits" that can be used in TT lapping for that ultimate lap that would never work in a race situation (extremely closed off radiators and brake ducts for example). With that said, many of our league members will frequently destroy top TT times during our races.

@diesel97, a lot of it simply comes down to HOW the individual is trying to drive the car. "Stable" setup does not mean "on rails". It still requires a level of skill and proper driving technique (not to mention an understanding of vehicle dynamics). The old Forza/GT/NFS driving style of jam on the throttle, jam on the brakes, slam the steering left or right simply won't work. I am most definitely NOT saying this is how you drive. That is just a general statement, as I see that kind of driving quite frequently in online rooms. You can get away with it a bit in things like GT3 cars due to the aids and massive grip from the slicks, but in road cars with road tires, it's a whole other story. Going full throttle from a standing start on cold tires will make ANY high power rear wheel drive vehicle get squirrely.

cortextual
21-11-2017, 13:56
This is my point why would SMS take the time to make a "stable sutup" and not do this?

Well, it's a stable setup but it's still a racing setup. It has to be difficult to cater for all levels of skill, which is probably why stability and traction control exist. Ultimately if you find the car undrivable without assists you should probably turn them on, then perhaps try reducing them over time. It doesn't help that road cars have soft wallowing suspension setups that really make the weight shift around. These are also not sluggish road cars, they're cars that have been chosen to be put in a racing game, so they can move. Cars step out just as easily in AC under throttle in my experience, though on turn-in and mid corner it's easier to lose it in PC2.

I haven't tried using the automated setup feature that lets you tell a fictional engineer what changes you want to the setup but maybe that could also help, the result will probably be that it will open diff on power and lock it more on coast but you wont need to know which changes are being made. I think this system is supposed to allow people who don't know what they are doing to change the behaviour of the cars. If you don't consider yourself to be very good at setting up the cars perhaps give this a try.

diesel97
21-11-2017, 14:10
So let me go about this in a different way what does "stable" mean? I haven't done a side by side comparison of setups but just a quick example if I was building a stable setup I wouldn't have 100% brake pressure. What are the major differences in sutups? I just think it looks good on paper but was never implimated 100%

F1_Racer68
21-11-2017, 14:19
The primary point of the "Stable" vs "loose" setup from SMS was for Pad vs Wheel users.

The "Stable" setup is the one the game loads by default if you are using a gamepad. The "loose" setup is the one the game loads by default if you are using a wheel.

I've never actually done a side by side stare and compare on them to see what is different. I am only going by what has been explained in the forums I frequent, however in general the "stable" setup is set to provide a bit more understeer in order to compensate for the gamepad's quicker steering inputs.

Zaskarspants
21-11-2017, 14:29
I used stable with my wheel at first cos I was totally rubbish with loose.

Compared to loose stable is slower to turn in, understeery as mentioned above, better at holding a line, less grip on the limit.

After a week on stable I was faster by a few seconds with loose.

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 15:10
Hi Corvette owner here. ALL Corvettes don't oversteer and crash when floored, even at "highway speeds"

I have a C5, good luck spinning the rears even in first gear from a roll. My friend has a C7 Z06, the TC light comes on when you floor it until you hit 3rd gear around 80mph.

And I got my C5 specifically as a weekend toy/track car because of NA engine and RWD (I had a turbo4 and AWD prior to that). But yeah, I can see how people think Corvettes are all about hp, the cool factor, bragging rights, being in a midlife crisis, small penis, etc... heard them all. Still funny when people try to pigeonhole owners of car X into a particular stereotype...

Corvettes are very hard to come by in my country, so I've not had the chance to experience one. However, from what I've seen in youtube videos and the various complaints and opinions people have expressed on forums, the prevailing opinion seems to be that they are "over-powered", especially in the first three gears, and will sway from side to side on throttle even at speed, unless a certain electronic driving mode is engaged.



have a Civic from 2016 like the one in game

What exactly does that mean? To what spec has your civic been built, what kind of tyres does it have, how is it set up, and in which way does it differ from the one in PC2 when the OEM setup is loaded in-game? From what I've experienced, Assetto Corsa is in every way, rubbish, and even Project Cars 1 had much better physics. The only reason anyone might prefer Assetto Corsa to Project Cars 1, is out-of the-box FFB. Fake, unrealistic FFB, but it feels nice to many people. As far as physics goes, AC's is absolute trash. The problem with Project Cars 1, was the default vehicle setups. They were, to most people, very bad. But once the correct setup changes were made, most found the cars to handle quite well. Driving any car in Assetto Corsa is like driving on rails. It's ridiculous. The tyres do not grip roads properly in any car, and the suspension is strangely unreactive to everything. For example: Watch a quick lap of F1 2017 around any circuit, and then watch a similar lap with Assetto Corsa's Ferrari F1 car. You'll notice they almost look the same: Unrealistic. The one thing the two videos will have in common is bland, unresponsive suspension behaviour. Watch a similar video of real life, rFactor 2, or Project Cars however, and you'll see similarities among them. As for iRacing, those cars are just less-stable versions of Project Cars 1. The only people who praise iRacing's physics (the tyres especially) are those financially invested in it.

AC players who hated Project Cars, I have always found to be people who:

1) Love the informative FFB in AC
2) Hate having to set anything up. They think what feels nice to them, is what should feel nice to everyone else.

I have not driven any car with tyres and suspension that behave the way they do in Assetto Corsa. Not any car. The closest vehicle to a somewhat decent true-to-life recreation was the Nissan GTR. Doesn't feel quite like the one's I've driven, but I found it to be good enough. Certainly that's only because Nissan GTRs have very stiff suspension setups. Something which would suit ACs bad suspension model. The tyres though, were even further off from what I'd ever expect from a "sim", even when accounting for imperfections. Then there's the BMW M4 I talked about in a previous post. That, I truly could not relate to any of my experiences. The car was an under-steering mess, with brakes that didn't engage themselves realistically, and a chassis that could not accommodate fast direction changes the way an actual M4 can.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:11
Great :). All we need now is something from Brandon Pisz. If not, I'll disregard what he said, and head straight into Project Cars 2 to enjoy the 650 S GT3, lol.

Im so sorry guys, Im new to Reddit and I didn't realize the conversation has multiple pages 😂 So sorry! One second.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:16
Corvettes are very hard to come by in my country, so I've not had the chance to experience one. However, from what I've seen in youtube videos and the various complaints and opinions people have expressed on forums, the prevailing opinion seems to be that they are "over-powered", especially in the first three gears, and will sway from side to side on throttle even at speed, unless a certain electronic driving mode is engaged.




What exactly does that mean? To what spec has your civic been built, what kind of tyres does it have, how is it set up, and in which way does it differ from the one in PC2 when the OEM setup is loaded in-game? From what I've experienced, Assetto Corsa is in every way, rubbish, and even Project Cars 1 had much better physics. The only reason anyone might prefer Assetto Corsa to Project Cars 1, is out-of the-box FFB. Fake, unrealistic FFB, but it feels nice to many people. As far as physics goes, AC's is absolute trash. The problem with Project Cars 1, was the default vehicle setups. They were, to most people, very bad. But once the correct setup changes were made, most found the cars to handle quite well. Driving any car in Assetto Corsa is like driving on rails. It's ridiculous. The tyres do not grip roads properly in any car, and the suspension is strangely unreactive to everything. For example: Watch a quick lap of F1 2017 around any circuit, and then watch a similar lap with Assetto Corsa's Ferrari F1 car. You'll notice they almost look the same: Unrealistic. The one thing the two videos will have in common is bland, unresponsive suspension behaviour. Watch a similar video of real life, rFactor 2, or Project Cars however, and you'll see similarities among them. As for iRacing, those cars are just less-stable versions of Project Cars 1. The only people who praise iRacing's physics (the tyres especially) are those financially invested in it.

AC players who hated Project Cars, I have always found to be people who:

1) Love the informative FFB in AC
2) Hate having to set anything up. They think what feels nice to them, is what should feel nice to everyone else.

I have not driven any car with tyres and suspension that behave the way they do in Assetto Corsa. Not any car. The closest vehicle to a somewhat decent true-to-life recreation was the Nissan GTR. Doesn't feel quite like the one's I've driven, but I found it to be good enough. Certainly that's only because Nissan GTRs have very stiff suspension setups. Something which would suit ACs bad suspension model. The tyres though, were even further off from what I'd ever expect from a "sim", even when accounting for imperfections. Then there's the BMW M4 I talked about in a previous post. That, I truly could not relate to any of my experiences. The car was an under-steering mess, with brakes that didn't engage themselves realistically, and a chassis that could not accommodate fast direction changes the way an actual M4 can.

This is where he states that Assetto Corsa is what he uses to practice. Go down to the 9th comment or so and find "SaNTA CruZ//"'s question about sims.
Here -> https://youtu.be/BV2QBJ_KpVA

bmanic
21-11-2017, 15:18
This is my point why would SMS take the time to make a "stable sutup" and not do this?

Because the "Stable" setup is for the most part perfectly STABLE for people who know how to drive. Aka "the minority" it seems.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:20
This is where he states that Assetto Corsa is what he uses to practice. Go down to the 9th comment or so and find "SaNTA CruZ//"'s question about sims.
Here -> https://youtu.be/BV2QBJ_KpVA

Here's the other video where he states it doesn't feel anything like the real one. Again, find "SaNTA CruZ//"
-> https://youtu.be/u-zzF_m-lOE

Zaskarspants
21-11-2017, 15:21
Maybe Pcars2 needs an arcade mode ( runs away ....) :-)

diesel97
21-11-2017, 15:21
Because the "Stable" setup is for the most part perfectly STABLE for people who know how to drive. Aka "the minority" it seems.

Never said I couldn't or cant but thats for your detailed input superstar.

Good break down

I didn't know TT/ hot lapping specialist means you are a great race car driver

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 15:23
This is where he states that Assetto Corsa is what he uses to practice. Go down to the 9th comment or so and find "SaNTA CruZ//"'s question about sims.
Here -> https://youtu.be/BV2QBJ_KpVA

He said he hates PC1 and sometimes uses Assetto Corsa to learn/re-learn some tracks, but he doesn't mention PC2. He didn't mention rF2 either, but I would have liked for him to do so. I like rF2, and if Project Cars didn't exist, I'd still be playing it. rF2 is modding platform though. For that reason, some cars might not be that good.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:23
Just click the links, you'll see where Alexander West states PC2 "isn't a SIM" and that the two cars he tried *McLaren 650S GT3* and *BAC MONO* feel/behave nothing like the real one. These aren't my words, they're his btw :)

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:24
He said he hates PC1 and sometimes uses Assetto Corsa to learn/re-learn some tracks, but he doesn't mention PC2. He didn't mention rF2 either, but I would have liked for him to do so. I like rF2, and if Project Cars didn't exist, I'd still be playing it. rF2 is modding platform though. For that reason, some cars might not be that good.

He said he briefly tried PC2 and drove the 650S GT3 in game as well as the BAC MONO and he stated that they don't feel anything like real life. He was talking about PC2, not 1.

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 15:26
He said he briefly tried PC2 and drove the 650S GT3 in game as well as the BAC MONO and he stated that they don't feel anything like real life. He was talking about PC2, not 1.

No, he didn't say anything of the sort. If he did, it's not there now. There's no mention of Project Cars 2 anywhere there apart from his expectations that it would be better than Project Cars 1.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:30
No, he didn't say anything of the sort. If he did, it's not there now. There's no mention of Project Cars 2 anywhere there apart from his expectations that it would be better than Project Cars 1.

Here's a new link, try this. Find "SaNTA CruZ//"'s comment, I ask about PC2 and only PC2, he says he tried it briefly and the BAC MONO and 650S GT3 feel nothing like irl.
https://youtu.be/u-zzF_m-lOE

Spiderx
21-11-2017, 15:32
Corvettes are very hard to come by in my country, so I've not had the chance to experience one. However, from what I've seen in youtube videos and the various complaints and opinions people have expressed on forums, the prevailing opinion seems to be that they are "over-powered", especially in the first three gears, and will sway from side to side on throttle even at speed, unless a certain electronic driving mode is engaged.




What exactly does that mean? To what spec has your civic been built, what kind of tyres does it have, how is it set up, and in which way does it differ from the one in PC2 when the OEM setup is loaded in-game? From what I've experienced, Assetto Corsa is in every way, rubbish, and even Project Cars 1 had much better physics. The only reason anyone might prefer Assetto Corsa to Project Cars 1, is out-of the-box FFB. Fake, unrealistic FFB, but it feels nice to many people. As far as physics goes, AC's is absolute trash. The problem with Project Cars 1, was the default vehicle setups. They were, to most people, very bad. But once the correct setup changes were made, most found the cars to handle quite well. Driving any car in Assetto Corsa is like driving on rails. It's ridiculous. The tyres do not grip roads properly in any car, and the suspension is strangely unreactive to everything. For example: Watch a quick lap of F1 2017 around any circuit, and then watch a similar lap with Assetto Corsa's Ferrari F1 car. You'll notice they almost look the same: Unrealistic. The one thing the two videos will have in common is bland, unresponsive suspension behaviour. Watch a similar video of real life, rFactor 2, or Project Cars however, and you'll see similarities among them. As for iRacing, those cars are just less-stable versions of Project Cars 1. The only people who praise iRacing's physics (the tyres especially) are those financially invested in it.

AC players who hated Project Cars, I have always found to be people who:

1) Love the informative FFB in AC
2) Hate having to set anything up. They think what feels nice to them, is what should feel nice to everyone else.

I have not driven any car with tyres and suspension that behave the way they do in Assetto Corsa. Not any car. The closest vehicle to a somewhat decent true-to-life recreation was the Nissan GTR. Doesn't feel quite like the one's I've driven, but I found it to be good enough. Certainly that's only because Nissan GTRs have very stiff suspension setups. Something which would suit ACs bad suspension model. The tyres though, were even further off from what I'd ever expect from a "sim", even when accounting for imperfections. Then there's the BMW M4 I talked about in a previous post. That, I truly could not relate to any of my experiences. The car was an under-steering mess, with brakes that didn't engage themselves realistically, and a chassis that could not accommodate fast direction changes the way an actual M4 can.

The Troll Force is strong in you "the PC1 was better sentence"...you can criticize alot of stuff in AC , handling is not one of them... regarding my statement of the CIVIC...ill repeat its EXACTLY the one in game a civic Type R from 2016 as you get it from the Dealership... its wrong in so many ways that i cant even start to comment on how they Relate....

bmanic
21-11-2017, 15:34
Agree for the most part with you, but just want to point out that being a fast driver and being a good tuner are not tied together.

I was never implying this nor even trying to imply it. My point was that the chance that people who complain about realism or cars being undrivable have a very high probability of simply being very bad at the game. This is based on observation and hard data from the various community events.

Take the recent McLaren 570S time trial at Snetterton 300 for instance: The top 50 were within 1:52 to 1:57.xxx laptimes. 1:57.xxx which I consider to be the cutoff point of "decent time => person knows what he/she is doing". Anything slower shows major issues like

A) no idea of optimal racing line (immediately reduces laptimes by several seconds)

B) completely overdrives the car and almost always is out of control (immediately reduces laptimes) which usually leads to point A)

C) drives way under the limit...

If I "cruise" leisurely around the track, that is, I'm not trying to push at all, I seem to beat the time of 90% of people in the time trials. Keep in mind that I am NOT a fast driver by any stretch of the imagination (you for instance are a much faster driver than me).

Now why is this significant? If a person is ridiculously slow and also combines this with zero car setup knowledge, he/she can have an opinion on "realism" or what is or isn't broken with the physics, but that opinion is worth virtually nothing. Same way as a person with only junior high physics can have an opinion on quantum mechanics or how the world works.. but this opinion is probably not worth much to an actual scientist or even an enthusiast in that scene.

So, the "stable" and "loose" setups that are provided drive well enough for most enthusiasts and decent drivers. The chance that people complaining here are completely clueless is very high. Thus they do not represent the target for the setups that were provided. I know this may be harsh reading for a lot of people but facts are facts. Just look at the various community event times. I have literally no clue at all how so many people can only manage a 2 minute+ time around Snetterton 300 in a McLaren 570S. It is frankly impossible to me.. yet those are the kinds of times that the vast majority seem to manage.

Add to this the Dunning Kruger effect and we get the current climate in simracing.

bmanic
21-11-2017, 15:39
The Troll Force is strong in you "the PC1 was better sentence"...you can criticize alot of stuff in AC , handling is not one of them... regarding my statement of the CIVIC...ill repeat its EXACTLY the one in game a civic Type R from 2016 as you get it from the Dealership... its wrong in so many ways that i cant even start to comment on how they Relate....

There are and have been plenty of cars in AC that were completely overhauled and changed physics from the initial pre-release to the later patches. Why would that happen if they were "perfect"? Hint: They weren't.

You are completely blinded by fanboyism if you think AC has handling nailed on all cars. That is not at all the case. For instance, the BMW Z4 I had for a short period of time as a daily driver handled abysmally in AC for over a year.. until they finally fixed it with the differential and tire updates around late 2016. It was basically broken before that.

Konan
21-11-2017, 15:41
blinded by fanboyism

...no need for that please...

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 15:42
...no need for that please...

Thanks Konan, I'd like to keep this mature.

F1_Racer68
21-11-2017, 15:49
I was never implying this nor even trying to imply it. My point was that the chance that people who complain about realism or cars being undrivable have a very high probability of simply being very bad at the game. This is based on observation and hard data from the various community events.

Take the recent McLaren 570S time trial at Snetterton 300 for instance: The top 50 were within 1:52 to 1:57.xxx laptimes. 1:57.xxx which I consider to be the cutoff point of "decent time => person knows what he/she is doing". Anything slower shows major issues like

A) no idea of optimal racing line (immediately reduces laptimes by several seconds)

B) completely overdrives the car and almost always is out of control (immediately reduces laptimes) which usually leads to point A)

C) drives way under the limit...

If I "cruise" leisurely around the track, that is, I'm not trying to push at all, I seem to beat the time of 90% of people in the time trials. Keep in mind that I am NOT a fast driver by any stretch of the imagination (you for instance are a much faster driver than me).

Now why is this significant? If a person is ridiculously slow and also combines this with zero car setup knowledge, he/she can have an opinion on "realism" or what is or isn't broken with the physics, but that opinion is worth virtually nothing. Same way as a person with only junior high physics can have an opinion on quantum mechanics or how the world works.. but this opinion is probably not worth much to an actual scientist or even an enthusiast in that scene.

So, the "stable" and "loose" setups that are provided drive well enough for most enthusiasts and decent drivers. The chance that people complaining here are completely clueless is very high. Thus they do not represent the target for the setups that were provided. I know this may be harsh reading for a lot of people but facts are facts. Just look at the various community event times. I have literally no clue at all how so many people can only manage a 2 minute+ time around Snetterton 300 in a McLaren 570S. It is frankly impossible to me.. yet those are the kinds of times that the vast majority seem to manage.

Add to this the Dunning Kruger effect and we get the current climate in simracing.

Apologies if I misread the post.

As I said, I agree with most of what you have stated, and completely agree with everything in this most recent post.

Well, except for 1 thing..... I'm far from "fast" :D :D

On average my league race times would put me in the top 15 - 20 on the TT leaderboards. While some might think that's fast, it's all relative to what you are comparing yourself to. When I find myself running lap times 2 - 3 seconds off of what our front runners are putting up, I consider myself painfully slow. :D :D

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 15:57
There are and have been plenty of cars in AC that were completely overhauled and changed physics from the initial pre-release to the later patches. Why would that happen if they were "perfect"? Hint: They weren't.

You are completely blinded by fanboyism if you think AC has handling nailed on all cars. That is not at all the case. For instance, the BMW Z4 I had for a short period of time as a daily driver handled abysmally in AC for over a year.. until they finally fixed it with the differential and tire updates around late 2016. It was basically broken before that.

Lol. People who love AC, just love AC. they don't need any evidence to the contrary. In their eyes 'it's the best sim of all time', and that opinion remains the same after every major update to the game, haha. This is the reason people at all levels are arguing about which sim is best. Some pro drivers prefer rF2, some prefer iRacing, some prefer Project Cars, and some prefer Assetto Corsa. Doesn't matter what you tell them, because there's something specific to their sim of choice that they just prefer. Doesn't matter how realistic that something may or may not be. Being an Assetto Corsa fan, Spiderex will call anyone who doesn't like that rubbish physics engine in AC a "troll", and yet that's exactly what my REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES have shown me about Assetto Corsa. You will never convince me that the BMW M4 in Assetto Corsa is realistic. Never. Because it isn't. It just isn't. It does not handle like the real thing, and I should know. I've driven the real thing.

As said: Each and every person who loves AC, has been in my experience, someone who thinks things in life should never be tinkered with and set up properly. To them: 'The way it is, is the way it is, and if it needs to be tuned by the user, there's something wrong'. Can you image how terrible race cars would perform if the drivers refused to make setup changes? You'd have one group of people calling a certain race car "rubbish" simply because it's set up differently from what their personal tastes would dictate. My issue with Assetto Corsa though, is not a matter of setup. I've made various alterations to setup, and found the problem to lie in one area. The simulation model is trash. Period. Unlike the AC fans who will bash other sims, I will at least make changes, and see how those changes affect the experience.

cortextual
21-11-2017, 16:08
As said: Each and every person who loves AC, has been in my experience, someone who thinks things in life should never be tinkered with and set up properly. To them: 'The way it is, is the way it is, and if it needs to be tuned by the user, there's something wrong'. Can you image how terrible race cars would perform if the drivers refused to make setup changes? You'd have one group of people calling a certain race car "rubbish" simply because it's set up differently from what their personal tastes would dictate. My issue with Assetto Corsa though, is not a matter of setup. I've made various alterations to setup, and found the problem to lie in one area. The simulation model is trash. Period. Unlike the AC fans who will bash other sims, I will at least make changes, and see how those changes affect the experience.

I've agreed with some of the things you've said but this is not cool. I'm a big fan of AC and PC2 and I love messing with car setups for hours. So clearly it's not "each and every person who loves AC".

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 16:10
I've agreed with some of the things you've said but this is not cool. I'm a big fan of AC and PC2 and I love messing with car setups for hours. So clearly it's not "each and every person who loves AC".

Sorry, I should clarify what I mean:

I mean: every person who loves AC and bashes other sims. In my experience, people like that tend to fit into that box.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 16:16
Sorry, I should clarify what I mean:

I mean: every person who loves AC and bashes other sims. In my experience, people like that tend to fit into that box.

Have you clicked the links to see what West had to say?

cortextual
21-11-2017, 16:35
Have you clicked the links to see what West had to say?

It's nice to get feedback from a real driver but there are more questions that need to be asked to judge what he said well. He doesn't say if it's the handling of the cars, or the feeling through the wheel (which sucks until you turn damping off). He doesn't go into much detail at all but it is definitely interesting. He says the curbs are weird in AC, which is interesting too, there's definitely a big difference in the curbs between AC and PC2.

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 16:39
Have you clicked the links to see what West had to say?

Yes, and he seems like the exact type of person I've described. He jumped into it, didn't set anything up, and left. He also hasn't tried any sim apart from Project Cars and Assetto Corsa. Why? Especially since you told him he'd love rF2. Not that he needed you to tell him that, of course. I moved from rF2 to Project Cars because they felt very similar to me, but quite a few of the mods in rF2 weren't that good. Not to me, anyway. The physics engine is there, but such a reliance on community-made mods has turned into a drawback.

Now regarding Alexander West: The fact that he gets to track some expensive race cars doesn't mean he's any different from someone who just loves AC. I remember watching someone track a slightly modified Japanese car on Youtube, and I asked him in the comments section which sim he preferred. He told me he liked Assetto Corsa. When I asked him why, he told me it had the 'most realistic physics'. I politely told him that I disagreed, and felt Project Cars was superior. He then replied: 'I drive cars in real life, so I know what I'm saying', or something to that effect. I then let him know that I've also tracked a quite a few cars, and that I was open to a proper discussion about why he preferred one sim, and I preferred another. He went radio silent. Just didn't respond. I even asked why he would suddenly be avoiding conversation. Still no response. He knows he will have to defend his reasoning against someone who will know when he's talking B.S.

Look, I'm not the only car enthusiast who loves Project Cars. Look here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMvV_WYrJyM&t=87s
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KBssVh-f9o
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J59_CDUc6eI&t=297s
Listen to this as well: https://soundcloud.com/autosport/project-cars-2-a-game-for-the-real-racing-fan

Spiderx
21-11-2017, 16:43
There are and have been plenty of cars in AC that were completely overhauled and changed physics from the initial pre-release to the later patches. Why would that happen if they were "perfect"? Hint: They weren't.

You are completely blinded by fanboyism if you think AC has handling nailed on all cars. That is not at all the case. For instance, the BMW Z4 I had for a short period of time as a daily driver handled abysmally in AC for over a year.. until they finally fixed it with the differential and tire updates around late 2016. It was basically broken before that.

i Never said they where perfect, i just said they are closer to reality then the road cars in PC2, also only replied to the "is rubish" sentence.... im far from a fanboy, i have them all including pc1 and 2.... if you feel that the road cars are perfect in PC2 fine, just dont expect meto agree with you... LMP2 cars and GT cars and some touring cars are leaps and bounds better then PC1 , Road cars and a few older cars feel far from the same level.... the ones that do feel right i had these same discussions regarding PC1 and yet they changed alot in PC2, alot of the questions before PC2 launch hit always the same 2 key questions, how is handling and FFB...you know why ? because they where horrible on the first one bar a few cars ....

Zaskarspants
21-11-2017, 16:55
I often nag my friends to have a go on my rig.
What I have noticed is that those who can drive feel very comfortable with driving Pcars2 where they struggled with other sims and pcars1.
This is my feeling too. To be blunt, Pcars1 felt like driving a sim, pcars2 feels like driving a car.

Sadly I do not own Assetto but for me Pcars2 is a very believable enjoyable game.

rosko
21-11-2017, 17:29
Patch on the horizon;), most of this discussion could be moot. Thats why i'm not playing it as i will start to get frustrated with a car & it all might change or it might not. but i'm sitting on my hands for now.

MrTulip
21-11-2017, 17:32
There are and have been plenty of cars in AC that were completely overhauled and changed physics from the initial pre-release to the later patches. Why would that happen if they were "perfect"? Hint: They weren't.

You are completely blinded by fanboyism if you think AC has handling nailed on all cars. That is not at all the case. For instance, the BMW Z4 I had for a short period of time as a daily driver handled abysmally in AC for over a year.. until they finally fixed it with the differential and tire updates around late 2016. It was basically broken before that.

This exactly (not the remark about fanboyism though, I think we all are ;) )

There always has been this long standing thinking in sim crowd that something we have in our hands just now is near perfect, always was like that and will stay the pinnacle of it in the future, like progress should stop just there.

This thinking goes against sense in retroperspective; the amount of tyre iterations alone for AC, iRacing, rFactor 2 and PCARS1 / 2 during their practical development, release and after market has been huge. How could something have been so flawless before that it had to be rewritten later again?

It is about realities and tradeoffs. All of these games have huge amount of cars and no way to make sure that every single one of them drives like a real thing. All of these have some cars with clearly broken handling (or they simply left one or more type of cars and racing completely out like iRacing).

Taking one car (or ten) in a simulation that has hundred of them, and putting all arguments behind that is not solid practice. All of these car sims can be proven faulty if we did that.

In Brandon's original point (and post #10) I'd say that it is not a good practice to use GT3 class racing car and driver as an example in the thread discussing road car handling, as these two are really not comparable at all. In this context it'd be more interested to hear what Alexander West thought was wrong with BAC Mono as it is a road legal street car, although so radically different that it hardly is a good comparison for the rest of the road cars in the game.

I don't think that West did justice to PCARS2 as a complete product, when he simply stated that he lost interest to it after testing 650S GT3 and BAC. But I fully understand his view as he is likely to spend his time with the sim that he finds simulating the cars he drives best, and Assetto Corsa it was. Maybe SMS should go to talks with him about that. :)

Brandon mentioned few cars that have too little grip in PCARS2, and one of them was LaFerrari. I did some lapping with it in Algarve without assists, and I did find it much harder to drive than my absolute favorite McLaren 720S. I don't know what kind handling would be realistic for Ferrari, but laptimes were good, so overall grip is there. I just had to be very very precise with the throttle.

Porsche 911 GT3 RS, however, is incredibly steady as are all almost all Lamborghinis in the game. These make me feel that we are playing completely different game, especially when AC in my experience is the one with fiddlier reactions to steering and pedal inputs.

RaceNut
21-11-2017, 18:01
I'd put AC / AMS / rF2 in the same Sim-bucket, PC2 in another and leave PC1 out of the comparison. I find the first three titles have far more in common in regard to handling / FFB than with PC2 but, perhaps that's influenced by hardware.

In regard to "Road Cars" requiring setup changes to drive realistically; how much can one change the setup on a Road car? Shouldn't a Simulated Road car handle much like it's RL counterpart straight out of the box?

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 19:00
Yes, and he seems like the exact type of person I've described. He jumped into it, didn't set anything up, and left. He also hasn't tried any sim apart from Project Cars and Assetto Corsa. Why? Especially since you told him he'd love rF2. Not that he needed you to tell him that, of course. I moved from rF2 to Project Cars because they felt very similar to me, but quite a few of the mods in rF2 weren't that good. Not to me, anyway. The physics engine is there, but such a reliance on community-made mods has turned into a drawback.

Now regarding Alexander West: The fact that he gets to track some expensive race cars doesn't mean he's any different from someone who just loves AC. I remember watching someone track a slightly modified Japanese car on Youtube, and I asked him in the comments section which sim he preferred. He told me he liked Assetto Corsa. When I asked him why, he told me it had the 'most realistic physics'. I politely told him that I disagreed, and felt Project Cars was superior. He then replied: 'I drive cars in real life, so I know what I'm saying', or something to that effect. I then let him know that I've also tracked a quite a few cars, and that I was open to a proper discussion about why he preferred one sim, and I preferred another. He went radio silent. Just didn't respond. I even asked why he would suddenly be avoiding conversation. Still no response. He knows he will have to defend his reasoning against someone who will know when he's talking B.S.

Look, I'm not the only car enthusiast who loves Project Cars. Look here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMvV_WYrJyM&t=87s
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KBssVh-f9o
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J59_CDUc6eI&t=297s
Listen to this as well: https://soundcloud.com/autosport/project-cars-2-a-game-for-the-real-racing-fan

There are many reasons as to why someone doesn't want to reply to someone else on the internet and assuming its because the person was talking bs is just stupid and childish on your part. I do find it odd how the only people who drive/race in real life and say PC2 has realistic physics is thrown in front of a camera and handed a check from SMS. It's a marketing technique and I'm not saying PC2 is unrealistic. I'd just like a logical explanation.

Konan
21-11-2017, 19:05
I do find it odd how the only people who drive/race in real life and say PC2 has realistic physics is thrown in front of a camera and handed a check from SMS.

...this statement has already been contradicted....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57577-More-realistic-road-car-physics!&p=1426050&viewfull=1#post1426050

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 19:21
...this statement has already been contradicted....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57577-More-realistic-road-car-physics!&p=1426050&viewfull=1#post1426050

If you're referring to the video in that thread, it's completely irrelevant. Anybody will say anything in front of a camera for money. Its called *marketing*!

eracerhead
21-11-2017, 19:26
I suppose no one's word is worth listening to then. In which case I'll just enjoy the game based on my own impressions..

RoccoTTS
21-11-2017, 19:32
I suppose no one's word is worth listening to then. In which case I'll just enjoy the game based on my own impressions..

And that sir are very wise words :encouragement:

Roger Prynne
21-11-2017, 19:32
There are many reasons as to why someone doesn't want to reply to someone else on the internet and assuming its because the person was talking bs is just stupid and childish on your part. I do find it odd how the only people who drive/race in real life and say PC2 has realistic physics is thrown in front of a camera and handed a check from SMS. It's a marketing technique and I'm not saying PC2 is unrealistic. I'd just like a logical explanation.


If you're referring to the video in that thread, it's completely irrelevant. Anybody will say anything in front of a camera for money. Its called *marketing*!

You really don't have any idea do you.
If you know those things as fact please enlighten us.

ShimonART
21-11-2017, 19:34
I suppose no one's word is worth listening to then. In which case I'll just enjoy the game based on my own impressions..

smartest comment of the year.

its just a matter of taste, enjoy ANY sim for what it is and stop fighting for what's more realistic ffs...

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 19:40
You really don't have any idea do you.
If you know those things as fact please enlighten us.

If you want to be stubborn, go somewhere else. I'm not putting up with you if you're gonna deny it. All companies pay people to say nice things about their product. Like TV commercials, they hire actors who say positive things about what they're trying to sell. Gaming companies (especially among the racing community) will hire the best they can find and pay them to say things that the company wants them to say. They're a company, they want to make money, they get very influential people (like Lewis/Nick Hamilton) to say what the community wants to here. Its called MARKETING! (M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G). [Mark-et-ing]. Again, I'm not saying its unrealistic or that I dislike the game, I daily play PC2 (mainly GT3 online races).

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 19:46
I do find it odd how the only people who drive/race in real life and say PC2 has realistic physics is thrown in front of a camera and handed a check from SMS.

That's not true at all, and seems awfully biased. The links I presented are an example. I know literally ONE person who likes Assetto Corsa, and he's the least experienced driver of among us. Everybody else, is in agreement with me that it's rubbish. It's got some very pleasant FFB in some cars. The Ferrari F1 car for example. But FFB IS NOT PHYSICS. What I can say about everyone who likes Assetto Corsa, is that they like the FFB. That's what keeps them going back to it. You know I asked Marcel Pfister (he makes Youtube videos as well) why he likes Assetto Corsa, and he was at least honest enough to tell me the truth: FFB. Literally, FFB is the only reason he likes Assetto Corsa. That, and the fact that the cars work well (for him) "out of the box". In project Cars 2 he had to load OEM setups, tinker with FFB, etc. I'm going on an adventure drive sometime soon. I'll try and record some gopro footage, and hopefully can squeeze in some track time with an exotic car or two. I'll see which of the cars I try are featured in either Project Cars 2 or Assetto Corsa, and I'll use the footage (alongside AC/PC2 footage) to indicate which one of the two games is more true -to-life, and for which cars.

Bealdor
21-11-2017, 19:50
If you want to be stubborn, go somewhere else. I'm not putting up with you if you're gonna deny it. All companies pay people to say nice things about their product. Like TV commercials, they hire actors who say positive things about what they're trying to sell. Gaming companies (especially among the racing community) will hire the best they can find and pay them to say things that the company wants them to say. They're a company, they want to make money, they get very influential people (like Lewis/Nick Hamilton) to say what the community wants to here. Its called MARKETING! (M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G). [Mark-et-ing]. Again, I'm not saying its unrealistic or that I dislike the game, I daily play PC2 (mainly GT3 online races).

Nobody is denying that this marketing stuff exists.
What we're telling you is that this is not the reason why those drivers were hired by SMS and that their role was a different one during development.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 19:54
Nobody is denying that this marketing stuff exists.
What we're telling you is that this is not the reason why those drivers were hired by SMS and that their role was a different one during development.

Great! What I'm saying is, those drivers were hired by SMS to make that promotional video to make the game look good on its initial release.

eracerhead
21-11-2017, 19:59
aaaaand *plonk*..

Bealdor
21-11-2017, 20:00
Great! What I'm saying is, those drivers were hired by SMS to make that promotional video to make the game look good on its initial release.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56903-Comparison-of-GT-Sport-Pcars-2-Cars-feel-different&p=1416402&viewfull=1#post1416402

Sankyo
21-11-2017, 20:01
Great! What I'm saying is, those drivers were hired by SMS to make that promotional video to make the game look good on its initial release.
And you're wrong about that, as they were hired to give feedback during the whole of pC2's development and that's what they did together with the people who were part of WMD2 the past years.

Konan
21-11-2017, 20:01
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56903-Comparison-of-GT-Sport-Pcars-2-Cars-feel-different&p=1416402&viewfull=1#post1416402

shame i can't "like" that more than once....

edit: not to rub it in but because i couldn't find that quote and needed it to prove my point...:cool:

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 20:07
And you're wrong about that, as they were hired to give feedback during the whole of pC2's development and that's what they did together with the people who were part of WMD2 the past years.

And that may be true, but again they're a lucrative business so trust just isn't there.

Bealdor
21-11-2017, 20:18
And that may be true, but again they're a lucrative business so trust just isn't there.

If you had seen their feedback posts at the WMD2 forums over the last two years, you'd think differently.

Roger Prynne
21-11-2017, 20:18
To be honest you're entitled to believe whatever you like, but what we are trying to tell you is that wasn't the case in this instance.

^^ And what he said.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 21:13
To be honest you're entitled to believe whatever you like, but what we are trying to tell you is that wasn't the case in this instance.

^^ And what he said.

Any proof that that wasnt the case?

Keena
21-11-2017, 21:21
Just out of interest I read the last two pages of this thread and found myself googling symptoms of online psychopathic behaviour. Just saying...:rolleyes:

hkraft300
21-11-2017, 21:25
And that may be true, but again they're a lucrative business so trust just isn't there.

I know you’ve been harping on about race driver opinions, but SMS had been closely working with Pirelli engineers to get the tires as close as they can, with further updates and fine tuning to come.

Note: which tires are you using on the road cars? I’m sure that makes a huge difference. SMS have thrown on super sticky semi-slicks in with some OEM-ish rubber, also some “for fun, by SMS” tires on some cars.

You can’t drive your irl car on Trofeo tires, drive the same car on “all season” tires in game with your ffb all wonky and call the sim rubbish.

That’s the point I think the tuner guys are making.

PC1 had some understeer issues, and I think the new diff model and tires of pc2 are leaps ahead.

rosko
21-11-2017, 21:37
If you had seen their feedback posts at the WMD2 forums over the last two years, you'd think differently.

lol why are there 4 mods itt? Its like team defence churning out the usual youtube clips & statements. As i've said at the very beginning of this thread, nobody who is not a huge sms fan is going to take those comments from SMS employees as unobjective. The fact that they are paid to be critical of the sim is irrelevant, in fact it probably makes them even more likely to be biased. You can't just ignore this fact of how the human mind works.

Urban Chaos 2.0
21-11-2017, 21:59
I saw an interview with Nicolas Hamilton three or so weeks before the launch of Project Cars 2, and he confirmed the authenticity of the the various cars in the sim. However, when asked about what he thought of the karting aspect and the physics associated with PC2's karts, he said "I'm still not a fan", and felt things still needed to be worked on as far as karting. If he was being paid to praise and advertise the sim, he would not have said that.

Konan
21-11-2017, 22:10
lol why are there 4 mods itt? Its like team defence churning out the usual youtube clips & statements. As i've said at the very beginning of this thread, nobody who is not a huge sms fan is going to take those comments from SMS employees as unobjective. The fact that they are paid to be critical of the sim is irrelevant, in fact it probably makes them even more likely to be biased. You can't just ignore this fact of how the human mind works.

Because the four of us were present at WMD2 to witness what those guys did to help develop the game...it's only natural that they show off what they worked on...BTW us mods are not employees...

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 23:19
I saw an interview with Nicolas Hamilton three or so weeks before the launch of Project Cars 2, and he confirmed the authenticity of the the various cars in the sim. However, when asked about what he thought of the karting aspect and the physics associated with PC2's karts, he said "I'm still not a fan", and felt things still needed to be worked on as far as karting. If he was being paid to praise and advertise the sim, he would not have said that.

That's funny, Lewis Hamilton was paid to also say GT Sport was "as close to real life as you can get" something apperently a lot of race car drivers say about a lot of games. You see a pattern here? So do I! They're all paid to say these things. Also, can I have a link to that interview please?

cortextual
21-11-2017, 23:27
That's funny, Lewis Hamilton was paid to also say GT Sport was "as close to real life as you can get" something apperently a lot of race car drivers say about a lot of games. You see a pattern here? So do I! They're all paid to say these things. Also, can I have a link to that interview please?

Dude your tone has turned pretty condescending and sarcastic for someone who was complaining people weren't being mature.

Brandon Pisz
21-11-2017, 23:34
Dude your tone has turned pretty condescending and sarcastic for someone who was complaining people weren't being mature.

Nothing I said was sarcastic, don't try to deter this conversation away. My point still stands.

diesel97
21-11-2017, 23:45
That's funny, Lewis Hamilton was paid to also say GT Sport was "as close to real life as you can get" something apperently a lot of race car drivers say about a lot of games. You see a pattern here? So do I! They're all paid to say these things. Also, can I have a link to that interview please?

These drivers were not paid PR mouthpieces they were employees collecting a check every week. If they said the cars or physics were not right that would be admission of them failing at there job

cortextual
22-11-2017, 00:04
Nothing I said was sarcastic, don't try to deter this conversation away. My point still stands.

Oh I'm not trying to "deter" anything, I just think you're coming off as rude, so thought I'd let you know.

Mahjik
22-11-2017, 00:39
How about instead of throwing shallow insults and banter, those who would like to see improvement posts some differences or examples.. i.e. show a video from one of the real cars, then a video of PC2. Then let everyone can discuss the differences and see if maybe there is something SMS may want to adjust...

morpwr
22-11-2017, 02:04
Its too bad you cant still see the notes from the pcars 1 testing. I did read what both of the paid mouthpieces wrote and in many cases it was pointed out what was wrong. It definitely wasn't a everything is perfect scenario because they were paid.

Brandon Pisz
22-11-2017, 02:17
How about instead of throwing shallow insults and banter, those who would like to see improvement posts some differences or examples.. i.e. show a video from one of the real cars, then a video of PC2. Then let everyone can discuss the differences and see if maybe there is something SMS may want to adjust...
Alright, take this video for example \/

https://youtu.be/y2WavTlIX50

He has plenty of grip and is clearly going a pretty average pace if not faster. In PC2, no matter what setup or what temperature I'm running I constantly feel like I'm on an ice track. I'll run the correct setup and my car just spins out. Road cars like the 720S have much more grip.

Mahjik
22-11-2017, 03:12
The problem is you cannot tell how fast the driver is going (which I'll bet is not as fast as you might think). I instruct drivers in all kinds of cars. Spent a day in a current gen Viper on a track. The guy picked up several seconds on the track and was really moving, however he was still slower than my Honda S2000 race car which has a stock engine (so he as 3x the horsepower). However, in the car it felt fast until I started looking at some data.

Fellas, to make this work, we need things that are "comparable". "Subjective" things are just going to be that, subjective.

Mahjik
22-11-2017, 03:16
Actually, a pretty good test is using the "Holy Trinity" and the Algarve International Circuit. There are times out there by Chris Harris as well as "those other three" (who themselves didn't really set those times) which are similar.

senna94f1
22-11-2017, 03:36
Yes but are these PC version times and not ps4 ,

Someone on the forum said Pcars 2 in physics is completely different to the consoles,

Is there any truth to this ,because I thought we were all buying the same game , it doesn't say anywhere when advertised
Games are different

,in Pcars 1 we all had same game , so any truth to this .,

And to be fair the mclaren in the community events was crazy the way it handled,,can you imagine driving that on real road ,

My Honda integra type R turbo handles brilliantly round real race tracks so I would have thought the mclaren in community events would handle far superior to my real car, and my integra put out wheels on road 400bhp and basically fully spec race engine, yet it's not undriveable lol

And it's been round nordshleife couple of times ,so you base things by that,

Take the Clio cup car on community events it did handle horrible and I tried everything in setups , now I've actually tested Clio cup car in real life it handles far better and doesn't keep spinning,

Are the time trail and community events do they include PC version along with the consoles times,

The young fella Had a point,


Not that none of this really matters because if the 3.0 patch is as good as the long wait ,the game should be back to its best

Ian Bell
22-11-2017, 03:59
Yes but are these PC version times and not ps4 ,

Someone on the forum said Pcars 2 in physics is completely different to the consoles,

Is there any truth to this ,because I thought we were all buying the same game , it doesn't say anywhere when advertised
Games are different

,in Pcars 1 we all had same game , so any truth to this .,

And to be fair the mclaren in the community events was crazy the way it handled,,can you imagine driving that on real road ,

My Honda integra type R turbo handles brilliantly round real race tracks so I would have thought the mclaren in community events would handle far superior to my real car, and my integra put out wheels on road 400bhp and basically fully spec race engine, yet it's not undriveable lol

And it's been round nordshleife couple of times ,so you base things by that,

Take the Clio cup car on community events it did handle horrible and I tried everything in setups , now I've actually tested Clio cup car in real life it handles far better and doesn't keep spinning,

Are the time trail and community events do they include PC version along with the consoles times,

The young fella Had a point,


Not that none of this really matters because if the 3.0 patch is as good as the long wait ,the game should be back to its best

You're spouting guff.

Our Clio was balanced by Nic who races them. They're spot on compared to real life.

Our McLaren was signed off as 'perfect' by their chief test driver.

Spout less guff.

I've just spotted your 'not as advertised' rubbish. Go away for a while.

PS, there's as much chance of you having raced a Clio Cup car as me having banged Claudia Schiffer.

hkraft300
22-11-2017, 04:39
... In PC2, no matter what setup or what temperature I'm running I constantly feel like I'm on an ice track. ...

The common denominator? :o

Whereas plenty else have a ball flinging the cars around in the game. Experienced track hacks and gamers alike.

bmanic
22-11-2017, 05:38
Alright, take this video for example \/

https://youtu.be/y2WavTlIX50

He has plenty of grip and is clearly going a pretty average pace if not faster. In PC2, no matter what setup or what temperature I'm running I constantly feel like I'm on an ice track. I'll run the correct setup and my car just spins out. Road cars like the 720S have much more grip.


... and here we are again at the crux of the matter. YOU are incapable of running the car without spinning or average pace. YOU are the common denominator here for your own comments.

I on the other hand have absolute no problems driving the car at speed or like shown in the video. In fact, if I drive easy and like a fast sunday drive, it looks pretty much exactly like in that video. Man, you really seem to be thinking highly of yourself and disregarding your own abilities as a factor.

Keena
22-11-2017, 05:58
Alright, take this video for example \/

https://youtu.be/y2WavTlIX50

He has plenty of grip and is clearly going a pretty average pace if not faster. In PC2, no matter what setup or what temperature I'm running I constantly feel like I'm on an ice track. I'll run the correct setup and my car just spins out. Road cars like the 720S have much more grip.

I read this and decided to give the McLaren 720s a go using default road setup- never had a go at one of these road going supercars in PC2 yet, my habitat being the formula rookie, clio etc. First impressions? Really really easy to overdrive the car and be way to aggressive on the power. I went around Donnington and probably at only 2 points over 3 laps did I actually have 100% power down, at least that's how it felt.. I didn't crash or spin but drove within my limits and gradually increased pace to find where the car was going to bite me. Oversteer is easy to balance on power but you can feel the inertia of its weight if you brake late. That said I was pretty happy with my pace and the handling? Oh Wow is all I can say! Felt pretty damn good to me and I do call a spade a spade. If you are used to just mashing the power that will not work with this car. Perhaps a period of quiet reflection for a little while..? If it helps Ill take a screen shot of my telemetry data from pcars profiler for you.
Edit- Ive just been sat here for a few minutes replaying it in my head.. still just "Wow".

2nd Edit- out of interest I jumped on time trial. Ive done probably less than 10 laps in this car but I'm 2nd around Donnington in this car class, just less than a second slower than the fastest (Im Dangledonk). OK so theres only about 10 times up there but I'm sure you understand my point- if I can do it, so can you. Maybe lower the boost a little under the engine tab in car setup. That will make the power less like an ON/OFF switch..

hkraft300
22-11-2017, 06:38
Have you tried the RXC on trofeo tires on a quick-ish track?
Road America at night. In the RXC. Drive the balls off it.
Wow.

Keena
22-11-2017, 06:52
Have you tried the RXC on trofeo tires on a quick-ish track?
Road America at night. In the RXC. Drive the balls off it.
Wow.

I will do, thanks :). This game just keeps on giving :)

Sankyo
22-11-2017, 06:54
Any proof that that wasnt the case?
Nope, it's the other way around. You're stating that all of the drivers were paid shills, you prove it.

But anyway, I'll humour you. Here's the link to Nic Hamilton's feedback thread at WMD2: http://pcars2.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?22925-Nic-s-Thread
Oh wait, you're not a WMD2 member, you can't access it :rolleyes: I wonder whether you'll go as far as declaring that link fake... ;)

Urban Chaos 2.0
22-11-2017, 07:24
That's funny, Lewis Hamilton was paid to also say GT Sport was "as close to real life as you can get" something apperently a lot of race car drivers say about a lot of games. You see a pattern here? So do I! They're all paid to say these things. Also, can I have a link to that interview please?

Here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmRw78PgZA

What's funny is that you seem to lack the ability to process anything which doesn't confirm your biases. After you straight up ignored the inherent honesty in Nicolas Hamilton's opinion of Project Cars 2 and his voiced disapproval of the karting aspect of PC2 before launch, you selectively targeted your confirmation bias to his name and claimed his brother once said something positive about Gran Turismo. You have a self-defeating habit of ignoring what others say, and supplanting the pertinent talking points with what you have imagined. Your imagination takes undue precedence to reality.

The history of your overly self-important comments on this thread conforms to one paradigm: 1) You say something. 2) Someone says something different, and provides proof, or an evidence-based rational. 3) You ignore what the person said, and re-assert your previous declaration(s) as truth, because to your mind, your biased intuitions supersede any and all investigation. Your reference point for said intuition being Assetto Corsa... not real life. Essentially, your complaint is that the most powerful cars in PC2 have too much power for you, and that you can't control them. Guess what? Control your right foot. SMS is not about to dumb their tyre model down to make you happy. If you want unrealistic grip levels, nonsensical suspension mechanics, an unsophisticated tyre model, and fake, unrealistic FFB... stick to Assetto Corsa. Your fantastical obsession with cars that defy the laws of physics will be undisturbed in that game.

I and many others here, have no problem whatsoever driving the cars which give you a problem. Why is that? Do we not have access to the same sim? Are we all highly skilled? No doubt some of us are, but the most likely answer to the matter of your inability to do what you would want to do with some cars, is that you think they should behave as they do in your imagination: UNREALISTICALLY.


You're spouting guff.

Our Clio was balanced by Nic who races them. They're spot on compared to real life.

Our McLaren was signed off as 'perfect' by their chief test driver.

Spout less guff.

I've just spotted your 'not as advertised' rubbish. Go away for a while.

PS, there's as much chance of you having raced a Clio Cup car as me having banged Claudia Schiffer.

Brandon Pisz and Senna94f1 are not here in the pursuit of a logical explanation to anything they might not understand, nor are there here to allow reason to spoil their fairy-tale interpretations of reality. That much, they have sufficiently demonstrated. They do not want the truth, they want to re-affirm their biases. It's a waste of time trying to reason with such people. I suggest we all stop wasting our time.

Konan
22-11-2017, 07:58
This thread is going nowhere fast...if it continues like this it'll be closed soon...

Gix916
22-11-2017, 08:22
This thread is going nowhere fast...

just like the OP..

Leper Messiah
22-11-2017, 08:53
I'm just amazed that people can tell throttle position from videos!!! How on earth do we know if people are flooring the throttle or feathering it to maintain control?

morpwr
22-11-2017, 11:00
Thing that kills me every time I see a post about some expensive hypercar not handling in any sim is why does expensive equal handles like its glued to the road, stops faster then an f1 and you should just be able to floor it coming out of a corner?

Urban Chaos 2.0
22-11-2017, 11:03
I'm just amazed that people can tell throttle position from videos!!! How on earth do we know if people are flooring the throttle or feathering it to maintain control?

It depends on what their imagination informs them to look for, and which imagined observation would best serve their arguments. If they want to imagine the guy is flooring the throttle, that's just what they'll do, and they'll tell you it's actually happening, lol.


Thing that kills me every time I see a post about some expensive hypercar not handling in any sim is why does expensive equal handles like its glued to the road, stops faster then an f1 and you should just be able to floor it coming out of a corner?

It's especially comical, given the very large, and almost excessive number of supercar crash videos on the internet. And when you consider that most crashes aren't even caught on tape, it really makes you wonder about the kind of people who would ignore all that evidence.

RoccoTTS
22-11-2017, 12:04
A Lancer Evo is a 4wd car and it's very easy to drive and it's glued to the road, you can floor it coming out of La Source, right ?
Or maybe it's not as easy as you might think :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAWrxnmnd3I

Wolkenwolf
22-11-2017, 13:05
Honey, bring popcorn ...

This discussion inspired me to do some road car tests.

T500, CP 60%, 80, 75,0,0 Flavor RAW 100/50/50/50
Track Donington National, clear

I have no setups for the cars, dont load one, just jump in, do not edit, and go on track. Assists authentic.
You are right, the GTs need a light foot and then they are good to drive. With a BIG but ... like:

Whats my fun factor in these cars and how do they feel and what times compared to the fastest TT are possible for me ?

McLaren 650 - heavy, stiff, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 2-3 secs + (would not buy )
McLaren 750 -- light, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 3-4 secs + (would not buy )
Corvette - more stable under accelleration out of corner, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )
Porsche GT3 RS - more stable, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )

XBow - FUN! Stable, glued with light oversteering when to fast - TT +1 sec + (BUY!)
La Ferrari - FUN! Really funny! Stable, and no twitching or turning out of corner. TT equal. (BUY!)

if every road car would behave like the Ferrari, (more or less) no one would complain ;), the 720s feels real bad compared to LaFerrari.
perhaps we all need a DD Wheel to feel it right.

Mrocz
22-11-2017, 13:10
Honey, bring popcorn ...

This discussion inspired me to do some road car tests.

T500, CP 60%, 80, 75,0,0 Flavor RAW 100/50/50/50
Track Donington National, clear

I have no setups for the cars, dont load one, just jump in, do not edit, and go on track. Assists authentic.
You are right, the GTs need a light foot and then they are good to drive. With a BIG but ... like:

Whats my fun factor in these cars and how do they feel and what times compared to the fastest TT are possible for me ?

McLaren 650 - heavy, stiff, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 2-3 secs + (would not buy )
McLaren 750 -- light, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 3-4 secs + (would not buy )
Corvette - more stable under accelleration out of corner, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )
Porsche GT3 RS - more stable, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )

XBow - FUN! Stable, glued with light oversteering when to fast - TT +1 sec + (BUY!)
La Ferrari - FUN! Really funny! Stable, and no twitching or turning out of corner. TT equal. (BUY!)

if every road car would behave like the Ferrari, (more or less) no one would complain ;), the 720s feels real bad compared to LaFerrari.
perhaps we all need a DD Wheel to feel it right.

Try Ferrari Enzo and Lamborghini Aventador, they are really great :D

Wolkenwolf
22-11-2017, 14:21
Try Ferrari Enzo and Lamborghini Aventador, they are really great :D

Yapp, i would put them under stable+Fun. But the Lambo is undrivable - because of cockpit! Man, that looks like a fantasygame. :D
But both feel really good, nice, living and stable feeling. And i CAN put the pedal to de metal!

Brandon Pisz
22-11-2017, 15:05
Alright, maybe there was a misunderstanding. I thought the road cars handled a bit off and I can see now that its not worth fighting over. I enjoy and love Project CARS 2 as much as anyone here (maybe except for Ian) but I don't hate it in any possible way. I believe it's one of the greatest if not the greatest sim of this generation.

Who wouldn't want a sim with pretty much any car you could ever dream of driving with literally any weather condition you could think off? Anyway, I accept that it's "as realistic as possible." There are obviously still a few bug fixes, DLC car suggestions I'd like to discuss in a future thread. But for now, I'm done with this one, thank you all for your time!

Good day :)

Keena
22-11-2017, 16:31
Alright, maybe there was a misunderstanding. I thought the road cars handled a bit off and I can see now that its not worth fighting over. I enjoy and love Project CARS 2 as much as anyone here (maybe except for Ian) but I don't hate it in any possible way. I believe it's one of the greatest if not the greatest sim of this generation.

Who wouldn't want a sim with pretty much any car you could ever dream of driving with literally any weather condition you could think off? Anyway, I accept that it's "as realistic as possible." There are obviously still a few bug fixes, DLC car suggestions I'd like to discuss in a future thread. But for now, I'm done with this one, thank you all for your time!

Good day :)

Nice post :)

FYI Brandon- Ive actually got blisters on my hands from gripping the wheel so tightly, I'm sweating like an axe murderer, but IVE JUST SET A WORLD RECORD in the McLaren 720s! Ok its not the fastest lap but it is the fastest in class :) Yeah its only a game but its my first ever world record! I'm not going to tell anyone which track either because I want to savour this brief moment :) I would never even have tried this car if it were not for the points you raised, and when I first tried the car I was struggling with it too. Took ages to dial out the understeer..

Ex01
22-11-2017, 18:17
Can you tell me where those horses are hiding in my Corsa please? LOL

PLEASE for the love of god say you have a 6 inch tail pipe, K&N induction kit and blacked out windows on your Corsa and do handbrake turns in McDonnalds car park at 1am??? You could well end up being my favorite mod!

Konan
22-11-2017, 18:41
245738

245739

245740

Konan
22-11-2017, 18:50
BTW...my music has more power than my car...LOL

Keena
22-11-2017, 18:55
BTW...my music has more power than my car...LOL

My car was doing the octopus ink jet routine every time I put my foot down. Turns out after I finally stick my head under the hood that the turbo pipe had a big split. Now fixed and today I had the pleasure of getting told off by my wife for giving her neck pains with my yeehaw power applications :) Cost £600 to fix that plus some under floor welding.. I sobbed as I handed over my money and mumbled fanatec goodbyes as I left.. it doesn't matter what car you own though, they are all special to us and we feel a peculiar pride in them :)

Sloskimo
23-11-2017, 05:12
Honey, bring popcorn ...

This discussion inspired me to do some road car tests.

T500, CP 60%, 80, 75,0,0 Flavor RAW 100/50/50/50
Track Donington National, clear

I have no setups for the cars, dont load one, just jump in, do not edit, and go on track. Assists authentic.
You are right, the GTs need a light foot and then they are good to drive. With a BIG but ... like:

Whats my fun factor in these cars and how do they feel and what times compared to the fastest TT are possible for me ?

McLaren 650 - heavy, stiff, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 2-3 secs + (would not buy )
McLaren 750 -- light, wobbling, unstable under accelleration out of corner, no real fun, TT 3-4 secs + (would not buy )
Corvette - more stable under accelleration out of corner, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )
Porsche GT3 RS - more stable, wobbling, some fun, TT 1-2 sec + (would not buy )

XBow - FUN! Stable, glued with light oversteering when to fast - TT +1 sec + (BUY!)
La Ferrari - FUN! Really funny! Stable, and no twitching or turning out of corner. TT equal. (BUY!)

if every road car would behave like the Ferrari, (more or less) no one would complain ;), the 720s feels real bad compared to LaFerrari.
perhaps we all need a DD Wheel to feel it right.

I shall not get into this discussion much, but...

All the nice cars you listed - Drive around, hot chicks (BUY!)
KTM Xbow - Drive around, girls looking disgusted, highschool memories coming back... (Would not buy)

Urban Chaos 2.0
23-11-2017, 05:57
Exotic cars rarely attract women. Unless you're driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini, most don't have a damn clue what you're driving, and those who know, really don't care, haha. You'll attract far more guys, than you'll attract women.

LukeC
23-11-2017, 06:26
Exotic cars rarely attract women. Unless you're driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini, most don't have a damn clue what you're driving, and those who know, really don't care, haha. You'll attract far more guys, than you'll attract women.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YH-K-cj6TY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujPNSC4JllE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scfilRe2sqU

Sloskimo
23-11-2017, 06:36
Exotic cars rarely attract women. Unless you're driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini, most don't have a damn clue what you're driving, and those who know, really don't care, haha. You'll attract far more guys, than you'll attract women.

But will the guys at least be hot?

Urban Chaos 2.0
23-11-2017, 06:52
Each and every single one of these "gold digger pranks" is fake as hell. Nothing real about them. I mean: Look at the thumbnails, for crying out loud. The guys also have some terrible acting, but the girls are considerably worse.

LukeC
23-11-2017, 06:55
Each and every single one of these "gold digger pranks" is fake as hell. Nothing real about them. I mean: Look at the thumbnails, for crying out loud. The guys also have some terrible acting.

I've heard somewhere that the women were not in on the act. Other than that of course it's fake and the acting is what it is.

Ian Bell
23-11-2017, 06:57
I've heard somewhere that the women were not in on the act. Other than that of course it's fake and the acting is what it is.

I heard there was one real one and everyone since copied it and paid actors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyeUcFKRv4

Ian Bell
23-11-2017, 06:57
PS, this has gone slightly off topic.

LukeC
23-11-2017, 07:02
I heard there was one real one and everyone since copied it and paid actors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyeUcFKRv4

If it can happen once, it can happen twice...and thrice... And if it can happen thrice it can happen hundreds of times.

Sankyo
23-11-2017, 07:03
PS, this has gone slightly off topic.
Tempted to say "and for the better", but that would be promoting to go off-topic as a moderator, which is probably not a good idea :)

Could someone recap where we stand now regarding the thread topic? :p

Konan
23-11-2017, 07:09
Tempted to say "and for the better", but that would be promoting to go off-topic as a moderator, which is probably not a good idea :)

Could someone recap where we stand now regarding the thread topic? :p

Trying to prove that an exotic car has physics in it while standing still?
Preferably in a private spot...:cool:

Urban Chaos 2.0
23-11-2017, 07:09
I heard there was one real one and everyone since copied it and paid actors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyeUcFKRv4

Nope, this was faked as well. Vitaly is one of Youtube's original pranksters, and fakers...



I think this topic should be moved to a thread of its own.

Sloskimo
23-11-2017, 07:12
PS, this has gone slightly off topic.

I’ve done it again, sorry. Had a habit of doing it during the Pcars 1 days, I shall better my ways... hopefully.

Wolkenwolf
23-11-2017, 09:21
can you guys plz compare McLaren 720S and P1 on California Highway, 15.08, 16:00, OEM Setup loaded

I am under the surely wrong impression that the P1 has this weird tendency to accelerate and brake in a straight line or were i want it to go.
That must be wrong cause the 720S is right. It sways to left and right under acceleration like a real Sportscar!
;)

Bad joke aside, drive both and have a look at the behaviour of tire pressure and temps if you change them. 55° and hot pressure ?

btw, the P1 is on hards a "little" bit unstable, the 720S starts swaying on soft.

bmanic
23-11-2017, 12:38
If you guys are using stability control then I can agree with all of the comments.. that thing is not functioning properly in my opinion. However once you disable it (and keep ABS + Traction control) you have an easy to drive car in most situations.

Wolkenwolf
24-11-2017, 08:12
maybe, but depends also on car ... and perhaps tires ? e.g C63 is a complete mess with or without assists (for me), on the other hand the caterhams are pure fun. with semislicks.

Leper Messiah
24-11-2017, 08:36
Surely having different experiences from the cars is correct? If every car handled the same then we'd all be saying it's too much like Forza or GT? I have no idea if PC2 is more realistic then sim A,B,C etc and I don't care a jot, all I know is I prefer having to be careful with the throttle and that's a big improvement over PC1 (and I loved PC1). I may not have experience in fast cars but I owned several supersport Kawasaki ZX6Rs with the equivalent of more than 400hp/tonne and I had to be careful with the throttle and only opened up full throttle once up into 4th or 5th (although I could break the law on a mway in 1st!! Oh I miss riding bikes, Hey Ian......Project bikes?! ;) )

Ian Bell
24-11-2017, 08:38
maybe, but depends also on car ... and perhaps tires ? e.g C63 is a complete mess with or without assists (for me), on the other hand the caterhams are pure fun. with semislicks.

Welcome to reality.

Leroygtt
24-11-2017, 08:44
Welcome to reality.


''And on that bombshell it's time to end''

Ian Bell
24-11-2017, 08:48
''And on that bombshell it's time to end''

Dropped my mic'...

Wolkenwolf
24-11-2017, 12:51
Welcome to reality.

Ouuuh... i hate that it has to be me to say it ... but .. errrmmm ... ouuhmm .... we are talking about a software product, sim, videogame - you need a break ;) :o

Sankyo
24-11-2017, 12:52
Ouuuh... i hate that it has to be me to say it ... but .. errrmmm ... ouuhmm .... we are talking about a software product, sim, videogame - you need a break ;) :o

This piece of software's goal is to simulate reality.

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 10:19
Dropped my mic'...

Hey Ian, did you by chance recieve my private message?
I'm still quite new to these forums so I don't know for sure how they work exactly.

Ian Bell
14-12-2017, 10:20
Hey Ian, did you by chance recieve my private message?

No, I get thousands and have to ignore them sorry.

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 10:21
No, I get thousands and have to ignore them sorry.

Could I paste it here? Its rather long

Ian Bell
14-12-2017, 10:22
Could I paste it here? Its rather long

So long as it's nice. I've had enough crap today.

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 10:24
So long as it's nice. I've had enough crap today.

Hello Mr. Bell, it's me again.
I have been nonstop playing Project CARS 2 and have been binge reading forums and everything you have to say to people (like myself) who have once questioned the realism and authenticity of the game.

So I come to you with the lust for more information on the game. I have invested more time reading forums and getting as much information as I can on the game then actually playing it. I'm very interested in the game's physics, sound design and was curious if I could get more information on it. Like for example, how did you get the sounds in the game? How many mics did you use? where did you put them? how many cars were actually recorded? Did the manufacturures ever help out with the sound design other than supplying the cars for the recording sessions? Are there some cars you personally think need improvement in terms of their sound? Where did you and your team go to record each sound and what methods were used (dyno, 2mi straight, etc) to record each sound?

As for physics, how did you and your team detail the cars so accurately? How accurately portrayed are each if the cars? Did as much effort go into each car or did some recieve more attention than others? My most important question concerning physics; Would you and other professional drivers agree that Prohect cars 2's physics and vehicle handling are 1:1 in terms of overall accuracy to their real life counterparts? In other words, how realistic is each vehicle compared to its real life counterpart?

If you have gotten this far in the message, I would like to say that I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read my message and for keeping in touch with the community so often. Slightly Mad Studio's is by far the best dev team I've seen in terms of dedication, motivation and communication between their own community. Thanks again for your time!

-Brandon

Ian Bell
14-12-2017, 10:24
Hello Mr. Bell, it's me again.
I have been nonstop playing Project CARS 2 and have been binge reading forums and everything you have to say to people (like myself) who have once questioned the realism and authenticity of the game.

So I come to you with the lust for more information on the game. I have invested more time reading forums and getting as much information as I can on the game then actually playing it. I'm very interested in the game's physics, sound design and was curious if I could get more information on it. Like for example, how did you get the sounds in the game? How many mics did you use? where did you put them? how many cars were actually recorded? Did the manufacturures ever help out with the sound design other than supplying the cars for the recording sessions? Are there some cars you personally think need improvement in terms of their sound? Where did you and your team go to record each sound and what methods were used (dyno, 2mi straight, etc) to record each sound?

As for physics, how did you and your team detail the cars so accurately? How accurately portrayed are each if the cars? Did as much effort go into each car or did some recieve more attention than others? My most important question concerning physics; Would you and other professional drivers agree that Prohect cars 2's physics and vehicle handling are 1:1 in terms of overall accuracy to their real life counterparts? In other words, how realistic is each vehicle compared to its real life counterpart?

If you have gotten this far in the message, I would like to say that I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read my message and for keeping in touch with the community so often. Slightly Mad Studio's is by far the best dev team I've seen in terms of dedication, motivation and communication between their own community. Thanks again for your time!

-Brandon

That was nice.

I'll let the team give you all of the info :)

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 10:35
That was nice.

I'll let the team give you all of the info :)

Thanks a lot Mr. Bell!

Zaskarspants
14-12-2017, 10:37
maybe, but depends also on car ... and perhaps tires ? e.g C63 is a complete mess with or without assists (for me), on the other hand the caterhams are pure fun. with semislicks.

Not a mess, but the polar opposite of the Caterham. It is fun to drive if you remember it is a bus and will take much longer to settle, it is like driving in slow motion, plan ahead and be very gentle with the throttle. Once you recalibrate to skiddy bus it is a hoot to drift round corners.

Zaskarspants
14-12-2017, 10:38
Thanks a lot Mr. Bell!

I would be very keen to see more technical stuff about the game too.

Invincible
14-12-2017, 10:45
I would be very keen to see more technical stuff about the game too.

I think many would like to read that. It's really epic stuff behind the scenes.

RomKnight
14-12-2017, 10:53
I recall a photo from pC1 even wrt how the crash sounds (some at least) were made. Really fun fact on how "Doc"'s sound library is ever expanding :)

There were also some photos in the Pagani (one example) at the time showing how and some info about the custom mic's IIRC.

Some here might remember as well.

Behind the scenes stuff really is awesome stuff to watch/read (one day we'll get the bloopers too I hope :D )

BigDad
14-12-2017, 10:59
I heard there was one real one and everyone since copied it and paid actors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyeUcFKRv4

Hey Ian , well done Mate .......There's a rumour that you are banging Claudia Schiffer ;)

Who's the gold digger in that thought , haha :p

RobPhoboS
14-12-2017, 11:00
how did you get the sounds in the game? How many mics did you use? where did you put them? how many cars were actually recorded? Did the manufacturures ever help out with the sound design other than supplying the cars for the recording sessions? Are there some cars you personally think need improvement in terms of their sound? Where did you and your team go to record each sound and what methods were used (dyno, 2mi straight, etc) to record each sound?


Ian :
I'd just like to add - if there are any cars the team want to get access to record sounds etc shoot me a PM.
I'm sure they/you have contacts already but doesn't hurt to have another !


Brandon:
Something to bare in mind, even if every car drove exactly the same as reality - the way you interface with the game (pad/wheel) is different for each person and would cost heaps to develop I imagine to get it 'right' across all of them. A £500 rig compared to £500,000 is going to feel VERY different :D

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 11:48
Ian :
I'd just like to add - if there are any cars the team want to get access to record sounds etc shoot me a PM.
I'm sure they/you have contacts already but doesn't hurt to have another !


Brandon:
Something to bare in mind, even if every car drove exactly the same as reality - the way you interface with the game (pad/wheel) is different for each person and would cost heaps to develop I imagine to get it 'right' across all of them. A £500 rig compared to £500,000 is going to feel VERY different :D

I can assure you I would not spend nearly that much on a simulator. Maybe £14,000 of that £500,000. I'd get a 911 GT3 RS with the rest! At the moment however I am stuck with an Xbox, £300 sim cockpit and a G920. I definitely plan on going all out when I can get a solid job else where.

RobPhoboS
14-12-2017, 11:51
I can assure you I would not spend nearly that much on a simulator. Maybe £14,000 of that £500,000. I'd get a 911 GT3 RS with the rest!

:D

You'd have plenty of change left over for others too.
But you get my point, very difficult to say 'yep, that's exact'.

Mark Race
14-12-2017, 12:08
Personally, I don't want to know all the details of how this or any other game is made. There is an element of gaming that is a bit like magic, once the trick is explained the magic is lost. Games, even simulators are partly about that suspension of disbelief and creation of those magic wow moments that PCARS2 really does create especially in VR. If the curtain is pulled back too far and we know how all that is done some of the illusion is lost for me anyway.

As for reality/correct feedback etc PCARS2 is close enough to my real wet and dry track experience in the few cars in the game I've driven on the track. Sure some are slightly more believable than others but we are talking 8, 9, 10/10 on my subjective lifelike scale. Take another Mercedes, the A45 AMG, with the stable setup it is so close to my experience of reality with that car, easy to drive super quickly with plenty of push on understeer if overdone. Now load up the Loose settings and it suddenly a different animal, I think in relaity you would have to spend a few ££££ on modifications to get the A45 to become as playful and oversteer happy as that - it's differnt from my real experience and still good at the same time. I understamnd when people complain because something is broken or doesn't work but the nuainces of individual cars is so subjective that these threads quickly become circular arguments.

So my request for Ian and SMS is please could they fix reality to be more like the game ;). All this working to earn money and having to buy cars, the costs of running them on track just isn't as much fun as firing up the huge range of cars, tracks and conditions I want at any time I want without even having to drive hundreds of miles just to get to the track. Oh and I'd like to be able to switch between stable and loose setting in my real car at the flick of a switch. If SMS can make reality more like that I'll even buy the season pass :) Until then I'll just keep enjoying the game.

ironman
14-12-2017, 12:26
Personally, I don't want to know all the details of how this or any other game is made. There is an element of gaming that is a bit like magic, once the trick is explained the magic is lost. Games, even simulators are partly about that suspension of disbelief and creation of those magic wow moments that PCARS2 really does create especially in VR. If the curtain is pulled back too far and we know how all that is done some of the illusion is lost for me anyway.

As for reality/correct feedback etc PCARS2 is close enough to my real wet and dry track experience in the few cars in the game I've driven on the track. Sure some are slightly more believable than others but we are talking 8, 9, 10/10 on my subjective lifelike scale. Take another Mercedes, the A45 AMG, with the stable setup it is so close to my experience of reality with that car, easy to drive super quickly with plenty of push on understeer if overdone. Now load up the Loose settings and it suddenly a different animal, I think in relaity you would have to spend a few ££££ on modifications to get the A45 to become as playful and oversteer happy as that - it's differnt from my real experience and still good at the same time. I understamnd when people complain because something is broken or doesn't work but the nuainces of individual cars is so subjective that these threads quickly become circular arguments.

So my request for Ian and SMS is please could they fix reality to be more like the game ;). All this working to earn money and having to buy cars, the costs of running them on track just isn't as much fun as firing up the huge range of cars, tracks and conditions I want at any time I want without even having to drive hundreds of miles just to get to the track. Oh and I'd like to be able to switch between stable and loose setting in my real car at the flick of a switch. If SMS can make reality more like that I'll even buy the season pass :) Until then I'll just keep enjoying the game.

Very original and interesting contribution to discussion: I really like this kind of approach:
I never had track experience IRL and I am not interested in racing IRL, so I kindly ask you:
my purpose when I play PCars 2 is to gain an idea of the various aspects involving driving race/dream cars on track IRL, and also to learn the caracteristics of the various real cars/tracks counterpart.
In your honest opinion we can say PCars 2 does the trick ??
Does it give us a good picture of real life ?
Best regards !

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 12:39
Personally, I don't want to know all the details of how this or any other game is made. There is an element of gaming that is a bit like magic, once the trick is explained the magic is lost. Games, even simulators are partly about that suspension of disbelief and creation of those magic wow moments that PCARS2 really does create especially in VR. If the curtain is pulled back too far and we know how all that is done some of the illusion is lost for me anyway.

As for reality/correct feedback etc PCARS2 is close enough to my real wet and dry track experience in the few cars in the game I've driven on the track. Sure some are slightly more believable than others but we are talking 8, 9, 10/10 on my subjective lifelike scale. Take another Mercedes, the A45 AMG, with the stable setup it is so close to my experience of reality with that car, easy to drive super quickly with plenty of push on understeer if overdone. Now load up the Loose settings and it suddenly a different animal, I think in relaity you would have to spend a few ££££ on modifications to get the A45 to become as playful and oversteer happy as that - it's differnt from my real experience and still good at the same time. I understamnd when people complain because something is broken or doesn't work but the nuainces of individual cars is so subjective that these threads quickly become circular arguments.

So my request for Ian and SMS is please could they fix reality to be more like the game ;). All this working to earn money and having to buy cars, the costs of running them on track just isn't as much fun as firing up the huge range of cars, tracks and conditions I want at any time I want without even having to drive hundreds of miles just to get to the track. Oh and I'd like to be able to switch between stable and loose setting in my real car at the flick of a switch. If SMS can make reality more like that I'll even buy the season pass :) Until then I'll just keep enjoying the game.

I ask about that kind of stuff because Im genuinly interested. Some day I myself hope to work/make the best simulator or do something with cars. Like Gran Touring, etc.

Mark Race
14-12-2017, 12:58
Very original and interesting contribution to discussion: I really like this kind of approach:
I never had track experience IRL and I am not interested in racing IRL, so I kindly ask you:
my purpose when I play PCars 2 is to gain an idea of the various aspects involving driving race/dream cars on track IRL, and also to learn the caracteristics of the various real cars/tracks counterpart.
In your honest opinion we can say PCars 2 does the trick ??
Does it give us a good picture of real life ?
Best regards !

Thanks and good to see another friendly response.

Yes, for me, PCARS2 does a fine job of being as close to reality as I've experienced and can reasonably expect from a gaming wheel and VR headset. As with good flight simulators, they provide 90-95% of the real experience at a tiny fraction of the cost and risk. No simulator I've experienced can fully transmit all the g-forces and sheer impact on the body that some cars or planes do. Does PCARS2 transport me to the track and feel like I'm driving at that location? Yes it does and that is what I seek most from these games.

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 12:58
By the way Mr. Bell, will the information be coming in a Private Message or in this thread?

Mark Race
14-12-2017, 13:13
I ask about that kind of stuff because Im genuinly interested. Some day I myself hope to work/make the best simulator or do something with cars. Like Gran Touring, etc.

Good for you, aim high and reach for the stars.

It might be worth checking the PCARS2 credits to see the number of people, the skills, talents and experience that go in to making a game of this magnitude. I hope you've got thick skin to deal with all the feedback too given what Ian and other game studio bosses I read about go through.

If a lot of people are interested in learning how to make driving games (you are, I'm not) maybe it is another income stream Ian could create. SMS how to guides and courses on creating driving games, recording sounds, perfecting the handling of the cars etc. From what I see on Steam Workshop and other games that allow mods, many people looking to do what you are thinking of start out creating mods and assets for other games and build up skills that way too.

Foofer37
14-12-2017, 14:14
Lmao. Oh great, another Assetto Corsa player who's surprised by the reality that cars do not handle anything like they do in Assetto Corsa. Sorry to have to break it to you like this but:

Assetto Corsa is RUBBISH.

The only people who praise Assetto Corsa are the people who play it. i.e. videogamers who have't the slightest clue about automotive simulation. The vast majority seem to be children who think FFB and physics are some way some how related. Lol. I see that all the time, and it boggles my mind. I cannot fathom how anyone on planet Earth could think FFB is an indicator of a good vehicle physics simulation. It's quite comical really.

Assetto Corsa has fake and unrealistic FFB effects pumped into all the cars, and although it can feel very nice to some, it's just not realistic. Then there's the physics... Oh boy, the physics... The only thing Assetto Corsa is good for is drifting. Aside from that, it's useless as an actual driving simulator. Certainly useless when compared to the likes of rFactor 2, and Project Cars.

Even Project Cars 1 has a far more realistic suspension and tyre model than Assetto Corsa. In Assetto Corsa, tyres lose grip terribly unrealistically, and aside from their very unrealistic tendency to slide around, the cars are glued to the road.

You know I've tried Assetto Corsa many times. I keep coming across all these internet comments by people with chips on their shoulder talking about how much better Assetto Corsa is than rF2, iRacing, Project Cars, etc. and when trying Assetto Corsa I can't help but feel as though Kunos is paying people to troll the internet posting such nonsense.

I tried the BMW M4 just two weeks ago in Assetto Corsa, boy oh boy was I disappointed. It felt NOTHING like any M4 I've ever driven, and I've driven 3 different M4s, as well as 2 M3s. First thing I notice is the FFB. It's ridiculous. A real BMW M4 has very poor FFB, yet in Assetto Corsa I feel all kinds of things. Then there's the car's ability to turn. It's just so different from the real thing. Often it becomes unpredictable for no reason.

Assetto Corsa is not rubbish. In your opinion perhaps. But to many, it is hardly rubbish. In fact, I find that PCars 2 has handling that is closer to Assetto than before. They're still quite different but PCars 2, I feel, has moved closer to a type of Assetto handling model. My opinion of course.

senna94f1
14-12-2017, 15:51
Hey Ian , well done Mate .......There's a rumour that you are banging Claudia Schiffer ;)

Who's the gold digger in that thought , haha :p

In his dreams only ,

But remember everything is built from a dream , can we share you dream ,hahaha

Invincible
14-12-2017, 15:52
In his dreams only ,

But remember everything is built from a dream , can we share you dream ,hahaha

Project CARS was one of Ian's dreams too... So, why not? :p

Shogun613
14-12-2017, 17:25
I stumbled on to these two videos on YouTube today:
https://youtu.be/jx8zEmX6pUU

https://youtu.be/LTppe0_D8WY

It looks to me that this guy knows how to throw around the road cars pretty nicely.:cool:

G17CH
14-12-2017, 17:50
Not able to post links.

Posted today.


"The sim racing and real-life racing worlds are getting closer and closer together, but how does sim racing actually compare to real-world racing?

Our resident racing driver, Scott Mansell - who uses iRacing, Project Cars and rFactor simulators - explains the major differences that he sees between the two formats."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XI494nEJrQ

G17CH
14-12-2017, 17:51
I stumbled on to these two videos on YouTube today:
https://youtu.be/jx8zEmX6pUU

https://youtu.be/LTppe0_D8WY

It looks to me that this guy knows how to throw around the road cars pretty nicely.:cool:

I always enjoy watching Extra Mile. Nothing wrong with the cars on PC2.

Konan
14-12-2017, 18:51
Not able to post links.

You should be able to post links now (spam filter is set to five so you're able to do so after that)

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 20:06
Ian Bell - Would my questions be answered in a Private Message or in this thread?

Konan
14-12-2017, 20:11
Ian Bell - Would my questions be answered in a Private Message or in this thread?

Since he gets countless PM's every day i'd say option nr 2 would be your best chance...

Edit: or are you talking about the info you asked about development?
In that case i don't know but it would be great for all interested that it would be accessible by everyone...

Mahjik
14-12-2017, 20:24
Ian Bell - Would my questions be answered in a Private Message or in this thread?

If/when the team can respond, it will be in this thread (not PM's).

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 20:29
Since he gets countless PM's every day i'd say option nr 2 would be your best chance...

Edit: or are you talking about the info you asked about development?
In that case i don't know but it would be great for all interested that it would be accessible by everyone...

Yes, I meant on the development of the sim. I'm actually quite excited to see just how this all came into play, like how everything works/how they got the sounds and where they went, etc. Its all so interesting for me.

Konan
14-12-2017, 20:34
Yes, I meant on the development of the sim. I'm actually quite excited to see just how this all came into play, like how everything works/how they got the sounds and where they went, etc. Its all so interesting for me.

Maybe you'll get a chance to be part of that in the future...:cool:

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 20:41
Maybe you'll get a chance to be part of that in the future...:cool:

Oh goodness I hope so! Honestly, I wouldn't really want to be a big CEO or anything, I'd want to do sounds! Sounds is probably a good 70% of why I love racing/cars so much. There's nothing better than a good old Super Trofeo race and 30 of them buzz right by you. It really seals the deal in my opinion. Its that one thing that really sticks with you afterwards.

Konan
14-12-2017, 20:45
Oh goodness I hope so! Honestly, I wouldn't really want to be a big CEO or anything, I'd want to do sounds! Sounds is probably a good 70% of why I love racing/cars so much. There's nothing better than a good old Super Trofeo race and 30 of them buzz right by you. It really seals the deal in my opinion. Its that one thing that really sticks with you afterwards.

What i actually meant was to follow the development from the start...like...if there is a prequel you could sign up...:cool:

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 20:50
Not sure I quite get what you mean there..

Konan
14-12-2017, 20:56
Not sure I quite get what you mean there..

Well...a lot of "if's" will follow now...
I'm sure you know what WMD is right?
So IF there would be a pCARS 3 and IF there would be a WMD 3 you can always sign up and get the opportunity to see a game be developed from the ground up...

Brandon Pisz
14-12-2017, 21:04
Well...a lot of "if's" will follow now...
I'm sure you know what WMD is right?
So IF there would be a pCARS 3 and IF there would be a WMD 3 you can always sign up and get the opportunity to see a game be developed from the ground up...

Oh I see. I wish SMS would publish more YT videos explaining the development of each game, so people wouldn't be so misinformed. I was just talking to some fool on YouTube who thought PC2 was a lazily developed game because the graphics weren't on par with other "sims" like FM7 and GT Sport..

ChelseaOilman
14-12-2017, 21:04
So IF there would be a pCARS 3 and IF there would be a WMD 3
Wait, what, that's not a given?

Konan
14-12-2017, 21:30
Wait, what, that's not a given?

Nothing written in stone...

Konan
14-12-2017, 21:38
Oh I see. I wish SMS would publish more YT videos explaining the development of each game, so people wouldn't be so misinformed. I was just talking to some fool on YouTube who thought PC2 was a lazily developed game because the graphics weren't on par with other "sims" like FM7 and GT Sport..

Yeah well...in my view there are four kimds of people :
- the likers
- the lovers
- the doubters
- the haters

The latter is a category that will probably never change their minds but fortunately that's a small minority...they might seem the majority but that is just because the two first categories are less outspoken and just enjoy the game and see it as a waste of time to express their enjoyment on a forum...
The third one is the one that chooses depending on what they read on these forum so they can swing either way...

F1_Racer68
15-12-2017, 02:01
Maybe you'll get a chance to be part of that in the future...:cool:

I'm still waiting on that WMD3 announcement, because this time I am in FOR SURE!!! Come heck (keepign it PEGI 3 :) ) or high water!

PostBox981
15-12-2017, 10:19
Oh I see. I wish SMS would publish more YT videos explaining the development of each game, so people wouldn't be so misinformed. I was just talking to some fool on YouTube who thought PC2 was a lazily developed game because the graphics weren't on par with other "sims" like FM7 and GT Sport..

Maybe you should point that poor fool to our screenshots thread... :rolleyes:

Brandon Pisz
15-12-2017, 10:42
Still not sure if I'll get the development information in the thread or PM'd. I'd prefer thread so everyone can see it though, I know everyone's interested.

falm
15-12-2017, 11:19
Still not sure if I'll get the development information in the thread or PM'd. I'd prefer thread so everyone can see it though, I know everyone's interested.

I'll help you out with a first answer, but I'm not a developer.


As for physics, how did you and your team detail the cars so accurately? ...
Real world drivers like Nick Hamilton, Ben Collins were working as driving consultants. Chris Goodwin (McLaren’s chief test-driver) gave extensive feedback for McLaren and they even did a Video on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zahylLQnYh0

Here also one for Porsche: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6-X5_CC6IE

And in case you're into Corvette's, this is the one to check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCK6QQrMsIg


And finally a post from Watson Wu on recording sound for two of the Rallycross cars.
http://www.watsonwu.com/blog/2017/9/18/project-car2

cag
15-12-2017, 13:50
And in case you're into Corvette's, this is the one to check out


Watched the video, but in the game the C7 Z06 street car is nothing like the real Z06,

There was no input from Tommy for the C7 Z06 street car.

The C7R car that tommy helped with reflects the results in the game , but the street version (C7 Z06) for me is a very sad simulation.

Throttle control vs engine response is completely faked, too much engine response vs pedal travel, the car also over brakes with little pedal effort. With ABS this tires don't lock as in the game. (Using the realistic settings in the game).

I give the C7 Z06 street car a big thumbs down. Now this is me comparing my real world experience with the C7 Z06 street car driving at Spring Mountain Track (USA) (real race track) vs the game.

Zaskarspants
15-12-2017, 14:52
Watched the video, but in the game the C7 Z06 street car is nothing like the real Z06,

There was no input from Tommy for the C7 Z06 street car.

The C7R car that tommy helped with reflects the results in the game , but the street version (C7 Z06) for me is a very sad simulation.

Throttle control vs engine response is completely faked, too much engine response vs pedal travel, the car also over brakes with little pedal effort. With ABS this tires don't lock as in the game. (Using the realistic settings in the game).

I give the C7 Z06 street car a big thumbs down. Now this is me comparing my real world experience with the C7 Z06 street car driving at Spring Mountain Track (USA) (real race track) vs the game.

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but did you raise this issue previously? I recall it was all thrashed out at length on another thread recently ?

Brandon Pisz
16-12-2017, 13:10
Honestly I think it's safe to say we won't be getting that information.

traind
16-12-2017, 13:36
Lmao. Oh great, another Assetto Corsa player who's surprised by the reality that cars do not handle anything like they do in Assetto Corsa. Sorry to have to break it to you like this but:

Assetto Corsa is RUBBISH.

The only people who praise Assetto Corsa are the people who play it. i.e. videogamers who have't the slightest clue about automotive simulation. The vast majority seem to be children who think FFB and physics are some way some how related. Lol. I see that all the time, and it boggles my mind. I cannot fathom how anyone on planet Earth could think FFB is an indicator of a good vehicle physics simulation. It's quite comical really.

Assetto Corsa has fake and unrealistic FFB effects pumped into all the cars, and although it can feel very nice to some, it's just not realistic. Then there's the physics... Oh boy, the physics... The only thing Assetto Corsa is good for is drifting. Aside from that, it's useless as an actual driving simulator. Certainly useless when compared to the likes of rFactor 2, and Project Cars.

Even Project Cars 1 has a far more realistic suspension and tyre model than Assetto Corsa. In Assetto Corsa, tyres lose grip terribly unrealistically, and aside from their very unrealistic tendency to slide around, the cars are glued to the road.

You know I've tried Assetto Corsa many times. I keep coming across all these internet comments by people with chips on their shoulder talking about how much better Assetto Corsa is than rF2, iRacing, Project Cars, etc. and when trying Assetto Corsa I can't help but feel as though Kunos is paying people to troll the internet posting such nonsense.

I tried the BMW M4 just two weeks ago in Assetto Corsa, boy oh boy was I disappointed. It felt NOTHING like any M4 I've ever driven, and I've driven 3 different M4s, as well as 2 M3s. First thing I notice is the FFB. It's ridiculous. A real BMW M4 has very poor FFB, yet in Assetto Corsa I feel all kinds of things. Then there's the car's ability to turn. It's just so different from the real thing. Often it becomes unpredictable for no reason.

I don't care for close minded fanboys and the AC community certainly has some. But most sims do. People complain about the very same thing with regard to PC2. And, to be frank, the extreme's of your post make you sound like one too.

I have driven an M4 at and over the tire grip limit on a road course in both dry and wet conditions..... and I do not find the M4 in AC to be poorly done. Of course no sim will get real cars perfect and there is no comparison to the real thing. My poor rig gets less attention after a track day, lol. I would like to hear you describe what you think makes the AC M4 so bad because I am not buying it.

Apoov
16-12-2017, 15:50
Lmao. Oh great, another Assetto Corsa player who's surprised by the reality that cars do not handle anything like they do in Assetto Corsa. Sorry to have to break it to you like this but:

Assetto Corsa is RUBBISH.

The only people who praise Assetto Corsa are the people who play it. i.e. videogamers who have't the slightest clue about automotive simulation. The vast majority seem to be children who think FFB and physics are some way some how related. Lol. I see that all the time, and it boggles my mind. I cannot fathom how anyone on planet Earth could think FFB is an indicator of a good vehicle physics simulation. It's quite comical really.

Assetto Corsa has fake and unrealistic FFB effects pumped into all the cars, and although it can feel very nice to some, it's just not realistic. Then there's the physics... Oh boy, the physics... The only thing Assetto Corsa is good for is drifting. Aside from that, it's useless as an actual driving simulator. Certainly useless when compared to the likes of rFactor 2, and Project Cars.

Even Project Cars 1 has a far more realistic suspension and tyre model than Assetto Corsa. In Assetto Corsa, tyres lose grip terribly unrealistically, and aside from their very unrealistic tendency to slide around, the cars are glued to the road.

You know I've tried Assetto Corsa many times. I keep coming across all these internet comments by people with chips on their shoulder talking about how much better Assetto Corsa is than rF2, iRacing, Project Cars, etc. and when trying Assetto Corsa I can't help but feel as though Kunos is paying people to troll the internet posting such nonsense.

I tried the BMW M4 just two weeks ago in Assetto Corsa, boy oh boy was I disappointed. It felt NOTHING like any M4 I've ever driven, and I've driven 3 different M4s, as well as 2 M3s. First thing I notice is the FFB. It's ridiculous. A real BMW M4 has very poor FFB, yet in Assetto Corsa I feel all kinds of things. Then there's the car's ability to turn. It's just so different from the real thing. Often it becomes unpredictable for no reason.

So you've driven the BMWs irl? To my knowledge there's no FFB in a real car... LOL.

Brandon Pisz
16-12-2017, 16:29
So you've driven the BMWs irl? To my knowledge there's no FFB in a real car... LOL.

That's exactly why I've set my FFB to \/

RAW
Gain - 70
Volume - 90
Tone - 35
FX - 0
Menu Spring Strength - 0.05
It feels the most realistic for me by far.

Urban Chaos 2.0
16-12-2017, 20:48
So you've driven the BMWs irl? To my knowledge there's no FFB in a real car... LOL.

What are you talking about?


I don't care for close minded fanboys and the AC community certainly has some. But most sims do. People complain about the very same thing with regard to PC2. And, to be frank, the extreme's of your post make you sound like one too.

I have driven an M4 at and over the tire grip limit on a road course in both dry and wet conditions..... and I do not find the M4 in AC to be poorly done. Of course no sim will get real cars perfect and there is no comparison to the real thing. My poor rig gets less attention after a track day, lol. I would like to hear you describe what you think makes the AC M4 so bad because I am not buying it.

The only thing about AC's M4 which is in any way similar to the real thing is the engine sound, and the blip you get when lifting off the throttle. Everything else, as I've explained, is very poorly done. Have you driven an M4? As stated, I have. Let's talk about what exactly you think is well represented about ACs M4. Surely it will be interesting to read, lol.

Brandon Pisz
16-12-2017, 22:53
What are you talking about?



The only thing about AC's M4 which is in any way similar to the real thing is the engine sound, and the blip you get when lifting off the throttle. Everything else, as I've explained, is very poorly done. Have you driven an M4? As stated, I have. Let's talk about what exactly you think is well represented about ACs M4. Surely it will be interesting to read, lol.

Heyyyyyyy Urban, I see you on YouTube! Its "Wheel Spin - Sim.Racing" maybe you remember XD

Brandon Pisz
17-12-2017, 03:15
Also Ian, if the FXXK does end up getting added into PC2 please get these downshifts correct!
https://youtu.be/GOkJXnF2u1k
And skip to @2:11 to witness some serious porn.

Apoov
17-12-2017, 09:05
[QUOTE=Urban Chaos 2.0;1448245]What are you talking about?

There is no FFB in a real car as in a sense it's portrayed in games.
FFB is trying to give exaggerated info about the wheel slip(front and back), g-forces, bumps on the road, collisions to the body, etc... A real car's wheel won't give you that. Would be hilarious to see ordinary people on their way to the supermarket fighting the wheel as it would be ripping the arms off of the elderly 😀😀😀

It's a different discussion all together if a car handles and behaves like the irl counterpart.

rosko
17-12-2017, 09:18
There is ffb in a real car, but it varies vastly from car to car. It also feel different from what you get in a sim.

The whole idea that seems to be repeated on here so much that the ffb should feel exactly like the real car is just silly.

Urban Chaos 2.0
17-12-2017, 10:01
FFB is the result of forces influencing the tendency of the steering wheel to maintain it's angle. Period. That's what dictates what we feel in real life, and that's what will dictate what we feel in a sim, if the correct settings are chosen. I reiterate: For the Logitech G920, those settings are:

Immersive
Gain: 50%
Volume: 30%
Tone: 50%
FX: 50%

NOT Raw.

Note: that in real life, there are additional vibrations from the chassis which as well can often be felt through the wheel, and sometimes the information being received by your body from all possible points, can to some people, muddy the sensations coming from the wheel. Those sensations are still there though, and if you focus on perceiving them, you will.

In real life, we feel bumps, grip, camber of road surfaces, and even crashes, through the steering wheel. The magnitude of the forces influencing the wheel will depend on the mechanical design, and how those forces are absorbed by intermediate systems between the tyres and your hands making contact with the wheel. This is why a modern BMW M3 delivers poorer FFB than an older one. The Immersive flavour in Project Cars 2 replicates that realistically, and the variations in FFB between cars are realistically replicated as well. This is due to the manner in which Project Cars 2 acquires its FFB info. Games like Assetto Corsa cannot be as authentic, because they do not account realistically for the various forces which determine what you feel.

FFB in sims is a matter of personal preference. In Project Cars 2, you can choose to have a more informative FFB setup, a more realistic one, or something else entirely. FFB is not there to exaggerate anything, unless that's what you want. This is why really expensive direct drive wheels are a complete waste of money, except in very exceptional cases. The "Raw" FFB preset is suitable for such wheels, because such wheels are capable of delivering much, much, much more force than you would ever experience in real life. Those wheels can sometimes be quite dangerous in fact.

Zaskarspants
17-12-2017, 11:24
^^^ You are saying it is personal but that your settings are 'correct'. I think mine are more correct, it really is a personal thing.

I use informative 100, 30, 100, 100. That is vastly different to your preferences.

Every time I experiment with my ffb often after reading here, I find a new setting I prefer. I started off all heavy and dramatic with immersive default but my arms ached, and that is not my experience of real driving. My old style mini had the heaviest handling of any car I have driven but most cars do indeed have light steering, especially in the middle.

I can feel some subtle high frequency info now too and the only time the steering needs a manly twist is when things get out of shape.

Keena
17-12-2017, 11:33
And I use tone at 20 with high caster just to drop that into the mix :) I find I get excellent slip feedback using that. Each to their own.

Zaskarspants
17-12-2017, 11:44
And I use tone at 20 with high caster just to drop that into the mix :) I find I get excellent slip feedback using that. Each to their own.

Yep, the thread on ffb made me realize this and provoked further fiddling. Ian Bell's two finger Ferrari comment sent me on a quest for a lower torque wheel.

Roushman624
17-12-2017, 12:28
Also Ian, if the FXXK does end up getting added into PC2 please get these downshifts correct!
https://youtu.be/GOkJXnF2u1k
And skip to @2:11 to witness some serious porn.
That and the rev dots! Seriously I would like to see the actual rev dots.

Brandon Pisz
17-12-2017, 12:50
That and the rev dots! Seriously I would like to see the actual rev dots.

Downshifts on the FXXK are just legendary. Id be really dissapointed if they just pasted the LaFerrari note in there.

Roushman624
17-12-2017, 13:28
Downshifts on the FXXK are just legendary. Id be really dissapointed if they just pasted the LaFerrari note in there.

SMS do good with most sounds and they really nailed the laferrari in cockpit so I'm sure they will pull off the FXXK. It's one of my favorite cars but I wish we wouldn't have to wait an entire year to use it...

rosko
17-12-2017, 13:37
FFB is the result of forces influencing the tendency of the steering wheel to maintain it's angle. Period. That's what dictates what we feel in real life, and that's what will dictate what we feel in a sim, if the correct settings are chosen. I reiterate: For the Logitech G920, those settings are:

Immersive
Gain: 50%
Volume: 30%
Tone: 50%
FX: 50%

NOT Raw.

Note: that in real life, there are additional vibrations from the chassis which as well can often be felt through the wheel, and sometimes the information being received by your body from all possible points, can to some people, muddy the sensations coming from the wheel. Those sensations are still there though, and if you focus on perceiving them, you will.

In real life, we feel bumps, grip, camber of road surfaces, and even crashes, through the steering wheel. The magnitude of the forces influencing the wheel will depend on the mechanical design, and how those forces are absorbed by intermediate systems between the tyres and your hands making contact with the wheel. This is why a modern BMW M3 delivers poorer FFB than an older one. The Immersive flavour in Project Cars 2 replicates that realistically, and the variations in FFB between cars are realistically replicated as well. This is due to the manner in which Project Cars 2 acquires its FFB info. Games like Assetto Corsa cannot be as authentic, because they do not account realistically for the various forces which determine what you feel.

FFB in sims is a matter of personal preference. In Project Cars 2, you can choose to have a more informative FFB setup, a more realistic one, or something else entirely. FFB is not there to exaggerate anything, unless that's what you want. This is why really expensive direct drive wheels are a complete waste of money, except in very exceptional cases. The "Raw" FFB preset is suitable for such wheels, because such wheels are capable of delivering much, much, much more force than you would ever experience in real life. Those wheels can sometimes be quite dangerous in fact.

Can you provide some proof of this statement?

Brandon Pisz
17-12-2017, 19:07
SMS do good with most sounds and they really nailed the laferrari in cockpit so I'm sure they will pull off the FXXK. It's one of my favorite cars but I wish we wouldn't have to wait an entire year to use it...

Yup, just go back here -> https://youtu.be/GOkJXnF2u1k
and skip to 2:11.... Thats what I wanna hear in replays! If they can nail that. Im good.

Brandon Pisz
19-12-2017, 11:29
Hi Mr. Bell, if you're still monitoring this thread, could you tell us when we'll be getting the development information again?

Ian Bell
19-12-2017, 11:35
Hi Mr. Bell, if you're still monitoring this thread, could you tell us when we'll be getting the development information again?

We're not that eager to do so seeing as you joined with a pseudonym to give us some epic trolling: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59055-PHYSICS-How-realistic-are-they See we know you're using the same machine and IP...

V3nom
19-12-2017, 11:36
Ups, busted!

Brandon Pisz
19-12-2017, 11:37
We're not that eager to do so seeing as you joined with a pseudonym to give us some epic trolling: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59055-PHYSICS-How-realistic-are-they See we know you're using the same machine and IP...

I created a second account so that I could ask a second time about the physics without seeming too annoying about it. I sent a message to a moderator explaining that as well. I appologize, and I meant no harm by it.

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-12-2017, 11:37
We're not that eager to do so seeing as you joined with a pseudonym to give us some epic trolling: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59055-PHYSICS-How-realistic-are-they See we know you're using the same machine and IP...

lol, I knew there was something fishy about him!

Brandon Pisz
19-12-2017, 11:40
lol, I knew there was something fishy about him!

To be fair Urban, I didnt really care if anyone knew exactly that it was the same person, Im just very sceptical about a game claiming to be so realistic. Others get such high praise, but the only praise I ever see is on the Project CARS website itself.

Ian Bell
19-12-2017, 11:44
To be fair Urban, I didnt really care if anyone knew exactly that it was the same person, Im just very sceptical about a game claiming to be so realistic. Others get such high praise, but the only praise I ever see is on the Project CARS website itself.

OK enough trolling now.

Multiple joins are against forum rules.

Urban Chaos 2.0
19-12-2017, 11:51
To be fair Urban, I didnt really care if anyone knew exactly that it was the same person, Im just very sceptical about a game claiming to be so realistic. Others get such high praise, but the only praise I ever see is on the Project CARS website itself.

Because the people praising those "others" are PAID TO DO SO! Most notably Assetto Corsa and iRacing shills. Secondly: those sims' administrators do everything in their power to silence dissent against them. They're propaganda machines. That's all they are. It's why their "users" go around bashing other sims (project cars mostly) all over the internet, because they have ulterior motives. They aren't genuine "reviewers". They create fake accounts (like you seem to love doing), and go all over the internet bashing project cars. If they're not being paid, then there is something very wrong with them. I know quite a few are being paid though.

But most importantly: If, for whatever reason, you prefer other sims, WHY ARE YOU HERE?! It seems your sole purpose is to try and discredit this sim by making funny posts with fake accounts. The same thing the aforementioned shills are doing. It makes no sense. You know, I hate Assetto Corsa. Most unrealistic sim I've ever tried. It's just like gran Turismo 5. Yes, Assetto Corsa is that bad. But do you see me on their facebook page, or forum, posting rubbish there? No. Because I prefer Project Cars 2. I stay away from them, because I don't like anything about them or their product(s).

So... the premise of your defence is poorly founded. Quite clearly, you have nothing but ulterior motives.