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WellRED Barron
23-11-2017, 20:13
I’m new to this. I mean, if you look at the hundreds of hours I have put into the game already, you wouldn’t think I was new. Could have beat Witcher 3 and its expansions twice by now.

But... sim racing is like learning to play a musical instrument well. You need the proper setup AND you need to practice... practice... practice.

Every long term sim racer knows this thing. The beginner’s learning curve is hard to surmount. It is the first and toughest hurdle. Once you put the time in, future sims become easier to adjust to and properly evaluate.

So what helps you get into the groove? What forms of practice? What pieces of equipment really raised your game?


Basically, what did you do to be able to go online and compete without upsetting all your opponents? How do you suggest you most efficiently learn how to race?

Any links or input would be greatly appreciated.

Nyreen
23-11-2017, 20:25
I know some people will flood you of very informative threads / links / topics to raise your driving skills. But on a more personal subject, what do you know about racing in general ?

I'm quite competitive right now, and I've got a wheel since two months "only". Of course I did learn A LOT in that spare time, but I already was a long-term motorsport fan and car enthusiast, interested myself in the proper way to spiritedly ride my motorcycle when I got it earlier this year (knee down, proper shifting, trail-braking, body position, levers etc), the only thing I remember from my childhood certainly is playing Gran Turismo on my father's lap. I finally took a step up in my lifetime video-gaming addiction by owning a wheel (sad thing, I used to like Forza until now).

But yeah, if you're completely new to motorport, you will sink yourself into a giant world. As a professionnal musician and self-educated, it's the exact same feeling and passion that drives you on watching hours and hours of YouTube videos to teach yourself techniques you'll take weeks to understand and years to master.

Jaood
23-11-2017, 20:57
https://yousuckatracing.wordpress.com/first-timers/ this blog has many many good posts..

Something i should have done in hindsight is training of shoulders and back and generally more fitness. Also the mental side is very important maybe there are ways to gain in that regard.

What really helped my fighting skills is finding a group of guys you can race with almost every day.
You can drive so differently if you can trust your fellow racers and fight hard but fair. What happens now online is that i lay back a bit (as much as time allows, sprint races need more agression) try to quickly judge them and act accordingly (expect their errors, see the safe pass).

I always went were the fun is and squeeze a bit of "training" in here and there. Have still way too much to learn regarding setups its ridicioulus. Although i think i know what everything does i struggle so hard to feel what exactly is wrong and often fare better with modified setups of others.
But i see the light, many cars im already good with my own stup and its mainly gt3 and high formula/lmp i struggle with. It's a steep learning curve in the beginning and practise practise practise/learning techniques/time is the rest.

Funny enough i got to motorsports through simracing and now follow some series.. maybe it helps with the driving but i guess its the appreciation of the insane skill this guys display :D

hkraft300
23-11-2017, 21:09
I’ve always tinkered, delved into tuning. Learned about the car as much as I could to find any tuning tips/ directions. Searching for consistency in the car, driveability, every tenth...

Forget it.

The one thing that net the biggest gains, by several seconds for me, is correct driving line and technique.
Don’t overdrive the car. Don’t brake at the last possible moment to barely make the turn. Forget the car, learn the track.

Find your marks, hit the apex and concentrate on a good exit.

John Hargreaves
23-11-2017, 21:37
I'd say number one thing is get set up with a wheel, the G29/920 is great for the money.

WellRED Barron
23-11-2017, 21:41
I know some people will flood you of very informative threads / links / topics to raise your driving skills. But on a more personal subject, what do you know about racing in general ?

I'm quite competitive right now, and I've got a wheel since two months "only". Of course I did learn A LOT in that spare time, but I already was a long-term motorsport fan and car enthusiast, interested myself in the proper way to spiritedly ride my motorcycle when I got it earlier this year (knee down, proper shifting, trail-braking, body position, levers etc), the only thing I remember from my childhood certainly is playing Gran Turismo on my father's lap. I finally took a step up in my lifetime video-gaming addiction by owning a wheel (sad thing, I used to like Forza until now).

But yeah, if you're completely new to motorport, you will sink yourself into a giant world. As a professionnal musician and self-educated, it's the exact same feeling and passion that drives you on watching hours and hours of YouTube videos to teach yourself techniques you'll take weeks to understand and years to master.

My first real hurdle was learning to adjust to, and ultimately love RWD. My ‘63 Beetle and 96 Chevy S-10 didn’t prepare me for the throttle control and braking differences when the power isn’t on the turning wheels. So keeping the rear on the tar was my first lesson. Usually, I have driven AWD cars, so Rally conditions and dirt/mud? Plenty of real life experience. Tarmac in RWD? Very little.

So I set the AI difficulty too high, and spent a good month on the Ginetta Jr getting up to snuff... learning to trail brake and keep those rear wheels glued to the track unless I wanted to swing the rear. And Then, once I got through that, I have worked my way through career at a slightly easier AI difficulty. I’m at GT3 right now, having a blast.

But yeah, I mean, I have a new wheel, new TV, and working on those configurations... working on perfecting my lines and braking by sight/feel... working on FOV... settings. You know? Stuff you work out before moving to tuning.

And if I compare my driving to where I was when the game first came out, it is night and day... but my lap times are still inconsistent and any race over 10 minutes really tests my focus.

I’m in heaven. This is fun to learn.

But mainly, I don’t feel consistent enough yet to be anything other than a danger to others online.

Most of my racing experience in game form is from Forza titles, and they do teach you a lot, but they also teach some bad technique in the process. To be good at Forza, you have to bend the rules of reality a bit. You know? I adore Forza for what it is, but it is NOT a sim, and it doesn’t bring those sim-like challenges.

I’ll stop typing for now.

WellRED Barron
23-11-2017, 21:43
I'd say number one thing is get set up with a wheel, the G29/920 is great for the money.

Absolutely true. A wheel is perhaps the best first purchase you can make, then a monitor large enough for proper FOV (or VR). Once you feel like you are in the car, the weight transfer becomes far more intuitive.

hkraft300
23-11-2017, 21:47
... but my lap times are still inconsistent and any race over 10 minutes really tests my focus..

Consistency is what really differentiate mortals and race drivers. With a bit of practice you can get within a few tenths of a pro race driver, maybe even beat him.
However , he will do the same time, within .5 seconds or less difference for 4 hours.

Focus, concentrate, get consistent. The only way to do that is do long races.

In public mp most races are ~10 minutes long. League races 30-60 minutes. Some leagues will go 90-120 minutes races.

Nyreen
23-11-2017, 22:08
I also had the struggle in single player to stay focused enough to not make any mistake. I had a quite strong AI difficulty, and any mistake would be a lost race. I especially remember a 20 minutes GT4 race on Nurb GP. I cross the line at 19.59, meaning I need to do one lap more. Spun first corner, couldn't handle the pressure of the AI behind me this whole time, fighting my way and learning both the M3 GT4 and my H-shifter.

Multiplayer really helped me a lot to push these boundaries further than I could imagine. MP games always do that to me. I remember my first Call of Duty : Modern Warfare quick game...
Wait who gives a crap ? Anyway, I went on to try some multiplayer stuff and was blown away by how fast some guys were, but also how fast I could be. It clicked that I had the potential to be quicker if two weeks of training on my wheel got me a few poles already.
It took me four days to get from 1.33.00 on RBR in the Ferrari GT3 to below the 1:30 mark. It took me a month to get below 1:29. That's how tough it is, but as I progress, I also gain racecraft, consistency and trust into the car and how I handle & tune it.
I can now manage to race for 15 laps with the certainty of being - at the start of what I would call - consistent. On RBR, I'll fiddle around 1.29,5 and 1.30, while there's a bit much difference on tracks I'm not as confident yet (like Monza, but chicanes are black cats).

A long, long way...

ant1897
23-11-2017, 22:09
Consistency is what really differentiate mortals and race drivers. With a bit of practice you can get within a few tenths of a pro race driver, maybe even beat him.
However , he will do the same time, within .5 seconds or less difference for 4 hours.

Focus, concentrate, get consistent. The only way to do that is do long races.

In public mp most races are ~10 minutes long. League races 30-60 minutes. Some leagues will go 90-120 minutes races.


Or 180 minutes :cool: lol...

Honestly, the best way to learn is to just turn lap after lap after lap. Learn the track. Learn proper racing techniques, lines, etc. The setups will come later down the line. Don't go crazy on expensive equipement, wheels, etc. Just a decent wheel is important. Some of the fastest guys I know play on computer chairs at their desk. on 20'' monitors.

Hlspwn
23-11-2017, 22:11
It's a difficult one to answer. On line I have little to no experience in project cars. Most of my time is spent on time trials or messing around in road cars.
Recently I have started to learn my race craft. I honestly think the best advise is to race the AI on a level where you can keep pace with the pack, but qualify near the rear. See if you can work your way near the front. If your not sure about the track follow the AI and watch there lines and braking points. As you get more confident try out braking them and going for the over takes. If you get past but loose the position coming out the corner you most likely went in to fast, so start to learn to adjust your speed.
My biggest recent downfall has been getting to greedy on the last few laps. Racing through the pack almost catching the top 3 cars, and still going at it like a maniac on the last lap. Ben ringing in my ears just bring the car home now, but I want to win, and then trying to hard have a small off and loose a lot of positions or end up coming last, throwing a very good race away.
As I have been improving I qualify first a lot, but equally find this difficult as well, as its hard to keep a consistent pace. Drive every lap like a qually lap and I will end up going off. Drive to slow and you have everything swarming all over you, any little mistake looses places. I suppose what I am saying is experience goes a long way.

One of the last parts of the puzzle is equipment and talent. I use a wheel stand pro a G27, and a Costco chair. Not the most comfortable setup up in the world. Because its packed neatly out the way, my setup can change very slightly every time I race, not the best for consistency. A rig would be a permanent setup and should not change, but I do not have room for that so I have to make do. I also think people like my self not racing with VR are also at a disadvantage.

But with all that said it also boils down to talent. Take the recent beat the pro event. The last time I looked I was in 18th place. That's around 4 sec off the pros time. In the real world that's a night and day differences. But I was quite pleased as its the very first time I had raced the track and car, and I was a few seconds off clucks time. I use him as a bench mark as he is bloody quick.
But was I happy with that hell no. I want to be on the front page. But with all the attempts and tuning I could not improve my time, for now I'll had ran out of talent. Is it my driving style or lack of left foot braking. Who knows, I might just not have it in me to be the best. But what I love about Project CARS is the challenge and i won't give up. When your on a fast lap you know you are, because it like being on the edge of your seat, do or die. If your hitting apexs and just getting around your not going fast enough

WellRED Barron
23-11-2017, 22:17
Amen to that fast lap = edge of your seat feeling.

I think PC2 really nails that feeling of being on the edge of a car’s limits, just within the realm of control.

poirqc
24-11-2017, 02:03
Drive the slower cars first, they're really fun and makes you understand the limit of a car, while not happening too fast.

WellRED Barron
24-11-2017, 03:26
I really want a Miata in this game. Well, Miatas... would love road and spec versions. I mean, the Rad Bull is kinda’ crazy.

hkraft300
24-11-2017, 06:17
Drive the slower cars first, they're really fun and makes you understand the limit of a car, while not happening too fast.

+1
The Caterham classic was marvellous in pc1. Couldn't drive it on the gamepad but once I got a wheel: wow. Everything happens in slow motion almost so you learn the slip angles and car behaviour.

It's why skid pan training is highly rated for real racers.


I really want a Miata in this game. Well, Miatas... would love road and spec versions. I mean, the Rad Bull is kinda’ crazy.

Until then you have the Ginetta junior :)

WellRED Barron
24-11-2017, 06:58
Yeah, the Jr. is the same idea, very much so. Better in most ways. Still, I am just wishing for more content like we do...

Callumatic
25-11-2017, 13:41
Not sure if you know this but you can be horrible at qualifying (like me) and still put in respectable finishing positions. It's all about never giving up. There's only one track where I'm moderately on pace with pro drivers and it's not on pCars 2. Everywhere else I'm significantly slower but that doesn't stop me from trying.

When I first started about 3-4 years ago with a wheel I did feel overwhelmed and had to think about everything I done. Now most of the time it's subconscious and I don't think about it. At one point I was racing an Aston Martin GT3 around Nordschleife roughly between the 6 and 7 km mark. It felt like I hit the apexes so well I thought there were some sort of driving assists on. Turns out there was nothing like steering help or braking help. Felt like Senna's quote: "And suddenly I realised that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension." Probably still took the apexes horribly compared to pros and people who race there for real.

Anyway. I know a lot of people say this but it's true. Keep on practicing. It is a better idea to start in a low powered car. If you can be fast in a low powered car like an MX5, you can be fast in anything. Wheel is a must and is the bare minimum outside of a seat, computer and monitor. Also, if you don't know what you're doing, don't mess with setups (Learnt the hard way). You now have a race engineer who does that stuff so let them do the dirty work while you get the glory. ;)

luv2drive
25-11-2017, 14:39
I'd say number one thing is get set up with a wheel, the G29/920 is great for the money.

Couldn't agree more with the above statement!

My first foray into SIM racing was several years ago. I bought a PS3 because I'm a movie-buff and wanted a Blu-Ray player :) After a year or so, I decided I should try out a game. I've always enjoyed driving and racing video games so I picked up GT5.

I played it for about two hours with a controller before I decided I must have a wheel. That decision changed my life. To this day I'm truly amazed at the guys that can play for hours with a controller. I'm sure part of it is financial, or maybe if your'e a true gamer at heart (I'm not), then the controller becomes an extension of your hand. Either way, for enjoying a racing SIM, I think a wheel is probably the best investment you can make. Just the pure enjoyment of it, to feel like you're actually racing (VR is the next thing on the horizon that seems like it might fit this bill - I'm very much considering it).

In any case, besides all that, the rest is just up to practice, practice, practice. Unlike a lot of GT and PCars enthusiasts, I don't have any real-world racing experience, just a love for driving, hence my nick. But with lots of practice and reading a little more on the forums about proper driving technique, etc., I've managed to get the point where I can turn in some respectable lap times. I'm not an alien or anything like that, I think that just takes raw talent, but I feel like I've learned a lot about proper racing lines, technique, etc.

Next thing is online racing - I've pretty much exclusively been an offline racer, being a little apprehensive about jumping in with improper etiquette due to my pure ignorance, but I'm going to be venturing into this realm shortly as well.

Good luck and enjoy what is truly the most realistic SIM out there! ...even with a few warts that seemingly going to be addressed... #realsoon :p