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View Full Version : Post Patch AI - No overtaking, just cruzing along?



tectur
28-11-2017, 16:59
Hi guys, one thing regarding the AI in the newest patch.
They are veery calm. Even at 100% Aggression they just form a line and follow each other. You can see fast cars just following slower cars (in the same class) without any fight or trying to overtake.
But that's my observation, what's yours?

V3nom
28-11-2017, 17:05
In my opinion this was the case before the patch too. If I crashed or slowed down because I had to let someone through, then the AI slowed down massively too.

julia-6
28-11-2017, 17:28
Yes this was extremely annoying. I did a bad last night at Portugal and had to give back 8th and pulled far to the right. They wouldn't pass. so I slowed. They wouldn't pass. By the way it was a straight section. I slowed more. Finally they decided that there were enough cars behind them and I'd lose 5 places so the group zipped by, and by that time i'd lost 10 seconds on the car I was chasing. I was almost tempted to say **** it and just drive it out and make my mandatory pit stop.

Of course the alternative I guess is Forza's system where the AI pretends you're not even there and sends you to the morgue.

Writing AI algorithms is hard and we're not there yet. They don't think like humans... and we really don't want that. Although some shoving matches in the pits after the race might be fun....

SpeedyMcQuick
28-11-2017, 18:08
Writing AI algorithms is hard and we're not there yet. They don't think like humans... and we really don't want that.

I want that! The less like consistent bots and the more like real human behavior with all it's variety would be great! Yes there are times when humans do stupid or bad things on the track that can hurt the race for you, but this A.I. already does that. (Note: I haven't experienced 3.0 A.I. yet)

ptempo
28-11-2017, 18:38
OP got banned for that post?

Hilazza
28-11-2017, 18:49
Why on earth did you ban the OP?

giharding
28-11-2017, 18:50
Should've been lynched too. Bang out of order.

Bealdor
28-11-2017, 18:52
He wasn't banned for this.
You guys don't see what we see (including rejoin accounts of previously banned members...).

iggy
28-11-2017, 18:52
They probably know more about the person that posted that , than we do. Most likely a valid reason ( like new name coming from a IP address that has been used a lot already)

Cladandadum
28-11-2017, 18:56
And now the OP is spouting off on reddit and winding others up about how harsh this forum is. I guess it's mission accomplished from his perspective.

Chicken Patty
28-11-2017, 19:07
Anyways, I just did a race after the patch and the AI was great. Did a IMSA style multi class. LMP2, LMP3, GTE, GT3 at Daytona. I was 2nd in GTE to start, I could see the LMP's battling for position up ahead, one of them even got loose coming out of the chicane on the back straight, caused some slow traffic behind them so me and the first place GTE caught up to them. We battled with them for about half a lap which eventually being faster they over took both of us and things got sorted out. I swapped places with the first place GTE car a few times, I mean, not sure how much better I'd want the AI to be in my opinion. There may be cases that they don't react "human" I guess, but for the most part, it's damn good in my eyes.

GAT_Montana
28-11-2017, 19:10
Hell...you guys are right...following a 20 lap race as spectator on Silverstone. 30 cars, no overtaking. Not even a try to overtake. Interesting find. A bit boring, no? I miss the (crazy) human like behaviour from PC 1. It was so much fun to fight using all the available surface around :) So much more alive than this.

And they still hit my back on straight, if I am to slow....

maTech
28-11-2017, 19:11
Anyways, I just did a race after the patch and the AI was great. Did a IMSA style multi class. LMP2, LMP3, GTE, GT3 at Daytona. I was 2nd in GTE to start, I could see the LMP's battling for position up ahead, one of them even got loose coming out of the chicane on the back straight, caused some slow traffic behind them so me and the first place GTE caught up to them. We battled with them for about half a lap which eventually being faster they over took both of us and things got sorted out. I swapped places with the first place GTE car a few times, I mean, not sure how much better I'd want the AI to be in my opinion. There may be cases that they don't react "human" I guess, but for the most part, it's damn good in my eyes.

Driving the Ligier JS P2 Honda is so much fun now, I don't know why but it feels so unbelievable good and it seems the car has now the right speed. But the AI seems to be very slow in LMP2 cars. I tested it at Daytona Road Course at 85% strength. On straight parts of the track it felt like they were driving a gt4 instead of a lmp2. Is it possible to give them another setup? Or is the ai able to develop a setup during practice? Did you notice the same problem?

GAT_Montana
28-11-2017, 19:13
@edit

Now there is a car with a technical problem, driving half the usual speed and 15 cars are following ultra slowly. :( It takes decades that they overtake the slow car.

Chicken Patty
28-11-2017, 19:18
Driving the Ligier JS P2 Honda is so much fun now, I don't know why but it feels so unbelievable good and it seems the car has now the right speed. But the AI seems to be very slow in LMP2 cars. I tested it at Daytona Road Course at 85% strength. On straight parts of the track it felt like they were driving a gt4 instead of a lmp2. Is it possible to give them another setup? Or is the ai able to develop a setup during practice? Did you notice the same problem?

I did not. I was using AI at 97%, and aggression at 65%. LMP2, and even LMP3's were blowing my doors off lol. I found out very well balanced in my race.

maTech
28-11-2017, 19:22
I did not. I was using AI at 97%, and aggression at 65%. LMP2, and even LMP3's were blowing my doors off lol. I found out very well balanced in my race.

Thanks for your reply. I will try it with 97%. Sounds like you had a very good race and much fun :)

Keena
28-11-2017, 19:23
Does anyone know if theres a correlation between AI overtaking and the AI aggression slider? I haven't explored that yet and if the AI are not overtaking each other with gusto then it might be that..?

Chicken Patty
28-11-2017, 19:26
I know this varies person to person, but I never noticed the AI to be as bad as most people complained about in the sense of overtaking and battling. However, I notice I usually run more aggression and AI strength than most people. Not saying I'm a better driver, I just like more of a challenge and I think that not finishing first all the time makes me a better driver. So I'm okay with not being at the front of the field. But I think the reward has been that I've gotten a more realistic experience with the AI maybe? Try that and see....

V3nom
28-11-2017, 19:30
@Keena

I'm pretty sure it has no relation to the aggression slider. I play on 90 aggression and they do not pass me on a straight if I slow down. I mean they pass me but like others said, they don't pass before you become a snail.

Keena
28-11-2017, 19:39
Ahh ok. Just a thought.

Kitt
28-11-2017, 19:39
found this to be a problem pre-patch, unfortunately doen't look like it's going to be a quick or easy fix

V3nom
28-11-2017, 19:41
OpenAi and Project Cars 2 would be the icing on the cake. :D

3800racingfool
28-11-2017, 19:48
Curious as to what everyone is playing at Aggression-wise. Haven't played the patch yet myself but I've noticed that in 1.2 and prior that anything below 70 Aggression tends to be like a funeral procession (as many here have stated) and at anything below ~35 they'll practically pull over for you to go by (which, when you apply that to all of the AI cars is why you see instances where they're driving slowly and won't pass each other). 70+ however, they'll definitely take their chances when they get them.

Fight-Test
28-11-2017, 19:55
And now the OP is spouting off on reddit and winding others up about how harsh this forum is. I guess it's mission accomplished from his perspective.

Probably "civic" he did same last time banned. Pretty pathetic

Chicken Patty
28-11-2017, 19:57
Curious as to what everyone is playing at Aggression-wise. Haven't played the patch yet myself but I've noticed that in 1.2 and prior that anything below 70 Aggression tends to be like a funeral procession (as many here have stated) and at anything below ~35 they'll practically pull over for you to go by (which, when you apply that to all of the AI cars is why you see instances where they're driving slowly and won't pass each other). 70+ however, they'll definitely take their chances when they get them.

I use 65% before and after the patch.

ptempo
28-11-2017, 20:19
And now the OP is spouting off on reddit and winding others up about how harsh this forum is. I guess it's mission accomplished from his perspective.

That's why I asked. Reddit is onto him now.

Keena
28-11-2017, 20:28
Curious as to what everyone is playing at Aggression-wise. Haven't played the patch yet myself but I've noticed that in 1.2 and prior that anything below 70 Aggression tends to be like a funeral procession (as many here have stated) and at anything below ~35 they'll practically pull over for you to go by (which, when you apply that to all of the AI cars is why you see instances where they're driving slowly and won't pass each other). 70+ however, they'll definitely take their chances when they get them.

I have the AI on 100% and they're not bad. They still give me space but you've got to be pretty satisfied that your planned overtake will be successful. Likewise defending can't simply be a mobile roadblock exercise. I've only run like this in rookie Clio ginetta and gt4 though. Difficulty 90 although I started out struggling with 70. Setting it high forces me to git gud.. now I'm faster and about to crank it up again I think..

Purg
28-11-2017, 21:53
Just did 2 races in Clio Cup. Snetterton in the wet and Silverstone in the dry. 105 AI and 85% Aggression. 105 post patch is just a little too fast for me now and I had no problems with AI trying to pass or them backing off when it was door to door., they were fighting for the spot. Only problem I really had was at Silverstone where the AI were a little too keen on keeping their line on the last couple of corners leading on the S/F line. They'd simply ignore that I was there trying to maintain their ideal line and almost punt me off the track.

As for passing each other, I was too busy trying to fend them off to notice. Is there telemetry output that logs AI positions per lap?

Schnizz58
28-11-2017, 21:56
Is there telemetry output that logs AI positions per lap?
There must be, otherwise things like the Crew Chief spotter wouldn't work.

GAT_Montana
28-11-2017, 23:17
Simply check the replay. Boring like an empty aquarium....

ttb57
29-11-2017, 05:20
I don't usually race AI but did a practice session with them in the Lotus 49 @ Monza historic in heavy rain and it was great fun. They were very attacking without causing dramas. The only thing I noticed is when I managed to pass one they seem to give up and become a distant dot in the mirror quite quickly.

Kebabfelix
29-11-2017, 06:02
Congrats all you guys who complained AI was tough. It's now nerfed and unrealistic, if you want to feel like a VIP driving a car then you succeed.

I personally loved the aggressive AI that would simulate real life and online gameplay, people think AI is bad for overtaking you when you suck? People think AI is bad because you don't know what a racing line is and when to overtake and not.

Now they always let you by.

I always ran 100% aggressiveness and never thought it was too aggressive, now it's ruined.

ttb57
29-11-2017, 06:17
Did peeps complain that they were tough or just wildly erratic? Like I say I've only had a couple of runs with them and today they were aggressive but clean(at least in the rain).

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 11:40
I did a bit of testing with latest AI last night and they seemed really good, I think the trick is setting their ability so that the AI times match your own laptime, and that takes a bit of trial and error to find the sweet spot. I agree though that once you have made a move stick they can be a bit defeatist and they seem to back off a bit, but I've had some great wheel to wheel battles several corners long that makes up for that. They are a whole lot better than any public multiplayer I've tried, I always have much more satisfying races with the AI.

Zaskarspants
29-11-2017, 11:50
I find the AI ok.

maTech
29-11-2017, 12:13
If I set ai to 100% strength does it mean they can reach laptimes which they would drive in real races or is it a number which can vary from track to track?

Bealdor
29-11-2017, 12:13
If I set ai to 100% strength does it mean they can reach laptimes which they would drive in real races or is it a number which can vary from track to track?

100% should already be a little bit quicker than RL.

Raklodder
29-11-2017, 12:24
Has there been any further discussions regarding public beta builds to help you guys test?

mister dog
29-11-2017, 12:30
This thread confuses me, on the one hand people say they are driving in a procession and do not pass at all, on the other hand people praise them and say they do pass and attack.
There must be something with the slider settings then no I suppose? Maybe it's better if we always post our speed/aggression settings as standard, so we can compare and see if that has something to do with it?

mr_belowski
29-11-2017, 12:35
When I did a bit of AI racing last night, they all just lined up nicely and did little else. Off the start line they all stayed pretty much exactly in grid-formation, so I could just drive up the middle of the 2 lines of traffic (Formula Renault @ Barcelona). Perhaps this is supposed to reduce the turn1 chaos? Whatever the reason it was a bit disappointing. They also seem much slower than they used to be

O-NO
29-11-2017, 12:40
Zhuai International Circuit with the Sauber C9. I used to race 60 skill level and 60 Aggression and have a decent race.

I'm now on 100 skill level and 100 aggresion.....I'm now approx 3 secs quicker per lap than the AI.

Started off 18th on the grid out of 31 and by lap 4 was leading and race over.

diesel97
29-11-2017, 13:12
This thread confuses me, on the one hand people say they are driving in a procession and do not pass at all, on the other hand people praise them and say they do pass and attack.
There must be something with the slider settings then no I suppose? Maybe it's better if we always post our speed/aggression settings as standard, so we can compare and see if that has something to do with it?

I think car/track combo has a lot to do with also. Maybe the open wheelers are more prone to the conga line.

Doug914
29-11-2017, 13:45
Zhuai International Circuit with the Sauber C9. I used to race 60 skill level and 60 Aggression and have a decent race.

I'm now on 100 skill level and 100 aggresion.....I'm now approx 3 secs quicker per lap than the AI.

Started off 18th on the grid out of 31 and by lap 4 was leading and race over.

I'm not sure about you pre and post patch experiences (nothing on this track changed), but this track is getting a major update in the the next patch. It'll be aprox 3 seconds a lap quicker. Just got done with it yesterday.

O-NO
29-11-2017, 13:52
I'm not sure about you pre and post patch experiences (nothing on this track changed), but this track is getting a major update in the the next patch. It'll be aprox 3 seconds a lap quicker. Just got done with it yesterday.

Interesting and good to know thanks :)

justonce68
29-11-2017, 13:54
I don't have any AI issues, i race @90%+ and aggression usually around 70%, if they feel like coming past , they generally do

Raklodder
29-11-2017, 13:55
I'm glad to hear you guys are still hard at work, tweaking and making sure we get the best gaming experience, but what breaks my heart, is having to wait for fixes that should have worked from the start.

diesel97
29-11-2017, 14:09
I'm glad to hear you guys are still hard at work, tweaking and making sure we get the best gaming experience, but what breaks my heart, is having to wait for fixes that should have worked from the start.

It works it is just called "polishing" not working means you can't start or finish a race. No need for a backhand jab in the back

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 14:15
I just ask myself whether I'd rather be playing today and accept the odd rough edge now and again, or would I prefer to wait another six months and get a 'perfect' experience.

Haiden
29-11-2017, 14:30
Writing AI algorithms is hard and we're not there yet. They don't think like humans... and we really don't want that. Although some shoving matches in the pits after the race might be fun....

Yes... It's so hard that other sims do it just fine--R3E, AC, rF2, etc. It's just... so hard. :rolleyes:

Kitt
29-11-2017, 14:31
This thread confuses me, on the one hand people say they are driving in a procession and do not pass at all, on the other hand people praise them and say they do pass and attack.
There must be something with the slider settings then no I suppose? Maybe it's better if we always post our speed/aggression settings as standard, so we can compare and see if that has something to do with it?

think it's more to do with different car/track combos, did few quick races last night and the AI was brilliant, racing and pushing each other off the track and pulling some clever overtaking manoeuvers on me as well [difficulty @55 aggression @70] ...some of the best AI I've seen, just hope it's better on the career races after the patch

diesel97
29-11-2017, 14:33
Yes... It's so hard that other sims do it just fine--R3E, AC, rF2, etc. It's just... so hard. :rolleyes:

So nobody is on the other forums bitching about AI?

mister dog
29-11-2017, 14:53
So nobody is on the other forums bitching about AI?
Nah all those games were perfect from day 1 :).

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 14:57
My favourite was the first iteration of AC AI, I could stay ahead against any car in my Fiat 500 no problem, just start at the front and they very politely knew their place.

Meekychunky
29-11-2017, 15:06
I'm 3 events into a career mode and the AI wrecks my Ginetta G40 Junior driving out of the pits at Knockhill. By this I mean it drives straight into a structure jutting out from the pit wall, backs-up and goes on a rampage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5HSth2iDvY

Is there some way I can drive out of the pits myself? Or move to a pit box which doesn't have obstacles nearby?

I'm playing on PC with patch 1.3 installed btw.

V3nom
29-11-2017, 15:11
Video is unavailable

Meekychunky
29-11-2017, 15:13
Video is unavailable

Apologies - should be visible now

V3nom
29-11-2017, 15:16
Wow that's F. funny! :D
Was that the AI perspective or the Auto Pit On?

Meekychunky
29-11-2017, 15:18
Was that the AI perspective or the Auto Pit On?

I'm not sure what you mean. I'd started a practise session, and this was the AI trying to get out onto the track (my perspective in VR) - is there a way to turn AI off so I can drive out of the pitbox and onto the track myself?

Haiden
29-11-2017, 15:23
So nobody is on the other forums bitching about AI?

That's not even what I said.


Nah all those games were perfect from day 1 :).

Again, not even what I said.


My favourite was the first iteration of AC AI, I could stay ahead against any car in my Fiat 500 no problem, just start at the front and they very politely knew their place.

Yes. It was bad. They snaked around the track and were way too timid. Lots of people complained. Kunos acknowledged it, and even said it was one of the things that bothered them constantly. And then... they fixed it.

Contrast: The AI in PCars1 was crap. Beyond being timid, they would cut the track and drive off track like banshees. People complained, and were give myriad excuses as to why it was. Patch after patch was released, and yet to this day that AI is insane. <--that's my favorite.

And now we have PCars2. The AI doesn't cut track or drive off road--and I'm grateful for that--but they dive bomb like crazy and are so inconsistent that SP races are a crap shoot between boredom and frustration.

mister dog
29-11-2017, 15:23
I'm not sure what you mean. I'd started a practise session, and this was the AI trying to get out onto the track (my perspective in VR) - is there a way to turn AI off so I can drive out of the pitbox and onto the track myself?
Yes enable manual driving in the pits, it's in gameplay options if I remember right.

mister dog
29-11-2017, 15:27
@Haiden AC's AI has only been very good since Stefano last tweaked it this year, before it was hit and miss also. Remember that most games don't have the added variables of weather or multi class for example, if we would have stale dry environments only in PC2 also, I bet the AI would have been on point already all round.

RomKnight
29-11-2017, 15:28
Yes... It's so hard that other sims do it just fine--R3E, AC, rF2, etc. It's just... so hard. :rolleyes:

It took 3 year for Kunos to solve the live axle...

Let's not even go to rF2 and dx9... and it's not like r3E got it right either with missing features. iR called iceracing for a reason for years.

And none even had (bar rF2 but still not perfect either) have sim aspects dynamically working like night/day, wetness, wind, dirt, ... working with a dynamic tyre model that doesn't even need separate low speed algorithms...

;)

It's still hard to simulate something though... it's just that SMS pushed the envelope (again). It's like, anyone can use BTM now as tyre model as it's settled for years by many (devs and modders)... You can't say the same for STM.

And this is just one example. Now tie the above all together.

Meekychunky
29-11-2017, 15:32
Yes enable manual driving in the pits, it's in gameplay options if I remember right.

Awesome! Setting "manual pit" to "yes" under gameplay options sorted it - thanks Mister Dog!!!

mister dog
29-11-2017, 15:35
Awesome! Setting "manual pit" to "yes" under gameplay options sorted it - thanks Mister Dog!!!

Map a button for the speed limiter though ;).

SlowBloke
29-11-2017, 15:36
It was a lot worse than hit or miss imo. AC AI still has hiccups but the last serious update to AI was a massive improvement. Before you could slow down infront of cars and they would just wait in line. It was almost as processional as Gran Turismo on rails and a lot of smacking you in the rear which still happens (ie Spa first corner)

Call me crazy but I had fun with the AI in PC1 (for the most part). Hockenheim in a single seater first corner was suicidal ofcourse and way too much corner cutting etc.. but I really felt they fought me where now its leaning too much on the timid side. Probably for good reasons until they sort stuff out but I hope they get more aggressive and move around more between themselves. There is too much follow the same path going on.

Also really dont like the sudden movements they make just at the start - synced between a number of cars all veer right or left.

Anyhow they are working on it and I hope it gets more consistent and fun to race against over time. As stated AC sure didnt get it right for the first 3 years or so. Ofcourse SMS will not work on PC2 beyond the first year and we probably only have another 4 months tops of serious investment of time on the subject in PC2.....

Haiden
29-11-2017, 15:43
@Haiden AC's AI has only been very good since Stefano last tweaked it this year, before it was hit and miss also. Remember that most games don't have the added variables of weather or multi class for example, if we would have stale dry environments only in PC2 also, I bet the AI would have been on point already all round.


It took 3 year for Kunos to solve the live axle...

Let's not even go to rF2 and dx9... and it's not like r3E got it right either with missing features. iR called iceracing for a reason for years..

LOL... I never said they got it right from the start, or that the AI in those sims was perfect. My point is that today I find the AI in those sims to provide a better racing experience. PCars1 AI issues were never resolved. And all I hear now are excuses as to why PCars2 AI has issues. But, given the development model, and the fact that we know it takes a bit of time to work out the kinks (as illustrated by the examples given), how do you think PCars2 AI will ever get sorted out before SMS decides to move on to PCars3? Or do we just have to wait for PCars3 for a decent AI? Because, by the time PCars3 releases, SMS will have been at it for well over three years. But, I'm sure there will be reasons then, too. :rolleyes:

Sorry. I don't expect it to be perfect. I just don't care for the excuses, because they don't change the fact that it ruins the SP experience. You guys point fingers with the "Their AI sucked too at the beginning." like that makes a difference. But guess what? Until Kunos fixed the AI in AC, I didn't take SP seriously in AC, and only used it for overtake practice. But 90% of my time in AC was in MP, until the AI was updated. During that time, I mostly played R3E for SP racing. And that's all I'm saying... the AI in PCars2 doesn't provide a good experience. And, just like I did with AC, I've grown tired of it and consider SP a waste of time.

Edit: And that's just my opinion. If someone else is fine with the AI, or not bothered by the inconsistency, great. Have fun. Doesn't make anything I said about the PCars2 AI any less true.

maTech
29-11-2017, 16:13
What makes me sad is ai performance in lmp2 cars. Did a quali test with following settings:

Track: Daytona Road Course
Conditons: Dry and sunny
Ai strength: 95%
Ai aggressiveness: 100%
Classes: LMP2, GTE, GT3
Session time: 20min

246224
246225
246226

I don't know if I am hypersensitive but in my opinion lmp2 cars (ai) are way too slow. What do you think? Or is this realistic?

RomKnight
29-11-2017, 16:26
@Haiden

pC1 stopped. SMS moved to pC2.

Completely different approaches. Given time, everything is possible.

/edit

And BTW, I don't race AI. I couldn't care less or actually know how it is. That's not my point.

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 16:41
I've spent quite a bit of time over the last couple of years helping to test the AI in PC2, and from the interaction with the dev team, it's clear that the AI has been stripped down and virtually rebuilt. I don't think it was just as simple as taking the PC1 AI and giving it a little tweak. Not just the AI actually; the success of PC1 gave SMS the resources to strip virtually the whole game down and rebuild from scratch, which on one hand gives them a sturdier platform on which to build, but on the other brings more potential difficulties than you might expect from a 'normal' sequel.

Haiden
29-11-2017, 17:25
@Haiden

pC1 stopped. SMS moved to pC2.

Completely different approaches. Given time, everything is possible.

/edit

And BTW, I don't race AI. I couldn't care less or actually know how it is. That's not my point.

What????

Yes. That's exactly what I said. They stopped with 1 and moved on to 2. The question is... given the time it takes to tune a decent AI (as others have pointed out), will we have to wait until PC3 to get a decent AI?

And BTW, I race SP and MP. Don't know what that has to do with anything, but since that seems to be an important tidbit for you.

RomKnight
29-11-2017, 17:33
Yep. hence why i reinforced it. It's not the same thing hence why I don't get why you're comparing one to the other and the "difficulty" to do.

How many iterations did it take.

The tidbit was because of your edit. Like I said, I don't care about AI. Point was, they're different models.

iR is the most extreme example as it's the same as AC but for far longer and yet, they seem to have start moving after resting on their laurels when competition showed up and even now... but it's still a different business model.

Which one a company chooses or one prefers it's irrelevant. The time needed to evolve and tune a product is eventually there, either by keeping constant updates to the same product of by simply release a newer version is there.

At some point though the development may stop as porting to newer tech might justify a newer version altogether, even if the name is the same (see rF2)

Purg
29-11-2017, 17:50
100% should already be a little bit quicker than RL.

Is there somewhere we can report AI that appears too slow for review?

For instance, going through the Porsche GT4 career and just raced at Willow Springs. AI at 100/80 and I was lapping 6+ seconds faster than the fastest AI. High speed track using default Loose setup and I was reaching a much higher top speed which would account for most of the disparity.

rosko
29-11-2017, 18:04
I didn't push beyond 50 aggression & they form an orderly line b4 & after patch. I will try higher aggression.

demerzel
29-11-2017, 18:40
Yes... It's so hard that other sims do it just fine--R3E, AC, rF2, etc. It's just... so hard. :rolleyes:

Rf2 AI can't race properly with the newly released paid formula e content.
Even the boss there admitted that the AI has many bugs.
It's not that good as people like to claim. For example, for me, the Callaways constantly crash each other on Silverstone.
And another report says that currently the AI is totally broken in rain condition.....

For years Assetto corsa's AI was a joke. The players had to wait for the 1.14 update which was released in 2017. jun for an AI which was usable.

Spiderx
29-11-2017, 18:50
Rf2 AI can't race properly with the newly released paid formula e content.
Even the boss there admitted that the AI has many bugs.
It's not that good as people like to claim. For example, for me, the Callaways constantly crash each other on Silverstone.
And another report says that currently the AI is totally broken in rain condition.....

For years Assetto corsa's AI was a joke. The players had to wait for the 1.14 update which was released in 2017. jun for an AI which was usable.

Assetto Corsa was the first time AI was implemented by Kunos , EVER... previous games had no AI whatsoever, btw, Kunos is basically Stefano on what AI is concerned.... SMS already did quite a few games before PCARS 2 iirc ..
Tbh, dont give a rats ass about AI but i know i am a minority... was told by several devs that people that play multiplayer are a minority ence i supose the majority do use AI !

Doug914
29-11-2017, 19:06
Is there somewhere we can report AI that appears too slow for review?

For instance, going through the Porsche GT4 career and just raced at Willow Springs. AI at 100/80 and I was lapping 6+ seconds faster than the fastest AI. High speed track using default Loose setup and I was reaching a much higher top speed which would account for most of the disparity.

Willows Springs, agian was just redone and will be in P4. That corner onto the front straight the biggest culprit. I won't say its 6 seconds faster though. I'll look at that career race if i get a chance for a check. What race times are you doing there with the Cayman?

rosko
29-11-2017, 19:21
so the willow springs corner was fixed in patch 1.30?

V3nom
29-11-2017, 19:24
will be fixed in P4 = patch 4

Mark Race
29-11-2017, 19:35
The wet AI seem much better at overtaking and battling with the player to me. I made this video to compare the v3 wet weather with the previous v1.3 behaviour but thought it migh also add to the discussion here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRWk4SbXWsM

First corner bunching issue aside (I started from the back on purpose to see the AI behaviour) here are some good battling moment:

50s - good AI battling with other AI and me. The Aston overtakes another AI then gets on the kerbs and loses traction allowing me to overtake, all looked good to me.

2.50ish - I try a cheeky dive into turn 1, the AI Cayman GT4 battles back fairly door to door.

5.50ish - I drop my Ginetta GT4 pushing too hard, two AI cars ake advantage (I suppose I could have dived back to the racing line to block but that isn't how I race) looked good and real enough to me.

VR helps with spatial awareness for sure but the AI (first corner aside) seem good enough to me at 95% skill level and 75% aggression. I fully acknowlege other cars and tracks may produce different results but what I've seen is good.

Purg
29-11-2017, 19:37
Willows Springs, agian was just redone and will be in P4. That corner onto the front straight the biggest culprit. I won't say its 6 seconds faster though. I'll look at that career race if i get a chance for a check. What race times are you doing there with the Cayman?

I was in the 1:22's. I just tried a quick 5 lap race and they were only 3 seconds off my pace - they were in the 1:25's. Started from the rear and passed the whole field of 22 opponents by the end of the first lap.

I'd have to go through a few races to get back to the same career race, though. It was a 15 lap race at night and I was 1 lap off from lapping the back runners. It was also an uncomfortable race being a night one as the frames took a huge hit in VR and I was feeling a little spotty for a few hours afterwards. I've just updated the driver which apparently caused some juddering in the Rift - hopefully it improves night performance.

In practice and qualify, I was at least 10kph faster on most of the straights - unsure if it's because I was on the power earlier or they just had a lower top speed.

Keena
29-11-2017, 19:57
Its an interesting debate that's for sure. I'm doing career so for a few races I'll take a photo of the qualifying result followed by a photo of the race result. Its 95% difficulty with AI at 100%. Results to follow in a week or so.. this is either going to show the AI overtake or it will show they don't, and it will show the frequency :)

rosko
29-11-2017, 20:02
Just tested willow springs, it's the same as before patch. Cars way to slow onto final straight just makes the track pointless for one player races. :( Its potentially one of the best track in the game for racing imo so much fun in the camaro z28 69.

rosko
29-11-2017, 20:03
Its an interesting debate that's for sure. I'm doing career so for a few races I'll take a photo of the qualifying result followed by a photo of the race result. Its 95% difficulty with AI at 100%. Results to follow in a week or so.. this is either going to show the AI overtake or it will show they don't, and it will show the frequency :)

IMO the cars do race you, but not each other.

Keena
29-11-2017, 20:12
IMO the cars do race you, but not each other.

Which is why I'm going to do a snapshot of their final race position compared to their qualifying position. I'll be up the road so no factor ;)

V3nom
29-11-2017, 20:14
Great idea Keena. I suggest you make a new thread with the results. :)
btw you mean 100 Aggression right?

Keena
29-11-2017, 20:36
Great idea Keena. I suggest you make a new thread with the results. :)
btw you mean 100 Aggression right?

Yeah. 100% aggression 95% difficulty.
Out of interest first race results-
Formula Rookie Algarve, race 1
246241
246242

V3nom
29-11-2017, 20:40
Which one is you? Until place nr 7 there is no change, except for the winner.

Keena
29-11-2017, 20:44
Which one is you? Until place nr 7 there is no change, except for the winner.

I'm P1 which is why I chopped the top off the photo. Don't want anyone knowing I'm calling myself Shirley Mctasty or something like that do we.. ;)
Yeah after P7 it looks like a bit of a scrap- might have been a coming together or something. Maybe tomorrow when I'm a bit less tired Ill pay closer attention and see if its legitimate passes or crashes that lead to the change of position. I'm curious to know myself :) I cant help but feel theres a lot of potential with the AI yet to be unlocked..

By the way if theres anyone with time on their hands and good with spreadsheets feel free to take this idea and run with it.. I'm in work day after tomorrow for four days so no racing for me after tomorrow for a few days :(

Purg
29-11-2017, 20:53
Is there a telemetry app that currently outputs positions per lap? I asked elsewhere and was advise that the info must be available since CrewChief relies on it.

Keena
29-11-2017, 20:54
Is there a telemetry app that currently outputs positions per lap? I asked elsewhere and was advise that the info must be available since CrewChief relies on it.

No Idea- might be an interesting route to explore.

JasonB
29-11-2017, 20:54
Congrats all you guys who complained AI was tough. It's now nerfed and unrealistic, if you want to feel like a VIP driving a car then you succeed.

I personally loved the aggressive AI that would simulate real life and online gameplay, people think AI is bad for overtaking you when you suck? People think AI is bad because you don't know what a racing line is and when to overtake and not.

Now they always let you by.

I always ran 100% aggressiveness and never thought it was too aggressive, now it's ruined.

No one complained they were tough. People complained that they:

- were homicidal coming out of the pits
- had unrealistic advantages in some circumstances, and disadvantages in other circumstances

Trust me, everyone wants a believable AI, but it's one of the most difficult things to program

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 21:23
Just did a bit of testing on this. Doing a few different combinations on Silverstone in the Porsche GT3. My normal speed would be somewhere 75-80% in AI terms, so starting at the front, 100%/80agg AI, I could keep the lead for the first few laps, as if they were just biding their time. 2nd place was a steady 0.5sec behind me. As the race wore on, they started picking me off until I was down to about 11th, then I was holding my own a bit better. Once they passed me, they were about 2-3sec per lap faster than me.

Did the same thing at 120%/100agg, and it was quite similar, but once they got past me, they were well away in the distance. Repeated at 60%/60agg, this time I was holding on fine, but 2nd place did make a move on me and took the lead. I then had a great battle for the next few laps dicing for the lead, going side by side into turns, both of us leaving racing room for the other, very professional looking on the replay. I also saw p3 battle for position with p2 at one point behind me.

So they might not overtake each other so much, but they certainly aren't too afraid of the player, yet they aren't banzai aggressive either, they just bide their time and pick you off when they can.

Schnizz58
29-11-2017, 21:37
That sounds encouraging John. Now if there is some consistency from track to track, I'll be a happy camper.

Purg
29-11-2017, 21:52
So they might not overtake each other so much, but they certainly aren't too afraid of the player, yet they aren't banzai aggressive either, they just bide their time and pick you off when they can.

I've only noticed in practice since they tend to be a little faster there than in race, if you're holding off the AI behind you sufficiently, you'll notice the rest of the AI banking behind them on the minimap.

Just finished a GT3 Acura practice at Donington. 100/80. I was 0.5 secs ahead in the dry after ~ 20 minutes. Changed it to heavy rain and was 0.3 seconds behind after the 2nd lap but the rain slowed us all to around 2 seconds a lap down from the initial time. During then, I was having a good stoush with an AI. Despite swapping positions at least 4 times, the only damage sustained was 1% to my rear aero.. in the wet!

I noticed at Daytona in my GT4 Porsche career, I was comfortably ahead with a few laps to go. The AI seemed to be pushing a little harder in the final laps as they were gaining significant time. What was a 5 second lead ended up a 1.5 second lead by the end.

The AI is demonstrably improving in my experience. Racing me is more important than them racing each other, though when I get more serious in the career then it's a little more important - especially if we get offline championships in the future.

gelfie
30-11-2017, 02:18
This thread confuses me, on the one hand people say they are driving in a procession and do not pass at all, on the other hand people praise them and say they do pass and attack.
There must be something with the slider settings then no I suppose? Maybe it's better if we always post our speed/aggression settings as standard, so we can compare and see if that has something to do with it?


They will pass and defend on a couple of scripted corners at each track... but they don't actually use any form of "Sensing" to pass or defend at any other places. Always the same spots on every lap.

While PC1 AI was too suicidal, I think there has been an over correction in PC2... they're too predictable and boring now, that it really does become obvious that they're following a script

Sampo
30-11-2017, 02:25
They will pass and defend on a couple of scripted corners at each track... but they don't actually use any form of "Sensing" to pass or defend at any other places. Always the same spots on every lap.

While PC1 AI was too suicidal, I think there has been an over correction in PC2... they're too predictable and boring now, that it really does become obvious that they're following a script

Do you mean the best overtaking spots? :)

Purg
30-11-2017, 08:08
Did some practice sessions at Donnington in both wet and dry and AI at 100/80 in GT3. Spotted a couple of passes by the AI but for the most part they seemed to stay behind each other. I'd note an AI would move to pass, the AI in front would make a move that looked like a block and the passing AI backed off. The couple of passes I saw happened at the 2nd last hairpin.

When racing against me, the AI seemed to be more motivated to get by which happened at appropriate times and very cleanly. Don't know if the AI treat practice and races differently, will probably do some races tomorrow.

After 10 laps, I was 0.2 seconds quicker in the dry. Same testing in the wet, I was 0.3 seconds behind first and in 3rd place. Very pleasing results. Pre-patch, I'd be a couple of seconds quicker at least in the wet.

fostrike
30-11-2017, 08:20
The AI still can overtake you on the starting line during the rolling start while the limit is 120 km/h.
Of course if you exceed that limit just by 1km/h you got disqualified....

Roger Prynne
30-11-2017, 09:05
They will pass and defend on a couple of scripted corners at each track... but they don't actually use any form of "Sensing" to pass or defend at any other places. Always the same spots on every lap.

While PC1 AI was too suicidal, I think there has been an over correction in PC2... they're too predictable and boring now, that it really does become obvious that they're following a script

Absolutely no scripting involved with the AI.

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 09:09
They will pass and defend on a couple of scripted corners at each track... but they don't actually use any form of "Sensing" to pass or defend at any other places. Always the same spots on every lap.

While PC1 AI was too suicidal, I think there has been an over correction in PC2... they're too predictable and boring now, that it really does become obvious that they're following a script

As above, zero scripting.

Silraed
30-11-2017, 09:31
I had a moment in a GT3 wet race last night around Brands Hatch GP where I had to catch the car going through turn 5 after passing an AI on the straight and ran wide enough to trigger the cut track and return the place warning.
No problem right? Nope big problem. The car just would not pass me no matter how much I slowed or where I positioned myself, I ended up having to completely pull off the track for him to go through and not just sit behind me and slow when I slowed. I can't remember this happening before the patch but then I don't trigger the warning that often, I like to think I am a cautious and safe overtaker but in reality it's just not often I'm fast enough to make a pass :o.

John Hargreaves
30-11-2017, 10:35
They will pass and defend on a couple of scripted corners at each track... but they don't actually use any form of "Sensing" to pass or defend at any other places. Always the same spots on every lap.

While PC1 AI was too suicidal, I think there has been an over correction in PC2... they're too predictable and boring now, that it really does become obvious that they're following a script

When I race with AI that is closely matched to my own speed, there is often only one viable overtaking spot per lap, that I have to plan several corners in advance to get the run on them. I think that's just racing: you are quicker in some spots, they are quicker in others, you identify that and use it, makes sense to me.

Having said that, I'm not saying the AI are perfect, I do agree that this overtaking thing is worth a look.

Doug914
30-11-2017, 12:19
As above, zero scripting.

Yes, definitely no scripting. The AI to AI does need more variations without destroying their speeds, I agree.. Believe me It's something i'm constantly experimenting with. I have alot of parameters that Chris has given me and that I've asked for over the length of developement. But there's alot of risk involved with major changes at this point. We have a driver traits file that I'm starting to look closer at to see if i can get more variations there. And also the defend/concede tweakers. These are the least risky of anything to mess with. The reason the AI seems to be more "racey" with the players car is the player is more inconsistent, honestly. And it takes very little inconsistency for the AI to take advantage of that.

rosko
30-11-2017, 12:27
Is it still the case that if you drive a higher class car gt1 then the Ai difficulty is also higher in comparison to say a gt5?

OddTimer
30-11-2017, 12:57
Is it still the case that if you drive a higher class car gt1 then the Ai difficulty is also higher in comparison to say a gt5?

I think this only applies to Career. I haven't done any career races in 3.0 though.

Mark Race
30-11-2017, 13:12
Yes, definitely no scripting. The AI to AI does need more variations without destroying their speeds, I agree.. Believe me It's something i'm constantly experimenting with. I have alot of parameters that Chris has given me and that I've asked for over the length of developement. But there's alot of risk involved with major changes at this point. We have a driver traits file that I'm starting to look closer at to see if i can get more variations there. And also the defend/concede tweakers. These are the least risky of anything to mess with. The reason the AI seems to be more "racey" with the players car is the player is more inconsistent, honestly. And it takes very little inconsistency for the AI to take advantage of that.

Doug, thanks for taking the time to explain. I can definately confirm the AI take advantage of my many human inconsistencies, especially with the updated faster wet AI! I think it is one of the best parts of racing the AI now, where they previously left the door open in some corners they take better lines and defend. I like the fact that in VR (I mention VR because it is so much easier to know where the AI car is) they can so easily run door and side by side around corners. I do like the way the AI make mistakes and get on the slippy wet kerbs too, that looks real. I realise this could be placebo or nocebo but the AI definately seem to try that bit harder toward the end races if they are close - maybe I'm imagining it with the end of race pressure coming on but it seems that way.

A couple of minor quirks aside, like the start bunching and AI ability to drive throug deep puddles unaffected, the PCARS2 AI is up there with the best now and far better than random open lobby behaviour. The only better way to play is with a group of similarly skilled friends online but that isn't always possible and the AI are more than good enough.

Keep up the good work and I look forward to future updates!

Keena
30-11-2017, 13:14
Yes, definitely no scripting. The AI to AI does need more variations without destroying their speeds, I agree.. Believe me It's something i'm constantly experimenting with. I have alot of parameters that Chris has given me and that I've asked for over the length of developement. But there's alot of risk involved with major changes at this point. We have a driver traits file that I'm starting to look closer at to see if i can get more variations there. And also the defend/concede tweakers. These are the least risky of anything to mess with. The reason the AI seems to be more "racey" with the players car is the player is more inconsistent, honestly. And it takes very little inconsistency for the AI to take advantage of that.

Really pleased to hear that this is an ongoing development area. I hope the lower formulas won't get left out :) Generally speaking I like the AI, but it might be worth having just one or two who are a bit rubbish, one or two who are a bit pushy etc. The driver traits file sounds very cool :)

Edit- Actually having thought about it, don't do anything like that. Its a terrible idea. The AI are fine for me and I leave it in your capable hands ;)

edcwhite
30-11-2017, 13:52
We have a driver traits file that I'm starting to look closer at to see if i can get more variations there.

If only you could make some aspects of this file available for users to tweak then you could let the community take a crack at it - much like the FFB settings and Jack Spade. This game is near perfect for me now but I still crave for AI that are more human like in that they are not machine consistent and can occasionally screw up like I do.

Doug914
30-11-2017, 14:05
If only you could make some aspects of this file available for users to tweak then you could let the community take a crack at it - much like the FFB settings and Jack Spade. This game is near perfect for me now but I still crave for AI that are more human like in that they are not machine consistent and can occasionally screw up like I do.

It's not as powerfull as it sounds, actually. As it dosen't have effects on all the driver's possible mistake/strength area's (ie like direct control of defending and conceding individually). But yes, something that was specificly built for public tweaking would be awesome, i could see that. But we're out of developement time for this sim, and just down to polishing. :)

EDIT: I aslo crave more human like mistakes and why i personaly keep messing with this stuff. Being a real racer myself for years, I know exactly how it all should feel when in the battle.. And yes this part is just a little bit lacking still and pretty perfect for me otherwise too.

Doug914
30-11-2017, 14:10
A couple of minor quirks aside, like the start bunching and AI ability to drive throug deep puddles unaffected, the PCARS2 AI is up there with the best now and far better than random open lobby behaviour. The only better way to play is with a group of similarly skilled friends online but that isn't always possible and the AI are more than good enough.

Keep up the good work and I look forward to future updates!

The AI does lift over large enough puddles (about a 60% lift if i recall). We had them set earlier in dev (on release i believe) to lift over smaller puddles, but then their straights speeds suffered too much. The current compromise is probably the best overall one for their simpler physics. Leaves them a bit too capable in really big puddles, but keeps their straight speed up to match the player. But sounds like you'r enjoying it either way and thats the point :).

SpeedyMcQuick
30-11-2017, 14:23
The AI does lift over large enough puddles (about a 60% lift if i recall). We had them set earlier in dev (on release i believe) to lift over smaller puddles, but then their straights speeds suffered too much. The current compromise is probably the best overall one for their simpler physics. Leaves them a bit too capable in really big puddles, but keeps their straight speed up to match the player. But sounds like you'r enjoying it either way and thats the point :).

Hello Doug. Thanks for all your hard work on the A.I. I know this has to be a very difficult thing to keep making more satisfying. I was just curious if you ever saw my posts about how to make the A.I. more human and what you thought about it. Sorry I still don't know how to make a link, but I started a thread "Shameless self-promotion of A.I. behavior program", there's a link in there. I hear what you're saying about development on this game being over. Just thought if this was a good idea, maybe something like it could be worked on in the future. Again, you have a tough job, so thanks for all you do.


http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56823-Shameless-Self-Promotion-Of-A-I-Behavior-Program

Doug914
30-11-2017, 14:51
Hello Doug. Thanks for all your hard work on the A.I. I know this has to be a very difficult thing to keep making more satisfying. I was just curious if you ever saw my posts about how to make the A.I. more human and what you thought about it. Sorry I still don't know how to make a link, but I started a thread "Shameless self-promotion of A.I. behavior program", there's a link in there. I hear what you're saying about development on this game being over. Just thought if this was a good idea, maybe something like it could be worked on in the future. Again, you have a tough job, so thanks for all you do.

I did see it yes. But was a awhile ago. We all want the same thing and we all want it a certain way. The coders started hating me later in production as i pushed for more code items to make it as convincing as possble in every area. The next step is probably scrapping the whole thing and starting fresh with some kind of learning AI. But thats a huge step that I can't call :)

diesel97
30-11-2017, 14:57
I did see it yes. But was a awhile ago. We all want the same thing and we all want it a certain way. The coders started hating me later in production as i pushed for more code items to make it as convincing as possble in every area. The next step is probably scrapping the whole thing and starting fresh with some kind of learning AI. But thats a huge step that I can't call :)

Please don't go down the Forza avatar route, just kidding I know you would never even thing of right?

Roger Prynne
30-11-2017, 15:08
Hello Doug. Thanks for all your hard work on the A.I. I know this has to be a very difficult thing to keep making more satisfying. I was just curious if you ever saw my posts about how to make the A.I. more human and what you thought about it. Sorry I still don't know how to make a link, but I started a thread "Shameless self-promotion of A.I. behavior program", there's a link in there. I hear what you're saying about development on this game being over. Just thought if this was a good idea, maybe something like it could be worked on in the future. Again, you have a tough job, so thanks for all you do.

To make a link either copy the link in the address bar (for the whole thread) or right click the # of the post at the top right hand side of the post, copy link address (this is for for that post alone) and just paste it into your post.... simples :D

I've put a link in your post above.

Doug914
30-11-2017, 15:35
Please don't go down the Forza avatar route, just kidding I know you would never even thing of right?

Never. Especially since I don't know what it is :)

SpeedyMcQuick
30-11-2017, 15:38
To make a link either copy the link in the address bar (for the whole thread) or right click the # of the post at the top right hand side of the post, copy link address (this is for for that post alone) and just paste it into your post.... simples :D

I've put a link in your post above.

Roger, Roger.

("What's your vector, Victor?, Check your clearance, Clarence.")

Schnizz58
30-11-2017, 15:44
Never. Especially since I don't know what it is :)

Just so you don't accidentally go down that route...

Forza came out with a concept they called Drivatars in FM5 I think it was. The idea was that everyone's drivatar learns their driving habits (both good and bad) and then those drivatars were used as AI. But the problem is that we don't want to race against a bunch of random drivers, most of whom are pretty bad. We want good drivers that occasionally make mistakes like humans do.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/forza-5/Drivatar

ps, thanks for your efforts, I appreciate the hard work that goes into this.

maTech
30-11-2017, 15:46
Today I raced at Donington Park with GT3, GT4, TC and TC1 classes. Ai at 95% strength and aggressiveness at 100%. I noticed some GT3 cars which stayed three quarter of a lap behind a Renault Clio (TC1). To be honest, in my opinion multiclass races don't make sense at the moment. But the interaction between me and the ai is working very very good. Most time I must say it works perfect! Great work there and I hope and trust in you guys that ai to ai interaction will be as good as ai to player interaction in the future!

Purg
30-11-2017, 18:24
The reason the AI seems to be more "racey" with the players car is the player is more inconsistent, honestly. And it takes very little inconsistency for the AI to take advantage of that.

Damn, there goes my confidence out the window..! :o They seem to be doing a good job in my experience. PC1 a lot of the passes were dive bomby or bordering on suicidal with a lot of argy bargy. PC2 a couple have been 'whoa buddy!' but nothing I've not seen many times watching real racing. The majority they've spotted an opening and took it cleanly. I play with damage on so AI that respect your track position is much appreciated.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 21:31
Today I raced at Donington Park with GT3, GT4, TC and TC1 classes. Ai at 95% strength and aggressiveness at 100%. I noticed some GT3 cars which stayed three quarter of a lap behind a Renault Clio (TC1). To be honest, in my opinion multiclass races don't make sense at the moment. But the interaction between me and the ai is working very very good. Most time I must say it works perfect! Great work there and I hope and trust in you guys that ai to ai interaction will be as good as ai to player interaction in the future!

I've noticed the AI's hesitation to overtake slower classes too. This doesn't mean you can't use multiclass though. Just limit usage to races where your class is slowest on track, like GTE at Le Mans. Your direct AI competitors won't have to do much overtaking of other classes.

emjoty
30-11-2017, 22:30
Hi Doug914, thank you for your comments.

Do you think it will be possible to tweak the AI to be more aggressive when it comes to overtaking other AI? I love multiclass endurance racing but it doesnt have much sense now. Also I would love to see the fast road cars overtaking the slower ones. Thanks!

maTech
01-12-2017, 07:15
I've noticed the AI's hesitation to overtake slower classes too. This doesn't mean you can't use multiclass though. Just limit usage to races where your class is slowest on track, like GTE at Le Mans. Your direct AI competitors won't have to do much overtaking of other classes.

Thanks, that is a good hint. I will try it out!

Doug914
01-12-2017, 11:34
Hi Doug914, thank you for your comments.

Do you think it will be possible to tweak the AI to be more aggressive when it comes to overtaking other AI? I love multiclass endurance racing but it doesnt have much sense now. Also I would love to see the fast road cars overtaking the slower ones. Thanks!

As i mentioned elsewhere, It's something I'd like to get better, more agressive. I just have to be carefull of any knockon effects. I've been experimenting with corner/brake speed judjment error for them and after putting something in thats pretty heavy handed, it really opened up agressive passing for them, with the downside of more bumping here and there, and more inconsistent lap times. Last night i did a race with this change at 85% at Red Bull GP with 30 AI and started mid-pack, The racing around me was pretty intense. I was able to work my way up the field and win that race a bit easier than normal because of the lap time inconsistency, but the race experience was definelty more organic and real looking from the cockpit. But this is just one scenario out of 1000 though, but it's something to work with. We will see.

John Hargreaves
01-12-2017, 13:42
Is it just me or does that sound quite exciting?

Sankyo
01-12-2017, 13:45
It depends on whether the Race Director doesn't go ape with penalties with more AI-to-player contact...

Doug914
01-12-2017, 13:50
It depends on whether the Race Director doesn't go ape with penalties with more AI-to-player contact...

Thats true. Something else to consider...

emjoty
01-12-2017, 17:05
As i mentioned elsewhere, It's something I'd like to get better, more agressive. I just have to be carefull of any knockon effects. I've been experimenting with corner/brake speed judjment error for them and after putting something in thats pretty heavy handed, it really opened up agressive passing for them, with the downside of more bumping here and there, and more inconsistent lap times. Last night i did a race with this change at 85% at Red Bull GP with 30 AI and started mid-pack, The racing around me was pretty intense. I was able to work my way up the field and win that race a bit easier than normal because of the lap time inconsistency, but the race experience was definelty more organic and real looking from the cockpit. But this is just one scenario out of 1000 though, but it's something to work with. We will see.

Is it possible for the player to make those tweaks too? I would love to do that, even for a price of AI bumping into me ;) Or maybe incorporate those variables under Aggression slider? So the player can tailor the experience to his preferences. Anyway thank you for work :)

GAT_Montana
01-12-2017, 17:49
I would love to have a switch to make it as funny as it was in PC 1. I know...not realistic...but the feeling was very....uhmmm....human like, if they overtake everywhere, using every part of the map :D

Doug914
01-12-2017, 18:00
Is it possible for the player to make those tweaks too? I would love to do that, even for a price of AI bumping into me ;) Or maybe incorporate those variables under Aggression slider? So the player can tailor the experience to his preferences. Anyway thank you for work :)

Actually you are a mind reader.., we're going to attach it to the aggression slider if we do it. So essentially yes the player will have control.

emjoty
01-12-2017, 18:09
Great, thank you :) I dont think it will cause any problems, if the player will find AI to aggressive (or crazy) he will just dial the slider.

poirqc
01-12-2017, 18:49
This morning, i did a 20 minutes race @ Watkins Glen short. For the first part of the race, the threads title described the race pretty well. Then something happened...

The AIs crashed in front of me. I saw a big bunch of smoke and one of them was out of service. But that made me reach them. Afterwards, i was able to trade places with the betters AI. Some of them even traded place with themselves. I traded a bit of paint with them, but nobody got knocked.

It was arond 90 strengh and 75 Aggression.

edcwhite
01-12-2017, 23:22
This morning, i did a 20 minutes race @ Watkins Glen short. For the first part of the race, the threads title described the race pretty well. Then something happened...

The AIs crashed in front of me. I saw a big bunch of smoke and one of them was out of service. But that made me reach them. Afterwards, i was able to trade places with the betters AI. Some of them even traded place with themselves. I traded a bit of paint with them, but nobody got knocked.

It was arond 90 strengh and 75 Aggression.

Wow... the perfect race... I want some of that!

Mark Race
02-12-2017, 14:08
I had time to run a 10 lap Multiclass GT5, GT4, GT3, LMP1 race on the Red Bull Ring in storm conditions and the AI did a fine job of overtaking each other. There was plenty of initial AI v AI battling in each class but than as usual they settled down to a routine. The LMP1s blasted past my and the other GT4 class cars around me on about lap 5, they overtook at full speed on straights and used their superior grip in corners, it was good an realistic. The LMP1s coming through didn't make any significant impact on our GT4 class race positions. Toward the end of the race our GT4s caught the GT5 cars and again the other AI GT4 cars were easilyu able to pass the GT5s with no impact on the race. It was a lot better than I had expected after soom of the doom and gloom ealier in this thread.

cjhill44
02-12-2017, 23:39
I think it depends on the car/track combination

I just did a formula rookie race around Knockhill in the rain. They just ran nose to tail, only saw 1 AI make an overtake during the whole race, however....

All the cars are Identical and passing opportunities are limited at that Track.

Had the same with the C1 class at Brands GP, another tricky track for passing so faster cars would just cruise up to the back of slower ones and just sit there.

Later i'll test a multiclass race on a track with lots of passing opportunities and see how it goes.

I'm on 50% aggression. Would it help by moving it up to say 80%?

mister dog
03-12-2017, 00:58
I'd watch out with making the AI more aggressive again, it's not really clear yet to me what the issue is for those that complain that they are not overtaking anymore; is it aggression and speed settings? track related? a bug?...I greatly prefer the AI in PC2 over the one we had in 1 when it comes down to how they interact with the player, and I don't want to see the erratic banzai AI patterns from PC1 return in the search for more excitement.

Purg
03-12-2017, 03:34
I'd watch out with making the AI more aggressive again, it's not really clear yet to me what the issue is for those that complain that they are not overtaking anymore; is it aggression and speed settings? track related? a bug?...

Not sure if it was explained in this thread but the reasoning supplied is that the AI is taking advantage of the human's inconsistencies and makes a move. The AI is more consistent resulting in less overtaking.

John Hargreaves
03-12-2017, 08:32
[QUOTE=cjhill44;1437823]I think it depends on the car/track combination
[QUOTE]

I believe this is correct, as the AI has to be hand edited for race line and behaviour, and what works for high downforce and grip cars might not work for say the group 5s. Imagine the number of possible combinations of cars tracks and conditions in the game and you have an idea of the size of the task facing the team.

Doug914
03-12-2017, 11:12
We were discussing this on friday. The problem arises from the new (for PC2) dynamic passing lanes. Its the main item thats cleaned up the AI for this release. It can occasionally cause this king of hesitation if it dosent see a safe lane develop it wont go for the pass, no matter the speed differential (unless completely stopped). Wider tracks have a better chance at devolping these lanes and hence you'll see opposite reports of faster cars zipping on by. This is a risky area but we'll take a closer look at it in any case.

GAT_Montana
03-12-2017, 12:11
Hi Doug, please consider, that multiclass races are totally broken in single player mode because of this issue. Even if a car with technical issues is on the track (the opponents stay in line and waiting 2-3 laps to overtake). Furthermore its an issue if it starts raining, cars with slicks in front of cars with rain tires destroying the whole race. Than there is an additional issue with the blue flag or if the systems says I have to give back my place. I have to come nearly to a full stop, that they overtake.

And last but not least, the issue that the AI is pitting in the first 3 laps, if Pitstops are set to mandatory (even in a 20 laps race), leads to troubles if it starts raining. In combination with the overtake issue those races are useless.

I am sorry for complaining so much, but for singleplayer those issue cuts 75% of the racing fun and possibilities to try the great additions like multiclass racing and changing race and Pitstops strategies. They all make no sense, if cars don’t overtake anymore. Remember on Formula 1. What is the hottest discussion? Right...overtaking :)

Doug914
03-12-2017, 13:51
Thanks GAT all good points and nice general summary. I'll link this posy into our chat about the overtaking slower cars issue. Cheers. :)

Mr.Fujiwara
03-12-2017, 15:32
Yeah, I have the exact opposite problem. Since the patch most AI are decent, but there are about a handful of "troll" AI that seem to only show up on certain track/car combos. To be fair all AI might be doing this, I'm simply not around to witness it, but watch the video and you'll see what I mean.


https://youtu.be/XDDKvaOMQc8

To be fair, I think what's happening is the AI crosses limits (and I assume) get's a slow down penalty. it then attempts to slow down in the center of the track instead of pulling to one side........

mister dog
03-12-2017, 15:53
Yeah, I have the exact opposite problem. Since the patch most AI are decent, but there are about a handful of "troll" AI that seem to only show up on certain track/car combos. To be fair all AI might be doing this, I'm simply not around to witness it, but watch the video and you'll see what I mean.


https://youtu.be/XDDKvaOMQc8

To be fair, I think what's happening is the AI crosses limits (and I assume) get's a slow down penalty. it then attempts to slow down in the center of the track instead of pulling to one side........

It received one of them slow down warnings :p.

sp3ctor
03-12-2017, 17:10
I had a similar problem and posted it in a different thread. I did a 20 lap race against AI at Daytona in Indy Cars set to 120/100. They should have destroyed me but I built up a 56 second lead by the end of the race despite slowing down to pace lapped cars mid pack. Those cars were going anywhere between 60 to 150kph slower than my top speed and sort of just cruising along. They’d pass each other and stuff but it was like a whole different race was going on.

Purg
03-12-2017, 18:31
To be fair, I think what's happening is the AI crosses limits (and I assume) get's a slow down penalty. it then attempts to slow down in the center of the track instead of pulling to one side........

Woops, I think a drivatar got into the game. Quick, delete Forza 7!

Mr.Fujiwara
03-12-2017, 18:38
Woops, I think a drivatar got into the game. Quick, delete Forza 7!

LOL, do I have to sanitize the drive too? :p

Boeng
03-12-2017, 19:18
Actually you are a mind reader.., we're going to attach it to the aggression slider if we do it. So essentially yes the player will have control.

Just to skip back to this post and emphasize this: I would also really like the idea of having some more Control on how the AI behaves.

I can absolutley understand those People, who prefer an 'perfect' AI racing on the 'perfect' racing line, staying round after round behind each other only because there's no 'sweet overtaking spot' on the track - even when the cars behind are much faster - as sometimes seen at multiclass races. Not, that it's always that bad in PC2, but it's not too far away in my oppinion.

But some of the Players may prefer an AI that tries some things, that are not based on that 'sweet best overtaking spot'. Also it would be nice to see that the AI would not only get slower on straights, braking earlier for bends etc. when reducing strength, but drive more inconsistently. Do mistakes. Do not hit the raceline perfectly in difficult corners and hit the grass, spin and maybe hit the wall - just like a human driver would from time to time -especially when talking about more unexperienced drivers. If this means they are taking another AI - or the Player - out of the race - well, so be it.

I played PC for 100 hours now, mostly singleplayer careers in different classes and i've seen exactly 1 (!) AI car spinning off the track without beeing hit at the first few bends but out of the race.

A Slider like 'Driver Experience' under 'Aggression' would be fantastic ;)

Mark Race
03-12-2017, 20:08
I saw some excellent AI overtaking and the odd mistake today in a 1 hour LMP1, LMP3, GT4 & GT5 multiclass raceat the Red Bull Ring on 20x time progression to get some day night racing. Maybe was lucky with my choice of track combination but the AI certainly did a good job of overtaking here. I'm driving the Ginetta GT4 and having a good duel with the GT4 Class leading KTM Xbow. This was about 30 minutes into the race and the track suddenly got busy with some GT5s to overtake and the LMP1s blasting through. The AI LMP1 does make a mistake at 51s, getting on the raised kerb and losing time with too aggressive a corner line but that same car makes a great move between my car and the Xbow on the next straight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_IzaAjeBNc

I finished the 1 hour race 4 seconds behind the Xbow having completed 36 laps, the LMP1s managed 42 laps so the traffic and passing was intense at various points in the race. I didn't see any cars being held up for more than a few seconds and for the most part it looked like what I see on the Le Mans footage, sometimes the slower cars do get in the way for a corner or 2. The blue flag calls in PCARS2 are clear enough to let me know when the fast cars are approaching in any case.

What truly amazes me is just how immersive the racing feels at night in VR, the car really closes in around me in the dark, it is quite claustrophobic. Trying to battle the car in front and keep an eye in the mirror for those fast approaching lights is challenging and the ferocity of the overtaking LMP1 cars is genuinely shocking at times.

I'm not doubting what others have found I suspect various cars and tracks vary widely but this combination provided some quality entertainment.

Doug914
03-12-2017, 21:12
Good stuff, thanks for the video. You were also giving the overtaking AI LMP1's room, which helps the flow of the race alot. Intentionly stying on the raceline, while pretty normal IRL, hurts the faster car overtaking in this AI's world :)

Mark Race
03-12-2017, 21:57
Thanks Doug, with that closing speed it seems sensible to keep out of the way to me, the LMP1 cars weren't going to hold me up! I think Ben also says 'keep out of the way it'll just slow you down' or words to that effect which I think is good advice. It's probably the product of too many years real track time, I just can't sit in the way of faster cars even in a game, I know how dangerous it can be for real. Better to let them go and try to maintain my own lap time and race imo. Some of those moves on me and then other AI look plenty daring enough in any case.

More importantly it is fabulous exciting racing fun which is what makes PCARS2 oustanding.

Keena
05-12-2017, 13:04
I came across this little gem in one of my formula rookie races- Difficulty 100% AI aggression 100%. I think it shows they race even in the AI to AI action ;)

246891

Look beyond the overtaking move and see if you can spot the telltale signs of past battles lost on one particular AI..

sp3ctor
05-12-2017, 17:57
They absolutely do race each other. I’ve been running Daytona over and over trying to figure out a logic issue and it’d been interesting to hang back behind a pack of AI and watch them pass each other.

Keena
05-12-2017, 18:59
Yeah its pretty cool to watch, even better to take advantage when they make a mess of it to pull off a blinder of your own :)

I've actually set the ai difficulty slightly too hard so I'm constantly in the midfield. It's a lot, and I mean a lot, of fun back there. Very very impressed with the AI.

jayblue
05-12-2017, 19:20
AI has improved leaps and bounds in the latest patch and is much more race capable. My current favourite is Ruapuna Park in the GT4 class.

Mark Race
05-12-2017, 21:37
Yeah its pretty cool to watch, even better to take advantage when they make a mess of it to pull off a blinder of your own :)

I've actually set the ai difficulty slightly too hard so I'm constantly in the midfield. It's a lot, and I mean a lot, of fun back there. Very very impressed with the AI.

Fully agree. Setting the AI to just exceed my level gives the best racing. What I've also been impressed with is how the cars are suited to different tracks. At Monza my beloved Ginetta GT4 was a sitting duck for the AI Ford Mustang GT4s. On other tracks like Red Bull Ring the Mustang GT4 doesn't know where the Ginetta GT4 went! Some great racing in both scenarios especially trying to race while having to watch out for the flying LMP cars as the sun goes down.

Zenzic
13-12-2017, 20:30
I've noticed the AI's hesitation to overtake slower classes too. This doesn't mean you can't use multiclass though. Just limit usage to races where your class is slowest on track, like GTE at Le Mans. Your direct AI competitors won't have to do much overtaking of other classes.

I'll have to retract my own statement. Even when racing in a GT3 car against LMP2 at Algarve for instance, it seems the overall GT3 pace is affected negatively. If GT3 AI happens to have a clear lap they're fast enough, but when they're in the vicinity of LMP2 it seems both AI drivers are over-cautious; I'm able to go round the outside in corners and overtake two cars at once while the LMP2 and GT3 cars slow down excessively. Over the course of several laps this behavior is quite detrimental to the overall AI pace.

Granted, there aren't that many different racing lines at Algarve. I'm hoping the above behavior will be less of a factor at tracks with longer/more straights like Monza, Le Mans or Daytona Road, but I've yet to test.

FInroDz
13-01-2018, 10:02
I'm curious if during these weeks, some improvements or changes, have been done by the AI team.

My first two race in the clio cup (AI 80 aggression 60), were like a train in a straight line :confused:

I hope in some good news for patch 4

pferreirag60
13-01-2018, 12:37
Well, I always race with mix ai, like gt3 gte lmp2 and lmp1( I drive the GT3 or GTE) in Le mans or Nurburgring with the circuit, long races ( 35-45m) with the following AI:100 and Agression:80. I can assure you that they pass each other, some times with accidents, but they donīt drive like a procession, maybe only in the first 3 corners, but never in the first corner :), and like some of you, I too like to start in the middle of the pack, drive sometime with them and then...

Raklodder
13-01-2018, 12:52
I'm curious if during these weeks, some improvements or changes, have been done by the AI team.
My first two race in the clio cup (AI 80 aggression 60), were like a train in a straight line :confused:
I hope in some good news for patch 4
I would much rather have a few more collisions (even though it can be a mess) than following the conga trail.

Haiden
13-01-2018, 13:46
Well, I always race with mix ai, like gt3 gte lmp2 and lmp1( I drive the GT3 or GTE) in Le mans or Nurburgring with the circuit, long races ( 35-45m) with the following AI:100 and Agression:80. I can assure you that they pass each other, some times with accidents, but they donīt drive like a procession, maybe only in the first 3 corners, but never in the first corner :), and like some of you, I too like to start in the middle of the pack, drive sometime with them and then...

But if you're not racing with mixed AI, they drive in a single file. The solution can't be to only race mixed class. Currently, the AI is boring to race against by class. That needs to change for SP to hold my attention.

gormanio
13-01-2018, 19:47
i did a season full of good racing in the formula rookie. lots of overtaking and mistakes from the ai. ive now jumped into the clio cup and its the complete opposite. almost no passing and no aggression between ai.

Keena
13-01-2018, 20:18
i did a season full of good racing in the formula rookie. lots of overtaking and mistakes from the ai. ive now jumped into the clio cup and its the complete opposite. almost no passing and no aggression between ai.

That's because it's a Clio.. it sucks the aggression out of you and turns you into a sophisticated Parisian urbanite..

lokid
13-01-2018, 20:39
just rage quit indy at RA, they are frustrating to say the least. they brake check you, stop on apexes?! run you off, hit you in braking areas, have superior grip than you in most corners. Its frustrating cos this could be so good.!

dan2312
13-01-2018, 22:30
That's because it's a Clio.. it sucks the aggression out of you and turns you into a sophisticated Parisian urbanite..

You wouldn't say that if you saw them doing a support racing in the BTCC Race Days.

I watched them at Donnington park in 2017, 3 Clio's fighting for first place one got shoved off the track facing the wrong way hit a car head on, the car that collided with the clio facing the wrong way rolled over 2 times. The young driver (17yrs old IIRC) got out keeled over a bit and walked off.

Anyhow, the AI in the clio's is downright unrealistic at the moment. It ruins it for me.

Raklodder
14-01-2018, 08:54
i did a season full of good racing in the formula rookie. lots of overtaking and mistakes from the ai. ive now jumped into the clio cup and its the complete opposite. almost no passing and no aggression between ai.
What level of AI skill/aggression did you play with? I want to try it for myself (not being sarcastic) just want to find out what I've been doing wrong all the time.

lokid
11-02-2018, 13:26
The AI does lift over large enough puddles (about a 60% lift if i recall). We had them set earlier in dev (on release i believe) to lift over smaller puddles, but then their straights speeds suffered too much. The current compromise is probably the best overall one for their simpler physics. Leaves them a bit too capable in really big puddles, but keeps their straight speed up to match the player. But sounds like you'r enjoying it either way and thats the point :).

Hi doug maybe you should take a peak at Silverstone cos I'm sure i don't see the ai lift on any big puddles! so much so they really just pull away from me :(

RoccoTTS
11-02-2018, 13:43
For those who like to see proof the ai does overtake after patch 4, just look at this :
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50820-Project-CARS-2-Screenshots&p=1474213&viewfull=1#post1474213

Keena
11-02-2018, 14:00
Looking forward to getting home tomorrow and start my career again. Should be interesting in the slower tiers!

Mahjik
11-02-2018, 16:15
For those who have the patch already, try playing with the aggression levels and post up some info here for SMS on your thoughts!

Konan
11-02-2018, 16:30
post up some info here for SMS on your thoughts!

...and for me...:cool:
It would be interesting to know at what level they are best to race...(meaning most challenging)
That would save me a lot of time for when the patch hits the consoles...:p

CSL-Drive
11-02-2018, 16:30
I can't complain about the AI, as I find them pretty realistic. They crash sometimes, make mistakes, they drive pretty good, they overtake me if I make a mistake. They defend their position if I get close. That is probably the coolest of them all. Making it harder for me to overtake them. Only a.i. on snow is fast, I personally cannot keep up with them, but there is a new feature in this patch that might help me to keep up, some kind of option for counter steering, I have yet to check it out.
Yeah they bump me from behind at times, if I suddenly brake too early to avoid danger, but that's part of racing. I find that realistic. Fun and makes things interesting. Most important is to have each race feel completely new. And create situations like these is awesome, to get eager for the next time, you can plan to anticipate danger and either avoid or brake earlier and softer to give the A. I. time to react, but I like 100 agression, because it feels more like the online games, where people are not afraid to take allot of risk. But still, the A. I. is moderate. You wont see them doing really stupid or crazy things, for no purpose. They are well balanced.
And the A. I. drives amazing of all circuits and cars, which is allot.

RoccoTTS
11-02-2018, 17:14
For those who have the patch already, try playing with the aggression levels and post up some info here for SMS on your thoughts!

Before patch 4 i used 80 aggression. After the patch i started with 80, but after doing some races i lowered it to 60.
With aggression at 60 you have a good and fair fight, they will fight you but never go to far. If you go to 80 or higher it gets pretty tough and sometimes they even will tap you, more suited for Clio Cup or BTCC. Conclusion : i think it's balanced pretty good, everyone should find an aggression to match his racing style.

edit : did the same race as i did before (Radical SR3 @ Ruapuna) on 60, but this time at 80 aggression and it's hard but still fair and manageable.

Zenzic
11-02-2018, 19:35
Before patch 4 I had my aggression set to 100. Now I find AI too aggressive at 100; they tap me in braking zones and take too much risk. I like them in the 75 to 80 area at the moment. At this value they don't back down and use opportunities to overtake, but with a good dose of self-preservation.

Roushman624
12-02-2018, 00:00
Before patch 4 I had my aggression set to 100. Now I find AI too aggressive at 100; they tap me in braking zones and take too much risk. I like them in the 75 to 80 area at the moment. At this value they don't back down and use opportunities to overtake, but with a good dose of self-preservation.

Can't wait for this patch because of what you just said.

Purg
12-02-2018, 04:53
Been doing a bit of racing at Bathurst and the AI seem to be making a lot of mistakes through the esses. Have AI at 100/100, at least every 2nd lap an AI has spun there in GT3. Definitely seeing more errors by the AI than previous patch.. which isn't necessarily a bad thing. That spot maybe a little too often, though.

Might lower the aggression a tad. Find that they're a little argy bargy and making moves in places they probably shouldn't. It's probably not a bad thing that they are a little dive bomby at 100 - if aggression is at max, you expect the AI to be aggressive, and they're certainly aggressive! Also witnessed plenty of passing of AI on AI. I keep forgetting to load RSDash which now logs positions. I'll be sure to give it a shot later tonight.

The last patch for me was a massive improvement. This patch rounds some of the rough edges. Ran side by side for three quarters of a lap at Long Beach in a GT4 - probably only gained the spot because I was on the inside for the last corner. Was amazing in VR. Prior to that, I'd streak the AI by 4 seconds a lap at the same settings.

Mark Race
12-02-2018, 09:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzqpXyVpIc

3 clips from the same multi class race with the V4 AI with aggression set at 100%. The start shows how the same GT4 class cars behave, they are fast and take any opportunity given but also fair and there is only the most minor rubbing contact.

Clip 2 shows the LMP class leaders coming through, where before they would hesitate behind slower class cars they now make much more bold and aggressive moves and yes they will nudge the player car out of the way slightly as you will see in 2 of the overtakes where I was nudged wide onto the kerbs.

Clip 3 shows an LMP class car making an aggressive overtake into a slow corner, off line. As a result the AI car spins, the player car also spins if this line is used. What is impressive is how realistic this is, getting off line overtaking often results in a spin. Note how quickly the LMP car recovers and completes the pass on the straight, previously they took forever to recover (and often retired from the race instead).

The AI now act like real impatient faster class driver at 100% aggression and you'll probably want to drop the aggression level a little for longer races.

I think this is another big improvement to see the faster cars overtaking without hesitation and going for the slightest gap. I've yet to discover the AI aggression sweet spot for me, I suspect it is closer to 80%, and I'll post up when I do.

Doug914
12-02-2018, 10:19
For me a good aggression setting was around 75 % . Although 100% is great for same class closely matched cars. Glad you're enjoying the new overtaking :)

Silraed
12-02-2018, 10:29
I was using 100% aggression before the patch but I'm having to find a new lower setting because at 100% now I'm finding the AI to be almost unpredictable in the braking zones, very twitchy and I've even had them dart across the track in the braking zones taking me and other AI out.

morpwr
12-02-2018, 10:38
Silverstone with the Caterham ai at 80 was great. 20 lap race I got to first by about the middle of the race and spent the entire rest of the race moving between 1 and 4th. Last 2 laps I spent in first defending and actually had the mad dash to the finish line off the last corner with the ai that trying to get inside. They aren't afraid to ruff you up a little either which is good. Starts are much better too. So two thumbs up here!:)

pa_pinkelman
12-02-2018, 12:12
A thumbs up from me for Doug and his team. The ai is so much better now!!!
Great job!!!

Mark Race
12-02-2018, 18:11
Can the V4 Project CARS 2 AI overtake at Daytona Road Course? Oh yes they can! GenBrien asked me to make a video of the performance of the AI in this scenario as he's waiting for the PS4 patch launch, so here is a multi-class race with 8 of each LMP1, LMP2, GTE and GT4 class cars and100% AI aggression to give them maximum overtaking ability.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJydZCeyJmo

Clip 1 0s-1 minute - riding on board with the AI LMP1 car in VR as they slice through the GT4 class AI cars.

Clip 2 1:00-5.20 riding on board with the AI LMP 1 car in VR as they catch and pass the GTE class cars. There is also on board picture in picture footage from my player car C7R so you can see the player perspective. Even when I'm deliberately awkward to pass fighting with the M6 GTE it doesn't take the LMP1 long to get past. They aren't perfect and they do make mistakes and bad overtaking choices but they are so much improved than before.

Clip 3/4 5.20 onward is from my player car perspective, overtaking the GT4 class cars so that you can see how closely the other GTE cars are able to follow me through the traffic. The final clip is chasing another C7R attempting to pass 2 GT4 cars, the AI is a little cautious here and I'm able to take a cheeky overtake past all 3. Sorry about the dodgy audio in these final clips I had Rift audio mirroring on and it messed up the audio quality in the recording.

Hugely improved and all round impressive AI performance from patch V4, much more like racing other humans.

Flamaros
12-02-2018, 18:18
In my opinion this was the case before the patch too. If I crashed or slowed down because I had to let someone through, then the AI slowed down massively too.

The AI will slow down if you just go out of the track. I made a mistake at Immola in the right corner that rise strongly and I saw 2 AI cars apparently waiting for me (after me spin that sent me in the grass).