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View Full Version : Is there a witch-hunt for Projects Cars 2?...SMS are wizards anyway!



Levelup1
29-11-2017, 15:03
First and foremost, I would like to thank SMS, WMD, Ian, and everyone else involved with making this piece of art that is “Project Cars 2”. You have brought back that feeling of a child’s excitement on Christmas day, or when I got one of the oldest consoles “Magnavox ODYSSEY 2” with my first racing game. I told my girlfriend 18 months ago if someone could make a Sim that incorporates aspects of AC/RF2 – handling, Racerooms - sound, and Project Cars - visuals, they would have a masterpiece. For me…this is the closest thing to it. It may not be perfect and does have flaws, but it is still remarkable.

That being said, it is really sad to see people burning torches for this Sim before it even came out. I have read many forums and watched many videos that did not give Project Cars the credit it deserves. It is a “monkey see, monkey do” kind of attitude, sort of speak. Meaning, if someone did not like it, than others should not like it either. Also, not acknowledging all the other Sims in comparison had been out for a while, with their own problems as well. I know, because I own all of them. While, negativity from some individuals outweigh the positive comments from others, not realizing if Project Cars does well, it would make others step their game up. Pun intended! I have played for hours and have not ran into half of the problems some people speak of. Maybe, it is because I tend to stick (shift) with offline mode, or because I do not go looking for problems to begin with. Which, I have seen videos of people trying to find something wrong with the Sim for views. I guess people have a large difference in opinion when it comes to value for money. I tend to look at replay value, and Project Cars 2 will be played in my home for many years to come. Anyway, great work on the patch and future improvements. You really changed the game…for me, literally.

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 15:07
Great post, wise words indeed. There are many people out there who consider it their business to save the world from Project CARS. You just have to hope there are enough other people out there who are prepared, like you, to make up their own mind.

Ofnir4
29-11-2017, 15:20
In this niche of gaming, for a lot of people it is exclusive and binary, you either love or hate something, and if you do, you can't like anything else. Then there are these herd mentalities, like-minded, positive reinforcement behaviour that become toxic in high dosage. You can see entire sites devoted to building a mausoleum for a particular sim, most often built on the bones of "slain" enemies (aka people who likes another sim and dared say otherwise).

Take a look at racedepartment (then wash your hands), look at the way the news are worded depending on the game, go in the comments (wash your hands again) and have your mind blown.
The amount of "likes" a post saying PC2 is trash is ridiculous, then you have staff reinforcing that very type of post, saying they aren't even tempted to play the game.
And if you get likes for trashing a game, why would you do anything else ? Then it becomes a trashing competition from which the site gains with added traffic.

jimortality
29-11-2017, 15:40
I totally agree with all the above but I'm all defended out to write anymore. Pcar2 is amazing.

solocapers
29-11-2017, 15:46
So basically, you are saying that people are just looking for bugs in the game to complain about in some sort of conspiracy against SMS?

Even though the game reviewed pretty well even with the many bugs in the review code noted and most people agree that WHEN it works flawlessly its good.. but because you dont see bugs with the way you play it then it must be people going out their way to find them.

:stupid:

Good grief.

Olijke Poffer
29-11-2017, 15:50
I don’t understand all the negative posts about Pcars in general. It is a marvellous piece of software. Of course it has it’s flaws. Personally I really like the game. For me it is unbelievable that there are a vast amount of gamers whom looking with such tunnel vision.
Anyway, I love the game and will play it as long as I can.. thumbs up for the whole community(not only SMS) which makes it all possible.

MrA2theK
29-11-2017, 15:57
Sadly in this day and age there are a plethora of idiots who obviously have nothing better to do with there time, personally I wish I had that much time on my hands!
I know I would do something far more important..... I have a good few seconds to shave from my Green Hell TT laps :D
Let the haters hate while we carry on enjoying PC2.

beetes_juice
29-11-2017, 15:59
So basically, you are saying that people are just looking for bugs in the game to complain about in some sort of conspiracy against SMS?

Even though the game reviewed pretty well even with the many bugs in the review code noted and most people agree that WHEN it works flawlessly its good.. but because you dont see bugs with the way you play it then it must be people going out their way to find them.

:stupid:

Good grief.

Finding bugs is great and appreciated. Going about it with a 5 year old attitude is not.

Konan
29-11-2017, 16:00
So basically, you are saying that people are just looking for bugs in the game to complain about in some sort of conspiracy against SMS?

Even though the game reviewed pretty well even with the many bugs in the review code noted and most people agree that WHEN it works flawlessly its good.. but because you dont see bugs with the way you play it then it must be people going out their way to find them.

:stupid:

Good grief.

You're generalising here...he didn't say everyone but indeed there are some who effectively look for faults just for the sake of it and when they do find one they'll shout it from the rooftops...

jimmyb_84
29-11-2017, 16:00
First and foremost, I would like to thank SMS, WMD, Ian, and everyone else involved with making this piece of art that is “Project Cars 2”. You have brought back that feeling of a child’s excitement on Christmas day, or when I got one of the oldest consoles “Magnavox ODYSSEY 2” with my first racing game. I told my girlfriend 18 months ago if someone could make a Sim that incorporates aspects of AC/RF2 – handling, Racerooms - sound, and Project Cars - visuals, they would have a masterpiece. For me…this is the closest thing to it. It may not be perfect and does have flaws, but it is still remarkable.

That being said, it is really sad to see people burning torches for this Sim before it even came out. I have read many forums and watched many videos that did not give Project Cars the credit it deserves. It is a “monkey see, monkey do” kind of attitude, sort of speak. Meaning, if someone did not like it, than others should not like it either. Also, not acknowledging all the other Sims in comparison had been out for a while, with their own problems as well. I know, because I own all of them. While, negativity from some individuals outweigh the positive comments from others, not realizing if Project Cars does well, it would make others step their game up. Pun intended! I have played for hours and have not ran into half of the problems some people speak of. Maybe, it is because I tend to stick (shift) with offline mode, or because I do not go looking for problems to begin with. Which, I have seen videos of people trying to find something wrong with the Sim for views. I guess people have a large difference in opinion when it comes to value for money. I tend to look at replay value, and Project Cars 2 will be played in my home for many years to come. Anyway, great work on the patch and future improvements. You really changed the game…for me, literally.

With you all the way, i’ve played 45hrs and i haven’t even started my career yet!

solocapers
29-11-2017, 16:04
You're generalising here...he didn't say everyone but indeed there are some who effectively look for faults just for the sake of it and when they do find one they'll shout it from the rooftops...

Every game has people looking for bugs to create "funny videos" or highlight oddities in a game. I dont get how this game should be any different to not get the same treatment even if I dont understand the point in it all.

Go on youtube and search for a "game + bugs" and you'll see tonnes of videos. Its a total moot point. Or is people just getting a bit upset because its their pride and joy that is being targeted?


Either way, given by these forums, my own time spent with it and forums elsewhere, its clear.. that this game has its problems which will hopefully be fixed for the most part eventually.

Moaning about people making videos about the bugs and insinuating that they are being deliberately setup to put people off the game is ridiculous and paranoid to the extreme.

Konan
29-11-2017, 16:06
Every game has people looking for bugs to create "funny videos"

I dont get how this game is any special to not get the same treatment even if I dont understand the point in it. Go on youtube and search for a "game + bugs" and you'll see tonnes of videos. Its a total moot point.

Or is people getting a bit upset because its their pride and joy that is being targeted?

There's a difference between obvious flaws and a misplaced pixel though...

Mad Al
29-11-2017, 16:09
There's a difference between obvious flaws and a misplaced pixel though...

Shhhh.... don't mention the pixel.. that was squashed ages ago ;)

solocapers
29-11-2017, 16:15
There's a difference between obvious flaws and a misplaced pixel though...


You would hope though that stuff like that is treated for what it is by sane people.

Konan
29-11-2017, 16:28
Of course...but that doesn't change the fact there are individuals out there that live for that stuff...

diesel97
29-11-2017, 16:29
Shhhh.... don't mention the pixel.. that was squashed ages ago ;)

but was it the square pixel?

Francisnf
29-11-2017, 16:31
Excellent post from Levelup1, its shocking to see so much anger and hate towards Project Cars, some of the forums & sites are just outrageous with their anti Project Cars stance.

Thankfully a lot of us see through their nonsense, but its a real shame they have to act in such a way and put potential users off, as it really is a fantastic simulation of Motorsport.

BigFred
29-11-2017, 17:37
I think there are two issues. One is that when you are making a game that prides itself on detail (call it a sim if you will) you are selling to people who are incredibly picky about detail. Nerds if you like. So a tiny lack of detail that would not annoy or even be noticed by a normal person drives a sim nerd into meltdown.

Secondly, if you are a sim racer then you probably only have time to get good at one game. Obviously you will pick the game you prefer, and will laud that as "the one true sim" because that makes you the best/a good driver at "the one true sim". Any other sim has to be rubbished as it is a threat to you being the best at the "one true sim" and therefore the best at being closest to a real driver in real life.

That's the psychology I think. For low achievers like me things like this don't really matter.

From a commercial perspective it's a tough market, because you are trying to please a group of people who are incredibly demanding, but not large in number, making the financial viability of the whole project pretty marginal.

Edit : Oh yes, and add that racers are going to be pretty competitive people anyway.

Raklodder
29-11-2017, 17:44
How does criticizing a game become a witch hunt?

jimortality
29-11-2017, 17:47
How does criticizing a game become a witch hunt?

Go to racedepartment.com and read all the pcar2 threads then come back and let us know if you see a witch hunt.

BigFred
29-11-2017, 17:50
How does criticizing a game become a witch hunt?

Probably when the critique is non constructive and is an attempt to degrade the software in the eyes of others, rather than a clear and well thought out attempt to raise discussion and help developers improve the game.

Mark Race
29-11-2017, 18:16
I have to agree Project CARS 2 is wizardry especially in Oculus VR. I was a mild sceptic that they could pull the rabbit out of the hat after the pcars lauch issues back in 2015 but thast is history now. Judging this game on PC and now on Xbox One X by its own merits it is just superb, of course it isn't perfect but it is thrilling, immersive and satisfying to play. For £37 on PC I've had way more than my £/fun ratio already, no other current racing game gets close to creating the feeling of a wet British race weekend. There are other games that do individual elements better but none that beat the pcars2 package for me. It is by far and away the best VR racer and my all time favourite Oculus VR game so far.

As for the criticisms it is always worth keeping your critical thinking skills on when reading the internet. So many 'opinions' are actually people with an agenda to push or some vested interest in one product or another. RaceDepartment has more than its fair share of fanboys and masquerading developers for several games on the forum. It's good to take a range of views and see where the truth lies. Playing the game and forming my own opinion still works best for me, never once when I was playing the likes of Super Monaco GP in the arcade did I think we'd have games like this in our own homes. The frame of reference we work from makes a big difference in what we expect. My expectations have been excceded this time.

Gloomy
29-11-2017, 18:24
Yeah, I've seen it too. I joined a general sim racing forum, recently, they discuss hardware, share videos of races or attempt to get people to race with, anytime someone mentions project cars 2 there always tends to be several people who want to chime in and criticize it.
I'm in the boat that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when people are looking for help with or trying to find people to race with in project cars 2 and all they do is get bombarded by others telling them to just play iracing, r factor 2 or ac instead isn't helpful, it's just annoying.

Pete Gaimari
29-11-2017, 18:43
I don't need someone else to tell me if I should like or not like a sim. I have a brain and can figure that out for myself.

Konan
29-11-2017, 18:57
I don't need someone else to tell me if I should like or not like a sim. I have a brain and can figure that out for myself.

If only it were that easy...you'd be surprised how many people let their judgement be guided by reviews...good or bad...true or false.

ian2726
29-11-2017, 19:07
With the huge decline in demos these days reviews are where most go rather than spending £60 to find out they don't like a game or it's buggy.
Look at ac unity or no mans sky. No demo lots of hype many people got burned by them.
This was one of my arguments to people bashing SMS for bringing out a demo.
That and give people to the demo to show them that pcars 2 isn't the SHIT show some people would have you believe it is.
More demos of more games to more people.

balderz002
29-11-2017, 19:12
So basically, you are saying that people are just looking for bugs in the game to complain about in some sort of conspiracy against SMS?

Even though the game reviewed pretty well even with the many bugs in the review code noted and most people agree that WHEN it works flawlessly its good.. but because you dont see bugs with the way you play it then it must be people going out their way to find them.

:stupid:

Good grief.

Who's wrong? The person who plays it and see's no bugs, or the person who plays it and see's nothing but bugs?

To me, a lot of the people crying scandal are just looking to get their 5 minutes of fame. The 'look what I did everyone!' kind of try hards who want likes and followers and hashtags named after them.

It might not be perfect, but its far from unplayable as some people try to make out.

Synystr
29-11-2017, 19:14
Oh come on now. This was just fishing for likes XD

WellRED Barron
29-11-2017, 19:14
The formal reviews for PC2 have been pretty solid.

I do think folks, especially on the consoles, can have trouble understanding the nature of a simulation as opposed to a simcade game. Sims aren’t particularly fun. Not in the sense that half an hour of racing will earn you three new cars and a collectible Master Chief drivatar outfit.

The reward for good racing in a sim is learning a whole new track and/or car, and trying to do well again.

The game isn’t how many cars you get, it is how well you do compared to your own personal bests.

And bugs... if you don’t know sims, you don’t understand how complex and bug prone such games are. Next to sandbox games, sims are the most likely to come out with bugs. And unlike sandbox games, balance also has to be adjusted after release for virtually any sim.

Comparing PC2 to AC is fine... but how soon we forget how flawed AC was upon release, and how many months were spent waiting for it to get fixed with patching.

And finally, it is hard to say to someone who doesn’t like PC2 on a controller that what they really need to do is spend $300 on a wheel to really bring it to life.

Us sim racers are a weird, hard core breed. Until a non sim racer has everything click, our favorite sims just don’t do it for them. And even those of us who DO get it forget that a years old sim is going to be more polished than a brand new one.

For the price, nothing today matches PC2 for combined graphics, physics and content... but until the bugs get ironed out, a large percentage will think the game is terrible and many may never return to see it in its final, balanced state.

They are missing out. My favorite time is when a sim is new and the balance issues are being worked out. The game really does have to get released before all the balancing can be properly done. Either that, or keep it in beta for another year before release for WMD members’ eyes only and nobody else.

Konan
29-11-2017, 19:16
Oh come on now. This was just fishing for likes XD

He got one from me....ah heck...i'm in a good mood...you get one too...:cool:

John Hargreaves
29-11-2017, 19:22
Who's wrong? The person who plays it and see's no bugs, or the person who plays it and see's nothing but bugs?

To me, a lot of the people crying scandal are just looking to get their 5 minutes of fame. The 'look what I did everyone!' kind of try hards who want likes and followers and hashtags named after them.

It might not be perfect, but its far from unplayable as some people try to make out.

Can't think of a more sensible way to describe it. Sure, some parts of the game are still being sorted, but there is so much there I can't believe anyone who says they can't find anything to do. There are plenty of sims out there that have been out for years and still have many issues; DCS world has its share of troubles as do many more.

If it's a complex simulation, stuff will break from time to time, but the fact remains it's still just a videogame, not a cure for cancer.

SpikyCactus
29-11-2017, 19:34
Some good points from OP and a number of posts after that.

Pretty upsetting to see a lot of hate on this game. Some people trying to find a reason to bash the game trying to nitpick some things within it to say it's trash. And it seems to have continued even with the recent patch that came out unfortunately.

Oh well, haters gonna hate. But in the meantime while they're missing out bigtime we'll enjoy the heck out of this title and thank the devs and everyone involved for their hard work in the past several months.

henki
29-11-2017, 19:37
I think the best way to drive away the haters is to ignore them and write your positive experiences in forums.

Mad Al
29-11-2017, 19:54
but was it the square pixel?

Square, white and lived in the top left corner of the screen..

Konan
29-11-2017, 20:00
Square, white and lived in the top left corner of the screen..

You do know the nitpickers are going to look for that now right?
I can see an overflow of YouTube videos coming if they actually do find one...LOL

Patrik Marek
29-11-2017, 21:20
also, if game has 250 features, 100+ cars, 70 or so tracks, dynamic everything, .. guess what, chances are higher that something will go wrong that if the game has 30 cars on 10 tracks with locked/pre baked eveyrthing :)

TorTorden
29-11-2017, 22:35
With the huge decline in demos these days reviews are where most go rather than spending £60 to find out they don't like a game or it's buggy.
Look at ac unity or no mans sky. No demo lots of hype many people got burned by them.
This was one of my arguments to people bashing SMS for bringing out a demo.
That and give people to the demo to show them that pcars 2 isn't the SHIT show some people would have you believe it is.
More demos of more games to more people.

But with the steam refund policy of either two hours of play or two weeks of ownership, demos aren't that needed.

I realised I would never bother with Asseto Corsa after 15 minutes.
Few days later. Money is back on my debit card.

Ian Bell
29-11-2017, 22:55
Every game has people looking for bugs to create "funny videos" or highlight oddities in a game. I dont get how this game should be any different to not get the same treatment even if I dont understand the point in it all.

Go on youtube and search for a "game + bugs" and you'll see tonnes of videos. Its a total moot point. Or is people just getting a bit upset because its their pride and joy that is being targeted?


Either way, given by these forums, my own time spent with it and forums elsewhere, its clear.. that this game has its problems which will hopefully be fixed for the most part eventually.

Moaning about people making videos about the bugs and insinuating that they are being deliberately setup to put people off the game is ridiculous and paranoid to the extreme.

It's not just that though. We had a 1 out of 5 rating for our demo on one of the Windows sites within 5 minutes of the demo being available. Inadequate time to download install boot and turn on... That was from 18 users IIRC...

We have a team of people who hate pCARS travelling every forum they can telling everyone how utterly terrible it is, constantly, in every pCARS thread, on an almost daily basis. They jump on every positive thread telling others they're wrong and spend time in every negative thread reinforcing how correct they were... Some of the forums almost encourage it. The same energy is never applied to others in the sim field.

I do think we get an unfair shake in general. I find it quite sad as we took a list of every sim fan wish for features in pCARS2 and managed to get nearly everything people wanted in there.

On one popular forum covering many games, 2 people have passed 50 posts in our section telling everyone how much they hate the game, both professing to not even have the game anymore, because they hate it... That's some dedicated negative energy I don't see applied to other games.

Now there are some games I don't like but I wouldn't dream of wasting my time on forums about said game telling the users how much I hate it...

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 23:09
It's not just that though. We had a 1 out of 5 rating for our demo on one of the Windows sites within 5 minutes of the demo being available. Inadequate time to download install boot and turn on... That was from 18 users IIRC...

We have a team of people who hate pCARS travelling every forum they can telling everyone how utterly terrible it is, constantly, in every pCARS thread, on an almost daily basis. They jump on every positive thread telling others they're wrong and spend time in every negative thread reinforcing how correct they were... Some of the forums almost encourage it. The same energy is never applied to others in the sim field.

I do think we get an unfair shake in general. I find it quite sad as we took a list of every sim fan wish for features in pCARS2 and managed to get nearly everything people wanted in there.

On one popular forum covering many games, 2 people have passed 50 posts in our section telling everyone how much they hate the game, both professing to not even have the game anymore, because they hate it... That's some dedicated negative energy I don't see applied to other games.

Now there are some games I don't like but I wouldn't dream of wasting my time on forums about said game telling the users how much I hate it...

I find it odd, too. The better the game, the more organized are the haters.

Be assured, taking many perspectives and measures into account, pCars2 is a great package, with great graphics, reference VR, realistic physics, enormous content, responsive devs - and lots of fun to have with it!

Please keep going, don't get mainstream like sterile F7 or PS4 limited GTS. Time will tell... i'm sure i speak for a solid massive pCars player base.

IceShaft
29-11-2017, 23:14
It's not just that though. We had a 1 out of 5 rating for our demo on one of the Windows sites within 5 minutes of the demo being available. Inadequate time to download install boot and turn on... That was from 18 users IIRC...

We have a team of people who hate pCARS travelling every forum they can telling everyone how utterly terrible it is, constantly, in every pCARS thread, on an almost daily basis. Some of the forums almost encourage it. The same energy is never applied to others in the sim field.

I do think we get an unfair shake in general. I find it quite sad.

On one popular forum covering many games, 2 people have passed 50 posts in our section telling everyone how much they hate the game, both professing to not even have the game anymore, because they hate it... That's some dedicated negative energy I don't see applied to other games.

Now there are some games I don't like but I wouldn't dream of wasting my time on forums about said game telling the users how much I hate it...

Just look at the comments under the latest ProjectCars post on Instagram (the one about Yorkie's WRX tutorial) and most of the other posts on that page... It can't be normal, it can't be "natural", I don't want to believe that and it's sad just thinking about it.
Is there a way to prevent this? To fight this situation? It must be so frustrating for you DEVs and PRs to know that everything you post on those platforms it's going to receive so much hate...

Nyreen
29-11-2017, 23:16
Mainstream ? I don't think it has such place in the video-gaming industry. There are just games more suited for the pleb I think.

I don't want our game to stay lowkey, I want people to join the simracing community !

Ian Bell
29-11-2017, 23:31
Just look at the comments under the latest ProjectCars post on Instagram (the one about Yorkie's WRX tutorial) and most of the other posts on that page... It can't be normal, it can't be "natural", I don't want to believe that and it's sad just thinking about it.
Is there a way to prevent this? To fight this situation? It must be so frustrating for you DEVs and PRs to know that everything you post on those platforms it's going to receive so much hate...

It's very frustrating for our media team yes and we're coming to the conclusion that it might be impossible for us to win. It's simply heartbreaking for us to have put everything into making 'the best and most complete simulator ever' to have to read this. As you mention, the seething vitriolic hate we get following say posting a nice screenshot on Instagram is almost unreadable and probably dangerous to the mental health of our media people...

Take this little example where I was very patient to a chap being, well read for yourself: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54610-UI-elements-not-working-as-intended

This gentleman has reported me and my company to Steam for abuse. He also reported Mahjik. For this thread only...

This isn't at all uncommon. He's given our game a thumbs down on Steam stating he was treated very rudely by me...

This brings up the wider point on communication. We've been as open, communicative and interactive as we possibly could be and I would say more so than any other developers I know. For those efforts we're openly personally abused. We're also told to get professionals in to do it as we have no clue. When we don't communicate as much for a small time (and we've trialed it), we're accused of ignoring our costumers, being money grabbers, etc etc...

I know of three separate reports to the UK government accusing us of fraudulent trading practices and false advertising... This is with pCARS2 containing about 40 unadvertised features...

It really does make you start to consider if it's worth giving it your all to move sim racing forward or just work other genres with much less of this sort of behaviour and a much larger audience...

Ian Bell
29-11-2017, 23:41
While I'm on a roll :)

Two popular youtube vloggers suggested our game wasn't worth buying and have since been running videos almost non-stop of themselves having an epic time (and a lot of hits) clearly loving the game...

How does that work? :)

GenBrien
29-11-2017, 23:41
It really does make you start to consider if it's worth giving it your all to move sim racing forward or just work other genres with much less of this sort of behaviour and a much larger audience...

it'll be the same anyway
look anygame on FB and people are just moaning

some are worst than others(EA...), but you dont get praised very often in the video game industry this days....
better stick to what you like IMHO

IceShaft
29-11-2017, 23:43
I don’t know what to say, really... the worst part of this is that you can’t even just ignore them. You’re forced to interact with them somehow, you can’t leave the field otherwise they will flood inside and spread like a virus.
I would never walk in the shoes of your media team, I wouldn’t know how to deal with all this over and over...

But I know for sure that the, silent, majority really loves this game and is just busy playing and enjoying deeply what you achieved with PC2.
Like I said before, it is a dream come true for me and I guess for every cars lover out there. It can’t be any other way!
Please be patient, I’ll always support the game and send good vibes to you and the whole team!

Ian Bell
29-11-2017, 23:44
it'll be the same anyway
look anygame on FB and people are just moaning

some are worst than others, but you dont get praised very often in the video game industry this days....
better stick to what you like IMHO

Moaning we get. Go read our instagram and come back to me. This is way WAY beyond moaning. It's almost threatening in a palpable sense. We are now having to block commentary from official videos as reading it one would think we shipped a 35% rated honker, stole people's wallets and punched their kitten.

Oh, nearly forgot. The amount of people that have threatened to punch me if they met me is fun. They'd all need to come at me at once to have half a chance though :)

Pete Gaimari
29-11-2017, 23:46
I don't know. The kitten's jaw does look a little swollen.

cjhill44
29-11-2017, 23:46
Keep going Ian and SMS team, don't let the minority put you down. Despite a few bugs here and there (which I like to report when I find them so that I can help you to help us) ....you are all doing a great job overall

Roushman624
29-11-2017, 23:51
I don't understand why SMS get so much hate but in my honest opinion, they have the best racing game to date... I have F1 16/17, AC, Forza and I've played iracing and raceroom. All are good games but do not compare to the content and the authenticity that SMS are bringing to the table. All the hate is nonsense by people who most likely have never played the game and most likely never will. I hate to see a developer but their *** only to be ridiculed like this. It needs to stop in order to progress as a community...

Sum Dixon-Ear
29-11-2017, 23:55
Tribalism, payed trolling and media bias... tis the way of the modern world. Go against the grain, upset the applecart and they're coming for you.

Take it as a huge compliment, you are being noticed... and noticed in a way that upsets the big guns...

...first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Nearly there SMS... LOL!

eracerhead
29-11-2017, 23:58
All I’ll say is that for both games, I’ve come to sorely miss the small-group dynamic of WMD,
once the games are out in the wild. That alone is worth the price of admission every time.

Tank621
29-11-2017, 23:59
Can someone give Ian a hug?
246244

Sum Dixon-Ear
30-11-2017, 00:08
It really does make you start to consider if it's worth giving it your all to move sim racing forward or just work other genres with much less of this sort of behaviour and a much larger audience...

Don't you ever say that again or I will kick you right in those furry Wookie plums.

Roushman624
30-11-2017, 00:14
Don't you ever say that again or I will kick you right in those furry Wookie plums.

Hahahaha. This comment made my day.:)

H1LLIER
30-11-2017, 00:17
I agree completely with OP. Other than people complaining for the sake of it I just don't understand the negativity. Haters gonna hate though, eh?

As a package pCARS 2 is second to none. It looks great, it sounds great, it feels great and most importantly it's fun.

It's not perfect but it's more than good enough for me. I'm sure if Selina Gomez was your girlfriend she'd get on your nerves sometimes but unlike pCars 2 no-one is gonna come and patch Miss Gomez to fix the things that annoy you.... You know what I mean?

amigastar
30-11-2017, 00:36
I don't understand negativity towards PCars 2 also. Just tried Ferrari LaFerrari on Red Bull Ring in both AC and PCars 2 and honestly? I like it better in PCars 2.
PCars 2 delivers the beauty of Driving so convincing that it's a joy to drive. Not saying that AC is bad in any way, though.

Roushman624
30-11-2017, 00:46
I don't understand negativity towards PCars 2 also. Just tried Ferrari LaFerrari on Red Bull Ring in both AC and PCars 2 and honestly? I like it better in PCars 2.
PCars 2 delivers the beauty of Driving so convincing that it's a joy to drive. Not saying that AC is bad in any way, though.
The cockpit sound in Project Cars is very close to the real thing. I'm hoping SMS really nail the FXXK too!

Synystr
30-11-2017, 00:56
But realistically, saying the game has some issues (most of which have been fixed with the recent patch) isn't "hating" on it.

For most of us, we are criticising it because we've spent so much time in it already. Pretending to be totally oblivious as to why some are upset with the game; or saying its the second coming of Christ, isn't going to help anyone.

But on the flip side, saying the game is shit right off the bat isn't helping either.

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 01:00
But realistically, saying the game has some issues (most of which have been fixed with the recent patch) isn't "hating" on it.

For most of us, we are criticising it because we've spent so much time in it already. Pretending to be totally oblivious as to why some are upset with the game; saying its the second coming of Christ, isn't going to help anyone.

But on the flip side, saying the game is shit right off the bat isn't helping either.

This isn't about people saying the game has issues. Read my posts from page 4 onward also. The abuse we receive is worlds apart from 'criticism'. We pay drivers for criticism, we maintain WMD for years for criticism. We actively ask for criticism. 'Vitriolic spitting hatred' is the issue we're struggling with as all we have done for many years is try to please the sim community and give them everything they want.

We're being threatened legally, physically, constantly and cursed at every turn for trying to please.

Sum Dixon-Ear
30-11-2017, 01:07
This isn't about people saying the game has issues. Read my posts from page 4 onward also. The abuse we receive is worlds apart from 'criticism'. We pay drivers for criticism, we maintain WMD for years for criticism. We actively ask for criticism. 'Vitriolic spitting hatred' is the issue we're struggling with as all we have done for many years is try to please the sim community and give them everything they want.

We're being threatened legally, physically, constantly and cursed at every turn for trying to please.

Wow, sounds like you have won already! Two games in and the rest are trying to destroy you... congrats. I'm stunned at the level of vitriol tbh.

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 01:15
Wow, sounds like you have won already! Two games in and the rest are trying to destroy you... congrats. I'm stunned at the level of vitriol tbh.

What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...

Roushman624
30-11-2017, 01:19
What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...
Ian I say just keep giving it your all and eventually you will be able to trump the likes of Turn10 and PD.

diesel97
30-11-2017, 01:21
What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...

Look on the bright side Need for Speed and Battfront 2 are getting a lot more hate then you. Just imagine being in EA's shoes?

SunnySunday
30-11-2017, 01:22
This isn't about people saying the game has issues. Read my posts from page 4 onward also. The abuse we receive is worlds apart from 'criticism'. We pay drivers for criticism, we maintain WMD for years for criticism. We actively ask for criticism. 'Vitriolic spitting hatred' is the issue we're struggling with as all we have done for many years is try to please the sim community and give them everything they want.

We're being threatened legally, physically, constantly and cursed at every turn for trying to please.

Not that I don't feel your pain, and I think the hatred toward Project cars and your team is awful and I do my best to try to talk sense into people when they unleash themselves. Some constructive critisism from my end, now I'm not saying I know exactly why this "hate wave" have occured but in my opinion I think it lays with how you guys announce and hype things. And I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

You often see statements as "the most advanced ever made", and "we have the best" this and that. I personally think it would be better if you let the game speak for itself, rather than trying to hype features as much as you can. I think this kinda pisses people off. You sometimes comes off as arrogant and somewhat egocentric. Now this doesn't by any means justify the hate, but I think this contributes to what we are seeing.

Now this may come from you beeing extremely passionate about what you do, which of course is awesome. But maybe you need to find a way to tone it down a bit.

Or it could just be that people just need someone to bully, and it just happened to be you and your game. Either way, it really sucks.

Roushman624
30-11-2017, 01:23
You already offer more than any other racing game. I have fell in love with Project Cars 2 after loving the first. The passion I have for this game is incredible and I would be so saddened if SMS ever stop. Maybe if you can give gamepad users full steering animation it would be the best.:cool:;)

Sum Dixon-Ear
30-11-2017, 01:35
What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...

Take every bit of shallow, mindless, gutter-level bollocks for what it is... shallow, mindless, gutter-level bollocks. You have created something special here, that does not sit well with certain factions who have their own vested interests. Stay strong and true to what you are already doing, firm hand on that tiller and you will sail out the shitstorm. You deserve plaudits of the highest order... from myself and others on here, I applaude you all. Keep going, for all our sakes.

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 01:39
Look on the bright side Need for Speed and Battfront 2 are getting a lot more hate then you. Just imagine being in EA's shoes?

Yeah, we don't have loot boxes though. Not a single MT in the game...

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 01:41
Not that I don't feel your pain, and I think the hatred toward Project cars and your team is awful and I do my best to try to talk sense into people when they unleash themselves. Some constructive critisism from my end, now I'm not saying I know exactly why this "hate wave" have occured but in my opinion I think it lays with how you guys announce and hype things. And I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

You often see statements as "the most advanced ever made", and "we have the best" this and that. I personally think it would be better if you let the game speak for itself, rather than trying to hype features as much as you can. I think this kinda pisses people off. You sometimes comes off as arrogant and somewhat egocentric. Now this doesn't by any means justify the hate, but I think this contributes to what we are seeing.

Now this may come from you beeing extremely passionate about what you do, which of course is awesome. But maybe you need to find a way to tone it down a bit.

Or it could just be that people just need someone to bully, and it just happened to be you and your game. Either way, it really sucks.

We don't do the marketing...

And honestly if we have a few key things above others our publishers need to be able to mention it.

Roushman624
30-11-2017, 01:44
Yeah, we don't have loot boxes though. Not a single MT in the game...

You don't know how happy I am that you do not have any MT. It makes me want to spend more on your game lol. Good marketing Ian.

Christiaan van Beilen
30-11-2017, 01:46
Ugh, I just read a couple of the latest posts. I thought we were having a great game here in every aspect you can imagine.
I honestly cannot believe what some people even dare to do, sadly reading it here from Ian's own hand it must be true.
Sometimes I wonder if some of these people are goons hired by competitors to destroy the competition. Cause if there is one thing I have learned is that there are a tiny handful of really good folk in this world, but there is a greater group of dirty sneaky rotten to the core beings that you wouldn't believe are human anymore by their actions alone.

Ian, can I personally ask you and the team to stick at it. Cause this is exactly also in a way how the flight Sim genre died. The community became rotten to its core and after the developers just threw in the towel. Which is the last thing I want to see.
For me, ever since I joined WMD 1, there has not been a better Sim racing game than that which you guys produce with the Project Cars franchise. Forza and GT are arcade games by comparison, even AC and iRacing have clearly fallen behind. RF2, R3E, Automobilista... I haven't even bothered to look at them in a very long time.
There truly is just one Sim and one game engine that I acknowledge as properly dynamically simulating a car and its environment, and that is what you guys have produced together. Something only a brilliant team with enough passion and dedication could pull off, because others would have said far earlier that... Okay this is good enough, if we put more man hours into this it will just cost us. I have seen you guys go at it for many may years now, and one thing is for sure... you guys will even push on in the weekends and through sleepless nights, because you'll be damned if you can't get it right.

Ian, without your passionate team creating that which I and I think many with me love... is there still a hobby for us left to enjoy? For us who simply want the best that is.


Ian, I really hope you won't quit making Project CARS because of all of this. In fact I hope WMD 3 will be upon us rather sooner than... never.

Stay strong, Ian.


ps. I don't know what AJ or the rest of the bunch did to STM but even with my extremely Raw custom ffb file there is a lot more road feedback coming through. That not alone but the tyres feel so much better, not even speaking about the difference in behavior between modern radial and the L49 bias ply tyres.

Sadly a running nose due to the flue made me throw off my Vive, but else I'd be still immersed into the game now. Wonderful stuff... so wonderful that if they can't find me during Christmas... :rolleyes:

Christiaan van Beilen
30-11-2017, 01:56
Yeah, we don't have loot boxes though. Not a single MT in the game...

Which I love. I don't play games for gambling ethics. Besides, I think games with gambling aspects need to be PEGI 18 rated by default... which the PEGI 12 rates Need For Loot boxes (and checkpoints) is not.

Personally I find it disgusting of EA that they let children gamble with their allowance money in order to profit from that pocket money.
EA more and more makes sure I will never buy from them again.

Besides that I just hate loot boxes and other mobile phone like monitisations of games. It makes me want to quit the hobby of gaming altogether, as gaming for me always has been a fun challenge and every genre offered different kinds of challenges. As you completed challenges you would further your game progress and as an extra good feel about the completion you might unlock something. So it's just a fun and relaxing way to make yourself feel good in your free time by improving your gaming abilities and getting insentives to keep on going.

Maybe I am too old school of a gamer though and the millennial generation desires a completely different gaming experience. Who knows?

WellRED Barron
30-11-2017, 01:57
It sure would be cool if marketing made a bigger deal out of why this game is called Project CARS. There is a mission behind this project, crowdfunding, and players can be far more hands on than your average racer through the development process if they wish to.

Just typing aloud.

Lplate
30-11-2017, 02:09
Keep your spirits high, don't give up.

Gt sport and forza don't get the hate right now but I am seeing people now realize that it just doesn't compare to project cars 2.
Been watching some online races at youtube, IT's a crazy mess or cheaters crashing others out and exploiting penalties.

People will move over to the better games over time.

"No mans sky" got the most hate That I'v ever seen in recent times. It not really the type of game I like to play but I give them credit.
They pulled out lots of great updates and pretty much everything that they said would be in the game Is in at this poiont.
Just checked, nearly 1000 players online playing right now with recent reviews mostly positive.
The forums isnt filled with haters anymore either.

The haters will get bored and move on eventually.

cpcdem
30-11-2017, 02:11
I am gonna state the obvious I think, but didn't you guys expect all that? You have become dangerous to many with PC2, since despite its (still several) issues, it clearly in my opinion has the potential to make any other competing game in the same category completely obsolete and very soon. Of course there would be fighting back on that and the amount of the vitriol you are getting shows how much people are afraid of PC2. That's the way of the internet unfortunately, it's so easy for people to make payed or not attacks on every aspect of life, be it games, politics, sports or what not. I'd never want to be a guy having to deal with all that of course though, but if I did, I think the one thing I would be repeating to myself is to keep remembering that all those shameless attacks are not "normal", there's an agenda behind them. And due to such very obvious blind attacks, I think it does make a lot of sense to disable comments etc. As I said, I wouldn't like to be in your guys' position, but then again, maybe I would, having created this fantastic game would have felt really nice! Maybe I would try to respond to those attacks silently by getting even more determined to improve PC2 to become the absolute racing game that it deserves to be...

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 02:12
Keep your spirits high, don't give up.

Gt sport and forza don't get the hate right now but I am seeing people now realize that it just doesn't compare to project cars 2.
Been watching some online races at youtube, IT's a crazy mess or cheaters crashing others out and exploiting penalties.

People will move over to the better games over time.

"No mans sky" got the most hate That I'v ever seen in recent times. It not really the type of game I like to play but I give them credit.
They pulled out lots of great updates and pretty much everything that they said would be in the game Is in at this poiont.
Just checked, nearly 1000 players online playing right now with recent reviews mostly positive.
The forums isnt filled with haters anymore either.

The haters will get bored and move on eventually.

I wish that were so. The two people I referenced on page 4 have been diligently at it for five years now. Daily, unremitting, every thread... They are aided and abetted by a few others (always the same 5-7 people) with slightly less diligence but equal vehemence.

GenBrien
30-11-2017, 02:14
The two people I referenced on page 4 have been diligently at it for five years now. Daily, unremitting, every thread... They are aided and abetted by a few others (always the same 5-7 people) with slightly less diligence but equal vehemence.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/286/870/cf7.jpg

Mr Schumacher
30-11-2017, 02:17
I don’t understand all the negative posts about Pcars in general. It is a marvellous piece of software. Of course it has it’s flaws. Personally I really like the game. For me it is unbelievable that there are a vast amount of gamers whom looking with such tunnel vision.
Anyway, I love the game and will play it as long as I can.. thumbs up for the whole community(not only SMS) which makes it all possible.

The reason we complain so much.. The reason we’re so critical of PCars 2, is because our passion for this sim and sim racing in General. A squeaky wheel doesn’t get oil, so how can our favorite Sim get better if we keep quiet

GTsimms
30-11-2017, 02:23
I was able to see the game from the WMD side of things this time. The knowledge of the SMS team is just amazing! SMS should be credited for the best simulation game period. The negativity seems to be mostly coming from those with a real lack of knowledge of real vehicles. To me it's interesting to read some of the posts like ex: Motor City Hamilton. (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/this-looks-better-than-gt-sport-but-i-dont-want-it-to-be-is-it.367229/#post-12047827)

Innerspace HQ
30-11-2017, 02:29
I wish that were so. The two people I referenced on page 4 have been diligently at it for five years now. Daily, unremitting, every thread... They are aided and abetted by a few others (always the same 5-7 people) with slightly less diligence but equal vehemence.

Cults have been started with less dedicated followers. I don't envy you one bit. It's pretty common that most consumer reviews tend to lean toward being negative, but being stalked across platforms is something... else. Gamer culture is seriously toxic at best. No good deed goes unpunished.

MISTER WU
30-11-2017, 02:43
It's very frustrating for our media team yes and we're coming to the conclusion that it might be impossible for us to win. It's simply heartbreaking for us to have put everything into making 'the best and most complete simulator ever' to have to read this. As you mention, the seething vitriolic hate we get following say posting a nice screenshot on Instagram is almost unreadable and probably dangerous to the mental health of our media people...

Take this little example where I was very patient to a chap being, well read for yourself: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54610-UI-elements-not-working-as-intended

This gentleman has reported me and my company to Steam for abuse. He also reported Mahjik. For this thread only...

This isn't at all uncommon. He's given our game a thumbs down on Steam stating he was treated very rudely by me...

This brings up the wider point on communication. We've been as open, communicative and interactive as we possibly could be and I would say more so than any other developers I know. For those efforts we're openly personally abused. We're also told to get professionals in to do it as we have no clue. When we don't communicate as much for a small time (and we've trialed it), we're accused of ignoring our costumers, being money grabbers, etc etc...

I know of three separate reports to the UK government accusing us of fraudulent trading practices and false advertising... This is with pCARS2 containing about 40 unadvertised features...

It really does make you start to consider if it's worth giving it your all to move sim racing forward or just work other genres with much less of this sort of behaviour and a much larger audience...

Couple of things i might add as well.

First people hate it when ian tells them to nick off and then they troll the steam forums, i say who cares because i find it funny to watch Ian tell people to p**s off.
Second, i can only go by my experience lately with Dirt 4, that is a joke as far as community engagement goes. Yes the game has so much potential but they have left it to wither and die which is a shame.

One thing i do know is that the people at pcars actually bloody well listen and to say other wise is just not on mate.
Go read any other game on steam and see how long it takes to get a reply, if any at all. Go look at Bug Bear with wreck fest. Like 2 years with out any communication!.


People need to know that here, you have an opportunity to ask and speak to the CEO of a gaming company and as far as i know this isnt done any where else.

I will also admit that with pcars1, i was a hater at the start with all that AMD drama but then the patches came out and it all got sorted and was the main if not only game i ever played.
The only real gripe i have with pcars2 is the lack of voice chat which PS4 players get, thats all that really bugs me but something i can live with.

Anyway, only got a 4 minute chance to test the patch last night before making dinner so hopefully i get time tonight.
I didn find VR in the oculus to eb really jittery but i might try changing USB ports because i have the sensors in the front USB ports!

Keep up what you guys are doing here on the forum Ian and Malik etc etc, communicate, engage and most of all let us the players know if somethign is a yay or a nay so people dont get their hopes up.

Cheers

Just Another Frog
30-11-2017, 04:20
If I could throw my thoughts into the pot. I'm part of a very close community of racing fans - a group of individuals from various parts of Europe who came together at the time of the original NFS:HP2 (on PC) and have pretty much remained friends and (albeit not very good) competitive drivers ever since. We race anything for fun and nothing more. But the thing is, avid racers as we all well may be we don't (and the majority of us probably never will) race PCars 2 at all. Not because it's a poor game because it isn't, but purely and simply because of the treatment one or two of us were subjected when we tried (and failed miserably) to be part of a constructive community within these forums back in the days of PC1. Sure, I absolutely grant SMS the fact that a huge chunk of those comments (in particular within the XB1 section) were abusive, offensive and generally out of order - but in amongst that relentless onslaught of hate were other comments that although slightly (and rightfully) less favourable towards the game did offer a degree of constructive critisism in a considerably less offensive tone.

I mean absolutely no offence to anyone when I say this but the underlying opinion of a great deal of those "fanboys" and the likes seemed to be that if quite literaly anyone spoke ill of Project Cars in any way, shape or form then that signalled an open invitation for them to be torn to pieces. One of our group was blitzed by hate PM's for an entire day for god's sake. No wonder he wiped his hands with the whole affair.

All i'm trying to say is that whilst some of this hate is as Ian implies clearly there to be seen and does lack any form of justification (I fail to see why people want to do things like that) there is also a very different kind of hate out there which is driven by a certain thing called ''principles''... I certainly know thirteen people who as a direct result of what went on with PC1 chose to excercise those principles and won't ever go back on their word - and i'm pretty sure they're not the only ones who share that opinion.

Ok, that's my story so feel free to disagree. Again, no offence intended and apologies for any typo's (it's not easy doing this on an XB1 controller).

Ian Bell
30-11-2017, 04:25
If I could throw my thoughts into the pot. I'm part of a very close community of racing fans - a group of individuals from various parts of Europe who came together at the time of the original NFS:HP2 (on PC) and have pretty much remained friends and (albeit not very good) competitive drivers ever since. We race anything for fun and nothing more. But the thing is, avid racers as we all well may be we don't (and the majority of us probably never will) race PCars 2 at all. Not because it's a poor game because it isn't, but purely and simply because of the treatment one or two of us were subjected when we tried (and failed miserably) to be part of a constructive community within these forums back in the days of PC1. Sure, I absolutely grant SMS the fact that a huge chunk of those comments (in particular within the XB1 section) were abusive, offensive and generally out of order - but in amongst that relentless onslaught of hate were other comments that although slightly (and rightfully) less favourable towards the game did offer a degree of constructive critisism in a considerably less offensive tone.

I mean absolutely no offence to anyone when I say this but the underlying opinion of a great deal of those "fanboys" and the likes seemed to be that if quite literaly anyone spoke ill of Project Cars in any way, shape or form then. that was an invitation for them to be torn to pieces. One of our group was blitzed by hate PM's for an entire day for god's sake. No wonder he wiped his hands with the whole affair.

All i'm trying to say is that whilst some of this hate is as Ian implies clearly there to be seen and does lack any form of justification (I fail to see why people want to do things like that) there is also a very different kind of hate out there that driven by a certain thing called ''principles''... I certainly know thirteen people who as a direct result of what went on with PC1 chose to excercise those principles and won't ever go back on their word - and i'm pretty sure they're not the only ones who share that opinion.

Ok, that's my story so feel free to disagree. No offence intended and apologies for any typo's (it's not easy doing this on an XB1 controller).

I'll say this once more only. No one ever has had any issues ever with us for providing constructive criticism. We're actively asking for and in certain cases, paying for it.

The discussion we're having is on a whole other level relating to threats, legal and physical and unjustified hatred and vitriol.

We're done with it.

Just Another Frog
30-11-2017, 04:30
Ok point taken. Apologies

P75
30-11-2017, 04:37
People really need to start thinking about how they complain and/or criticise games. Of course it's okay to do both and I'm sure Ian and the rest of SMS wouldn't have it any other way. Having said that, to verbally attack, abuse and even threat the people who work the lower part of their backs off every day to make the game the best it can possibly be is just unacceptable. I don't understand why people behave this way. I wish I could say it's because they forget that they are adressing real people, people with feelings to hurt, but sadly I don't think that's the case. This is all about hate and there's nothing constructive about that.

Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of criticism for PC1 (and some for PC2), but instead of going at it for an eternity and posting trash on various forums, I simply quit and moved on to a sim I liked better at the time. It really IS that simple.

To Ian and SMS: You have every right to be proud of what you achieved. Let no one tell you otherwise. Project Cars 2 is simply amazing. Dynamic weather, dynamic tracks and day/night cycle is something the competition can only dream of at the moment. Not only have you done these things, but they are pretty damn close to perfection now with very few glitches. These parts of the game have blown me away. The physics and handling has also improved a lot from PC1. The game is not perfect and I honestly don't think it ever will be, but with each iteration of Project Cars you come closer and closer. I love how you guys think BIG with everything you do with this francise. You don't settle for working along the boundaries, you break them and that in my humble opinion is what makes you the aptly named Slightly Mad Studios. I hope these trolls won't succeed in intimidating you to think small just to please them.

Konan
30-11-2017, 05:14
What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...

Your son Ian is a standup guy!
I've gotten to know him a little better on Discord and i must say the apple didn't fall far from the tree :cool:
He's really a cool dude to interact with and has the wits about him that his father has.
It would indeed be a shame to let some morons destroy that.
I can only imagine being a father myself how frustrating you must feel trying to shield him from things you have little to no control over...
Hats off to both of you (and the entire team) for doing what you're doing despite all the BS you have to deal with...

Dresden
30-11-2017, 05:24
I am sort of caught between the two. I appreciate the open way that Ian and the team communicate on these forums, which no other developer does. But it does frustrate me the number of posts that are closed for being negative. Perhaps the moderators did remove some 'excessive posts' before I logged on but I still sometimes I think 'man, that is bull-crap to shut down that thread.' Ian is very open but is also very strong with his comments and this does generate a strong reply sometimes.

I also believe that Pcars 2 was a very poor console release, which is at odds with so many comments by Ian and The American (at GTplanet) that said 'everything is great on console.' But I must admit that the old Xbox console is simply not good enough to play this game, so as I said I am sitting on the fence here.

Yes, I can understand much of the criticism but I also understand why the game is so bad on the very limiting Xbox. Perhaps Xbox gamers should see just how good the PC version is and the PC gamers should step away and see the problems that we console guys experience. In other words see the world outside our shell.

WellRED Barron
30-11-2017, 05:45
The leap from Xbox to One X was worth it. Kinda the best of both worlds PC and console.

But I hear you, the One shows its limits with PC2 and it makes it a harder game because of it. Here’s hoping the patch solves the major issues for you. God knows I spent a few hundred hours on the One before I upgraded. I know how it is. I am afraid the time to upgrade might be now, not next generation. Especially if you are a sim racer. We sit so close. But it is really improving all new AAA games and many AA games not just racing games.

SunnySunday
30-11-2017, 05:47
"fix the audio" types of statements are definitely frowned upon with good reason. "Fix the game", "fix the ai", "fix online".... Seriously what do you expect with these kind of demands with no further elaboration?

jimortality
30-11-2017, 05:50
I find on other forums, there is a mindset of people who are stuck playing sims from 10 plus years ago and are reluctant to move forward so anything that threatens their older games must be put down. There is also the sheep effect where people will just follow others around in pcars bashing and it's the same people who bashed pcars 1 are doing the same for pcar2. They were going to bash it whatever the state of the game was. Then there is the snobbery in sim racing which is getting worse then you have the people that quite like pcars but won't say so in public because they don't want others to see them actually liking pcars in fear of being ostracised from their little groups lol.

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 05:55
I hope that you Ian and your whole team will keep up the good work. There will be always morons in the world. Very sad but it is the truth. I really hope Project Cars will continue and evolve. It truly is a master piece despite some flaws.
Great work team...

jimortality
30-11-2017, 06:19
I think I might start banning myself from forums so I don't have to read the shit that gets posted. If they were as critical of the other sims then fine but when the majority of the members staff included all jump on the bandwagon, you're fighting a losing battle because whatever you post, some prick will always come in the thread to derail it.

mister dog
30-11-2017, 07:13
This is mostly a remainder of PC1. People really expected a lot from that game and it only partly delivered as it wasn't very optimized yet and it had it's fair share of issues and bugs. It was a bit of a pilot project, PC2 however is a different beast all together and if people actually take the effort to set aside their prejudices and play it, they will realize that all the slander and hate on the interwebz is unjustified.

I've convinced a lot of my skeptical buddies to pick it up and give it a go, and pretty much all of them were pleasantly surprised about how much the series improved from the first game.

Just keep on doing what you're doing, if you continue along the lines of PC2 up and onward for PC3 that army of haters will grow smaller by the day, I'm sure of it.
And thanks again for being communicative and present with your community, that is really appreciated!

missy455
30-11-2017, 07:47
@Ian Bell
I've actually have seen some positive posts from both sides regarding the effort made with the latest patch (including myself). I must admit, it was looking like a witch hunt, (Steam, etc.) especially during the waiting period for this latest patch....I think that the worry for most was that the game was going to be set aside and work would be invested into your next title (like Codemasters F1 series) That said, I think your game is going to start seeing a "shift" in the review sections and forum posts on other sites. I most certainly hope so, because then it would make the hard work your team has recently endured in vain, and might even hamper future decisions that don't favor this genre. I would like to congratulate you guys for the continued work and hope it continues as it is turning out to be something special. I believe this "witch hunt" is turning around as we speak.

*Could it be possible that this genre has reached it's peak? Any thought? There's going to be a day (coming soon) where people won't even know what it is like to actually "pilot" a vehicle, so there most certainly will be a market for these games no?

Francisnf
30-11-2017, 07:53
Its really quite sad some of the info in this thread, i really can understand the pain it must put the guys through who make this fantastic series. Its just relentless, i see on Twitter, competitions just getting shot down with negative comments, the Steam reviews are ridiculous, the people putting up negative reviews are just clearly out to cause trouble and upset.

I've been playing racing / car games since the ZX spectrum days and i've enjoyed the Project Cars series more than any other series in all my computing life. I hope you guys keep building and keep the chin up, hard work will win through and dont listen to the people shouting you down, they are just bitter people.

mister dog
30-11-2017, 07:56
*Could it be possible that this genre has reached it's peak? Any thought?
You should see my wishlist! :)

Mark Race
30-11-2017, 08:07
I see this thread got busy overnight so I'll repeat a little of my post in support of the SMS team. Project CARS 2 is a superb game, especially in VR and it is getting better all the time. I had my doubts after PCARS1, especially on consiole, but my expectations have been completely exceeded with PCARS2. The Xbox One X leap in performance and graphics is, even at this early stage, remarkable. I'm not suggesting PCARS2 is perfect but blimey it is exciting and for me close enough to the real tracks and cars I have experienced.

Project CARS 2 ought to be winning awards for the Oculus VR alone, nothing else comes close to the feel of being inside a race car at night with the rain pinging off the roof and spray on the screen making my eyes widen as I look for braking points in the gloom. The way the track and other car lighting moves realistically around the cockpit still grabs my attention everytime, it is just so real. As for longer Le Mans races with a day night cycle, they are the closest I'm ever likely to get and make this game truly stand out from any of the other similar games around.

It sounds to me like the negative posts get repeated a lot so maybe those of us enjoying the game need to repeat our positive thoughts about the game more often too. Basic human psychology and the amygdala in the emotional centre of brain means bad news tends to have more impact - we are a survival biased creature, we look for threats to avoid them and as a result they weigh heavily on us. I can imagine all the criticism toward the team is cortisol raising for them. I know Ian is interested in these human factors and if I was him I'd have the positive reviews made into 50ft posters for the office and the positive comments on repeat ticker screens - especially after sifting through and responding to criticisms. Keep looking at the positive this is a game on the up and getting better.

Lakey
30-11-2017, 08:09
Reasonable people, armed with the same information, invariably arrive at the same conclusion. In this case not everyone is reasonable, and not everyone has the same information. I have no doubt that great work has been done at SMS, great work continues to be done to bring PC2 up to everyone’s expectation, and given that tireless work, emotions start to run high.

Balance that against a seemingly unsympathetic user, who has waited and waited for something that built on the foundation of PC1, eagerly watched for press releases and previews, whipped themselves into a frenzy of anticipation, only to be greeted with a game, that in their world wasn’t perfect.

Now factor in the odd journalist or blogger, their motives for a story are build around a tag that lures someone to read.

Forums are a tool to comment, praise and vent, corporate responses to those comments require as much care as press releases in many senses, a sad sign of our times. For my part, I have struggled with PC2, fought my way through that, enjoyed the challenge and found some enjoyable setups. My barometer for success is that I return to PC2 over and above all other other racing titles I own, others barometers will be totally different.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 08:15
Why are people treating all of this so seriously? There's so many threads with people being angry and frustrated. Are all of these escalating posts made by kids with nothing better to do until their mom calls them to dinner? Or are these actually grown-ups with families, jobs and responsibilities?

This is a game, is it not? Merely a minor addition to one's real life? And yes, it cost you somewhere between 50 and 100 dollars to buy, but I'm assuming you didn't spend the last portion of your money to do so? If you're on the verge of having an existential crisis over a game, please take a step back and get some perspective; things could be a lot worse than your favorite toy not functioning entirely like you want it to.

Cladandadum
30-11-2017, 08:27
Unfortunately, this is a sad enditement of the modern world. Technology is great but that doesn't mean that some people are necessarily sophisticated enough to use it responsibly. As discussed before, it's easy for some people to engage in maladaptive behaviour when they don't see the damage they are causing first hand. It's easy to throw objects from afar and get caught up in the excitement of being destructive. Pathetic really.

The president of the US is a great example of the above.

For SMS, please hang in there. True innovation can be a lonely path but the community on this forum, as well as so many others, are with you.

Miker
30-11-2017, 08:28
Project cars baiting has now become a sport in its own right....

missy455
30-11-2017, 08:35
@mister dog
"You should see my wishlist! "

lol, well I was reflecting on the progression of "sim racing" when writing that....Like back in 2013 there seemed to be a surge in these games (Pcars, Automobilista, Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, RaceRoom Experience) and so it was like Xmas and what I think we are seeing now is a "leveling off" of sorts in player base.

Yes, I have an extensive "wishlist" myself lol.

* I would also like to say that whoever (all aspects) was in charge of the 69' Camaro Z/28 should be given free beer for the next year because it sounds and drives fantastic!

Keena
30-11-2017, 08:38
@Ian Bell
I've actually have seen some positive posts from both sides regarding the effort made with the latest patch (including myself). I must admit, it was looking like a witch hunt, (Steam, etc.) especially during the waiting period for this latest patch....I think that the worry for most was that the game was going to be set aside and work would be invested into your next title (like Codemasters F1 series) That said, I think your game is going to start seeing a "shift" in the review sections and forum posts on other sites. I most certainly hope so, because then it would make the hard work your team has recently endured in vain, and might even hamper future decisions that don't favor this genre. I would like to congratulate you guys for the continued work and hope it continues as it is turning out to be something special. I believe this "witch hunt" is turning around as we speak.

*Could it be possible that this genre has reached it's peak? Any thought? There's going to be a day (coming soon) where people won't even know what it is like to actually "pilot" a vehicle, so there most certainly will be a market for these games no?

My view is that this market is seeing a new dawn, and I'm personally quite excited by the direction it might take. I think SMS are to a certain extent pioneers in this, and there are multiple components to be excited about- hardware, physics, synergy between motorsports teams and game developers etc etc
I think Ian Bell has seen an opportunity and is pushing things in exactly the right direction.

BaSsMaNLoFtY
30-11-2017, 09:03
I just want to say that I have followed SMS development if PCars since it's first announcement on its core development process using WMD. I choose to not comment very often, but I feel that in this circumstance I just wanted to put myself forward.

I'm astonished that this is the way that people choose to react for a product which is developed by human beings, using flawed tech, in a non perfect world with a (relatively) tight budget compared to its peers. I can only assume a lot of what we see are children and keyboard warriors, who's favourite past time is to spread anger and hate across the internet.

I'm as inpatient as anyone else for patches and improvements but it gets to a point where it is all fairly superfluous as the core game is so strong.

The only way to attempt to remove this would be to provide the game in a service format which constantly develops in a beta state, as to not 'falsely coax' people into buying what they expect to be a perfect true to life simulator with no bugs. But, then I'm sure there are people out there that will complain regardless of how much you stress the product is a work in progress.

Take all of what I say with a pinch of salt as I bought a full deluxe edition and have never bought a special edition of anything. I guess I'm seen as a promoter because in I invested so much in the product, but looking at the SMS track record of fixes, I can only expect further improvments on what is already a product outclassing its rivals.

@Ian, I have read your posts over the last few days and I am gutted for you and your team receiving such atrocius behaviour. If it is of little consolation, I would like to just say thank you and your team for the all hard work involved creating such a product. I won't bore people, but I will say you have created easily the most well rounded simulator ever. If I can ever offer my assistance with your social media space, then I am more than happy to do so.

missy455
30-11-2017, 09:19
The only way to attempt to remove this would be to provide the game in a service format which constantly develops in a beta state, as to not 'falsely coax' people into buying what they expect to be a perfect true to life simulator with no bugs.
Not true...Just ask Stefano Casillo

"But, then I'm sure there are people out there that will complain regardless of how much you stress the product is a work in progress."
^This is true though

Jonyvf
30-11-2017, 09:20
We must realize that the game is not immune to criticism. We must criticize the game where we think it is not well, but we must do it in a positive and suggestive critic and not in an odious criticism.
This is the difference that separates the people who want that the game is on the right track and others who criticize the slightest mistake they can find and fill topics with criticism behind criticism.
I understand the frustration of people because the game did not go as it should, expectations were too high and also I stayed one little frustrated with the game.
But I support SMS at one hundred percent because I feel the passion they have with the game and when it works with passion the good things come to the top.
This game has everything to stay in history and after optimized will be sure. But for this is necessary to continue with the corrections that the game needs.
I know that the game has a lot of content and will have more, but more important than the content is the correction of what can not be working well.
Ian Bell just ask for an optimized game because for me the DCLs are in the background. Keep up the good work

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 09:27
Perhaps we as "enthusiastic" should start a campaign on how good the game is. :-)

Sankyo
30-11-2017, 09:29
Perhaps we as "enthusiastic" should start a campaign on how good the game is. :-)
Fight fire with fire on the internet. Sounds like a plan, since staying reasonable apparently doesn't work...

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 09:30
Fight fire with fire on the internet. Sounds like a plan, since staying reasonable apparently doesn't work...

exactly my thoughts.:rolleyes:

mister dog
30-11-2017, 09:30
Shills! :p

Cladandadum
30-11-2017, 09:31
Perhaps we as "enthusiastic" should start a campaign on how good the game is. :-)

You have a 'dangerous' signature highlighted in red:D

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 09:34
You have a 'dangerous' signature highlighted in red:D

actually it is orange but yeah you're right. I love living on the edge.. :eagerness:

Cladandadum
30-11-2017, 09:36
Good choice. Red would be too inflammatory. Now I need to get my eyes tested.....

Sankyo
30-11-2017, 09:37
Nothing wrong with red text in signatures... :rolleyes:

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 09:40
Perhaps we as "enthusiastic" should start a campaign on how good the game is. :-)

I've been actively refraining from posting in negative threads for some time now, but this is a great idea. From now on I'll be adding weight in the counterbalance.

Thanks for the many awesome race-fueled nights I've had since May 2015, guys! I for one am having a blast!

fydo
30-11-2017, 09:44
I am also having fun since the game came out. yes I have seen failures but I recognize that it is a game. nothing else. People are asking for realism, there will come a time when someone will say that in summer there must be mosquitoes and these must be stamped with the crystal moon. The 5 legs are looking for the cat.

Sankyo
30-11-2017, 09:48
Fight fire with fire on the internet. Sounds like a plan, since staying reasonable apparently doesn't work...


I've been actively refraining from posting in negative threads for some time now, but this is a great idea. From now on I'll be adding weight in the counterbalance.

Actually I'm not really a fan of the idea since it will just suck the pCARS community in this stupid internet war, but I don't see any other real option. But maybe if we'd manage to stay with facts and not get to their level of vitriol, lies and name-calling, it may work.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 10:09
No worries. With taking part and "adding weight in the counterbalance" I mean being constructive and pointing out positives in those destructive meta-threads, not being an exuberant fanboy.

missy455
30-11-2017, 10:14
@Ian Bell
I've actually have seen some positive posts from both sides regarding the effort made with the latest patch (including myself). I must admit, it was looking like a witch hunt, (Steam, etc.) especially during the waiting period for this latest patch....I think that the worry for most was that the game was going to be set aside and work would be invested into your next title (like Codemasters F1 series) That said, I think your game is going to start seeing a "shift" in the review sections and forum posts on other sites. I most certainly hope so, because then it would make the hard work your team has recently endured in vain, and might even hamper future decisions that don't favor this genre. I would like to congratulate you guys for the continued work and hope it continues as it is turning out to be something special. I believe this "witch hunt" is turning around as we speak.

Ummm, I guess I posted this a bit too early....I just visited RD again and although it started to look like the tables were turning, there are a few who are still on the attack regarding PC2. It looks like the big beefs are with the AI, Replays, Clutch....
I just played the game yesterday on anothers system, and I can say that I enjoyed the time I had, and will certainly say that the game is very playable and I didn't see anything "game breaking"....In fact, it actually changed my stance on whether or not I was going to add it to my library (for what it's worth)

justonce68
30-11-2017, 10:16
I tend to glaze over and move on to a different thread, when i see the hate and vitriol on these forum, its generally the same people, having a dig on an issue they clamp onto like a parasite.
For me personally, I'm loving the game and its a thing of beauty.

Chin Up Ian, and remember....."You can't educate pork"

John Hargreaves
30-11-2017, 10:30
I'm sad to see Ian and SMS having doubts about what they do, but I can completely understand it in the circumstances. It is so irritating seeing all the hate posts that have no basis in fact.

I was reading the PC2 reviews on Steam the other day, usual shitty stuff, and I posted my own just suggesting that people make up their own mind now there is a demo. It got one comment: 'Ian Bell fake account'. This is who we are dealing with.

SMS guys, you must not stop, you must not give up, the majority are with you. Do not doubt yourselves and do not roll over due to a small but dedicated band of sad pasty faced losers in sweaty bedrooms.

cluck
30-11-2017, 10:39
From a personal standpoint, what frustrates me enormously is that a lot of people are blind to the faults/limitations/restrictions in some other games, as if Project CARS is the only one that has to be "perfect" on release. Assetto Corsa, Race Factor 2, iRacing, these games have all had years and years to get to where they are now, I doubt any single one of them was as polished on release as, say, Project CARS 2 was.

My second biggest gripe is that word used a few posts back. "Shill". It's almost as if it's a crime to like something these days, as it nobody is allowed to like something without having some kind of vested interest.

For me, I do what I always do. I play the games I want to play and I don't play the ones I don't enjoy. Yes, I'll make casual jokes - amongst friends - poking fun at some other games but it's always done with a wink. I don't care what other people play, I don't care that they get more enjoyment out of A N Other Sim, I only care about the fun I am having and, provided those around me in my league are having as much fun, that is more than enough for me. Life really is too short to go around telling other people that their choice of game is wrong. It's like me trying to convince my parents (both in the 70s) that they should listen to Metallica :rolleyes:

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 10:40
[...] the majority are with you [...]

And I assume the majority pleased with the game is rightfully too busy racing to be vocal here.

morpwr
30-11-2017, 10:43
And I assume the majority pleased with the game is rightfully too busy racing to be vocal here.

Too busy racing at night in the rain/thunderstorm at Brands Hatch.:cool:

Christiaan van Beilen
30-11-2017, 10:56
I'm sad to see Ian and SMS having doubts about what they do, but I can completely understand it in the circumstances. It is so irritating seeing all the hate posts that have no basis in fact.

I was reading the PC2 reviews on Steam the other day, usual shitty stuff, and I posted my own just suggesting that people make up their own mind now there is a demo. It got one comment: 'Ian Bell fake account'. This is who we are dealing with.

SMS guys, you must not stop, you must not give up, the majority are with you. Do not doubt yourselves and do not roll over due to a small but dedicated band of sad pasty faced losers in sweaty bedrooms.

I just had a look at the guy. He's got 23 hours of AC wheel time, he's got 5.8 hours of pC2 wheel time but has 991 hours of GTA5 play time. Which makes me suspect two things... or he's just your typical type of GTA fanboy style troll that likes to spoil it for others (sorry for generalizing, but if I ever see GTA Online gameplay on youtube... not really the most pleasant bunch to say the least). Either that or he's just a hired goon for destructive purposes by a competitor to try and kill Project CARS before it takes over the world.

That said... I can't take a guy with not even 1.5 days worth of wheel time in any racing game serious, I just can't. Still... I'm sure that statements from these goons end up hurting sales because hardly anyone delves deeper into who the people are that make these reviews on Steam. In fact most might not even look past the average rating itself, and if it says 'mixed' people will end up waiting till maybe the Christmas sales and hope to buy it for cheap. Simply because a mixed rating will instill doubt in people.

Rober
30-11-2017, 11:35
From a personal standpoint, what frustrates me enormously is that a lot of people are blind to the faults/limitations/restrictions in some other games, as if Project CARS is the only one that has to be "perfect" on release. Assetto Corsa, Race Factor 2, iRacing, these games have all had years and years to get to where they are now, I doubt any single one of them was as polished on release as, say, Project CARS 2 was.

My second biggest gripe is that word used a few posts back. "Shill". It's almost as if it's a crime to like something these days, as it nobody is allowed to like something without having some kind of vested interest.

For me, I do what I always do. I play the games I want to play and I don't play the ones I don't enjoy. Yes, I'll make casual jokes - amongst friends - poking fun at some other games but it's always done with a wink. I don't care what other people play, I don't care that they get more enjoyment out of A N Other Sim, I only care about the fun I am having and, provided those around me in my league are having as much fun, that is more than enough for me. Life really is too short to go around telling other people that their choice of game is wrong. It's like me trying to convince my parents (both in the 70s) that they should listen to Metallica :rolleyes:

Funny you bring Metallica to the table, the most loved/hated band in the world. Whatever they do or don't is wrong :indecisiveness: You should read their forum :stupid:

Haters gonna hate, sadly.

Edit for analogy: Need for Speed is SMS's Napster

John Hargreaves
30-11-2017, 11:59
I'm going to go and upvote the honest reviews on Steam

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 12:15
so the topic is "people are bad persons" ? nothing strange for me. I'm cynical, a lot, but it's strange the team is surprised by the behavior of people, because from my point of view is how the world of today works.

I do not like it, I do not justify it, but it works in this way and it is good to be prepared if you are so exposed.

let's summarize what happened to the average player (pc syde) in the early days:

- you open the game and you see after 20 seconds there are bugs visible even for a blind people. they can be stupid and do not spoil the gaming experience, but I would say it's the worst possible presentation. has anyone ever gone to an elegant wedding with the swimsuit?

-you've done a marketing campaign based only on joypad, gtsport and forza motorsport. I think it's totally normal that the "super pro simracers" feel obliged to say that the game is a simcade and that assetto corsa is the only real simulator out there (and I'm Italian, so the thing for me is multiplied)

- you are in a league: the servers are totally weird to configure, a graphical interface is added that does not work, you have to do continuous workarounds, then you enter the server and you have to restart to put out AI loaded by itself, then you play and there are weather and track conditions Different between people. simply, the legue can't use pcars 2 for racing. stop.

-you start an offline race: the ai isn't able to do a race start. you stop to play offline.

- you try to do hotlaps and the cars has strange behaviors, charge random setups, FFB isn't still so good, there is no explanation on the behavior of the tires (the best tires in all sims, no one understands it and you do not explain in game: so the people say the physics is bad.) you stop making hotlap.

what remain to do? looking menus or waiting for patches.

I hope there has been a very precise marketing strategy behind the release of a game in this way that I do not understand. it's not arrogance, I'm not at the head of a big company, I did not have this capability in my life, so it's normal that I can not understand certain things.

but from my point of view, a customer, if you had relesed a rock solid game as it will may be at patch 5 (I hope), with less things but all well done, would have been better. after that a free dlc with snow and a dlc with rallycross. both imho are wasted resources to have a rock solid game at the release.

there is also to be self-critical. Ian i saw you write that 53 points of the 63 reddits list are required features. false. 3-4 things are stupid, the rest are bugs, real, present in the game, more or less important. a lot of time your answers are "but we have this, those, others don't and etc ". ok "we have snow, rallycross and livetrack", but criticisms are about things do not work while they should.

i undertand you are proud of your product, but you are (the team) still not accurate in doing things at the level that part of the audience requires.

Honestly, however, I think you absolutely do not care about this part of the public because it is the minority and does not generate "money". and it is right, but part of these people are those who have these idiotic attitudes we are speaking about.


ps: the speech is complex and a bit above my standards with English. I hope it's clear that my attempt is only to explain my point of view
pps: the team reaction about patching things had became superlative. this is good. very good.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 12:18
[...] in the early days [...]

However, things have improved since. I for one have no issues left which keep me from thoroughly enjoying the game. Do you?

lapje
30-11-2017, 12:20
I am playing this game for almost 200 hours now (on PC). I do not pretend to be a good sim driver and i play for the fun (offline/online). Before the release I watched a lot of video's on YouTube. All those videos looked very promising. So I bought the Deluxe version of the game. In many aspects I do like the game and will support it. But the thing I can't understand is why the game is released with cars piling up in the first corner. Hit me from behind at the start of the race also when I have a normal/good start. I mean... they promised me a racing sim, may I expect this should work better? I think I may. Something like a flight simulator where your plane does crash even when keep it level. I know, like there are haters to SMS and developers, there are also haters to someone who writes something bad about the game. So I hoped after the latest patch this quite obvious problem would be solved. But it seems it's not. Once again I do like the game and it's potential and many other bugs may be fixed. It has a lot of content, live track etc. But this AI behavior does frustrate me because you're doing a good qualify but it is ruined at the start or in the first corner. Now people will say: during the race it will be better. Yes, it is. But why do I need to restart the race multiple times because of the AI behavior in a racing sim? I did not buy GTA.

Keep up the job SMS and make it the best simulator.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 12:24
@lapje: I'll admit it's strange, but I can honestly say I don't have any issues with AI pile-ups in the first corner of a race. A little love-tap here and there does happen, just like in real life (Super Trofeo finals at Imola, anyone? :D). I race AI at around 100% difficulty and around 85% aggression.

MikoSkye
30-11-2017, 12:25
I just felt I had to respond to this thread.

My view of people en-masse is not a positive one - I don't engage in any community stuff either online or in the real world anymore because the bad pennies of humanity cause me distress. It is a shame as there are some decent people out there who just want to have fun, to enjoy their hobby, to get through a little bit of the day without hostility and aggression.

So to see a thread like this where the SMS team tell of being threatened, of feeling so maligned that the joy of creating has become secondary almost....well, it breaks my heart. I just had to respond in some way!

I LOVE Project Cars 2!!

I cant drive it, I am woefully bad, like really bad, and I do curse at the screen more often than not - but not because of the game...the game is beyond awesome. No fan boy here, no misguided loyalty, just someone who enjoys gaming and racing and can see when a bug is a bug and when it is game breaking. For me, no such game breaking or enjoyment breaking bugs in this title. Just lots and lots of content to explore, revel in and well, if I can ever get on top of the new tyre handling model, some rather good ole fashioned excitement at getting better each and every lap!!

Is it perfect, gosh no, but what is!!!! Is it playable, GOD YES!! So to see people saying that it is broken, a mess and wot not, well, it is instantly recognisable as inflated ego of an individual who believes the world revolves around them - maybe a bit of a victim complex in there for good measure. They have a voice online one that in real life would result in sad pity from me, with a little desire to listen to them ever again. They populate online more than any other walk of life!!

Time for more balance to that furious equation.

To the whole team at SMS - keep on creating, because beyond the pathetic noise of these haters, you have a base of people who appreciate your work and efforts. You give this guy, at least, a bit of escape from the real world (off line of course!!) and I thank you for that.

I am almost tempted to just post a positive comment to every single negative comment going forward - play them at their own game - ahhh dreams of fairness and balance in humans...oh well, back to the Acura at Imola.

IceShaft
30-11-2017, 12:28
@DreamsKnight

Everything you're saying, which I do not agree at all, does not justify personal attacks, threats, s***storms, systematic manipulation of ratings on facebook/steam, poisoning every discussion even if it's about something totally different.
This is not freedom of speech, this is mental illness or targeted attack strategy to destroy a competitor. It's simple as that.

pkcraistlin
30-11-2017, 12:42
gamers are a bunch of entitled man-children; most of whom should be summarily ignored. the access they have to developers today compared to what we had in the 80s or 90s is ridiculous, and too many just abuse that privilege. if you don't like a game, go play something else ffs. don't create 4 or 5 different forum accounts just to post negative shit. grow up, it's embarrassing.

Keena
30-11-2017, 12:47
I've put a nice review on Steam under my usual Dangledonk tag. A little bit of antidote to the poison. I have to laugh- people giving reviews with a couple of hours in game. It takes me that long to do some early get the feel laps..

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 12:57
@DreamsKnight

Everything you're saying, which I do not agree at all, does not justify personal attacks, threats, s***storms, systematic manipulation of ratings on facebook/steam, poisoning every discussion even if it's about something totally different.
This is not freedom of speech, this is mental illness or targeted attack strategy to destroy a competitor. It's simple as that.

i agree. i don't justify. second line of my post. but world works in this way. this is the second time they left their side uncovered for very easy criticisms to do. so lessons not learned (or they don't care for a precise business strategy). in addition to the ian style that always tends to emphasize other aspects than to understand critiques amplify the situation. "we have weather and live tracks" ok, but they don't works good as they should.

you can't disagree, but the game has a lot of different way to use it and everyone has different senbsibilit. for example: to remember every session to activate the rearmirror for me is game breaking and this is a stupid and macroscopic bug which broke the patience, especially if you race in a legue with real people.



However, things have improved since. I for one have no issues left which keep me from thoroughly enjoying the game. Do you?

improved, but the side was uncovered. not improved as much i'd like, but i wait and read. i don't go on instagram to post bad things.

MaximusN
30-11-2017, 12:58
@DreamsKnight

Everything you're saying, which I do not agree at all, does not justify personal attacks, threats, s***storms, systematic manipulation of ratings on facebook/steam, poisoning every discussion even if it's about something totally different.
This is not freedom of speech, this is mental illness or targeted attack strategy to destroy a competitor. It's simple as that.

Which basically sums up gamers-ethos in general and simracers-ethos in specific. :( It's kind of sad to be part of such a community and makes you feel rather helpless, because (good) discussions get derailed by the atmosphere created by people who feel entitled. And sometimes it's only the way people say something that's just not constructive and in fact counter-productive.

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 13:09
And sometimes it's only the way people say something that's just not constructive and in fact counter-productive.

both sides.

"we did the best sim out there", has become a famous phrase in a non-positive way and there is a reason.


edit: and i repeat, this could be a winning strategy for marketing which i don't understand from my little position of customer.

Keena
30-11-2017, 13:12
both sides.

"we did the best sim out there", has become a famous phrase in a non-positive way and there is a reason.

I think it's pretty damn good so you don't speak for me :)

David Wright
30-11-2017, 13:13
I think some of hatred from the PC community dates back to NFS Shift. The pre-launch publicity gave the impression Shift was going to be "a sim". Now of course the definition of "a sim" varies from person to person - some have a very narrow concept of what qualifies as "a sim". Indeed some feel if it has good graphics and a console version it can't possibly be "a sim".

The truth is Shift had many sim-like elements. It had a sophisticated physics engine. It was the first NFS title I'd driven that felt like you were driving a car and indeed as one reviewer said, if you drove it like a sim it felt like a sim. It was only if you started driving your MC12 GT1 at 45 degrees tail out and found you didn't spin out that the sim-like qualities vanished. My experience of the AI wasn't good and of course there was no race weekend, no qualifying, no tyre wear - in this respect it was of course far from a traditional sim.

Although Shift was by far the best NFS title I've tried, and the most sim-like NFS title for many years, perhaps ever - I missed out on NFS Porsche - it seems some felt they had been misled by SMS claims that it was a sim. And this entitled them to begin the hate campaign that has continued ever since.

The other factor I'd suggest is fear. As a small green person once said "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate." Project Cars is seen as a threat to many established favourite titles. Threats make people afraid. People attack what they perceive as a threat.

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 13:14
for example: to remember every session to activate the rearmirror for me is game breaking

That's not game breaking by any means. You just press the "game fixing" button that activates your rear view mirror.

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 13:17
I think it's pretty damn good so you don't speak for me :)

I think it's pretty good that everyone speaks for himself, remaining respectful. :D

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 13:19
That's not game breaking by any means. You just press the "game fixing" button that activates your rear view mirror.

no man. it reset each session (before patch, at the moment i didn't checked). 20 person in my legue same problem.

and honestly that is not the focus of my point.

Keena
30-11-2017, 13:19
I think it's pretty good that everyone speaks for himself, remaining respectful. :D

You speak using generalisations. Perhaps leaving yourself open to being accused of speaking for more than just 'himself' ;)

MaximusN
30-11-2017, 13:19
I think some of hatred from the PC community dates back to NFS Shift. The pre-launch publicity gave the impression Shift was going to be "a sim". Now of course the definition of "a sim" varies from person to person - some have a very narrow concept of what qualifies as "a sim". Indeed some feel if it has good graphics and a console version it can't possibly be "a sim".

Two letters: EA. They made ISI look bad too(not letting them work on patches which they released anyway without EA consent).

And I can't believe we're still talking about an 8 year old title directed(incl. artistic choices) by an other(evil) publisher by a group of people that has changed a lot by then.

Let it go,

Let it go,

...okay I'll stop here ;)

Zenzic
30-11-2017, 13:19
You speak using generalisations. Perhaps leaving yourself open ;)

And your sides unprotected. :D

Sankyo
30-11-2017, 13:24
I think some of hatred from the PC community dates back to NFS Shift. The pre-launch publicity gave the impression Shift was going to be "a sim". Now of course the definition of "a sim" varies from person to person - some have a very narrow concept of what qualifies as "a sim". Indeed some feel if it has good graphics and a console version it can't possibly be "a sim".

The truth is Shift had many sim-like elements. It had a sophisticated physics engine. It was the first NFS title I'd driven that felt like you were driving a car and indeed as one reviewer said, if you drove it like a sim it felt like a sim. It was only if you started driving your MC12 GT1 at 45 degrees tail out and found you didn't spin out that the sim-like qualities vanished. My experience of the AI wasn't good and of course there was no race weekend, no qualifying, no tyre wear - in this respect it was of course far from a traditional sim.

Although Shift was by far the best NFS title I've tried, and the most sim-like NFS title for many years, perhaps ever - I missed out on NFS Porsche - it seems some felt they had been misled by SMS claims that it was a sim. And this entitled them to begin the hate campaign that has continued ever since.

The other factor I'd suggest is fear. As a small green person once said "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate." Project Cars is seen as a threat to many established favourite titles. Threats make people afraid. People attack what they perceive as a threat.
IMO there's truth in both suggested reasons. For sure the hate of SMS itself isn't just because of pCARS, it dates back much further (when pC1/WMD was announced to get started the haters already assembled). Funny though that selective memory is very apparent within the hater community, as everyone seems all too willing to forget that basically the same people that made Shift 1/2 and pC1/2 also made GTR1/2 and GT Legends.

The second one is very apparent in the rabid defending of one's favourite sim on other forums.

MaximusN
30-11-2017, 13:26
And to be honest I'm quite done with these negative, disruptive people everywhere... I'm glad they're not at arms lenght :D :D

MaximusN
30-11-2017, 13:27
Funny though that selective memory is very apparent within the hater community, as everyone seems all too willing to forget that basically the same people that made Shift 1/2 and pC1/2 also made GTR1/2 and GT Legends.

Yeah, that's the icing on the cake :S

ermo
30-11-2017, 13:45
@Ian:


On trolling and venting:

1./ Studies have shown (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists) that internet trolls often score high on the malignant tetrad (narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic and sadistic). The key to defeating them is realizing that they get a kick out of demeaning, hurting and in general controlling and fostering negative feelings in their victims. Once you are aware of this, it is possible to deal with them accordingly (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psych-unseen/201609/no-comment-3-rules-dealing-internet-trolls).

2./ Studies have shown that when people vent or complain about something, it activates a reward center in the brain in the short term (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-the-rage/201408/three-facts-about-venting-online) (though the long term benefits are paradoxically quite toxic, since anger spreads faster than other emotions). It's apparently a basic mechanism and explains why some people tend to forget that there are real people on the receiving end.

So there are the "everyday sadists" (not a scientific term, but gets the point across) and "normal people" (again, not a scientific term) looking for release for their pent up frustrations and a nice kick of endorphines for their effort.



A well-intended, hopefully constructive suggestion for improvement:

Now, since you said you have nothing against constructive criticism, I will offer this single suggestion that IMHO has the ability to not only improve the pC2 customer experience by following the principle of least surprise, but also to make certain things MUCH easier for your developers:

As I recall, one of the major goals during the pre-production of pC2 was to ensure better debug-ability.

It has been my experience that I can't always trust pC2 to save/load settings (i.e. 'game state') and initialise said settings correctly on session start and even during sessions.

This results in confusion and wrong assumptions about e.g. what aids are in effect and whether I'm using the setup that I think I'm using, possibly leading to wrong conclusions being drawn.

To get to the bottom of this apparent 'weak point' in certain areas of the MADNESSS engine code base, my suggestion would be that you consider allocating a significant chunk of resources into the design and implementation of an automation/scripting functionality that allows your developers to *exhaustively* capture/play back, introspect and verify that the code responsible for saving/loading/initialising game state is 100% rock solid and matches the settings shown in the UI.

I'm basically suggesting that you be able simulate/automate and introspect an entire gameplay session from start to finish, including: game startup + load from save game + settings initialisation + settings changes + (session start + pause + settings changes + session continue + session restart + pause + setting changes + session finish) + new session start + (...) + checking the save game state matches the captured in-game state on each game state change (rinse and repeat ad nauseam).

In this particular case, the driving isn't really that important (so you'd have to teach the AI to drive the player HD vehicle, since a portion of the player related options affect the HD vehicle only), but the effects (or lack thereof) of setting changes are what matter, not the driving experience per se.

The benefit of doing this would be that you would be able to effectively eliminate the class of bugs that lead to complaints about setups and cars not behaving as expected AND you'd be able to do automated regression testing when implementing a new option/changing the implementation of an existing option, hence making the combinatorial explosion of all the various game options more manageable.

As an added benefit, this will also allow the creation of 'benchmark scenarios' where you can set up various session configurations and play them back while capturing physics tick rate, frame times etc. Quite the boon for your optimisation efforts, wouldn't you say?

The rest (i.e. bug-fixing and refinements to already in-scope design specs and the code implementing said specs) is just gravy to me.



Finishing remarks:

In closing, I would have you know that pC2 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. If I've had a rough day, 10-20 minutes of driving with pC2 will magically cure it. It's just that good.


Thank you for your time and may you and yours have an excellent day. :)

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 13:48
You speak using generalisations. Perhaps leaving yourself open to being accused of speaking for more than just 'himself' ;)

sorry, i don't understand your point. honestly your answer (the first) is also not related to the post quoted. please explain me, be patient :D

Keena
30-11-2017, 13:54
sorry, i don't understand your point. honestly your answer (the first) is also not related to the post quoted. please explain me, be patient :D

I'll do my best..
You say.. "we did the best sim out there", has become a famous phrase in a non-positive way and there is a reason"
My point about not speaking for me is directed at your choice of phrase "a famous phrase". Famous to whom? Not me, Ive never heard it before. Hence my comment that you don't speak for me.

But who cares- I'm sure we both have better things to do than waste time on such a silly conversation.

LMGTP
30-11-2017, 14:04
So sad to see this game receiving so much hate. Yes it has its issues what game does not??

How low can people be to be trolling and even threatenting Sms staff with legal and death threats.

Once again this just shows the fanaticism that is rife among the videogame industry. If no body has any constructive things to say why bother commenting.

biggbaddwolf
30-11-2017, 14:22
I love all racing games-PC2-GT Series-Assetto Corsa. I am not going to pit one against the other, or pick a favorite, because picking a favorite is impossible, but how about we all get off the forums, and stop worrying about "witch hunts" and play these wonderful games these folks have provided :)

Konan
30-11-2017, 14:27
I am not going to pit one against the other,

...pun intended?

amazed
30-11-2017, 14:29
Funny you bring Metallica to the table, the most loved/hated band in the world. Whatever they do or don't is wrong :indecisiveness: You should read their forum :stupid:

Haters gonna hate, sadly.

Edit for analogy: Need for Speed is SMS's Napster

Can't wait to be in an old people's home listening to Metallica.....

:listening_headphone

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 14:37
Well lets us make this forum one big happy event. A place for Pcars lovers. :D there are engough gamers with the same love for Pcars as I have.

Happy racing...

DreamsKnight
30-11-2017, 14:38
I'll do my best..
You say.. "we did the best sim out there", has become a famous phrase in a non-positive way and there is a reason"
My point about not speaking for me is directed at your choice of phrase "a famous phrase". Famous to whom? Not me, Ive never heard it before. Hence my comment that you don't speak for me.

But who cares- I'm sure we both have better things to do than waste time on such a silly conversation.

i don't know a lot of vip, but they remain vip. ;)

i will not post screenshoot of the (internet) world outside here. i'm working. :D

thank you. :)

Konan
30-11-2017, 14:40
Well lets us make this forum one big happy event. A place for Pcars lovers. :D there are engough gamers with the same love for Pcars as I have.

Happy racing...

Why stop there?
Let's go for world peace while we're at it...:cool:

Olijke Poffer
30-11-2017, 14:42
Why stop there?
Let's go for world peace while we're at it...:cool:

Haha ok, lets make it big... :welcoming:

gazzalino
30-11-2017, 15:09
What's worse is my son is running the social media side... I'm really considering some drastic measures to ensure he and the others in the team aren't constantly subjected to the threats and hate they're getting everywhere. Instagram is hellish in terms of replies. Facebook, we had to turn off ratings as it was all the lowest possible with a sentence of hate thrown in. The amount of 0 out of 10 'user reviews' this mid 80's rated game gets on Metacritic is frightening. We're having to turn off comments on Youtube videos... The more work we do to improve the game the lower the reviews on Steam, dropping to 'mixed' recently.

We're really at a loss TBH. I don't know of another team that works so hard to please, and delivers so much good, receive so much hate for it...

Ian, I am so impressed with the amount of interaction that you guys have with the community .... it's obvious for all to see that you really care about your customers and are striving to improve an already superb game at every opportunity. We are behind you 100%.

HOWEVER, a line has been crossed when you, your team or your family start to receive personal abuse and threats. For what it's worth, if it were me, I would post a clearly worded parting statement on instagram, or wherever, and immediately stop reading and interacting with those sites/forums (and report the threats in question to the authorities). I would instead only post on sites such as this forum where you and the other moderators can properly police language and comments and ban the abusers.

I am new to sim racing and am loving the game on PS4 Pro and it is ridiculous that some individuals out there with clearly spiteful agendas should be able to freely abuse you and your family in this way.

Andrew_WOT
30-11-2017, 15:19
Well lets us make this forum one big happy event. A place for Pcars lovers. :D there are engough gamers with the same love for Pcars as I have.

Happy racing...

Happy place and happy racing, hell yeah.

https://media.giphy.com/media/PmdAdBwlJFQbu/giphy.gif





https://i0.wp.com/38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma8cleJw2j1r015l2o4_500.gif

Scott Coffey
30-11-2017, 15:19
It's very frustrating for our media team yes and we're coming to the conclusion that it might be impossible for us to win. It's simply heartbreaking for us to have put everything into making 'the best and most complete simulator ever' to have to read this. As you mention, the seething vitriolic hate we get following say posting a nice screenshot on Instagram is almost unreadable and probably dangerous to the mental health of our media people...

Take this little example where I was very patient to a chap being, well read for yourself: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54610-UI-elements-not-working-as-intended

This gentleman has reported me and my company to Steam for abuse. He also reported Mahjik. For this thread only...

This isn't at all uncommon. He's given our game a thumbs down on Steam stating he was treated very rudely by me...

This brings up the wider point on communication. We've been as open, communicative and interactive as we possibly could be and I would say more so than any other developers I know. For those efforts we're openly personally abused. We're also told to get professionals in to do it as we have no clue. When we don't communicate as much for a small time (and we've trialed it), we're accused of ignoring our costumers, being money grabbers, etc etc...

I know of three separate reports to the UK government accusing us of fraudulent trading practices and false advertising... This is with pCARS2 containing about 40 unadvertised features...

It really does make you start to consider if it's worth giving it your all to move sim racing forward or just work other genres with much less of this sort of behaviour and a much larger audience...

It's not the handful of haters that cause a negative impression of the game. IMO, it's the fact that the game still isn't ready for prime-time from a league play standpoint. If we had several active leagues running pcars2 with success, then the goodwill from that would overshadow whatever nonsense the haters are spewing in forums.

Man, the game is just awesome from a physics and feature standpoint. But all the workarounds required to actually USE the game as a sim puts a damper on the enthusiasm. First impressions are important. The interwebs have the attention span of a gnat. We are now almost 70 days since release and we're still looking for fixes to things as basic as setup management.

I feel for you guys. Not only do you have to work miracles on the game (you've done a great job!) but you also have to satisfy the marketing folks, and it seems that hitting the deadline for them has forced you to release the game before all the pieces were in place. I'm sure the marketing guys are smart at this stuff, but I reckon you guys know more about your target audience than they do. IMO it would be better to hit the ground running with a (working) feature complete product than to hit an artificial release window.

I truly wish you guys all the success in the world. I LOVE pcars2 and for purely selfish reasons (lobbies packed with racers) I hope it does really well. Let's hope that the demo will expose the game to more folks and that will translate into more sales.

DECATUR PLAYA
30-11-2017, 15:29
I spent a lot of time defending pcars 1 now I choose to just come here and talk with the people who love the game and to listen to the people that made the game.


As far as the haters go I find way more enjoyment just letting them miss out. Not worth the energy.

This game is a masterpiece.

LMGTP
30-11-2017, 15:39
I think the hate of the Project Cars series was made worse by YouTubers like that fool blackpanthaa who widely panned the game and even has the audicity to Ian Bell a con.

While he called Project Cars 2 garbage he started an all out war against reviewers because of the low scores that nfs payback got.

Him calling project cars 2 garbage while defending and damage controlling a garbage game like nfs payback. While he does not even play simulators but mainly arcade games. He even criticized pc2 for having too much racing cars compared to road cars. These are the kind of idiots who are making money while not even knowing what they are talking about. Project Cars 2 has garnered a lot of undeserved hate. Project Cars 2 is miles ahead of any nfs game made to even be calling it garbage while defending a failed game like payback literally makes you want to facepalm so bad.

It would be a shame to see this series die please dont let it happen. Project Cars 2 is one of the few games of today which offer a full motorsport experience at a time where most people want open world racing games, police chases and customization. Project Cars 2 is also a game that caters to motorsport fans not casuals who play their customization neons crap.

Keena
30-11-2017, 15:49
Reading stuff like this genuinely saddens me. I read a report on the BBC that the devs of the Star Wars game were actually receiving death threats. That's so far past the line that its gone all the way round the planet and crossed the line again. If people can't exercise free speech responsibly, be prepared to lose the privilege, and by this I mean that a draconian set of rules and standards will be enforced in discussion threads. Ultimately it will end up as a simple reporting forum where anything that is not purely dry and technical is deleted. I don't want that so for goodness sake people, get some sense of how to make your point without resorting to verbal sewage of the worst kind. I've said it in a previous post- those nearest and dearest to you would be ashamed of you if they saw what sort of stuff some of you were posting.

Cladandadum
30-11-2017, 16:07
Reading stuff like this genuinely saddens me. I read a report on the BBC that the devs of the Star Wars game were actually receiving death threats. That's so far past the line that its gone all the way round the planet and crossed the line again. If people can't exercise free speech responsibly, be prepared to lose the privilege, and by this I mean that a draconian set of rules and standards will be enforced in discussion threads. Ultimately it will end up as a simple reporting forum where anything that is not purely dry and technical is deleted. I don't want that so for goodness sake people, get some sense of how to make your point without resorting to verbal sewage of the worst kind. I've said it in a previous post- those nearest and dearest to you would be ashamed of you if they saw what sort of stuff some of you were posting.

Apparently, the death threats were untrue and made up by someone who did not work for either DICE or EA. Fake news has multiple greys.

Keena
30-11-2017, 16:09
Apparently, the death threats were untrue and made up by someone who did not work for either DICE or EA. Fake news has multiple greys.

That's some relief at least. :)

FlyPT
30-11-2017, 16:10
Happy place and happy racing, hell yeah.

https://media.giphy.com/media/PmdAdBwlJFQbu/giphy.gif





https://i0.wp.com/38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma8cleJw2j1r015l2o4_500.gif


Looks like AC fanboys trying to test PCARS2...
Who's beside you Andrew? Haiden, Michael, r@m?

77_HAN
30-11-2017, 18:41
I think the problem of pcars2 were the high expectations that people had and the frustration from the past that many things announced for pcars1 never happened. And I think that the communication with customers was suboptimal from time to time. When players realized that there were so many bugs in pcars2 at the launch day, the shitstorm started. I personally didn`t play pcars2 very much because of some bugs but since the new patch the old fun feeling with pcars has returned again! The force feedback, the graphics and the feeling for speed is great. I tested my Assetto Corsa against it and I must say that pcars2 is better in my opinion. I would like to see some tracks from Assetto Corsa in pcars but thats another thing.... I didn´t test the dedicated server yet, but if it has the same features like rfactor1 everything would be good. Keep on delivering such good patches like the last one and inform customers and testers regularly about progresses and I am sure that the sales and product image will rise.

BrightDark
30-11-2017, 20:21
I don't write many posts, unless I have spesifics to ask about, or spesifics to share.

But now I felt like saying something.

I read this forum, and I read the forum at GTPlanet as well. I read to learn about the sim, and to follow the progress. But I must admit that my stomach twists from time to time, when I see the level of ignorance, aggression and plain stupidity on display from time to time. And I know I'm staying away from the worst acts on other sites/channels...

I sincerely hope the whole SMS team can find the energy to keep working, despite this stuff.


In all simplicity:
* I practice online every wednesday with a group of friends. We're having a blast!
* I put some laps in a TT-combo now and then, and I've also driven a couple of community events.
I really enjoy the driving, and have wow-moments regularly.

* The fact that I can buy the technology a large group of extremely skilled, visionary and dedicated people spent years on making, for more or less 50 pounds, is mindblowing to me. It surely is one of the privilegies of the modern world.

I'm not really sure what more to say right now.

Oh yes, this:
I will buy EVERY DLC that will be released for Project CARS 2. Because I can. And I'm going to enjoy it!
I'm on PS4 now, but plan to build a PC sometimes next year. But I will buy the game for PC now. Up front. Because I can.


Cheers.
BrightDark,
Norway.

rosko
30-11-2017, 23:05
Lots of people distrust SMS, they say they use shady marketing practices. Much of this comes from the way people earned money from sales of the first game & SMS buying out blogs. I think because of this there are a lot of bizarre conspiracies going round, really i've read all sorts of nonsense. Personally i don't care about marketing it is what it is & like the fact there is another company taking a different approach, but for some people its some sort of crime.
But still the negative bias was already there from pcars 1 we all know that bias is almost impossible to change. i think in sim racing scene is full of insecure middle aged men desperate to feel more important than they do in their real lives. They want acceptance in a community from peers in their chosen sim. looking down there noses, mocking or being down right aggressive just so they can get there back slapped by other trolls. Many people are not this way in fact most of us are normal & can look at things objectively play more than one sim or maybe not exaggerate how bad or good things are.
Yes this game does frustrate me & some decisions sms make perplex me but as long as they continue to improve the game then there is no reason why i wouldn't play the game often along with the other sims i enjoy.

missy455
01-12-2017, 01:59
I think the problem of pcars2 were the high expectations that people had and the frustration from the past that many things announced for pcars1 never happened. And I think that the communication with customers was suboptimal from time to time. When players realized that there were so many bugs in pcars2 at the launch day, the shitstorm started. I personally didn`t play pcars2 very much because of some bugs but since the new patch the old fun feeling with pcars has returned again! The force feedback, the graphics and the feeling for speed is great. I tested my Assetto Corsa against it and I must say that pcars2 is better in my opinion. I would like to see some tracks from Assetto Corsa in pcars but thats another thing.... I didn´t test the dedicated server yet, but if it has the same features like rfactor1 everything would be good. Keep on delivering such good patches like the last one and inform customers and testers regularly about progresses and I am sure that the sales and product image will rise.

^^This is a true story.

*I love AC, but if PC2 had all their tracks and good modded tracks......Sweet.

breyzipp
01-12-2017, 04:38
Great post, wise words indeed. There are many people out there who consider it their business to save the world from Project CARS. You just have to hope there are enough other people out there who are prepared, like you, to make up their own mind.

If the world needs to be saved from something it's loot boxes. I bet Ian has a ton of fun sitting back relaxed, sipping on his wine and see this entire EA scandal unfold on YouTube and EA stock going down by 8.5% in just a week, that is 3.1 billon USD vaporized. The tower of greed and destruction might not be coming down yet but it sure as hell is being shaken. :)

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 10:38
It's all well and good Ian giving us sob stories about the abuse he and his team get on social media, but how does that sit with him that he pays an SMS employee who writes a nasty blog slagging off competitors games and the devs?
Are companies even allowed to be so open about paying an employee to slate the competition?

Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn?

Just my 2p's worth....

John Hargreaves
01-12-2017, 10:50
It's all well and good Ian giving us sob stories about the abuse he and his team get on social media, but how does that sit with him that he pays an SMS employee who writes a nasty blog slagging off competitors games and the devs?
Are companies even allowed to be so open about paying an employee to slate the competition?

Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn?

Just my 2p's worth....

That's an interesting point of view, but I don't think it's quite accurate. Presumably you are referring to PRC, which in the past, the PC1 days, was highly critical of the game. Ian Bell, very courageously in my opinion, spoke directly to the people who run the site and invited them to say exactly what they thought was wrong and to help improve the game. This resulted in some excellent feedback, some significant improvements to AI and physics, just like the professional drivers have given.
I don't sign the cheques, but I would bet your life on the fact that SMS do not pay anyone to slag off other games on any blog.

Bealdor
01-12-2017, 10:50
It's all well and good Ian giving us sob stories about the abuse he and his team get on social media, but how does that sit with him that he pays an SMS employee who writes a nasty blog slagging off competitors games and the devs?
Are companies even allowed to be so open about paying an employee to slate the competition?

Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn?

Just my 2p's worth....

Austin is paid for giving feedback on PCARS 2 and nothing more. SMS is not telling him what to write on his blog.
This has been stated multiple times already.

Roushman624
01-12-2017, 10:53
Austin is paid for giving feedback on PCARS 2 and nothing more. SMS is not telling him what to write on his blog.
This has been stated multiple times already.
My name is Austin... what did I do this time? Lol...:eek:

Zaskarspants
01-12-2017, 10:56
To frame abuse as ' sob stories ' is easy to do if you are not the victim.

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 10:56
Austin is paid for giving feedback on PCARS 2 and nothing more. SMS is not telling him what to write on his blog.
This has been stated multiple times already.

Well OK SMS pay him to race a car, SMS pay him a wage. He discloses that info on his blog then goes on to slag off competitors.
He represents SMS.
Sports stars have lost sponsorship due to questionable views or actions, they are not employees but they do represent the brand...
No good Ian getting all hurt about online hate when he turns a blind eye to someone who represents his brand doing the same..

Sampo
01-12-2017, 11:03
Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn

It's fine so long as people talk on a game's forum about other games, but when you start bashing against a game on forums like youtube and general gaming sites, you tend to influence people against said game.

Zaskarspants
01-12-2017, 11:04
Well OK SMS pay him to race a car, SMS pay him a wage. He discloses that info on his blog then goes on to slag off competitors.
He represents SMS.
Sports stars have lost sponsorship due to questionable views or actions, they are not employees but they do represent the brand...
No good Ian getting all hurt about online hate when he turns a blind eye to someone who represents his brand doing the same..

Do you see the irony in posting this on this thread?

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 11:17
Do you see the irony in posting this on this thread?

No, please enlighten me?
I suspect you don't really know what irony is...which would, be rather ironic....

Zaskarspants
01-12-2017, 11:52
No, please enlighten me?
I suspect you don't really know what irony is...which would, be rather ironic....

You think what you like.
You have had far more than your 2p worth and I have had quite enough of your stirring and vague accusations.

MaXyM
01-12-2017, 11:55
I don't sign the cheques, but I would bet your life on the fact that SMS do not pay anyone to slag off other games on any blog.

No.. he is not paid for slag off other games. He gets money to not slat SMS games.
I used to read PRC with pleasure because it was applying the same measure to all titles. All titles was blamed on any occasion to the same extent. Unfortunately right know it's clearly seen SMS titles are excluded.
From James point of view it is for sure great deal and probably he deserved it one way or another. But it compromises balance of critical attitude in his blog. Which is IMO a loss for community overall.

And next time, please bet your life instead of ours ;)

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 12:03
You think what you like.
You have had far more than your 2p worth and I have had quite enough of your stirring and vague accusations.

So can you explain why it was ironic?........ or did you use the wrong term? Just simply admit it and move on...

Zaskarspants
01-12-2017, 12:13
So can you explain why it was ironic?........ or did you use the wrong term? Just simply admit it and move on...

Well I read some of the blog and now I think you fail to grasp irony or accuracy.

rosko
01-12-2017, 12:35
It's all well and good Ian giving us sob stories about the abuse he and his team get on social media, but how does that sit with him that he pays an SMS employee who writes a nasty blog slagging off competitors games and the devs?
Are companies even allowed to be so open about paying an employee to slate the competition?

Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn?

Just my 2p's worth....

Really we have to start using the snowflake meme now, i see in the ac forums & now here?

Sankyo
01-12-2017, 12:40
No.. he is not paid for slag off other games. He gets money to not slat SMS games.
I used to read PRC with pleasure because it was applying the same measure to all titles. All titles was blamed on any occasion to the same extent. Unfortunately right know it's clearly seen SMS titles are excluded.
From James point of view it is for sure great deal and probably he deserved it one way or another. But it compromises balance of critical attitude in his blog. Which is IMO a loss for community overall.

So for you it's a given that Austin having become less critical of pCARS is only because he's getting money, and not because perhaps he actually thinks the game is quite good now?

Anyway, in his latest blog about pCARS he actually posted this, telling you how the situation is for him now. It's not that he wouldn't bash pCARS if he could, it's just that he's in a situation where he can make a much bigger impact on the game(s) that he loves to play, and that's by keeping it out of his blog and post it on WMD2:

(About tyre wear not working at all for certain cars.)

It would have been one of the better stories to run on PRC, but obviously there’s a catch.

Slightly Mad Studios are paying me to find shit wrong with their game so they can fix it, whereas PRC is a creative outlet that sends me about $100 in ad revenue every month or so. As an employee I’m responsible for holding up my end of the bargain and treating their needs as a developer with the highest priority, which means notifying them of the problem internally so they can fix it. All exposing the problem on PRC does is generate an extra bit of traffic for an evening or two, which means in the end your game doesn’t get fixed, and now the studio is paying someone to embarrass them on a blog rather than actually help them. Kind of useless if you ask me.

Nahkamarakatti
01-12-2017, 12:43
Austin is paid for giving feedback on PCARS 2 and nothing more. SMS is not telling him what to write on his blog.
This has been stated multiple times already.

It doesn't really matter what is the true purpose and to be fair, that's something only Ian knows. It's all about how it looks outside WMD bubble.

PRC combined with VirtualR and similarities between pC1 & 2 launches may trigger some people like me. If you drive a car with your company logo-stickers on your spare time you're still kind of representing your company. I have my principles and when I have limited time to use for my hobby it's really a no-brainer for me to hit the refund button because for me the game wasn't clearly as good as the WMD guys said before the release. I also have the right to say publicly what is my opinion about the game. And btw. I really like garlic..

That said, I might give the game another shot later and if I like it I will also spread the word. SMS have made it way too easy to critisize their franchise and I think it's a bit strange to be surprised how people are reacting. It's obvious threats are not OK.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not one of those who gives thumbs down or bad reviews on Steam. Also I can agree some people just don't stop preaching so I kind of understand why this thread is there. Still you cannot fully outplay SMS role. You can ask yourself how you have to do things to make people do such ridiculous things?

MaximusN
01-12-2017, 12:48
Is there a web filter to filter out people who want to cause verbal mayhem? I've kind of, no, totally had it with these complainers and aluminum foil hats. Their only achievement is to cause a venomous atmosphere. I'd pay money to have them go somewhere else and enjoy life instead of repeating their perceived negative look on things and hope people tag along. :(

Zenzic
01-12-2017, 12:57
The problem is there's a lot of people who seem hell bent on convincing others how bad the game is. And by god, do they need a lot of words to try and do so. A lot of problems, and not only on this forum, could be solved if people would just mind their own business; don't have anything constructive, relevant and polite to add? Move along.

Konan
01-12-2017, 13:14
It's all well and good Ian giving us sob stories about the abuse he and his team get on social media, but how does that sit with him that he pays an SMS employee who writes a nasty blog slagging off competitors games and the devs?
Are companies even allowed to be so open about paying an employee to slate the competition?

Whilst I am at it in the off topic section there is plenty of folks laying into AC RF2 Forza GT etc etc... so why be such snowflakes when the tables turn?

Just my 2p's worth....

Even if what you claim were true....how does that compare to comments like :" i wish you and your family get cancer"?
That post didn't even get moderated...
Competition is all fine but that is bluntly crossing the line...every line!
So please quit with the "sob stories" remarks...uncalled for and totally out of order!

MaXyM
01-12-2017, 13:19
So for you it's a given that Austin having become less critical of pCARS is only because he's getting money, and not because perhaps he actually thinks the game is quite good now?

Ehmm. Isn't it obvious for everybody?
OK. It seems he just changed his mind. But would the game need serious patching being 'quite good' or having serious issues not even fixed by several '150+ fixes' patches?
If you doubt, re-read his articles about ProjectCars especially focusing on language, swearing etc. And compare to recent articles about pC2. Articles about pC2 have completely different wording and attitude-wise comparing to others. It's so obvious that there is no need to prove that.



Slightly Mad Studios are paying me to find shit wrong with their game so they can fix it
(...)
All exposing the problem on PRC does is generate an extra bit of traffic for an evening or two, which means in the end your game doesn’t get fixed, and now the studio is paying someone to embarrass them on a blog rather than actually help them. Kind of useless if you ask me.

So why not save even more time and stop bashing other titles at all? Isn't bashing SMS competitors 'kind of useless'?

As I said already, I really don't care about is he paid or what he is paid for. I only think it's pity that PRC is not objective anymore.

boris_s.
01-12-2017, 13:26
i am one of these rare individuals that love a lot of racing sims... I love iRacing, PC2, AC and even partially RaceRoom. I think there is no sim that is the holy grale. All sims have their strong sides and their weak sides. And of course it is useless to spent your time on bashing any other sim than your "holy grale". Spent that time with racing... It will give you much more satisfaction ;)

demerzel
01-12-2017, 13:36
So for you it's a given that Austin having become less critical of pCARS is only because he's getting money, and not because perhaps he actually thinks the game is quite good now?

Anyway, in his latest blog about pCARS he actually posted this, telling you how the situation is for him now. It's not that he wouldn't bash pCARS if he could, it's just that he's in a situation where he can make a much bigger impact on the game(s) that he loves to play, and that's by keeping it out of his blog and post it on WMD2:

(About tyre wear not working at all for certain cars.)


I feel that Austin is less critical about every game nowadays.

John Hargreaves
01-12-2017, 13:38
I agree, I think the standard of journalism has improved there generally in the last year or two.

Sankyo
01-12-2017, 13:39
Ehmm. Isn't it obvious for everybody?
OK. It seems he just changed his mind. But would the game need serious patching being 'quite good' or having serious issues not even fixed by several '150+ fixes' patches?
That's not related to this discussion, that's just you trying to force your 'perfect software' pet peeve into this discussion ;) Besides, Austin is basing his judgements in the article I quoted on post-patch-3.0 builds.


If you doubt, re-read his articles about ProjectCars especially focusing on language, swearing etc. And compare to recent articles about pC2. Articles about pC2 have completely different wording and attitude-wise comparing to others. It's so obvious that there is no need to prove that.
I've seen Austin give praise to other sims when due as well recently. Does that mean he's paid now by those other developers? And is objectivity measured by the number of swear words per blog?

And again, in case you missed the point, Austin is being paid to criticize pCARS2 on WMD2, so he directs his energy to that. I'm pretty sure that Ian literally stated that whatever Austin writes on PRC is outside their pC2 consulting deal, so from SMS side there are no restrictions.




So why not save even more time and stop bashing other titles at all?
You lost me completely here? Who stated that it is about saving time? It's about having impact on the race sim developers through his blogs. For pCARS, he has found a much more effective way of having impact, but the consequence is that he'll not say everything he thinks about pC2 anymore on PRC, by his own words.


As I said already, I really don't care about is he paid or what he is paid for. I only think it's pity that PRC is not objective anymore.
I think you mean 'impartial', not 'objective'. His blogs are his personal opinion, so by definition not objective.

John Hargreaves
01-12-2017, 13:49
Austin has given a great deal of critical feedback on PC2 in all sorts of areas. He, like all the other paid consultants, hasn't held back on any detail where he has a point of view. I have found his thoughts to be detailed, clear and honest, and as he is a fast sim driver and real world racer, his feedback has been excellent.

I would imagine that it is much more satisfying to be able to criticize a game and make genuine improvements to it than just spouting negative sweary rants that just irritate people.

jimortality
01-12-2017, 14:28
Who the f*** is Austin??

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 14:30
Austin has given a great deal of critical feedback on PC2 in all sorts of areas. He, like all the other paid consultants, hasn't held back on any detail where he has a point of view. I have found his thoughts to be detailed, clear and honest, and as he is a fast sim driver and real world racer, his feedback has been excellent.

I would imagine that it is much more satisfying to be able to criticize a game and make genuine improvements to it than just spouting negative sweary rants that just irritate people.

Lol!!! PRC rants about all games bar PCars 2, he likes to call people 'autistic', he throws that around all the time along with 'retard' on his 'articles'... he has it in for Sector 3 / simbin and RF2 in particular...i wonder why that is....hmmmm.
He is the Katie Hopkins of simracing.....

"PRC:
Not sure if it’s the same track model, but SimTraxx also made Hong Kong and never released it publicly.

Entirely possible Studio 397 is just buying 3D assets from other sources, cobbling them together as quickly as possible, then releasing as “official DLC.”

Austin or James, wrote that.....now he doesn't even cover himself or SMS by saying "allegedly"... if i were Studio397 i'd be calling my lawyers...

Mad Al
01-12-2017, 14:31
Who the f*** is Austin??

google

"The worst site you could possibly visit for Sim Racing news."

petrolandpixels
01-12-2017, 14:40
Go have a read and remember Ian Bell pays that guy to race and pays him a wage. And don't forget to read Austins old posts about Ian Bell and SMS amd PCars 1.
If you do you will soon see that if you want Ian Bell to fund your life you need to give him hell, not kiss his butt.
PRC gave Ian Bell an near break down....and he got a race car out of it!
I'll leave you guys to the echo chamber...


just tried....oh you can't link PRC to this forum!!! Lol!! they should change that now he's a friend of SMS...

Fight-Test
01-12-2017, 15:00
Go have a read and remember Ian Bell pays that guy to race and pays him a wage. And don't forget to read Austins old posts about Ian Bell and SMS amd PCars 1.
If you do you will soon see that if you want Ian Bell to fund your life you need to give him hell, not kiss his butt.
PRC gave Ian Bell an near break down....and he got a race car out of it!
I'll leave you guys to the echo chamber...

What I see is SMS and Ian supporting a grass roots level racer that writes about sim racing as he tries his hand at the real thing. I give so much props for this and not just trying to put their name on high level racers cars for marketing only like GT and Forza has always done. We are racers and should support each other for that. SMS doing what they are doing for Austin and him being smart enough to create a platform to help himself generate money for his racing passion is just a amazing thing. Now I'm not a big fan of his blog (in regards to the sim racing articles), its highly subjective commentating and I don't really deal with "if's and butt's" because everyone has those but I do follow his article about his racing. As a low level racer myself I have only respect for Ian for doing this.

You come off like you have a underdeveloped perspective. Like you have to put everything in a category to comprehend it. You arguments are so flawed but really what does it matter? You don't have to read the blog just like you don't have to play the game. Everyone is a shill or poser by what you are saying, I have a job and support my company but dont' agree with everything. That sounds exactly like Austin and most people with jobs on here I'm sure will agree. I'm guessing you might still be fairly young and haven't been a contributing part of the work force yet as you seem to lack any perspective about the give and take of a employer. Like do you realize alot the review sites are owned or fully supported by Microsoft or Sony which influence game reviews all the time? Do you realize most things aren't what they seem so you need to judge things yourself, instead of reading other peoples feelings and thinking they are truth. You should be able to form your own opinions without worrying about a blog! A blog, really we talking about a blog? Be sensible adult and just ignore what you want, accept what you want but don't pass down judgment on others that aren't hurting or affecting you as they work hard to build something that lets them follow their dreams. Guys at grassroots who we should all support are struggling to just to make it to the track these days. It's terribly expensive and the few guys who do make it on the tarmac I have total respect for these guys and its shameful of you to just bad mouth it because of some flawed idea you have that escapes rationality. You need to start forming your own opinions that don't belittle people or their hard work. Don't discourage and inflame, that is what caused more issues and negativity and we don't need that in this sport or sim racing. You should try to find positive in things as you seem to think everyone is below you and your opinion is the best. Try the other way, that others opinions matter and if you disagree start a meaningful dialog to get their side and to explain yours. Attacking is just bulling or childish like kids on the play ground. I'm just find it shameful that your are trying to tear down another low level racer trying to make it like so many before him who did everything in their power to make it on track.

This was not written by anonymous.

Signed: Fight-Test

Hobbs77
01-12-2017, 15:07
It's very frustrating for our media team yes and we're coming to the conclusion that it might be impossible for us to win. It's simply heartbreaking for us to have put everything into making 'the best and most complete simulator ever' to have to read this. As you mention, the seething vitriolic hate we get following say posting a nice screenshot on Instagram is almost unreadable and probably dangerous to the mental health of our media people...
..

I agree a lot of the abuse from the pure hater's is just ridiculous. But where I think it really took off is when there was so much hype from the community before the release of pCARS 1. And when the game was released in the state it was in, well that's when the explosion of haters really caught fire. All the promises of how great this game was going to be and it was almost a complete disaster imo. We basically shot ourselves in the foot and gave them the fuel to ignite a firestorm of haters. Games will always have bugs and unfortunately I think pCARS will always have haters too. But who knows maybe with time..... as all things change!

I appreciate that the team is always trying to push the boundaries of the racing sim forward but at the same time the game has some basic fundamental things wrong that take away from the emersion of game play for me. We're now 5-6 yrs into the pCars franchise and there's still rain drops and head lights going through the cockpit of the cars as if there isn't any exterior body to the cars. In vr it's so bright in there, it's as if there's 20 halogen headlights on inside the car, I guess at times there are. So for me a night time race in the rain really gets me going! lol There's a list of other things but I'll stop there. I know there's always other pressing, more important things that need fixing first so a lot of the little things get lost in the mix.:D

IceShaft
01-12-2017, 15:12
All the promises of how great this game was going to be and it was almost a complete disaster imo.

This is exaggerated and not true at all, but still... I'll say that again, even if it was true it doesn't justify personal threats and all the hate.
It's a videogame, d*** it!!

Eric Everfast
01-12-2017, 15:20
i am one of these rare individuals that love a lot of racing sims... I love iRacing, PC2, AC and even partially RaceRoom. I think there is no sim that is the holy grale. All sims have their strong sides and their weak sides. And of course it is useless to spent your time on bashing any other sim than your "holy grale". Spent that time with racing... It will give you much more satisfaction ;)

Hey, totally agree with this man. More racing, less nitpicking. Some people seem to find the smallest of details where I have to ask myself if they're even playing the game. This last remark mostly has to do with visuals/graphics btw.

SMS, don't listen to the haters who have nothing constructive to say. This game captures motorsport like none other.

Nahkamarakatti
01-12-2017, 15:28
I'll say that again, even if it was true it doesn't justify personal threats and all the hate.
It's a videogame, d*** it!!

I don't think there's anybody who can disagree with you on that.

Grijo
01-12-2017, 15:59
I identified some types of people that have something negative to say about Project Cars:

1. Haters - That´s all they are, haters. they will do everything to criticise and shot the team and the game down. Their opinions or statements hasn´t nothing to do with their seek for improvements or solutions, it´s a destruction mission.

2. The "half empty glass" group - SMS or other game developer can make a perfect game. But if he/she spot a pixel misplaced, he will voice that like it was the end of the world.

3. The "Why not something is not that way" group - A person that belong to that group think that his point of view about something is the right one, like how a certain car behave for example. He/she can read a lot of opinions and facts that differs from his/her. But he/she doesn´t care, "it´s my way or the highway"

4. The "Look at me" group - The "Look at me" group - It´s a part of the "Why not something is not that way" group. Same characteristics, but usually they use words like "I will not play it anymore", "I will sell it", "I will trade it" or "Bye Bye" in the end of the sentence.

5. The misinformed buyer - Is a person that thinks he//she is buying a game like Forza or GT. And then, when he/she discover that is a totally different game, he/she come to the forum and start a s*** storm. PS: Nothing against Forza or GT since I like them too.

6. The "never satisfied" group - Is a mix of two groups: The "half empty glass" group and The "Why not something is not that way" group. They complain and claim about specific changes to the game. When it´s done, they complain because the change did not achieve their expectations.

7. The "I love the game, but..." group. The minor part of the whole, this group really love the game, but is/was experiencing some problems and/or bugs. In general, they don´t use curse words, chat in a polite manner, try to describe what they´re experiencing in the best way possible, most of the time with detailed videos and screenshots. The problem is, when a person that makes part of that group start a serious thread or conversation, the other 6 groups shows to ruin the whole point. And then they don´t get the attention they need because the attention turns to those who want to create disturbance.

@Ian Bell, I´m part of the group 7 and I will not lie: I´m not having fun with Pcars 2 due the various problems that I´m encountering. I don´t keep posting about them because a lot of people already did it. So, I think one more person saying the same thing would not be more helpful or speed things up. I don´t play it by a month and a half now, expecting a big improvement. I´m pacient and since I love the first one (best racing times in my whole life), I´m waiting to have a big time with Pcars 2, I want to love it too.

I´m sorry about the fact that you, SMS team and mods have to deal with unpleasant and unpolite persons, I´m really sorry. Because I know that you and everybody of the SMS team wants that to be great, and I hope you succeed at that because, if you succeed, we will succeed too.

My best to all of you

eracerhead
01-12-2017, 16:12
Is there a web filter to filter out people who want to cause verbal mayhem? I've kind of, no, totally had it with these complainers and aluminum foil hats. Their only achievement is to cause a venomous atmosphere. I'd pay money to have them go somewhere else and enjoy life instead of repeating their perceived negative look on things and hope people tag along. :(

I’d pay too; the place I’ll go to get away from all that will be called “WMD3”...

MaximusN
01-12-2017, 17:07
I identified some types of people that have something negative to say about Project Cars:

1. Haters - That´s all they are, haters. they will do everything to criticise and shot the team and the game down. Their opinions or statements hasn´t nothing to do with their seek for improvements or solutions, it´s a destruction mission.

2. The "half empty glass" group - SMS or other game developer can make a perfect game. But if he/she spot a pixel misplaced, he will voice that like it was the end of the world.

3. The "Why not something is not that way" group - A person that belong to that group think that his point of view about something is the right one, like how a certain car behave for example. He/she can read a lot of opinions and facts that differs from his/her. But he/she doesn´t care, "it´s my way or the highway"

4. The "Look at me" group - The "Look at me" group - It´s a part of the "Why not something is not that way" group. Same characteristics, but usually they use words like "I will not play it anymore", "I will sell it", "I will trade it" or "Bye Bye" in the end of the sentence.

5. The misinformed buyer - Is a person that thinks he//she is buying a game like Forza or GT. And then, when he/she discover that is a totally different game, he/she come to the forum and start a s*** storm. PS: Nothing against Forza or GT since I like them too.

6. The "never satisfied" group - Is a mix of two groups: The "half empty glass" group and The "Why not something is not that way" group. They complain and claim about specific changes to the game. When it´s done, they complain because the change did not achieve their expectations.

7. The "I love the game, but..." group. The minor part of the whole, this group really love the game, but is/was experiencing some problems and/or bugs. In general, they don´t use curse words, chat in a polite manner, try to describe what they´re experiencing in the best way possible, most of the time with detailed videos and screenshots. The problem is, when a person that makes part of that group start a serious thread or conversation, the other 6 groups shows to ruin the whole point. And then they don´t get the attention they need because the attention turns to those who want to create disturbance.

@Ian Bell, I´m part of the group 7 and I will not lie: I´m not having fun with Pcars 2 due the various problems that I´m encountering. I don´t keep posting about them because a lot of people already did it. So, I think one more person saying the same thing would not be more helpful or speed things up. I don´t play it by a month and a half now, expecting a big improvement. I´m pacient and since I love the first one (best racing times in my whole life), I´m waiting to have a big time with Pcars 2, I want to love it too.

I´m sorry about the fact that you, SMS team and mods have to deal with unpleasant and unpolite persons, I´m really sorry. Because I know that you and everybody of the SMS team wants that to be great, and I hope you succeed at that because, if you succeed, we will succeed too.

My best to all of you

Group 7 here. I have things I don't like, but most are design choices, not bugs, and in the end not even important. But still, I've been very careful lately mentioning them because you both get group 1-6 agreeing with you and also the rest of group 1-6 against you on the other side of the debate. And I'm really not comfortable with either of that. I feel drowned out by the shouters and nay-sayers both on my 'side' and against it.

And all us 7's on either side are looking and saying, this is not where we wanted this discussion to go. And if it really gets bad the thread gets locked, so the subject stays unresolved(which is bad in itself), fueling(sadly) group 1-6 to fight even harder.

It's an unwinnable fight I'm afraid because the lunatics(and their multiple personalities using different IP's) have taken control of the looney bin. Sad for the people looking to enjoy themselves, and even more SMS. They really can't fathom how much harm they are doing.

And the horrible thing is, 'social'-media are infected with normal people acting like 1-6 too. And in a sense that's the problem. We've all been given this wonderful thing called the internet. You'd say the world population would use it to understand each other and communicate better. It actually does the opposite, and very well I might add :(

balderz002
01-12-2017, 18:36
Going back to this vlogger/blogger/ kid with a make believe job on the internet. If you worked for Nestle, does that mean you can't eat Cadbury's? Same thing? Different? Does anyone care about any of it? No, me neither.

Krobo
12-12-2017, 20:04
What a sad state of affairs this whole thing has become .. wtf is wrong with people ..It's a game meant to be played for enjoyment , how or why people can get so wound up over a petty amount of cash spent to be able to race pixels around boggles my mind lol .. don't like it ? don't buy/play it your choice . g but to spread hatred around like some have been doing is just satanic & shows just how sick humanity can be

SMS with this game have raised the bar for sim titles ,say what you will but every other developer now has something to shoot for and this is a good thing for our hobby ..

I personally have no issues with the game & as admin of a multi sim league we have added pc2 to our scheduled championships along side AC, rf1 & 2 ,AMS and are having a blast with it .. (if your looking for good clean league racing in PC2 send me a pm)

I read back a few pages of some one stating "its not useable for league play" ? ? wow we must be lucky then .. ;-) are there some issues ? yes (no more than any of the other sim's we use had when they were 3 months old) can we as a league work around them ? yes with ease .. The ds is not quite up to snuff atm but we run a DS and using the -selectds we have no issues at all having epic door to door racing with this title , I have a HUGE smile on my face after a league race with pc2 , and its contagious I have swayed many of our AC & rf2 users to come try it and after one race they all have been signing up for the pc2 series[s] we are running .. ..
In the end its all about entertainment for me .. and this game delivers .. I must say some minds were blown in the first race I added a rain storm to .. comments like " I have never had an experience like this in any game its amazing! " Our VR users were begging for more ..

I just don't get all the hate .. its ok to not like it but to go out of your way to terrorize developers is criminal IMO .. and simply ignorant by nature ...

People of planet earth calm down ! IT's A FRIKIN VIDEO GAME !!!lol

hkraft300
12-12-2017, 23:18
Facebook sim racing groups are terrible. People who haven’t played it are straight on that pc2 hate train. They mock it and crap on it with every mention but with serious admiration for AC.
Because logic :rolleyes:

There’s also the idiot youtubers with a million views crashing in driveclub with a game pad but calling pc/2 rubbish :hopelessness:

It’s the Trump/ flat earth phenomenon and entitled behaviour.

Also how dare you disagree...

Can’t win with these people. You lose so much of your brain cells and IQ points in the process it’s not worth it.

Thanks sms for a brilliant game. You guys know you’re in another league compared to everything else out there.

LMGTP
13-12-2017, 05:08
Facebook sim racing groups are terrible. People who haven’t played it are straight on that pc2 hate train. They mock it and crap on it with every mention but with serious admiration for AC.
Because logic :rolleyes:

There’s also the idiot youtubers with a million views crashing in driveclub with a game pad but calling pc/2 rubbish :hopelessness:

It’s the Trump/ flat earth phenomenon and entitled behaviour.

Also how dare you disagree...

Can’t win with these people. You lose so much of your brain cells and IQ points in the process it’s not worth it.

Thanks sms for a brilliant game. You guys know you’re in another league compared to everything else out there.

Not to mention that idiot blackpanthaa who has the audacity to call PC2 garbage while defending and doing damage control on that garbage NFS payback game.

Sankyo
13-12-2017, 06:51
Can’t win with these people.


Because they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Well-known phenomenon.

hkraft300
13-12-2017, 06:59
Not to mention that idiot blackpanthaa who has the audacity to call PC2 garbage while defending and doing damage control on that garbage NFS payback game.

Lol Ye...
Credibility :rolleyes: