PDA

View Full Version : Its difficult not to be cynical about this.



Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 12:41
Please take the 90 seconds to watch.


http://youtu.be/xYBvggUHTAA

FxUK
02-12-2017, 12:52
Some people are just bad losers, unfortunately.

Kebabfelix
02-12-2017, 12:52
Yeah don't focus on the number, just the letter.

Only liked 10% is above 1500 in rating.

Seelenkrank
02-12-2017, 12:56
if the host cant win or lose fair he should stay on offline races with AI 0/0...

poirqc
02-12-2017, 12:59
I agree, that was a cheap move. We can also assume the host was rammed before as his car was scratchless...

There should be some kind of kick protection when a session come close to an end. Currently, they can enforce a limit to join a session. Maybe they could put a similar check toward the end of a session.

While is sucks went it happen to you, it's a genuine issue.

M-PowerX
02-12-2017, 13:06
A very similar thing happened to me too, I was first, lapped the host that was driving at 1km/h and suddenly I was disconnected.
Not counting how many time I've been kicked when I was in front row in the pre-race 2 minutes setup time, if you are not ready in 30 secs, you get kicked.
Spent 20 mins or more to qualify and then you can't even race...

Lewy
02-12-2017, 13:08
Does This sort of thing happen a lot ?
Only ask because I’ve never tried online

ELAhrairah
02-12-2017, 13:20
I know how it feels. I lost the same amount. The ranking system and how it processes disconnects should have a fix in the 1.3 patch.

Ofnir4
02-12-2017, 13:34
triple penalty : Get kicked, lose an deserved win, lose ranking... and no fault of his own.

Unfortunately, unless host privileges are removed during the race (replaced by standard voting system), or they find a system to protect people who had no contact from being kicked, you are a the mercy off jerk hosting.

cpcdem
02-12-2017, 13:36
Does This sort of thing happen a lot ?
Only ask because I’ve never tried online

It has happened to me 3-4 times in over 250 online races. So I wouldn't say it happens a lot, but when it happens it is indeed very frustrating.

snakehands
02-12-2017, 13:42
Please take the 90 seconds to watch. Enjoy.


https://youtu.be/xYBvggUHTAA

Yeah, the host is a pathetic human being and that's for sure. He should be banned.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 13:57
Yeah, the host is a pathetic human being and that's for sure. He should be banned.

I still think it would be possible to weed these winner-kickers out. It would take keeping track of how many times someone kicks (multiple) people out in front maybe combined with how many car contacts those people in front had with other people that race. Banning them is maybe a bit much, but they should lose their kick privilege.

Because that's what it is, a privilege.

And frankly, with the introduction of a rating system, that is necessary. IMHO this is much more unwanted behavior than someone in the back that quits because he isn't in the top 5.

tipostrano
02-12-2017, 14:30
Same ol' story, Stupid losers. Is common, expecially when high ranked. Yesterday same here.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 14:52
I still think it would be possible to weed these winner-kickers out. It would take keeping track of how many times someone kicks (multiple) people out in front maybe combined with how many car contacts those people in front had with other people that race. Banning them is maybe a bit much, but they should lose their kick privilege.

Because that's what it is, a privilege.

And frankly, with the introduction of a rating system, that is necessary. IMHO this is much more unwanted behavior than someone in the back that quits because he isn't in the top 5.

It maybe a bit much, but a host-rating(next to safety and skill) could be an option.

Like they say: with great power comes great responsibility. And in this case there should be accountability.

CoproManiac
02-12-2017, 15:08
We need a personal blacklist so we can get rid of bad hosts ourselves.

Manni9000
02-12-2017, 15:23
what happened in lap 5? when starting lap 5 your car was fine, before the kick the car was suddenly pretty damaged. maybe the host kicked you because of this event?

CoproManiac
02-12-2017, 15:46
what happened in lap 5? when starting lap 5 your car was fine, before the kick the car was suddenly pretty damaged. maybe the host kicked you because of this event?

Good spot.

@Pink_650S Please upload entire lap 5

Edit: Actually, upload the entire race.
Lap 2: 0 - 1 damage
Lap 3: 3 - 1 damage
Lap 4: 3 - 6 damage
Lap 5: Can't read, but more front damage.

Seems like there's been some touches entire race, would like to see the race to come to an objective conclusion as to why you were kicked.

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 15:56
what happened in lap 5? when starting lap 5 your car was fine, before the kick the car was suddenly pretty damaged. maybe the host kicked you because of this event?

Thats a good question. The guy in 4th place blocked me while l tried to lap him. You can see him being a blue dot on the map on that last lap.

l tried to keep the video as short as possible, while still making my point clear. You know about the littke attention spans people have these days.

I could have also included all the footage where l tried to overtake the host in the infield section a hundred times, where he, too, blocked me. But that wasnt necessary to prove the point l was trying to make.

snakehands
02-12-2017, 16:05
Thats a good question. The guy in 4th place blocked me while l tried to lap him. You can see him being a blue dot on the map on that last lap.

l tried to keep the video as short as possible, while still making my point clear. You know about the littke attention spans people have these days.

I could have also included all the footage where l tried to overtake the host in the infield section a hundred times, where he, too, blocked me. But that wasnt necessary to prove the point l was trying to make.

I wouldn't mind seeing the whole thing.

CoproManiac
02-12-2017, 16:21
I wouldn't mind seeing the whole thing.

Me neither, got some spare time anyway :)

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 17:05
Haha, its uploading, no worries ;)

maxx69
02-12-2017, 17:40
I'd love to watch it all .....but my attention span is too short these days :rolleyes:

My advice is don't worry about the numbers or numb nuts and join a decent racing community.

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 17:45
Okay, here's the full video.

Things that could be of importance:
- Cockpit view was forced. (I usually switch to Roof for better overview, if l feel a car has a bad view, which this Ligier had).

- We only did a 15-minute qualy to this, in which l took pole by 2.5 seconds.

- l'm new to racing with a wheel, bought it with this game's release. Thats why l'm still not always convinced when to pass and when not to. But l always try to stay clean.

- l know what part of the video you will point out. It was my fault, should've braked earlier, but he was really, unexpectedly slow at many parts of the track. AND l let him stay in front, as l knew it was mostly my fault.


http://youtu.be/zj6NMgkUlBo

PS: How do l implement the link so it shows the video straight away?

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 17:47
I'd love to watch it all .....but my attention span is too short these days :rolleyes:

My advice is don't worry about the numbers or numb nuts and join a decent racing community.

Fun fact, l was invited by Rodgerz to join YOUR group :D

snipeme77
02-12-2017, 17:48
I was racing last night on Xbox, and somebody joined and just started voting to kick everyone... It was increasingly annoying as Qualifying went on, and by the time we got to the start of the race, there was only 9 people left in what was a 14 person lobby...

Also for the OG post, If it were my game, I would ban the host from playing the game online for unsportsmanlike like conduct. That was flat out pathetic...

snipeme77
02-12-2017, 17:54
A very similar thing happened to me too, I was first, lapped the host that was driving at 1km/h and suddenly I was disconnected.
Not counting how many time I've been kicked when I was in front row in the pre-race 2 minutes setup time, if you are not ready in 30 secs, you get kicked.
Spent 20 mins or more to qualify and then you can't even race...

Have had this happen too, just trying to reload my setup in between session since car setups are broken on Xbox, and got kicked...

Tbolt
02-12-2017, 18:00
This is why I don't often race online with others because of these sort of drivers. I find it strange that all they care about is winning but a lot of them are not even that good.

All I want is to have good racing I'm not so bothered where I place. In the past I have found good people to race with that are close to my level, with several of them when there's only two or three of us in the race if one of us spins out the others would slow down so we can get close again and race and have fun rather than just driving the rest of the race on our own.

snakehands
02-12-2017, 18:14
This is why I don't often race online with others because of these sort of drivers. I find it strange that all they care about is winning but a lot of them are not even that good.

All I want is to have good racing I'm not so bothered where I place. In the past I have found good people to race with that are close to my level, with several of them when there's only two or three of us in the race if one of us spins out the others would slow down so we can get close again and race and have fun rather than just driving the rest of the race on our own.

Leagues are the way forward and always have been. You makes friends with the other racers and the overall racecraft improves no end.

CoproManiac
02-12-2017, 18:15
Okay, here's the full video.

Things that could be of importance:
- Cockpit view was forced. (I usually switch to Roof for better overview, if l feel a car has a bad view, which this Ligier had).

- We only did a 15-minute qualy to this, in which l took poke by 2.5 seconds.

- l'm new to racing with a wheel, bought it with this game's release. Thats why l'm still not always convinced when to pass and when not to. But l always try to stay clean.

- l know what part of the video you will point out. It was my fault, should've braked earlier, but he was really, unexpectedly slow at many parts of the track. AND l let him stay in front, as l knew it was mostly my fault.

https://youtu.be/zj6NMgkUlBo

PS: How do l implement the link so it shows the video straight away?

Your driving wasn't nearly bad enough for you to get kicked. Although it wasn't the cleanest of races, you didn't ram on purpose and gave back the position when you caused a problem.
The host was a d*ck and shouldn't be allowed to host a lobby when he abuses his power like he did.

To insert a video:
either use this [-VIDEO] [-/VIDEO] (remove the -), or click the little 'video' symbol. It's on the right hand side above the screen where you write your comments.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 18:15
This is why I don't often race online with others because of these sort of drivers. I find it strange that all they care about is winning but a lot of them are not even that good.

All I want is to have good racing I'm not so bothered where I place. In the past I have found good people to race with that are close to my level, with several of them when there's only two or three of us in the race if one of us spins out the others would slow down so we can get close again and race and have fun rather than just driving the rest of the race on our own.

I'd go even further and say it's nice to win once in a while but boring if it happens too often. I'd rather have a good and fair battle in the midfield. And I REALLY can't get my head around people cheating(by kicking) to win, because that totally defeats the purpose of winning, namely the euphoria of accomplishment. It's nothing more than an empty win. In fact I'd rather be beaten by someone who I suspect is cheating than go anywhere near cheating to achieve the same.

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 18:35
Leagues are the way forward and always have been. You makes friends with the other racers and the overall racecraft improves no end.

I know league racing is where you get the best experience in a racing sim. Been hosting one myself in pCars 1 for about 7 months.
But it shouldnt be the only way people are able to enjoy this game.

poirqc
02-12-2017, 18:36
There's a button when you post:
246644


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj6NMgkUlBo&feature=youtu.be

snakehands
02-12-2017, 18:38
I know league racing is where you get the best experience in a racing sim. Been hosting one myself in pCars 1 for about 7 months.
But it shouldnt be the only way people are able to enjoy this game.

Not the only way but definitely the best for serious sim racers.

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 18:41
I'd go even further and say it's nice to win once in a while but boring if it happens too often. I'd rather have a good and fair battle in the midfield. And I REALLY can't get my head around people cheating(by kicking) to win, because that totally defeats the purpose of winning, namely the euphoria of accomplishment. It's nothing more than an empty win. In fact I'd rather be beaten by someone who I suspect is cheating than go anywhere near cheating to achieve the same.

This.
Last night l was racing with a fine group of 12 - 16 gentlemen. Although l was about 2 seconds off the pace, l've had 3 - 4 people that were similarly “slow“ and l had the best, cleanest race evening ever since the game came out.
Even fighting for 10th or 12th can be fun with the right people.

BTT: l hope SMS figures something out to make this abusement less of a problem.

bradleyland
02-12-2017, 18:54
It sucks when you end up with a bad host, but I think SMS have the correct solution coming in the next patch: no loss of points for kicks.

I run lobbies with a group of friends, and we kick questionable drivers pretty quickly. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it’s our lobby. Don’t like it? Run your own. I probably kicked eight people last night. Of course, none of them were winning any races, if you know what I mean.

The problem with restricting host-kick privileges is blindingly obvious to anyone who has played Assetto Corsa, which has a vote-only system (no host kick). In AC, servers are constantly ruined because egregious wreckers cannot be kicked. I have been in many lobbies where a racer parks their car across the circuit at T1, and repeated votes to kick just tail and fail and fail. It is infuriating. I love AC, but I basically use it only to race at “trackday” style events. I have never finished a clean pub race in AC that didn’t have some kind of wrecker. Never.

Contrast this to PC2, where we run clean race after clean race a couple of times a week. Host kick privileges are essential to running good pub lobbies.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 19:00
It sucks when you end up with a bad host, but I think SMS have the correct solution coming in the next patch: no loss of points for kicks.
For me , no, because getting robbed of a good race is way more worse than losing those meaningless points. They are a means to an end and always secondary to what we came here for:racing(or in case of being kicked not-racing).

Pink_650S
02-12-2017, 19:00
It sucks when you end up with a bad host, but I think SMS have the correct solution coming in the next patch: no loss of points for kicks.

I run lobbies with a group of friends, and we kick questionable drivers pretty quickly. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it’s our lobby. Don’t like it? Run your own. I probably kicked eight people last night. Of course, none of them were winning any races, if you know what I mean.

The problem with restricting host-kick privileges is blindingly obvious to anyone who has played Assetto Corsa, which has a vote-only system (no host kick). In AC, servers are constantly ruined because egregious wreckers cannot be kicked. I have been in many lobbies where a racer parks their car across the circuit at T1, and repeated votes to kick just tail and fail and fail. It is infuriating. I love AC, but I basically use it only to race at “trackday” style events. I have never finished a clean pub race in AC that didn’t have some kind of wrecker. Never.

Contrast this to PC2, where we run clean race after clean race a couple of times a week. Host kick privileges are essential to running good pub lobbies.

This sounds like a fair solution indeed. I hope it'll work as intended. :)

bradleyland
02-12-2017, 19:30
For me , no, because getting robbed of a good race is way more worse than losing those meaningless points. They are a means to an end and always secondary to what we came here for:racing(or in case of being kicked not-racing).

And if the host can’t kick wreckers, you’ll be robbed of a good race car more frequently.

bmanic
02-12-2017, 19:52
At least on PC platform I've had mainly good races.. down to luck maybe? Yeah a few bad apples but definitely 80 to 90% of the races have been good. Most of them not much of a challenge as so many people are clearly not all that good at the game but at least most people have been really respectful and not crashing other people on purpose.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 19:58
And if the host canít kick wreckers, youíll be robbed of a good race car more frequently.
I'm not asking for it to be removed, but also rated. So bad hosts can't pull these tricks anymore. One negative doesn't cancel out the other, let's get rid of both.

bradleyland
02-12-2017, 20:38
I'm not asking for it to be removed, but also rated. So bad hosts can't pull these tricks anymore. One negative doesn't cancel out the other, let's get rid of both.

How do you determine who is a bad host? I kicked tons of people last night. Everyone of them was disrupting the lobby. How would I be rated under your proposed system?

Any system that could differentiate between a bad host and a good host could moderate the lobby on its own. You can't rely on software, because machine learning just isn't there yet, and you can't rely on social (voting, trust, etc) systems, because people don't use them. Otherwise, AC's online multiplayer wouldn't have the problems it has.

The solution is to simply run your own lobbies if you don't like the way someone else runs theirs. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

MaximusN
02-12-2017, 21:14
How do you determine who is a bad host? I kicked tons of people last night. Everyone of them was disrupting the lobby. How would I be rated under your proposed system?

Collisions are already being detected. If a host decides to kick a leader near the end of the race and he doesn't have any collisions, that should be recorded. And if it happens too many times with a particular host he should lose kick-priviliges temprorarily. Or factor in other things.

It's a privilige that some people just don't deserve. And having the community keep personal list of blacklist hosts is just not a workable solution

Minimitch
02-12-2017, 22:42
There should be a way of reporting hosts such as this, if you kick someone because they're leading and that person has reported it (posting evidence such as this video) and the host is guilty, he/she gets a warning, happens again, lose hosting privaleges for a week, a third time lose them for a month, 4th time lose them for good

snipeme77
02-12-2017, 22:49
Collisions are already being detected. If a host decides to kick a leader near the end of the race and he doesn't have any collisions, that should be recorded. And if it happens too many times with a particular host he should lose kick-priviliges temprorarily. Or factor in other things.

It's a privilige that some people just don't deserve. And having the community keep personal list of blacklist hosts is just not a workable solution

It could all be solved if SMS would provide community races like GT Sport and Iracing. Having a racing license in a game in is a fantastic idea, as long as you don't give people the chance to artificially manipulate it. Having hosts that kick you from races when you beat him is one example... Personally, I can't wait for the custom championships, because to inject someone from the race should also ban them from the championship as well. If the host start kicking people because he's losing, then soon he won't have anyone left to race with.

bradleyland
03-12-2017, 02:45
Collisions are already being detected. If a host decides to kick a leader near the end of the race and he doesn't have any collisions, that should be recorded. And if it happens too many times with a particular host he should lose kick-priviliges temprorarily. Or factor in other things.

It's a privilige that some people just don't deserve. And having the community keep personal list of blacklist hosts is just not a workable solution

OK, so what about the guy who parks his car on the track, but everyone in the lobby is smart enough to drive around him? As a host, should I be penalized for kicking them? What if they just drive around slowly, constantly causing an obstruction? Should I be penalized for kicking that person?

You're never going to solve this with if/then style conditions. The situations are too numerous, and too nuanced.

It's not a "privilege"; it's simply part of running a lobby. There's nothing stopping you from running your own.

snakehands
03-12-2017, 05:59
Okay, here's the full video.

Things that could be of importance:
- Cockpit view was forced. (I usually switch to Roof for better overview, if l feel a car has a bad view, which this Ligier had).

- We only did a 15-minute qualy to this, in which l took pole by 2.5 seconds.

- l'm new to racing with a wheel, bought it with this game's release. Thats why l'm still not always convinced when to pass and when not to. But l always try to stay clean.

- l know what part of the video you will point out. It was my fault, should've braked earlier, but he was really, unexpectedly slow at many parts of the track. AND l let him stay in front, as l knew it was mostly my fault.


http://youtu.be/zj6NMgkUlBo


PS: How do l implement the link so it shows the video straight away?

No wonder you were kicked.

MaximusN
03-12-2017, 09:10
OK, so what about the guy who parks his car on the track, but everyone in the lobby is smart enough to drive around him? As a host, should I be penalized for kicking them? What if they just drive around slowly, constantly causing an obstruction? Should I be penalized for kicking that person?

You're never going to solve this with if/then style conditions. The situations are too numerous, and too nuanced.

It's not a "privilege"; it's simply part of running a lobby. There's nothing stopping you from running your own.

He would hardly ever be in the top 3 with that behavior and even then it would be detectable quite easily. If I'm honest I'd say people driving unnecessarily slow deserve a safety infraction more than someone who goes off-track (to avoid?) and rejoins neatly anyway. That and it would be a rating, so it would take (quite) a few of seemingly unwanted kicks before you'd lose your privilege temporarily. It wouldn't be that hard to only trigger in such specific conditions, that you would never once trigger it.

And apart from that everybody running their own lobby is not a solution ;) And on top of that I think I'd be fine in racing in yours(if I were on a PS4), like most lobbies. It's not knowing who is running it(most are hand-me-downs anyway) and if he might win-kick you that is a(little, I have to agree) problem.

Jaood
03-12-2017, 09:36
No wonder you were kicked.
:confused:
See first incident alone, shouldnt be kicked. The host derpd out again and cheated.

Bradleyland actually in AC every admin can kick instantly. Not every lobby has one though, some have multiple.

Cant say its a problem so far for me. Sucks yeah but when it happens so rarely just a part the system.

snakehands
03-12-2017, 09:45
:confused:
See first incident alone, shouldnt be kicked. The host derpd out again and cheated.
.

That move at 2:20 was rubbish and set the tone.

Mad Al
03-12-2017, 09:50
Okay, here's the full video.

Things that could be of importance:
- Cockpit view was forced. (I usually switch to Roof for better overview, if l feel a car has a bad view, which this Ligier had).

- We only did a 15-minute qualy to this, in which l took pole by 2.5 seconds.

- l'm new to racing with a wheel, bought it with this game's release. Thats why l'm still not always convinced when to pass and when not to. But l always try to stay clean.

- l know what part of the video you will point out. It was my fault, should've braked earlier, but he was really, unexpectedly slow at many parts of the track. AND l let him stay in front, as l knew it was mostly my fault.


http://youtu.be/zj6NMgkUlBo

PS: How do l implement the link so it shows the video straight away?

OK, I'll ask the blindingly obvious..

Why no HUD mirror - it now works and stays on properly, so no excuse for not using it
Why no proximity markers
Why no Spotter

Why at 2:20 didn't you back out as you were always going to go off track and end up having a collision?
As for the last lap.. you had 10 seconds over second, why the rush to pass a back marker and why go to the outside when he was obviously going that way (he was always going to be where he was when you hit him)

Should the host have kicked you, no...
Should you use all the tools available to help you not have accidents, yes
Should you learn to anticipate what's happening ahead of you better, yes

as the saying goes, more haste, less speed

snakehands
03-12-2017, 10:04
OK, I'll ask the blindingly obvious..

Why no HUD mirror - it now works and stays on properly, so no excuse for not using it
Why no proximity markers
Why no Spotter

Why at 2:20 didn't you back out as you were always going to go off track and end up having a collision?
As for the last lap.. you had 10 seconds over second, why the rush to pass a back marker and why go to the outside when he was obviously going that way (he was always going to be where he was when you hit him)

Should the host have kicked you, no...
Should you use all the tools available to help you not have accidents, yes
Should you learn to anticipate what's happening ahead of you better, yes

as the saying goes, more haste, less speed

The very fact he was kicked has initiated a potential learning process. He came here playing the innocent, don’t forget.

MaximusN
03-12-2017, 10:10
The very fact he was kicked has initiated a potential learning process. He came here playing the innocent, donít forget.
Be that as it may it's pretty suspect it happens a few hundred meters from the race finish... But the driving was not very neat at times, agreed.

cpcdem
03-12-2017, 12:40
It wasn't neat at times, but the OP had the courtesy to stop after the accident he caused at 2:20 and let the host move first and stay in front. There are so many other people who cause an accident and then simply take advantage of it, so for me, fair play to the OP. Apart from that, he did not cause any other problem to the host, so the kick was completely unfair, especially since it was done in the last lap, when the host was completely out of the fight. The crash with the backmarker IMO was indeed entirely the OP's fault (backmarker was obviously a newcomer to game, a lap behind so already, so it was obvious that a lot more care was needed there), but had nothing to do with the kick...

bradleyland
03-12-2017, 14:47
:confused:
See first incident alone, shouldnt be kicked. The host derpd out again and cheated.

Bradleyland actually in AC every admin can kick instantly. Not every lobby has one though, some have multiple.

Cant say its a problem so far for me. Sucks yeah but when it happens so rarely just a part the system.

Sorry, I should be clear that I'm referring to AC on consoles. The console version of AC uses a different MP server system than any other game I've played. When you start a lobby, it actually starts a dedicated server (not peer-to-peer), and puts it in the server list. However, you don't get any host privileges. It's strictly vote-based.

AC on consoles is an entirely different world. It's been pretty bad lately, with 80% of servers being drift/cruise/drag/trackday, and only a handful of actual races.

bradleyland
03-12-2017, 14:49
He would hardly ever be in the top 3 with that behavior and even then it would be detectable quite easily. If I'm honest I'd say people driving unnecessarily slow deserve a safety infraction more than someone who goes off-track (to avoid?) and rejoins neatly anyway. That and it would be a rating, so it would take (quite) a few of seemingly unwanted kicks before you'd lose your privilege temporarily. It wouldn't be that hard to only trigger in such specific conditions, that you would never once trigger it.

And apart from that everybody running their own lobby is not a solution ;) And on top of that I think I'd be fine in racing in yours(if I were on a PS4), like most lobbies. It's not knowing who is running it(most are hand-me-downs anyway) and if he might win-kick you that is a(little, I have to agree) problem.

Agree to disagree. I have never been kicked from a lobby, but I have kicked many players. Any restriction on our ability to kick players would be a detriment to our ability to run clean lobbies, and clean lobbies are what make PC2 multi-player great.

balderz002
03-12-2017, 15:39
All this he-he-he. You guys should watch the first video again to get the op's gamer tag. Or just check her sig?

ECAR_Tracks
03-12-2017, 18:06
Open servers is a waste of time as the current offline AI so you can engage with a organized league or keep doing hot laps alone. Assetto Corsa memories.

Pink_650S
03-12-2017, 18:46
OK, I'll ask the blindingly obvious..

Why no HUD mirror - it now works and stays on properly, so no excuse for not using it
A: PS4 hasnt received Patch 3, know your facts, please.

Why no proximity markers
A: Because they break the immersion for me, as they are too videogame-y.

Why no Spotter
A: Last time l checked LMP3's didnt have spotters. Also, the spotter is very annoying and distracting imo.

Why at 2:20 didn't you back out as you were always going to go off track and end up having a collision?
A: l explained this pretty well already, l think.

As for the last lap.. you had 10 seconds over second, why the rush to pass a back marker and why go to the outside when he was obviously going that way (he was always going to be where he was when you hit him)
A: I was going at my normal race speed. Since when does the leader have to slow down when there's someone to lap? The backmarker should be aware of the fact that someone quicker arrives and then NOT block the racing line.

Should the host have kicked you, no...
Should you use all the tools available to help you not have accidents, yes
Should you learn to anticipate what's happening ahead of you better, yes
Sorry, but l cant perfectly anticipate a guy who is randomly slow at random parts of the track. Please show me how its done.

as the saying goes, more haste, less speed

3 letters.

Mad Al
03-12-2017, 18:57
3 letters.

Even pre patch 3, you are still able to turn on the hud mirror, yes a pain in the arse to remember every time before pressing ready to have to go, options, edit hud..

No, you as the overtaking person are responsible for doing so safely.. and relative speed of you vs the person you are overtaking is irrelevant.

I could see what was going to happen way before it did.. maybe close to 40 years of riding motorcycles gives people a sixth sense.. but that was entirely predictable.

Honestly, you refuse to use proximity markers and the spotter due to them not being realistic then say you normally race in roof cam.... sorry but the spotter and indicators were added for this exact reason, to avoid accidents due to the relatively crap view afforded by a monitor in a sim compared to real life.. use them, they are there to HELP YOU.

I just hope you don't drive with that poor anticipation on public roads..

snakehands
03-12-2017, 18:59
3 letters.

The slower car should stay on their normal line when being lapped. When lapping a slower car it’s the faster driver’s responsibility to execute a safe pass. You should have anticipated the slower car braking earlier and taken a different line and/or timed your move with more care.

You can either learn from this and go away with improved racecraft, or pretend that you’re completely blameless. What you gonna do?

Pink_650S
03-12-2017, 19:19
I just hope you don't drive with that poor anticipation on public roads..

Ouch!

Pink_650S
03-12-2017, 19:22
The slower car should stay on their normal line when being lapped. When lapping a slower car itís the faster driverís responsibility to execute a safe pass. You should have anticipated the slower car braking earlier and taken a different line and/or timed your move with more care.

You can either learn from this and go away with improved racecraft, or pretend that youíre completely blameless. What you gonna do?

Did we watch the same video?
The backmarker went from entirely left all the way to the right where the racing line is. How do you expect me to anticipate such a behaviour?

ELAhrairah
03-12-2017, 19:24
The slower car should stay on their normal line when being lapped. When lapping a slower car it’s the faster driver’s responsibility to execute a safe pass. You should have anticipated the slower car braking earlier and taken a different line and/or timed your move with more care.

You can either learn from this and go away with improved racecraft, or pretend that you’re completely blameless. What you gonna do?

Op did not come here and placed a post to be lectured how she did not drive the perfect race. Who is the expert in the best clean races, is that person here? No. Everybody makes mistakes.
Op posted because she was unrightfully kicked a few hundred meters before the end of the race because some sore loser couldn't handle it.
Stick to point of the matter please: What do we do with hosts who show this type of very Unsportsmanlike conduct?

Mahjik
03-12-2017, 19:35
Stick to point of the matter please: What do we do with hosts who show this type of very Unsportsmanlike conduct?

SMS is aware of what's going on. The simple (quick) solution is to not run races with hosts you don't know. That may be harder to do in the short term, but typically people will end up finding common racers racing at the same time of day as themselves (happens in iRacing as well).

mister dog
03-12-2017, 19:37
SMS is aware of what's going on. The simple (quick) solution is to not run races with hosts you don't know. That may be harder to do in the short term, but typically people will end up finding common racers racing at the same time of day as themselves (happens in iRacing as well).

This idea:


We need a personal blacklist so we can get rid of bad hosts ourselves.

Just introduce the ability for people to tag an online opponent for themselves, which would change the letters of his username to red. Next time the user loads up an online session he can immediately see who he's dealing with.

Mahjik
03-12-2017, 19:41
Just introduce the ability for people to tag an online opponent for themselves, which would change the letters of his username to red. Next time the user loads up an online session he can immediately see who he's dealing with.

Nope.. Just like the kicking today, it would be abused by people ganging up on others. All it takes is a group of friends to dislike someone and start tagging people for no real reason.

mister dog
03-12-2017, 19:45
Nope.. Just like the kicking today, it would be abused by people ganging up on others. All it takes is a group of friends to dislike someone and start tagging people for no real reason.
Only for personal reference I mean, it doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the tagged person ingame?

ELAhrairah
03-12-2017, 19:56
Only for personal reference I mean, it doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the tagged person ingame?

I bet the Op will never forget the person who kicked her ;).
But your idea seems right but I'm affraid that with the update work on other stuff this is not on the top of their list... Which I understand.

Mahjik
03-12-2017, 20:04
Only for personal reference I mean, it doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the tagged person ingame?

To be fair, everyone can do that on their own. Not saying the suggestion doesn't have merit, but for those that want they can already do this without SMS spending resources on it.

MaximusN
03-12-2017, 20:17
I must be the only one who doesn't memorize a blacklist. I'm fine with numbers, but names(which can be changed in Steam) which sometimes only differ by a character is not going to work for me. I'll just take my chances being kicked then. :)

CoproManiac
03-12-2017, 20:27
I must be the only one who doesn't memorize a blacklist. I'm fine with numbers, but names(which can be changed in Steam) which sometimes only differ by a character is not going to work for me. I'll just take my chances being kicked then. :)

You're not the only one, I can't remember names either lol. Most of the time I don't even know who the host is.

mister dog
03-12-2017, 20:43
I bet the Op will never forget the person who kicked her ;).
But your idea seems right but I'm affraid that with the update work on other stuff this is not on the top of their list... Which I understand.
True, would only consist in coding in a new button and making sure the game remembers the red color for you so it would be a simple and effective solution I reckon. I've seen a lot of people complaining already about this unsportsmanlike behavior from hosts over the forums, so it happens often sadly.

gazg1986
03-12-2017, 22:50
Had the same thing happen to me tonight with the same host as in that video. A name that pops up alot as host on public lobbies on ps4. The guy was running 2nd going into the final turn on sugo, got his nose alongside the leader going on to the straight and performed a pit manoeuvre on him. Took himself out in the process of doing it. He then let the race run till the final lap with myself in a comfortable lead and kicked me. Can't understand these people. Shows what a joke the competitve licence is when the guy is running s1400 and something. Turns out the guy is also part of a few clean communities and leagues ��...unbelievable

bradleyland
03-12-2017, 22:55
I've raced with Twiggy quite a bit. He tries very hard to run clean lobbies, and will listen to the group of everyone says another driver isn't racing clean. I have another group that I race with more frequently, because Twiggy's group can be overzealous at times. My recommendation would be one of two things:

1) If you're in a lobby with Twiggy, see if you can join his party. He's a super nice guy, and being part of his group can get you a lot of friends who are clean racers.

2) If you start a dialogue with him about what's happened in a lobby, he's usually a pretty reasonable guy. You just can't start your message with "OMG WHY YOU KICK ME YOU JERK!?" Just send a sensible message that says you're sorry for the contact and that you'd like to race with them.

I've raced with Twiggy enough to say confidently that he'll be reasonable.

gazg1986
03-12-2017, 23:08
I've raced with Twiggy quite a bit. He tries very hard to run clean lobbies, and will listen to the group of everyone says another driver isn't racing clean. I have another group that I race with more frequently, because Twiggy's group can be overzealous at times. My recommendation would be one of two things:

1) If you're in a lobby with Twiggy, see if you can join his party. He's a super nice guy, and being part of his group can get you a lot of friends who are clean racers.

2) If you start a dialogue with him about what's happened in a lobby, he's usually a pretty reasonable guy. You just can't start your message with "OMG WHY YOU KICK ME YOU JERK!?" Just send a sensible message that says you're sorry for the contact and that you'd like to race with them.

I've raced with Twiggy enough to say confidently that he'll be reasonable.

I have sent him a simple "why have u kicked me" message. I think he has messages blocked so I have sent him a friend request. To be honest their is no excuse for his actions and it obviously isn't a 1off. If you ruin your own race or even someone else takes you out, you can't just go kicking the leader of the race like a spoiled brat

bradleyland
03-12-2017, 23:46
Well, FWIW, I've spent a fair amount of time in a party with him. He's a genuinely nice guy, so I'd just caution anyone from assuming malice here. If you're getting kicked from his lobby, it's for a reason. You may not like that reason, but some people prefer to run "gentlemen" lobbies; they don't care to race with people who race "elbow's out".

The big disappointment is that this currently (until the patch hits) affects your rank. I can't stress enough the importance of finding a group of friends to race with, just like Mahjik has suggested. I'm not saying you have to join a league, but having a solid friend list means you can get a lobby started. It seriously only takes 3-4 people and a popular car/track combo. Then you'll be running your own lobby and you can run it how you like.

gazg1986
03-12-2017, 23:59
Well, FWIW, I've spent a fair amount of time in a party with him. He's a genuinely nice guy, so I'd just caution anyone from assuming malice here. If you're getting kicked from his lobby, it's for a reason. You may not like that reason, but some people prefer to run "gentlemen" lobbies; they don't care to race with people who race "elbow's out".

The big disappointment is that this currently (until the patch hits) affects your rank. I can't stress enough the importance of finding a group of friends to race with, just like Mahjik has suggested. I'm not saying you have to join a league, but having a solid friend list means you can get a lobby started. It seriously only takes 3-4 people and a popular car/track combo. Then you'll be running your own lobby and you can run it how you like.

I have raced in plenty of leagues so have plenty of clean friends. My point is if someone is just wanting to join a public lobby for a quick race then the host can't just start kicking people because things aren't going his way. By all means kick someone if they have just blatantly taken you out but as I said in my 1st post I wasn't even involved with the guy. He had an issue with another player and I inherited the race lead while he slipped down the order. Wasn't even as though he kicked me straight away either, he waited until the last lap. Would love to know his reasons. Gentlemans lobby looks awfully more like petulant kid lobby to me. May be a nice guy as you say but behaviour like that from a grown man is pathetic.

sbtm
04-12-2017, 00:04
I've raced with Twiggy quite a bit. He tries very hard to run clean lobbies, and will listen to the group of everyone says another driver isn't racing clean. I have another group that I race with more frequently, because Twiggy's group can be overzealous at times. My recommendation would be one of two things:

1) If you're in a lobby with Twiggy, see if you can join his party. He's a super nice guy, and being part of his group can get you a lot of friends who are clean racers.

2) If you start a dialogue with him about what's happened in a lobby, he's usually a pretty reasonable guy. You just can't start your message with "OMG WHY YOU KICK ME YOU JERK!?" Just send a sensible message that says you're sorry for the contact and that you'd like to race with them.

I've raced with Twiggy enough to say confidently that he'll be reasonable.

everybody has a dark secret.. I guess we just discovered Twiggy's... he kicks innocent race leaders ... :rolleyes:

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 00:19
I have raced in plenty of leagues so have plenty of clean friends. My point is if someone is just wanting to join a public lobby for a quick race then the host can't just start kicking people because things aren't going his way. By all means kick someone if they have just blatantly taken you out but as I said in my 1st post I wasn't even involved with the guy. He had an issue with another player and I inherited the race lead while he slipped down the order. Wasn't even as though he kicked me straight away either, he waited until the last lap. Would love to know his reasons. Gentlemans lobby looks awfully more like petulant kid lobby to me. May be a nice guy as you say but behaviour like that from a grown man is pathetic.

Just please consider that in every interaction, there are two sides to the story. I don't agree with every kick, obviously. Like I said, I race with a different group, because Twiggy's group tends to overreact to questionable driving. Again, that's just my opinion. I still think Twiggy is a really nice guy, and if you spent some time with him in a party chat, I think you'd leave with the same impression.

I'm just asking you to keep an open mind that there was probably a reason he kicked you (or anyone else for that matter). You may not agree with it, but I've never been in a lobby with him where he's kicked someone just because they were leading. Not even once.

gazg1986
04-12-2017, 00:31
Just please consider that in every interaction, there are two sides to the story. I don't agree with every kick, obviously. Like I said, I race with a different group, because Twiggy's group tends to overreact to questionable driving. Again, that's just my opinion. I still think Twiggy is a really nice guy, and if you spent some time with him in a party chat, I think you'd leave with the same impression.

I'm just asking you to keep an open mind that there was probably a reason he kicked you (or anyone else for that matter). You may not agree with it, but I've never been in a lobby with him where he's kicked someone just because they were leading. Not even once.
Wish I recorded to show you how bad it was. Nobody should have to go into a party to speak to him to find out if he's a nice guy or not. Everyone just wants to race clean and fair. He sets up public lobbies so he obviously isn't picky about who joins the lobby. If things start to go wrong for him he shouldn't take it out on the rest of the lobby especially when he knows that the ranking system is in place. He may not kick any of his buddies but it's clear that he has no regard for anyone else. Maybe he should stick to racing with his "clean" friends instead of wasting other unsuspecting racers time. I'll look forward to seeing if he answers my friend request and gives a reason for his actions

iamisti
04-12-2017, 05:32
I like how SMS is so silent on this thread. :) Not even one post from any SMS member.

Personally, saying that 'only join servers that you know' is a poor suggestion. First of all because that's the point of online racing (being able to join to any session), and secondly then everyone would need to pay the price of 'getting to know a server', meaning that those hosts who like to kick people in front will never be punished and a lot of people's score will be affected joining to his online sessions for the first/second time.
Black listing doesn't really solve the problem. We'd end up with less and less hosted sessions. SMS needs to teach those guys not doing what they are doing. Exploits were always used as an advantage, and even it's not nice to do, but people do that. Happened with me too.

It would be overly simple just introducing some restrictions not being able to do that:
- rule that makes impossible to kick someone if he didn't have any accidents
- penalty system will recognize the multiple cases when host kicks out somebody in front of him

Or anything but forget about black listing hosts, it's a no-way for me. I don't want to pay the price of joining one server that I don't know and then being kicked out at front... no thanks. I want penalty system for them to be fixed, or something that makes them stop doing what they are doing.

snakehands
04-12-2017, 06:43
Did we watch the same video?
The backmarker went from entirely left all the way to the right where the racing line is. How do you expect me to anticipate such a behaviour?

Itís a left turn so of course he will go right to follow his normal racing line. It was your responsibility to pass safely, he was following the normal racing line, so of course it was your fault. Like I said, you learn from this or not, itís up to you.

snakehands
04-12-2017, 06:46
Op did not come here and placed a post to be lectured how she did not drive the perfect race. Who is the expert in the best clean races, is that person here? No. Everybody makes mistakes.
Op posted because she was unrightfully kicked a few hundred meters before the end of the race because some sore loser couldn't handle it.
Stick to point of the matter please: What do we do with hosts who show this type of very Unsportsmanlike conduct?

Nonsense, the OP had a case to answer after accusing the host of unfair kicking and blocking.

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 07:23
Nonsense, the OP had a case to answer after accusing the host of unfair kicking and blocking.

Wait, whut? The accusation stands. It were different if she was kicked right after one of the minor incidents. But that clearly isn't the case. The best I can think of is that he waited until the end to teach the other a lesson. And that's the best I can think of....

snakehands
04-12-2017, 07:29
Wait, whut? The accusation stands. It were different if she was kicked right after one of the minor incidents. But that clearly isn't the case. The best I can think of is that he waited until the end to teach the other a lesson. And that's the best I can think of....


Well, the move at 2:20 was worthy of a kick on its own, IMO.

Sankyo
04-12-2017, 07:46
It would be overly simple just introducing some restrictions not being able to do that:
You mean 'overly simple to write down a few ideas without thinking them through properly' ;)


- rule that makes impossible to kick someone if he didn't have any accidents
How about someone driving very slowly and weaving, without crashing into people, but ruining the race nonetheless? The serious people will try to avoid the guy, maybe even resulting in those people to crash and not the bad guy, so there may be no collisions for the 'wrecker' but a ruined race for all the others for sure. There are many ways to ruin a race. Even a ruined start for a couple of drivers by overly weaving and slowing down is enough to ruin the complete race for them.


- penalty system will recognize the multiple cases when host kicks out somebody in front of him

And how will the system recognize whether the host was kicking for a good reason (maybe the guy in front was spamming the (voice) chat with nonsense, or showing unsportsmanlike behaviour) or out of jealousy or other selfish reasons?

maxx69
04-12-2017, 07:56
Fun fact, l was invited by Rodgerz to join YOUR group :D

Feel free to come and join , loads planned , clean racing guaranteed and lashings of delicious banter in a friendly atmosphere :eagerness:

ZulfoDK
04-12-2017, 08:48
I hate when this happens.

Had a race at Monza last night. Got pushed off in the first chicane, but fought my way back to P4 over 7 laps - in the last lap of 8, P3 (The host) spins out and suddenly I see P2 disappear... I'm thinking "hey... I'm P2 now... wtf..." and moments after I get a "you have been removed from the session"....

Bloody bad loosers..

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 08:57
Well, the move at 2:20 was worthy of a kick on its own, IMO.

Without going into discussion if it is, the kick should have been done early in the race going by that reasoning.

The whole reason to kick should be to prevent more harm. Please tell me how much harm she could have caused in de last few feet to the finish line in a winning position with no one even near? I repeat the best reason I think of for doing that is to grief the person for the earlier incident, but this really walks and quacks like a duck to me.

Pink_650S
04-12-2017, 11:44
I have sent him a simple "why have u kicked me" message. I think he has messages blocked so I have sent him a friend request. To be honest their is no excuse for his actions and it obviously isn't a 1off. If you ruin your own race or even someone else takes you out, you can't just go kicking the leader of the race like a spoiled brat

Hmmm, l wonder why he has messages blocked...

Pink_650S
04-12-2017, 11:50
Well, FWIW, I've spent a fair amount of time in a party with him. He's a genuinely nice guy, so I'd just caution anyone from assuming malice here. If you're getting kicked from his lobby, it's for a reason. You may not like that reason, but some people prefer to run "gentlemen" lobbies; they don't care to race with people who race "elbow's out".

Okay, yea, because kicking someone on the verge of winning is so gentleman-like?
Kick me after the incident, okay, harsh, but it wouldnt piss me off nearly as much.

One more thing. You can tell your friend not to run Cockpit View forced lobbies when he's clearly not comfortable with it himself. He was slow and had no clear racing line, so that he was a hazard too.



Well, the move at 2:20 was worthy of a kick on its own, IMO.

Then kick me right then and there, not 4 laps later when l'm about to win.
Are you really that close-minded that you dont understand the initial point of this thread? Because it seems everyone else gets it.

iamisti
04-12-2017, 12:02
You mean 'overly simple to write down a few ideas without thinking them through properly' ;)


How about someone driving very slowly and weaving, without crashing into people, but ruining the race nonetheless? The serious people will try to avoid the guy, maybe even resulting in those people to crash and not the bad guy, so there may be no collisions for the 'wrecker' but a ruined race for all the others for sure. There are many ways to ruin a race. Even a ruined start for a couple of drivers by overly weaving and slowing down is enough to ruin the complete race for them.


And how will the system recognize whether the host was kicking for a good reason (maybe the guy in front was spamming the (voice) chat with nonsense, or showing unsportsmanlike behaviour) or out of jealousy or other selfish reasons?

You must be kidding lol

snakehands
04-12-2017, 12:29
Okay, yea, because kicking someone on the verge of winning is so gentleman-like?
Kick me after the incident, okay, harsh, but it wouldnt piss me off nearly as much.

One more thing. You can tell your friend not to run Cockpit View forced lobbies when he's clearly not comfortable with it himself. He was slow and had no clear racing line, so that he was a hazard too.




Then kick me right then and there, not 4 laps later when l'm about to win.
Are you really that close-minded that you dont understand the initial point of this thread? Because it seems everyone else gets it.

He was slow because he was defending. Defending like he did is perfectly fair. Your problem is that you seem unable to accept any criticism yourself. Had you not been involved in those two incidents then fine, it would have been totally unfair, but as it is justice was done, IMO.

Pink_650S
04-12-2017, 12:31
He was slow because he was defending. Defending like he did is perfectly fair. Your problem is that you seem unable to accept any criticism yourself. Had you not been involved in those two incidents then fine, it would have been totally unfair, but as it is justice was done, IMO.

I actually admitted multiple times that it was my fault, but you keep assuming what you will :)

snakehands
04-12-2017, 12:37
I actually admitted multiple times that it was my fault, but you keep assuming what you will :)

As of 21:30 CET yesterday you were still blaming the backmarker.

ZulfoDK
04-12-2017, 12:37
He was slow because he was defending. Defending like he did is perfectly fair. Your problem is that you seem unable to accept any criticism yourself. Had you not been involved in those two incidents then fine, it would have been totally unfair, but as it is justice was done, IMO.

With that logic, he should have kicked him self after the incident at 4:30 - yes OP went off the track, but so did he - and then he ram her...

Minimitch
04-12-2017, 12:42
He might be a nice guy in reality but there is no excuse for what he did. If he wasn't happy with the incident at 2:20 then kick her then, don't wait until she is about to win to do it like a pathetic, petulant child

cpcdem
04-12-2017, 13:16
Guys, remember that she did wait properly for him to get back on track and stay ahead after that incident that she caused. Regarding host kicking, I think this was implemented (in pC1) because otherwise it would be impossible to kick someone who is reckless during the race, since it's not practical for 10 other people to go to lobby mode and vote-kick him, is that right? In AC I think they have implemented this really nicely, someone (not sure if it must be the host) can initiate a kick request and then people are just required to press just a Y/N key, at any point they can during racing, if he gets enough votes, the guy is kicked. I'd think this is not difficult to be implemented, just require 30% or so votes (with just a key press) to kick someone out, instead if leaving it to a single person to judge it, in the heat of the battle..

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 13:52
Then kick me right then and there, not 4 laps later when l'm about to win.
Are you really that close-minded that you dont understand the initial point of this thread? Because it seems everyone else gets it.

I get it. It's frustrating, and I've been on the other side of issues where I felt like I was getting the shaft. And like I said, I don't race with Twiggy as much, because he tends to be a bit overzealous when it comes to kicks. Your move at 2:20 wasn't the best choice, but everybody makes mistakes. You didn't dive bomb him, and he closed is racing line into you. I question whether you'd have been able to hold your tight line there, but ultimately, I'd deem that one a racing incident.

When we run our lobbies, we don't kick during the race. We watch racers closely during qualifying and try to kick them then if we think they're going to be a problem. My opinion is that you have to be egregiously crashing people in order to get kicked from the actual race. But that's just my opinion. Everyone has their own views, as you can see by the thread.

The problem we face is that if you take away the host's ability to kick players, then you end up with the worst of both worlds. Players who are frustrated and have no other recourse will lash out. We see it in MP lobbies all the time. You can't rely on vote-kick, because players are frequently idle, or refuse to vote. Then you're stuck in lobbies with people who will ruin race after race, just because they can't get their way. It's a lose-lose situation. If you question whether this is true, I'd really encourage you to pick up a copy of Assetto Corsa and try the online MP. The only way I can get a clean race there (on PS4) is in a private lobby.

IMO, the better of the two options is to retain host-kick privileges, while mitigating the damage they can do to your score. This requires the acknowledgement that sometimes you're going to encounter a bad host.

All I'm asking is that you look at it from the other perspective as well. I've taken the time to see it from your perspective, and I think we agree on a lot.

cpcdem
04-12-2017, 15:57
I'd really encourage you to pick up a copy of Assetto Corsa and try the online MP. The only way I can get a clean race there (on PS4) is in a private lobby.

I think the problem in AC is that even if you kick a player (which is easy as I said, just a few people must agree and press a key) who causes havoc (very often on purpose), he can then simply join back in after he is kicked! You kick him again, he comes back etc, at least this is how it is (was) in the PC, making kicking almost useless in practice, so people stopped bothering I think. Ah, and in AC you can also join races that have already started, so an angry kicked troll has endless possibilities to troll back :). In Project Cars, once kicked, someone can't reenter the server again, so it should not be a problem.

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 16:58
IMO, the better of the two options is to retain host-kick privileges, while mitigating the damage they can do to your score.
It's not about that stupid little number! People invest time to have a fun experience and have that turned into a frustrating moment by someone clearly not responsible enough to have that power(just like the host from the video). It could very well be at the end of a 30 lap race, how would you feel?

You keep defending it because you want to keep the host kick function. I get that, but please let us all find a solution to this very obvious flaw. It's replaced one kind of griefing with another(IMHO more malicious in form.)

snakehands
04-12-2017, 17:03
It's not about that stupid little number! People invest time to have a fun experience and have that turned into a frustrating moment by someone clearly not responsible enough to have that power. It could very well be at the end of a 30 lap race, how would you feel?

Bad, but that's the lesser of two evils.

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 17:05
Bad, but that's the lesser of two evils.

Best laugh of the day, thanks!

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 17:22
I think the problem in AC is that even if you kick a player (which is easy as I said, just a few people must agree and press a key) who causes havoc (very often on purpose), he can then simply join back in after he is kicked! You kick him again, he comes back etc, at least this is how it is (was) in the PC, making kicking almost useless in practice, so people stopped bothering I think. Ah, and in AC you can also join races that have already started, so an angry kicked troll has endless possibilities to troll back :). In Project Cars, once kicked, someone can't reenter the server again, so it should not be a problem.

While I appreciate what you're saying, consoles are entirely different than PC. For example, you can't rejoin after a kick on consoles. You also cannot join a race in progress. Completely different multiplayer.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone kicked from a session in AC on consoles. It just never happens.

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 17:24
It's not about that stupid little number! People invest time to have a fun experience and have that turned into a frustrating moment by someone clearly not responsible enough to have that power(just like the host from the video). It could very well be at the end of a 30 lap race, how would you feel?

You keep defending it because you want to keep the host kick function. I get that, but please let us all find a solution to this very obvious flaw. It's replaced one kind of griefing with another(IMHO more malicious in form.)

Go ahead and propose a solution. So far, every solution has massive holes.

cpcdem
04-12-2017, 18:10
While I appreciate what you're saying, consoles are entirely different than PC. For example, you can't rejoin after a kick on consoles. You also cannot join a race in progress. Completely different multiplayer.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone kicked from a session in AC on consoles. It just never happens.

Ah, OK, thanks for correcting me, didn't know that!

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 18:19
Go ahead and propose a solution. So far, every solution has massive holes.
Do they? Of course there's more things you can factor in, but it wouldn't be that hard to notice a pattern(kicking specifically racers in the top 3 when way out in front at the end of the race f.i.) And I never said that you'd lose kickpowers instantly, it just raises a counter and if it's too high, you can't kick (maybe even specifically people(way out) in front at the end of the race) for a certain period.

Or do it with power of numbers.

If in 50 races or more a person has never been kicked he is probably not a person causing much grief
If in 51 hostings a hoster has more than 5 times kicked a non griefer who is in the top 3 he is probably abusing his powers.

And the numbers could be anything.

Basically you could use numbers to mark a 'saint' racer and a 'saint' host. A host that seems fair(saint) can kick anyone even if he is deemed a saint, but that will count against him(you need to keep above a level of 'minimal saintness' to be able to kick saints. If you drop below that you can only kick people who have been kicked a little more often, and so on. Basically racers and hosts have a kick level and a host can never kick someone above his level.

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 19:12
Do they? Of course there's more things you can factor in, but it wouldn't be that hard to notice a pattern(kicking specifically racers in the top 3 when way out in front at the end of the race f.i.) And I never said that you'd lose kickpowers instantly, it just raises a counter and if it's too high, you can't kick (maybe even specifically people(way out) in front at the end of the race) for a certain period.

A player's position when can't be used as a factor to identify abusive hosts, because it's not unusual to kick someone who races dirty as a means to make their way to the front of the grid. That is exactly the kind of behavior we kick for. For example, the kind of racer who routinely uses the outside car as a bump stop. Once you've established your safety rank, you can get away with quite a bit of contact, so long as it's not severe.


Or do it with power of numbers.

If in 50 races or more a person has never been kicked he is probably not a person causing much grief
If in 51 hostings a hoster has more than 5 times kicked a non griefer who is in the top 3 he is probably abusing his powers.

And the numbers could be anything.

The entire point of this thread is that some hosts will kick fast racers, so statistically, someone who is fast might be kicked more often. However, they are not a griefer.

Another problem with using statistical distributions is that groups tend to "nominate" lobby hosts. When our group races, there's one guy who usually runs the lobby. That guy is going to accumulate "host kicks" way faster than the rest of us. This creates a false signal. He's not an abusive host, he's simply the person who runs the lobby most frequently.


Basically you could use numbers to mark a 'saint' racer and a 'saint' host. A host that seems fair(saint) can kick anyone even if he is deemed a saint, but that will count against him(you need to keep above a level of 'minimal saintness' to be able to kick saints. If you drop below that you can only kick people who have been kicked a little more often, and so on. Basically racers and hosts have a kick level and a host can never kick someone above his level.

I don't think you can. Not from what you've proposed so far. Ultimately, what you want to determine is the answer to this question: was the kick justified or not? Nothing you've proposed presents a tight enough correlation to actual abusive behavior to be relied upon.

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 22:21
Look, saying something is a problem doesn't make that same person responsible for come up with the perfect solution(for you). Maybe there isn't any. The thing is, I get the feeling some people don't see the problem. I never argued for the kick to be totally removed, but it would be nice if we could get rid of these cheaters or at least stop them from repeating it over and over and over. Because that's what they are, cheaters. And they've been given the perfect tool, that also has a perfectly valid use, I must add. And if we can't solve it we can't, but admitting there is a problem might be the start of a solution(it's step 1 ;) )

And saying start your own lobby just isn't a solution for pickup racing, because that would create so many lobbies keeping track of hosts becomes impossible, and probably worse most lobbies would be empty.

bradleyland
04-12-2017, 23:17
I don't think I have denied that this is abusive behavior. There's a saying I like to use, it goes: "Don't just do something, stand there." :)

Often people jump directly to the conclusion that a problem must be solved. I agree that abusive host behavior is a problem, but I don't see these as valid solutions. So I'm left only to rebut any proposal that I believe would diminish the current state of online MP further.

MaximusN
04-12-2017, 23:25
Often people jump directly to the conclusion that a problem must be solved.

It's hardly jumping to a conclusion when you all agree there is a problem. It's a solution that musn't be jumped to(if there is any)


I agree that abusive host behavior is a problem, but I don't see these as valid solutions. So I'm left only to rebut any proposal that I believe would diminish the current state of online MP further.

Again, it's the admitting we have a problem that counts. And leaving this gaping hole open as you call it also doesn't do the current state of MP any good, so let's leave our options open shall we? Because honestly, "What ever they do, don't let them nerf the host-kick" doesn't get us anywhere.

Just Another Frog
05-12-2017, 03:01
So just to make sure i'm reading this correctly; In amongst the untold amounts of incident free games the op has experienced, she has on this occasion fallen foul to an instance of ungamely behavior in a custom lobby containing random racers - and in a race containing some highly dubious driving.
Ok, SMS, I sense an impending worldwide shortage of mole hills so you best hurry up with that patch.

This isn't 12 page news - this is page 12 (column 4, paragraph 6) news.

MaximusN
05-12-2017, 19:46
So just to make sure i'm reading this correctly; In amongst the untold amounts of incident free games the op has experienced, she has on this occasion fallen foul to an instance of ungamely behavior in a custom lobby containing random racers - and in a race containing some highly dubious driving.
Ok, SMS, I sense an impending worldwide shortage of mole hills so you best hurry up with that patch.

This isn't 12 page news - this is page 12 (column 4, paragraph 6) news.
Winner kicking has been reported a lot more though... Read up on it in the rating system thread if you can get through it. ;)