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STaLLiOnO
10-12-2017, 23:37
I'm not a Tuner.. Can anyone help me with a good balanced tune, please?

Nyreen
11-12-2017, 00:25
You should learn how to tune a car. Not because I don't want to help, but the BMW is very different from track to track and is highly influenced by the tuning. Just trying different downforce settings change everything, so imagine with the whole car tuned up.

Quick Monza laptimes are ran with 0:2 aero, the M6 is almost undriveable then but that's how you can be able to get below 1:46.5.

Like everyone, I start with the default loose and the thing is to notice every little handling detail that you don't like about the car and tune it up. I don't know how you drive, thus I don't know how (and where, on a tuning perspective) you're upsetting the car when you beat the crap out of it on the track. Can you give more details ?

Matt York
16-12-2017, 01:18
Depends on the track for a balanced tune, but a base that I use and that I find works for me in the M6 GT3:
- Take Stable Setup
- Keep brake bias between 58-60 (default is 60).
- Use the following for aero balance; if front aero is 0, have the rear at 2-5 / if the front aero is 1, have the rear between 4-6, if the front aero is at 2, have the rear between 5-8. The default aero is 0 front, 6 rear. Depending on the track, you will want to adjust with obviously low downforce tracks with front at 0, medium downforce 1, and then tighter or twistier tracks with not much in the way of high speed straights should be front aero at 2, with the rear in the ranges to suit depending on personal preference so you get some nice rotation but the car isn't just breaking away from you at high speeds.
- Change Bump Stop values to 0, pretty much always.
- Change Engine Braking to 4 or 5. Makes first gear more useable in heavy braking and turning in, as I find that low engine braking values has too much engine braking, and dropping down that extra gear when I may need it could lock the rear diff and/or unsettle the car.
- Traction Control Slip 14-16.
- Reduce diff preload to 80-90, and have clutch plates set to 4. I believe the defaults are 100 for preload, and either 4 or 6 for clutch plates.

That's what I use as a baseline for pretty much every track in the M6. From there, individual tuning of tyre pressures, brake ducts, ARB's, suspension, camber, dampers, and aero depending on the track. Hopefully that helps :)

Laserbeak43
16-01-2018, 16:02
Thanks. I'll be working with that very shortly!

Laserbeak43
17-01-2018, 17:35
Incredible! I'm performing so much better! The sad part is, I couldn't tell you why...

Matt York
17-01-2018, 18:55
Incredible! I'm performing so much better! The sad part is, I couldn't tell you why...

I can, so I shall break it down so you get a better understanding of what is happening :)


Depends on the track for a balanced tune, but a base that I use and that I find works for me in the M6 GT3:
- Take Stable Setup
So obviously, as the name suggests, the Stable setup is more stable than the loose one. For me personally, the Loose setup is too loose on the M6 GT3, as it just oversteers everywhere. I have no trust in the car and have to drive it so much more cautiously through the corners that I'm not attacking them and can't extract the performance out of the car. There's some differences too, in that the Loose setup has 1-5 wings (front - rear) and the Stable has (0 - 6). The 1 wing on the front will have quite an impact on the aero performance, giving you better cornering performance but increasing drag and making you slower in a straight line, something you don't want at Monza. You don't need a front wing that high, and just need a rear wing that is low enough to get the high straight line speeds, but stop the car from rotating in high speed corners.


- Keep brake bias between 58-60 (default is 60).
Stability, as above, the brake bias being further forward gives you better stability under heavy braking. If you lock the brakes with it further forward, you're just going to understeer, rather than locking the wheels and oversteering into the corner and having to fight and correct the car before turning in costing valuable time. It's safer, and you can therefore push more.


- Use the following for aero balance; if front aero is 0, have the rear at 2-5 / if the front aero is 1, have the rear between 4-6, if the front aero is at 2, have the rear between 5-8. The default aero is 0 front, 6 rear. Depending on the track, you will want to adjust with obviously low downforce tracks with front at 0, medium downforce 1, and then tighter or twistier tracks with not much in the way of high speed straights should be front aero at 2, with the rear in the ranges to suit depending on personal preference so you get some nice rotation but the car isn't just breaking away from you at high speeds.
As mentioned above, high wing angles aren't needed at Monza due to the straights. For other tracks, having the right aero balance front to rear allows the car to do what you want it to do in the medium to high speed corners.


- Change Bump Stop values to 0, pretty much always.
This greatly improves stability and responsiveness in the car. The more Bump Stop you have in, the bigger and therefore the softer they are. They get engaged sooner as the suspension moves and have a bigger impact on the handling making it feel soft and wollowy. You only really need them for preventing the car from bottoming out which isn't frequent unless you're on an extremely bumpy track in the M6. Smaller Bump Stops are stiffer, and allow for more suspension movement before being engaged, so if you do ever want to use Bump Stops, making them as small as you can so they don't effect the cars handling through a corner too much. Depending on the track, I tend to find I'll gain a couple of tenths up to a second if not more, just by removing them. The car just feels so much better in terms of response to inputs and feedback, that I can trust it more and attack corners.


- Change Engine Braking to 4 or 5. Makes first gear more useable in heavy braking and turning in, as I find that low engine braking values has too much engine braking, and dropping down that extra gear when I may need it could lock the rear diff and/or unsettle the car.
Another stability change. Upping the value here will mean that you bleed off speed slower as there isn't as much engine braking, but again with the added stability you're able to be more aggressive in the latter phases of your braking and downshifting into the tighter corners like hairpins or the tight chicanes. This is especially noticeable into T1 at Monza, where the heavy braking there and the downshifting into 1st gear as you turn in could lead to the rear axle locking up with lower engine braking values, and causing the car to rotate on you as you turn in. As the engine braking is weaker up at 4 or 5, the effect isn't as strong and the diff is less likely to lock up and cause the car to rotate on you. Again, more stability = more trust = more attacking of corners. Also, it being a higher value means you can carry more speed through corners when off throttle. Corners such as the first of the two Lesmo's and the Parabolica, you may want to hold some of your speed through the corner when off throttle, depending on your driving style. As lower values make you bleed speed more, it's good for hooking and pulling the car into the apex, but at times you may actually want to carry the speed through the corner and not lose it when off-throttle, which higher values help with.


- Traction Control Slip 14-16.
Less interference from the traction control system. It allows for more wheel slip which allows for more translation of power through the wheels onto the tarmac which gives better acceleration, this is of course providing they're not spinning up and wheel spinning out of corners. Obviously, it requires you to have more finesse on the loud pedal so you don't break traction and wheelspin, but if you get it right, you'll be able to accelerate out of corners better than if you had a ton of traction control managing the wheel spin for you.


- Reduce diff preload to 80-90, and have clutch plates set to 4. I believe the defaults are 100 for preload, and either 4 or 6 for clutch plates.
This gives better maneuverability. It gives you less understeer off-throttle, and less oversteer on-throttle, and smoothens out the diff locking effects when going from on-throttle to off-throttle, or off-throttle to on-throttle which helps in keeping the car settled going into, through and out of corners. This is obviously within certain balances, as going too low is also detrimental.

So all in all, what you're doing is obviously making the car a bit quicker in terms of it's outright performance across a lap, but also greatly increasing it's stability. With that, then comes your ability to trust the car, and push it more to attack the corners, which providing you can do within moderation and don't overdrive the car or unsettle it, it will keep the car within it's optimum performance range in terms of tyre and brake temperatures to give better performance over an extended period of time and longer race stints.

Jetsun
17-01-2018, 19:22
wow thank you!

Nyreen
17-01-2018, 20:00
Of course, note that everything can be tweaked to suit your driving the best. For example, I prefer having my engine braking set at maximum (0) and blip for 2nd and 1st gear. I like it when there's more "driving" involved. Also, the bump stop value is quite random, sometimes it's better at 0, and on some cars 15/10 works the best. I say random because I just don't understand anything about the Jussi's tab lol

Laserbeak43
18-01-2018, 09:50
Solid Gold. Thank you so much guys!

PulpDogg
18-01-2018, 14:35
Thanks for the info, Matt. How much of that (especially your second post) is specific to the M6 and how much is universal for other GT3 cars?

Nyreen
18-01-2018, 22:02
Everything works for most of the GT cars in general.

AEIDOLONE
18-01-2018, 23:31
The video version: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd1z0DEGQK4

Matt York
19-01-2018, 11:42
Thanks for the info, Matt. How much of that (especially your second post) is specific to the M6 and how much is universal for other GT3 cars?

It's pretty universal across all cars in the game, or at least the majority of it is. There's some things in there that may not work for other cars like Rallycross, Road, some open wheelers etc but the direction of adjustment and theory behind it is the same. The specific values will depend on the car and what works specifically for it, and then also the conditions and your own personal driving style. For instance some cars you can use a more aggressive (lower) Engine Braking value and be fine, some cars like to have or need a bit of Bump Stop kept in, but you can apply the theory of it to other cars for sure. Just fiddle with small adjustments and test to see the impact it has on the car, and whether it improves the handling, your feeling in the car and also your lap times, and go from there.

Don't be scared to sit down and do a bit of trial and error. Read the help text for each setting, then do changes in small increments, save each change separately (you'll end up with a ton of setups but makes it real easy to go back if you want to revert a change/number of changes), and then run 5-10 laps in stable conditions to see what impact it has. If you do that for one thing at a time, you'll get a better understanding of the settings and impact it has on the car to help build setups for certain tracks and also certain weather conditions.

Nyreen
19-01-2018, 12:05
Maybe not the best way, but sure teaches you what the thing you're tuning is doing : try extreme settings (not on your default page lol). Open/closed diff, no/max aero, stiff/soft springs, [...] Then you find a balance.

Before truly understanding what some parts of the car are changing to the gameplay, it's kinda hard to tweak something click by click and notice a real difference. I guess that's why people prefer downloading a setup from someone, so you can tell the difference right away.

blinkngone
19-01-2018, 14:50
"some cars like to have or need a bit of Bump Stop kept in"

As an example, I had to increase the Bump Stop on the right side of the Mustang GT at Texas Speedway to keep it from rolling over(figuratively) into the corners, the car doesn't come with enough springs, it's a street car. Picked up .08 by doing this. Fiddle fiddle.
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Olijke Poffer
19-01-2018, 19:08
It's pretty universal across all cars in the game, or at least the majority of it is. There's some things in there that may not work for other cars like Rallycross, Road, some open wheelers etc but the direction of adjustment and theory behind it is the same. The specific values will depend on the car and what works specifically for it, and then also the conditions and your own personal driving style. For instance some cars you can use a more aggressive (lower) Engine Braking value and be fine, some cars like to have or need a bit of Bump Stop kept in, but you can apply the theory of it to other cars for sure. Just fiddle with small adjustments and test to see the impact it has on the car, and whether it improves the handling, your feeling in the car and also your lap times, and go from there.

Don't be scared to sit down and do a bit of trial and error. Read the help text for each setting, then do changes in small increments, save each change separately (you'll end up with a ton of setups but makes it real easy to go back if you want to revert a change/number of changes), and then run 5-10 laps in stable conditions to see what impact it has. If you do that for one thing at a time, you'll get a better understanding of the settings and impact it has on the car to help build setups for certain tracks and also certain weather conditions.


Thanks for this.. Just watched your base tuning vid and adapted this to th BMW myself and it is nice to race with this base setup.

blinkngone
19-01-2018, 20:34
Thanks to this thread I started fiddling more with the Bump Stops, I can only run Ovals so my testing is limited. I ran my BMW M6 GT3 at Texas Speedway and was able to pick up some improvement over my previous PB/WR by adjusting the Bump Stops. I am happy to be able to continually learn new things in this game, what more could be asked for.
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Mr Schumacher
19-01-2018, 20:46
I just want to know if we can get some bright pretty lights on our cars for the 24Hrs of Daytona.. please.. it would be very nice. Inside the car and out side

blinkngone
20-01-2018, 01:59
Some cars really fly with some bump stop work, was in 2nd to Black Wolf at 0:42.599 to his 0:42.560 (0:00.039 back, things are usually pretty tight at Daytona). Worked on only the bump stops.
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Holy Cow! Ok ,this is the most spectacular result so far, usually it's only about a tenth improvement.

Laserbeak43
20-01-2018, 10:55
I call my new base setup, the "Matt York".

senna94f1
20-01-2018, 23:38
Sorry Matt I thought I was on to a winner when reading your car set ups ,

I've tried the no bump stops as you said it makes car more stable,

For me it made the cars rotate more easily going thru the turns, ,so I've gone back to 05 bump stops which does stop the cars from rotating ,
I also think that it shows different driving styles and your style may or may not suit others,

But that's the whole point because we all drive cars different and it shows the game works ,
If not we would all be Ai bots ,

Laserbeak43
21-01-2018, 20:02
Sorry Matt I thought I was on to a winner when reading your car set ups ,

I've tried the no bump stops as you said it makes car more stable,

For me it made the cars rotate more easily going thru the turns, ,so I've gone back to 05 bump stops which does stop the cars from rotating ,
I also think that it shows different driving styles and your style may or may not suit others,

But that's the whole point because we all drive cars different and it shows the game works ,
If not we would all be Ai bots ,

Interesting. What cars do you use? I'm pretty bad, compared to most of the people I race with, so it kind of makes me curious about potential performance factors etc...

moitaum
13-02-2018, 12:26
I am 3 seconds behind the other pilots in dubai gb, I am with bmw m6, and the others with audi gt3, porsche. I would like some help to setup, good time would be 1:57.

Thank you my friends and sorry for my English.

blinkngone
13-02-2018, 12:46
I am 3 seconds behind the other pilots in dubai gb, I am with bmw m6, and the others with audi gt3, porsche. I would like some help to setup, good time would be 1:57.

Thank you my friends and sorry for my English.

Hi moitaum, no one on PC has run the M6 on TT close to where you want to be(1:58.620 is current best, the run is mostly Default Loose, doesn't include the changes Matt recommended to the Bump Stops earlier in this thread). The Audi and the 488 are there. Are you allowed to switch cars?

moitaum
13-02-2018, 12:56
I am not allowed to change, it is a championship and the choices are already locked. = (.

But any help for the adjustment is welcome.

I think I'll be there in 1:57.

blinkngone
13-02-2018, 12:58
I am not allowed to change, it is a championship and the choices are already locked. = (.

But any help for the adjustment is welcome.

I think I'll be there in 1:57.

Have you already made these changes?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58702-BMW-M6-GT3-TUNE!&p=1447892&viewfull=1#post1447892

Fight-Test
13-02-2018, 13:03
I'm rubbish at that track or I would help. I haven't found a track where the BMW couldn't be competitive so I think you can get close. Track is brutal on tires so depending on the length and strategy maybe you can make it up somewhere by preserving rubber.

moitaum
13-02-2018, 13:03
I will test in Dubai later today, and notice the differences and the feel of the setup. then we will have to think about setup.

Thank you so much.

blinkngone
13-02-2018, 13:20
I will test in Dubai later today, and notice the differences and the feel of the setup. then we will have to think about setup.

Thank you so much.

The mostly Default Loose WR is at 158.620. 2nd place is a Default Loose 1:58.920.
The Left Front tire is a problem due to the high ambient/track temperature. The track is extremely slick, the Stable LSD is possibly better. Hard tires are a must.
Here is the Stable suspension. You might try reducing the Front Camber to reduce the overheating of the left front, the cars tend to slide the rear easily anyway and having too much front grip just aggravates this.
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moitaum
14-02-2018, 10:25
The changes made the car much better, but I'm far from 1:57, I'll have to train my track.

Good time for pole is at 1:56, some riders are at this time.

the race is March 5th, I put the link here for the see friends.

For now thanks, as soon as I revise my notice.

Nekro
15-02-2018, 07:15
Hey guys.
At First I wanna say thank you, because i learned alot about the bmw from this thread.
But Im having a huge problem which I can not seem to solve. At out championship the next race will be at hockenheim at 33 degrees track temperature. After the update Im willing to take the soft tires. But after testing them it seems like the left tires are like 20degrees hotter(105-115degrees) than the right ones(90-95 degrees). Its not really affecting the handling, but the front left tire is going down way to fast to be good at a raceday. You have any idea what I can do?

Sorry for my bad english tho.
Every help is appreciated alot.

hkraft300
15-02-2018, 10:34
At out championship the next race will be at hockenheim at 33 degrees track temperature. After the update Im willing to take the soft tires. But after testing them it seems like the left tires are like 20degrees hotter(105-115degrees) than the right ones(90-95 degrees). Its not really affecting the handling, but the front left tire is going down way to fast to be good at a raceday. You have any idea what I can do?

Sorry for my bad english tho.
Every help is appreciated alot.

Try to keep the left side at 26psi (1.8 bar) hot or lower. You will probably have to set asymmetric cold pressures.
All the high load, high speed corners at Hockenheim are right turns so the left side will naturally get more worn.
Aside from that a stiffer rear swaybar, maybe lower power ramp angle (diff), but most importantly change your line/ approach through the fast left corners. The final turns leading to the pit straight is somewhere you could potentially sacrifice a bit of speed without losing too much lap time. Slow in, fast out to save the front left tire.

Matt York
15-02-2018, 17:56
Hey guys.
At First I wanna say thank you, because i learned alot about the bmw from this thread.
But Im having a huge problem which I can not seem to solve. At out championship the next race will be at hockenheim at 33 degrees track temperature. After the update Im willing to take the soft tires. But after testing them it seems like the left tires are like 20degrees hotter(105-115degrees) than the right ones(90-95 degrees). Its not really affecting the handling, but the front left tire is going down way to fast to be good at a raceday. You have any idea what I can do?

Sorry for my bad english tho.
Every help is appreciated alot.

How long is the race? And have you tested the hard tyres?

As hkraft has pointed out, the left side will naturally get worked harder than the right due to the layout of the circuit. A lot more high load right hand turns than left. That will obviously effect tyre wear with how fast you wear the tyres, and also their temperatures. As hkfraft pointed out again, best way to combat this is through your driving with your lines and approach to corners. Whilst setup changes can be done to reduce the wheels sliding through over or understeer which in turn produces heat, that will only go so far before the management is needed from the driver.

Being around 33C track, hard tyres could still be an option depending on the length of the race. Softs may work nicely, but when they get hot, they have quite a big grip drop off. The hards are a lot more consistent though, so it is weighing up the grip levels and lap times over the course of the race (if it is a longer one) rather than a few laps outright pace.