PDA

View Full Version : Lobby/Weather-Settings must be visible to all - completely (exploiting is too easy)



beatrunner
28-12-2017, 20:06
Hi SMS

atm when im checking the weatherforecast in the lobbies i can only see 2 weather slots. we don't know if there's more slots "behind" the two visible ones. that leads to unpredictable weather - or even to abuse of that by newbies gaining advantage because they know allone that it could be raining / snowing within a few laps into the race:

- we can't see weather-progression settings
- we can't see all weather slots
- we so aren't sure what to expect from the race

i could set up a lobby right now with following settings and am 100% sure i'd win the race (no matter who's the competition):

- 4 weather slots
- 1 + 2 = sunny (people like that)
- 3 + 4 = Tunderstorm
- Weatherprogression 60x
- 5 Lap race

Everybody preparing for the race would only see "clear" as weatherforecast. they will not even think of rain and for sure fitting regular tires.
the race starts...and i guess it would start raining/thunderstorming right before the very first lap ends. or right at the start of second lap.

me as the lobby-maker would do the following:

- starting with proper rain setup
- having bit slower start / bit less grip the first lap
- after that - i'd immediately be able to pass every single car (with no rain setup)
- because with that settings: puddles will build up extremly quick - transforming into huge lakes right after 2-3 laps.

people who need to pit: loosing loooots of time - having wrong pitstrategies / tirepressures and so on
people who try without pit: spinning out / running straight into walls / getting damaged and slow / pitting loosing time

- all this: for sure!

me - could even be a U800 crasher - would very easily beat the top S1900 drivers and gain points the easy way. this just happend to me right now. but the guy who had that plan messed it up because (me p2 at start, he p1) i was just that much faster in the try and he messed it so much up, that he (the reason for me posting here) left without even finishing his own race...

so please - give all the information about weather (all slots, progression settings) to the drivers out there. IRL there's no such thing as "a secret weather change" only known to one of the drivers. forecasts are quite "good" and....

the information in the lobbies about weather isn't - as soon as there's more then 2 slots.

just thanks for having a good "think about" inside SMS about this. i don't know who / why decided to only show 2 slots?

thank you very much.:confused:

zedeeyen
29-12-2017, 09:46
I've actually seen this exploited too.

5-lap race, forecast says clear, then after everyone has readied up the host said 'remember guys, it'll rain at the end'. Sure enough at the end of lap 4 a storm breaks out and the only guy who knew it was going to rain and started on wets comes from way back to win the race.

Hardly fair.

davidt33
29-12-2017, 10:58
Good point. Have experienced same myself.

MaximusN
29-12-2017, 11:03
I've actually seen this exploited too.

5-lap race, forecast says clear, then after everyone has readied up the host said 'remember guys, it'll rain at the end'. Sure enough at the end of lap 4 a storm breaks out and the only guy who knew it was going to rain and started on wets comes from way back to win the race.

Hardly fair.

I think I was in that guy's Lobby too a few times. To be fair he does keep it open and you'll know it's coming the second(and consecutive) time(s) around. I found it rather refreshing to be honest. Even the first time(I can still remember it, was in the M1 on Brands) I finished pretty well. I actually like having to adapt(I'm weird like that :) ).

If the host wasn't racing himself I think it's the best thing ever. Then no one racing knows whats coming and has to deal with the same problems. :D

beatrunner
29-12-2017, 16:18
people please: it's not about "i like it when it rains"...it's about we have to know the same thing as the host. period.
ofcourse i like to race in other conditions but "sunny". but i just want to know wha'ts coming on.

MaximusN
29-12-2017, 16:54
people please: it's not about "i like it when it rains"...it's about we have to know the same thing as the host. period.
ofcourse i like to race in other conditions but "sunny". but i just want to know wha'ts coming on.

It's really no problem if the host doesn't race and even if he does, only one out of the twenty-something has that knowledge, plenty of guys/gals to beat that are exactly in the same boat as you. I couldn't care less and actually enjoy the surprise. Even if you think of those silly points you can still beat the others in the field on merit.

He could also have been practising a car+track+weather combo for 100s of hours, if you step into his lobby you are also on the backfoot. The 'exploit' in the OP is only more obvious, but still...

davidt33
29-12-2017, 17:59
people please: it's not about "i like it when it rains"...it's about we have to know the same thing as the host. period.
ofcourse i like to race in other conditions but "sunny". but i just want to know wha'ts coming on.

Apparently the issue with a lack of knowing what weather forecasts are coming up following the initial is not constrained to the host not showing in lobby.
I just did a race in Career, GT3 in Pier 2 category. The only weather forecast shown was slightly cloudy or overcast so I put on Slick Hard. Halfway to 3/4 of the race (approx 7 laps) all of a sudden the race engineer indicated it was going to begin to snow and snow began to fall. Having no prior knowledge begore the race that the weather forecast was going to change of course I did not select a pit stop strategy to change tyres to snow or ice so of course when I pitted and exited with snow on the track and getting heavier I slipped all over the place for loss of traction and other cars began to pass me. Strange.

g33k hack3rs
29-12-2017, 19:23
Career is equally secretive about weather conditions. Just got used to racing full length races and always have a "wet" strategy ready. Racing in snow seems a bit unrealistic for GT3 but that's what we get when all weather conditions are enabled. Lobby hosts unfortunately have a bit of an advantage in setting things up with knowledge that the rest do not have. Would be nice if there was page that shows all settings selected by the host so it is easy to verify in the lobby and from the pits.

Haven't experienced this myself yet but I've only done a handful of online races.

davidt33
29-12-2017, 19:58
Following up on my previous post on the secretive change in weather during said Career race I had exited the race a couple times due to the slippage in weather change approx halfway through. Said to myself ok since the weather changed to snow falling I'd change my pit strategy to tyres...Ice (since there are no tyres named "Snow"). Snow = Ice right? Wrong. Coming off the pit the car was still sliding all over the place. I did notice though it wasn't quite snow as in white snow on track but rather could be (wet) snow falling with the track being more wet than white snow covered. So after a couple tries I decided to try tyres as "Wet". That apparently did the trick and with wet tyres on exiting the pit the traction then was much better as expected. Turned out quite fun actually and pretty much realistic. In the end the change in weather requiring a pit stop equipping respective tyres added a nice touch to the race.

MaximusN
29-12-2017, 20:20
Following up on my previous post on the secretive change in weather during said Career race I had exited the race a couple times due to the slippage in weather change approx halfway through. Said to myself ok since the weather changed to snow falling I'd change my pit strategy to tyres...Ice (since there are no tyres named "Snow"). Snow = Ice right? Wrong. Coming off the pit the car was still sliding all over the place. I did notice though it wasn't quite snow as in white snow on track but rather could be (wet) snow falling with the track being more wet than white snow covered. So after a couple tries I decided to try tyres as "Wet". That apparently did the trick and with wet tyres on exiting the pit the traction then was much better as expected. Turned out quite fun actually and pretty much realistic. In the end the change in weather requiring a pit stop equipping respective tyres added a nice touch to the race.

Wets are what I chose when I knew there was a race coming with snow(but warm enough to let it melt). I think ice tyres(with spikes) only work with ice or a snow cover(and even then all-weather is probably better). But here's me again saying it's nice not to know exactly what works and what's going to happen. That makes it an adventure instead of just repeating your TT program(which I stay far away from).

davidt33
29-12-2017, 20:27
Wets are what I chose when I knew there was a race coming with snow(but warm enough to let it melt). I think ice tyres(with spikes) only work with ice or a snow cover(and even then all-weather is probably better). But here's me again saying it's nice not to know exactly what works and what's going to happen. That makes it an adventure instead of just repeating your TT program(which I stay far away from).

Yeah, well it was a good experience for me so next time I'll know the difference for choosing the appropriate tyres. As I said, it ended up quite fun and very realistic.

poirqc
30-12-2017, 03:07
I think the OP has a good point.

At the end of the day, SMS build rules and feature to make online racing as fair as possible. The OP explained, in a detailed manner, how to partially avoid that fairness.

This isn't going to be a problem in leagues since those are build on trust anyway. In pick up play, that trust level is far lower. With the amount of diversity this game offers, the user need to know what he's getting into, as much as possible.


It may not be a widespread problem, but it's still something to consider, I think.

Balles
30-12-2017, 09:02
A few things could be made to avoid that situation.
I remember a lobby like that where the host was totally fair warning people that rain was expected just before the start, the race was absolutely brilliant for everyone and many at the end have said a "what a race !". Being in the known make a big difference.

MaximusN
30-12-2017, 10:52
To be fair, I must agree that it would be nice to see ALL settings that the host setup the lobby with. You see more in the lobby than when in qually or before the race(when you press online lobby). And it's good to know how things like damage and mechanical damage are set(there's a whole list of things that can have you on the backfoot). Even if autostart is allowed can be good to know. That last one is only a problem for people using manual clutch but still...

Weather is only one of the things you can't see and weather is at least 50% shown(2 slots of 4).

beatrunner
30-12-2017, 13:18
thanks guys to support this. i'd like to mention another idea that would put in a lot more "thrust into online lobbies":

- A Big Fat Label in the Server Screen / Another Column (such as Host / Track / License)
- Red Labeled "ARCADE GAMING"
- Green Labeled "SIM RACING"

it's sooooo sad that 90% of the racing is done in ARCADE lobbies. all the gamers out there want "the real simulation". they decide to go the PC2 way (the right way), but when it comes to online racing, the majority falls into "Arcade Mode" and prefers lobbies with no damage, no mechanical failures, maybe even no penalties and so on. i just refuse to race in such lobbies (ok, i sometimes do it too, due to lack of likeminded people to join me) because this isn't sim racing anymore when guys can hit walls and drive unclean and put risk on anybody else but still are able to compete and beat me (a "slow", safe but successful driver)....and so on.

with such a labeling system more people would see the benefits from sim racing because they don't want to be blaimd an arcade driver (psychology) - and in the end we all would benefit from the feelings that are 100x as strong as in arcade racing (no risk, no fun, no adrenalin, no attention what ppl are doing on track...) and just have lot of more real action going on.

because right now in the server lists it's sooo much searching for "the right lobbies" (sim racing). you just can't see it. you need to go in, see that lobby settings are ARCADE (everything important turned off), go out again, click again... ...you name it i guess.

i'm daydreaming i know - i know....

and to all the one's clicking reply only to say "shut the *"* up and just open your own lobby" i only like to say upfront: ofcourse i do it. but it would just be easier to have the most important stuff in the first lists (arcade/sim), and then in the actual lobby after joining to see all the rest of the info - and i mean - all the rest, the same list i see when i setup a lobby should be visible on one view. right now we have to click throu 2-3 different "menus" to get all we need to decide if it's worth putting in the time into that race...

MaximusN
30-12-2017, 13:24
Oh no not this arcade argument again....

Just leave it at being able to filter and/or see the properties of the lobby.

Turning off damage for instance also protects you from rammers, not only themselves. Labeling it arcade would get peoples panties in a twist and I can't say I would disagree.

beatrunner
30-12-2017, 13:32
ofcourse there is a need to have possibility to go racing with no damage. and ofcourse i used that A-word on purpose. because what else are lobbies like this:

248035

more information about the "qualitiy" of lobby would just ease up the process of finding the "joy we are all looking for" in the way "we all are looking for in our own way" (A-Word / Real Sim). And to have much more / all information before entering a server/lobby we could all get rid of the annoying joining/quitting the servers which pops up the chatbox everytime...maybe even gives some small "lags"...and so on....

and i won't go into a debate about "Arcade/Sim" - this thread should please stay on the topic of "more information to the users" :D

MaximusN
30-12-2017, 14:00
I think that lobby is pretty okay... It has in-car view mandatory, tyre and fuel usage on and only allows ABS. Okay no (mechanical) damage and penalties, but penalties aren't enforced in a realistic way anyway. If they have someone appointed to watching the behavior of the drivers, I'd say it's more realistic than auto-penalties.

I think I could place a bold statement and say they were asked by gamers to keep other gamers in check, not because of it's realism. If anything, the penalties are arcade, because they follow (this) game('s) punishment. Only the rules(or thereabouts) have a real life counterpart. There is no Charlie Whiting asking Vettel to keep off the gas for a few seconds because he went wide in one corner.

I get why the penalties are there, but it's for fairness, not realism that they were put there.

Look maybe it's me but the first time I was confronted with speed restricting or give-back-time penalties(don't remember which) was in.... Gran Turismo 5(or 4?). So they feel arcade to me. :)

beatrunner
31-12-2017, 20:49
the main problem i have with such lobbies (damage turned off is a very good example):

- if you get hit in such races from behind
- the victim gets massively disturbed in racing /
- endless of times my car gets flipped over
- the "not braker's" mostly doesn't suffer at all (if damage off) / only slightly
- the "not brakers" abuse u to have some "more braking efficency"
- the victim gets spinned out / flipped over and all the following cars don't have to brake / stear away
- they all just can fly throu / hit and flip you over and around again

IMHO there should be something done that slows the cars down after a crash - even when damage off. dreaming agan...i know

MaximusN
01-01-2018, 01:00
the main problem i have with such lobbies (damage turned off is a very good example):

- if you get hit in such races from behind
- the victim gets massively disturbed in racing /
- endless of times my car gets flipped over
- the "not braker's" mostly doesn't suffer at all (if damage off) / only slightly
- the "not brakers" abuse u to have some "more braking efficency"
- the victim gets spinned out / flipped over and all the following cars don't have to brake / stear away
- they all just can fly throu / hit and flip you over and around again

IMHO there should be something done that slows the cars down after a crash - even when damage off. dreaming agan...i know

If you take rammers for a fact(it's pretty okay on PC most of the time) I'd rather have damage off. You do understand that the car he rams also gets damage? If I'm hit by a rammer and can continue I don't even care much(makes for a nice overtake race). If my race is finished in turn one though....

So better option is to look for (or make) a high safety rating lobby. You're trying to solve the problem in the wrong way.

g33k hack3rs
02-01-2018, 21:52
ofcourse there is a need to have possibility to go racing with no damage. and ofcourse i used that A-word on purpose. because what else are lobbies like this:

248035

more information about the "qualitiy" of lobby would just ease up the process of finding the "joy we are all looking for" in the way "we all are looking for in our own way" (A-Word / Real Sim). And to have much more / all information before entering a server/lobby we could all get rid of the annoying joining/quitting the servers which pops up the chatbox everytime...maybe even gives some small "lags"...and so on....

and i won't go into a debate about "Arcade/Sim" - this thread should please stay on the topic of "more information to the users" :D

I must confess I don't join lobbies like these either. I prefer a lobby setup with real simulation damage, tire wear, mechanical failures, etc. On the other hand I understand that many feel the penalties are impacting the racing and the end result isn't what they like. Sadly I've seen more of these lobbies lately and usually end up racing career since I can't find a lobby to join with the setting I prefer. Hopefully adjusting the penalty system will help but I have a feeling that slowing down on track is a feature that will stay and that is a big part of the current frustration with online racing. I ignore the warnings and just take the few seconds penalty as I'm not slowing down on track but most seem to be of a different mindset.

Would've liked it if there were more lobbies with real racing rules available. Would be nice if I can just browse for Blancpain lobbies or WTCC lobbies and know the settings will be similar to the actual racing series.

Krobo
08-01-2018, 20:16
people please: it's not about "i like it when it rains"...it's about we have to know the same thing as the host. period.
ofcourse i like to race in other conditions but "sunny". but i just want to know wha'ts coming on.

I feel ya , but even with todays hi tec weather tools, to be a professional weather man or meteorologist you only need to be right 50% of the time ! lol

know one can fully predict the weather 100% of the time ;-) ..