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Alfisti
03-01-2018, 13:48
Bear with me as i will try to give detail as to where I am struggling rather than just rant. My online tag is NevileNobody in case i have raced you before.

Played PC2 for the first time last night and I am all over the place, a best of 2.19 at Bathurst in the McLaren GT3. As a reference point, in PC1 I ran consistent 7's there, 47's at Monza and 57's at 'Ring GP. Not blindingly quick but quick enough to fight for online podiums at the right track.

Now for the detail .....

I use a controller, old school, no sticks or triggers, I use the X and square button and the pad. I know, i know ... but it is what it is, I just have no feel for the triggers, never have. My driving style in PC1 was brake late, turn whilst coasting, hard on the gas out. I tap the X button on high powered cars to account for traction issues. I used all assists except for braking. To do this i would run little to no decel lock so i could rotate the car.

Now last night, I couldn't do anything despite trying a multitude of controller settings found on this site. Nothing worked. I loaded the stable set up and reduced rear downforce a notch as my only change. I ran all assists except braking. I tried to be more pure and not use Steering Assist but was running 25's i was so slow.

So what's the car doing?

- When braking, it is locking up extremely easily, I have zero confidence. My marker into Murray's corner is where the signage changes to the right, I brake hard, the car is a little loose to help turn in then power it hard onto the front straight. Even braking well before this point I lock up and understeer off.

- If i get the braking "right", when I get off the gas i get severe snap oversteer, lift oversteer.

- On the gas, I am shredding three of the four tyres, only the front right remaining at the correct temps (front right, at Bathurst!!!! makes no sense!!) . The car power slides out of slow corners with understeer then snap oversteer.

- Mid corner is a fiasco, either understeer or wicked oversteer where i thump the inside walls relentlessly. The car feels so twitchy yet unresponsive at the same time. Through McPhillamy, my apex speed is 170kmh, down from 200kmh on PC1.

Not sure what else to add, not sure if this is car set up (doubt it) or controller (suspect it) or what but I am all at sea. Any help will be appreciated.

danowat
03-01-2018, 14:06
I know you don't want to hear it, but I am going to say it anyway..........

Spend time learning to use the analog sticks and triggers, you have way more control over the car than the binary nature of the pad and buttons, can you imagine driving a real car with binary controls?, nightmare.

Alfisti
03-01-2018, 14:07
I know you don't want to hear it, but I am going to say it anyway..........

Spend time learning to use the analog sticks and triggers, you have way more control over the car than the binary nature of the pad and buttons, can you imagine driving a real car with binary controls?, nightmare.

Fair comment, but I managed just fine in PC1 so not sure what has changed so much.

I did try the triggers and sticks in PC1 when i hit the Renault F1 car in career mode, the one with insane turbo lag. Gave it a full 4 to 5 hours, I am absolutely hopeless, no other word for it.

danowat
03-01-2018, 14:08
Fair comment, but I managed just fine in PC1 so not sure what has changed so much.

You're right, it has changed a lot, some for the better, some for the worse, as far as I am concerned, control issues (at least for me) are born out of altering the controller settings from default.

Brainbug
03-01-2018, 14:12
Do not Start with the mclaren. I did also and where very irritated at the beginning because the back of the car was quite tricky.

Start with Ferrari or porsche.

And load up the stable setup for your car. The loose one is default loaded up.

And practice

beetes_juice
03-01-2018, 14:13
Might be down to your setups if you were using the diff decel lock to help rotate - the differential simulation is much more advanced (right) compared to PC1. If you have't already, check out the stable setup that comes with the cars. Stable is geared toward controller users while lose is tailored for wheel users. Anyway, same happened for most WMD guys when we first started playing - seconds off our PC1 times, this sucks! - seconds will drop with more track time. Sure other controller and setup guys will chime in with some advice.

Alfisti
03-01-2018, 14:17
Yeah i loaded stable, all i did was reduce the rear downforce.

BADBAZIL BARRY
03-01-2018, 14:26
Bear with me as i will try to give detail as to where I am struggling rather than just rant. My online tag is NevileNobody in case i have raced you before.

Played PC2 for the first time last night and I am all over the place, a best of 2.19 at Bathurst in the McLaren GT3. As a reference point, in PC1 I ran consistent 7's there, 47's at Monza and 57's at 'Ring GP. Not blindingly quick but quick enough to fight for online podiums at the right track.

Now for the detail .....

I use a controller, old school, no sticks or triggers, I use the X and square button and the pad. I know, i know ... but it is what it is, I just have no feel for the triggers, never have. My driving style in PC1 was brake late, turn whilst coasting, hard on the gas out. I tap the X button on high powered cars to account for traction issues. I used all assists except for braking. To do this i would run little to no decel lock so i could rotate the car.

Now last night, I couldn't do anything despite trying a multitude of controller settings found on this site. Nothing worked. I loaded the stable set up and reduced rear downforce a notch as my only change. I ran all assists except braking. I tried to be more pure and not use Steering Assist but was running 25's i was so slow.

So what's the car doing?

- When braking, it is locking up extremely easily, I have zero confidence. My marker into Murray's corner is where the signage changes to the right, I brake hard, the car is a little loose to help turn in then power it hard onto the front straight. Even braking well before this point I lock up and understeer off.

- If i get the braking "right", when I get off the gas i get severe snap oversteer, lift oversteer.

- On the gas, I am shredding three of the four tyres, only the front right remaining at the correct temps (front right, at Bathurst!!!! makes no sense!!) . The car power slides out of slow corners with understeer then snap oversteer.

- Mid corner is a fiasco, either understeer or wicked oversteer where i thump the inside walls relentlessly. The car feels so twitchy yet unresponsive at the same time. Through McPhillamy, my apex speed is 170kmh, down from 200kmh on PC1.

Not sure what else to add, not sure if this is car set up (doubt it) or controller (suspect it) or what but I am all at sea. Any help will be appreciated.

Gday Alfisti, i don't know if it will help but maybe try youtube, my mate was having problems using the controller and he found a setup that worked well for him on there, mind you that was on xbox 1. The only thing else i could suggest is get a wheel tbh its a lot more enjoyable, like yourself i used a controller for a while but after getting a wheel i never looked back. Sorry i couldn't help further mate. Regards Bazza✌

kevin kirk
03-01-2018, 17:49
I can only help with the gt/lmp cars. Controller is a lot more simple in this game. My controller logic is basically the default but with steering, brake, and throttle sensitivity on 0. The only slider I really spend time dialing in is the controller sensitivity. For me, that slider adjusts how much counter steering bite the control has so I adjust that to where I can counter steer and catch the car without it jerking me the other way to much....... For car setup logic, my main go-to thing is the power ramp and coast ramp adjustment of the rear diff settings. I like a high number power ramp because the high the number the less the rear of the car will swing around under power. A higher number also lets you just nail the throttle to bring it out off a sideways slide. The coast ramp I like a lower setting because the lower the setting the more you can throw the car into a corner with out spinning out but to low wont allow the car to turn or rotate. You can easily adjust how much turn the car has. My second go to car set up setting is adding rear down force and lowering front downforce. My 3rd and final thing are bump stops. The higher the bump stops the easier it is to catch slides because the soft/low bump stops the car will just float instead of being a solid platform when driving.

Alfisti
03-01-2018, 18:20
I can only help with the gt/lmp cars. Controller is a lot more simple in this game. My controller logic is basically the default but with steering, brake, and throttle sensitivity on 0. The only slider I really spend time dialing in is the controller sensitivity. For me, that slider adjusts how much counter steering bite the control has so I adjust that to where I can counter steer and catch the car without it jerking me the other way to much....... For car setup logic, my main go-to thing is the power ramp and coast ramp adjustment of the rear diff settings. I like a high number power ramp because the high the number the less the rear of the car will swing around under power. A higher number also lets you just nail the throttle to bring it out off a sideways slide. The coast ramp I like a lower setting because the lower the setting the more you can throw the car into a corner with out spinning out but to low wont allow the car to turn or rotate. You can easily adjust how much turn the car has. My second go to car set up setting is adding rear down force and lowering front downforce. My 3rd and final thing are bump stops. The higher the bump stops the easier it is to catch slides because the soft/low bump stops the car will just float instead of being a solid platform when driving.

This guy gets it.

That's exactly what I am talking about, I'll give it a whirl as well as the previously mentioned idea to just run default controller settings and see how i go.

Alfisti
04-01-2018, 13:49
Changed my controller to default, tried that, then tried to do as KK advised above. Took the Ferrari out at Road America (2.08's in PC1 for reference) and it definitely felt better but still could only manage 2.16's. Everything felt better than the mcLaren but still the same issues i listed in the OP but to a lesser extent. Through the carousel I must have lost 2 seconds to PC1.

Jumped on UTUBE and tried the settings by some random dude with a squillion hits, decided to see what online looked like and joined a race. It forced the M3 GT3 on me and finally, it felt better. Still not quite dialed in but felt better. Race was abandoned so tried another at the Glen that forced the GT3 Z4 on me, again felt better, reasonably planted.

So feeling better but not sure if its just the cars I chose or if i hit the right controller settings.

TBH the game is a bit dissappointing, i have the following issues;

- graphics just look odd, too blocky in the background, car seems floaty
- AA everywhere, what a mess, it's really, really bad
- teeny tiny font for online UI and settings changes
- Settings saving still seems a bit odd, I thought they were track specific but i swear the same settings poppe dup in two different tracks
- sounds just seem off, i dunno, flat
- the pace of drivers online a bit of a worry, maybe just dumb luck so far but despite feeling at odds with the cars i was clearly the fastest on track and by some margin, though i suspect it is because i don't qualify for the higher rated races

I'll get back on it tonight.

Mahjik
04-01-2018, 13:53
- Settings saving still seems a bit odd, I thought they were track specific but i swear the same settings poppe dup in two different tracks


You have the option to save your setups to be track specific, or global.

John Hargreaves
04-01-2018, 14:06
I've spent the last couple of days on setting up my controller on the PS4. I stripped everything down to zero, then changed one parameter at a time until it felt right. Now this is using the analogue thumbsticks; I was just like you, it took me a long time to get away from the buttons and D-pad, but it is worth the effort. There are only a few parameters that make a significant difference, others can be left default. This is what I've ended up with, tested mainly on GT4 cars, but I've had it working on faster ones, but they tend to be a bit more twitchy, in which case you can reduce steering sensitivity. Try these and see what you think:
Steering deadzone - 2 (assuming your controller is quite new, otherwise increase this a bit)
Steering sensitivity - 20 (can be between 15-25 depending on how twitchy the car is)
Speed sensitivity - 80 (between 70-95 seems the best range)
Controller Damping - 35
everything else default, using ABS and TC.

Alfisti
04-01-2018, 14:08
I can only help with the gt/lmp cars. Controller is a lot more simple in this game. My controller logic is basically the default but with steering, brake, and throttle sensitivity on 0. The only slider I really spend time dialing in is the controller sensitivity. For me, that slider adjusts how much counter steering bite the control has so I adjust that to where I can counter steer and catch the car without it jerking me the other way to much....... For car setup logic, my main go-to thing is the power ramp and coast ramp adjustment of the rear diff settings. I like a high number power ramp because the high the number the less the rear of the car will swing around under power. A higher number also lets you just nail the throttle to bring it out off a sideways slide. The coast ramp I like a lower setting because the lower the setting the more you can throw the car into a corner with out spinning out but to low wont allow the car to turn or rotate. You can easily adjust how much turn the car has. My second go to car set up setting is adding rear down force and lowering front downforce. My 3rd and final thing are bump stops. The higher the bump stops the easier it is to catch slides because the soft/low bump stops the car will just float instead of being a solid platform when driving.

Found this too twitchy using the D pad, i like the idea but too twitchy.

Alfisti
04-01-2018, 14:11
I've spent the last couple of days on setting up my controller on the PS4. I stripped everything down to zero, then changed one parameter at a time until it felt right. Now this is using the analogue thumbsticks; I was just like you, it took me a long time to get away from the buttons and D-pad, but it is worth the effort. There are only a few parameters that make a significant difference, others can be left default. This is what I've ended up with, tested mainly on GT4 cars, but I've had it working on faster ones, but they tend to be a bit more twitchy, in which case you can reduce steering sensitivity. Try these and see what you think:
Steering deadzone - 2 (assuming your controller is quite new, otherwise increase this a bit)
Steering sensitivity - 20 (can be between 15-25 depending on how twitchy the car is)
Speed sensitivity - 80 (between 70-95 seems the best range)
Controller Damping - 35
everything else default, using ABS and TC.

Thanks!

It's weird, using the sticks and triggers i feel absolutely LOST, just LOST. Can't even keep the car straight it's a nightmare. So I revert to the pad :(

Alfisti
04-01-2018, 14:16
You have the option to save your setups to be track specific, or global.

Yeah saw that, liked it too. I could swear (though it's hard to tell with the miniscule font!) that I changed and renamed settings at Spa then used the same car at the Glen and changed settings, when i went to save the Glen ALREADY had a file with the same name, this makes no sense as I had not raced there in the game yet. I change the Stable setting to Stable Me after making changes and it was there, at the Glen, but i'd not been there before.

Weird.

PulpDogg
04-01-2018, 14:41
I've spent the last couple of days on setting up my controller on the PS4. I stripped everything down to zero, then changed one parameter at a time until it felt right. Now this is using the analogue thumbsticks; I was just like you, it took me a long time to get away from the buttons and D-pad, but it is worth the effort. There are only a few parameters that make a significant difference, others can be left default. This is what I've ended up with, tested mainly on GT4 cars, but I've had it working on faster ones, but they tend to be a bit more twitchy, in which case you can reduce steering sensitivity. Try these and see what you think:
Steering deadzone - 2 (assuming your controller is quite new, otherwise increase this a bit)
Steering sensitivity - 20 (can be between 15-25 depending on how twitchy the car is)
Speed sensitivity - 80 (between 70-95 seems the best range)
Controller Damping - 35
everything else default, using ABS and TC.

What are you using the right analog stick for?

John Hargreaves
04-01-2018, 16:55
Hardly use it really, I just rest my thumb on the side edge of it, otherwise it's default lookaroundcam. I steer with the left thumb, brake with left trigger and gas on the right trigger. I'm pretty rubbish with a controller, I just don't have that fine dexterity that 21st century digital age kids have, hence running with most assists on. I'm enjoying it like this though.

HLR Toffo
04-01-2018, 17:08
Yeah i loaded stable, all i did was reduce the rear downforce.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why your having problems. Try Reduce front downforce not the rear, i do that on most cars except formula cars.

John Hargreaves
04-01-2018, 17:16
Thanks!

It's weird, using the sticks and triggers i feel absolutely LOST, just LOST. Can't even keep the car straight it's a nightmare. So I revert to the pad :(

Have you tried racing the Ginetta G40? It's one of the most fun cars to race in the whole game and the most stable. Good place to start.

Alfisti
04-01-2018, 17:27
Have you tried racing the Ginetta G40? It's one of the most fun cars to race in the whole game and the most stable. Good place to start.

Nah, i've only played a few hours and I have baseline times in my head from PC1 on GT3, I know the times are a bit slower on PC2 but it gives me a baseline to work with. Plus online, if you're not racing GT3 your choice is poor, initially anyway.

blinkngone
05-01-2018, 00:23
Hi Alfisti, sorry you are having problems with the new game but keep at it and hopefully you find a solution with your controller. Since the latest patch, at least on TT/PC the better car appears to be the BMW GT3. I have a pad setup for TT posted in the Garage. Rinpoku-pc is probably the best pad user on PC and I can get some of his setups for you to try until you get used to the new game. hhkraft300 will most likely help you if you PM him as well.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58129-Setup-Requests-for-Cosoles(pictures)-Post-Patch-3-0&p=1443128&viewfull=1#post1443128

Javaniceday
05-01-2018, 02:30
I use a controller, old school, no sticks or triggers, I use the X and square button and the pad. I know, i know ... but it is what it is,

- When braking, it is locking up extremely easily, I have zero confidence. My marker into Murray's corner is where the signage changes to the right, I brake hard, the car is a little loose to help turn in then power it hard onto the front straight. Even braking well before this point I lock up and understeer off.

As others have said, there is no way to avoid it. You're using digital inputs for controls that are meant to be analog. Neither steering, breaks or throttles are meant to be on-off switches. When going on the breaks irl, you're never supposed to always break all the way down. On throttle, you never go full throttle 100% of the time. Even when using the damper settings for controllers, at the end of the day you're still using digital inputs for controls meant to be analog. The game replicates this.

There is no other solution. Get an xbox pad, and just practice using the triggers and sticks. I use a controller, and I'm reasonably fast. It can be done, it just takes practice.

PulpDogg
05-01-2018, 09:20
As others have said, there is no way to avoid it. You're using digital inputs for controls that are meant to be analog. Neither steering, breaks or throttles are meant to be on-off switches. When going on the breaks irl, you're never supposed to always break all the way down. On throttle, you never go full throttle 100% of the time. Even when using the damper settings for controllers, at the end of the day you're still using digital inputs for controls meant to be analog. The game replicates this.

There is no other solution. Get an xbox pad, and just practice using the triggers and sticks. I use a controller, and I'm reasonably fast. It can be done, it just takes practice.

This. I had a lengthy testing session last night, because I want to permanently switch to tilt motion on the PS4 controller. During that testing, I also switched off the driving aids (or put them on authentic), which meant no ABS in most cases. I really had to learn to go softly on the brakes so that the tyres won't squeal.

Same with the throttle. I learned yesterday, that the sound the M6 GT3 makes in the early gears comes when the engine revves to high - so I can counter that by not just mashing the throttle down and by shifting up just before he hits 6k revves.

This game really is a sim and it needs a lot of practice.

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 13:27
Hi Alfisti, sorry you are having problems with the new game but keep at it and hopefully you find a solution with your controller. Since the latest patch, at least on TT/PC the better car appears to be the BMW GT3. I have a pad setup for TT posted in the Garage. Rinpoku-pc is probably the best pad user on PC and I can get some of his setups for you to try until you get used to the new game. hhkraft300 will most likely help you if you PM him as well.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58129-Setup-Requests-for-Cosoles(pictures)-Post-Patch-3-0&p=1443128&viewfull=1#post1443128

Wow thanks, I will give this a whirl!

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 13:29
This game really is a sim and it needs a lot of practice.

Maybe therein lies the issue, i just do not have the time to devote that much practice to it. I cannot get within 10 seconds of my PC1 pace, I realise PC2 is a couple of seconds a lap slower so i am a solid 7 to 8 seconds off my PC1 pace.

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 14:01
OK seems the night before was a mirage, I am back to where i started. i could rant all day but let's take a lap of the Nurburgring GP with me in the car i am most comfortable with, the Z4 GT3.

As a reference, on PCARS1 I was doing very solid 1.57's, so figure 1.59 or 2.00 is where i needed to be as PC2 is slower I am told. Fastest guy online crossed the line at 2.00 so i was on the money. My best time was 2.08. 8 freaking seconds a lap slower than i should be.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/N%C3%BCrburgring_-_Grand-Prix-Strecke.svg

T1: Braking well before my reference point of the second brake marker from PC1. The car still locks up/understeers, when i release the brake i get snap oversteer. Exit oversteer.

T2: Chronic understeer, cannot get it pointed in, takes forever to get on the power into T3

T3/4: Always struggled here in PC1 but even worse now, unbelievable understeer

T5: I was a beast here in PC1, now i get initial understeer then chronic oversteer mid corner, car is all over the place

T6: Not bad, a little loose but not bad

T7: Again, loose and horrible braking but not too bad on exit and mid corner

T8/9: OMG. I always took this flat or a slight lift. Just HORRIBLE now, i cannot hit the apex to save my life (a consistent theme) I either wildly oversteer to the left or under off to the right. Nightmare.

T10: Massive understeer, always a tricky corner but i used to tap the brake to loosen the car a little to help turn in, if i do that now i spin, if i don't ... understeer

T11: Slightly better than PC1, i can get on it pretty early whereas i used to understeer

T13/14: So uncertain under brakes as per T1, NFI what is going to happen

T15: Better than PC1, i can get on it earlier

Looking at that it appears, on paper, that the car is too loose (see turns 11, 15, 6 and 7). BUT I am still understeering like crazy in slow corners and more importantly i cannot hit apexes at all, i almost always run wide or turn in too early. Braking is a nightmare, cannot describe how bad it is.

Y'all can go back to bed now :)

PulpDogg
05-01-2018, 14:19
Have you tried switching the controller to tilt motion? That should make the steering a lot smoother.

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 15:38
No but i may give it a lash, my issue is time, i don't have a lot.

I can type all day but the two videos side by side on this thread really sums it up, this is exactly how i feel, I am all over the place.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/378860/discussions/1/1496741765139563839/

John Hargreaves
05-01-2018, 17:01
That guy is driving a 500hp racing car with his thumbs, and no TC or SC, you would need a very high level of skill to do that under any circumstances either in real life or a simulation. I don't understand why that guy is playing without even traction control enabled and then complaining he can't control the car.

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 17:05
Didn't realise that, fair comment, I use all assists other than braking to compensate.

I have a wheel in the basement, just sitting there, but the reality is i just cannot use it, driving me nuts. I am giving this game two more nights before downloading GT Sport and giving that a go.

senna94f1
05-01-2018, 18:08
Well it's time my friend to invest in a ffb wheel ,

They are cheap and a very good starter wheel is thrustmaster T150 for around £100 including delivery ,

If you can afford £200 then the T300 is a mich more better wheel ,

These can be bought from www box.co.uk

On a pad I can only use the X for throttle and square for brake and D pad for left and right ,

A pad was ok for pcars1 but Pcars 2 is a top class sim racer and a ffb wheel will enhance your game ,

And most people including me thought they will be blindingly faster ushering a wheel ,with me I was 2 to 3 seconds slower when I started using wheel on Pcars 1 ps4 ,

Saying that I've always had a ffb wheel since windows 1998 and I still have that wheel sitting on top of my wardrobe lol,

Hope this helps and it's practice and practice and more practice which will make you faster on this sim ,

Most people don't realise Pcars 2 is nothing like the first game and is far more harder ,hence its a sim,

And Hargreaves has a very good point ,you will end up with huge body builder thumbs so much you won't be able to pick your nose lol

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 19:17
I have one, in the basement. It's a basic Thrustmaster T150 with plastic pedals but it's brand spanking new.

Issue is, my PS4 is in the family room, i cannot leave the wheel, seat and stand in there, i'd need to drag it all up and plug in EVERY TIME. TBH I have the space in the basement and budget for a full rig, proper one, but wife will feel unloved if i disappear downstairs every night. Right now she streams her soapie on her laptop and i play but we are right near each other and we still talk (even mid corner dammit).

'tis a bind.

Schnizz58
05-01-2018, 19:31
Alfisti I'm no expert here and I don't play with a controller but offhand it sounds like you're struggling for grip in general -- locking under braking, understeering at times, oversteering at others. So I'd start looking for ways to get the tires working better. For starters, what are your warm pressures? I've found most of the default setups, while mostly very good, start out with too much pressure in the tires when cold. Then when they warm up, they end up being over-inflated. This causes an overall lack of grip, which I would guess is a difficult thing to deal with when using a controller. This game has a different feel to me than PC1 and I think it's mostly down to the tire model. Try to get the pressures on that Z4 around 1.8 bar after they warm up and maybe it will stick to the road a bit better.

Alfisti
05-01-2018, 20:00
Alfisti I'm no expert here and I don't play with a controller but offhand it sounds like you're struggling for grip in general -- locking under braking, understeering at times, oversteering at others. So I'd start looking for ways to get the tires working better. For starters, what are your warm pressures? I've found most of the default setups, while mostly very good, start out with too much pressure in the tires when cold. Then when they warm up, they end up being over-inflated. This causes an overall lack of grip, which I would guess is a difficult thing to deal with when using a controller. This game has a different feel to me than PC1 and I think it's mostly down to the tire model. Try to get the pressures on that Z4 around 1.8 bar after they warm up and maybe it will stick to the road a bit better.

Yeah good question, was going to ask a few things like that actually. My rears are taking a long time to get warm compared to the fronts.

- So roughly pressure of 1.8 bar warm GT3 tyres?
- What colour should the tyres be other than black (lol I made a funny), as in bright green or sort of yellow tinged green?
- What are the equivalent settings to the old Decel and Accell lock?
- Why are my tyres ( i think, or is it brakes???) always smoking?? Upon exit or through corners there's thick smoke from the outside wheel, why???

Braking has me absolutely lost, my PC1 set up was ro run 50/50 front and back or even a touch towards rear, this helped me rotate the car upon entry, then i'd have coast lock to 0 on GT3 cars, or maybe just a little like 10, to help me rotate mid corner.

Now, it's set to 60/40 but i dare not go any further back because she just snaps out from under me but i understeer like freaking crazy.

Schnizz58
05-01-2018, 20:32
- So roughly pressure of 1.8 bar warm GT3 tyres?
Yes, 1.8 bar for GT3 tires. Other tires will have different optimum pressures. Find the thread called "Tyre temps" or something like that (it's about 15 pages or so) and there is a post by one of the staff (Casey?) that outlines the best pressures for most cars. ETA: Link to thread -> http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2

- What colour should the tyres be other than black (lol I made a funny), as in bright green or sort of yellow tinged green?
Don't worry so much about the temperature. I've yet to warm up a set of hard slicks all the way. Your front outside tire will usually be yellow-green and the others a darker green but that's OK. Pressure is the key.

- What are the equivalent settings to the old Decel and Accell lock?
In the clutch diff, the equivalents are the power ramp angle and coast ramp angle. Higher values mean less locking; 90° means no locking; 0° means full lock.

- Why are my tyres ( i think, or is it brakes???) always smoking?? Upon exit or through corners there's thick smoke from the outside wheel, why???
That's a graphical bug to be fixed in an upcoming patch. Don't worry about it.

Sum Dixon-Ear
06-01-2018, 12:43
I have one, in the basement. It's a basic Thrustmaster T150 with plastic pedals but it's brand spanking new.

Issue is, my PS4 is in the family room, i cannot leave the wheel, seat and stand in there, i'd need to drag it all up and plug in EVERY TIME. TBH I have the space in the basement and budget for a full rig, proper one, but wife will feel unloved if i disappear downstairs every night. Right now she streams her soapie on her laptop and i play but we are right near each other and we still talk (even mid corner dammit).

'tis a bind.

I'm in the same boat as you... I have to dismantle this bugger all the time and stash it away as it's in the living room. My missus and daughter are usually streaming movies on the PC in the same room while I race, so I chat to my virtual pals and family at the same time. It's worth the hassle moving the rig just to enjoy racing at it's best, it really is.

248389

Alfisti
06-01-2018, 15:20
- So roughly pressure of 1.8 bar warm GT3 tyres?
Yes, 1.8 bar for GT3 tires. Other tires will have different optimum pressures. Find the thread called "Tyre temps" or something like that (it's about 15 pages or so) and there is a post by one of the staff (Casey?) that outlines the best pressures for most cars. ETA: Link to thread -> http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?55303-Tire-temps-pcars-2

- What colour should the tyres be other than black (lol I made a funny), as in bright green or sort of yellow tinged green?
Don't worry so much about the temperature. I've yet to warm up a set of hard slicks all the way. Your front outside tire will usually be yellow-green and the others a darker green but that's OK. Pressure is the key.

- What are the equivalent settings to the old Decel and Accell lock?
In the clutch diff, the equivalents are the power ramp angle and coast ramp angle. Higher values mean less locking; 90° means no locking; 0° means full lock.

- Why are my tyres ( i think, or is it brakes???) always smoking?? Upon exit or through corners there's thick smoke from the outside wheel, why???
That's a graphical bug to be fixed in an upcoming patch. Don't worry about it.


Many thanks, appreciate the detail and I had coast lock wrong!!! Praying g that is my understanding issue as I would it back to near 0 on most cars.

The first link on tyre pressures is a bit concerning, this game may well need an arcade mode, if I need the tyres in the right windows to keep it on the island then man that's a lot of futzing around.

Alfisti
06-01-2018, 15:22
I'm in the same boat as you... I have to dismantle this bugger all the time and stash it away as it's in the living room. My missus and daughter are usually streaming movies on the PC in the same room while I race, so I chat to my virtual pals and family at the same time. It's worth the hassle moving the rig just to enjoy racing at it's best, it really is.

248389

Hats off. I'd need to trawl it out from the basemwnt which adds complication but hats off.

Sum Dixon-Ear
06-01-2018, 15:59
Hats off. I'd need to trawl it out from the basemwnt which adds complication but hats off.

Lugging a rig up and down from the basement is less than ideal, granted. We have a somewhat 'modest' abode, so space was a major factor regarding my set up, the stand slots under the seat and the pedals rest on top when not in use resulting in the whole lot only taking up the footprint of the seat... it can fit in a very small space indeed. Maybe you could blag a corner somewhere?

248395

Alfisti
06-01-2018, 16:10
Lugging a rig up and down from the basement is less than ideal, granted. We have a somewhat 'modest' abode, so space was a major factor regarding my set up, the stand slots under the seat and the pedals rest on top when not in use resulting in the whole lot only taking up the footprint of the seat... it can fit in a very small space indeed. Maybe you could blag a corner somewhere?

248395

I have a ton of space but nowhere to hide the rig on the ground floor.

Where's the seat in that image???? Folded?

Sum Dixon-Ear
06-01-2018, 16:16
I have a ton of space but nowhere to hide the rig on the ground floor.

Where's the seat in that image???? Folded?

Yeah, that was my original Playseat chair which folded completely flat.

Alfisti
08-01-2018, 13:47
Losing my freaking mind. Getting absolutely nowhere.

I have no idea what is so off but there's a guy I used to race on PC1, I was slightly quicker, he's doing 2.07's at Road America (BMW Z4 GT3) and i can't do better than 2.16s.

Braking is my number one issue, I have no idea what is going to happen when I hit the brakes and when i release them. I brake, nowhere near as deep as i used to, she locks up, understeers. I release the brake and the car will either continue on it's merry way understeering off or i'll get snap oversteer.

Tried playing with every braking settings, a few of the diff settings too but something is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong. I have absolutely zero confidence at each corner, no idea what to expect.

Wearing me a bit thin TBH.

gregc
08-01-2018, 14:02
Losing my freaking mind. Getting absolutely nowhere.

I have no idea what is so off but there's a guy I used to race on PC1, I was slightly quicker, he's doing 2.07's at Road America (BMW Z4 GT3) and i can't do better than 2.16s.

Braking is my number one issue, I have no idea what is going to happen when I hit the brakes and when i release them. I brake, nowhere near as deep as i used to, she locks up, understeers. I release the brake and the car will either continue on it's merry way understeering off or i'll get snap oversteer.

Tried playing with every braking settings, a few of the diff settings too but something is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong. I have absolutely zero confidence at each corner, no idea what to expect.

Wearing me a bit thin TBH.

You're using the face buttons, so your brakes (well, everything really...) are an on/off switch. If you haven't tried this already, go into setup and turn up ABS to 95 or 100.

Alfisti
08-01-2018, 14:08
You're using the face buttons, so your brakes (well, everything really...) are an on/off switch. If you haven't tried this already, go into setup and turn up ABS to 95 or 100.

Yeah but they were on PC1 too, what has changed so much?? i was never captain fast but I could hussle for a podium online, now i am one of those giblets careening into every corner.

Tried that, she locks up, relentlessly. I try to brake earlier but I am SO SLOW.

hkraft300
08-01-2018, 15:38
Yeah but they were on PC1 too, what has changed so much?? i was never captain fast but I could hussle for a podium online, now i am one of those giblets careening into every corner.

Tried that, she locks up, relentlessly. I try to brake earlier but I am SO SLOW.

The tire model has changed a lot. You’d know the difference if you spend 15 minutes with a wheel.

Try high abs and reduce brake pressure to not lock the tires.

You brake, lock, cook the tires while braking and expect them to turn in, too? Not happening. They can’t handle it.

Reduce brake pressure as adjust bias to avoid locking. This will at least solve your corner entry issue.

Edit: you might also be braking way too late.

John Hargreaves
08-01-2018, 15:48
Using the digital button with no abs is just slamming the brakes 100% every time you touch them - imagine what that would be like in a real car. Sorry mate, I think the only thing to do is come offline, go back to gamepad school and retrain your fingers and thumbs. I totally sympathise cos I was in the same place in the past, but the extra control you get from analogue steering, accelerating and braking is worth the effort. It really is satisfying when you take a fast turn and hold the angle, just clipping the apex and taking the perfect line. Time to say goodbye to the nineties and join the digital age kids with their twitchy clever little thumbs (which I personally will never attain) :cool:

Alfisti
08-01-2018, 15:49
I'll give it a lash.

I am not braking late, when i race online I am being nudged in braking zones because i am so early, I am way, way earlier than my PC1 markers. Into T3 at Road America, I used to brake just after the road really starts dipping, car would get a tickly loose which would help me turn her in to the very tight left.

I am braking well before this, she locks up, understeers, i release the brake and she snaps on me, back end come around. I am some 10 seconds slower than guys I used to beat, it's like an alien product to me now.

In regards to tyres, I notice they get cold REALLY fast now, as in I slow down a little because I had (another) off and the tyres go bright green and PSI drops quickly. Having trouble getting the tyres hot rather than cooking them, dropped pressures yesterday based on advice above and that seems to help for a lap or two but once i have an off it just degenerates.

Alfisti
08-01-2018, 15:51
Using the digital button with no abs is just slamming the brakes 100% every time you touch them - imagine what that would be like in a real car. Sorry mate, I think the only thing to do is come offline, go back to gamepad school and retrain your fingers and thumbs. I totally sympathise cos I was in the same place in the past, but the extra control you get from analogue steering, accelerating and braking is worth the effort. It really is satisfying when you take a fast turn and hold the angle, just clipping the apex and taking the perfect line. Time to say goodbye to the nineties and join the digital age kids with their twitchy clever little thumbs (which I personally will never attain) :cool:

I'm gonna have to, can't keep going like this, it's insane how bad i am.

I still have a nagging feeling that a setting somewhere is wrong either in the controller or the car set ups. It's not like I am chasing a few seconds, i am miles and miles off the pace. In PC1 I was in trouble for days on end then changed the steering sensitivity and felt better, discovered the decel lock to loosen the car in tight turns and whalla, i was in business.

John Hargreaves
08-01-2018, 17:59
I'm much more clumsy with a pad than a wheel, and my times are definitely slower. On PS4 I'm using the stable setups with ABS and TC, + SC on the more powerful cars, and I'm definitely getting a bit better with practice. I spent a long time last week setting up my controller from scratch, so I've got to a point where I'm really enjoying the game rather than battling with it. I still have to have the AI down pretty low though, which is a humbling experience in one way, but if I'm having fun, who cares.
The GT3s are more twitchy, GT4s are best for me, and some of the more difficult cars I'm happy to leave to my PC. Between AC, GTS and PC2 on PS4, I'm having most fun on PC2 by far.

hkraft300
08-01-2018, 23:09
...
I am braking well before this, she locks up, understeers, i release the brake and she snaps on me, back end come around. I am some 10 seconds slower than guys I used to beat, it's like an alien product to me now.

You brake that early in road America you'll lock it. You're on full force brake then the road dips away, the car "goes light" and you lose grip then the wheels lock.

On a wheel or triggers it's not a problem, you can half brake, 75/80/90% brake, you can ease off and trail the brake to the apex... not with the square button though. It's 100% or nothing. It's standing on the anchors or nothing.

Yes, PC2 isn't so much a sequel but a completely different game. With similar graphic style and menu music.

That's about it, really.

Alfisti
09-01-2018, 13:09
OK you are onto something.

I loaded stable settings, reduced braking to 75%, increased ABS to 90% and moved decel lock to 75% to help reduce the understeer.

Had my first night where i could push, a little at least. The NSX is quite stable, ran it around the RBR and Algrave for a qualy and race and was doing 1.35's, slow but at least thereabouts. I was, for the first time, able to step on it and able to brake later and later until I hit my spot, well sort of , both tracks were new to me so i was feeling my way around.

It still feels weird, the transition from braking to release is still very clunky imho. For that matter, so are fast corners, the cars seem to both understeer AND get loose, which is weird, in PC1 they pretty much just understeered unless you were running REALLY loose settings.

Mahjik
09-01-2018, 13:25
in PC1 they pretty much just understeered unless you were running REALLY loose settings.

Yes, this was a problem with PC1 and something that was rectified in PC2. A lot of things PC1 drivers got away with won't work in PC2.

Alfisti
09-01-2018, 13:29
Yes, this was a problem with PC1 and something that was rectified in PC2. A lot of things PC1 drivers got away with won't work in PC2.

Ya don't say.

CSL-Drive
10-01-2018, 08:04
The joystick in pc2 was bugged for both ps4 and pc, with 50% deadzone for steering on left thumbstick and 0 deadzone when steering with right thumbstick. Did they fix that?

50% input caused full steering lock, meaning pc2 had 50% less accuracy than any other game. I even had better times on iRacing, playing with a joystick.

gregc
10-01-2018, 08:51
The joystick in pc2 was bugged for both ps4 and pc, with 50% deadzone for steering on left thumbstick and 0 deadzone when steering with right thumbstick. Did they fix that?

50% input caused full steering lock, meaning pc2 had 50% less accuracy than any other game. I even had better times on iRacing, playing with a joystick.

What type of pad? I've been playing on PC with a pad since forever (well, since WMD2 began) and have never had this problem.

drathuu
10-01-2018, 10:15
Yeah but they were on PC1 too, what has changed so much?? i was never captain fast but I could hussle for a podium online, now i am one of those giblets careening into every corner.

Tried that, she locks up, relentlessly. I try to brake earlier but I am SO SLOW.

I would say they went from Semi easymode Arcade game PC1 to simulation PC2. Hence On/Off no longer works, your braking earlier and locking (Because brakes are going from 0 to 100% application).. (but then holding 100% application).. You can brake hard with high downforce, but then need to ease off as downforce lowers.. (If not, Lockups will just extend your braking distance, superheat the tyres and over inflate), causing other issues.. You then struggle when lifting off.. because weight transitiion and suspension are modelled more accurately.. (an instant change), will cause car imbalance.

In essence its simulating 10-100 times more information than PC1.. Hence why the consoles graphics had to be toned down to support the more detailed simulation. Comparing to Pc1 times is invariably pointless.

Some great advise in this thread, however realistically without going to analogue and/or wheel pedals, you will improve, but will struggle to get real good times.

John Hargreaves
10-01-2018, 10:27
The joystick in pc2 was bugged for both ps4 and pc, with 50% deadzone for steering on left thumbstick and 0 deadzone when steering with right thumbstick. Did they fix that?

50% input caused full steering lock, meaning pc2 had 50% less accuracy than any other game. I even had better times on iRacing, playing with a joystick.

I don't recognise this; the default deadzone for steering was 7 (%?) and I prefer to run it at 3, which gives a lot of sensitivity with the left thumbstick. The tiniest move will have you change direction, but if you balance that with quite low steering sensitivity, gives really fine control over small corrections. It's even better at speed when speed sensitive steeing kicks in.

Mad Al
10-01-2018, 10:40
What type of pad? I've been playing on PC with a pad since forever (well, since WMD2 began) and have never had this problem.


I don't recognise this; the default deadzone for steering was 7 (%?) and I prefer to run it at 3, which gives a lot of sensitivity with the left thumbstick. The tiniest move will have you change direction, but if you balance that with quite low steering sensitivity, gives really fine control over small corrections. It's even better at speed when speed sensitive steeing kicks in.

Appears he has an issue (which I can't replicate)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?58248-Joystick-pc-ps4-bug-50-L-thumb-100-R-thumb

John Hargreaves
10-01-2018, 11:57
So it's not the actual front wheels that go 100%, just the steering animation on the cockpit view?

Alfisti
10-01-2018, 13:01
I would say they went from Semi easymode Arcade game PC1 to simulation PC2. Hence On/Off no longer works, your braking earlier and locking (Because brakes are going from 0 to 100% application).. (but then holding 100% application).. You can brake hard with high downforce, but then need to ease off as downforce lowers.. (If not, Lockups will just extend your braking distance, superheat the tyres and over inflate), causing other issues.. You then struggle when lifting off.. because weight transitiion and suspension are modelled more accurately.. (an instant change), will cause car imbalance.

In essence its simulating 10-100 times more information than PC1.. Hence why the consoles graphics had to be toned down to support the more detailed simulation. Comparing to Pc1 times is invariably pointless.

Some great advise in this thread, however realistically without going to analogue and/or wheel pedals, you will improve, but will struggle to get real good times.

then truth be told, this may not be the game for me anymore. Of the console racing games, i really like the "ye old englishman" aspect of Project Cars, the Caterhams, the old tracks etc. But it's just too hard now.

Alfisti
11-01-2018, 13:14
OK starting to get somewhere.

HKraft got me pointed the right way with the ABS and brake pressure settings, I have also found the other absolute key is engine braking. In PC1 I ran it at 0 to rotate the car on lift, in PC2 this is a big mistake. I need to set it around the mid point and this has all but cured the viscous unpredictability when i lift off the brake. Tyres were also important, at 24+ PSI they feel a lot better.

I have also found that all settings are a LOT more sensitive, sometimes in PC1 you'd change things and barely feel it but now, one click of downforce or especially the anti roll bars make a big difference, you can definitely feel it.

Finished 4th at Spa in a lobby race, field of 16, only concern is that the top three were 3 to 4 seconds a lap faster but at least I am racing. Ran 1.33's at RBR but i am still learning the track and the limits so feel with more practice and more time sorting the car i can run a 31, maaaaaybe a 30.

Malcstar
11-01-2018, 13:21
For your control style that's pretty impressive from where I stand. I'm a 32 on analog.

Alfisti
11-01-2018, 13:24
For your control style that's pretty impressive from where I stand. I'm a 32 on analog.

THanks.

It's a REAL weird track, there's SO MUCH time in the right angle corners, so much run off and so much potential to save time if you nail it but you need laps there, lots of them.

Alfisti
16-01-2018, 13:25
Yeah i think i have had enough. I simply cannot brake with any consistency, nor get on the power with any consistency. Forget my pace i cannot even keep the car on the road. I have a three week trip home to OZ soon, when i come back i'll give GTS a try.

Honestly have no idea, wheel or no wheel, how other drivers look so stable, i am always on a knife edge.

hkraft300
16-01-2018, 13:50
...
Honestly have no idea, wheel or no wheel, how other drivers look so stable, i am always on a knife edge.

Honestly, you've been told.


You're using the face buttons, so your brakes (well, everything really...) are an on/off switch.


Using the digital button with no abs is just slamming the brakes 100% every time you touch them - imagine what that would be like in a real car. Sorry mate, I think the only thing to do is come offline, go back to gamepad school and retrain your fingers and thumbs.

Pcars2 is sim.
You can put all assists on, abs 100, tc 1 and have the game drive for you.
Or try those thumbsticks and triggers. They're pretty good.

R2 accelerate, L2 brake, left stick (L3) steering - was my control config on pc1.

Then I got a wheel.

iggy
16-01-2018, 14:15
I don't know how people drive with controllers.. But then, back when I first got my wheel, I was confused how people could actually drive so fast with a wheel... at the time , I was playing GT, and thought I was fast, when I got the wheel my lap times suffered big time at first...

fast forward to PC2... I never even tried to play it with a controller until a month or so in, I was having problems with gout , which if you've ever had gout, would know that you can have pain even without ever having any physical contact with the painful area ( usually your big toe ). So, anyway, I couldn't use a brake peddle on my wheel setup, but desperately wanted to continue to play PS2... So, I got out the dual shock controller... OMG, I have no idea how people can go fast with a controller.

PulpDogg
16-01-2018, 14:28
I don't know how people drive with controllers.. But then, back when I first got my wheel, I was confused how people could actually drive so fast with a wheel... at the time , I was playing GT, and thought I was fast, when I got the wheel my lap times suffered big time at first...

fast forward to PC2... I never even tried to play it with a controller until a month or so in, I was having problems with gout , which if you've ever had gout, would know that you can have pain even without ever having any physical contact with the painful area ( usually your big toe ). So, anyway, I couldn't use a brake peddle on my wheel setup, but desperately wanted to continue to play PS2... So, I got out the dual shock controller... OMG, I have no idea how people can go fast with a controller.

Tilt motion for steering. L2 and R2 as Brake/Acceleration.

I am not very fast, but that is more due to being not practiced enough, not due to the controller.

cbrown119
16-01-2018, 14:46
I had the same problems until I found the best settings (for me)

It took awhile, a lot of YT and reading posts here.

I wanted to share them with others, maybe it’ll help them too.

Steering DZ 2
Steering sensitivity. 62
Throttle DZ. 2
Throttle sensitivity. 80
Brake DZ. 0
Brake sensitivity. 55
Clutch DZ. 10
Clutch sensitivity. 25
Speed sensitivity. 95
Damper saturation. 100
Controller damping. 80
Controller vibration. 50
Maximum shift time. 0

Steering DZ/sensitivity adjustments help me remove the twitchiness from my driving. I started with SS at 70 and reduced it as needed.

I increased Throttle DZ an increment at a time because I was too heavy on the throttle coming out of a turn and would end up spinning out.

Same with the brake sensitivity. I was too heavy on the brake and lowered it for a smoother ride.

With these settings, I restarted my career with Formula Rookie and had some of my best experiences with pc2. My only adjustments since using these settings was with the race engineer. I had the suspension tweeked to help me keep control while entering turns.


I graduated from formula rookie to sc lites. Plus stated a new career with the mustang. Such a fun and intense game, once the settings fit the user. Plus I’m not the greatest driver, so I have to dumb down the AI to give me a chance.

Great game!!!

Hope this helps anyone who needs it

iggy
16-01-2018, 14:55
Tilt motion for steering. L2 and R2 as Brake/Acceleration.

I am not very fast, but that is more due to being not practiced enough, not due to the controller.

I haven't tried tilt motion yet... From what I read, on PS4, there's a bit of lag that's problematic when doing it ??

I should at least give it a try, I know using the analog thumb stick for steering wasn't working for me.

I don't understand why someone doesn't make a controller similar to RC car racing controllers, that have a wheel on the side, and throttle is done with a finger trigger... Surely there's a market for a good hand held way to easily control a race car on a computer SIM/game.

Something similar to one of these... 248783

iggy
16-01-2018, 14:58
I haven't tried tilt motion yet... From what I read, on PS4, there's a bit of lag that's problematic when doing it ??

I should at least give it a try, I know using the analog thumb stick for steering wasn't working for me.

I don't understand why someone doesn't make a controller similar to RC car racing controllers, that have a wheel on the side, and throttle is done with a finger trigger... Surely there's a market for a good hand held way to easily control a race car on a computer SIM/game.

Something similar to one of these... 248783

Someone did make something , at least at one time...

248784

PulpDogg
16-01-2018, 16:20
I haven't tried tilt motion yet... From what I read, on PS4, there's a bit of lag that's problematic when doing it ??


I don't experience any lag - but maybe I am not good enough a driver yet and make too many other mistakes to notice. Takes a while to get used to and you have to fiddle with the controller setup a bit, but after that it works like a charm for me.

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 13:11
It was the assists, they turned themselves off. I had no TC or ABS or ESP. Yeah, yeah I shouldn't use it for the purists but i do, it's more about the racing than the driving for me.

How they turned off I have NFI but they did. I turned them on, I was far more planted, entered a lobby race, was hit up the duff so went back to check my settings and yep .... they were off again!

Anyone else find this?

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 13:25
It was the assists, they turned themselves off. I had no TC or ABS or ESP. Yeah, yeah I shouldn't use it for the purists but i do, it's more about the racing than the driving for me.

How they turned off I have NFI but they did. I turned them on, I was far more planted, entered a lobby race, was hit up the duff so went back to check my settings and yep .... they were off again!

Anyone else find this?

I dont race online so I cant confirm your issue, but perhaps you are entering a lobby where certain driver assists were forced off?

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 13:49
I dont race online so I cant confirm your issue, but perhaps you are entering a lobby where certain driver assists were forced off?

Yeah I look out for that but i am talking n my actual settings they are off.

I THINK it happens after i enter lobby races with assists off, it then turns them off at my root settings. Happened twice last night, I change them to on, all except braking assist, I save and exit then re-enter settings to see that they saved and they did. I go race in a lobby with assists off and afterwards i check my settings and they are all turned off.

SO

MANY

BUGS.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 13:58
Yeah I look out for that but i am talking n my actual settings they are off.

I THINK it happens after i enter lobby races with assists off, it then turns them off at my root settings. Happened twice last night, I change them to on, all except braking assist, I save and exit then re-enter settings to see that they saved and they did. I go race in a lobby with assists off and afterwards i check my settings and they are all turned off.

SO

MANY

BUGS.

I may be misunderstanding you but appear to be claiming LOUDLY that this is a bug when it may not be.

You set your assists to on, enter a lobby with assists off, so the game assumes you want assists off so switches them.

You are acting in a counterintuitive fashion by entering a no assist lobby with your assists set to on, it appears the game is turning off your assists as it assumes that is what you want by your decision to enter the no assist lobby.

Forgive me if I misunderstand you, it's quite possible as I don't go online.

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 14:09
You understand me just fine but I don't get how it's not a bug or at least wrong.

In PC1 I ran with assists, i'd enter the odd lobby with assists off if the car was stable, so you know i'd enter GT4 or the little Ginetta races but not the V8SC for example. My root settings would never change, as they shouldn't. My default remained ON, now it changes for no good reason.

That's why i'd report in here one day that i was "getting there" then the next i am all at sea.

Combine this with the random "qualifying is fine but the race is super loose" thing going on (not just me reporting this so i am not nuts) ..... and dear oh deary me is this game hard to keep a track of.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 14:26
You understand me just fine but I don't get how it's not a bug or at least wrong.

In PC1 I ran with assists, i'd enter the odd lobby with assists off if the car was stable, so you know i'd enter GT4 or the little Ginetta races but not the V8SC for example. My root settings would never change, as they shouldn't. My default remained ON, now it changes for no good reason.

That's why i'd report in here one day that i was "getting there" then the next i am all at sea.

Combine this with the random "qualifying is fine but the race is super loose" thing going on (not just me reporting this so i am not nuts) ..... and dear oh deary me is this game hard to keep a track of.

Yes, it may be different, but to go on to claim it is a bug is mistaken. I have suggested what happens now may indeed be more logical, and it is illogical I suggest to enter non assist rooms when you always use assists.

As far as I am aware there is no "qualifying is fine but the race is super loose" thing going on. What may be going on is that people are mistaking changes in track conditions and weather for something else and / or forgetting to load the correct set up, this needs to be done pre q and pre race.

You have had several issues that you have appeared to mistake as bugs that have been resolved when your misunderstandings have been unravelled, i do sympathise, this is a very complex sim and there are many ways a user can trip up but it's attention to detail is what makes it so realistic in my view.

Case in point - I have recently started to use trail braking to keep my car tight in corners and was having trouble pulling it off, I then went through my settings and discovered I had set brake sensitivity to 1 during a previous attempt to make my gear pedal very heavy as I like, I reset to default and my braking is much more responsive on initial application as would be expected and my trail braking skills are now developing well.

I got the gear pedal stiff by correctly using the pedal set up and the earlier sensitivity adjust was an unhelpful red herring.

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 14:56
Yes, it may be different, but to go on to claim it is a bug is mistaken. I have suggested what happens now may indeed be more logical, and it is illogical I suggest to enter non assist rooms when you always use assists.

As far as I am aware there is no "qualifying is fine but the race is super loose" thing going on. What may be going on is that people are mistaking changes in track conditions and weather for something else and / or forgetting to load the correct set up, this needs to be done pre q and pre race.

To me it's wrong, changing the settings at the root level is wrong. Just leave them be and adjust at race level ala PC1.

There is an issue with the car getting loose in races. Search for it on this forum, conditions are the same in qualy and race and the car in race is very loose. No one is reporting understeer vs qualy so it's not just track conditions, something fundamentally changes.

Here, we are not imagining this .....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59986-Qualifying-Grip-vs-Actual-Race-Grip-(Online)

I suspect assists are being turned off between qualy and race, as does the OP.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 15:08
To me it's wrong, changing the settings at the root level is wrong. Just leave them be and adjust at race level ala PC1.

There is an issue with the car getting loose in races. Search for it on this forum, conditions are the same in qualy and race and the car in race is very loose. No one is reporting understeer vs qualy so it's not just track conditions, something fundamentally changes.

Here, we are not imagining this .....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59986-Qualifying-Grip-vs-Actual-Race-Grip-(Online)

I suspect assists are being turned off between qualy and race, as does the OP.

I am aware a discussion is ongoing and it is not one I can comment on as I do not race online, but you should consider continuing to contribute there rather than attempting a duplicate conversation here.

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 15:11
It's relevant to this conversation because apparently I have little to no control over assists in general.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 15:27
It's relevant to this conversation because apparently I have little to no control over assists in general.

You do need to remember that pcars2 is not pcars1.1, it is a much changed game, and one huge change has been the UI. Only a loon would claim the UI is not much improved in pcars2, and perhaps you do need to accept it works differently to how you might prefer in pcars1.

I think your constant comparisons to pcars1 and wishing pcars2 was like pcars1 are getting you nowhere with getting the best from the new title.

Alfisti
17-01-2018, 15:37
UI is much better (if very hard to read in such small font) but there was no need to change the way the baseline settings work and now having them impacted race by race.

Zaskarspants
17-01-2018, 15:42
UI is much better (if very hard to read in such small font) but there was no need to change the way the baseline settings work and now having them impacted race by race.

I dont know what further to say to help you other than to suggest that to enjoy pcars2 you need to divorce pcars 1.

hkraft300
17-01-2018, 20:25
...
There is an issue with the car getting loose in races. Search for it on this forum, conditions are the same in qualy and race and the car in race is very loose. No one is reporting understeer vs qualy so it's not just track conditions, something fundamentally changes.

Here, we are not imagining this .....

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?59986-Qualifying-Grip-vs-Actual-Race-Grip-(Online)

I suspect assists are being turned off between qualy and race, as does the OP.

This happens. Car behaves different from quali to race. I've experienced it

Why does it happen when quali and race conditions are same? Because during quali someone goes out and does 3-4 lap runs and back in the pits before the tires are fully warm. Race starts at a high pressure and, because of poor tuning and no long runs, the brake temperature and tire pressure starts to get way too high making the car lose grip.

User error, not a bug.

Sum Dixon-Ear
17-01-2018, 23:07
This happens. Car behaves different from quali to race. I've experienced it

Why does it happen when quali and race conditions are same? Because during quali someone goes out and does 3-4 lap runs and back in the pits before the tires are fully warm. Race starts at a high pressure and, because of poor tuning and no long runs, the brake temperature and tire pressure starts to get way too high making the car lose grip.

User error, not a bug.

And yet... I've run 15 lap sessions in qualy pushing the car to it's limits, minimum brake ducts, tyres fully up to pressure, nice and hot on all four corners... running sweet at 26psi. Then go to race, ducts opened again, slight pressure reduction to maintain 25/26psi and the car sometimes falls off a cliff after 2-3 laps with normal pressures, brake temps etc?

I may well be an erroneous user, but I'd love to know why it happens when the car tells me that it should be performing as it normally does.... and, more often than not, actually does.

hkraft300
17-01-2018, 23:52
15 laps in quali in 3-4 lap stints is still posing he same problem mate :p

At the grid you're on pressures and temps you haven't tuned for, which takes a few laps to settle.
There are also Aero effects at play, such as slip streaming and losing downforce, which has a big effect racing in traffic.
Psychological: race start adrenaline rush and pressure that make you jostle for position and avoid crashes... realise by now you're well on the cars limits with a few lock ups and aggressive slidey exits.
This makes the car a fraction slippery. Keep pushing and, even if the pressure and temps (tire core, not surface) look right in the zone, and this is my hypothesis: you may have cooked the surface layer of the tire which needs a lap of smooth driving to cool it.

After a spin if I keep pushing I'll spin again at a lower speed. Which is funny because the tire temps don't go up until the 3rd spin...

I have experienced all of these symptoms at race start. Now I concede a few positions and keep my car intact and by the end of lap 2 I've a net gain in positions.

Sum Dixon-Ear
18-01-2018, 00:05
15 laps in quali in 3-4 lap stints is still posing he same problem mate :p

At the grid you're on pressures and temps you haven't tuned for, which takes a few laps to settle.
There are also Aero effects at play, such as slip streaming and losing downforce, which has a big effect racing in traffic.
Psychological: race start adrenaline rush and pressure that make you jostle for position and avoid crashes... realise by now you're well on the cars limits with a few lock ups and aggressive slidey exits.
This makes the car a fraction slippery. Keep pushing and, even if the pressure and temps (tire core, not surface) look right in the zone, and this is my hypothesis: you may have cooked the surface layer of the tire which needs a lap of smooth driving to cool it.

After a spin if I keep pushing I'll spin again at a lower speed. Which is funny because the tire temps don't go up until the 3rd spin...

I have experienced all of these symptoms at race start. Now I concede a few positions and keep my car intact and by the end of lap 2 I've a net gain in positions.
15 laps in one stint... no pitting.

I tune for race, normally fine for a podium.

I understand aero effects and adjust my speed/throttle accordingly.

I've been sim racing online for 20 years now, calm as a millpond on a midsummers day bud.

It must be just useless.

hkraft300
18-01-2018, 04:18
I still get nervous at race start :o

The only explanation I have is the race start preset warm-up is throwing off your grip then it doesn't settle for you afterwards because you're trying to keep up the pace but the grip doesn't come back.

I have the same feeling after a spin.

Sum Dixon-Ear
18-01-2018, 09:27
I still get nervous at race start :o
.

OK... me too... sometimes... maybe a little!

John Hargreaves
18-01-2018, 10:24
It's relevant to this conversation because apparently I have little to no control over assists in general.

I use a mini usb keyboard on my PS4 with keys assigned to the assists. You can see on the speedo dial on the hud which assists are active, so a couple of clicks will bring them back on if they get turned off. I started using one of those laptop number pads, which is even neater if you only want to assign a few more buttons, but I missed having ctrl-k, so I now use a full keyboard. It really is a quick and easy solution.

pferreirag60
18-01-2018, 10:41
The problem, I think because the Ai it is not affected by track conditions, tire temperatures, brakes temp and of course they don´t use the same tire model as us, humans drivers. I feel your frustration, because i feel the same, but it is a compromise, so that you could feel this marvelous tire model. Maybe in some tracks/cars combination you should lower your Ai opponent level, because as Hraft300, have sad, in the first lap, you or I destroy the tires when trying just to be with the Ai at the begin. with some cars 120 Ai is fine, while others only 100 is safe at the start of the race.

Alfisti
18-01-2018, 13:51
This happens. Car behaves different from quali to race. I've experienced it

Why does it happen when quali and race conditions are same? Because during quali someone goes out and does 3-4 lap runs and back in the pits before the tires are fully warm. Race starts at a high pressure and, because of poor tuning and no long runs, the brake temperature and tire pressure starts to get way too high making the car lose grip.

User error, not a bug.

This is just not the case. I qualify with 5 laps onboard, races are 4 to 6 laps. It's not a small difference, the car spins on every corner.

I confirmed it last night, from qualy to race the assists don't work in some races unless you go in and turn them on again in that little two minute window before the race. I just need to figure out a pattern as to why it happens on some lobbies and others not.

Back on topic, with assists on i was able to race last night which was great. I am a bit slow as I find the car bits and then gets loose on me but at least i am beginning to brake at the right points and tussle. Finished 4th from 10 drivers which lifted my rating to F1300 from U so some progress.

Also discovered the McLaren GT1 around Bathurst, a handful but what a noise!

hkraft300
18-01-2018, 15:08
I don’t use assists so it doesn’t affect me if lobby host forces assists.

You can check on the race ready menu, or through ICM once the race starts to activate assists.

Don’t forget to sort your pit strategy on the ready screen too.

It’s one more thing for you to manage. Micro-management of every detail is key.

IsaacAsimov2670
18-01-2018, 15:18
Also discovered the McLaren GT1 around Bathurst, a handful but what a noise!

Ahhhhhhhh Bisto! The Long Tail.

Alfisti
19-01-2018, 17:52
I briefly jumped to a E1400 rating but hit a host (he came from NOWHERE in free practice on an oval and passed my on the inside as i was turning in) and he DQ'd me so back down to F1370.

Had an excellent GT4 race or two, winning one and finishing 4th of 12 in another, that's a really good formulae.

I am having real trouble in two areas that's costing me about 2 seconds per lap, maybe more tbh;

1) Long turns, if I loosen the car she is hard to control in tighter turns but right now I am understeering horribly

My bigger issue is ...

2) Hard to explain but on corner entry I am struggling. I brake, release the brake and she seems to bite a little and understeer forward. So i try braking, and sort of flicking the car through the corners (get her a little loose) but the car will either a) understeer in the direction of the turn or worse still b) sort of get loose then bite then get loose then bite real hard and i have to slow down too much to take the turn.

2 is hard to explain but in PC1 I had a very simple style that work with a controller. Late braking, have the bias set back a little so she just wags her tail a bit, lift the brake, coast through the turn, straighten the car and power out with a hard exit. It work well except that was a recipe for understeer on really long corners.

I cannot replicate that in this game, i get a weird bite, understeer, then loose then bite thing going.

But now the settings thing has been sorted (i check before every session) I can at least race.

John Hargreaves
19-01-2018, 18:16
Bear with me as i will try to give detail as to where I am struggling rather than just rant. My online tag is NevileNobody in case i have raced you before.

Played PC2 for the first time last night and I am all over the place, a best of 2.19 at Bathurst in the McLaren GT3. As a reference point, in PC1 I ran consistent 7's there, 47's at Monza and 57's at 'Ring GP. Not blindingly quick but quick enough to fight for online podiums at the right track.

Now for the detail .....

I use a controller, old school, no sticks or triggers, I use the X and square button and the pad. I know, i know ... but it is what it is, I just have no feel for the triggers, never have. My driving style in PC1 was brake late, turn whilst coasting, hard on the gas out. I tap the X button on high powered cars to account for traction issues. I used all assists except for braking. To do this i would run little to no decel lock so i could rotate the car.

Now last night, I couldn't do anything despite trying a multitude of controller settings found on this site. Nothing worked. I loaded the stable set up and reduced rear downforce a notch as my only change. I ran all assists except braking. I tried to be more pure and not use Steering Assist but was running 25's i was so slow.

So what's the car doing?

- When braking, it is locking up extremely easily, I have zero confidence. My marker into Murray's corner is where the signage changes to the right, I brake hard, the car is a little loose to help turn in then power it hard onto the front straight. Even braking well before this point I lock up and understeer off.

- If i get the braking "right", when I get off the gas i get severe snap oversteer, lift oversteer.

- On the gas, I am shredding three of the four tyres, only the front right remaining at the correct temps (front right, at Bathurst!!!! makes no sense!!) . The car power slides out of slow corners with understeer then snap oversteer.

- Mid corner is a fiasco, either understeer or wicked oversteer where i thump the inside walls relentlessly. The car feels so twitchy yet unresponsive at the same time. Through McPhillamy, my apex speed is 170kmh, down from 200kmh on PC1.

Not sure what else to add, not sure if this is car set up (doubt it) or controller (suspect it) or what but I am all at sea. Any help will be appreciated.

I guess it's fair to say you've been on quite a journey since your first post in this thread. I'm sure this thread has helped a lot of people in a similar situation.

Alfisti
19-01-2018, 18:24
Hope so yeah, in the end it was the assists turning off that threw me. You see i go "im lost" to "i think i am ok" to "wtf!!!!' to "oh it was better" until i realised i needed to check the assists every session.

Alfisti
23-01-2018, 13:25
OK so this is weird.

I join a lobby at the last second, all assists bar ABS off, RBR, GT3. I am driving the Z4. Remember i use all assists except braking assist) and spun wildly without them but for some reason I had a lot of grip. Other drivers ranged from A through D with 100+ skill level and I just WALKED away from them. I have no idea why the car felt so good, still a touch looser than i'd like but without the assists the understeer disappears too so I felt good.

How?

Anyway I ran 34's (not fast so must have been a slow lobby for some reason) but ran out of gas, splash and dash later i finish second.

Weird.

hkraft300
23-01-2018, 14:40
...
How?


Without more information, can't give you an answer.

Alfisti
25-01-2018, 14:35
OK I am gonna wrap up this thread, thanks to all those that helped. I have figured out many of my issues ....

1) The lower brake pressure and ABS really helped
2) Going so easy on the clutch decel lock as per PC1 (setting to 80 or 90) was a mistake
3) The bug where if you join a lobby without assists and it let's you qualify WITH assists really threw me off as I was so loose in the race because of 2) above
4) The "she bites then understeers then oversteers then bites then understeers" was stability control. I confirmed it last night, turning this off is a must, not sure how anyone drives with it as the car is so jerky in PC2 with it
5) As a result of 4) I run with LOW TC and HIGH ABS and no SC and seem to have found something I can work with

I am at the point where i can race but struggling with understeer in long fast corners really hurts me, I cannot loosen the car anymore or I will lose it too often but through the following corners i am REALLY struggling to a) hit the apex (just seems tougher in PC2 to get it right and b) carry speed ;

- Fast right hander at Road America after the carousel
- McPhillamy at Bathurst (apex speed of 170, was doing 200+ in PC1)
- Uphill S at 'Ring GP
- Blanchimont (apex speed down to 200, was 235 in PC1)

But anyway, thanks to everyone.

cpcdem
25-01-2018, 15:09
2) Going so easy on the clutch decel lock as per PC1 (setting to 80 or 90) was a mistake


Yes, for better stability (but less maneuverability) under braking you need to put the decel angle close to minimum (which is 25 I think), not to maximum. It's the exact opposite of what you need to do to the accel angle for stability. It's all described here:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52783-Magic-inside!-Need-Help-With-Differentials

hkraft300
25-01-2018, 22:35
... through the following corners i am REALLY struggling to a) hit the apex (just seems tougher in PC2 to get it right and b) carry speed ;

- Fast right hander at Road America after the carousel
- McPhillamy at Bathurst (apex speed of 170, was doing 200+ in PC1)
- Uphill S at 'Ring GP
- Blanchimont (apex speed down to 200, was 235 in PC1)

But anyway, thanks to everyone.

Stop
Comparing
Corner
Speeds
With
Project Cars 1.

Pc2 has updated physics.
The cars are different (differential, suspension and Aero at the minimum).
The tires are different.
The tracks are different (livetrack 3 + laser scanned).

If you're struggling to hit the apex: brake early/ slow more/ turn-in early.

Alfisti
26-01-2018, 00:31
Yeah I realise that but I see guys running say 2.07s at bathurst and I am doing 2.14s. It doesnt feel that slow tbh, but the clock is savage. Same at road America where tbh, I am pretty good at, o can race with the pack on the lobby but some guys are running 7 seconds faster than me and a good chunk is that fast link and following straight.

hkraft300
26-01-2018, 01:50
That time disparity is ~80% driving technique and racing line, ~20% setup. Most of the setup component is car preparation, for example having the tires, brake ducts in the zone.

Driving technique includes car control, how accurately you can place the car exactly where you need to. It's easier to do with a wheel. Very difficult to do it with on/off digital button presses - with the new tire model, you have maybe 1-2 laps fast before you scrub and cook the tires.