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Tom L
09-01-2018, 08:48
Hi,
Most sim-drivers I've seen so far seem to use the interior cockpit view. I'm having somewhat of a problem with the internal view (the width of the car) and I've been using the hood/bumber view so far as I find it easier.

What is your opinion of the internal view vs. the external vies (chase cam not included)? Is there any advantages using the cockpit view or are you using it for greater realism only?

Zenzic
09-01-2018, 08:50
Personally I use cockpit view because it feels more natural. And you have side mirrors at your disposal.

yossigab
09-01-2018, 08:56
I was driving in bumper view for years in all Gran Turismo games since there wasn't any cockpit view, or it was done very bad to my opinion (GT6).
However, in pcars2 (and Assetto) I've moved to Cockpit view, it took me a while to "understand" the environment and where the car is located, but as soon as I've got used to it there is no way back for me.
The sense of speed and immersion are better , and now I can better understand the car location much more than the bumper view (I tried it few times and it felt bad for me).
I can tell that my driving got improved due to this :)

drathuu
09-01-2018, 09:03
It also gives you a better feel for slip/slide as you get the visual queue of the car slip, and compensate evenly (external you tend to over compensate)... however the visual queue is more "obvious" externally..

Also as we race competatively, league.. we want to ensure consistency of effects - So (And although it doesnt work properly yet in this game) - force cockpit view.. (That way everyone is effected by rain/sunglare on windscreens (External views dont have to manage rain spray/splash on windscreens, so having people with different views doesnt create an even state of play.

I used to (When younger) do outside views.. but i struggle with it now, as my depth perception is all wrong.. However it does take time to get used to..

V3nom
09-01-2018, 09:08
If you don't have the correct field of view then the cockpit camera is going to be garbage.
I had no idea what fov does or that it even existed and the cockpit camera just felt wrong with a bad visibility. So I was using the roof cam which was perfect for me.
One day I read things about fov and I thought I would give it a try setting the cockpit camera correctly.
After setting it up correctly(based on screen size and distance to eyes) it all felt much better. It took me about 30-60 minutes to get used to the new fov but after that I got faster than with any other cam I tried before.
Plus it is much more immersive than any other cam. Also you should know that you can change the seat position in every car. In a couple of cars it is really necessary.

Keena
09-01-2018, 09:19
Just to add my agreement to what people are saying here. Allied to noise like tyre squeal, cockpit view really does provide a lot of information when field of view etc is set properly. Because I'm looking through the steering wheel, dash, windscreen then bonnet when referencing direction of travel, any rotation is easily apparent in the changing relationship of those things. Plus it's immersive and I quite like looking at how SMS have modelled the interiors.

MrA2theK
09-01-2018, 09:24
It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned, it just feels right.

UkHardcore23
09-01-2018, 10:21
Yeah cockpit feels more natural, Only game i feel has ever done an amazing job on the bumper cam view is GT! For some reason it feels right on that game while PCARS, AC or Forza not so much, Dont know why that is.

BigDad
09-01-2018, 10:27
Immersion and realism even on a TV but more so in VR .

hkraft300
09-01-2018, 10:40
Fov is important for cockpit. You want to run something close to correct fov, for sense of speed, depth perception, positioning etc. I compromise mine for more visibility, so I'm 10-15° above accurate.

If you can't get your screen close enough to your face/ adjust cockpit cam/seat position, dash cam might be the better option. It's weird with dash cam always being central though. I wonder why it's never offset to the driver side... I digress.

You want what's a natural perspective. It's hard to walk around when your perspective is warped (a heavy dose of mushrooms).

The other thing I like about cockpit view is the dash - I like the info on the motec screen.

beatrunner
09-01-2018, 11:51
i'm using helmetview with TrackIR on tripple screens (3 x 26" or soemthing like that).
i couldn't drive any thing like competitive / fast in any other camera. because it's the only camera view giving me (almost like VR) the possibility "to view into corners" as i'd do in real life. it's for me also the only camera to really "feel" my car.

but the most important thing is: why would i want to see my car while driving - it's the track i need to focus on. helmet cam forces me to look where a real driver looks - far ahead. and it doesnt give me "that fake advantage of beeing able to see more then from inside the car". everything a racedriver needs to see can be seen from the cockpit. everything else is just "distraction from the job" IMO. it's insane how my laptimes started to improve once i learned "to look at the right directions" on tracks. corners that seemed very narrow became pretty wide suddenly and so on...

so with my setup i drive with the lowest possible FOV and so my 3 screens become the windscreen of the car and gives me "that feeling of beeing there"...

and for everybody that tries the cockpit view with standard FOV should adjsut some keys to +/- FOV and see how it feels.

Charger
09-01-2018, 13:16
I have also found that FFB changes from bonnet to cockpit, it's subtle but it's definitely different, it's slacker in bonnet cam than in cockpit.

Gregz0r
09-01-2018, 13:43
Cockpit on a flat screen for immersion.
Roof(T-cam) would be optimum, though.
Cockpit in VR is a no-brainier.

iggy
09-01-2018, 15:04
I run cockpit view on cars with open cockpits ( usually on open wheel cars ), and I do like being able to see the steering wheel, and you get a better sense of the attitude of the car itself... However, in regular cars with enclosed cockpit, I have yet to get the hang of it... Perhaps because I haven't tweaked the FOV to my liking... or , maybe because as I understand it, multiple monitors are what are really needed to get a wide enough view of things.

right now, I'm still using bumper cam much of the time.

bazzalaar
09-01-2018, 16:08
Nope! Cockpit view has zero advantage. I don't like it at all. Doesn't quite give a good enough sense for peripheral vision, or field of view, so you can't see enough the track. I play on a 50" tv but most of that is consumed by the car interior. I could see the benefit if you use VR or have a 3 screen setup... but for me I prefer bonnet or roof cam.

AbeWoz
09-01-2018, 16:10
i like to race as close to real as possible, so i always run cockpit view. IMO people who use bonnet or roof cam have an advantage since they can see more of the track and can see apexes better and whatnot.

V3nom
09-01-2018, 16:12
You guys need to mess with fov for the cockpit camera. I couldn't use this cam before changing the fov, now I can not not use it :)

kevin kirk
09-01-2018, 16:22
If you don't have the correct field of view then the cockpit camera is going to be garbage.
I had no idea what fov does or that it even existed and the cockpit camera just felt wrong with a bad visibility. So I was using the roof cam which was perfect for me.
One day I read things about fov and I thought I would give it a try setting the cockpit camera correctly.
After setting it up correctly(based on screen size and distance to eyes) it all felt much better. It took me about 30-60 minutes to get used to the new fov but after that I got faster than with any other cam I tried before.
Plus it is much more immersive than any other cam. Also you should know that you can change the seat position in every car. In a couple of cars it is really necessary.
...... Correct or not, that has me playing on the setting of 35 and that is just impossable to play because the seat will only go so far back before I start to see my own driving suit. i cant translate the real size of things in the world into looking out a window of my tv. Allthough i do play with as close as i can get to that. As long as its in a reasonable lower range FOV number,and if you play enough, you can get use to and do just as good in any reasonable number.

Herege
09-01-2018, 18:20
95%+- I use bumper view. I only use cockpit view on open wheels basically. In cockpit view I feel claustrophobic :rolleyes:

I wish that on bumper view we can slightly adjust height. Are there any workaround to do this on bumper view?

JasperBowels
09-01-2018, 18:38
Remember folks once and forever!!!

Triple screen setup not far from your face = cockpit view (with correct fov)
large or medium single display = hood cam
small display = roof cam

hood cam and roof cam fov depend on size of screen/distance from the eyes (70'-90')

bumper cam and chase cam are useless in terms of better laps

Please, please, please...
DO NOT use cockpit view on small or medium screen or large screen far away from your eyes - This is NOT cool and immersive and you just harm yourself by greatly reduce your vision compare to real life.

JasperBowels
09-01-2018, 18:40
95%+- I use bumper view. I only use cockpit view on open wheels basically. In cockpit view I feel claustrophobic :rolleyes:

I wish that on bumper view we can slightly adjust height. Are there any workaround to do this on bumper view?

Ctrl+K and press "W"

setting will not save when you reset game

Herege
09-01-2018, 18:44
I give it a try, thank you very much!

Tom L
09-01-2018, 19:08
Thank's for some great input everyone. So far I've mostly been driving the F Rookie and the Radical. Cockpit view in the FR and hood-cam (in between the wheelhouses). I thought that I was hitting the apexes (is that a word?) with the FX but that was before I took the advice and fooled around with the FOV settings. Turned out that I wasn't :)

Did a high 1.36 around Long Beach but still struggling to be consistent. Driving line gone on Long Beach, next task is to get fast with manual gears.

John Hargreaves
09-01-2018, 21:29
To me it makes a big difference whether I'm playing with a wheel or controller. With a wheel I use cockpit view pushed forward so it's almost a dash cam sort of view, I find the double steering wheel look ridiculous. On PS4 with the controller, I'm much more inclined to use the chase cam, as it gives a bit more peripheral vision and you can get a sense of the balance of the car that is lost by not having the wheel.
I can drive controller with cockpit cam, but chase cam with a wheel is really weird for me.

Fanapryde
09-01-2018, 22:41
I find the double steering wheel look ridiculous
You can disable the virtual wheel/driver...

peterCars
10-01-2018, 00:16
I give it a try, thank you very much!

seeing I am thee are using a PC, adjustments are around the w,e,r,t,a,s,d,f,g keys. I think they are configurable in controller assignment settings.
the advantage is not seeing all the damage I cause on the track, only some of it.
the disadvantage is the game does not show the rear wheels (open wheeler) in the side mirrors.
I would also like to be able to adjust those mirrors, rather than having to adjust my positions, to see the track behind me.

Azure Flare
10-01-2018, 01:55
I use cockpit view because IRL I don't drive on the roof, hood, front bumper, or several feet behind the car.

FastForward352
10-01-2018, 05:44
Same for me, I can't imagine playing in another view than cockpit, I've always been playing in cockpit view, on flat screens and now in VR, for realism.

V3nom
10-01-2018, 05:53
But to be fair there are a couple of cars that have unbelievably bad view from the cockpit for example the mustang Cobra and the Nissan imsa from the GTO class.
Only in these cars I use the roof cam..

pkcraistlin
10-01-2018, 06:19
ever since the olden days i've never been able to play behind the car (pitstop II doesn't count) but have flirted with bonnet cam on occasion, for visability reasons in cockpits with a lid. also sometimes played older open-wheel games from TV Cam (F1 and indy/champ mostly), as i liked how it matched the viewpoint from television.

with pcars2 though, i've done almost nothing except cockpit. either it's my bigger tv, or i've just gotten used to half the screen being taken up by the car. still, it's fun to go full-screen, no car, first-person-racer occasionally for something different.

the "advantage" from my POV (ha) is that you get a better feel by playing from inside the car.

Boneboys
10-01-2018, 06:28
Same for me, I can't imagine playing in another view than cockpit, I've always been playing in cockpit view, on flat screens and now in VR, for realism.

Same here, unfortunately when I restrict the view in a MP server it empties after the first race.
A lot of "drivers" want to take advantage of the greater view aspect offered by exterior cams.
Remove the race line and lock to interior view and it is near impossible to fill a server.

I have found that turning off the rating system helps to some degree, which shows that people are more concerned by their e-rank than having a better or more realistic sim experience.
Shame really, I am however grateful that the option is there in the MP settings.

VRoom...

Dealman
10-01-2018, 07:09
I think they all have their own advantages and disadvantages, but in the end it comes down to personal preference.

Helmet Cam - Immersive, looks cool. The looking towards APEX can be useful if you like it - I find it a bit distracting. Helmet clips through car in Group B cars. :( Don't like the muffled sound on some cars.

Cockpit View - Immersive, most natural view. Get to see all the nicely detailed interior and gauges. Can use side-mirrors to avoid collisions.

Bumper View - Personally not a fan, too close to the ground and makes it hard to see the road ahead of you. Kind of gives you tunnel vision.

Hood/Roof View - Alright, sort of like cockpit view if you don't like the interior. Has the benefit of not having interior detail block your peripheral vision. May help you hit apexes properly and avoid shortcut penalties.

Chase Cam - The least immersive view IMO, but it's great at spatial awareness - you'll see cars coming in from behind and the sides - making up for the lack of ability to easily look around to keep an eye on your surroundings like you can in VR. A lot of good drivers use this just to avoid collisions. It also has the benefit of being "high up" letting you see the track far ahead of you giving you plenty of time to plan your actions accordingly.

That said, a lot of people say they are fastest with cockpit view. I don't doubt it, it helps me with smoother driving. But I feel like I get better lap times using chase cam, and helps me with clean driving. That said I mostly drive with cockpit view myself. All 'bout dat immersion.

kevin kirk
10-01-2018, 16:54
But to be fair there are a couple of cars that have unbelievably bad view from the cockpit for example the mustang Cobra and the Nissan imsa from the GTO class.
Only in these cars I use the roof cam..

those are are just terrible to drive in cockpit aren't they?

kevin kirk
10-01-2018, 16:57
alot of cars like the lmps i use sort of a dash cam so i can have a nice big picture of the track and cars. Zoomed in just past the steering wheel.

Olijke Poffer
10-01-2018, 16:58
But to be fair there are a couple of cars that have unbelievably bad view from the cockpit for example the mustang Cobra and the Nissan imsa from the GTO class.
Only in these cars I use the roof cam..
In VR I see no problem with theae cars.. ;)

Schnizz58
10-01-2018, 17:07
I use cockpit view because IRL I don't drive on the roof, hood, front bumper, or several feet behind the car.

https://i.imgur.com/rPNCqww.jpg

Olijke Poffer
10-01-2018, 19:24
I use cockpit view because IRL I don't drive on the roof, hood, front bumper, or several feet behind the car.

:cool:

https://media.giphy.com/media/NipFetnQOuKhW/giphy.gif

hkraft300
11-01-2018, 01:32
In VR I see no problem with theae cars.. ;)

Sorry Mr VR Master Race :p

Herege
11-01-2018, 01:44
For realism I use a wheel too :rolleyes:

davidt33
11-01-2018, 02:01
And here I was, thinking most used bumper or hood view.

hkraft300
11-01-2018, 02:31
And here I was, thinking most used bumper or hood view.

I would do the bonnet/dash cam if it was offset to the driver side. Then I'd use a tablet with a dash app.
Considering my face-to-screen distance, it'd be a much more accurate pov.

Purg
11-01-2018, 02:31
But to be fair there are a couple of cars that have unbelievably bad view from the cockpit... Nissan imsa from the GTO class.

Shocking, innit? I find it extremely difficult to drive, couldn't imagine what it would be like in real life..

I use cockpit cam because I'm familiar with it as a reference point - even moreso in VR.

In a casual racer like Forza Horizon or other open world driving games, 95% of the time is 3rd person. Can be difficult actually seeing where you're going a lot of the times if you're in cockpit view.

Atak Kat
11-01-2018, 04:04
I'm transitioning from bonnet view to cockpit view. Its an inner battle but cockpit view is winning.

I do like the clear view bonnet cam gives, I used to avoid the cockpit cam because it seemed bizarre to me to play a game on a big TV and have this small sliver of action on the screen (I mean the view out the car window, where everything around is covering 75% of the screen with just the car interior and darkly coloured and not really changing)
But recently I ended up in an online race that forced interior view. Stuck it out, and after that it changed my mind. I really did find the perspective somehow translated to better lap times (not much, but better), and the game/race seemed more realistic and exciting. I found that I was more cautious, as if driving a real car, and I was not treating it so much like a game (if that makes sense). And honestly the SOUND in cockpit view is really impressive with headphones.... love it, and it's definitely part of the immersion factor in that view (at least for me).

I'm still struggling to find the correct FOV for my preference. And seat position. It is mostly annoying to me that in several cars the left window pillar blocks my view of the apex/curb coming into left turns. I can't quite find the right trade-offs of all the settings. I do like the possibility of having the side mirror, but it is annoying to me that you have to put your FOV so wide, or move your seat so far back, in order to see even the left mirror. What I wish, is that they would have a left/right mirror window just like they have the rearview window at the top of the screen. That would be really neat, and I think would help a lot when online racing and trying to avoid the cars sneaking up on you...

Unrelated, but I really wish you could choose the sound profile separately from the view. Maybe like the tire choices.... a setting for automatic, and then the ability to override if, if you want.

Gav88888
11-01-2018, 08:47
I started playing PC1 using the behind the car view, but changed to helmet view not long after. With PC2 I have just stuck with helmet view. My thoughts are its more realistic and immersive. I don't have VR so I use look to apex and g force etc to make it look more realistic when driving. It can make it a little harder to hit apexes at first but you learn the turn in points with the various cars after a while, but its easier if you turn off look to apex. The problem though, with the distance from the TV I have to set the FOV at 70 which means no mirrors unless I move the seat back, but then it looks like I'm driving a people carrier with the dash so far away from my wheel...

Its all a series of compromises unless you have VR, but I love racing in the car as on the bonnet or behind is just weird now. Always reminds me of playing Forza as that is how I used to play that, and with a controller.

deluca_pabloj
11-01-2018, 15:30
I think the advantage is the immersion. Using a wheel, with the helmet view, with correct FOV, correct seat position (realistic, not very forward because a low FOV feels like a zoom is applied), virtual wheel disabled, Jack Spade FFB, you get the most realistic sensation. Helmet cam adds head movements and vibration (using the g-force and camera movement values). If you disable look to the apex, the speed blur effect and reduce g-force and camera movements above 30%) you get a cockpit view with vibration.
Iīm not sure if using any of the inside views and correct FOV makes you get better lap times. Itīs full of YouTube channels recording very fast lap times with high FOV and virtual wheel. A correct FOV value, smaller value in my setup, makes a difference in track width and the speed of things passing through car windows. The width of the track, wide and detailed with a lower FOV, makes you realize the real race line you are using for each corner and getting better brake points because of the detail of things around the track. With a high FOV, the track becomes thin, race lines are less and things pass through car windows at higher speed, making brake points less precise. With a lower FOV, you should have a three monitor setup, I only have one 40” TV and 51FOV, in some cars, I have to put HUD mirror in the real mirror position, but unfortunately PC2 does not support to move HUD elements outside the screen so you can see a part of the mirror, you must see all hud mirror, so I found the most realistic mirror position in the carīs central panel (as some GT3 cars come with). With this FOV I canīt see car instruments either, I use a 7” tablet in front of the TV screen with SIM Dashboard app and Nascar HUD template.
Using cockpit view, you can get fastest and consistent laps, but the immersion is a bit lower without the vibration you feel in helmet view. Please let me know if Iīm wrong or you just disagree, just to give other settings a try.

Rodders
11-01-2018, 17:04
I raced bonnet cam in PCars1 but now race cockpit. It all came down to where I had my monitor positioned. When I had my monitor a distance from my actual wheel, it seemed odd to have the screen in cockpit which was so far from my wheel and bonnet cam actually felt more realistic and hence immersive. When someone suggested I move my monitor directly behind my wheel, suddenly cockpit made sense and I switched. Never looked back.

The key for me was to have it so my real wheel appeared like it was in the cockpit and even running on a single 24” 1080p monitor it worked great.

In regards to FoV, I don’t buy the “it must be a realistic FoV crowd. The fact is your brain is extremely good as adapting to whatever view you throw at it and it’s more important to pick a FoV and never change it. I used to use a fairly large FoV on my single 1080p screen so I got a better sense of speed and could see more in my peripheral. It worked great.

When I changed to VR I was thrust into a real FoV and it took a few weeks to re-learn corner profiles and my instinctual braking points. It was really hard at first as my brain needed time to re-adjust. It did and I’m racing as well as I used to again on my previous FoV. At that point I had to adjust my FoV for racing games not VR compatible as switching between a large FoV on monitor and real one in VR just didn’t work. It’s the changing FoV that is the problem, not the fact it’s too large or small compared to reality.

Many seem so convinced that to race well you must utterly have a proper FoV which reflects real life but that’s utter tosh. A consistent FoV you get used to and build instincts within is what’s important (not including ludicrous extremes at either side).

Jezza819
11-01-2018, 17:18
I've always used cockpit view in games where it was available. It just seems more realistic. I haven't bothered going in and calculating the proper FOV. Whatever mine is set on now seems fine like it is.

deluca_pabloj
11-01-2018, 17:22
but donīt you think the track is too thin with a high FOV? Look at the pianoīs width, you cannot be precise and put your carīs tire on it, it seems the tire does not fit in that thin line supposed to be a piano or a track limit.

SaxonRaider
11-01-2018, 17:24
Helmet cam for me. Without a helmet your breaking the rules.

deluca_pabloj
11-01-2018, 17:26
and how do you set up world movement, g-force, look to apex, camera movements?

Atak Kat
11-01-2018, 17:34
I raced bonnet cam in PCars1 but now race cockpit. It all came down to where I had my monitor positioned. When I had my monitor a distance from my actual wheel, it seemed odd to have the screen in cockpit which was so far from my wheel and bonnet cam actually felt more realistic and hence immersive. When someone suggested I move my monitor directly behind my wheel, suddenly cockpit made sense and I switched. Never looked back.

I think this is my issue.... bu i don't really have a way to put my tv closer..... need to research tv/monitor stands

Rodders
11-01-2018, 18:23
but donīt you think the track is too thin with a high FOV? Look at the pianoīs width, you cannot be precise and put your carīs tire on it, it seems the tire does not fit in that thin line supposed to be a piano or a track limit.

It's thinner but well within what my brain can understand and deal with.

Rodders
11-01-2018, 18:25
and how do you set up world movement, g-force, look to apex, camera movements?

Totally personal preference. I like world movement 100 so that the car never moves on the screen and the world does instead. Some like the opposite. I put g-force and look to apex at zero.

deluca_pabloj
11-01-2018, 18:33
Yes, I agree. I use World movement 100, look to apex 0, g-force 30 camera mov 30,30. I like a little movement in the camera just to accompany the movement of FFB.

Zaskarspants
11-01-2018, 18:40
Totally personal preference. I like world movement 100 so that the car never moves on the screen and the world does instead. Some like the opposite. I put g-force and look to apex at zero.

I agree, I am one of those who likes WM 0, whatever works for the individual. I keep the rest of the movement effects at zero as the unseasoned movement provides ample feedback for me.

Plato99
12-01-2018, 15:35
Helmet camera for me. I love the "lean" and the "look to apex". its always a bane in motorcycle games but seems to work really well in PC2. I love the more muffled sounds too.

J4yR3yn0ld5
13-01-2018, 03:11
For me it's all about the immersion and feel of the car that you just don't get with other views.

yannara
13-01-2018, 11:33
Always using cockpit view, everywhere! PC2 has a great options, because you can adjust your seat, so you can skip anything useless from the view by pushing seat forward and up. Also, I always disable physical wheel. Unfortunately, only few PC games has these options.